Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, February 5
2002 Volume 01 : Number
745
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:14:19 -0500
From: "Jim Figgins" <
abrman@one.net>
Subject: Team3S:
tweeter
LONG TIME WATCHER 1ST TIME
POSTER
Enjoy the list very much. This is first time ive needed any help
as my 94 gt
sl has been trouble free but just somehow blew the pass side
tweeter and
need to know how to access it. Dont want to tear up the dash and
am hoping
there is an easy way to replace it. Anyone able to advise and /or
have an
unused one they'd be willing to
sell?
Thanks,
Jim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:25:01
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
tweeter
Just get a flat blade screwdriver under the edge of the speaker
and gently
pry up on it. It'll pop out with little effort. The
connector is just a
spring clip plastic setup.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991
Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jim Figgins
Sent: Monday,
February 04, 2002 12:14 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: tweeter
LONG TIME WATCHER 1ST TIME
POSTER
Enjoy the list very much. This is first time ive needed any help
as my 94 gt
sl has been trouble free but just somehow blew the pass side
tweeter and
need to know how to access it. Dont want to tear up the dash and
am hoping
there is an easy way to replace it. Anyone able to advise and /or
have an
unused one they'd be willing to
sell?
Thanks,
Jim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:35:27
-0500
From: "Bill vp" <
billvp@highstream.net>
Subject:
Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
Here is the link to
the item:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54318Are
these necessary for a car with 15G's, 550 cc, VPC&AFC, Walbro
pump?
The post is a bit long ;)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:48:25
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: safe to run 10 psi on 15G's w/ stock fuel?
>> Isn't
15psi, 15psi regardless of what turbos you are running?
Isn't this an old
discussion!
The correct answer is yes and no. First, the question is
ill-posed.
Both the pressure and *temperature* of the air are important
in
determining the air mass entering the plenum (in order for the ECM
to
determine the correct fuel *mass* to mix with it) and the
performance
of the air-fuel mixture (chances for detonation increase with
charge
air temp). Second, the engine processes are dynamic not
static.
In the strictest *static* sense, at a given displacement, RPM,
and
volumetric efficiency, if the air pressure and temperature are
the
same, it makes no difference at all what turbo is used.
However,
in the real, *dynamic* sense, the transient response
(ability to change wheel
rotation speeds), compressor efficiencies
(how much extra heat the compressor
adds to the air), and turbine
effects (such as back pressure) of different
turbos are rarely
identical. The result of comparing two different turbos
with boost
set at say 15 psi (and all other engine-related items being
the
same), can be a noticeable difference in real engine performance.
The big difference (as far as fuel goes) between stock
TD04-09B
turbos and any other larger turbo is the amount of flow,
and
therefore pressure, the turbo is capable of at the highest RPM.
The
stock turbos may only support 12-14 psi at 6000-7000 RPM, while
any
larger turbo can easily support 16-18 psi at 6000-7000 RPM. So
for
boost controllers that cannot be set based on RPM, setting a 15
psi
limit means 15 psi at low and mid RPM with the stock turbos and
only
12-14 psi boost at highest RPM. For 13G and larger turbos, a 15
psi
boost setting will result in 15 psi being held to redline
(requiring
more fuel and other considerations).
I think the AVC-R
allows max boost to be set based on RPM and maybe
even gear.
More
info:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius5/j5-2-3s-compflowmaps.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 04, 2002 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: safe to run 10 psi on
15G's w/ stock fuel?
<snip>
Isn't 15psi, 15psi regardless of what
turbos you are running? Why do
360 injectors work for 9b turbos at
15psi and not with 15G turbos?
<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:08:42
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: tweeter
I have a stock set out of my 93 R/T you can have for
30.00 shipped
they are in good working order.
- ---- Original Message
----
From:
jeffv@1nce.comTo:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st,
abrman@one.netSubject: RE: Team3S:
tweeter
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:25:01 -0500
>Just get a flat blade
screwdriver under the edge of the speaker and
>gently
>pry up on
it. It'll pop out with little effort. The connector is
>just
a
>spring clip plastic setup.
>
>Jeff VanOrsdal
>1991
Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>jeffv@1nce.com
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On
>Behalf
>Of Jim
Figgins
>Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:14 PM
>To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: tweeter
>
>
>LONG TIME
WATCHER 1ST TIME POSTER
>
>Enjoy the
list very much. This is first time ive needed any help as
>my 94
gt
>sl has been trouble free but just somehow blew the pass side tweeter
>and
>need to know how to access it. Dont want to tear up the dash
and am
>hoping
>there is an easy way to replace it. Anyone able to
advise and /or
>have an
>unused one they'd be willing to
sell?
>Thanks,
>Jim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:17:13
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
One variable
more in the system ? You will be able to increase or decrease
the richness of
the mixture in open loop but not in closed loop as the ECU
adjusts. It is not
clear if due to the learning also in off loop the map is
slightly adjusted so
the ECU may compensating. I'd install a larger FPR if
larger fuel lines are
used with big AN fittings.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch>
>
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54318>
>
Are these necessary for a car with 15G's, 550 cc, VPC&AFC, Walbro
pump?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:54:09
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
> One
variable more in the system ? You will be able to
> increase or decrease
the richness of the mixture in
> open loop but not in closed loop as the
ECU adjusts.
> It is not clear if due to the learning also in off
>
loop the map is slightly adjusted so the ECU may
> compensating. I'd
install a larger FPR if larger
> fuel lines are used with big AN
fittings.
I think this piece would be much better if it had a fuel
pressure gauge port
on it so you could easily get a fuel pressure reading at
the end of the
rails, where it is most important and relevent.
I'm
still convinced that the stock fuel rail "loop" from front to back rail
is
too restrictive for an upgraded motor. The two cylinders closest to
the
timing belt side of the motor should be getting the most air since they
are
at the end of the intake plenum, but it seems like most people with
piston
failures are blowing up the two cylinders that are last to get fed by
the
rails. Coincidence?
I feel that correcting this design
deficiency is more important than doing a
new FPR.
Roger, I noticed
this on your website:
http://www.rtec.ch/upgrade_project.html...where
you mention that you ported the inside of the fuel rails, and
there's a
picture of the stock feed loop on the end of your rails. Did you
really
make the rather large fuel rail interior even bigger and retain the
little
tiny straw piping to push fuel into the rear rail? The inner
diameter
of the fuel rails is about 1/2" or so, and the OUTER diamater of
the loop
tubing is only 1/4" at best.
Please explain why you felt the rails
themselves to be a restriction but not
the loop.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:17:56
-0500
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Oddly Enough?!
After the WORST EVER dealer experience (long post
includes them wrecking my
car) I got my car back from the 60k mile tune up
and the aftermarket catz
fog lights and the cruise control do not work. I am
more concerned w/ the
cruise control as I use it always. I am very leary of
taking my car back to
this dealership as they seem more than a little shady.
I have already
checked the fuses and that didnt seem to be the problem. If
someone could
give me a hint it would be great not to have to take my car
back to Dennis
Mitsubishi in Columbus Ohio. If anyone wants the whole story
I can mail it
off the list, anyhow I need help!
PS: The cruise
control light dose come on like it is activated same w/ the
fog lights, only
neither one
works.
Thanks!!!,
Tom
92VR4
TNT3KGT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:22:18
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
>> but it
seems like most people with piston failures are
>> blowing up the two
cylinders that are last to get fed by
>> the rails.
Coincidence?
Yes. It could be. I spent a lot of time watching the two A/F
meters
in my '92 TT as I drove from Coloardo to the Norwalk, OH
gathering
and back. Perhaps 95% of the time, the rear A/F showed richer
than
the front in open loop mode (medium to heavy acceleration) and
was
the first to go open when leaving closed loop mode. Granted the
O2
reading is an average of the three cylinders, and it only take
one
cylinder to go a bit too lean for just a second to invite
disaster.
Still, the A/F readings suggest that for whatever reason, on
average,
the rear bank is getting more fuel than the front, at least on
my
engine.
Maybe the ECM is programmed that way? Or perhaps it is
the
"supercharger effect". You know, a supercharger accelerates the
air,
which then builds up pressure as it piles up against the
closed
valves (very unlike a turbo). In our fuel system, the FPR is
the
blockage that actually creates the pressure. The fuel pump
just
"accelerates" the gasoline. Just an idea.
Have any other members
noted the behaviour of their two A/F meters?
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
"team3/S" <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 04, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: adjustable billet
bolt on fuel reg - needed?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:24:21
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Oddly Enough?!
Until you call and complain (politely) theres
little we can do to solve
the _real_ problem.
You have to at least try
to hold them accountable.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Tom Terflinger
wrote:
> After the WORST EVER dealer experience (long post includes
them wrecking my
> car) I got my car back from the 60k mile tune up and
the aftermarket catz
> fog lights and the cruise control do not work. I
am more concerned w/ the
> cruise control as I use it always. I am very
leary of taking my car back to
> this dealership as they seem more than a
little shady. I have already
> checked the fuses and that didnt seem to
be the problem. If someone could
> give me a hint it would be great not
to have to take my car back to Dennis
> Mitsubishi in Columbus Ohio. If
anyone wants the whole story I can mail it
> off the list, anyhow I need
help!
>
> PS: The cruise control light dose come on like it is
activated same w/ the
> fog lights, only neither one works.
>
> Thanks!!!,
>
> Tom
> 92VR4
> TNT3KGT
-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:12:20
-0600
From: S J Cowan <
sjc0u812@juno.com>
Subject: Team3S:
OT: True?
I received this from Summit a few moments
ago...
________________________________________________________
Dear
Summit Racing
Customer,
Your hobby is in danger! Proposed U.S.
government legislation, U.S.
Senate Bill S.1766, would allocate federal funds
for state scrappage
programs
for vehicles more than 15 years
old. In the process, it could
threaten the
very existence of our hobby
by:
*Destroying
1960s and 70s era
musclecars
*Scrapping
1980s performance vehicles like Mustangs, Camaros,
and
Corvettes
*Eliminating many
non-performance vehicles which provide an
invaluable parts
source
Take
a stand for your rights--and your hobby--by letting your
U.S.
Senator
know how this bill will
directly affect you. Log onto our website at
http://www.SummitRacing.com for a copy of
our Legislator Letter,
which you
can print,
sign, and mail to your Senator. Then, go to
http://www.enjoythedrive.com/san for
a complete list of legislator
names and
addresses, plus
additional information on U.S. Senate Bill
S.1766.
Act now--your hobby may depend on it!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:46:01
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: OT: True?
Yes, its true. Daschle is the
sponsor. Go figure.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, S J Cowan
wrote:
> I received this from Summit a few moments ago...
>
________________________________________________________
> Dear Summit
Racing
Customer,
>
> Your hobby is in danger! Proposed U.S. government legislation,
U.S.
> Senate Bill S.1766, would allocate federal funds for state
scrappage
> programs
> for vehicles more than 15 years
old. In the process, it could
> threaten the
> very existence of our hobby
by:
>
> *Destroying 1960s and
70s era
musclecars
>
> *Scrapping 1980s performance vehicles like Mustangs, Camaros,
and
> Corvettes
>
> *Eliminating
many non-performance vehicles which provide an
> invaluable
parts
>
source
>
> Take a stand for
your rights--and your hobby--by letting your U.S.
>
Senator
> know how this bill will directly
affect you. Log onto our website at
>
http://www.SummitRacing.com for a copy of
our Legislator Letter,
> which you
>
can print, sign, and mail to your Senator. Then, go to
>
http://www.enjoythedrive.com/san for
a complete list of legislator
> names and
>
addresses, plus additional information on U.S. Senate Bill
S.1766.
>
>
> Act now--your hobby may
depend on it!
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:20:21
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: safe to run 10 psi on 15G's w/ stock fuel?
I think the
problem here is not the inability of boost controllers to keep
15 psi boost
at high rpm but the inability of stock turbos to supply 15 psi
at high rpm.
Even lucky AVC-R owners cannot make their stock turbos produce
15 psi to the
red line, but luckier 13G+ owners can keep 15 psi throughout
the whole
powerband with any decent boost controller. The stock turbos can
keep only
9-12 psi of boost to redline according to various sources
regardless of the
boost setting. Therefore, stock turbos set at 15 psi are
not even close in
performance to bigger turbos that are set at the same 15
psi. An old topic
indeed.
If a larger turbo is set to run at 9-12 psi at the redline (and
maybe 15
psi at midrange rpm if you have a AVC-R) then the RPM-boost
relationship
will be the same as stock, the air flow will be ALMOST the same,
and the
fuel demand and the injectors duty cycles will be almost the same as
well.
This would allow to keep the stock injectors.
But as Jeff
pointed out, the intake air temperature might be slightly lower
with larger
turbos even running at the same boost. This would result in
higher air flow,
so leave a 1-2 psi safety margin on your boost setting.
But even if you
overboost, and your injector duty cycles would try to
exceed 100%, all you
will get is not detonation but a fuel cut, which you
will notice right away.
So I think it is pretty safe to run larger turbos
at stock boost setting. I
think 10 psi to the red line is a good number.
Philip
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The
stock turbos may only support 12-14 psi at 6000-7000 RPM, while any
larger
turbo can easily support 16-18 psi at 6000-7000 RPM. So for
boost controllers
that cannot be set based on RPM, setting a 15 psi
limit means 15 psi at low
and mid RPM with the stock turbos and only
12-14 psi boost at highest RPM.
For 13G and larger turbos, a 15 psi
boost setting will result in 15 psi being
held to redline (requiring
more fuel and other
considerations).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:19:24
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
OT: True?
California has had a plan like that for some time --- the
California
smog people have a bounty program where if you give up an
old
car with high pollution levels they give you $1500 or so. It has
to be
a running vehicle and they scrap
it
Jim
Berry
====================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "S J Cowan" <
sjc0u812@juno.com>
| I received
this from Summit a few moments ago...
|
________________________________________________________
| Dear Summit Racing
Customer,
|
| Your hobby is in
danger! Proposed U.S. government legislation, U.S.
| Senate Bill S.1766,
would allocate federal funds for state scrappage
| programs
|
for vehicles more than 15 years old. In the process, it could
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:44:27
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: OT: True?
Look here: section 803 (page 152)
http://energy.senate.gov/legislation&docs/pdf/107-1/bingaman_bill/s.1766.pdfIt's
a VOLUNTARY program whereby people with older cars can turn them in to
the
state government and be paid some token amount (and a credit towards a
new
"fuel efficient" vehicle). The government will scrap the old
vehicle
using federally-provided funds to pay for the scrapping
process.
It'll limit the availability of parts(that might pose a
problem), and
there's the political aspect of government
intrusion/limitations(save it for
another list), but that's all.
They're not going to take your car away and they're not going to destroy
any
car that the owner wants to keep, no matter how much a dinosaur it
is.
- --Erik
> -----Original Message-----
> From: S J
Cowan [mailto:sjc0u812@juno.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:12
AM
> To:
stealth@starnet.net;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: OT: True?
>
>
> I received this from Summit
a few moments ago...
>
________________________________________________________
> Dear Summit
Racing
Customer,
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:07:51
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: True?
I dont think parts availability is a
problem..were talking a reawlly thin
layer of the population that has a
vehicle that cant be kept smog-aware
enough to keep ownership of. Also
consider that sector of the population
and the vehicles they drive as
well. Theyre not 3000GTs.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Gross, Erik
wrote:
> Look here: section 803 (page 152)
>
>
http://energy.senate.gov/legislation&docs/pdf/107-1/bingaman_bill/s.1766.pdf>
> It's a VOLUNTARY program whereby people with older cars can turn them
in to
> the state government and be paid some token amount (and a credit
towards a
> new "fuel efficient" vehicle). The government will scrap
the old vehicle
> using federally-provided funds to pay for the scrapping
process.
>
> It'll limit the availability of parts(that
might pose a problem), and
> there's the political aspect of government
intrusion/limitations(save it for
> another list), but that's all.
>
> They're not going to take your car away and they're not going
to destroy any
> car that the owner wants to keep, no matter how much a
dinosaur it is.
>
> --Erik
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:00:46
-0700
From: Michael Crisfield <
mcrisfield@ftmcdowell.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: True?
SEC. 803. ASSISTANCE FOR STATE PROGRAMS TO
RETIRE
FUEL-INEFFICIENT MOTOR VEHICLES. 5
(a) ESTABLISHMENT.-The Secretary
shall establish
a program, to be known as the ''National Motor Vehicle
Efficiency Improvement Program,'' under which the Secretary
shall provide
grants to States to operate programs
to offer owners of passenger
automobiles and light-duty
trucks manufactured in model years more than 15
years
prior to the fiscal year in which appropriations are made
under
subsection (d) to provide financial incentives to
scrap such automobiles and
to replace them with automobiles
with higher fuel efficiency.
"(7)
provides, in addition to the payment under paragraph (6), an
additional
credit that may be
redeemed by the owner of the turned-in
passenger automobile or light-duty
truck at the time of
purchase of new
fuel-efficient automobile."
I don't see anything about smog control in
the text above - only higher fuel
efficiency. I guess
if I had kept
my old 84 Mitsu Mighty Max pickup I could maybe get some cash
towards a new
mirage but
if I wanted a new truck I doubt I'd find one that met their
"fuel
efficiency" standards. It seems to me
that the current
domination of SUVs that get 14-18 mpg is more troubling
than cars 15 years or
older
that have a tendency of "retiring" themselves.
Definitely
nothing mandatory and I doubt you'll see any "running" 3SIs being
scrapped
through this program
when eligible in another 4 years (wow that's scary - my
91 is already 11
years old)!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Monday, February 04,
2002 3:08 PM
To: Gross, Erik
Cc: 'S J Cowan';
stealth@starnet.net;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: OT: True?
I dont think parts availability is a problem..were
talking a reawlly thin
layer of the population that has a vehicle that cant
be kept smog-aware
enough to keep ownership of. Also consider that
sector of the population
and the vehicles they drive as well. Theyre
not 3000GTs.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Gross, Erik wrote:
> Look
here: section 803 (page 152)
>
>
http://energy.senate.gov/legislation&docs/pdf/107-1/bingaman_bill/s.1766.pdf>
> It's a VOLUNTARY program whereby people with older cars can turn them
in
to
> the state government and be paid some token amount (and a
credit towards a
> new "fuel efficient" vehicle). The government
will scrap the old vehicle
> using federally-provided funds to pay for the
scrapping process.
- ---
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:44:32
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S:
thermostat
FWIW ---- the thermostat went out on my 93 TT yesterday so I
embarked on
a quest to find a new thermostat --- ye Gods, the great Satan
wanted $60 US.
Who in the hell are these people and why do they hate me
?!?!?!?
Several auto parts outfits didn't show a replacement but I found
one in a local
shop --- it looks identical to the stock unit down to the spot
welds --- price,
$17.
The moral of the story is --- don't use satan,
look around.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:59:20
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: thermostat
The Toyota crowd has learnt the hard way..use
Toyota thermostats.
YMMV with Mitsu and non-mitsu parts.
On Mon, 4
Feb 2002, fastmax wrote:
> FWIW ---- the thermostat went out on my 93
TT yesterday so I embarked on
> a quest to find a new thermostat --- ye
Gods, the great Satan wanted $60 US.
> Who in the hell are these people
and why do they hate me ?!?!?!?
>
> Several auto parts outfits
didn't show a replacement but I found one in a local
> shop --- it looks
identical to the stock unit down to the spot welds --- price,
>
$17.
>
> The moral of the story is --- don't use satan, look
around.
>
> Jim
Berry
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:11:02
-0600
From: fred martinez <
frekiy@mac.com>
Subject: Team3S: sorry..a
lack of info on my xmision
My sincerest apoligies, I have an automatic
transmission with about
170k on it before I was allowed to own it.
Unknown service record
before I was it's caretaker but seemes to be mid to
good service.
I'm almost at my 180k service and may push it up some to go
ahead and
make shure all is well. I know fluids have been changed but
not
which ones, I'm assuming only oil and coolant, but hopefully I'm not
on the factory fluid.
thanks again for your consideration of my
problem
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:55:54
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
thermostat
I'll agree to that statement in many cases but there are many
aftermarket
parts that are superior to or as good as the stock item ----
They had a
generic version of the thermostat for $7 that I wouldn't have
purchased
but the replacement appeared to be a duplicate to the
original.
I would have no problem buying and aftermarket electric fan or
the
pneumatic lifts for the hood or hatch. In addition I buy forged pistons
and aftermarket rings --- the list goes on --- I would have even
bought
the stock thermostat 'IF' the price had been reasonable. Three
or four
times is too damn
much.
Jim
Berry
=============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
|
The Toyota crowd has learnt the hard way..use Toyota
thermostats.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:14:06
-0700
From: "Thomas Jeys" <
tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch Fluid
Reservoir
Where the heck is the clutch fluid reservoir? Does it
take it's brake fluid
strait out of the brake fluid reservoir? Please
tell me it does, I spent 15
minutes looking for the clutch reservoir and
couldn't find it. I'm hoping
it's not in some strange ungodly place
that required double-jointed fingers
and arms to reach. Of course now that
I've sent this e-mail to the list, I
hope it's not right out in plain sight
either.
T.J.
1992 3000GT VR-4
tj@jeys.net*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:14:22
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Clutch Fluid Reservoir
Well, assuming you don't have an automatic, it's
on the drivers side squished
into the corner where the firewall and strut
tower come together. About
all you can see is the
cap.
Jim
Berry
===========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Thomas Jeys" <
tj@jeys.net>
To: "Team 3s" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 04, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: Team3S: Clutch Fluid
Reservoir
| Where the heck is the clutch fluid reservoir? Does it
take it's brake fluid
| strait out of the brake fluid reservoir? Please
tell me it does, I spent 15
| minutes looking for the clutch reservoir and
couldn't find it. I'm hoping
| it's not in some strange ungodly place
that required double-jointed fingers
| and arms to reach. Of course now that
I've sent this e-mail to the list, I
| hope it's not right out in plain sight
either.
|
| T.J.
| 1992 3000GT VR-4
|
tj@jeys.net*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:43:25
-0800
From: ARMIN MEIER <
guetch@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Re:Team
3S: Alternator problems 94 Stealth turbo
Hello,
Sorry for the
delay. I want to thank Hans Ertle, Doman Rachell and Marc
Jonathan for their
prompt response.
It turned out to be an interesting exercise. My prediction
of regulator
failure may not be true however we did change the smos IC but it
did not
work properly. The next diagnosis found two diodes shorted. The test
by the
book did not reveal this problem.
So, the key is the stator wiring
has to be disconnected from the diode assy.
to check diodes.
At the same
time I found this awesome web site for
alternator
parts:http//www.transpo-usa.com/. They have all the parts like the
repair IC
part # TRI 285. Or the complete regulator # IM285
Also the
manual never mentioned the removal of the radiator fan driver side
in order
to remove the alternator.
The alt. mounting bolt facing the fire wall is a
real challenge to get back
in. I found loosing all the cast iron bracket
bolts helps to get it started.
Here is an Idea for the weight concerned to
make an aluminum bracket.
After the final tally the reg. cost Can.$ 30.00 and
the diode replacement $
40.00. To a total of $ 70.00 Not a bad repair
price.
The replacement price new is CAN $ 365.00
Happy
alternating!!
Regards
Armin
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:01:11
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Remanufactured Tranny
Here is a quote from Kelley Blue
Book. Does this NJ plant have a branch
in North Carolina or are they
being built originally by someone else
(maybe Mitsu?)?
"All VR-4s come
with a German-designed and North Carolina-built Getrag
6-speed manual
gearbox."
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Sam Shelat
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002
18:20
I was told factory replacement are all rebuilt by CRS in New
Jersey. I
personally know an employee of the shop, and he told me there
is a very
regimented testing set-up where each tranny goes through a
thorough
check-up
before its released. He said a tell-tale sign that
one came from their
shop
is a grey primer paint used after they are
rebuilt.
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:01:02
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 1995 Stealth TT gross weight
Lucky you for getting to weigh at a
scale. 'Round here the DOT folks
frown at that but maybe the truck
stops are nicer about it. In fact,
you might get booted off the DOT
scales unless you call ahead as I'm
sure they don't want to do any more work
than they have to.
Reminder though that this is in no means mathematical
accurate as those
scales are made to weigh trucks that go 40,000, 50,000, and
80,000
pounds. Something weighing 3,800 is going to have a huge +/-
error
factor (like trying to weigh a paper clip on a bathroom scale
for
example).
It does help when typing the weight into a G-Tech (I
might have more
than 290 stock hp now ... kewl) but I would still go by the
printed
manuals, door jam stickers, NADA books, etc. The NADA site
shows 3,781
pounds for my car (same as Dave Black's site) and 3,792 for a
1995
Stealth R/T TT (but only 3,671 for a 1996 which makes sense as I
thought
those were the lightest of all the cars).
Does anyone have
some of those Longacre accurate corner weight scales
that are meant to
measure +/- 0.2% (1,400 pound per wheel max, etc.
scales)?
Mohler? Nobody but a nice race setup will own them but I do
not have
access to them yet.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Philip V Glazatov
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002
17:29
Subject: Team3S: 1995 Stealth TT gross weight
Hi
everyone,
Yesterday, on my way to Jeff W's working gathering (I will let
Jeff or
Joe
K cover the gathering), I stopped by a certified CAT scale at
exit 20 on
I-275. This is less than a mile from Jeff's house. I weighed my
car with
me sitting in it. That was the scale lady's fault, but this it
okay
because I weighed myself as well.
The weight of the car with a
full tank of gas and me sitting in it
together with all my stuff was 3880
lbs. (2260 fr, 1620 rr). I weigh 178
lbs but with my winter clothing and a
stuffed schoolbag I was 210 lbs as
I
weighed myself when I got
home.
I will do the math for you by substracting my own weight. Here is
goes:
A
stock 1995 R/T TT with a full tank of gas and no
driver/passengers
weighs
3670 lbs (2155 fr, 1515 rr).
This confirms
that a 1995 Stealth weighs the same as a 1996 Stealth (if
not 1 pound less).
There must be errors on both Team3S and Dave Black's
websites that show a 95
R/T TT weight of 3792 lbs, which is much more
than
the 96 R/T TT weight
and even more than a 95 VR-4, which does not make
sense considering a smaller
number of options that it has.
Now I have the accurate numbers to use
with my G-Tech and Road Dyno,
which
is, BTW, should be coming next
week!
Philip
95 Red R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:06:16
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Clutch Fluid Reservoir
And it is a push-on cap. I ripped
the skin off three fingers trying to
twist it off one day. My friend
looked at it with a half-eaten Pastrami
sandwich in his mitts and muttered
with a half-full mouth, "Just pwy da
cap oafth" which translates to "Pry the
cap off silly and don't waste 30
minutes on it."
Maybe it was just
stuck on there from two or three years from someone
checking it last.
Mine pried off. Maybe the threads were stripped.
Confirmation on
this? Is it like the washer tank cap and pulls/flips
off or
twists?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
dschilberg@pobox.com-
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002
22:14
Well, assuming you don't have an automatic, it's on the
drivers side
squished
into the corner where the firewall and strut
tower come together. About
all you can see is the
cap.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:15:29
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Clutch Fluid Reservoir
The clutch and brake reservoir both just pull off
--- I too spent 5 minutes
trying to unscrew that damn
lid.
Jim
Berry
==================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
| Maybe
it was just stuck on there from two or three years from someone
| checking it
last. Mine pried off. Maybe the threads were stripped.
|
Confirmation on this? Is it like the washer tank cap and pulls/flips
|
off or twists?
|
| --Flash!
| 1995 VR-4
|
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:45:25
-0800 (PST)
From: Frank Chen <
jeep1978@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Pics from my engine
Hope you guys can give me an idea of what
happened
with my engine. Those are cylinder wall pics. Don't
mind the
surface rust.
http://www.groundzeroperformance.com/Frank/=====
-
-Frank-
"JEEPers"
EMERGENCY EMAIL: <
2017479867@mobile.att.net>
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:55:20
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 15g Fitment
So nobody knows what the shaft diameter is on a 15g,
or 13g wheel???
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:02:59
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
I have to disagree
with this.
Once you replace the FPR with an aftermarket adjustable unit, the
ECU no
longer controls the pressure, your adjusted setting does. Bottom line
is,
the more fuel pressure you have in the system, the more fuel gets
through
the injectors while they are open, regardless of the size of the
plumbing.
Wayne
At 07:17 PM 2/4/02 +0100, Roger Gerl
wrote:
>You will be able to increase or decrease
>the richness of
the mixture in open loop but not in closed loop as the ECU
>adjusts. It is
not clear if due to the learning also in off loop the map is
>slightly
adjusted so the ECU may compensating. I'd install a larger FPR if
>larger
fuel lines are used with big AN fittings.
>
>Roger
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:20:55
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 60k and fuel filter
Does anyone know if the fuel filter is
replaced as part of the standard
60k tune-up?
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:45:49
-0500
From: "Aamer" <
aamer@thepentagon.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 60k and fuel filter
I don't think the manual mentions it
specifically, but from what I've seen
in posts from other owners, most people
usually do change it with their 60K
maintenance. I changed mine during this
time also.
Aamer Abbas
'94 3000GT (DOHC -- Naturally
Aspirated)
email:
aamer@thepentagon.comfax: (707)
982-8817 [add +1 country code if faxing from outside the
United
States]
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren
Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: "'Team
3s'" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:20 AM
Subject: Team3S: 60k and fuel
filter
> Does anyone know if the fuel filter is replaced as part of
the standard
> 60k tune-up?
>
> --Flash!
> 1995
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:53:19
+1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Pics from my engine
> Hope you guys can give me an idea of
what happened
> with my engine. Those are cylinder wall pics.
Don't
> mind the surface rust.
It looks to me like it's been run
with water instead of coolant in the
cooling system. You didn't blow a head
gasket did you?
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 21:00:45
-0900
From: "Charles J. Williams" <
cwilliam@gci.net>
Subject: FW: Team3S:
RE: Preventative Maintenance on Suspension
I appreciate the info. I
knew that there were enough people out there with
cars over 100,000 miles
that they would have some suggestions. I realize
that a lot of the
conversation on this board has to do with turbos but there
is a lot more to
our cars than that.
Any other helpful suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks again.
Charles
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
jacomj@aur.alcatel.com
[mailto:jacomj@aur.alcatel.com]On Behalf Of
Marc Jonathan Jacobs
Sent:
Monday, February 04, 2002 7:31 AM
To: Charles J. Williams
Subject: Team3S:
RE: Preventative Maintenance on Suspension
I have never seen any
preventative maintenence as far as "replacement"
parts. But you should
CHECK many things.
Shocks - check for leaks, Push down on corner of car -
it should rebound
and settle in less than 3 bounces.
Rubber Bushings -
check for cracks, or chunks missing.
CV boots - check for tears, or
deteriorating rubber.
Axle bearings - check for excessive play, or grinding
on rotation.
Brake lines - check for leaks, crimps, bulge (in rubber
part).
Wiring for ABS - check for frays, or insulation dammage, or
kinks.
<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 01:04:01
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k and fuel filter
Well I didn't do the 60k but when they did
they replaced the (leaking)
water pump since I thought it was a stuck
open/closed thermostat. Good
thing they found the water pump problem
though as I wasn't going to have
the 50k done for another 10k or so ... got
it done a little earlier than
most.
And I was going to replace the
battery and see the fuel filter is
underneath it. Is this like air
filters and there are better ones to
use than stock? I have not seen
many posts on the fuel filter as much
as the fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel
rails, injectors, etc. and was
wondering what the people were using out there
for applications where
you push the car (road racing, etc.) and like a bit
cleaner fuel through
the filter.
I use 94 octane or 93 at the least
around the East so I'm hoping all the
injectors, etc. are pretty clean to
begin with. No sense filtering the
fuel to 100 microns if the injectors
are clogged with crud.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Aamer
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002
00:46
I don't think the manual mentions it specifically, but from
what I've
seen
in posts from other owners, most people usually do change
it with their
60K
maintenance. I changed mine during this time
also.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:19:29
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
>I have to
disagree with this.
>Once you replace the FPR with an aftermarket
adjustable unit, the ECU no
>longer controls the
pressure
Unfortunately this is not correct. The ECU never does control
the fuel
pressure ! It controls the opening time of the injectors and if
fuel
pressure is lower the injectors spray less when the same pressure works
against them on the port side. The ECU may recognize this due to the closed
loop operation and then adjusts the duty cycle, i.e. keeping the injectors
open longer so the same amount of fuel is sprayed as with the higher fuel
pressure. It compensates for the lower fuel pressure.
>, your
adjusted setting does. Bottom line is, the more fuel pressure you
>have
in the system, the more fuel gets through the injectors while they
>are
open, regardless of the size of the plumbing.
Yes, but what when the
injectors are closing earlier ? You will see that
the ECU decreases injector
duty cycle to compensate for the higher amount
in closed loop that sets also
an offset variable for the open loop values
of the fuel
maps.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 06:08:08
-0500 (EST)
From: Philip V Glazatov <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 1995 Stealth TT gross weight
Darren, I appreciate your point
about accuracy. My goal was to get a rough
estimate of my car's weight and it
just happened that this estimate came
within one pound of the published
weight of a 1996 Stealth TT. The two
cars are virtually identical. All the
differences that I was able to find
would not even be responsible for a 5 lbs
weight difference. A 1996
Stealth has a larger wing, OBDII and two extra O2
sensors, body-color
roof, no extra power outlet in the center console, no
rear storage straps
(ask Joe Gonsowski what those are). Therefore a 1 lbs
makes a lot of sense
to me. Much more sense than a couple of references that
list the 1995
Stealth to to be 121 lbs heavier than the 96 Stealth and even
11 lbs
heavier than the more option-loaded 95 VR-4.
Philip
On
Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Darren Schilberg wrote:
> Lucky you for getting to
weigh at a scale. 'Round here the DOT folks
> frown at that but
maybe the truck stops are nicer about it. In fact,
> you might get
booted off the DOT scales unless you call ahead as I'm
> sure they don't
want to do any more work than they have to.
>
> Reminder though that
this is in no means mathematical accurate as those
> scales are made to
weigh trucks that go 40,000, 50,000, and 80,000
> pounds. Something
weighing 3,800 is going to have a huge +/- error
> factor (like trying to
weigh a paper clip on a bathroom scale for
> example).
>
> It
does help when typing the weight into a G-Tech (I might have more
> than
290 stock hp now ... kewl) but I would still go by the printed
> manuals,
door jam stickers, NADA books, etc. The NADA site shows 3,781
>
pounds for my car (same as Dave Black's site) and 3,792 for a 1995
>
Stealth R/T TT (but only 3,671 for a 1996 which makes sense as I thought
>
those were the lightest of all the cars).
>
> Does anyone have some
of those Longacre accurate corner weight scales
> that are meant to
measure +/- 0.2% (1,400 pound per wheel max, etc.
> scales)?
Mohler? Nobody but a nice race setup will own them but I do
> not
have access to them yet.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995
VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip V
Glazatov
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 17:29
> Subject: Team3S:
1995 Stealth TT gross weight
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
Yesterday, on my way to Jeff W's working gathering (I will let Jeff or
>
Joe
> K cover the gathering), I stopped by a certified CAT scale at exit
20 on
> I-275. This is less than a mile from Jeff's house. I weighed my
car with
> me sitting in it. That was the scale lady's fault, but this it
okay
> because I weighed myself as well.
>
> The weight of the
car with a full tank of gas and me sitting in it
> together with all my
stuff was 3880 lbs. (2260 fr, 1620 rr). I weigh 178
> lbs but with my
winter clothing and a stuffed schoolbag I was 210 lbs as
> I
>
weighed myself when I got home.
>
> I will do the math for you by
substracting my own weight. Here is goes:
> A
> stock 1995 R/T TT
with a full tank of gas and no driver/passengers
> weighs
> 3670 lbs
(2155 fr, 1515 rr).
>
> This confirms that a 1995 Stealth weighs the
same as a 1996 Stealth (if
> not 1 pound less). There must be errors on
both Team3S and Dave Black's
> websites that show a 95 R/T TT weight of
3792 lbs, which is much more
> than
> the 96 R/T TT weight and even
more than a 95 VR-4, which does not make
> sense considering a smaller
number of options that it has.
>
> Now I have the accurate numbers
to use with my G-Tech and Road Dyno,
> which
> is, BTW, should be
coming next week!
>
> Philip
> 95 Red R/T TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 13:27:04
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Pics from my engine
Ouch ! Maybe water entered the combustion
chamber and stayed there for a
longer period, ruined the rings that ruined
the walls. Also the water
jackets are corroded too .... I wonder how the
rods and bearings look like.
IMHO, I'd throw this block away if it looks
like that as it looks like it
was open for a long period. Good luck
!!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 20:45 04.02.2002 -0800,
Frank Chen wrote:
>Hope you guys can give me an idea of what
happened
>with my engine. Those are cylinder wall pics. Don't
>mind
the surface
rust.
>
>http://www.groundzeroperformance.com/Frank/
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 07:22:34
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
At 11:19 AM 2/5/02
+0100, Roger Gerl wrote:
>>I have to disagree with
this.
>>Once you replace the FPR with an aftermarket adjustable unit,
the ECU no
>>longer controls the pressure
>
>Unfortunately
this is not correct. The ECU never does control the fuel
>pressure
!
Then why is the ECU connected to a fuel pressure regulator control
solenoid
which controls how much vacuum the regulator sees, which is
directly
related to the amount of fuel pressure it
produces?????
>It controls the opening time of the injectors and if
fuel pressure is
>lower the injectors spray less when the same pressure
works against them
>on the port side. The ECU may recognize this due to
the closed loop
>operation and then adjusts the duty cycle, i.e. keeping
the injectors open
>longer so the same amount of fuel is sprayed as with
the higher fuel
>pressure. It compensates for the lower fuel
pressure.
I'm not going to get into another argument with you Roger,
because you know
best. All i know is, I've seen the direct result of
increasing fuel
pressure as read with a $20,000 Air/fuel analyzer, and
increasing the
pressure above the factory setting DOES richen the
mixture.........
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 06:47:32
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
>> Roger
Gerl wrote:
>> The ECU never does control the fuel pressure !
Actually it does sometimes. On our turbo models, the ECM reduces
fuel
pressure at idle using the FP solenoid. Presumably, an
aftermarket
FPR would respond similar to the stock one if vacuum hose routing
is
not changed. But, yes, as far as the FP increasing with boost,
that
happens mechanically (inside the FPR) without influence by the
ECM.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To:
"team3/S" <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: adjustable billet
bolt on fuel reg - needed?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:58:59
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: adjustable billet bolt on fuel reg - needed?
>Then why is
the ECU connected to a fuel pressure regulator control
>solenoid which
controls how much vacuum the regulator sees, which is
>directly related
to the amount of fuel pressure it produces?????
This is for cold startup
and idle control where it is needed to temporary
change the FP (only one
stage)
>I'm not going to get into another argument with you Roger,
because you
>know best. All i know is, I've seen the direct result of
increasing fuel
>pressure as read with a $20,000 Air/fuel analyzer, and
increasing the
>pressure above the factory setting DOES richen the
mixture.........
Only at WOT until the ECU relearned but I'm sure when
increasing the fuel
pressure the ECU will never fully compensate the offset
for the fuel map
and therefore you see an enrichment. At the end increasing
the fuel
pressure allover the rpm and boost band is simply not accurate
enough. You
will actually loose performance when running too rich and it
also may harm
the injectors when they run on a higher pressure differential
than
specified. During closed loop the ECU may be able to
compensate.
A raising rate FPR would be an idea as used in many
aftermarket turbo
systems. I'd use such an AFPR only when it acts faster
than the stock one
but set to the same fuel pressure. Larger injectors are
needed anyways for
high power applications and therefore such an AFPR can be
used with an NPT
adapter for the FPR Gauge.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 07:23:07
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: knock
sensor
I'm going to try this one again since there was so little interest
last
time ---- anybody with a 94 and up turbo car should care.
The
following page form Jeff Lucius's copy of the Technical Information
Manual
describes the knock sensor as being a resonance type of sensor, and
as such,
generates a voltage spike at a predesigned engine block resonance
frequency
---- IT IS NOT A SIMPLE MICROPHONE !!!!
The ECU does not do any signal
analysis, it simply looks at the voltage
output of the knock sensor, assigns
a knock count to the voltage level and
controls timing to reduce the knock
value.
If this information is true, then a knock indicator for the 2ng
gen cars would
be a very simple design ---- maybe as simple as an analog volt
meter.
http://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_14-09.gif
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:29:41
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: Preventative Maintenance on Suspension
> I appreciate
the info. I knew that there were enough people
> out there with
cars over 100,000 miles that they would have
> some suggestions. I
realize that a lot of the conversation
> on this board has to do with
turbos but there is a lot more
> to our cars than that.
>
>
Any other helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
If you really want to
bring the suspension back to spec, then replace all
the bushings, including
the swaybar bushings. Replace the struts. Replace
the
springs. Check the lower ball joints for excessive play.
Essentially
replace all the components that move and wear.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:32:11
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 60k and fuel filter
> And I was going to replace the
battery and see the fuel
> filter is underneath it. Is this like
air filters and there
> are better ones to use than stock?
I
haven't seen any aftermarket fuel filters that bolt right up. Most of
the
"racing" fuel filters use AN fittings, so you need to replace most (if
not
all) of your fuel lines with AN lines and fittings.
In your
situation, I'd recommend the stock filter. Use flare wrenches to
get
the fittings off or there's a high probability of stripping
the
fittings. The top banjo bolt isn't as bad as the lower
fitting.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:39:35
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: knock sensor
> If this information is true, then a knock
indicator for the
> 2ng gen cars would be a very simple design ---- maybe
as
> simple as an analog volt meter.
John Basol hooked up
something similar to his knock sensor. It worked great
for a few days
and then destroyed the knock sensor. Not good. His was
an
electronic circuit that looked for sharp peaks in the signal.
An
analog voltmeter probably isn't going to react quick enough to catch
those
peaks. Hooking up an osciloscope would seem to be the first step to
be
able to characterize what sort of voltage curve/amplitude is present
when
knock occurs.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:46:57
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Pics from my engine
> Hope you guys can give me an idea of
what happened
> with my engine. Those are cylinder wall pics.
Don't
> mind the surface rust.
How long have you had this thing
apart? All the rust and corrosion is a bad
sign. If you just
cracked it open, I'd say you probably blew a head gasket
and coolant found
its way into the cylinders and sat there. If it is rusty
from sitting
around "open" for a long time - er, ouch. The rust is going to
have to
be removed from the inside of the block.
The scoring on the cylinder
walls could be from broken rings. What did the
pistons look like when
you pulled them out?
Its going to need to be stripped down to the bare
block and hot-tanked and
bored at a minimum. I'd probably magnaflux the
block as well to check for
cracks. You really need the block to look
like this before reassembly:
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/pistonsinstalled.jpgOuch...
I know how you feel!
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:48:50
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: knock sensor
Unfortunately the information is not fully
correct as the ECU has an analog
filter board inside controlled by the CPU
for different RPM as well as
ignition timing. To filter out false knock and
to determine the knock count
the filter must be designed. Maybe parting out
a defect ECU will help to
find out.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 07:23 05.02.2002 -0800,
fastmax wrote:
>I'm going to try this one again since there was so little
interest last
>time ---- anybody with a 94 and up turbo car should
care.
>
>The following page form Jeff Lucius's copy of the Technical
Information
>Manual describes the knock sensor as being a resonance type
of sensor, and
>as such, generates a voltage spike at a predesigned engine
block resonance
>frequency ---- IT IS NOT A SIMPLE MICROPHONE
!!!!
>
>The ECU does not do any signal analysis, it simply looks at
the voltage
>output of the knock sensor, assigns a knock count to the
voltage level and
>controls timing to reduce the knock
value.
>
>If this information is true, then a knock indicator for
the 2ng gen cars would
>be a very simple design ---- maybe as simple as an
analog volt
meter.
>
>http://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_14-09.gif
>
>
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 07:52:35
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
knock sensor
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt"
<
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
|
John Basol hooked up something similar to his knock sensor. It worked
great
| for a few days and then destroyed the knock sensor. Not
good. His was an
| electronic circuit that looked for sharp peaks in
the signal.
| An analog voltmeter probably isn't going to react
quick enough to catch
| those peaks. Hooking up an osciloscope would
seem to be the first step to
| be able to characterize what sort of voltage
curve/amplitude is present when
| knock occurs.
A good voltmeter
should have a input impedance in the range of 10 meg or
more --- that should
be more than enough to protect the knock sensor. As
to time available, I
notice that most of the TMO logs have counts that are
in the range of a
second or more --- maybe too fast for a digital but an
analog meter should
detect it. The mechanical meter movement also acts
as a filter noise
spikes.
As I mentioned in the first go around an oscilloscope and a dyno
would be
the best method --- I have neither, I don't even have a good analog
meter
all I've got is digital.
What information is available on John's
experiment ???
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:16:12
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: knock sensor
Actually a "piezoelectric element" IS a simple
microphone. Although the
"vibration plate" may be the piece that
seperates the stock "microphone"
from an aftermarket
one.
Christopher
> The following page form Jeff Lucius's copy of
the Technical Information
> Manual describes the knock sensor as being a
resonance type of sensor, and
> as such, generates a voltage spike at a
predesigned engine block resonance
> frequency ---- IT IS NOT A SIMPLE
MICROPHONE !!!!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:21:41
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: knock sensor
I have two ECU's, one is open and the pin at the
connector leads to the one
vertical board identified as the knock sensor
circuit by a DSM guy who did
more research on this. I can't find the link
anymore.
On some pages they speak about the knock measure starting a
specific time
before ignition and then record until a time after ignition to
get the
correct amount. The faster RPM the tighter this window must be. The
sensor
information given is correct but not much of use.
The fast
spikes are what should be seen and not filtered out of course. It
is not
known if the harmonics should be considered as well.
There is a page with
recorded sounds from the knock sensor you can analyse.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch At 08:03
05.02.2002 -0800, fastmax wrote:
>Well that's part of the information we
need --- where did you get this
>information about a filter board --- the
tech manual doesn't refer to it at
>all. If true then, the description of
the knock sensor in the manual is
>totally
>incorrect [ not an
impossible situation ] --- RPM info shouldn't be required
>if they
're looking at the natural resonance frequency of the
block.
>
>They're saying the block rings bell when detonation occurs
and we can tell
>by the design what the frequency
is.
>
> Jim
Berry
>===========================================
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:22:41
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: knock sensor
> A good voltmeter should have a input
impedance in the range
> of 10 meg or more --- that should be more than
enough to
> protect the knock sensor.
Input impedence on John's
device was 4100 ohms. He tried to match the input
impedence of the ECU
but forgot to realize that a parallel circuit reduces
impedence (resistance)
which is maybe why the knock sensor fried. I guess
the point is to just
be careful in that it is possible to cause damage to
the knock
sensor.
> As to time available, I notice that most of the TMO
>
logs have counts that are in the range of a second or more
> --- maybe
too fast for a digital but an analog meter should
> detect it. The
mechanical meter movement also acts as a
> filter noise spikes.
An analog meter probably won't detect it. Consider the rates at
which
things happen in a motor. At 6000 RPM we are seeing 100 rotations
per
second, and 150 combustion events. A knock will be there and gone
in .01
seconds. I don't think an analog voltmeter is going to react
quick enough
to even give any hint that something is wrong.
Note that
the "knock counts/sums" that the TMO logger is outputting is just
a number in
the ECU that doesn't necessarily correspond to individual
knock
events.
As far as the analog meter filtering noise spikes -
that's exactly what you
DON'T want to happen. The noise spikes are the
indicators of knock. You
need to see those.
> What
information is available on John's experiment ???
He essentially made a
device that would take input from the knock sensor,
then filter a range
between 9000hz and 11000hz, with a 12db/octave slope
crossover on either
side. He then used a glass breakage sensor to look for
transient spikes
and outputed voltage to an LED when transients were
detected. It did*
work - until the knock sensor was destroyed. That's info
direct from
John (he works at the same place I do).
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:28:12
-0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 15g Fitment
Howdy...
I had my 15Gs rebuilt by TEC in
May of 1999. While I don't know if either of
these technicians are still with
TEC, they sent me JPEGs of my turbos and
provided lots of specs. Give them a
try.
mfranke@turboengineering.comjexum@tuboengineering.comLooking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/custom K&N intake,
bored and polished
throttle body, TEC 15G turbos, RC 560cc injectors, HKS
fuel pump, ARC2/MAF
fuel controller, Split Second A/F meter, GReddy PRofec A
boost controller,
Apex EGT & boost gauges, GReddy turbo timer, HKS SBOV,
custom intercoolers,
Odyssey dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK
double platinum plugs
gapped at .032", ACT 2800 lb pressure plate, Broward
six puck racing disc,
Centerforce throwout bearing, ATR downpipe and test
pipe, GReddy catback
exhaust, Stillen cross-drilled rotors, Porterfield R4
race pads, SS brake
lines, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs, Michelin SX
MXX3 Pilots)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
[mailto:whietala@prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 8:55 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: 15g Fitment
So nobody knows what the shaft diameter is on a
15g, or 13g wheel???
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:32:47
-0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Exhaust Shop in Chicago area?
A friend of mine is looking to have some
exhaust work done on his car, some
of which may include header
work.
Does anyone know of a decent exhaust shop in the Chicago area?
(other than
Midas, Meineke, etc.)
TIA
Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:45:31
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
knock sensor
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
| I
have two ECU's, one is open and the pin at the connector leads to the one
|
vertical board identified as the knock sensor circuit by a DSM guy who did
|
more research on this. I can't find the link anymore.
It may be a simple
analog to digital converter ??? Do the DSM guys have
the same type of sensor
???
===============================================
| On some pages
they speak about the knock measure starting a specific time
| before
ignition and then record until a time after ignition to get the
| correct
amount. The faster RPM the tighter this window must be. The sensor
|
information given is correct but not much of use.
Some pages of what ---
the tech manual or the shop manual ??? Is there more
information elsewhere
???
=====================================================
| The
fast spikes are what should be seen and not filtered out of course. It
| is
not known if the harmonics should be considered as well.
You're not
interested in one time events --- when you reach detonation levels
it should
be continuous until you change conditions. The TMO logs show
levels if knock
in the range of seconds, not
milliseconds.
===============================================
| There
is a page with recorded sounds from the knock sensor you can analyse.
I
looked at thet info, and as I mentioned before, he's doing a
complex
acoustical analysis --- ' IF ' the tech manual has the correct info
the problem is
much simpler. He did an analysis on a audio signal, he didn't
look at it with
an oscilliscope for voltage levels [ I don't think
].
Jim
Berry
====================================================
| Roger
|
93'3000GT TT
|
www.rtec.ch|
| At 08:03 05.02.2002 -0800, fastmax wrote:
| >Well that's
part of the information we need --- where did you get this
| >information
about a filter board --- the tech manual doesn't refer to it at
| >all. If
true then, the description of the knock sensor in the manual is
|
>totally
| >incorrect [ not an impossible situation ] --- RPM
info shouldn't be required
| >if they 're looking at the natural resonance
frequency of the block.
| >
| >They're saying the block rings bell
when detonation occurs and we can tell
| >by the design what the frequency
is.
| >
| > Jim
Berry
| >===========================================
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:03:05
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
knock sensor
My feeling is you don't particularly care about millisecond
duration events,
they may be real or perhaps false but they are transient.
Real knock is a
permanent condition based on engine load and other
conditions at the time.
To detect the transient conditions you need peak hold
type of equipment,
that could of course be done but for now I think most folk
would settle for
just a detector.
Did John post info on his
experiment, and if so, where would I search
???
Jim
Berry
==================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
|
An analog meter probably won't detect it. Consider the rates at which
|
things happen in a motor. At 6000 RPM we are seeing 100 rotations per
|
second, and 150 combustion events. A knock will be there and gone in
.01
| seconds. I don't think an analog voltmeter is going to react
quick enough
| to even give any hint that something is wrong.
|
| Note
that the "knock counts/sums" that the TMO logger is outputting is just
| a
number in the ECU that doesn't necessarily correspond to individual knock
|
events.
|
| As far as the analog meter filtering noise spikes - that's
exactly what you
| DON'T want to happen. The noise spikes are the
indicators of knock. You
| need to see those.
|
| > What
information is available on John's experiment ???
|
| He essentially made
a device that would take input from the knock sensor,
| then filter a range
between 9000hz and 11000hz, with a 12db/octave slope
| crossover on either
side. He then used a glass breakage sensor to look for
| transient
spikes and outputed voltage to an LED when transients were
| detected.
It did* work - until the knock sensor was destroyed. That's info
|
direct from John (he works at the same place I do).
|
| -Matt
| '95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#745
***************************************
