Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Friday, January 25 2002   Volume 01 : Number 736




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:11:43 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Team3S: Stupid question about NOx

.  Thing is, Nitrous is not combustible, Oxygen is.

No Oxygen is not combustible, neither is Nitrous oxide, they are both
classified as oxidisers which means they support  combustion.

NOS is chemical supercharging and described as a power adder in your
dragracing rulebook, alongside mechanical supercharging and turbocharging.

Depending on your local rules, ours are based on NDRA rules , you are only
allowed one power adder, therefore if you've got turbos you can't have NOS
as well ( can still cheat though)

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:18:54 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: balancing wheels

 IMHO, this is a cosmetic thing - fancy wheels don't look nice with a hunk
of lead hanging on the rim.  I much prefer to have the flat lead weights
that have adhesive backing on the inside of the wheel, even over than those
hung on the inside rim where there is the possibility of interference with
the strut or caliper.  I think the guys can do a more accurate job of
balancing the wheel when the weight can be positioned anywhere inboard or
ouboard of the center of gravity of the wheel.

Chuck Willis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vp
To: team3/S
Sent: 01/24/2002 5:26 PM
Subject: Team3S: balancing wheels

I have heard that when we get our wheels balanced (I have a '91 R/T tt)
that
we have to make sure that the wheel weights are put on the inside of the
wheel.  Is this correct?  Is this unique to our cars, and if so why?

thanks,
Bill

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:22:05 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors

 Yeah, in five seasons at the track, I've never had this happen at WOT, but
I've also never seen the car boost up to 18 psi.  I think something is wrong
with my DSBC or BOV, becuase neither should allow such excursions.  thanks
for explaining how the ECU can't compensate and just shuts the whole think
down to get some relief!

Chuck

- -----Original Message-----
From: bdtrent
To: Team 3S
Sent: 01/03/1980 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors

Chuck,

I can't speak to your set-up, but if your not running larger injectors
with
a corrasponding MAF correction i.e. an AFC or ARC2, than your pulling in
far
more air than your injector duty cycle can keep up with.  As a last
ditch
effort to avoid leaning out, your ECU simply shuts down your entire fuel
system.  Prior to fuel cut you usually notice a stutter or intermittant
accelleration.  If you continue to ignore the intermittant miss than
your
ECU resorts to completely cutting fuel.  I hadn't experienced these
symptoms
since I was trying to pull to much boost out of my stock injectors prior
to
upgrading my fuel system a number of year ago.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:41:31 -0700
From: "Rick" <rcousar@datawest.net>
Subject: Team3S: Enough about NOx

Please guy enough with the Nos,  this subject has been beat to hell. If
someone wants to blow thier car let them, but lets talk about something
else. By the way does anyone know any good links for blue printing and
balancing engines?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
To: <3sracers@speedtoys.com>; <talon-digest@dsm.org>;
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid question about NOx

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
> > OK, so NOx costs $40 a bottle, but I could run a whole mess of NOx for
the
> > thousands of dollars the other mods cost.
> >
> > What's the downside of running NOx on a road course?
>
> Running out of NOX !!!  Remember, power is addictive.
>
>         Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:15:02 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Enough about NOx

No techie stuff here but Rich already stopped this.  Last email I see
was the one you included which was yesterday at 8 in the morning (Rich
killed it at 14:29 on my machine).  There was one more follow-up for
safety reasons (combustibility) this morning at 00:11 but that was about
the only one since Rich told us to stop already.  So I think we HAVE
killed the topic already ... have YOU killed it yet?

I would check Lucius' webpage for links to what you are looking for.

- --Flash!

P.S. What's wrong with hitting the Delete key anyway?  <smirk>

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 10:42
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Enough about NOx

Please guy enough with the Nos,  this subject has been beat to hell. If
someone wants to blow thier car let them, but lets talk about something
else. By the way does anyone know any good links for blue printing and
balancing engines?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
To: <3sracers@speedtoys.com>; <talon-digest@dsm.org>;
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid question about NOx

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
> > OK, so NOx costs $40 a bottle, but I could run a whole mess of NOx
for
the
> > thousands of dollars the other mods cost.
> >
> > What's the downside of running NOx on a road course?
>
> Running out of NOX !!!  Remember, power is addictive.
>
>         Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:09:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Enough about NOx

No, but lets look at those two terms.

Blueprinting.  This means you build a motor to specs.  Common in Destroit
build cars..coz the tolerances are SO wide.  Factoid:  John Lingenfelter
got started in the performance biz by simply rebuilding new Chevy motors
to tight OEM tolerances...most people saw about a 40Hp gain with nothing
but OEM hardware.  Import cars rarely require blueprinting, as the
tolerances as so incredibly tight in the first place.  make sure you dont
pay for the word 'blueprinting'..coz on your car it just means built
within spec.

Balancing..yes, good for high RPM applications or endurance.  Ask for
4-way balancing on your rods.  Lots of reliability to be gained in good
balancing.

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Rick wrote:

> Please guy enough with the Nos,  this subject has been beat to hell. If
> someone wants to blow thier car let them, but lets talk about something
> else. By the way does anyone know any good links for blue printing and
> balancing engines?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
> To: <3sracers@speedtoys.com>; <talon-digest@dsm.org>;
> <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid question about NOx
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
> >
> > > OK, so NOx costs $40 a bottle, but I could run a whole mess of NOx for
> the
> > > thousands of dollars the other mods cost.
> > >
> > > What's the downside of running NOx on a road course?
> >
> > Running out of NOX !!!  Remember, power is addictive.
> >
> >         Jim Berry

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:38:57 -0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S: Diagnosing knock vs. spark blowout?

I am having a small problem that I am unsure how to diagnose.  I am thinking
the issue is either knock or spark blowout.  How do I differentiate between
the two?

The problem is as follows:
basically I have a somewhat inconsistent problem with losing a lot of power
at about 4500rpm - 5500rpm in 2nd gear.  Sometimes if I hammer it down the
car will get up to 4500-5500rpm and sputter and really lose power.  I have a
K&N FIPK, Apexi S-AVCR @ 1.0 bar and Borla exhaust.  The car appears to
drive fine after the sputtering occurs - unfortunately I've already lost the
race...LOL

From what I have heard, it sounds to me like either knock or spark blowout.
I had the plugs changed and "supposedly" regapped to .034 about 7000 mi ago.
I have not yet changed the plug wires so I think it could also be that.

My question is how I do differentiate between knock and spark blowout?

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:20:59 -0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors

Chuck,

Have you looked for a vacuum leak?  This could account for your overboost.

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 9:22 AM
> To: 'bdtrent '; 'Team 3S '
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors
>
>  Yeah, in five seasons at the track, I've never had this happen at WOT,
> but
> I've also never seen the car boost up to 18 psi.  I think something is
> wrong
> with my DSBC or BOV, becuase neither should allow such excursions.  thanks
> for explaining how the ECU can't compensate and just shuts the whole think
> down to get some relief!
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bdtrent
> To: Team 3S
> Sent: 01/03/1980 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors
>
> Chuck,
>
> I can't speak to your set-up, but if your not running larger injectors
> with
> a corrasponding MAF correction i.e. an AFC or ARC2, than your pulling in
> far
> more air than your injector duty cycle can keep up with.  As a last
> ditch
> effort to avoid leaning out, your ECU simply shuts down your entire fuel
> system.  Prior to fuel cut you usually notice a stutter or intermittant
> accelleration.  If you continue to ignore the intermittant miss than
> your
> ECU resorts to completely cutting fuel.  I hadn't experienced these
> symptoms
> since I was trying to pull to much boost out of my stock injectors prior
> to
> upgrading my fuel system a number of year ago.
>
> Regards,
> DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:56:03 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors

not yet, good thinking.  The line to the Boost gauge is apparently still
intact - maybe there is a leak in the sense line to the DBSC ...
- -----Original Message-----
From: Black, Dave (ICT)
To: 'Willis, Charles E.'
Cc: Team3s (E-mail)
Sent: 01/25/2002 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors

Chuck,

Have you looked for a vacuum leak?  This could account for your
overboost.

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 9:22 AM
> To: 'bdtrent '; 'Team 3S '
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors
>
>  Yeah, in five seasons at the track, I've never had this happen at
WOT,
> but
> I've also never seen the car boost up to 18 psi.  I think something is
> wrong
> with my DSBC or BOV, becuase neither should allow such excursions.
thanks
> for explaining how the ECU can't compensate and just shuts the whole
think
> down to get some relief!
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bdtrent
> To: Team 3S
> Sent: 01/03/1980 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Looking for 550cc Injectors
>
> Chuck,
>
> I can't speak to your set-up, but if your not running larger injectors
> with
> a corrasponding MAF correction i.e. an AFC or ARC2, than your pulling
in
> far
> more air than your injector duty cycle can keep up with.  As a last
> ditch
> effort to avoid leaning out, your ECU simply shuts down your entire
fuel
> system.  Prior to fuel cut you usually notice a stutter or
intermittant
> accelleration.  If you continue to ignore the intermittant miss than
> your
> ECU resorts to completely cutting fuel.  I hadn't experienced these
> symptoms
> since I was trying to pull to much boost out of my stock injectors
prior
> to
> upgrading my fuel system a number of year ago.
>
> Regards,
> DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:46:11 -0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject: Team3S: engine shut down

I need advice. My 92 rt tt Stealth quit at 70mph and will not restart. No
check engine sign or anything. There is good spark and I can hear the fuel
pump working. Iam 50 mile from where I have the work done on my car and any
help to try and find whats wrong would be great. I know it could be many
different reasons, but someone has had this happen and maybe I can fix it
with out having the car towed.
Mike S 92 r/t tt

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:11:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Stephen C. Kempf" <kempfsc@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Speedometer

Here's a question I could use some feedback on. Recently the speedometer
on my 1995 Dodge Stealth ES (dual overhead cam V6). The service manuals
that I bought when I purchased the car say that the speedometer uses an
electronic controller rather than a cable to the engine. However, when I
took the car in for service, the mechanic says that it actually has a
mechanical cable and that's what needs to be replaced.

Can anyone offer any insight about this contradictory information? Did
early 1995s or perhaps late 1994s have a mechanical cable?

Thank you,

Steve Kempf

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Jan 1980 19:17:30 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Diagnosing knock vs. spark blowout?

Dave,

Don't rule out the early stages of fuel cut.  Have you checked your IDC on
your AVC-R?  Your symptoms sound exactly like mine during cold weather with
too much boost.  You will know for sure if your ECU resorts to the next
stage of fuel cut - complete fuel shut off at WOT.  Knock would be far more
subtle and likely to be much worse in 3rd than 2nd.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
To: <stealth@starnet.net>; "Team3s (E-mail)" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: Team3S: Diagnosing knock vs. spark blowout?

I am having a small problem that I am unsure how to diagnose.  I am thinking
the issue is either knock or spark blowout.  How do I differentiate between
the two?

The problem is as follows:
basically I have a somewhat inconsistent problem with losing a lot of power
at about 4500rpm - 5500rpm in 2nd gear.  Sometimes if I hammer it down the
car will get up to 4500-5500rpm and sputter and really lose power.  I have a
K&N FIPK, Apexi S-AVCR @ 1.0 bar and Borla exhaust.  The car appears to
drive fine after the sputtering occurs - unfortunately I've already lost the
race...LOL

From what I have heard, it sounds to me like either knock or spark blowout.
I had the plugs changed and "supposedly" regapped to .034 about 7000 mi ago.
I have not yet changed the plug wires so I think it could also be that.

My question is how I do differentiate between knock and spark blowout?

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:14:08 -0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Timing belt

I found out I may have jumped a tooth on the timing belt. What are the odds
the valves and pistons made contact? Other than a tear down is there a way
to check the timing belt? It hasn't been to long since it was changed.
Mike S 92 r/t tt Wash. St.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:34:58 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt

> I found out I may have jumped a tooth on the timing
> belt. What are the odds the valves and pistons made
> contact? Other than a tear down is there a way to
> check the timing belt? It hasn't been to long since
> it was changed. Mike S 92 r/t tt Wash. St.

If it is only jumped one tooth then it is probably fine.  To determine if it
has jumped, there's a rubber access plug to the crank pulley on the driver's
side wheelwell.  You can turn the crank with a 1/2" socket extension and a
long ratchet.  Turn it clockwise until the little mark on the edge of the
crank pulley lines up with the "0" mark on the timing cover.  Then remove
the two covers on top that protect the timing belt (the two black covers on
the driver's side of the motor).  Each cam gear will have a little dot on
the front of the pulley at about the 2:00 or 10:00 positions (depending on
which cam you are looking at).  The tooth that the mark is on should line up
exactly with a matching indicator mark on the cam covers.

If they line up, you are in good shape.  If not, then the best thing to do
is essentially replace the timing belt and tensioner.  There are pictures
and a how-to here:

http://www.team3s.com/60k.htm

Good luck!

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:08:56 -0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Diagnosing knock vs. spark blowout?

>
>The problem is as follows:
>basically I have a somewhat inconsistent problem with losing a lot of power
>at about 4500rpm - 5500rpm in 2nd gear.  Sometimes if I hammer it down the
>car will get up to 4500-5500rpm and sputter and really lose power.  I have
a
>K&N FIPK, Apexi S-AVCR @ 1.0 bar and Borla exhaust.  The car appears to
>drive fine after the sputtering occurs - unfortunately I've already lost
the
>race...LOL
>
>>From what I have heard, it sounds to me like either knock or spark
blowout.
>I had the plugs changed and "supposedly" regapped to .034 about 7000 mi
ago.
>I have not yet changed the plug wires so I think it could also be that.
>
>My question is how I do differentiate between knock and spark blowout?

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Injector size is not listed but I have hit fuel cut at ~ 1bar with stock
injectors
in colder weather/ambient temps.

With larger 550+ injectors you shouldn't see fuel cut this low -
at least I never have with a VPC.  There have been conditions
which caused knock in this range and the effects were as described.

There's no doubt when datalogging with the TMO ...

- - tds

http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:39:54 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Diagnosing knock vs. spark blowout?

>There's no doubt when datalogging with the TMO ...

Dave has a '95, just like me, so no TMO's for us. But it is possible to use
Apexi SAFC, which shows injector duty cycle. If injector duty cycle
approaches 100% then you have a problem and need to lower boost or install
bigger injectors.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:07:44 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: engine shut down

This is not of much help as hindsight is always 20/10 but for $50 a year
you get AAA and I believe the standard towing distance is 50 miles (or
that might be the Gold package since basic AAA is around $35).  That
would cover the cost of a tow back to where you get the work done.  Plus
you get all sorts of free maps, travel books, etc. from them.  Nice
people even if the wait for a tow is a long time in bad weather.

I do remember someone else on here having the same problem at speed.  My
dad's old Subaru Wagon (pre-AWD on all Subaru cars) was cruising along a
Georgia highway at 60 mph when all the needles except the speedo went to
zero.  I think the only ones there were RPM, Speedo, and Battery but
whatever they were it was like he shut the engine off and pushed in the
clutch and we coasted for a while then pulled over when it stopped.
Result was a timing belt had gone South (pardon the pun).  Not many
Japan/Import shops down in the heart of Georgia.  Got a tow about 100
miles into Savannah and waited a day for the part.

Not sure what else goes at 70mph like that.  Starter doesn't matter.
Alternator won't shut down the car like that (just make radio and lights
get dim).  Fuel pump?  Distributor cap (or whatever our strip thing is
called)?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Cathy
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 16:46
 
I need advice. My 92 rt tt Stealth quit at 70mph and will not restart.
No
check engine sign or anything. There is good spark and I can hear the
fuel
pump working. Iam 50 mile from where I have the work done on my car and
any
help to try and find whats wrong would be great. I know it could be many
different reasons, but someone has had this happen and maybe I can fix
it
with out having the car towed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #736
***************************************