Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Friday, February 15 2002   Volume 01 : Number 754




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:02:40 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Tranny Issues (REALLY LONG)

Not sure about foreign currencies in PayPal.  Just give it a shot and
send US $1 to someone and let us know.  I imagine the bank will suck it
out of your account and use the bank's current exchange rate, throw in a
percentage for their transaction, plop it into the other person's
account making sure that your US $1 is equivalent to their currency at
the current rate, and keep whatever is leftover as profit.

But to be safe you might want to find the exchange rate yourself and see
if a money order/bank transfer/etc. is cheaper or simpler.

I was wondering the same thing about getting GTO (Japan) parts or
something from New Zealand if the GTO rear plates (between the brake
lights) were not available in the US ... or a driver's seat from a
right-hand drive car for the passenger to cruise in comfort (since I
have a race seat in my driver's side sometimes it would allow the
passenger or Instructor to have a power seat, lumbar, etc. ... which
helps to get bumped into the next faster class when you give them A/C,
radio, power seat, etc. ... heh ... fun with gadgets).

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:52
 
Steve --- what new parts are available for you --- bearings, output
shafts and
Kormex syncro rings are available, every thing else is used.

Knocklink --- if you can get a total on the unit plus shipping I'll get
you the
money and test a unit out with my data logger. Does Paypal do
international
transfers ???

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:45:35 -0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Tranny Issues (REALLY LONG)

I purchased a right side driver's seat from New Zealand using my
credit card.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:03 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Tranny Issues (REALLY LONG)

Not sure about foreign currencies in PayPal.  Just give it a shot and
send US $1 to someone and let us know.  I imagine the bank will suck it
out of your account and use the bank's current exchange rate, throw in a
percentage for their transaction, plop it into the other person's
account making sure that your US $1 is equivalent to their currency at
the current rate, and keep whatever is leftover as profit.

But to be safe you might want to find the exchange rate yourself and see
if a money order/bank transfer/etc. is cheaper or simpler.

I was wondering the same thing about getting GTO (Japan) parts or
something from New Zealand if the GTO rear plates (between the brake
lights) were not available in the US ... or a driver's seat from a
right-hand drive car for the passenger to cruise in comfort (since I
have a race seat in my driver's side sometimes it would allow the
passenger or Instructor to have a power seat, lumbar, etc. ... which
helps to get bumped into the next faster class when you give them A/C,
radio, power seat, etc. ... heh ... fun with gadgets).

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:52
 
Steve --- what new parts are available for you --- bearings, output
shafts and
Kormex syncro rings are available, every thing else is used.

Knocklink --- if you can get a total on the unit plus shipping I'll get
you the
money and test a unit out with my data logger. Does Paypal do
international
transfers ???

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:28:07 -0500
From: "Tom Terflinger" <terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

Hello all,
I will try to keep this short as possible. I am used to 19-21mpg in my
92VR4, after a recent dealer tune-up I am averaging 10mpg!!! I cant afford
to drive my car very long having to fill up every 3 days. I have some HKS
components aftermarket, a VPC, a graphic control computer and a EVC. I am
not sure how to properly set any of them and the dealership screwed them up
I believe. Also the battery was disconnected for a short time so I think
that cleared their "learned settings etc" I can find little info on what
these components do and nothing on how to tune them. Any help will be very
much appreciated!

On a side note the car has recently developed an exaughst leak around both
flex pipes which may have some bearing on my situation. This will be fixed
this sat. for those of you who havent priced them I was told $600.00 to buy
one from mitsubishi, $900.00 and 3 month wait to get one sent from Japan! Or
$400.00 to have one fabricated from stainless steel...

Thanks,
Tom
92VR4
TNT3KGT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:12:42 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tranny Issues & 3 .5l strokers

I had a crunchy downshift to 1st if I was moving even .5 mph... 2nd
was getting notchy. A week before the new owner picked the car up for
good, I finally learned how to *double clutch properly. Poof, all my
problems disappeared. I could go into any gear whenever I wanted,
though it took maybe .5-1 seconds longer to do so. The 92 TT's tranny
was supposedly original with 100,000k on it before problems.

I know, not always optimal for racing, but my point is, if you change
your shifting habits while you are driving around (not everyone races
there car EVERYWHERE do they? :), for the 95% of the life of the car,
properly change the fluids, and maintain it properly... I see the
tranny's lasting well into the 150k+'s. The trannys overall are NOT
badly designed, just the synchro's. Maybe it has to do with the AWD
packaging (new design), maybe it's because Mitsubishi chose to use
cheaper internals when presented with the final design by Getrag
(likely, look at the current eclipse!), maybe it's all the torque the
3.0 puts out especially at 12psi around 4000rpm.

Get a new tranny installed, or start today... double clutch everywhere
you can, unless you are in an emergency maneuver, and see how long it
lasts. I bet it will go for a very long time, around the time you
would need an engine rebuild too hehe :)

Oh, and those of you thinking of the 3.5l crank... don't you think
there is enough torque to ruin drivetrain parts already? :) I have two
strokers (4g63), and we had to clearance the block, the main caps, the
oil pan (dent it out a little), and have a semi-bad rod/stroke ratio,
so it cannot rev high. Custom pistons with the wristpin higher up,
machined/modded stock rods, and some other minor things had to be
done. Run 10's with the 3.0 block first, then worry about stroking it,
unless you have another reason (road racing etc, but I think it would
be less reliable).

*for beginners - http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm
**Can also be applied with modification to high rpm UPSHIFTS
*more indepth - http://integra.vtec.net/driving/dclutch.html

Vinny Singh -
http://www.manualcd.com/ - Service Manuals on CD for your DSM or 3/S!
http://kaizen.eaglecars.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:57:26 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

> I will try to keep this short as possible. I am used to
> 19-21mpg in my 92VR4, after a recent dealer tune-up I am
> averaging 10mpg!!!

Nice tune-up...  What did they work on or replace?

> I cant afford to drive my car very long having to fill up
> every 3 days. I have some HKS components aftermarket, a
> VPC, a graphic control computer and a EVC. I am not sure
> how to properly set any of them and the dealership screwed
> them up I believe.

Lesson #1:  Keep records of all your settings before letting ANYONE use your
car.  People like to mess with things they shouldn't mess with.  If you
don't know how to set the stuff, why have it in the car?  Now you get to
learn how to set them...  Do you have an air/fuel ratio meter?  You'll need
one at a minimum to set the VPC and GCC.

> On a side note the car has recently developed an exaughst
> leak around both flex pipes which may have some bearing
> on my situation. This will be fixed this sat. for those of
> you who havent priced them I was told $600.00 to buy
> one from mitsubishi, $900.00 and 3 month wait to get one sent
> from Japan! Or $400.00 to have one fabricated from
> stainless steel...

You could get an aftermarket downpipe (which is what I assume you mean by
"flex pipes").  If you want to preserve all the catalytic converters and
such, then go with the Alamo downpipe (which unfortunately now for some
reason is really* expensive at $582!!!).  If you don't mind losing the front
pre-cat and main cat (illegal for street use) those are $370.  The ATR
downpipe is $320 from Dynamic Racing and can use a 3" cat if you want, or
eliminate the main cat.

The Stillen pipe has a flex-section, the ATR is solid.

http://www.dynamicracing.com

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:21:43 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

As far as the downpipe leak, buy an aftermarket one for about $350-450 and
be done with it.  With all that other stuff on your car, I wonder why the
previous owner stuck the stock one back on?  Or you could get on www.3si.org
and offer to buy one from somebody for $100 or so.  I am sure people have
one laying around they don't need.  I use mine for smog checks every two
years.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Terflinger <terflit@hotmail.com>
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

>Hello all,
>I will try to keep this short as possible. I am used to 19-21mpg in my
>92VR4, after a recent dealer tune-up I am averaging 10mpg!!! I cant afford
>to drive my car very long having to fill up every 3 days. I have some HKS
>components aftermarket, a VPC, a graphic control computer and a EVC. I am
>not sure how to properly set any of them and the dealership screwed them up
>I believe. Also the battery was disconnected for a short time so I think
>that cleared their "learned settings etc" I can find little info on what
>these components do and nothing on how to tune them. Any help will be very
>much appreciated!
>
>On a side note the car has recently developed an exaughst leak around both
>flex pipes which may have some bearing on my situation. This will be fixed
>this sat. for those of you who havent priced them I was told $600.00 to buy
>one from mitsubishi, $900.00 and 3 month wait to get one sent from Japan!
Or
>$400.00 to have one fabricated from stainless steel...
>
>
>Thanks,
>Tom
>92VR4
>TNT3KGT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:37:56 -0700
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

I could have sworn I just saw a stock DP on ebay.. 

yup, here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1804575160&r=0&t=0

currently at $22.50 with about 4 days to go.

Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =    http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================

+> As far as the downpipe leak, buy an aftermarket one for about $350-450 and
+> be done with it.  With all that other stuff on your car, I wonder why the
+> previous owner stuck the stock one back on?  Or you could get on www.3si.org
+> and offer to buy one from somebody for $100 or so.  I am sure people have
+> one laying around they don't need.  I use mine for smog checks every two
+> years.
+>
+> Sam
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: Tom Terflinger <terflit@hotmail.com>
+> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
+> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:40 PM
+> Subject: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!
+>
+>
+> >Hello all,
+> >I will try to keep this short as possible. I am used to 19-21mpg in my
+> >92VR4, after a recent dealer tune-up I am averaging 10mpg!!! I cant afford
+> >to drive my car very long having to fill up every 3 days. I have some HKS
+> >components aftermarket, a VPC, a graphic control computer and a EVC. I am
+> >not sure how to properly set any of them and the dealership screwed them up
+> >I believe. Also the battery was disconnected for a short time so I think
+> >that cleared their "learned settings etc" I can find little info on what
+> >these components do and nothing on how to tune them. Any help will be very
+> >much appreciated!
+> >
+> >On a side note the car has recently developed an exaughst leak around both
+> >flex pipes which may have some bearing on my situation. This will be fixed
+> >this sat. for those of you who havent priced them I was told $600.00 to buy
+> >one from mitsubishi, $900.00 and 3 month wait to get one sent from Japan!
+> Or
+> >$400.00 to have one fabricated from stainless steel...
+> >
+> >Thanks,
+> >Tom
+> >92VR4
+> >TNT3KGT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:19:33 -0500
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

I would sell my stock downpipe. It only has 45K on it.
BTW, are the 1st gen and the 2nd gen downpipes the same?

Philip

"Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com> wrote:
As far as the downpipe leak, buy an aftermarket one for about $350-450 and
be done with it.  With all that other stuff on your car, I wonder why the
previous owner stuck the stock one back on?  Or you could get on
www.3si.org
and offer to buy one from somebody for $100 or so.  I am sure people have
one laying around they don't need.  I use mine for smog checks every two
years.

Sam

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:34:07 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

I should have been more specific.  I currently have 15G turbos (on stock
boost), a full exhaust, intake, bov, boost controller, etc. and am going to
install 550cc injectors and a Walbro 255 fuel pump.  For these mods, what is
holding me back from just getting the GForce ecu instead of either the
vpc/safc or the arc2?  The gforce ecu will have new fuel maps for the 550
injectors and the 15G turbos, correct?  I understand that it is a static
upgrade, and if later on I decide to upgrade turbos or injectors FURTHER,
that I would need to purchase an additional upgraded ecu.

My understanding of the gforce was that you (I) tell them your mods and they
will make a custom ecu for you, for around $800.  Then you can have the
daily driveability of a stock car.

Is this incorrect information?

- -----Original Message-----
From: jacomj@aur.alcatel.com [mailto:jacomj@aur.alcatel.com]On Behalf Of
Marc Jonathan Jacobs
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:23 PM
To: Bill vp
Subject: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

The Gforce ECU has new fuel maps for the stock injectors (pump doesn't
matter here).  This gets a few more horsepower out of the stock system.
If you change injector size, then you need some other method of fuel
computer.  Otherwise it will not idle, or run well at all.  It should
run fine at 5000 RPM at max boost though.

Gforce might do a custom setup for you, but it is not flexible at all.
If you change anything, you need a new custom ECU.  I highly doubt
Gforce would do a custom without alot of $$$.

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:30:03 -0500
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only (no vpc/safc or arc2)?

What would be the problem with running a G-Force ECU with upgraded
injectors
& pump, along with 15G's at whatever boost pressure is seen to be
knock-free
according to a datalogger?  Supposedly it will give the ecm new fuel
maps
and will help with the timing retard problems associated with installing
new
injectors & fooling the ecm as to airflow.  Why can we not just run
this?  I
understand that I would not get the gain that is associated with
removing
the mass airflow sensor, but if that is the only reason, it is not
enough to
dissuade me.  I want something that is fairly simple -- plug 'n play,
and
doesn't require endless tuning depending upon the various weather
changes.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:43:36 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

They will do a custom ECU, its actually about 900 for a true "custom" set up
and you need to give them pertinent information, i.e.   % of how much larger
your injectors are vs stock, any timing map changes you would like done
etc.....  They do not get into the real nitty gritty required for tuning.
This was as of like 2-3 years ago things may have changed  since then but
they may have not.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill vp [SMTP:billvp@highstream.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:34 PM
> To: team3/S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only
>
> I should have been more specific.  I currently have 15G turbos (on stock
> boost), a full exhaust, intake, bov, boost controller, etc. and am going
> to
> install 550cc injectors and a Walbro 255 fuel pump.  For these mods, what
> is
> holding me back from just getting the GForce ecu instead of either the
> vpc/safc or the arc2?  The gforce ecu will have new fuel maps for the 550
> injectors and the 15G turbos, correct?  I understand that it is a static
> upgrade, and if later on I decide to upgrade turbos or injectors FURTHER,
> that I would need to purchase an additional upgraded ecu.
>
> My understanding of the gforce was that you (I) tell them your mods and
> they
> will make a custom ecu for you, for around $800.  Then you can have the
> daily driveability of a stock car.
>
> Is this incorrect information?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jacomj@aur.alcatel.com [mailto:jacomj@aur.alcatel.com]On Behalf Of
> Marc Jonathan Jacobs
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:23 PM
> To: Bill vp
> Subject: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only
>
>
> The Gforce ECU has new fuel maps for the stock injectors (pump doesn't
> matter here).  This gets a few more horsepower out of the stock system.
> If you change injector size, then you need some other method of fuel
> computer.  Otherwise it will not idle, or run well at all.  It should
> run fine at 5000 RPM at max boost though.
>
> Gforce might do a custom setup for you, but it is not flexible at all.
> If you change anything, you need a new custom ECU.  I highly doubt
> Gforce would do a custom without alot of $$$.
>
>
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:30:03 -0500
> From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
> Subject: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only (no vpc/safc or arc2)?
>
> What would be the problem with running a G-Force ECU with upgraded
> injectors
> & pump, along with 15G's at whatever boost pressure is seen to be
> knock-free
> according to a datalogger?  Supposedly it will give the ecm new fuel
> maps
> and will help with the timing retard problems associated with installing
> new
> injectors & fooling the ecm as to airflow.  Why can we not just run
> this?  I
> understand that I would not get the gain that is associated with
> removing
> the mass airflow sensor, but if that is the only reason, it is not
> enough to
> dissuade me.  I want something that is fairly simple -- plug 'n play,
> and
> doesn't require endless tuning depending upon the various weather
> changes.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:05:58 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

> are the 1st gen and the 2nd gen downpipes the same?

Nope.  The rear flange is rotated between 1G/2G.

- --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:33:20 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 20 to 10mpg in a week!

Did anyone notice whether the e-bay downpipe was 1st or 2nd gen?

> > are the 1st gen and the 2nd gen downpipes the same?
>
> Nope.  The rear flange is rotated between 1G/2G.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:52:01 -0500
From: "Eric" <griz600cc@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Suspension - Struts - Prices

Can anyone please explain this for me? (I apologize for the length)
I called for prices at three places for front and rear struts for a 93
Stealth ES, this is what I was given for prices:

Dodge Dealership: (who also recommened me to a aftermarket place - go
figure??)
Front: $420/pair
Rear: $500/pair
Total: $920

Mistu Dealership:
Front: $345/pair
Rear: $185/pair
Total: $530

Aftermarket Place: (I have no interest in this place)
Front: $245/pair
Rear: $160/pair
Total: $405

Why would there be a $400 differential between Dodge and Mitsu for the same
part?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:27:01 -0800
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Suspension - Struts - Prices

Using CAPS and Rcokville Mitsu online [ http://www.mitsupartsdirect.com/ ]

I find a price of $134 for a front strut, for some reason the CAPS program
wouldn't show me the rear part number.

        Jim berry
===========================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric" <griz600cc@home.com>
To: "Team 3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: Team3S: Suspension - Struts - Prices

| Can anyone please explain this for me? (I apologize for the length)
| I called for prices at three places for front and rear struts for a 93
| Stealth ES, this is what I was given for prices:
|
| Dodge Dealership: (who also recommened me to a aftermarket place - go
| figure??)
| Front: $420/pair
| Rear: $500/pair
| Total: $920
|
| Mistu Dealership:
| Front: $345/pair
| Rear: $185/pair
| Total: $530
|
| Aftermarket Place: (I have no interest in this place)
| Front: $245/pair
| Rear: $160/pair
| Total: $405
|
| Why would there be a $400 differential between Dodge and Mitsu for the same
| part?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:43:11 -0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

As I mentioned, I'm going with the Teins.

Allignment for the front is not a problem
since Tein made provisions. 

However, the back is a problem.
No breaking news there I know.

We all know this - even with just Eibachs
I have to run a little bit of negative camber
since that is as close as they could get
to stock specs.

What now?  Please tell me again
what you all with the GC and Teins
are doing to mod the back in order
to reach - or at least get close to
stock spec.

I've been told by at least two people about
having to go to a frame shop where they routed
out the holes.  One of those people said they
also welded the rear suspension with a permanet
- -1.0 camber.  That might be fine for the Intrax he was
using but doesn't sound as appealing with fully
adjustable type suspention setups? (the permanent
weld)

Another friend (StealthTT owner) told me he went
 to a frame shop and he thought they used shims.  ????
I don't think he was real sure about this .....

So what's the scoop?  What needs to be done
and why is it something that only a "frame shop"
seems to be able to do - or knows how to do?

If we know what needs to be done - can we do
it ourselves or have our favorite speed shop
do it?  Is there some mystical science behind
this that only special frame shops know about?!

A little bit of negative camber seems good -
how much before tire wear becomes an
issue?  (> 1.0?)

Does frequent rotation help or just
extend the inevidable?  Your experience
and rear camber settings would be helpful.

Jim - I believe you said you had substantial
wear but you changed tires very often to deal
with it?  (I won't have that luxury with high dollar
street tires)

Those that have performed the neccessary changes -
how close to stock specs were you able to get
and how much did you drop your car?

I have a first gen if that matters.  I'm not
going to the track (yet) but most people
think I believe I'm on one already ....:)
[read:  fairly agressive setup but not full race]
Probably 3-7 on the Teins based on other owner's
reports/feedback ....

Thanks in advance for answering so many questions,
feel free to answer any / parts if you can.

- - tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:51:10 -0800
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

Welcome to the money pit of car handling --- as you mentioned
I run quite a bit of negative camber [ -1½º ]. Handling is great but
so is the wear, luckily my racing wears the outside edge and the
excess camber wears the inside edge.

Your options are:

Go racing  [ my personal favorite ]

don't lower the car as much [ this is for wusses ]

Set it the best you can and live with it [ my tires are about $170 each ]

Elongate the adjustment holes in the rear --- it's not brain surgery but
not for the faint of heart either. The trick is to find a shop who is
willing to take a chance on modifying the cars suspension.

Look in the 3SI.com archives --- somebody is making an adjustable
rear control arm. It's on my list also but he beat me to it. I'm not
sure as to progress or cost.

        Jim Berry
=============================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

| As I mentioned, I'm going with the Teins.
|
| Allignment for the front is not a problem
| since Tein made provisions.
|
| However, the back is a problem.
| No breaking news there I know.
|
| We all know this - even with just Eibachs
| I have to run a little bit of negative camber
| since that is as close as they could get
| to stock specs.
|
| What now?  Please tell me again
| what you all with the GC and Teins
| are doing to mod the back in order
| to reach - or at least get close to
| stock spec.
|
| I've been told by at least two people about
| having to go to a frame shop where they routed
| out the holes.  One of those people said they
| also welded the rear suspension with a permanet
| -1.0 camber.  That might be fine for the Intrax he was
| using but doesn't sound as appealing with fully
| adjustable type suspention setups? (the permanent
| weld)
|
| Another friend (StealthTT owner) told me he went
|  to a frame shop and he thought they used shims.  ????
| I don't think he was real sure about this .....
|
|
| So what's the scoop?  What needs to be done
| and why is it something that only a "frame shop"
| seems to be able to do - or knows how to do?
|
| If we know what needs to be done - can we do
| it ourselves or have our favorite speed shop
| do it?  Is there some mystical science behind
| this that only special frame shops know about?!
|
| A little bit of negative camber seems good -
| how much before tire wear becomes an
| issue?  (> 1.0?)
|
| Does frequent rotation help or just
| extend the inevidable?  Your experience
| and rear camber settings would be helpful.
|
| Jim - I believe you said you had substantial
| wear but you changed tires very often to deal
| with it?  (I won't have that luxury with high dollar
| street tires)
|
| Those that have performed the neccessary changes -
| how close to stock specs were you able to get
| and how much did you drop your car?
|
| I have a first gen if that matters.  I'm not
| going to the track (yet) but most people
| think I believe I'm on one already ....:)
| [read:  fairly agressive setup but not full race]
| Probably 3-7 on the Teins based on other owner's
| reports/feedback ....
|
|
| Thanks in advance for answering so many questions,
| feel free to answer any / parts if you can.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:28:02 -0500
From: "Eric" <griz600cc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Suspension - Struts - Prices

I take it ECS is for the electronically controlled struts? Non-ECS is for
the n/a and non-awd cars?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Ertl" <hans.ertl@verizon.net>
To: "Eric" <griz600cc@home.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Suspension - Struts - Prices

> Eric, check out my website. I have by far cheaper pricing :) I sell
> mitsubishi parts as well as aftermarket shocks/struts.
>
> Hans
> www.groundzeroperformance.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Eric
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:52 PM
> To: Team 3S
> Subject: Team3S: Suspension - Struts - Prices
>
> Can anyone please explain this for me? (I apologize for the length)
> I called for prices at three places for front and rear struts for a 93
> Stealth ES, this is what I was given for prices:
>
> Dodge Dealership: (who also recommened me to a aftermarket place - go
> figure??)
> Front: $420/pair
> Rear: $500/pair
> Total: $920
>
> Mistu Dealership:
> Front: $345/pair
> Rear: $185/pair
> Total: $530
>
> Aftermarket Place: (I have no interest in this place)
> Front: $245/pair
> Rear: $160/pair
> Total: $405
>
> Why would there be a $400 differential between Dodge and Mitsu for the
same
> part?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:41:35 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

I second the part about the nitty gritty. I would just buy a Apexi SAFC for
$300. You can always tune it to work at least as good as any reprogrammed
ECU. BTW, isn't G-Force out of business?

Philip

At 04:43 PM 2/14/2002, Furman, Russell wrote:
>They will do a custom ECU, its actually about 900 for a true "custom" set up
>and you need to give them pertinent information, i.e.   % of how much larger
>your injectors are vs stock, any timing map changes you would like done
>etc.....  They do not get into the real nitty gritty required for tuning.
>This was as of like 2-3 years ago things may have changed  since then but
>they may have not.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill vp [SMTP:billvp@highstream.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:34 PM
> > To:   team3/S
> > Subject:      RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only
> >
> > I should have been more specific.  I currently have 15G turbos (on stock
> > boost), a full exhaust, intake, bov, boost controller, etc. and am going
> > to
> > install 550cc injectors and a Walbro 255 fuel pump.  For these mods, what
> > is
> > holding me back from just getting the GForce ecu instead of either the
> > vpc/safc or the arc2?  The gforce ecu will have new fuel maps for the 550
> > injectors and the 15G turbos, correct?  I understand that it is a static
> > upgrade, and if later on I decide to upgrade turbos or injectors FURTHER,
> > that I would need to purchase an additional upgraded ecu.
> >
> > My understanding of the gforce was that you (I) tell them your mods and
> > they
> > will make a custom ecu for you, for around $800.  Then you can have the
> > daily driveability of a stock car.
> >
> > Is this incorrect information?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:53:59 -0800
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

Why not just get the AEM stand alone?  For $1340 it does it ALL.  Fuel
curves, boost, timing, OBDII diagnostics!  Sounds like a much better
deal than the G-Force to me.

Philip V. Glazatov wrote:

> I second the part about the nitty gritty. I would just buy a Apexi SAFC
> for $300. You can always tune it to work at least as good as any
> reprogrammed ECU. BTW, isn't G-Force out of business?
>
> Philip
>
> At 04:43 PM 2/14/2002, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
>> They will do a custom ECU, its actually about 900 for a true "custom"
>> set up
>> and you need to give them pertinent information, i.e.   % of how much
>> larger
>> your injectors are vs stock, any timing map changes you would like done
>> etc.....  They do not get into the real nitty gritty required for tuning.
>> This was as of like 2-3 years ago things may have changed  since then but
>> they may have not.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Bill vp [SMTP:billvp@highstream.net]
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:34 PM
>> > To:   team3/S
>> > Subject:      RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only
>> >
>> > I should have been more specific.  I currently have 15G turbos (on
>> stock
>> > boost), a full exhaust, intake, bov, boost controller, etc. and am
>> going
>> > to
>> > install 550cc injectors and a Walbro 255 fuel pump.  For these mods,
>> what
>> > is
>> > holding me back from just getting the GForce ecu instead of either the
>> > vpc/safc or the arc2?  The gforce ecu will have new fuel maps for
>> the 550
>> > injectors and the 15G turbos, correct?  I understand that it is a
>> static
>> > upgrade, and if later on I decide to upgrade turbos or injectors
>> FURTHER,
>> > that I would need to purchase an additional upgraded ecu.
>> >
>> > My understanding of the gforce was that you (I) tell them your mods and
>> > they
>> > will make a custom ecu for you, for around $800.  Then you can have the
>> > daily driveability of a stock car.
>> >
>> > Is this incorrect information?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:32:10 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

That what I am going to get if it indeed works when AEM finally start
selling them.

Philip

At 08:53 PM 2/14/2002, Damon Rachell wrote:
>Why not just get the AEM stand alone?  For $1340 it does it ALL.  Fuel
>curves, boost, timing, OBDII diagnostics!  Sounds like a much better deal
>than the G-Force to me.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:53:08 -0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax <fastmax@cox.net>
To: Todd D.Shelton <tds@brightok.net>; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

>Welcome to the money pit of car handling --- as you mentioned
>I run quite a bit of negative camber [ -1½º ]. Handling is great but
>so is the wear, luckily my racing wears the outside edge and the
>excess camber wears the inside edge.
>
>Your options are:
>
>Go racing  [ my personal favorite ]
>
>don't lower the car as much [ this is for wusses ]
>
>Set it the best you can and live with it [ my tires are about $170 each ]
>
>Elongate the adjustment holes in the rear --- it's not brain surgery but
>not for the faint of heart either. The trick is to find a shop who is
>willing to take a chance on modifying the cars suspension.
>
>Look in the 3SI.com archives --- somebody is making an adjustable
>rear control arm. It's on my list also but he beat me to it. I'm not
>sure as to progress or cost.
>
>        Jim Berry
>=============================================

So it looks like unless/until Paul is able
to build the new rear control arm then
we're pretty much SOL unless we can
find a shop that can cut/hack/drill a solution?

I'll try and contact Paul and see if that is going
to come about before resorting to the other.

Until then I may have to keep on driving fast so
the outer wear matches the inner ....  that should
work out for a while but hopefully the upper control
arm will be the end all.

Drive fast and rotate often - maybe that will
buy some time until the control arms are ready?
(fingers crossed)

I just hope the rear is not much worse than now since
I'm planning on going lower still.  The Eibachs are
barely noticable as far as drop ....

- - tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:22:12 -0500
From: "Jerry B." <scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

My Suggestion on the matter,, Get a job at a tire shop like i have, ( Senior
Tech) that way you get the nice warrenty,,, 25 % off on all tires and 10%
over shop cost for parts,, you can do yoru own alignments when you neeed to
and plenty of information you can handle..

  BTW. anybody here looking for a set of BRIDGESTONE POTENZA RE950's.
245/50/16?
They will fit on the stock rim and will not rub.. They only ahve about 400
miles on them and no uneven tread wear. List price for these tires are
169.00 a piece i believe but I am selling mine for $120.00 a piece. These
tires are the best tire I have put on my Stealth so far.. Now I know there
are better ones out but for the cost you cannot beat these tires.

Now you may ask if these tires are so good why am I selling them??? Well I
am putting my stock ones my car and garaging it for modifications and future
plans. I do not want the tires to sit like they are going 2. So I am
offering somebody the chance to purchase them,, after the car back on the
road i will buy another set. Any takers interested please e-mail me
privately so that this orignal Post does not go off track.. thanks

Jerry B. 92 Stealth ES  & 93 Stealth RT/TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fastmax <fastmax@cox.net>
> To: Todd D.Shelton <tds@brightok.net>; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc
>
> >Welcome to the money pit of car handling --- as you mentioned
> >I run quite a bit of negative camber [ -1½º ]. Handling is great but
> >so is the wear, luckily my racing wears the outside edge and the
> >excess camber wears the inside edge.
> >
> >Your options are:
> >
> >Go racing  [ my personal favorite ]
> >
> >don't lower the car as much [ this is for wusses ]
> >
> >Set it the best you can and live with it [ my tires are about $170 each ]
> >
> >Elongate the adjustment holes in the rear --- it's not brain surgery but
> >not for the faint of heart either. The trick is to find a shop who is
> >willing to take a chance on modifying the cars suspension.
> >
> >Look in the 3SI.com archives --- somebody is making an adjustable
> >rear control arm. It's on my list also but he beat me to it. I'm not
> >sure as to progress or cost.
> >
> >        Jim Berry
> >=============================================
>
> So it looks like unless/until Paul is able
> to build the new rear control arm then
> we're pretty much SOL unless we can
> find a shop that can cut/hack/drill a solution?
>
> I'll try and contact Paul and see if that is going
> to come about before resorting to the other.
>
> Until then I may have to keep on driving fast so
> the outer wear matches the inner ....  that should
> work out for a while but hopefully the upper control
> arm will be the end all.
>
> Drive fast and rotate often - maybe that will
> buy some time until the control arms are ready?
> (fingers crossed)
>
> I just hope the rear is not much worse than now since
> I'm planning on going lower still.  The Eibachs are
> barely noticable as far as drop ....
>
> - tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:44:29 -0500
From: "Eric" <griz600cc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

Working at a tire shop or having family that does helps. My cousin works for
a tire place also. How much for the set of 4?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry B." <scorpman@optonline.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

> My Suggestion on the matter,, Get a job at a tire shop like i have, (
Senior
> Tech) that way you get the nice warrenty,,, 25 % off on all tires and 10%
> over shop cost for parts,, you can do yoru own alignments when you neeed
to
> and plenty of information you can handle..
>
>   BTW. anybody here looking for a set of BRIDGESTONE POTENZA RE950's.
> 245/50/16?
> They will fit on the stock rim and will not rub.. They only ahve about 400
> miles on them and no uneven tread wear. List price for these tires are
> 169.00 a piece i believe but I am selling mine for $120.00 a piece. These
> tires are the best tire I have put on my Stealth so far.. Now I know there
> are better ones out but for the cost you cannot beat these tires.
>
> Now you may ask if these tires are so good why am I selling them??? Well I
> am putting my stock ones my car and garaging it for modifications and
future
> plans. I do not want the tires to sit like they are going 2. So I am
> offering somebody the chance to purchase them,, after the car back on the
> road i will buy another set. Any takers interested please e-mail me
> privately so that this orignal Post does not go off track.. thanks
>
> Jerry B. 92 Stealth ES  & 93 Stealth RT/TT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
> To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fastmax <fastmax@cox.net>
> > To: Todd D.Shelton <tds@brightok.net>; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc
> >
> >
> > >Welcome to the money pit of car handling --- as you mentioned
> > >I run quite a bit of negative camber [ -1½º ]. Handling is great but
> > >so is the wear, luckily my racing wears the outside edge and the
> > >excess camber wears the inside edge.
> > >
> > >Your options are:
> > >
> > >Go racing  [ my personal favorite ]
> > >
> > >don't lower the car as much [ this is for wusses ]
> > >
> > >Set it the best you can and live with it [ my tires are about $170
each ]
> > >
> > >Elongate the adjustment holes in the rear --- it's not brain surgery
but
> > >not for the faint of heart either. The trick is to find a shop who is
> > >willing to take a chance on modifying the cars suspension.
> > >
> > >Look in the 3SI.com archives --- somebody is making an adjustable
> > >rear control arm. It's on my list also but he beat me to it. I'm not
> > >sure as to progress or cost.
> > >
> > >        Jim Berry
> > >=============================================
> >
> > So it looks like unless/until Paul is able
> > to build the new rear control arm then
> > we're pretty much SOL unless we can
> > find a shop that can cut/hack/drill a solution?
> >
> > I'll try and contact Paul and see if that is going
> > to come about before resorting to the other.
> >
> > Until then I may have to keep on driving fast so
> > the outer wear matches the inner ....  that should
> > work out for a while but hopefully the upper control
> > arm will be the end all.
> >
> > Drive fast and rotate often - maybe that will
> > buy some time until the control arms are ready?
> > (fingers crossed)
> >
> > I just hope the rear is not much worse than now since
> > I'm planning on going lower still.  The Eibachs are
> > barely noticable as far as drop ....
> >
> > - tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:46:04 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

Todd, if you have some tools, it is fairly easy to do the elongation of
the bolt holes.  A friend and myself did this on my non-turbo, but it is
the same procedure for the VR4...  I can send you instructions if you'd
like...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Todd D.Shelton
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:53 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

- -----Original Message-----
From: fastmax <fastmax@cox.net>
To: Todd D.Shelton <tds@brightok.net>; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber - lowering with Teins, GC etc

>Welcome to the money pit of car handling --- as you mentioned
>I run quite a bit of negative camber [ -1½º ]. Handling is great but
>so is the wear, luckily my racing wears the outside edge and the
>excess camber wears the inside edge.
>
>Your options are:
>
>Go racing  [ my personal favorite ]
>
>don't lower the car as much [ this is for wusses ]
>
>Set it the best you can and live with it [ my tires are about $170 each
]
>
>Elongate the adjustment holes in the rear --- it's not brain surgery
but
>not for the faint of heart either. The trick is to find a shop who is
>willing to take a chance on modifying the cars suspension.
>
>Look in the 3SI.com archives --- somebody is making an adjustable
>rear control arm. It's on my list also but he beat me to it. I'm not
>sure as to progress or cost.
>
>        Jim Berry
>=============================================

So it looks like unless/until Paul is able
to build the new rear control arm then
we're pretty much SOL unless we can
find a shop that can cut/hack/drill a solution?

I'll try and contact Paul and see if that is going
to come about before resorting to the other.

Until then I may have to keep on driving fast so
the outer wear matches the inner ....  that should
work out for a while but hopefully the upper control
arm will be the end all.

Drive fast and rotate often - maybe that will
buy some time until the control arms are ready?
(fingers crossed)

I just hope the rear is not much worse than now since
I'm planning on going lower still.  The Eibachs are
barely noticable as far as drop ....

- - tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:59:46 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: gforce ecu upgrade only

> Why not just get the AEM stand alone?  For $1340 it does it
> ALL.  Fuel
> curves, boost, timing, OBDII diagnostics!  Sounds like a much better
> deal than the G-Force to me.

That thing has been "coming soon" for a while now.  Tough to choose it until
it is reality.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:24:29 -0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S: Average powertrain loss in non-AWD cars

After heading to the Chicago Auto show yesterday (will be posting pics soon
for anyone interested), I was wondering how much HP is lost in a non-AWD
with all of the "beefy" HP listings for some of the cars that are out there.
If our AWD cars have anywhere between 18-22% as most believe, what do we
need to keep up to other cars on the road.  If a car is listed at 400hp,
what is it putting down to the road?  I'm not looking for an exact number
just an educated guess.

Thanks.

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:32:45 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Average powertrain loss in non-AWD cars

My extensive dyno experience has taught me this......

NON AWD cars
Manual tranny = 15% loss
Auto tranny = 25% loss

I'm guessing that an AWD is about the same as a 2WD automatic.

Wayne

At 09:24 AM 2/15/02 -0600, Black, Dave (ICT) wrote:
>I was wondering how much HP is lost in a non-AWD
>with all of the "beefy" HP listings for some of the cars that are out there.
>If our AWD cars have anywhere between 18-22% as most believe, what do we
>need to keep up to other cars on the road.  If a car is listed at 400hp,
>what is it putting down to the road?  I'm not looking for an exact number
>just an educated guess.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dave 95VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:55:31 -0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject: Team3S: struts

Eric- check with Sunrise Mitsubishi 1-800-244-0047 on struts. I picked up
front ones for my 92 r/t for $145 each. Also timing belt $108 when Dodge
dealer wanted $210.
Mike S r/t tt Wash St

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #754
***************************************