Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, January 14
2002 Volume 01 : Number
725
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 13 Jan 2002 08:16:54 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard
What little time I've had with my
datalogger, I would have to agree. Timing
advance seems to be
independent of fuel systems. Although 41 degrees seems
like a lot of
advance. I've yet to see mine past 30 degrees
6500.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
Roger wrote:
>Acording to my
datalogs I do have the same timing before with 360cc stock
>fuel control
and after with the 720 and ARC2. So what is the usual timing
>advance
problem ? For example at 6500 41 degrees regardless of my fuel
>system
!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:01:55
US/Central
From:
tds@brightok.netSubject: Team3S: Fwd: Re:
Strut Bar Question
Forwarded Message:
> To:
stealth@stls.verio.net> From:
tds@brightok.net> Subject: Re: Strut
Bar Question
> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:39:21 US/Central
>
-----
> Shawn,
>
> Make sure you check out the front and rear
strut bars
> that are being sold my SuperMac on 3SI.org.
>
>
Finally, someone is offering these at reasonable
> prices!
>
> FRONT OR REAR SINGLE BAR ----- $115 SHIPPED
>
> FRONT OR
REAR DOUBLE BAR ----- $140 SHIPPED
>
>
> Here is the link
with pics, ordering information etc:
>
>
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?
>
s=5ca077be59fef7d3be25316a617d2c55&threadid=57730&highlight=strut
>
>
> - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds-
---------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 22:58:08
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
> You better explain a
little further on this one, Roger.
Stock injectors and 720cc injectors
with ARC2 = same timing.
> Most of us
> experience a timing
advance increase when using larger injectors with
> an air flow signal
conditioner (ARC2, VPC, etc.).
Who are "most of us" ?
> Less
air flow (less
> engine load) at a given RPM usually means more advance
with our stock
> ECMs.
Is this true ? Why do you know ? Isn't it
just a theory ?
> For example, see my TMO data
below.
>
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-tmo1.htmHad
your ECU already fully relearned ? Timing is always a little more
advanced
then. Also, that you had to adjust the ARC and therefore the
frequency given
to the ECU may also be responsible for a slight difference.
Just look at the
point where you have written the inj size. If you go up and
see that there is
a diff in TPS and airflow figure. If correcting this
differences it is
possible that the timign curve looks the same then.
After many runs I
finally got almost the same curves but about the same
amounts of timing
degree with the 360cc or 720cc. About four other cars I
measured did the same
as well as I logged stock cars and the timing looked
absolutely the same as
on my car with the same boost / amount of air.
This is why I currently
see no need for any external timing retard.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 17:05:49
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
I looked into using MSD
units that adjust timing and I did not find
anything I liked. They use a
bunch of different plugs that retard timing by
so many degrees in some RPM
range and you need to activate one of them at a
time. This sounds like a
weird, complex, and expensive way of doing things.
I think they have a better
setup but it works only with their complete
ignition system.
Instead I
bought Apexi ITC, which is a very simple unit. It has five knobs
that allow
to adjust or retard timing throughout the whole rpm range. Too
bad it is
discontinued and I bought almost the last one in the whole world.
;-) I need
to figure out tow to install it. It only has four or five wires
but the
instructions are in Japanese. Does anyone have those on their 3S or
has
install instructions in English? I might sell it if I buy an
aftermarket
ECU.
Philip
Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com> wrote:
>I
know there is an option with the MSD DIS 4 to pull out timing over
an
RPM
>range. For example, you can have the start timing
reduction drop 4
degrees
>sloped from 4000 to 7000 rpm. I'm using
the ARC 2 and have the usual
timing
>advance/knock problems associated
with running 720cc injectors. Has
anyone
>else tried to reduce
knock by pulling out some timing with the MSD? If
so,
>how much
timing should be reduced?
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 17:16:12
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
> Instead I bought
Apexi ITC, which is a very simple
> unit. It has five knobs that allow to
adjust or
> retard timing throughout the whole rpm range.
Do those
work on our cars? I thought I remembered reading something a while
back
that said they didn't work right. I could be wrong.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:55:18
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
- --- Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
Who are "most of us" ?
Everybody I know except you I guess. :) Ask Jack T.
(xwing) about his
experiences. :)
> Is this true ? Why do you know
? Isn't it just a theory ?
A theory? You are joking, correct? Here I'll just
mention two texts
and offer a datalog.
>From p. 187 of Introduction
to Internal Combustion Engines, 3rd ed.
by Richard Stone: "Ignition timing
has to be advanced at part
throttle settings since the reduced pressure and
temperature in the
cylinder cause slower combustion." Throttling reduces the
air
density, measured as a "vacuum" on our boost gauge at low load
cruise,
idle, and deceleration.
Brief synopsis from Ch. 9 in Internal Combustion
Engine Fundamentals
by John Heywood: Laminar burning velocity reduces as the
heating
value per unit mass of the mixture reduces. This "heating value"
is
determined by the quantity of unburned but burnable mixture in
a
volume. This is different than the A/F ratio. The heating value
is
increased with denser mixtures (such as lots of fuel and air per
cycle)
and decreased by the addition of dilutants (num-combustibles)
such as
recycled exhaust gas.
The datalog on my web page below shows a moderate
change in timing
with gear ratio, with advance being highest in first gear
and lower
in third gear. The big change here is the amount of fuel (IPW)
and
air used per cycle (engine load).
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-tmo2.htm>
Had your ECU already fully relearned ?
The above datalog was taken on
September 20, 2000. The injector
comparison datalog was collected on July 23,
2000. The ARC2 and 550
injectors were installed on April 1, 2000. Now I am
sure the battery
was disconnected many times between those dates. Did I
disconnect the
battery the morning of the datalogs. Not that I remember. But
even if
I had, those of use that observe datalogs carefully see that the
ECM
"learns" in a matter of seconds. Plus there was no reason for the
ECM
to select an alternate fuel-timing map.
> you had to adjust the
ARC and therefore the frequency given
> to the ECU may also be responsible
for a slight difference.
Exactly. As the ARC2 reduces the air flow signal
from the actual
amount, the ECM thinks that engine load is less and so
air-fuel
mixture density (not A/F) is less and so timing needs to be
increased
due to a slower burn speed. The IPW (the fuel injector on time)
is
much less for larger injectors, an indication that air flow signal
has
been reduced.
> see that there is a diff in TPS and airflow
figure
There is no air flow signal shown in that figure (inj. comp.
page).
Some reference books:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-refs.htmWhen
using larger injectors with an air flow signal conditioner
(AFSC), the air
flow signal is reduced to tell the ECM that less air
is flowing than actually
is. This reduces the IPW. The ECM uses a
higher timing advance than should be
used because it thinks less air
is flowing than actually is.
Now if
some folks with larger injectors and an AFSC are really
getting timing
advance to return to stock injector size values that
is great. However, that
has not happened for me that I am aware of.
It would be appreciated if you
folks would show some "stock injector"
logs and "bigger injector" logs that
were collected under similar
circumstances so we can see exactly what you are
referring to.
Thanks.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 02:28:26
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
I did not speak of any
theory, many of us know what we have read.
I do not have the time to
write that much ;-)
Simple question : Why is my timing about the same
with 360cc and with 720cc
injectors at the same boost level ? How is the TPS
involved in this calc ?
It's one signal we change (besides of constants) but
others stay the same.
Of course we make the ECU think but have a look at the
ignition tables. I
advanced them in the lower region to get more tourque as
they looked almost
the same as in the upper region. On the x-axis is rpm and
on y-axis load
calculated by air flow signal (we have tweaked) and TPS. But
do you know how
much the air-signal really counts here ? We know it makes
significant
difference on the fuel map for the injector signal.
One
last comment (I will not be on my PC for the next days) :
> As the
ARC2 reduces the air flow signal from the actual
> amount, the ECM thinks
that engine load is less and so air-fuel
> mixture density (not A/F) is
less and so timing needs to be increased
> due to a slower burn speed. The
IPW (the fuel injector on time) is
> much less for larger injectors, an
indication that air flow signal
> has been reduced.
You say that if
load is less then timing is advanced more. But on the
datalogs, the timing
advance rises at higher rpm and obiously load is
higher. But this is the
opposite you are saying.
Maybe we better isolate an rpm, let's say 6000
rpm. With 360cc under full
load (WOT) timing is 35° advanced (TMO value).
With 720cc the airflow signal
is half and therefore the ECU thinks load is
smaller. What timing advance
should I see now ?
And what if the
ignition system disregards the airflow signal at WOT (not
for fuel of course)
? It only watches rpm and TPS or uses the airflow value
as only a little
part. Who knows for sure ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:09:51
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Apexi ITC; was RE: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
At 05:16 PM 01/13/02,
Jannusch, Matt wrote:
> > Instead I bought Apexi ITC, which is a very
simple
> > unit. It has five knobs that allow to adjust or
> >
retard timing throughout the whole rpm range.
>
>Do those work on
our cars? I thought I remembered reading something a while
>back
that said they didn't work right. I could be wrong.
I hope they do.
There is a page in the manual that has instructions for a
GTO in Japanese.
But Todd Shelton said one day that different wiring
diagram should be used
"depending on year and whether it is a US model or
not". Todd, do you have
these diagrams? Thanks.
Philip
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:31:03
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
> I looked into using
MSD units that adjust timing and I did not find
> anything I liked. They
use a bunch of different plugs that retard timing
by
> so many degrees
in some RPM range and you need to activate one of them at
a
> time.
This sounds like a weird, complex, and expensive way of
doing
things.
The MSD DIS-4 has DIP-Switches to set the timing. No big
deal at all.
> It only has four or five wires
> but the
instructions are in Japanese.
Read the stock manual and connect it in
between the ignition control wire.
Goooood luck .... and how do you tune it
in ??
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:28:56
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
They work but are useless
as you have no feedback to tune them in at all. A
owner in the UK used it but
he always had stutter and strange behaviour and
finally sold it to an MR2
owner.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
<
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>;
<
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 12:16 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
> > Instead I bought Apexi ITC, which is a very
simple
> > unit. It has five knobs that allow to adjust or
> >
retard timing throughout the whole rpm range.
>
> Do those work on
our cars? I thought I remembered reading something a
while
> back
that said they didn't work right. I could be wrong.
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 22:39:36
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
Maybe Road Dyno
http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm.
But if
you have any kind of datalogging you can easily extract wheel torque
from
vehicle acceleration data. Just calculate a derivative of the speed WRT
time.
Philip
At 05:31 PM 01/13/02, Roger Gerl wrote:
> >
It only has four or five wires
> > but the instructions are in
Japanese.
>
>Read the stock manual and connect it in between the
ignition control wire.
>Goooood luck .... and how do you tune it in
??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:10:39
+0000
From:
apedenko@attbi.comSubject: Team3S: OT:
Timing in general
Not to take up a lot of the gurus' time, what is a good
on-line reference for "timing" in general. I'm reading
the current
timing thread and see that I'm completely
lost, whereas I can normally
follow the conversation. I
understand the basic concept, but am confused on
how
timing is retarded by the ecu, and why it's measured in
degrees.
Thanks,
Alex
'95
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:37:01
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
To:
team3s@team3s.com <
team3s@team3s.com>
Date: Sunday,
January 13, 2002 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
>Instead I bought Apexi ITC, which is a very simple unit.
It has five knobs
>that allow to adjust or retard timing throughout the
whole rpm range. Too
>bad it is discontinued and I bought almost the last
one in the whole world.
>;-) I need to figure out tow to install it. It
only has four or five wires
>but the instructions are in Japanese. Does
anyone have those on their 3S or
>has install instructions in English? I
might sell it if I buy an
>aftermarket ECU.
>
>Philip
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---
I've been using an ITC for about 3 years. I know I
still
have the box but I'm not sure about the install diagrams.
I don't
generally throw things like this away so it's possible
I may still have
it. We had to splice into the ECU harness
but it wasn't so
difficult. There were separate instructions
depending on year made and
whether it was a US import
or not. I didn't know they had stopped
producing them.
Shoot me an email if interested.
- - tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:39:18
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
'pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com'
<
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>;
team3s@team3s.com<
team3s@team3s.com>
Date: Sunday,
January 13, 2002 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
>> Instead I bought Apexi ITC, which is a very
simple
>> unit. It has five knobs that allow to adjust or
>>
retard timing throughout the whole rpm range.
>
>Do those work on
our cars? I thought I remembered reading something a
while
>back
that said they didn't work right. I could be wrong.
-
------------------------------------------------------------
They work
fine. They also come in handy
to increase timing at low rpm to aid in
off boost
conditions and better spoolup. Nice colors too! :)
- -
tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:40:43
-0500
From: "Aamer" <
aamer.mail@verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: OT: Timing in general
Well, I am exactly the opposite of a
guru. And I have been a bit too busy to
follow any posts this previous week
so I don't really know what's been going
on -- in fact this must be only the
third or fourth post I have read this
week; but I will try to help you
anyway.
There are more than one type of timing, but since you are talking
about
controlling timing with the ECU, I'm assuming you're talking about
ignition
timing. Let me just be very brief here and explain why the car's
computer
can control the ignition timing:
Our ignition system is a
distributor-less system, thus the spark that goes
to ignite the fuel in the
cylinder is controlled almost completely by the
computer. There are sensors
that detect the movement of the engine, and this
is how the computer knows
when to fire a spark plug. Obviously since there
is nothing "physical"
controlling the timing, it is very easy for the
computer to decide when it
actually wants to send the spark to the cylinder;
and this is exactly what it
does depending on the coniditions of that
particular time. By the way, even
though our ignition is distributor-less,
this doesn't mean that cars with
distributors cannot automatically adjust
ignition timing -- but I won't get
in to that. As anyone can tell you, it
would be an understatement to call
this an oversimplified explanation, but I
think I've given you an answer to
your question.
Also, the reason it is measured in degrees is because when
timing is
advanced or retarded, it is measured in relation to degrees before
TDC (Top
Dead Center -- where the piston is at the very top). The degrees are
simply
how many degrees the crankshaft must turn before the piston reaches
TDC.
Sorry I can't direct you to any online resources since I don't know
of any.
If you want some more detailed information, you can email me with
any
specific questions and I help you as much as I can with my
limited
knowledge.
Aamer Abbas
'94 3000GT (DOHC -- Naturally
Aspirated)
email:
aamer@thepentagon.comfax: (707)
982-8817 [add +1 country code if faxing from outside the USA]
- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Monday,
January 14, 2002 1:10 AM
Subject: Team3S: OT: Timing in general
>
Not to take up a lot of the gurus' time, what is a good
> on-line
reference for "timing" in general. I'm reading
> the current timing thread
and see that I'm completely
> lost, whereas I can normally follow the
conversation. I
> understand the basic concept, but am confused on
how
> timing is retarded by the ecu, and why it's measured in
>
degrees.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
Alex
>
> '95 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:48:23
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
http://www.brightok.net/~tds-
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To:
team3s@team3s.com <
team3s@team3s.com>
Date: Sunday,
January 13, 2002 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
>They work but are useless as you have no feedback to tune them
in at all. A
>owner in the UK used it but he always had stutter and
strange behaviour and
>finally sold it to an MR2 owner.
-
---------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like he
didn't install it correctly as mine
has been fantastic. There are
different wiring
diagrams available from Apexi for the 3S depending
on
year and whether it was a US import or not.
(at least there used to be)
I remember getting
them all from the Apexi website and prinitng
them
before the install just to make sure I was ready.
- -
tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:57:15
+0000
From:
apedenko@attbi.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
OT: Timing in general
Thanks,
That actually answered my
question. I knew that there
were two different types of timing, but it just
didn't
click in my head which one was being discussed. I
understand that
it's a simplified explanation, but it
gives me a pretty good understanding
of what's going on
(not this by itself, but rather this coupled with
whatever other information I already pieced together).
Thanks,
Alex
'95 VR4
> Well, I am exactly the
opposite of a guru. And I have been a bit too busy to
> follow any posts
this previous week so I don't really know what's been going
> on -- in
fact this must be only the third or fourth post I have read this
> week;
but I will try to help you anyway.
>
> There are more than one type
of timing, but since you are talking about
> controlling timing with the
ECU, I'm assuming you're talking about ignition
> timing. Let me just be
very brief here and explain why the car's computer
> can control the
ignition timing:
> Our ignition system is a distributor-less system, thus
the spark that goes
> to ignite the fuel in the cylinder is controlled
almost completely by the
> computer. There are sensors that detect the
movement of the engine, and this
> is how the computer knows when to fire
a spark plug. Obviously since there
> is nothing "physical" controlling
the timing, it is very easy for the
> computer to decide when it actually
wants to send the spark to the cylinder;
> and this is exactly what it
does depending on the coniditions of that
> particular time. By the way,
even though our ignition is distributor-less,
> this doesn't mean that
cars with distributors cannot automatically adjust
> ignition timing --
but I won't get in to that. As anyone can tell you, it
> would be an
understatement to call this an oversimplified explanation, but I
> think
I've given you an answer to your question.
>
> Also, the reason it
is measured in degrees is because when timing is
> advanced or retarded,
it is measured in relation to degrees before TDC (Top
> Dead Center --
where the piston is at the very top). The degrees are simply
> how many
degrees the crankshaft must turn before the piston reaches TDC.
>
>
Sorry I can't direct you to any online resources since I don't know of
any.
> If you want some more detailed information, you can email me with
any
> specific questions and I help you as much as I can with my
limited
> knowledge.
>
>
> Aamer Abbas
> '94
3000GT (DOHC -- Naturally Aspirated)
> email:
aamer@thepentagon.com> fax: (707)
982-8817 [add +1 country code if faxing from outside the USA]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
> To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
> Sent: Monday,
January 14, 2002 1:10 AM
> Subject: Team3S: OT: Timing in general
>
>
> > Not to take up a lot of the gurus' time, what is a
good
> > on-line reference for "timing" in general. I'm reading
>
> the current timing thread and see that I'm completely
> > lost,
whereas I can normally follow the conversation. I
> > understand the
basic concept, but am confused on how
> > timing is retarded by the
ecu, and why it's measured in
> > degrees.
> >
>
> Thanks,
> >
> >
Alex
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:01:07
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Clutch
I bet you are not running RedLine transaxle oil.
The difficulty shifting
when cold goes away with the proper RedLine
oil. Don't recall whether it is
MT90, MTL, or Shockproof, but I'm sure
someone else will chime in ... (FAQ)
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Gil Gomes [SMTP:gil@3kgt.com]
> Sent: Friday,
January 11, 2002 9:19 PM
> To:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Team3S:
Clutch
>
>
> I just bought a '96 VR4... I'vef noticed over
the past several days
> that it's nearly impossible to shift when the car
is cold. It takes
> around 3-4 minutes for it to warm up enough to
shift properly.
> Tonight I noticed a "THUNK" sound when I depressed the
clutch
> when in gear, preparatory to shifting... When the car warmed
up..
> the noise disappeared. I'm concerned this might be a throw
out
> bearing issue... Any ideas?
>
> Thanx...
>
-Gil
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End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#725
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