Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, February 20 2002 Volume 01 :
Number
759
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:52:29 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
paint q
To properly recolor a car plan on spending 5 to 7
thousand.
Jim
berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: paint q
> I'm
considering having my green vr4 re-painted to
> either red or black. I've
heard horror stories of ppl
> getting something like that done, and then
having the
> new paint peel off after a while.
>
> Any
recommendations on places to get that done w/o
> having it peel?
>
> also, what's a good price range?
>
> BTW, can a carbon
fiber hood be painted, or does it
> have to stay that checkered
color?
>
> Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:05:27
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: paint q
>From what I heard most people with a CF hood on their
wish list never
got them or waited two years for them. Show off and
keep it unpainted.
Wave it under the nose of other 3/S guys who never got
them.
I think it can be painted but I've only seen this once (a black one
at
Ocean City last year) and it looked stock and couldn't tell it was
CF.
Part of the fun though is showing that it is so it remains
unpainted.
Might be a personal thing. I'm sure a paint shop can
paint metal,
plastic, rubber, carbon fiber, etc. and just needs to know what
it is
first.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
apedenko@attbi.comSent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 23:41
I'm considering having my green vr4
re-painted to
either red or black. I've heard horror stories of ppl
getting something like that done, and then having the
new paint peel off
after a while.
Any recommendations on places to get that done w/o
having it peel?
also, what's a good price range?
BTW, can a
carbon fiber hood be painted, or does it
have to stay that checkered
color?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:12:00
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
paint q
You're insane if you're spending 5-7k. My girlfriend's
uncle does that work
for a living. He charges 1500-2000 for the labor
and about 1000 for
materials unless you're doing something outlandish.
This is retail and not
the "family" discount. I wish I had pictures of
his work. It's really show
car class work. I'd say expect around
$3500 for a job done by a truly
skilled artist. Not the local hacks
down at Maaco ;)
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo (currently
DOA)
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of fastmax
Sent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 11:52 PM
To:
apedenko@attbi.com;
team3s@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
paint q
To properly recolor a car plan on spending 5 to 7
thousand.
Jim
berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: paint q
> I'm
considering having my green vr4 re-painted to
> either red or black. I've
heard horror stories of ppl
> getting something like that done, and then
having the
> new paint peel off after a while.
>
> Any
recommendations on places to get that done w/o
> having it
peel?
>
> also, what's a good price range?
>
> BTW, can
a carbon fiber hood be painted, or does it
> have to stay that checkered
color?
>
> Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:23:38
+0000
From:
apedenko@attbi.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
paint q
whew! i almost had a heart attack there - i was
thinking ~2k
and then saw 5-7!
Thanks for both quotes though...
Any idea why
such a price diff?
Alex.
> You're insane if you're spending
5-7k. My girlfriend's uncle does that work
> for a living. He
charges 1500-2000 for the labor and about 1000 for
> materials unless
you're doing something outlandish. This is retail and not
> the
"family" discount. I wish I had pictures of his work. It's really
show
> car class work. I'd say expect around $3500 for a job done by
a truly
> skilled artist. Not the local hacks down at Maaco
;)
>
> Jeff V.
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo (currently
DOA)
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of fastmax
> Sent:
Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:52 PM
> To:
apedenko@attbi.com;
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: paint q
>
> To properly recolor a car plan on
spending 5 to 7 thousand.
>
> Jim berry
>
==========================================
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
> To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
> Sent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 8:40 PM
> Subject: Team3S: paint q
>
> >
I'm considering having my green vr4 re-painted to
> > either red or
black. I've heard horror stories of ppl
> > getting something like that
done, and then having the
> > new paint peel off after a while.
>
>
> > Any recommendations on places to get that done w/o
>
> having it peel?
> >
> > also, what's a good price
range?
> >
> > BTW, can a carbon fiber hood be painted, or
does it
> > have to stay that checkered color?
> >
>
> Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:38:51
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
paint q
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
> You're insane if
you're spending 5-7k. My girlfriend's uncle does that work
> for a
living. He charges 1500-2000 for the labor and about 1000 for
>
materials unless you're doing something outlandish. This is retail and
not
> the "family" discount. I wish I had pictures of his
work. It's really show
> car class work. I'd say expect around
$3500 for a job done by a truly
> skilled artist. Not the local
hacks down at Maaco ;)
Does he do the engine compartment and remove the
fenders, bumper covers,
side trim, lights, glass and part of the interior for
that $1500 --- I kind of doubt it.
A premium job requires that the car is
almost stripped before prep and painting.
If you're not changing color it's
a lot eaiser. To do the rear quarter panel on my
car they want to remove the
bumper cover, side glass, the taillights and the roof
trim in order to paint
it properly.
I have no doubt you can get it done cheaper and the area
you're having it done
is probably a big factor --- In Southern California if
you have the color changed
I'll bet you a nickle you're looking at 5 large
and if you do fancy metallics with a
metallic/color/clear you're looking at
7.
Jim berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:46:24
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: paint q
Uhhh,
You can get it done for less than
that... who charges $1000 for
paint... You can buy almost any
normal paint for less than $500 for
everything needed, unless you go with the
exotic stuff... Hell, you can
get a good urethane paint that looks
extremely nice for under $200 for
materials... Yes, it's the cheap way
to go, but it can be done, and it
can last, and it can be done properly this
way...
Labor... that will vary from place to place and depends on how
detailed
you want everything... Seriously though, I had three places
quote me
$1500 including paint to change the color of my car and I finally
went
with a shop offering me a 2 year warranty against cracking/peeling,
and
a 4 year warranty against paint fading (2 years 100%, 2 years
pro-rated)
Don't discount your local Maaco also... I have seen some
very very nice
paint jobs come out of there... You just have to find
one that has
experienced painters that ~want~ to do the job right...
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of
apedenko@attbi.comSent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 11:24 PM
To: Jeff VanOrsdal
Cc:
team3s@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
paint q
whew! i almost had a heart attack there - i was
thinking ~2k
and then saw 5-7!
Thanks for both quotes though...
Any idea why
such a price diff?
Alex.
> You're insane if you're spending
5-7k. My girlfriend's uncle does
that work
> for a living.
He charges 1500-2000 for the labor and about 1000 for
> materials unless
you're doing something outlandish. This is retail
and not
> the
"family" discount. I wish I had pictures of his work. It's
really
show
> car class work. I'd say expect around $3500 for a job done by
a truly
> skilled artist. Not the local hacks down at Maaco
;)
>
> Jeff V.
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo (currently
DOA)
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On
Behalf
> Of fastmax
> Sent:
Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:52 PM
> To:
apedenko@attbi.com;
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: paint q
>
>
> To properly recolor a car plan
on spending 5 to 7 thousand.
>
> Jim berry
>
==========================================
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
> To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
> Sent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 8:40 PM
> Subject: Team3S: paint q
>
>
> > I'm considering having my green vr4 re-painted to
> >
either red or black. I've heard horror stories of ppl
> > getting
something like that done, and then having the
> > new paint peel off
after a while.
> >
> > Any recommendations on places to get
that done w/o
> > having it peel?
> >
> > also,
what's a good price range?
> >
> > BTW, can a carbon fiber
hood be painted, or does it
> > have to stay that checkered
color?
> >
> > Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:51:23
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: paint q
My car looked like someone washed it with steel wool
several times.
Then over the years it was waxed. So now I think I have
wax over
scratches over wax over scratches. Do paint shops also
specialize in
getting down to near the base coat or can they put a thick
enough coat
of paint then wax that will cover up the scratches
underneath?
And not like a key scratch but just real fine
scratches. I have been
able to take out some (say there are 100 per
square inch) and I can take
out 20 with some 3M or Mother's scratch
remover. But that is just the
first surface. If I take off some
wax (step one in some multi-step wax
processes) I can get another 20
scratches. Is it safe for a paint shop
to get this far down in the
layers or are you starting to mess with it
being easier to cover all that
up?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:36:28
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
I've only put about 3,000
miles on the POS, and it is already squeaking!! I
bought it from the
dealership myself too, so I know it is new!! WTF
but the weird thing
about it is that in order for me to get the noise to go
away, I only have to
push the clutch in to the point where all the free play
is gone
When I
had a throwout bearing go out on me before, I had to push the clutch
to the
floor to get it to go away. Also, this noise is more of a constant
squeaking
... when before it was a "rougher" sounding noise; I don't even
remember
exactly what it sounded like, but I know it is different sounding
than what
is going on now
Could it be anything else?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:39:04
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Big red parts
What model Porshe do the big reds come off of. I
cant find the right size
crush washer at any auto parts store, and i need to
get some from the dealer.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:08:05
-0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
I recently received my
upgraded fuel system which consists of:
1. Supra fuel pump (Toyota
23221-46110)
2. RC 550cc injectors
3. Apexi SAFC
I was wondering
what the max boost I should run SAFELY once I get them
installed? I
still have stock turbos (for now) and a WI/AI kit coming in a
couple
months. I currently run 15psi.
Opinions?
Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:11:12
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
Dave I wouldn't
run more than 16 psi, and if you have a way to monitor knock
watch it
closely.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Black, Dave
(ICT) [SMTP:dblai@allstate.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:08
AM
> To:
'stealth@starnet.net';
'JRC_VR4Stealth@hotmail.com';
Team3s (E-mail)
> Subject: Team3S: Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock
turbos?
>
> I recently received my upgraded fuel system which
consists of:
>
> 1. Supra fuel pump (Toyota 23221-46110)
> 2.
RC 550cc injectors
> 3. Apexi SAFC
>
> I was wondering what
the max boost I should run SAFELY once I get them
> installed? I
still have stock turbos (for now) and a WI/AI kit coming in
> a
>
couple months. I currently run 15psi.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Dave 95VR4
>
http://www.daveblack.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:14:18
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
> I was
wondering what the max boost I should run SAFELY once I get them
If
savely is in capitals then 15 psi.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:25:48
-0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Engine Noise
Doublecheck the little black box on the driver's side in the
engine bay
(close to the strut). The cruise control cable box is
there. When the
dealer did the 60K service on the 93 Stealth Base, they
forgot to add a
screw on the black cap. As a result, I would hear what
would sound like
piston slap at idle and more and more as the engine was
reved up (up to
a point, due to drowning in normal engine noise).
-
-MIKE-
95 Red VR4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:55:03 -0800
From:
ChaosCat <
chaoscat@plazma.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Engine Noise
We already looked at that-the cover was fine. (we
took it off and looked
at it)
it kinda goes with the engine as it revs
and either gets drowned out or
quits at higher rpms-its heard the most when
idliing.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:37:59
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo timer install help.
Thanks everyone for the help on the
turbo timer. Looks
like a good time to change my shift boot also.
Starting
today to install my new turbos that came in
the mail yesterday. So far it has
been a very hard job
geting the bolts lose on the down pipes. I'm going
to
take out the rear turbo now, the front is out already.
New turbos are
the first stage up grade 13g. I wonder
if I will need a new fuel pump,
wouldn't think so.
Anyone know of a shop in Seattle that works on 3s
cars
that has people that don't charge twice what a repair
is worth, so
far I haven't had much luck.
Peter
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:48:17
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo timer install help.
Pete, have tried getting in touch
with HorsePower Freaks? I believe their
web site is
horsepowerfreaks.com One of the owners has/had a MKIV
and
was very knowledgeable and detail oriented on any work he did for
customers.
Might be worth a shot.....
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: menalteed [SMTP:menalteed@yahoo.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:38 AM
> To: Roger Gerl
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo timer install help.
>
> Thanks everyone
for the help on the turbo timer. Looks
> like a good time to change my
shift boot also.
> Starting today to install my new turbos that came
in
> the mail yesterday. So far it has been a very hard job
> geting
the bolts lose on the down pipes. I'm going to
> take out the rear turbo
now, the front is out already.
> New turbos are the first stage up grade
13g. I wonder
> if I will need a new fuel pump, wouldn't think so.
>
Anyone know of a shop in Seattle that works on 3s cars
> that has people
that don't charge twice what a repair
> is worth, so far I haven't had
much luck.
>
> Peter
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:53:23
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
We had a long thread on how AWS
works last year. Ours is "in-phase" AWS. A
"hook and ladder" fire
truck has "out-of-phase" rear wheel steering, which
turns the rear wheels
opposite from the front bringing the rear around. I
think somebody said
early versions of the Nissan 300ZX had "out-of'phase"
AWS, with mixed reviews
- they dropped it on later versions. Sliding by the
rear wheels is
cause by the rear wheels being pointed in a direction
different from the
direction of travel of the car, mostly determined by
where the front wheels
are pointing. The difference in the direction of
travel and where the
wheel is pointed is called the slip angle. Lateral
grip of the tire
actually increases with slip angle up to a point, then it
falls off at the
limit of adhesion. Turning the rear wheels a little bit in
the
direction of the front wheels RELIEVES some of the slip angle, and keeps
the
rear tires gripping. The wheels need to be rolling for this to work, and
the
car needs to be driving, not already spinning.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
apedenko@attbi.com
[SMTP:apedenko@attbi.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:36
PM
> To:
echeek@cox-internet.com> Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
>
> I'm confused - how is turning
the rear wheels in the
> same direction as the front wheels going to make
it
> turn faster? doesn't that mean that the relative angle
> of
the front and rear wheels going to decrease?
> Wouldn't that have more of
a sliding effect than a
> turning effect?
>
>
Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:54:31
-0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Big red parts
Big Reds are off the 911 twin turbo model 993 or
996.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
[mailto:whietala@prodigy.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:39
AM
To:
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Big red parts
What model Porshe do the big reds come off of. I
cant find the right size
crush washer at any auto parts store, and i need to
get some from the
dealer.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:14:20
-0600
From:
Pete.Laing@hurlburt.af.milSubject:
Team3S: Turbo upgrade
This is my first time posting and I was wondering
if anyone can answer this?
I have a 91 Stealth ES, and I was wondering if you
can swap out the engines
with a tt without having to change to awd, or if
there are any types of
superchargers or anything such as that to upgrade the
engine? Any
suggestions will be helpful and appreciated. Also if anyone knows
of a good
shop in the North Florida area (Fort Walton Beach), I'm looking for
one.
Once again Thanks for the help.
Pete L.
91 Stealth
ES
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:29:56
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
And have you had
knock or timing retarded during the runs ? Were the runs
healthy or not ? If
you don't know then safe is running still not more than
15 psi. Looking at
the power curve from 2k to 6k you should be able to see
if the timign got
retarded. Only power and peak psi doesn't say anything
at
all.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec,.ch> The shop that did
install are experts and do many many of our cars. They
> dyno'd me 3 times
and I have boost set to 15.9 PSI. I have a limit set,
> etc.. and rarely
exceed 16 PSI.
>
> Thus far the car runs perfect. I have never felt
or experienced any
> problems, yet i constantly hear of people in this
group saying not to
exceed
> 15 psi.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:50:50
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Interpreting Dyno Graphs WAS: Max boost with upgraded
fuel/stoc k turbos?
> Looking at the power curve from 2k to 6k
>
you should be able to see if the timign
> got retarded.
Ok, so
looking at the torque/hp curves, what will you see when knock occurs
and/or
the ECM backs off the timing?
Anyone have any pointers to online
resources that have info on dyno graph
interpretation? I have some
general notions of what to expect based on my
knowledge of engines, physics,
and dynos, but that's all theoretical - I'm
looking for something more
concrete.
- --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:56:27
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Interpreting Dyno Graphs WAS: Max boost with upgraded
fuel/stoc k turbos?
Heres a good example of too much boost/timing with a
knock sensor
triggering an ECU correction.
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/celicas/PAM/gt4dyno1.GIFWhat
caused this was timing..using an AFC changed how the ECU saw load,
which
caused the ECU to advance timing a _lot_.
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Gross,
Erik wrote:
> > Looking at the power curve from 2k to 6k
>
> you should be able to see if the timign
> > got retarded.
>
> Ok, so looking at the torque/hp curves, what will you see when knock
occurs
> and/or the ECM backs off the timing?
>
>
Anyone have any pointers to online resources that have info on dyno
graph
> interpretation? I have some general notions of what to
expect based on my
> knowledge of engines, physics, and dynos, but that's
all theoretical - I'm
> looking for something more concrete.
>
> --Erik
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:58:45
-0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
high speed gauge shot
Jim,
Don't take offense to this, but I think
there is something wrong with
the info in the picture.
According to my experimental calculations (on my brother's 94 TT)
here
is what I think:
If 164 mph is correct then the tachometer should
be at:
6210 - 6220 RPM in 5th gear
4760 - 4770 in 6th gear
If the
tachometer is correct at 5100-5200 RPM, then the speed should be:
134-137 mph
in 5th gear
175 - 179 mph in 6th gear
You have standard tires on your
car, right? Somebody please contradict
me and tell me I made a
mistake. Most likely you were in 5th gear when
you did this run, as
anything in that high of a speed requires only 5th
(not sure if 6th can hold
the speed).
I can show the experimental calculations if anyone is
interested. I
have an excel sheet of speed vs. RPM that I made for the
6 speed TT/VR4.
- -MIKE-
95 Red VR4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002
18:09:34 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: high speed gauge shot
In anticipation of my upcoming move from
Germany to England, I decided
to get a shot of my dash gauges at speed on the
Autobahn while I still
have the chance to drive fast legally. Of all
the shots I took, only
one came out (the others were too fuzzy, too dark,
aimed wrong, etc. -
pretty scary!), not at the fastest speed but close enough
(164 mph). If
anyone cares, it's on my web page (just above the Vehicle
Comparison
section. The URL for the picture itself is
http://www.the-matthews.com/images/STEALTH/164mph.jpg.
BTW,
if you're wondering about the fuel level vs. trip odometer (230
miles with a
little over a quarter tank left), I get about 24 mpg at
sane speeds and about
18 mpg at insane speeds. :-)
- - - --
Jim Matthews - Munich,
Germany
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:09:38
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE: high speed gauge shot
Jeff Lucius has a couple of charts on his
site.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-AWD6.htm
Jim Berry
=========================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
> Jim,
>
> Don't take offense to this, but I think there is something wrong
with
> the info in the picture.
>
> According to my
experimental calculations (on my brother's 94 TT) here
> is what I
think:
>
> If 164 mph is correct then the tachometer should be
at:
> 6210 - 6220 RPM in 5th gear
> 4760 - 4770 in 6th gear
>
> If the tachometer is correct at 5100-5200 RPM, then the speed should
be:
> 134-137 mph in 5th gear
> 175 - 179 mph in 6th gear
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:09:34 +0100
> From: "Jim
Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
> Subject:
Team3S: high speed gauge shot
>
> In anticipation of my upcoming
move from Germany to England, I decided
> to get a shot of my dash gauges
at speed on the Autobahn while I still
> have the chance to drive fast
legally. Of all the shots I took, only
> one came out (the others
were too fuzzy, too dark, aimed wrong, etc. -
> pretty scary!), not at the
fastest speed but close enough (164 mph). If
> anyone cares, it's on
my web page (just above the Vehicle Comparison
> section. The URL
for the picture itself is
>
http://www.the-matthews.com/images/STEALTH/164mph.jpg.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:10:24
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: high speed gauge shot
I think the highest top speed in our
cars is in 5th gear even on the 6th
gear cars. Both people who have had
high-speed runs (178 mph) was in
5th gear. Anyone?
I've shifted
up to 5th at 148 mph and that was just short of redline in
4th (like about
6,200-6,500 rpm I think).
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Mihai Raicu
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002
12:59
Jim,
Don't take offense to this, but I think there is
something wrong with
the info in the picture.
According to my
experimental calculations (on my brother's 94 TT) here
is what I
think:
If 164 mph is correct then the tachometer should be at:
6210 -
6220 RPM in 5th gear
4760 - 4770 in 6th gear
If the tachometer is
correct at 5100-5200 RPM, then the speed should be:
134-137 mph in 5th
gear
175 - 179 mph in 6th gear
You have standard tires on your car,
right? Somebody please contradict
me and tell me I made a
mistake. Most likely you were in 5th gear when
you did this run, as
anything in that high of a speed requires only 5th
(not sure if 6th can hold
the speed).
I can show the experimental calculations if anyone is
interested. I
have an excel sheet of speed vs. RPM that I made for the
6 speed TT/VR4.
- -MIKE-
95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:13:06
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
The 3S AWS system is made for
high-speed lane changes and high-speed turns.
The benefit of AWS in changing
lanes faster is obvious - you do not need to
rotate your right, for example,
car to move to the right lane, turning all
wheels right is enough. This
improves stability by decreasing yaw.
The AWS also makes for faster
high-speed turns. A normal front-wheel
steering car does not really start to
turn until its front moves slightly
towards the center of the turn and the
car's body turns a little WRT its
vertical axis. The rear wheels start
engaging only after the body turns.
But the AWS allows to apply the lateral
centrifugal force to the rear
wheels right away, without having to wait for
the body to turn.
This applies only to diving at high speeds where small
steering angles
result in large centrifugal forces and quick changes in
direction of the
vehicle. At low speeds some cars have their wheels steer in
the opposite
direction of the front wheels. This way the turning radius
becomes tighter
and the car turns faster.
The slip angle of the rear
wheels actually increases in case of the
"in-phase" AWS because the rear
wheels are steering into the turn. This
increase in angle occurs
simultaneously on the front and the rear wheels,
which results in better
stability and faster steering response. But I see
how the rear could start
sliding out if the rear-wheel steering kicks in
all of a sudden after the car
is already in a turn at its maximum possible
lateral g. The rear wheels won't
be able to handle the extra slip angle.
The AWS should engage
smoothly.
In the "out-of-phase" system, the slip angle of the rear wheels
decreases,
causing the rear wheels to come more towards the outside of the
turn. The
problem with the "out-of-phase" system is that it is dumb and it
reacts
incorrectly if the car starts fishtailing and the driver tries to
regain
control.
The general idea is that the rear wheels should steer
into the turn at high
speeds and out of the turn at low speeds.
BTW,
the slip angles of the rear wheels on AWS and FWS cars only differ in
the
transient phases of maneuvers. When the transient phase is over, both
cars
will have the same slip angles because at steady state they are
dictated by
the centrifugal forces on each axle.
Philip
-
----------------------------------------------------------
That's the point
Alex, less rotational movement and more lateral. Basic
math
fastest way between 2 points is a straight line ;) Unless you
are
talking about travel around the earth.
> I'm confused - how is
turning the rear wheels in the
> same direction as the front wheels going
to make it
> turn faster? doesn't that mean that the relative
angle
> of the front and rear wheels going to decrease?
> Wouldn't
that have more of a sliding effect than a
> turning
effect?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:25:42
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Philip,
The AWS
makes the rear wheels DECREASE their slip angle which is how
they maintain
control. You can not maintain traction with a larger slip
angle.
Otherwise, everything else seems accurate.
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSent:
Wednesday, February 20, 2002 13:13
The 3S AWS system is made for
high-speed lane changes and high-speed
turns.
The benefit of AWS in
changing lanes faster is obvious - you do not need
to
rotate your right,
for example, car to move to the right lane, turning
all
wheels right is
enough. This improves stability by decreasing yaw.
The AWS also makes for
faster high-speed turns. A normal front-wheel
steering car does not really
start to turn until its front moves
slightly
towards the center of the
turn and the car's body turns a little WRT its
vertical axis. The rear wheels
start engaging only after the body turns.
But the AWS allows to apply the
lateral centrifugal force to the rear
wheels right away, without having to
wait for the body to turn.
This applies only to diving at high speeds
where small steering angles
result in large centrifugal forces and quick
changes in direction of the
vehicle. At low speeds some cars have their
wheels steer in the opposite
direction of the front wheels. This way the
turning radius becomes
tighter
and the car turns faster.
The slip
angle of the rear wheels actually increases in case of the
"in-phase" AWS
because the rear wheels are steering into the turn. This
increase in angle
occurs simultaneously on the front and the rear
wheels,
which results in
better stability and faster steering response. But I
see
how the rear
could start sliding out if the rear-wheel steering kicks in
all of a sudden
after the car is already in a turn at its maximum
possible
lateral g. The
rear wheels won't be able to handle the extra slip angle.
The AWS should
engage smoothly.
In the "out-of-phase" system, the slip angle of the rear
wheels
decreases,
causing the rear wheels to come more towards the outside
of the turn.
The
problem with the "out-of-phase" system is that it is dumb
and it reacts
incorrectly if the car starts fishtailing and the driver tries
to regain
control.
The general idea is that the rear wheels should
steer into the turn at
high
speeds and out of the turn at low
speeds.
BTW, the slip angles of the rear wheels on AWS and FWS cars only
differ
in
the transient phases of maneuvers. When the transient phase is
over,
both
cars will have the same slip angles because at steady state
they are
dictated by the centrifugal forces on each axle.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:36:17
-0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: high speed gauge shot
172 in 5th gear. Forget what the
RPMs were at - it was several years ago.
Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:10
PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: high speed gauge shot
>
> I think the
highest top speed in our cars is in 5th gear even on the 6th
> gear
cars. Both people who have had high-speed runs (178 mph) was in
>
5th gear. Anyone?
>
> I've shifted up to 5th at 148 mph and
that was just short of redline in
> 4th (like about 6,200-6,500 rpm I
think).
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Mihai Raicu
> Sent: Wednesday,
February 20, 2002 12:59
>
> Jim,
>
> Don't take
offense to this, but I think there is something wrong with
> the info in
the picture.
>
> According to my experimental calculations
(on my brother's 94 TT) here
> is what I think:
>
> If 164
mph is correct then the tachometer should be at:
> 6210 - 6220 RPM in 5th
gear
> 4760 - 4770 in 6th gear
>
> If the tachometer is
correct at 5100-5200 RPM, then the speed should be:
> 134-137 mph in 5th
gear
> 175 - 179 mph in 6th gear
>
> You have standard tires
on your car, right? Somebody please contradict
> me and tell me I
made a mistake. Most likely you were in 5th gear when
> you did this
run, as anything in that high of a speed requires only 5th
> (not sure if
6th can hold the speed).
>
> I can show the experimental
calculations if anyone is interested. I
> have an excel sheet of
speed vs. RPM that I made for the 6 speed TT/VR4.
>
>
-MIKE-
> 95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:13:20
-0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
Should I even install
the upgraded fuel system then before upgrading the
turbos? What will it
net me with stock turbos?
Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Gerl
[SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:14
AM
> To: Team3s (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Max boost with
upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
>
> > I was wondering what the max
boost I should run SAFELY once I get them
>
> If savely is in
capitals then 15 psi.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:33:53
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
Throwout can make different
sounds, most common would be the little squeak
you are experiencing which
goes away with slight pressure. maybe it didn't
get pinned in correctly, and
the whole assembly is turning, or part of it is
slightly rubbing the
throwout. I think we have a flywheel pilot bearing
also, which they/you may
not have replaced.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Bill vp [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:36
PM
To: team3/S
Subject: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or
not??
I've only put about 3,000 miles on the POS, and it is already
squeaking!! I
bought it from the dealership myself too, so I know it is new!!
WTF
but the weird thing about it is that in order for me to get the noise
to go
away, I only have to push the clutch in to the point where all the free
play
is gone
When I had a throwout bearing go out on me before, I had
to push the clutch
to the floor to get it to go away. Also, this noise is
more of a constant
squeaking ... when before it was a "rougher" sounding
noise; I don't even
remember exactly what it sounded like, but I know it is
different sounding
than what is going on now
Could it be anything
else?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:55:16
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
First, I noticed I messed up one
sentence. I wanted to say "The benefit of
AWS in changing lanes faster is
obvious - you do not need to ROTATE YOUR
WHOLE CAR RIGHT, for example, to
move to the right lane. Turning all the
wheels right is enough."
Let's
see what is going on with the slip angles. I do not like
the
increase-decrease terminology without any further explanation because
a
decrease at one moment causes an increase at the next. In a FWS car
you
first turn your front wheels into the turn. This causes a lateral
reaction
force on the front axle, the front slip angle increases, and you
start
turning right. Then the centrifugal force occurs that creates a
lateral
reaction force on the rear axle, the rear slip angle increases, and
you
keep turning.
On an AWS car both wheels turn right at the same
time. The front wheels
turn a little more. The lateral force occurs
simultaneously on both axles,
both slip angles increase simultaneously, and
you start turning right. The
difference is that you do not have to wait for
the centrifugal force to
occur for your rear wheels to engage and start
carrying the lateral load.
The AWS preempts the lateral force on the rear
wheels.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
(no AWS, so I really have no idea what I
am talking about ;-)
-
-----------------------------------------------------
Philip,
The AWS makes the rear wheels DECREASE their slip angle which is how
they
maintain control. You can not maintain traction with a larger
slip
angle. Otherwise, everything else seems accurate.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:23:28
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Max boost with upgraded fuel/stock turbos?
You should install
diagnostic parts, coils and spark amplifier too.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch> Should I even
install the upgraded fuel system then before upgrading the
> turbos?
What will it net me with stock turbos?
>
> Dave 95VR4
>
http://www.daveblack.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:28:37
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: high speed gauge shot
Our tach shows about 10-16km/h too
much above 150 km/h
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> Don't take offense to
this, but I think there is something wrong with
> the info in the
picture.
>
> According to my experimental calculations (on
my brother's 94 TT) here
> is what I think:
>
> If 164 mph is
correct then the tachometer should be at:
> 6210 - 6220 RPM in 5th
gear
> 4760 - 4770 in 6th gear
>
> If the tachometer is
correct at 5100-5200 RPM, then the speed should be:
> 134-137 mph in 5th
gear
> 175 - 179 mph in 6th gear
>
> You have standard tires
on your car, right? Somebody please contradict
> me and tell me I
made a mistake. Most likely you were in 5th gear when
> you did this
run, as anything in that high of a speed requires only 5th
> (not sure if
6th can hold the speed).
>
> I can show the experimental
calculations if anyone is interested. I
> have an excel sheet of
speed vs. RPM that I made for the 6 speed TT/VR4.
>
>
-MIKE-
> 95 Red VR4
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:09:34
+0100
> From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
> Subject:
Team3S: high speed gauge shot
>
> In anticipation of my upcoming
move from Germany to England, I decided
> to get a shot of my dash gauges
at speed on the Autobahn while I still
> have the chance to drive fast
legally. Of all the shots I took, only
> one came out (the others
were too fuzzy, too dark, aimed wrong, etc. -
> pretty scary!), not at the
fastest speed but close enough (164 mph). If
> anyone cares, it's on
my web page (just above the Vehicle Comparison
> section. The URL
for the picture itself is
>
http://www.the-matthews.com/images/STEALTH/164mph.jpg.
>
> BTW, if you're wondering about the fuel level vs. trip odometer
(230
> miles with a little over a quarter tank left), I get about 24 mpg
at
> sane speeds and about 18 mpg at insane speeds. :-)
>
> - - --
> Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:37:05
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: high speed gauge shot
Why would I take offense? All I
did was take a picture! Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17 on all
four
corners. Don't remember if I was in 5th or 6th (I think 6th), but in my
experience both gears
will hold 170mph but neither will accelerate much
beyond it.
- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Mihai Raicu [mailto:mraicu@wayne.edu]
Sent: Wednesday,
February 20, 2002 6:59 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stCc:
jim@the-matthews.comSubject: RE: high
speed gauge shot
Jim,
Don't take offense to this, but I think
there is something wrong with
the info in the picture.
According to my
experimental calculations (on my brother's 94 TT) here
is what I
think:
If 164 mph is correct then the tachometer should be at:
6210 -
6220 RPM in 5th gear
4760 - 4770 in 6th gear
If the tachometer is
correct at 5100-5200 RPM, then the speed should be:
134-137 mph in 5th
gear
175 - 179 mph in 6th gear
You have standard tires on your car,
right? Somebody please contradict
me and tell me I made a
mistake. Most likely you were in 5th gear when
you did this run, as
anything in that high of a speed requires only 5th
(not sure if 6th can hold
the speed).
I can show the experimental calculations if anyone is
interested. I
have an excel sheet of speed vs. RPM that I made for the
6 speed TT/VR4.
- -MIKE-
95 Red VR4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002
18:09:34 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: high speed gauge shot
In anticipation of my upcoming move from
Germany to England, I decided
to get a shot of my dash gauges at speed on the
Autobahn while I still
have the chance to drive fast legally. Of all
the shots I took, only
one came out (the others were too fuzzy, too dark,
aimed wrong, etc. -
pretty scary!), not at the fastest speed but close enough
(164 mph). If
anyone cares, it's on my web page (just above the Vehicle
Comparison
section. The URL for the picture itself is
http://www.the-matthews.com/images/STEALTH/164mph.jpg.
BTW,
if you're wondering about the fuel level vs. trip odometer (230
miles with a
little over a quarter tank left), I get about 24 mpg at
sane speeds and about
18 mpg at insane speeds. :-)
- - - --
Jim Matthews - Munich,
Germany
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:40:51
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Interpreting Dyno Graphs WAS: Max boost with upgraded
fuel/stock turbos?
http://www.rtec.ch/17-05-00_1_l.gifKnock
at 5200 and up. Timing niot retarded but not advanced enough anymore
due to
knock. The curve is not going further than extrapolated.
http://www.rtec.ch/17-05-00_2_l.gifSame
problem, more noticeable.
http://www.rtec.ch/roger_1.gifRetard
at 5000 rpm. Knock appeared at 4800, then retard was initiated as
knock went
above 11 sum.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Roger
Gerl'" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>;
"Team3S List (E-mail)"
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, February 20, 2002 6:50 PM
Subject: Team3S: Interpreting Dyno
Graphs WAS: Max boost with upgraded
fuel/stock turbos?
> >
Looking at the power curve from 2k to 6k
> > you should be able to see
if the timign
> > got retarded.
>
> Ok, so looking at the
torque/hp curves, what will you see when knock
occurs
> and/or the ECM
backs off the timing?
>
> Anyone have any pointers to online
resources that have info on dyno graph
> interpretation? I have some
general notions of what to expect based on my
> knowledge of engines,
physics, and dynos, but that's all theoretical - I'm
> looking for
something more concrete.
>
> --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:54:29
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Philip,
I was under the
impression that a slip angle of 12 degrees is about the
size where a driver
will start to feel the back end starting to slide
out. Anything larger
and it is a slide and anything less feels fine.
So that is why I thought the
rear wheels would make it less slip angle.
Looking at the book I think it is
the Yaw Angle that is reduced and the
slip angle doesn't enter into it
(although it does get larger).
Yaw angle being the angle of the
centerline of the car and the tangent
of the curve. Sprint cars on dirt
drive with a slip angle of 30, 40,
50, 60 degrees which is fun to watch
(motorcycle racing on ice is the
same thing) but a 10 degree yaw angle might
make a 12 degree rear wheel
slip angle so steering the rear wheels to the
inside of the turn by up
to 1.5 degrees will make this 12 degree slip angle
larger (14.5
degrees?) but the yaw angle will be less (8 degree?) and the car
will be
closer to the centerline of the radius of the curve.
So maybe
I was thinking of yaw and not slip.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSent:
Wednesday, February 20, 2002 14:55
First, I noticed I messed up one
sentence. I wanted to say "The benefit
of
AWS in changing lanes faster is
obvious - you do not need to ROTATE YOUR
WHOLE CAR RIGHT, for example, to
move to the right lane. Turning all the
wheels right is enough."
Let's
see what is going on with the slip angles. I do not like
the
increase-decrease terminology without any further explanation because
a
decrease at one moment causes an increase at the next. In a FWS car
you
first turn your front wheels into the turn. This causes a
lateral
reaction
force on the front axle, the front slip angle increases,
and you start
turning right. Then the centrifugal force occurs that creates a
lateral
reaction force on the rear axle, the rear slip angle increases, and
you
keep turning.
On an AWS car both wheels turn right at the same
time. The front wheels
turn a little more. The lateral force occurs
simultaneously on both
axles,
both slip angles increase simultaneously,
and you start turning right.
The
difference is that you do not have to
wait for the centrifugal force to
occur for your rear wheels to engage and
start carrying the lateral
load.
The AWS preempts the lateral force on the
rear wheels.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
(no AWS, so I really have no idea
what I am talking about ;-)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:36:48
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Hehehe! Flash, I think you are
still confused: 10, 12, 1.5, 12, 14.5, 8
degrees, LOL!
The slip angle
depends only on the lateral force, which is basically the
same for AWS and
FWS cars. Therefore when the car is turning at a steady
state both AWS and
FWS cars will have the same slip angles in the front and
in the rear if they
are following the same radius at the same speed. But
the body positions (the
yaw angle) will be different. An AWS 3S will be
looking towards the outside
of the turn by 1.5 degrees more. The rear
wheels will be looking towards the
inside of the turn by 1.5 degrees ***WRT
car's body*** and the front wheels
will also be looking towards the inside
of the turn, but only by 1.5 degrees
more than those of a FWS car. The rear
wheels of a AWS car will be following
a smaller radius than those of a FWS
car. But the slip angles will be the
same between the two cars, both front
and both
rear.
Philip
>So maybe I was thinking of yaw and not
slip.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:44:11
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Flash is not the only one who is
confused. I have got to go home and get
out some graph paper and draw
this. It is beyond my ability to visualize at
this point.
Thanks
for making us re-think this whole AWS thing!
Chuck
Willis
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:27:47
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Make our own cam gears?
O.K. here I go bucking the
"establishment" I just recieved my
adjustable cam gears from 3sx....in
short...love it.
Now for the technical side of the list....why couldn't
we cut a new
key slot in the cam gears we have? Figure 50.00 for the new gear
from
mitsu parts times four and a few bucks for broaching and a
fancy
fixture...and wallah 1 deg one way and 3 deg back like everybody
says
is the good start point....If a fixture was made to clock these
gears
to a desired setting and without stating the obvious about how
close
we all would want it...near perfect zero Tolerance....then why
not?
All four gears are the same part number.....any
thoughts......ad
would this set of new steel gears with the new slot at "X"
deg as
specified be even worth doing? figure update the old ones for
150.00
or even supply all new stock gears with both offset for added HP
and
stock locations for say 350.00?
any thoughts?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:57:15
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Make
our own cam gears?
I've got a spare set lying around if you want to try
it. They're off an NA
engine, but it shouldn't matter. I could ship them as
soon as Friday. Let
me know if you're interested.
Jeff
V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo (currently DOA)
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of ek2mfg
Sent: Wednesday,
February 20, 2002 5:28 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Make our own cam gears?
O.K. here I go bucking the
"establishment" I just recieved my
adjustable cam gears from 3sx....in
short...love it.
Now for the technical side of the list....why couldn't
we cut a new
key slot in the cam gears we have? Figure 50.00 for the new gear
from
mitsu parts times four and a few bucks for broaching and a
fancy
fixture...and wallah 1 deg one way and 3 deg back like everybody
says
is the good start point....If a fixture was made to clock these
gears
to a desired setting and without stating the obvious about how
close
we all would want it...near perfect zero Tolerance....then why
not?
All four gears are the same part number.....any
thoughts......ad
would this set of new steel gears with the new slot at "X"
deg as
specified be even worth doing? figure update the old ones for
150.00
or even supply all new stock gears with both offset for added HP
and
stock locations for say 350.00?
any thoughts?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:37:22
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
by slight pressure, do
you mean it is normal for the clutch to not have to
be engaged "at all" to
get it to stop (the squeaking)?
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Zobel, Kurt [mailto:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002
2:34 PM
To: Bill vp; team3/S
Subject: RE: Team3S: throwout bearing
squeaking, or not??
Throwout can make different sounds, most common would
be the little squeak
you are experiencing which goes away with slight
pressure. maybe it didn't
get pinned in correctly, and the whole assembly is
turning, or part of it is
slightly rubbing the throwout. I think we have a
flywheel pilot bearing
also, which they/you may not have
replaced.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
[mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:36
PM
To: team3/S
Subject: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or
not??
I've only put about 3,000 miles on the POS, and it is already
squeaking!! I
bought it from the dealership myself too, so I know it is new!!
WTF
but the weird thing about it is that in order for me to get the noise
to go
away, I only have to push the clutch in to the point where all the free
play
is gone
When I had a throwout bearing go out on me before, I had
to push the clutch
to the floor to get it to go away. Also, this noise is
more of a constant
squeaking ... when before it was a "rougher" sounding
noise; I don't even
remember exactly what it sounded like, but I know it is
different sounding
than what is going on now
Could it be anything
else?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:45:58
-0500
From: "Jason Toy" <
LiquidShadow22@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: Check engine Sign
Can someone help me out here. I just got a
new starter put into my 1996
3000gt base last weekend. Put some gas (super)
in today, and then The
Check engine sign came in. Should I go back to the
mechanic at the getty
and yell at him, or is there something I could do on my
own to cure this
problem. The car has 46k miles on it, and the everything
seems fine to
me. 20 min later I checked the car again, the sign was gone. I
don't
know what to think now.
Please let me know what you guys
think.
Thanks,
Jason
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:59:57
-0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Lightweight 17" wheels for a '94 VR-4
All -
I recently
bent a rim on my VR-4. :( I'm looking at getting a
stock
replacement (if you've got one for sale let me know!!), but I've also
been
thinking this could be a good opportunity to get some lighter
wheels. It's
my understanding that a reduction in rotating mass can
make a pretty
significant performance difference. I just got new tires
and want to keep
the wheels as light as possible, so I want to stick with 17"
wheels.
I know one of the main concerns with aftermarket wheels is
clearing the
brake calipers, but what about weight? I haven't been able
to find any
weight tolerance specs on any of the wheels I've looked at...does
anyone
know how to go about that?
The two wheels that have
caught my eye thus far are the Kosei K1 Racing
wheels and the SSR Competition
wheels, both in the dark finish (looks are
somewhat of a factor!) and
available on TireRack.com. Anybody have any
experience with either of
these? Also, what width of wheel should I be
looking at? Any
suggestions on other wheels I should look at?
Thanks,
- -
Brian
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:01:35
-0600
From: Elbert Klob <
elbertklob@megared.net.mx>
Subject:
Team3S: Speedometer fluctation
have a 1992 Dodge stealth base model
with 75000 miles on it. I live in
Mexico and parts are extremely hard to get,
the local Dodge is not
always helpful
My problem is this; my
speedometer fluctuates a little under 60 MPH.
When I get up to 60 MPH after a
wile the speed starts to climb.
According to my Speedometer I can go from 60
MPH to about 170 MPH at
3000 RPM in a
1/4 second. You might not believe
that a base model can go that fast, I
know that I don't. Does anyone have an
idea about the cause of this
problem. The Dodge dealer's mechanics think that
it is a problem with
the cable and have cleaned and lubed it at least
twice.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Al
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:03:19
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
On a couple of threads
on 3si.org there is disagreement over whether a "bad"
throwout bearing will
squeak with the clutch pushed IN or NOT PUSHED IN, and
the noise will then go
away when the opposite is done. Would some of you
please elaborate for
me on which of these is the case and why?
thanks,
Bill
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
[mailto:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:34 PM
To:
Bill vp; team3/S
Subject: RE: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or
not??
Throwout can make different sounds, most common would be the little
squeak
you are experiencing which goes away with slight pressure. maybe it
didn't
get pinned in correctly, and the whole assembly is turning, or part of
it is
slightly rubbing the throwout. I think we have a flywheel pilot
bearing
also, which they/you may not have replaced.
Kurt
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
[mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:36
PM
To: team3/S
Subject: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or
not??
I've only put about 3,000 miles on the POS, and it is already
squeaking!! I
bought it from the dealership myself too, so I know it is new!!
WTF
but the weird thing about it is that in order for me to get the noise
to go
away, I only have to push the clutch in to the point where all the free
play
is gone
When I had a throwout bearing go out on me before, I had
to push the clutch
to the floor to get it to go away. Also, this noise is
more of a constant
squeaking ... when before it was a "rougher" sounding
noise; I don't even
remember exactly what it sounded like, but I know it is
different sounding
than what is going on now
Could it be anything
else?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:28:22
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Lightweight 17" wheels for a '94 VR-4
Brian,
I have track wheels from a 1997 SL and they are about 25# each.
Not
light but I also don't want them made out of sheet aluminum and so
light
they bend when I take a bump on a road course. I don't mind an
extra 5#
as long as I know it is beefy and sturdy enough to hold up to the
abuse.
Besides, once you are up to speed you try to maintain it on the
track.
Doing a 1/4 mile drag on the other hand is a different
story.
I think Jeff Lucius has a great setup and the tire+wheel
is down to
near 40# total (my tire is 25# and wheel is about 25#) but it is
a
255/40/17 too instead of the stock size).
It depends if you
will upgrade brake calipers but just look for one
with the same offset (42 mm
I think?) and it should be okay. I believe
TireRack has a good handle
on knowing what wheels will clear a stock
setup so feel free to ask
them.
Larger rotational mass (unsprung weight) takes more oomph
to get
going but can also help maintain momentum in and through a
turn
(although it generally doesn't get that for a bonus add-on).
Just
remember that a wheel of 5# lighter certainly will help in starting
up
and getting to speed but that is a savings of 20# on the car total
and
the passenger stock seat from a VR-4 weighs 40#. Just do some
smart
math occasionally.
The 8" width is good stock size to
maintain so speedo and tach are
nice and accurate with good tire selection
(plus sizing that is). If
you want wider wheels up front then you need
longer wheel studs,
spacers, etc. I believe a 265-width tire fits under
a stock second gen
VR-4 (or it does for me). This also can fit on the
17x8 wheel.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geddes, Brian J
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002
20:00
I recently bent a rim on my VR-4. :( I'm looking
at getting a stock
replacement (if you've got one for sale let me know!!),
but I've also
been
thinking this could be a good opportunity to get some
lighter wheels.
It's
my understanding that a reduction in rotating mass
can make a pretty
significant performance difference. I just got new
tires and want to
keep
the wheels as light as possible, so I want to stick
with 17" wheels.
I know one of the main concerns with aftermarket
wheels is clearing the
brake calipers, but what about weight? I haven't
been able to find any
weight tolerance specs on any of the wheels I've looked
at...does anyone
know how to go about that?
The two wheels that
have caught my eye thus far are the Kosei K1 Racing
wheels and the SSR
Competition wheels, both in the dark finish (looks
are
somewhat of a
factor!) and available on TireRack.com. Anybody have any
experience
with either of these? Also, what width of wheel should I be
looking
at? Any suggestions on other wheels I should look at?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:46:05
+0000
From:
apedenko@attbi.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Lightweight 17" wheels for a '94 VR-4
I know Fittipaldi (?) makes a good
set of 17x8 wheels
that clear the stock calipers and are pretty light. I
know it's somewhat apples and oranges, but i replaced
my 18" chromes
with these 17 inchers, and they are
_considerably_ lighter. I can get the
part number if
you want it. And they clear the stock calipers on a '95
VR4 (front and rear)
Alex.
> All -
>
> I
recently bent a rim on my VR-4. :( I'm looking at getting a
stock
> replacement (if you've got one for sale let me know!!), but I've
also been
> thinking this could be a good opportunity to get some lighter
wheels. It's
> my understanding that a reduction in rotating mass
can make a pretty
> significant performance difference. I just got
new tires and want to keep
> the wheels as light as possible, so I want to
stick with 17" wheels.
>
> I know one of the main concerns
with aftermarket wheels is clearing the
> brake calipers, but what about
weight? I haven't been able to find any
> weight tolerance specs on
any of the wheels I've looked at...does anyone
> know how to go about
that?
>
> The two wheels that have caught my eye thus far
are the Kosei K1 Racing
> wheels and the SSR Competition wheels, both in
the dark finish (looks are
> somewhat of a factor!) and available on
TireRack.com. Anybody have any
> experience with either of
these? Also, what width of wheel should I be
> looking at? Any
suggestions on other wheels I should look at?
>
> Thanks,
> -
Brian
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:53:29
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
I don't think the bearing
could go bad in 3000 miles, as you had stated.
There may be some
interference between the clutch fingers and the throwout,
or throwout to
fork.
Is it a squeak or a whirr ? Usually when the throwout is first
going bad,
it will whirr when pedal is not pushed, and any bearing to surface
play is
free to chatter/whirr/whatever.
When the pedal is pushed, all the
play is taken up, and usually no more
noise. As the throwout wears
further, it may begin grinding when force is
applied, but only whirring a bit
when released, so it seems to go away or
get better in opposite ways.
Anyone else please share your thoughts?
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
[mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:03
PM
To: team3/S
Subject: RE: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or
not??
On a couple of threads on 3si.org there is disagreement over
whether a "bad"
throwout bearing will squeak with the clutch pushed IN or NOT
PUSHED IN, and
the noise will then go away when the opposite is done.
Would some of you
please elaborate for me on which of these is the case and
why?
thanks,
Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel,
Kurt [mailto:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:34
PM
To: Bill vp; team3/S
Subject: RE: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking,
or not??
Throwout can make different sounds, most common would be the
little squeak
you are experiencing which goes away with slight pressure.
maybe it didn't
get pinned in correctly, and the whole assembly is turning,
or part of it is
slightly rubbing the throwout. I think we have a flywheel
pilot bearing
also, which they/you may not have
replaced.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
[mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:36
PM
To: team3/S
Subject: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or
not??
I've only put about 3,000 miles on the POS, and it is already
squeaking!! I
bought it from the dealership myself too, so I know it is new!!
WTF
but the weird thing about it is that in order for me to get the noise
to go
away, I only have to push the clutch in to the point where all the free
play
is gone
When I had a throwout bearing go out on me before, I had
to push the clutch
to the floor to get it to go away. Also, this noise is
more of a constant
squeaking ... when before it was a "rougher" sounding
noise; I don't even
remember exactly what it sounded like, but I know it is
different sounding
than what is going on now
Could it be anything
else?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:54:25
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
in it's normal state [ clutch out ]
the throwout bearing is just sitting on the splined
input shaft rotating at
whatever speed the shaft is rotating --- It should not be
touching the
pressure plate. When you depress the clutch the fork pushes the
throwout
bearing forward on the splined shaft until it contacts the pressure plate
at
which time the outer race of the throwout bearing starts to rotate at the speed
of the pressure plate while the inner race of the throwout bearing is still
rotating
at the speed of the input shaft. The throwout bearing and clutch
plate are on the
same splined input shaft, while the pressure plate and
flywheel are attached to
the crankshaft. As long as the clutch is depressed
the throwout bearing is in
contact with the pressure plate --- it's possible
that if the splined input shaft was
not greased the throwout bearing is still
touching the pressure plate and causing
a problem --- throwout bearings are
not made to run continuously, if it remains in
contact with the pressure
plate when the clutch is released it may wear out
prematurely. Our cars do
not have a pilot bushing so that is not an issue.
Bottom line --- with
the clutch out the throwout bearing has all it parts rotating
at the same
speed and thus no noise should occur --- unless --- the bearing
did not
release properly.
Jim
Berry
========================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
> On
a couple of threads on 3si.org there is disagreement over whether a
"bad"
> throwout bearing will squeak with the clutch pushed IN or NOT
PUSHED IN, and
> the noise will then go away when the opposite is
done. Would some of you
> please elaborate for me on which of these
is the case and why?
>
> thanks,
> Bill
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:01:58
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: paint q
I wish I lived near you guys. Here in NJ I had a
reputable shop just
repaint and take some dings out of my rear 1/4 panels,
front and back bumper
covers and the skirts. Total price was
$3600. This was just a partial
repaint--no doors, hood, hatch,
roof,fenders.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal
<
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: Team3s Tech
List <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:10 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: paint
q
>You're insane if you're spending 5-7k. My girlfriend's uncle
does that
work
>for a living. He charges 1500-2000 for the labor
and about 1000 for
>materials unless you're doing something
outlandish. This is retail and not
>the "family" discount. I
wish I had pictures of his work. It's really
show
>car class
work. I'd say expect around $3500 for a job done by a truly
>skilled
artist. Not the local hacks down at Maaco ;)
>
>Jeff
V.
>1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo (currently
DOA)
>jeffv@1nce.com
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
>Of fastmax
>Sent:
Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:52 PM
>To:
apedenko@attbi.com;
team3s@team3s.com>Subject: Re:
Team3S: paint q
>
>
>To properly recolor a car plan on
spending 5 to 7
thousand.
>
> Jim
berry
>==========================================
>----- Original
Message -----
>From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
>To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
>Sent: Tuesday,
February 19, 2002 8:40 PM
>Subject: Team3S: paint q
>
>>
I'm considering having my green vr4 re-painted to
>> either red or
black. I've heard horror stories of ppl
>> getting something like that
done, and then having the
>> new paint peel off after a
while.
>>
>> Any recommendations on places to get that done
w/o
>> having it peel?
>>
>> also, what's a good
price range?
>>
>> BTW, can a carbon fiber hood be painted, or
does it
>> have to stay that checkered
color?
>>
>> Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:28:47
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: paint q
At 09:01 PM 2/20/02 -0000, Sam Shelat wrote:
>I
wish I lived near you guys. Here in NJ I had a reputable shop
just
>repaint and take some dings out of my rear 1/4 panels, front and
back bumper
>covers and the skirts. Total price was $3600.
This was just a partial
>repaint--no doors, hood, hatch,
roof,fenders.
>
>It would been worth it for you to drive to Iowa. I
paid the same --about $3500 -- to paint my left fender, door and rear quarter,
but it also included a new door and new scoop trim piece ($1600 for the trim
that runs along the door and looks like a rear scoop). I think the actual labor
was about $1,000, give or take. >
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:31:44
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Philip -- I need to scan in the
pictures from Skip Barber's book as that
is what I was going by. Sorry
if that got others confused in the
meantime. I'll get them scanned in
although this scanner doesn't like
Windows XP so it might have to wait until
I get tricky and video tape a
motionless page and then extract a frame of
that video as a snapshot.
Silly I know but when the gadget equipment is not
at home ... I'll see
what I can do.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002
16:44
Flash is not the only one who is confused. I have got to go
home and
get
out some graph paper and draw this. It is beyond my
ability to
visualize at
this point.
Thanks for making us re-think
this whole AWS thing!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:54:42
-0600
From: Elbert Klob <
elbertklob@megared.net.mx>
Subject:
Team3S: Speedometer Fluctation
I have a 1992 Dodge stealth base model
with 75000 miles on it. I live in
Mexico and parts are extremely hard to get,
the local Dodge is not
always helpful
My problem is this; my
speedometer fluctuates a little under 60 MPH.
When I get up to 60 MPH after a
wile the speed starts to climb.
According to my Speedometer I can go from 60
MPH to about 170 MPH at
3000 RPM in a
1/4 second. You might not believe
that a base model can go that fast, I
know that I don't. Does anyone have an
idea about the cause of this
problem. The Dodge dealer's mechanics think that
it is a problem with
the cable and have cleaned and lubed it at least
twice.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Al
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:59:39
-0500
From: Anthony Melillo <
anthonymelillo3@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: where to get gray backing for dash kit
I recently broke the
shroud that goes around the instrument cluster when I installed my Indiglo dash
kit.
Of course, it happens to have the carbon fiber dash part on it, and
the guy I bought thr kit from wants $60 for a replacement part.
I know I
can get the carbon fiber part off, but then I won't be able to stick it bas
on.
So I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get the gray double
sided sticky material that goes on the back so I can put the
carbon fiber
part back after getting a new shroud.
Any help will be greatly
appreciated. Thank you
Anthony Melillo
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:24:08
-0800
From: "Ann Koch" <
akoch@sonic.net>
Subject: Team3S:
HPDE-track report
Last weekend at Thunderhill the SCCA instructors came
up with an
interesting twist to track instruction. Groups A and B drove
their cars
through 3 exercises involving a skid pad, threshold braking and a
slalom
course to help the students understand some of what their cars could
do.
Group C ran through 2 slightly oval courses, taking them faster
and
faster until the cars broke away. We ran the 1/2 mile oval
clockwise
and the 1/4 mile oval counter clockwise. Both ovals were
fairly flat.
This was a great exercise but not enough of us pushed our cars
past the
brink to really experience the thrills of spinning out.
There
was a 91 VR-4 in Group C with me (I have a 93 R/T TT) and we had a
great time
pushing each other around the track. I believe that we
progressed
farther by challenging each other than we would have had we
been there
without the other. Plus we could talk about situations
unique to our
cars. On the last run of the day, the VR-4 had an
instructor with
Corvette experience ride with him and help fine-tune the
line for our heavier
cars. We passed a lot of cars that had been
dogging us all
day.
The first instructor who rode with me commented on my Big
Reds. At the
end of the run, he added that my car had way too much body
roll and I
really needed to stiffen the suspension (ECS was engaged) or
add
anti-sway bars or both to help match the potential of the brakes.
So
I'm dying to hear from Rich and Flash about the difference
anti-sway
bars make.
Ann Koch--stock blue 93 Stealth TT with Big Reds
and 18" wheels
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:23:06
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Rims
I was looking at tirerack.com for rims for my '94 VR-4, and
it only came up with 4 different rims. But the instant I switched to SL or
base models of the same year, 46 different rims show up. So my question,
what's the difference between the SL and the VR-4 wheels/brakes, that would drop
my selection by 42, or is this a mistake from the site? If there is a
difference, does anyone know of a site that has a (much) larger selection of
rims for the twin turbo version of our cars? Thanks...
John
'94
3000GT VR-4 (stock)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:28:59
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speedometer fluctation
> My problem is this; my
speedometer fluctuates a little under 60
> MPH. When I get up to 60 MPH
after a wile the speed starts to
> climb. According to my Speedometer I
can go from 60 MPH to
> about 170 MPH at 3000 RPM in a 1/4
second.
Sounds like a sticky speedo cable like the dealer thought.
Cleaning and
re-lubing it might be enough to take care of it, but if you are
going to
keep the car for a while you might want to just replace the
cable. When it
gets sticky like that it gets fatigued and will probably
fail in the near
future.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:35:42
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rims
John,
Remember that the stock curb
weight of a TT car is about 3,750
pounds. The exact same car in the
Base trim is 3,150. Also, lots of
the base versions in the early years
were a 16" wheel and later I think
this was upgraded to 17" and the TT is an
18" so I'm sure as the wheels
get larger the selections get
fewer.
I'm sure TireRack has a good many that are not on the
site too. If
you have one set of wheels in stock would you necessarily
go through the
trouble of putting them online if it is such a low percentage
of the
overall market? I don't think I would. But try the other
places like
DiscountTire.com, etc.
Just remember to look for
the heavier wheels (I can't remember if the
cast or forged is preferred) but
the stamped aluminum that you can put
on an Integra just will not work on our
cars. Now that I think about it
- - I don't think I've heard of many
people who put on a lightweight wheel
and bend it to all heck because they
bottomed out their 3,800 pound
beast. Maybe some of the not-so-bright
ones on 3Si would have some
input or maybe TireRack and others will know what
weight car their
wheels are for.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with 17" and
18" wheels
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Stegall
III
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 22:23
I was looking at
tirerack.com for rims for my '94 VR-4, and it only came
up with 4 different
rims. But the instant I switched to SL or base
models of the same year,
46 different rims show up. So my question,
what's the difference
between the SL and the VR-4 wheels/brakes, that
would drop my selection by
42, or is this a mistake from the site? If
there is a difference, does
anyone know of a site that has a (much)
larger selection of rims for the twin
turbo version of our cars?
Thanks...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:38:06
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Speedometer fluctation
I see that that non VR-4 has a mechanical
cable but the VR-4 has an
electronic speedo sensor. Is there a way to
upgrade this mechanical
speedo cable to an electronically-sensed
one?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 (usually calibrate my speedo by waiting for
Mr. Officer to
tell me what he read it as)
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002
22:29
> My problem is this; my speedometer fluctuates a little
under 60
> MPH. When I get up to 60 MPH after a wile the speed starts
to
> climb. According to my Speedometer I can go from 60 MPH to
>
about 170 MPH at 3000 RPM in a 1/4 second.
Sounds like a sticky speedo
cable like the dealer thought. Cleaning and
re-lubing it might be
enough to take care of it, but if you are going to
keep the car for a while
you might want to just replace the cable. When
it
gets sticky like
that it gets fatigued and will probably fail in the
near
future.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:38:58
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: throwout bearing squeaking, or not??
> in it's normal
state [ clutch out ] the throwout bearing
> is just sitting on the splined
input shaft rotating at
> whatever speed the shaft is rotating --- It
should not
> be touching the pressure plate.
Actually the throwout
bearing doesn't rotate on the tranny shaft - it is
secured to the release
fork with a spring clip, and rides over the fixed
tube that the tranny input
shaft comes out of. Only the face of it rotates
when pressed against
the pressure plate when pressing in the clutch.
Otherwise it should be
stationary - although sometimes it may drag on the
pressure plate and spin
(not desireable).
> As long as the clutch is depressed the throwout
bearing
> is in contact with the pressure plate --- it's possible
>
that if the splined input shaft was not greased the
> throwout bearing is
still touching the pressure plate
> and causing a problem
Not the
splined shaft, but the fixed "post" that it rides on should be
lightly
greased as you mentioned.
> Bottom line --- with the clutch out the
throwout
> bearing has all it parts rotating at the same
> speed and
thus no noise should occur --- unless ---
> the bearing did not release
properly.
With the clutch out the throwout bearing doesn't rotate at
all. It is
attached to the release fork, and uses the input shaft
"sleeve" as a guide
only. If there's noise with no pressure put on the
clutch pedal, then the
throwout bearing isn't sliding back freely on the
sleeve and is now bad, or
it could be an input shaft bearing as well (a much
bigger problem).
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:40:40
-0800
From: "P N Sankarshanan" <
yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Folks:
A couple of months ago, I reported to
this group about a high-pitch
whistle/whine noise, which was diagnosed to be
a compressor surge based on the
inputs I provided. I have since
replaced the stock BOV with a 1G DSM BOV.
However, the high-pitch
whistle/noise still exists; it is more noticeable when
I get off boost
(always happens on the vacuum end of the stock boost gauge, and
never on the
positive pressure side) and sometimes even when under boost (but
still under
vacuum and not positive boost) I have been trying to nail it down
to
specifics, such as rpm, gear, etc. I'll probably have more data in a
few
days; however, if there are specific experiments that you want me to try,
to
get more data, I'll definitely do them as well.
Me thinks this is a problem with my turbos. Is this the case? Or,
could
it be a problem with the vacuum lines? Any help in diagnosing
this problem is
mostly appreciated!
Thanks muchly
- -sankar
'97
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:55:24
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: HPDE-track report
Ann,
So glad you got to the
track. Pittsburgh is calling for snow on
Friday so my track days are
still way, way off into the future. Don't
forget that Jim Floyd also
has dual anti-sway bars. He was at Heartland
Park with us and I drove
his car in the paddock before the front bar
wiggled itself free. I will
say that on a skidpad of about 30-foot
diameter in first gear where you crank
the wheel completely and floor it
usually my car would not be able to hold
and would understeer like mad
(stock suspension). In Jim's car it just
held and I had to stop
accelerating as it was approaching redline. This
was about a 180-degree
to 270-degree turn around and not a constant skidpad
move.
And I will wait for Rich's diagnosis from dual anti-sway
bars. My
driving instructor drove the car with stock suspension and
noted how it
would understeer (even on Interstate entrance ramps) so it will
be
interesting to hear his reaction to the rear anti-sway bar addition
and
I'll also try to play around with adding a front and/or rear strut
tower
bar from Chris (TEC Performance) and report on how those alter
things.
No doubt the anti-sway bars will work and help keep the
car less body
roll but so will stiffer springs and shocks. But to undo
understeer you
can also change tire pressure, use wider tires in the rear (on
a non-AWD
car for us) and things other than just springs/shocks, and the
anti-sway
bar way. This is on the Team3S FAQ page I do
believe.
I like the use of a skidpad and I have not been
fortunate enough yet
to be at a Driver's Ed at Summit Point where they
typically allow you to
use their skidpad. I used to have a G-Tech Pro
and never got to use it
on a skidpad but I feel this would give a learning
student a valuable
lesson in control. The G-Tech can tell instantaneous
G's as well as
Constant G's. The Constant G's needs to be held for a
minimum of
something like 3 seconds (constant radius skidpad for example) and
you
can go around at 20 mph and it will read 0.40 and then slowly
increase
it and increase it faster and faster your way and see what the
highest
reading is (you can wait until you spin out and review the
highest
number later).
Then get an instructor to give tips
and see if you can increase the
number. If the place has a 300-foot
skidpad like the magazines then you
can test your skills against the stock
numbers. I think some of these
Driver's Ed places should at least buy
the $139.95 G-Tech for those who
want some actually numbers on their
cars. Instantaneous G's can be
found by coming down a straight and
turning in to a turn and then read
what it is. Do it again and again
until you spin out and look at the
number. Get some advice and practice
again. Things like that. I loved
it on the street for gathering
some initial numbers and think it would
help other students too.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
(got an instantaneous G=force reading of 1.02 G one
time in a slower,
hard turn ... that was fun)
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Ann Koch
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002
22:24
Last weekend at Thunderhill the SCCA instructors came up with
an
interesting twist to track instruction. Groups A and B drove their
cars
through 3 exercises involving a skid pad, threshold braking and a
slalom
course to help the students understand some of what their cars could
do.
Group C ran through 2 slightly oval courses, taking them faster
and
faster until the cars broke away. We ran the 1/2 mile oval
clockwise
and the 1/4 mile oval counter clockwise. Both ovals were
fairly flat.
This was a great exercise but not enough of us pushed our cars
past the
brink to really experience the thrills of spinning out.
There
was a 91 VR-4 in Group C with me (I have a 93 R/T TT) and we had a
great time
pushing each other around the track. I believe that we
progressed
farther by challenging each other than we would have had we
been there
without the other. Plus we could talk about situations
unique to our
cars. On the last run of the day, the VR-4 had an
instructor with
Corvette experience ride with him and help fine-tune the
line for our heavier
cars. We passed a lot of cars that had been
dogging us all
day.
The first instructor who rode with me commented on my Big
Reds. At the
end of the run, he added that my car had way too much body
roll and I
really needed to stiffen the suspension (ECS was engaged) or
add
anti-sway bars or both to help match the potential of the brakes.
So
I'm dying to hear from Rich and Flash about the difference
anti-sway
bars make.
Ann Koch--stock blue 93 Stealth TT with Big Reds
and 18" wheels
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:35:04
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: HPDE-track report
>The first instructor who rode with me
commented on my Big Reds. At the
>end of the run, he added that my
car had way too much body roll and I
>really needed to stiffen the
suspension (ECS was engaged) or add
>anti-sway bars or both to help
match the potential of the brakes. So
>I'm dying to hear from Rich
and Flash about the difference anti-sway
>bars make.
It was still
wet today, but it dried off enough to try those 100 mph sweepers near my house.
Holy mackeral! The car felt stable and flat through those turns, and I wasn't
even pushing it at 100. Previously, I thought 100 mph was about as fast as I
cared to go through there (it IS a public road, after all), but the car was
saying, "c'mon Richie, let's go a little faster!" That sumbitch is going to get
me throwed in jail one of these days.
I don't know exactly how much they
help, but they sure make a difference.
Rich/slow old poop/94 VR4 with
sway bars.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#759
***************************************
