Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, January 21
2002 Volume 01 : Number
732
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:48:38 -0800
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel Rails to -6 Dual Feed?
Does anyone have a part number for
the fitting used to convert the stock
fuel rails to -6? This is
probably a -6 M on one end and a pipe thread on
the other.
Also, is it better to cut of the end of the rail (where the stock
flanges
are) or leave them on and tap into the much larger
opening?
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:42:59
-0500
From: "Bill Miller" <
millebi@kw.igs.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
If I may throw
my 2 cents worth in here. A suggestion for where to plant the switch is down the
left side of the driver's seat underneath where the hatch and gas tank
releases are. If the switch
is small enough (assuming you're going to use a
relay of some sort) it will take a long while to
find the switch and it
should be really easy to hide the wires as well.
If you're wanting to be
really sneaky, you could wire the relay so that "Off" is where the fuel
pump
is working and "On" is where it's disconnected and have it derive it's power
from the
accessory power. This way if the car is powered up (i.e. attempt to
start it) the pump is turned
off (assuming the trigger switch is On), and if
the trigger switch is Off then the pump will stay
on and let the car run.
This also gives you an additional safety net that if one of the wires to
the
relay goes bad the car won't stop running on you while you're driving down the
highway.
The really cool thing here is that there is no extra power
drain on the battery unless someone
attempts to start the car! You could
have this switch disable the clutch switch exactly the same
way so if they
do find the switch they will have to follow both wires to determine what they do
and
how to disable them, AND it would only cost a few dollars and uses low
power wiring. (e.g. 2 relays
from Radio Shack are around $5.00 and a small
switch would be about another $1 and some wire for $3
making it one of the
cheapest disablers around)
Bill
91 TT "Old Red"
On 18 Jan 2002,
at 18:42, MIHAI RAICU wrote:
Date sent:
Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:42:09
-0500
From: MIHAI
RAICU <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stCopies
to:
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com,
fastmax@home.com,
stealthman92@yahoo.com,
damonr@mefas.comSend reply to:
mraicu@wayne.edu> To all who
helped,
>
> Geoff... Advice well taken. The least I can do is
try to
> make it harder for thieves to steal it.
>
> Jim
Berry...after your post and Jeff Luciusā€™, itā€™s obvious I
>
shouldnā€™t run that long of a wire from the trunk to the
> driverā€™s
side.
>
> Jeff Lucius...Thanks for the link to the MFI relay cutoff
> switch webpage. It is exactly what I was looking for. Like
> always, you have the answer (with the appropriate link) right
>
at your fingertips.
>
> Damon...I was thinking along the same lines
you are. My car
> being a 95 VR4 does not have that switch,
however, I can add
> it if I want. Iā€™ll figure out the concealing
part on my
> own. The technical aspects are taken care of since
Jeff
> Lucius gave me that webpage.
>
> -MIHAI-
> 95
Red VR4
Humpty Dumpty was pushed...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:19:19
-0500
From: Jerry Bowling <
scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
If I may
throw in an additional 2 cents on this subjest, I have recently
come into
contact with a vehicle that had a kill switch wired into the rear
defroster.
Working at a mechanics shop I was told how to start this persons
car as to
pull it into my bay.. See how it worked is you had to turn the key
on then
hit the rear defroster 2 times then start the car in 1-2 secs. now
from what
i gather this might be a common thing for kill switches, but you
can use the
same idea but with a different switch.. (i.e. cruise control
switch or
others),, Just a thought in yoru quest for the percect Security of
your
car
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Miller" <
millebi@kw.igs.net>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Cc:
<
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Sent: Sunday,
January 20, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: How to best make the car not
start? (thief proof)
> If I may throw my 2 cents worth in here. A
suggestion for where to plant
the switch is down the
> left side of the
driver's seat underneath where the hatch and gas tank
releases are. If the
switch
> is small enough (assuming you're going to use a relay of some
sort) it
will take a long while to
> find the switch and it should be
really easy to hide the wires as well.
>
> If you're wanting to be
really sneaky, you could wire the relay so that
"Off" is where the
fuel
> pump is working and "On" is where it's disconnected and have it
derive
it's power from the
> accessory power. This way if the car is
powered up (i.e. attempt to start
it) the pump is turned
> off
(assuming the trigger switch is On), and if the trigger switch is Off
then
the pump will stay
> on and let the car run. This also gives you an
additional safety net that
if one of the wires to
> the relay goes bad
the car won't stop running on you while you're driving
down the
highway.
>
> The really cool thing here is that there is no extra
power drain on the
battery unless someone
> attempts to start the car!
You could have this switch disable the clutch
switch exactly the same
>
way so if they do find the switch they will have to follow both wires
to
determine what they do and
> how to disable them, AND it would only
cost a few dollars and uses low
power wiring. (e.g. 2 relays
> from
Radio Shack are around $5.00 and a small switch would be about
another $1 and
some wire for $3
> making it one of the cheapest disablers
around)
>
> Bill
> 91 TT "Old Red"
>
> On 18 Jan
2002, at 18:42, MIHAI RAICU wrote:
>
> Date
sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:42:09 -0500
>
From: MIHAI RAICU
<
mraicu@wayne.edu>
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: How to best make
the car not start? (thief
proof)
>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Copies to:
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com,
fastmax@home.com,
stealthman92@yahoo.com,
>
damonr@mefas.com> Send reply
to:
mraicu@wayne.edu>
>
> To all who helped,
> >
> > Geoff... Advice well
taken. The least I can do is try to
> > make it harder for
thieves to steal it.
> >
> > Jim Berry...after your post and
Jeff Luciusā?T, itā?Ts obvious I
> > shouldnā?Tt run that long of a
wire from the trunk to the
> > driverā?Ts side.
> >
>
> Jeff Lucius...Thanks for the link to the MFI relay cutoff
> >
switch webpage. It is exactly what I was looking for. Like
>
> always, you have the answer (with the appropriate link) right
> >
at your fingertips.
> >
> > Damon...I was thinking along the
same lines you are. My car
> > being a 95 VR4 does not have that
switch, however, I can add
> > it if I want. Iā?Tll figure out
the concealing part on my
> > own. The technical aspects are
taken care of since Jeff
> > Lucius gave me that webpage.
>
>
> > -MIHAI-
> > 95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:40:50
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
That's great
but I don't like the idea of using a switch as a
kill-switch that I use in
daily use (defroster, radio, cruise, etc.). I
don't have Active Exhaust
or Active Suspension so I have two dummy
buttons around the instrument
cluster available, etc. Not sure if
others use buttons already in use
with wipers, rear defrosters, etc. but
I wouldn't want to.
I mean ...
what would happen when driving down the road and you want to
defrost the
rear. Hit the button and your car dies. Not what I would
have in
mind at 70 mph.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jerry Bowling
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002
22:19
If I may throw in an additional 2 cents on this subjest, I
have recently
come into contact with a vehicle that had a kill switch wired
into the
rear
defroster. Working at a mechanics shop I was told how to
start this
persons
car as to pull it into my bay.. See how it worked is
you had to turn the
key
on then hit the rear defroster 2 times then start
the car in 1-2 secs.
now
from what i gather this might be a common thing
for kill switches, but
you
can use the same idea but with a different
switch.. (i.e. cruise control
switch or others),, Just a thought in yoru
quest for the percect
Security of
your car
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:47:15
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fuel Rails to -6 Dual Feed?
I haven't done it yet although it's on my
list [ probably with the billet
regulator that fit's on the rail ]. I assume
I'll just use pipe thread on
the rail side but I have no idea what size yet.
please keep me posted
on what you do.
Below is a link to some pages
of AN fittings ---
http://www.bakerprecision.com/adapinfo.htm
Jim Berry
=============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: Team3S: Fuel Rails to -6 Dual
Feed?
> Does anyone have a part number for the fitting used to
convert the stock
> fuel rails to -6? This is probably a -6 M on one
end and a pipe thread on
> the other.
>
> Also, is it
better to cut of the end of the rail (where the stock flanges
> are) or
leave them on and tap into the much larger opening?
>
>
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:50:36
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
If you can't remember
you put in a kill switch then you're a candidate for
the Darwin awards anyway
[ that's Darwin awards not Darren awards
].
Jim
Berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
>
That's great but I don't like the idea of using a switch as a
>
kill-switch that I use in daily use (defroster, radio, cruise, etc.).
> I mean ... what would happen when driving down the road and you
want to
> defrost the rear. Hit the button and your car dies.
Not what I would
> have in mind at 70 mph.
>
>
--Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Jerry Bowling
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 22:19
>
> If I may throw in an additional 2 cents on this subjest, I have
recently
> come into contact with a vehicle that had a kill switch wired
into the
> rear
> defroster. Working at a mechanics shop I was told
how to start this
> persons
> car as to pull it into my bay.. See
how it worked is you had to turn the
> key
> on then hit the rear
defroster 2 times then start the car in 1-2 secs.
> now
> from what
i gather this might be a common thing for kill switches, but
> you
>
can use the same idea but with a different switch.. (i.e. cruise control
>
switch or others),, Just a thought in yoru quest for the percect
>
Security of
> your car
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 23:06:53
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
I know what the
Darwin awards are. How many of us have someone else
move the car that
is blocking them in a parking lot at a party or warm
up the car early in the
morning before the first cup of coffee when the
brain is still asleep,
etc?
I just don't think it is good practice to put kill switches on
things
that are routinely used in daily use. Just my opinion.
-
--Flash!
Currently under nomination for only two Darwin/Darren
awards
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry
Sent: Sunday,
January 20, 2002 22:51
If you can't remember you put in a kill
switch then you're a candidate
for
the Darwin awards anyway [ that's
Darwin awards not Darren awards
].
Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:29:49
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
I figured you knew what
they are --- it was a joke.
The issue here is that you don't use a common
switch, you
use a switch that you never use anyway --- tour/sport for
example, or in my case the suspension switch which is non
functional
since I have GAB struts. If you're having someone
else move your car you're
going to have to tell them about the
switch anyway. Even sleepy I don't mess
with switches once
I'm under way --- hell I don't even have a radio any
more.
Jim
Berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, January 20, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: How to best make the
car not start? (thief proof)
> I know what the Darwin awards
are. How many of us have someone else
> move the car that is
blocking them in a parking lot at a party or warm
> up the car early in
the morning before the first cup of coffee when the
> brain is still
asleep, etc?
>
> I just don't think it is good practice to put kill
switches on things
> that are routinely used in daily use. Just my
opinion.
>
> --Flash!
> Currently under nomination for only
two Darwin/Darren awards
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Jim Berry
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 22:51
>
> If you can't remember you put in a kill switch then you're a
candidate
> for
> the Darwin awards anyway [ that's Darwin awards
not Darren awards ].
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 00:28:00
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
Just making the
comment since the car that someone moved was a rear
defogger button. I
imagine every car since 1985 has a rear defogger
(maybe not a Yugo or base
model Dodge Colt) and since this person noted
it as such then someone else
will read that archive and think, "Hey.
The rear defogger. I'll use
that too." Just making mention of it,
that's all.
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry
Sent: Sunday,
January 20, 2002 23:30
The issue here is that you don't use a
common switch, you
use a switch that you never use anyway --- tour/sport for
example, or in my case the suspension switch which is non
functional
since I have GAB struts. If you're having someone
else move your car you're
going to have to tell them about the
switch anyway. Even sleepy I don't mess
with switches once
I'm under way --- hell I don't even have a radio any
more.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:36:18
-0800
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: How to best make the car not start? (thief proof)
If you have an
ARC2 Unit, then a couple clicks is all it really takes.
Especially the mid
setting - adjust that one - and any would-be thief could
spend hours
just trying to get the car started. They are going to think you
have
some kill switch in the car and waste too much time looking for it.
Driving
the car would be next to impossible without some serious tuning
abilities
:)
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:51:14
-0500
From: "Mark Elkin" <
markelkin@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: MDP sensor, Need Advise....
Wayne,
I was the original
person with the bad MDP sensor. The only mod I have
is a drop in
K&N filter with everything else stock. I have not replaced
mine yet
but it is located on top of the manifold and is very easy to
get
to. I am going to order the part from Norco or one of the
other
dealers who give us a discount and install it myself.
BTW, how did you reset the ECU? I would like to do that myself
after I
replace the part instead of being charged by Mitsu to reset the
"check
engine" light.
Mark
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Wayne Bonnett
Sent:
Saturday, January 19, 2002 12:25 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@www.speedtoys.com;
stealth@stls.verio.netCc: Wayne A
Bonnett
Subject: Team3S: MDP sensor, Need Advise....
Sensitivity:
Confidential
Ok, here is the deal. My check engine light came
on. Upon having the
local Mitsubishi dealer use his scan tool. It
turns out the reason for
the check engine light is directly related to the
MDP sensor. If I
reset the ECU, the problem goes away for about a week,
then the check
engine light comes back on.
The dealer said it was
because of my "aftermarket intake", which is a
K&N FIPK, which according
to the tech, is suppressing the airflow. They
suggested that I put my
stock intake back in, and the problem should go
away. I have had the
FIPK on since last March, and have had no problems
with anything, except for
sometime last month, the check engine light
comes on.
Has anyone on
the list had problems with the MDP sensor? My guess is
the sensor is
bad, and Mitsu quoted me a price of around $125 for the
part. I could
replace it myself, saving the labor, but before I buy, I
just wanted to run
it by the gurus..... Thank for you help!
Any
thoughts?
Thanks,
Wayne Bonnett
www.WBWebSol.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 07:56:56
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Putting in injectors
I think Kelly Falk, who
attended our Lone Star Region Porsche Club DE last
weekend has done the
injector mod personally and was pleasantly surprised at
how easy it is.
Kelly has also replaced the fuel pump on his '93 Stealth with an
aftermarket
Supra pump. He is supposed to email me
details.
Chuck Willis
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002
4:15 PM
> To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: 3S-Racers: Putting in injectors
>
> I've been sitting on a
set of 560 injectors for more than a year, mainly
> because I couldn't
find anybody who knew how to put them in and deal with
> all the engine
issues involved. I've found a shop that seems to know what
> it's doing,
so I want to go for it.
>
> Question: What is involved with
installing bigger injectors?
>
> All suggestions as to the
installation, recommended AFC, recommended boost
> controller, water
injection, etc would be welcome. I'm sure the guy knows
> what he's doing,
but the collective knowledge of this group is awesome,
> and
> will
be brought to his attention prior to doing the work. Please
remember
> that this is not a drag car, it's an open track car that may
run WOT for
> up
> to 30 minutes at a time on road courses. I
don't wanna burn pistons.
>
> Rich/slow old poop/94
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:40:50
-0600
From: "Dustin Lenz" <
dustin_lenz@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: More Transmission nonsense
Hey all,
To give a little
background up front, I have a 97 VR-4 which I bought in
June 01 with 38k on
it. Soon after the purchase (2-months) I noticed that it
was hard to shift
into 2nd, sometimes felt it grinding, then 3rd soon after.
Side note:
shifting much harder when cold. Had the clutch and flywheel
replaced
with RPS 3, Fidanza aluminum. Still the problem. Had Libertyville
Mitsubishi look at it, they did not acknowledge any problem. I pushed,
got
a District Manager from Mitsubishi to come out. Here's the point:
The
Manager took a test drive, immediately tells me that it's a fluid issue,
recommended GM Goodwrench Syncromesh. Told me that this is the ONLY
fluid
to use, which is why we have these issues with our cars. Valid?
Called some
Mits dealers, and no one recommends Syncromesh. Any
comments guys? I'm
annoyed.
Thanks,
Dustin
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:32:31
-0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Group buy - NRAuto White or EL-Indiglo Gauge Faces
Hi all,
If you
haven't already responded, I've got 5 people interested and I still
need 15
more for the group discount - see original email below!
If you've been
holding off on buying those gauge faces, now is an excellent
time!
LOL
Let me know ASAP.
I am trying to organize a group buy for the
NRAuto (
http://www.nrauto.com)
gauge
faces. They are available in either "white" or "E-L Indiglo".
For
pics, please visit the site above. They are available for all model
years
and for both the Stealth and 3000GT.
The prices are as
follows:
White gauge faces: $115 + $6 shipping
EL-Indiglo faces: $119 + $6
shipping
I need at least 25 people to receive the above prices. If
we get more than
50, the prices drop to $99 each.
If you are
interested, I need the following info (note that I do NOT need,
nor do I want
the credit card number - you will call NRAuto later with your
credit card
number)
1. Billing Name on credit card
2. Billing address on credit
card
3. Billing phone on credit card
4. Year of vehicle
5. Model of
vehicle
6. White or Indoglo gauges?
Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:43:28
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More Transmission nonsense
Some folks swear by it ---- put some in and
see what happens, I doubt
it will correct the problem but if it does your in
good shape. If it
doesn't then start over with the dealer. Is there a
warranty on the car ??
if so the fact you reported the problem while under
warranty should
leave you
covered.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Dustin Lenz <
dustin_lenz@hotmail.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, January 21, 2002 8:40 AM
Subject: Team3S: More Transmission
nonsense
> Hey all,
>
> To give a little background
up front, I have a 97 VR-4 which I bought in
> June 01 with 38k on it.
Soon after the purchase (2-months) I noticed that it
> was hard to shift
into 2nd, sometimes felt it grinding, then 3rd soon after.
>
Side note: shifting much harder when cold. Had the clutch and flywheel
> replaced with RPS 3, Fidanza aluminum. Still the problem.
Had Libertyville
> Mitsubishi look at it, they did not acknowledge any
problem. I pushed, got
> a District Manager from Mitsubishi to come
out. Here's the point: The
> Manager took a test drive, immediately
tells me that it's a fluid issue,
> recommended GM Goodwrench
Syncromesh. Told me that this is the ONLY fluid
> to use, which is
why we have these issues with our cars. Valid? Called some
> Mits
dealers, and no one recommends Syncromesh. Any comments guys? I'm
> annoyed.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
Dustin
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:51:57
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: More Transmission nonsense
You sure it isn't the dreaded 2nd and
3rd gear synchro that is wearing
and giving the grinding noise?
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4 with replaced tranny due to bad 2nd gear synchro
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002
12:43
Some folks swear by it ---- put some in and see what happens,
I doubt
it will correct the problem but if it does your in good shape. If
it
doesn't then start over with the dealer. Is there a warranty on the
car
??
if so the fact you reported the problem while under warranty
should
leave you covered.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:58:38
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
Amsoil Tech response
to my inquiry about which oil to use in my VR-4:
-
-----------------------------------------------
We recommend the use of our
AMSOIL Series 2000 0W30 Severe Service Motor oil
(product code TSO).
This premium motor oil protects better in high
temperatures than do the
higher viscosity conventional and synthetic oils.
Series 2000 retains
excellent fluidity in extremely low temperatures, so it
flows quickly and
reliably to allow easy starting and immediate lubrication
protection.
In turbocharged engines such as this, the recommended drain interval
is
shortened due to the additional heat produced by the turbo. The
turbo
interval is 3 times the manufacturer's recommendations or six
months,
whichever comes first.
-
-----------------------------------------------
For those wanting to see
this particular product description, go here:
http://www.amsoil.com/products/tso.htmlI'm
thinking that I might give this a try and send an oil sample or two off
to be
analyzed...
Before I do that, what else should I ask them about
this oil? IOW, what
holes do you see in the argument for using
0W30? If it truly works like a
0W when cold and thins out no more than
a 30W oil at temperature, this
sounds pretty good AFAIK. Why wouldn't
YOU use Amsoil 0W30 in YOUR car,
assuming you could get it for the same or
less cost as
Mobil1/Syntec/Redline? I'll watch the thread and compile a
list of
questions (I assume there will be many) and send them all back to
Amsoil in
one message. Then I'll post their response when I get
it.
- --Erik
My original inquiry submitted via the Amsoil web
form:
- ---------------------------------------------------
I would
like to know which Amsoil oil (Series 2000, XL, SAE...) and
viscosity you
recommend for my application.
My car:
1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
3.0L Twin-Turbo, Intercooled V6
Turbos are water-cooled and
oil-lubricated
Thermostatically controlled oil-cooler (~25 sq. in.)
38,000
original miles
My car's environment:
Garaged
Typical Winter
Temperature Range: 25-50F
Typical Summer Temperature Range: 50-85F
My Car's Usage:
Not a daily driver
Open-track events (road
courses, 4-5 20min sessions/day)
Autocross Schools/Events
Road Trips
Weekend Driving
My Car's Maintenance:
Meticulous :-)
The
service manual recommends 10W30 or 20W40 for conventional oil, depending
on
the ambient temperature. The original owner ran Castrol Syntec 5W50 in
the
car as of 5,000miles, and I have used that thus far. I know many people
use
high-quality 10W30 (Mobil1, Redline, Amsoil) in their 3000GT VR-4s, so I
was
thinking to switching to that weight, as the 50W seems a little
high.
However, I know that 5W30 provides better start-up protection,
especially
since it's on the cooler side here in western Washington. I want
to make
sure that I have adequate engine and turbo lubrication both at
start-up and
when I'm out running 20-minute sessions on a road course on an
80-90F summer
day. What's the best compromise for me - 5W30, 10W30, or
something else?
Thanks,
- --Erik Gross
-
----------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:09:41
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
Erik,
I ran the
Amsoil Series 2000 0W30 in mine for over 20,000 miles. Starts
great, revs
great, ticks a lot. I have gone to Amsoil 10W30 and the ticking
dramatically
subsided.
I run that 0W30 in my wife's 98 Accord V6 and in my 98 F150
4x4. But in the
VR-4, I just couldn¹t stand the ticking.
Amsoil is my
first choice for lubrication but after trying the Series 2000
0W30, I
personally am not going back to it, even though I live in a very
severe,
wintery climate. Email me if you give it a shot and personally
find
otherwise.
Running Amsoil 75-90 full-synthetic gear lube in the
tranny, transaxle and
rear diff too. I have heard that the Getrag tranny
likes 10W40 Amsoil. I may
give that a shot next time I feel like changing
tranny fluid.
- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR
aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
on 1/21/02 11:58,
Gross, Erik at
erik.gross@intel.com
scribbled:
> Amsoil Tech response to my inquiry about which oil to use
in my VR-4:
> -----------------------------------------------
> We
recommend the use of our AMSOIL Series 2000 0W30 Severe Service Motor
oil
> (product code TSO). This premium motor oil protects better in
high
> temperatures than do the higher viscosity conventional and
synthetic oils.
> Series 2000 retains excellent fluidity in extremely low
temperatures, so it
> flows quickly and reliably to allow easy starting
and immediate lubrication
> protection.
>
> In
turbocharged engines such as this, the recommended drain interval is
>
shortened due to the additional heat produced by the turbo. The
turbo
> interval is 3 times the manufacturer's recommendations or six
months,
> whichever comes first.
>
-----------------------------------------------
>
> For those
wanting to see this particular product description, go here:
>
>
http://www.amsoil.com/products/tso.html>
> I'm thinking that I might give this a try and send an oil sample or two
off
> to be analyzed...
>
> Before I do that, what else
should I ask them about this oil? IOW, what
> holes do you see in
the argument for using 0W30? If it truly works like a
> 0W when cold
and thins out no more than a 30W oil at temperature, this
> sounds pretty
good AFAIK. Why wouldn't YOU use Amsoil 0W30 in YOUR car,
> assuming
you could get it for the same or less cost as
>
Mobil1/Syntec/Redline? I'll watch the thread and compile a list of
>
questions (I assume there will be many) and send them all back to Amsoil
in
> one message. Then I'll post their response when I get
it.
>
> --Erik
>
> My original inquiry submitted via
the Amsoil web form:
>
---------------------------------------------------
>
> I would
like to know which Amsoil oil (Series 2000, XL, SAE...) and
> viscosity
you recommend for my application.
>
> My car:
> 1995
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
> 3.0L Twin-Turbo, Intercooled V6
> Turbos
are water-cooled and oil-lubricated
> Thermostatically controlled
oil-cooler (~25 sq. in.)
> 38,000 original miles
>
> My car's
environment:
> Garaged
> Typical Winter Temperature Range:
25-50F
> Typical Summer Temperature Range: 50-85F
>
> My
Car's Usage:
> Not a daily driver
> Open-track events (road
courses, 4-5 20min sessions/day)
> Autocross Schools/Events
> Road
Trips
> Weekend Driving
>
> My Car's Maintenance:
>
Meticulous :-)
>
> The service manual recommends 10W30 or 20W40
for conventional oil, depending
> on the ambient temperature. The original
owner ran Castrol Syntec 5W50 in
> the car as of 5,000miles, and I have
used that thus far. I know many people
> use high-quality 10W30 (Mobil1,
Redline, Amsoil) in their 3000GT VR-4s, so I
> was thinking to switching
to that weight, as the 50W seems a little high.
> However, I know that
5W30 provides better start-up protection, especially
> since it's on the
cooler side here in western Washington. I want to make
> sure that I have
adequate engine and turbo lubrication both at start-up and
> when I'm out
running 20-minute sessions on a road course on an 80-90F summer
> day.
What's the best compromise for me - 5W30, 10W30, or something else?
>
> Thanks,
> --Erik Gross
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:45:49
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
Erik -- What does this
phrase mean, "In turbocharged engines such as
this, the recommended drain
interval is shortened due to the additional
heat produced by the turbo.
The turbo interval is 3 times the
manufacturer's recommendations
..."?
Does that mean the turbo car's interval is 3 times longer or 3
times
shorter than the recommended changing intervail? Every 1,000
miles or
every 9,000 miles? I got the "or six months - whichever comes
first."
But those of us who put on 12,000+ miles a year that is 1,000 miles
a
month so an oil change every month is what is appears and that will
get
costly (about $25 per change so $300 in oil changes instead of
$100).
If this is true then of course they would suggest that (like the
old
lather, rinse, repeat method to use up more shampoo so you'll buy
more).
Plus, if they want it changed every 1,000 miles then it won't get
broken
down at all and will come out the same color it is going in
as.
Just curious.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and ready for an oil
change
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik
Sent: Monday,
January 21, 2002 13:59
Amsoil Tech response to my inquiry about
which oil to use in my VR-4:
-
-----------------------------------------------
We recommend the use of our
AMSOIL Series 2000 0W30 Severe Service Motor
oil
(product code TSO).
This premium motor oil protects better in high
temperatures than do the
higher viscosity conventional and synthetic
oils.
Series 2000 retains
excellent fluidity in extremely low temperatures, so
it
flows quickly and
reliably to allow easy starting and
immediate
lubrication
protection.
In turbocharged engines
such as this, the recommended drain interval is
shortened due to the
additional heat produced by the turbo. The turbo
interval is 3 times
the manufacturer's recommendations or six months,
whichever comes
first.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:34:19
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: More Transmission nonsense
Just in case you have not figured it
out yet, you have the famous 2nd gear
synchro problem. The symptoms could be
reduced if you use a better gear oil
but the problem will still be there and
the only way to fix it is to
replace the synchros. I suppose the service
manager denied a problem
because your car is still under warranty. In this
case you need to insist
that your car should perform right with the
factory-recommended fluid, and
if it does not, then they need to replace
those synchros for you.
One tricky thing though. If your car is indeed
under warranty, then they
might tell you that you voided it by installing a
performance flywheel and
clutch. I know a guy who lost his factory warranty
on his brand new F-150
because he installed a K&N cone filter. This is
of course an extreme, but I
thought you need to be aware of that. Good
luck.
Philip
At 10:40 AM 01/21/02, Dustin Lenz wrote:
>Hey
all,
>
>To give a little background up front, I have a 97 VR-4 which
I bought in
>June 01 with 38k on it. Soon after the purchase (2-months) I
noticed that
>it was hard to shift into 2nd, sometimes felt it grinding,
then 3rd soon
>after. Side note: shifting much harder when
cold. Had the clutch and
>flywheel replaced with RPS 3, Fidanza
aluminum. Still the problem. Had
>Libertyville Mitsubishi
look at it, they did not acknowledge any
>problem. I pushed, got a
District Manager from Mitsubishi to come
>out. Here's the point:
The Manager took a test drive, immediately tells
>me that it's a fluid
issue, recommended GM Goodwrench Syncromesh. Told me
>that this is
the ONLY fluid to use, which is why we have these issues with
>our
cars. Valid? Called some Mits dealers, and no one recommends
>Syncromesh. Any comments guys? I'm
annoyed.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dustin
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:06:35
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
>
> Erik
-- What does this phrase mean, "In turbocharged engines such as
> this,
the recommended drain interval is shortened due to the additional
> heat
produced by the turbo. The turbo interval is 3 times the
>
manufacturer's recommendations ..."?
I've been tempted a few times to
read the book below (not an endorsement nor
do I have any relation to the
author):
http://www.motor-oil-bible.com/index-test2.htmlI've
also heard that in Europe they don't change their oil as often as in
the
US. Roger is that true? ;)
So maybe what he means is that (for
example) with a normal car you might get
5 times the manufactures
recommendations but since ours is a turbo we only
get 3 times. That's
how I read it anyway.
Christopher
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:24:14
-0000
From: "Twin Turbo GTO" <
twinturbo.gto@btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
From memory, in
the U.K., Mitsu recommend changing the oil every 4,500
miles, or six months,
whichever is sooner.
Simon Jones
'94 GTO
twinturbo.gto@btinternet.comhttp://www.twinturbo.gto.btinternet.co.uk-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
To:
"'Team3S List (E-mail)'" <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, January 21, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil
Brand/Viscosity
>
> I've also heard that in Europe they don't
change their oil as often as in
> the US. Roger is that true?
;)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:50:37
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
crankshaft treatment
All right boys and girls I need a little help here
---- this is the
on-going saga of crankshaft treatments.
There seems
to be much confusion about how, or even whether
the crankshafts on our cars
are treated. Book sez yes, but doesn't
define how. Some machinists say no
they are not --- I just got off
the phone with a guy at Superior automotive
and he said they have
two new cranks for projects they're working on and they
don't look
nitrided to him for whatever that's worth.
My dilemma is
how to proceed with my new/used crank after all
the regular checks and I'm
going to have it treated --- the question
is: nitriding or cryogenic. Gas
nitriding is about $110 and cryo is
$80 so cost is not an issue.
Does
anybody know enough about cryo to make a call and tell me
why. Nitriding
seems pretty straight forward and I've found out
quite a bit about it. I'm
having less luck with information on the
cryo treatment of
crankshafts.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:56:59
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: crankshaft treatment
What is nitriding for? We all know
that cryo-treating rotors is for
wear-resistance. Would this be to
reduce the wear of the crank so it
does not need updated 60k miles from now
or is it to make it harder and
less susceptible to failing, cracking,
etc?
Even under my "hot shoe" road racing I warp and crack
Porterfield
cryo-treated rotors. Thus, I do not endorse it for those
who push their
brakes like I do. Email me privately for details ... not
needed here
... just that Big Reds at full heat in Kansas summer and
non-stop
braking causes to warping cryo-treated rotors. Done it twice
now.
But I don't know how hot a crank gets since it is bathed in
lubricant,
etc. Not as hot as 1,400-F brake pads I imagine so I don't
know the
chart where it shows what temps cryo-treating is useful in and
where
nitriding, pickling, etc. is good for. I can get a hold of one if
I
need to but was just wondering what the ultimate goal of doing that
to
the crank will achieve.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jim Berry
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002
15:51
All right boys and girls I need a little help here ---- this
is the
on-going saga of crankshaft treatments.
There seems to be much
confusion about how, or even whether
the crankshafts on our cars are treated.
Book sez yes, but doesn't
define how. Some machinists say no they are not ---
I just got off
the phone with a guy at Superior automotive and he said they
have
two new cranks for projects they're working on and they don't
look
nitrided to him for whatever that's worth.
My dilemma is how to
proceed with my new/used crank after all
the regular checks and I'm going to
have it treated --- the question
is: nitriding or cryogenic. Gas nitriding is
about $110 and cryo is
$80 so cost is not an issue.
Does anybody know
enough about cryo to make a call and tell me
why. Nitriding seems pretty
straight forward and I've found out
quite a bit about it. I'm having less
luck with information on the
cryo treatment of crankshafts.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:00:47
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: crankshaft treatment
Cryo is pretty simple..in basic terms it
re-crystalized the metal,
creating a stronger metal throughout..than what you
started with.
My GT4 crank as Basko was heat treated, nitrided (it is
blackish),
vibrationally destressed, and then cryo treated before
delivery.
Most of those I didnt pay for at Basko..they were done on the
previous
motor. The crank came out of the SCC MR2 project car as well
as the head.
On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Jim Berry wrote:
> All right
boys and girls I need a little help here ---- this is the
> on-going saga
of crankshaft treatments.
>
> There seems to be much confusion
about how, or even whether
> the crankshafts on our cars are treated. Book
sez yes, but doesn't
> define how. Some machinists say no they are not ---
I just got off
> the phone with a guy at Superior automotive and he said
they have
> two new cranks for projects they're working on and they don't
look
> nitrided to him for whatever that's worth.
>
> My
dilemma is how to proceed with my new/used crank after all
> the regular
checks and I'm going to have it treated --- the question
> is: nitriding
or cryogenic. Gas nitriding is about $110 and cryo is
> $80 so cost is not
an issue.
>
> Does anybody know enough about cryo to make a call
and tell me
> why. Nitriding seems pretty straight forward and I've found
out
> quite a bit about it. I'm having less luck with information on
the
> cryo treatment of crankshafts.
>
> Jim Berry
-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:02:28
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: crankshaft treatment
Its a harened surface layer
treatment..think of teflon on your baking
pans..and you get the idea.
(although its not a slippery treatment)
On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Darren
Schilberg wrote:
> What is nitriding for? We all know that
cryo-treating rotors is for
> wear-resistance. Would this be to
reduce the wear of the crank so it
> does not need updated 60k miles from
now or is it to make it harder and
> less susceptible to failing,
cracking, etc?
>
> Even under my "hot shoe" road racing I warp and
crack Porterfield
> cryo-treated rotors. Thus, I do not endorse it
for those who push their
> brakes like I do. Email me privately for
details ... not needed here
> ... just that Big Reds at full heat in
Kansas summer and non-stop
> braking causes to warping cryo-treated
rotors. Done it twice now.
>
> But I don't know how hot a
crank gets since it is bathed in lubricant,
> etc. Not as hot as
1,400-F brake pads I imagine so I don't know the
> chart where it shows
what temps cryo-treating is useful in and where
> nitriding, pickling,
etc. is good for. I can get a hold of one if I
> need to but was
just wondering what the ultimate goal of doing that to
> the crank will
achieve.
>
> --Flash!
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jim Berry
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002
15:51
>
> All right boys and girls I need a little help here
---- this is the
> on-going saga of crankshaft treatments.
>
> There seems to be much confusion about how, or even whether
> the
crankshafts on our cars are treated. Book sez yes, but doesn't
> define
how. Some machinists say no they are not --- I just got off
> the phone
with a guy at Superior automotive and he said they have
> two new cranks
for projects they're working on and they don't look
> nitrided to him for
whatever that's worth.
>
> My dilemma is how to proceed with my
new/used crank after all
> the regular checks and I'm going to have it
treated --- the question
> is: nitriding or cryogenic. Gas nitriding is
about $110 and cryo is
> $80 so cost is not an issue.
>
>
Does anybody know enough about cryo to make a call and tell me
> why.
Nitriding seems pretty straight forward and I've found out
> quite a bit
about it. I'm having less luck with information on the
> cryo treatment of
crankshafts.
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:22:02
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
crankshaft treatment
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff
Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
> My GT4 crank
as Basko was heat treated, nitrided (it is blackish),
> vibrationally
destressed, and then cryo treated before delivery.
This is one of the
confusing issues --- do you need both or do
they both do the same
thing.
I know that the cryo treatment goes all the way through the
metal
and that the nitriding is only .001 or so deep, but, does the
cryo
also provide surface hardning.
If both are better which do I do
first --- the cost is kind of minimal.
Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:46:46
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: More Transmission nonsense
> In this case you need to insist
that your car should
> perform right with the factory-recommended
fluid,
But BG Synchroshift (and GM's variant, Synchromesh) IS
the
factory-recommended fluid. There was a TSB, (or at least an update
from
Mitsu for the service dept.), about it a while back according to my
local
Satan. Works just fine - tried it in both my VR-4 and my old
FWD.
Redline's in my VR-4 transaxle now (BG SS in the T/C) and I don't
really
notice any significant difference between the Redline and BG as far
as
"feel" and synchro operation.
- --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:52:50
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
> Erik -- What does
this phrase mean, "In turbocharged engines such as
> this, the recommended
drain interval is shortened due to the
> additional
> heat produced
by the turbo. The turbo interval is 3 times the
> manufacturer's
recommendations ..."?
According to Amsoil, with this oil in a "normal"
engine, you can go 35,000
miles or 12 months between draining/replacing the
oil. I think they
recommend changing the filter a little more
often. In turbo cars, you can
go 3x the mfg. recommendation (15,000mi),
apparently because the heat of the
turbos (and turbo engine, I assume) cause
the oil to break down faster than
in "normal cars."
-
--Erik
15,000 miles between oil changes, my @#$... I'll still do it every
3,000 - I
just want good oil, and a good balance of startup/operation
protection :-)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:53:14
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
crankshaft treatment
I got some additional info on cryo treatment that I
thought I should
pass along ---
The cryo treatment does not
significantly raise the surface hardness
or Rockwell number.
On
something like a crankshaft they recommend re-tempering the
crank after
treatment --- the cryo treatment tends to make it brittle
so they heat it to
400ŗ or so and back to room temp for two cycles
to temper it. Probably the
same for rods but I forgot to ask.
It improves the dimensional stability
of the product --- on pistons
they tend to expand more uniformly when
heated.
It does not alter the physical dimensions of the
material.
The hot setup would seem to be prep the crank, nitride it and
then
cryo treat and temper.
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
All right boys and girls I need a little help here ---- this is the
>
on-going saga of crankshaft treatments.
>
> My dilemma is how to
proceed with my new/used crank after all
> the regular checks and I'm
going to have it treated --- the question
> is: nitriding or cryogenic.
Gas nitriding is about $110 and cryo is
> $80 so cost is not an
issue.
>
> Does anybody know enough about cryo to make a call and
tell me
> why. Nitriding seems pretty straight forward and I've found
out
> quite a bit about it. I'm having less luck with information on
the
> cryo treatment of
crankshafts.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:00:15
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
crankshaft treatment
As mentioned nitriding is a surface hardening
process --- it can almost
double the Rockwell number of a
surface.
Pickling was the original method of nitriding --- the parts were
heated
and dipped in a bath of some kind of cyanide salts to provide
surface
hardening --- cyanide is now socially incorrect so that process is
out.
Jim
berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
What is nitriding for?
>so I don't know the
> chart
where it shows what temps cryo-treating is useful in and where
>
nitriding, pickling, etc. is good for. I can get a hold of one if
I
> need to but was just wondering what the ultimate goal of doing that
to
> the crank will achieve.
>
> --Flash!
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:13:46
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: crankshaft treatment
Yes.
Cryo does harden the
surface, but not the same way..it just makes the
metal stronger.
Nitride coatings are still a tougher surface yet.
On Mon, 21 Jan 2002,
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
>
> > My
GT4 crank as Basko was heat treated, nitrided (it is blackish),
> >
vibrationally destressed, and then cryo treated before delivery.
>
>
> This is one of the confusing issues --- do you need both or do
> they both do the same thing.
>
> I know that the cryo
treatment goes all the way through the metal
> and that the nitriding is
only .001 or so deep, but, does the cryo
> also provide surface
hardning.
>
> If both are better which do I do first --- the cost
is kind of minimal.
>
> Jim Berry
-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:13:26
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: crankshaft treatment
I love this stuff you guru's who read
the manuals need to go to
school, Nitride coating as per the machinists hand
book is in a sense
CASE HARDENING the material( I could pull up specks and
all the other
bull it's not going to happen). It is heated up to some 1100
deg then
a gas is used to draw out molecules to herden the surface.....I
have
spent 45 minutes on the phone with a vendor of our shop and you
can
copper plate your crank to mask unwanted areas from
nitride
treatment...so without doubt, if you have the means to grind
and
polish a crank then re-nitride the crank and they make
oversized
bearings for your crank then it would seem obvious to anyone
with
these means that it could be done....if you can get it done
for
90-110 bones like Jim stated earlier then it's a better way to
go....I
think for those who don't know and only guess on this process
and believe
that only in Japan where the crank is casted can do this
work please stop
clouding the list with your guesses of this process
or adding other ideas to
only confuse the issue.
In a retraction of my previous email about
nitride being a plate I
was wrong...I was thinking of something else used for
tooling and had
it mixed up......sorry Jim.
- ---- Original Message
----
From:
fastmax@home.comTo:
dschilberg@pobox.com,
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: crankshaft treatment
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:00:15
-0800
>As mentioned nitriding is a surface hardening process --- it
can
>almost
>double the Rockwell number of a
surface.
>
>Pickling was the original method of nitriding --- the
parts were
>heated
>and dipped in a bath of some kind of cyanide
salts to provide surface
>hardening --- cyanide is now socially incorrect
so that process is
>out.
>
> Jim
berry
>======================================
>----- Original
Message -----
>From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
>To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
>>
What is nitriding for?
>
>
>>so I don't know
the
>> chart where it shows what temps cryo-treating is useful in and
>where
>> nitriding, pickling, etc. is good for. I can get
a hold of one if
>I
>> need to but was just wondering what the
ultimate goal of doing
>that to
>> the crank will
achieve.
>>
>> --Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:34:09
-0800
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
crankshaft treatment
Here's the scoop:
Nitriding is, as already
stated, a surface hardening process. This
creates a compression state
(with greater hardness) on the exterior of
the piece, while the interior
remains unchanged. As a consequence, the
part will remain ductile and
flexible, while having beneficial surface
wear characteristics.
Though the principle is the same between
nitriding and cyano-nitriding (also
called carbo-nitriding), the process
in which they're done is
different. Other similar hardening processes
are induction hardening
(RF induced eddy currents create high temp, then
quickly quenched to lock in
martensitic formation on the exterior- done
on axles and cams), carburizing
(high temp in a carbon or graphite
environment), and flame hardening, which
increases the exterior temp
rapidly then quickly quenches the
device.
Cryotreating works completely different from the previously
mentioned
heat treatments and for completely different results.
Cryotreating is
where the sample is submerged in a bath of usually LN2
(liquid nitrogen)
and the temp is dropped at a specific rate (temp/time
relationship).
The retained austenite (soft steel) that remains in a sample
after
standard hardening needs cryogenic temperatures to be converted into
Martensite (hard steel). This happens throughout the part. As a
result, you have a harder material throughh and through, but harness
leads to increased embrittlement. The thoughness is therefore
compromised.
As far as a crank goes, I'm not sure of the forces
induced on the sample
and which treatment should be performed. Most
cranks are heat treated
or work hardened (like forging) for increased
hardness and greater wear
resistance. Which ones work for cranks,
though, is beyond me.
Jim Berry wrote:
> All right boys and
girls I need a little help here ---- this is the
> on-going saga of
crankshaft treatments.
>
> There seems to be much confusion about
how, or even whether
> the crankshafts on our cars are treated. Book sez
yes, but doesn't
> define how. Some machinists say no they are not --- I
just got off
> the phone with a guy at Superior automotive and he said
they have
> two new cranks for projects they're working on and they don't
look
> nitrided to him for whatever that's worth.
>
> My
dilemma is how to proceed with my new/used crank after all
> the regular
checks and I'm going to have it treated --- the question
> is: nitriding
or cryogenic. Gas nitriding is about $110 and cryo is
> $80 so cost is not
an issue.
>
> Does anybody know enough about cryo to make a call
and tell me
> why. Nitriding seems pretty straight forward and I've found
out
> quite a bit about it. I'm having less luck with information on
the
> cryo treatment of crankshafts.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:27:18
-0800
From: "noble" <
nketo@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Team3S:
Water/Alcohol injection questions
Hi,
To everyone running those
water/alcohol injection systems,
are there any side effects to
using:
1)Straight distilled water
2)Straight rubbing alcohol
3)Mix of
1+2
By side effects, I'm referring to any seals/gaskets/rubber/plastic
damage or
any other eletronic sensors, etc.
Thanks in
advance,
Noble
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:10:47
-0500
From: Jerry Bowling <
scorpman@optonline.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More Transmission nonsense
Hey Dustin,, Guess what I have a
92 stealth and had the same problem,, but I
am a mechanic and it took me 2
weeks to find my problem,, aparently it was a
fluid issue with mine as well
but upon my further investigation I found that
my clutch master cylinder was
leaking,, but it was not under the hood so it
was hard to detect. it was
leaking inside my car under the dash,, now it was
not that much at all but it
was causing me problems with my shifting,, No I
am not saying that this is
your problem but it is something to check out..
it was leaking right where
the shaft comming off the pedal going into the
rubber seal to the Master
cylinder.. Check it out and hope this helps you
out.
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Dustin Lenz" <
dustin_lenz@hotmail.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, January 21, 2002 11:40 AM
Subject: Team3S: More Transmission
nonsense
> Hey all,
>
> To give a little background up
front, I have a 97 VR-4 which I bought in
> June 01 with 38k on it. Soon
after the purchase (2-months) I noticed that
it
> was hard to shift
into 2nd, sometimes felt it grinding, then 3rd
soon
after.
> Side note: shifting much harder when
cold. Had the clutch and flywheel
> replaced with RPS 3, Fidanza
aluminum. Still the problem. Had
Libertyville
> Mitsubishi
look at it, they did not acknowledge any problem. I pushed,
got
>
a District Manager from Mitsubishi to come out. Here's the point:
The
> Manager took a test drive, immediately tells me that it's a fluid
issue,
> recommended GM Goodwrench Syncromesh. Told me that this is
the ONLY fluid
> to use, which is why we have these issues with our
cars. Valid? Called
some
> Mits dealers, and no one recommends
Syncromesh. Any comments guys? I'm
> annoyed.
>
>
Thanks,
>
> Dustin
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:27:28
-0500
From: "Boris" <
BPeguero@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: parts for sale
Hello everybody,
I have some parts for
sale. The following come from a 1991 Stealth R/T
Twin
Turbo.
Exhaust Manifolds $90.00 + shipping
Intake
Manifold $40.00 + shipping
2 Aluminum Heads with cam gears $310 +
shipping
Brand new alternator (on car for 400 miles) $79.00 +
shipping
HKS super mega flow for VPC applications $98.00 + shipping
(comes with
stock green elements & two brand new blue elements -- still
in package)
1 front axle with inner and outer joints attached (needs to
be rebuilt)
$30 + shipping (this is worth it if you don't want any down time
while you
have one of your CV joints rebuilt and ready to go in)
I
also have other miscellaneous parts. If you are searching for
something
specific, e-mail me privately.
Boris
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:13:51
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Technical Stuff: Oil Brand/Viscosity
At 03:52 PM 01/21/02,
Gross, Erik wrote:
>According to Amsoil, with this oil in a "normal"
engine, you can go 35,000
>miles or 12 months between draining/replacing
the oil. I think they
>recommend changing the filter a little more
often. In turbo cars, you can
>go 3x the mfg. recommendation
(15,000mi), apparently because the heat of the
>turbos (and turbo engine,
I assume) cause the oil to break down faster than
>in "normal
cars."
I think you have too many zeros here. In 35,000 miles ANY oil in
ANY engine
would travel up the cylinder walls and also through the crankcase
breather
into the combustion chamber and eventually into exhaust. Oil in the
oil pan
would be replaced with blowby products (unburned gas). In 35,000
miles
nobody would be able to tell if you had Amsoil there or sunflower
oil.
I am amazed at how small oil companies are promoting their products
trying
to get a little piece of the pie away form the big companies. If
these
numbers were true, all commercial carriers including UPS, taxis, and
18-wheelers would be running Amsoil.
I am sure Amsoil is a good oil
and probably lasts longer than many others,
but there are some limits as to
how far a company should go promoting its
products.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:31:51
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
crankshaft treatment
The following paragraph is typical of comments made
about the effect of
cryo treatments on engine
parts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Normally you
will experience a slight increase in Rockwell of a point or two, not much of a
change, but still improvement in the
right direction. The big
improvement is stress relief and stabilization. Engine parts, transmission
parts , or any non cryogenic
treated parts you are thinking about are full of
stress and just waiting to distort when it reaches racing temperatures.
All
machined parts can distort if they have not been stress
relieved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Berry
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
>
Yes.
>
> Cryo does harden the surface, but not the same way..it just
makes the
> metal stronger. Nitride coatings are still a tougher
surface yet.
>
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Jim Berry
wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> To: Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
> >
>
> > My GT4 crank as Basko was heat treated, nitrided (it is
blackish),
> > > vibrationally destressed, and then cryo treated
before delivery.
> >
> >
> > This is one of the
confusing issues --- do you need both or do
> > they both do the same
thing.
> >
> > I know that the cryo treatment goes all the way
through the metal
> > and that the nitriding is only .001 or so deep,
but, does the cryo
> > also provide surface hardning.
>
>
> > If both are better which do I do first --- the cost is kind of
minimal.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:52:32
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: crankshaft treatment
> I think for those who don't know
and only guess
> on this process and believe that only in Japan
>
where the crank is casted can do this work
> please stop clouding the list
with your guesses
> of this process or adding other ideas to only
>
confuse the issue.
I think the nitriding/hardening issue has probably
been beat to death
already. To summarize: Mitsubishi says they've
done "something" to harden
the crank journals. I believe that, since
after a relatively hard life of
60,000 my crank came out looking what I
assume to be the same as when they
installed it in Japan. Properly
equipped machine shops should be able to
perform a number of hardening
processes on a properly machined crank,
including nitriding if so
desired. Cryo-treating sounds helpful, but
probably not as beneficial
as nitriding or other forms of "case hardening".
Did I forget
anything?
And by the way, the cranks are Forged, not "casted". Just
so's you aren't
clouding the list. ;-) I couldn't
resist...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#732
***************************************