Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, January 13
2002 Volume 01 : Number
724
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:56:03 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: K&N Research on 1991-1995 Dodge Stealth cars in California
I
was looking at K&N's site for info on the FIPK, and found this
page:
http://www.knfilters.com/needu.htmMaybe
some of you have already seen this page, but if you have a 91-95
stealth and
live in Cali. You might want to take a look.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:26:13
-0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???
This shop wouldn't
happen to be in Arizona would it? I still have not found
a trustable,
reliable shop to work on anythhing. I seem to get more
problems down
the road after anything of mine has been in the shop. If any
of you on
this list lives in Arizona, Phoenix/Mesa area and know of a good
shop, I'm
all ears!
Thanks, I'm gonna start taking things apart and see if I can
figure it all
out, and replace that boot/maybe axel too.
Erik --- '91
Stealth
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Who Knows" <
wapiti67@attbi.com>
To: "Erik
Petterson" <
erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Sent:
Friday, January 11, 2002 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is
torn, Fixxable???
> It takes a special CV joint grease to repack the
joint
> Unless the boot is replaced the grease will be thrown out
>
again.The joint will be destroyed very quickly if not properly
lubricated
> and it becomes contaminated.
> The only way to tell if
joint is bad is to disassemble
> that joint and inspect it.
>
I just had all my axles rebooted and repacked/inspected
> for $208.00 at a
shop the specializes in that type of repair.
> I removed all axles and
took them to the shop to save money.
> If your have the time ,required
effort, and knowledge you
> will save money by doing what labor you
can.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erik Petterson" <
erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
>
To: "Stealth List" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Front axel
boot is torn, Fixxable???
>
> >
> > Ok one more
question:
> > Will just replacing the boot fix the problem with
the grease lost
> already?
> > The hole is big enough where
I could just stick grease in there by
hand,
> > but
>
> I wouldn't know how much to put on it... The Midas shop wants
to
charge
> > like $500 to replace it, they said you have to
replace that entire side
> of
> > the axel. Also at
the Midas they wrote the width of the rotors on the
> > rotors
themselves with a permanent marker...this may sound stupid, but
>
will
> > that affect the brakes at all, would that cause them to
squeek? They
> seem
> > to squeek when I drive real
slow, like through a parking lot, but as
soon
> > as
>
> I press the brakes they stop squeeking and just work normal.
>
>
> > (sorry if my questions seem dumb, but this is my first
car so......)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Erik
--- '91 Stealth
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:32:16
EST
From:
NETM1NDER@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Clutch
If the car is cold I mean 30 degrees This is normal as for the
clunk is it
coming from the front or the back?
Chris
95VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:16:46
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???
At 08:35 PM 1/11/02
-0700, you wrote:
>Ok one more question:
>Will just replacing the
boot fix the problem with the grease lost already?
Yes. Follow the
service manual instructions on cleaning and repacking.
>The hole is
big enough where I could just stick grease in there by hand, but
>I
wouldn't know how much to put on it...
That won't work. You gotta
replace the boot. The big problem is dirt
getting in, not grease getting
out.
The Midas shop wants to charge
>like $500 to replace it,
they said you have to replace that entire side of
>the axel.
$500? Wow! Do they kiss you too, or just %$$@ you?
I
watched Denny's Mufflers here in Cedar Rapids replace my boot. It took
them
less than an hour and cost me less than $100, parts and labor.
Also at
the Midas they wrote the width of the rotors on the
>rotors themselves
with a permanent marker...this may sound stupid, but will
>that affect the
brakes at all, would that cause them to squeek?
No, I still think they
got dirt on your rotors and pads when they were
futzing around in
there.
>(sorry if my questions seem dumb, but this is my first car
so......)
It looks like the greedy incompetent SOBs at Midas figured that
out real
fast.
You need to find a competent brake shop that can work on
your car.
Are you anywhere near Iowa? I know a good one.
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:33:43
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Try Tires Plus
>$500? Wow! Do they kiss you too,
or just %$$@ you?
>I watched Denny's Mufflers here in Cedar Rapids replace
my boot. It took
>them less than an hour and cost me less than $100, parts
and labor.
>
I just remembered that the guys at Tires Plus replaced a
wheel stud for me,
and they had to almost disassemble the front axle to do
it. If you have a
Tires Plus store nearby, they might be worth a try.
Anybody but Midas.
Rich/slow old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jan 2002 05:16:40
-0800
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Midwest Gathering
Mark started 2 new threads, boy is he whining,
and hopefully everyone else can tell its whining too. I would suggest
being very political and not sarting any flame wars, but I am not the organizer
of the gathering so I can reply if you want.
This is the reply I want to
send to him but I know I'll start a flame war. Let me know how you feel.
-
------------
I must be and idiot because I didn't know that the Midwest
gathering was always in August. I don't even know were it is at, and from
this post I still don't know were this is at. I even asked you for
information on another thread and you did not bother to reply: (show link
to thread)
Also Why are you flaming Jeremy?
He asked repeatedly for
someone to try to organize a National gathering (show link to tread) and no-one
was willing to make the commitment so he decided t do it himself. You
could have made the Midwest gathering into the National gathering but you did
not. As far as I tell Jeremy has already done more promoting and
organizing for the National gathering than has been done for any other
gathering.
There has already been over 150 pre-registrations and some
some hotel reservations made. At the rate it is going The national
gathering will easily be the biggest 3000gt/stealth gathering ever.
You
should be glad that this is happening, Why are you so bitter about
it?
Also as for the date the reason he chose August is because that is
what people voted on. I didn't see your comments on that thread
either. Asking him to change the date on January 7th after (100 ?) people
had pre-registered is not reasonable. Espcially since Jeremy asked you on the
10th when your gathering would be and you did not bother to respond
http://209.58.199.225/vbb/showthread.php?s=6974757d186957f17b04e1a8d4e25915&threadid=58119&perpage=15&pagenumber=3If
you have had 3 midwest gatherings it sounds like you did a good job. I might go
to this coming one to meet people who can't make the National gathering. But
right now you sound like a whiny child who is mad because his brother got a new
toy just like his. I sounds like the Midwest gathering is worht goign to
but if you try to promote it by slamming the national gathering all you are
goign to do is make yourself look bad.
Hows that?
I'm not going to
Detroit Sunday, I hav permission I just wanted to stay at home and spend some
family time, I've been working too much lately
John
Find the best
deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:52:25
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Off Throttle Knock Sum
While reviewing my data logs I noticed a
knock sum value of 5 as I approched
6K in 3rd. Oddly enough, my log
indicates rolling off the throttle shortly
after knock is detected (I had to
back off to avoid slow traffic ahead), the
knock sum suddenly peaks up as I'm
rolling out of the throttle - up to 17
with the throttle position at
34%. This was my only indicated knock sum
event, so I was unable to
confirm or duplicate the occurance. I'm wandering
if anyone else has
seen similar results.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 08:33:06
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Off Throttle Knock Sum
I had a similar reading --- although I was lugging
the engine, fairly low rpm [ 2500 ]
and full throttle. The knock sum went
from 7 to 24 [ I didn't see it until later ] and
stayed at 24 for about ¾ of
a second --- I dropped the throttle about ¼ of the way
through the 24 count
and I still had a 24 count with the throttle at 0. The timing was
dropping
well before the knock sum and was down to about 13º by the time I got
any
knock indication --- it continued to drop down to about 10º.
It may have
to do with the way the logger stores information, I'm not sure of it's
sample
rate.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
To: Team 3S
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:52 AM
Subject: Team3S: Off Throttle Knock
Sum
> While reviewing my data logs I noticed a knock sum value of
5 as I approched
> 6K in 3rd. Oddly enough, my log indicates rolling
off the throttle shortly
> after knock is detected (I had to back off to
avoid slow traffic ahead), the
> knock sum suddenly peaks up as I'm
rolling out of the throttle - up to 17
> with the throttle position at
34%. This was my only indicated knock sum
> event, so I was unable
to confirm or duplicate the occurance. I'm wandering
> if anyone
else has seen similar results.
>
> Regards,
>
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 00:55:15
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Pinging - Stuck Lifter?
I just recently had the 60k service done
in my car (by a reliable mechanic) and after getting it back, I noticed that
when idle, I can hear a "ping" coming from my engine. The car is
stock. It sounds to me like a stuck valve perhaps, the result of a sticky
lifter. The only thing that throws me off is that the noise only exists
when I'm idle. The noise increases with the RPM, but once I reach roughly
2000 RPM in first gear, the noise goes away. It doesn't usually come back
either, until I'm waiting for my car to cool down at the end of the drive.
I've tried using various cleaning fluids but the noise still exists. Any
ideas? Thanks in advance
John
'94 3000GT VR-4 (no
mods)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:05:58
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Tranny Leak
Shortly before I took my car in for its 60k service,
I noticed my tranny leaking fluid, a small puddle maybe 2 inches in diameter,
after leaving it sit overnight from a drive. When I took it in for the 60k
service, and after a few questions about how I drive, my (trustworthy) mechanic
felt that it may be simply tightening a few bolts. The community I live in
has a lot of speed bumps that are poorly built, by this, I mean that I can pop
my car into neutral, turn off the engine, and push my car over the speedbump (I
just did this) and as my front wheels go over the bump and reach the ground, you
can hear something hit, though it doesn't scrape. My mechanic though that
I may be knocking something loose when going over the speed bump. Without
pulling the tranny out (ouch in labor fees!) he tightened the bolts he could but
the leak is still there. He suggested putting some "tranny filler" in the
car, said it was a liquid that seeps into the cracks and if the leak was
nothing!
it'd seal the leak. But he said it was definately a
transfer case problem.
I know our trannies tend to need replacing at
60-70k, and I'm no car genius, but I do know that my tranny shifts almost like a
new tranny, no grinding, smooth shift, so I can't see any mechanical problems
existing, and I don't drive it hard, so I can't see the leak being a result of a
crack. Does anyone know how resistant these getrags are to cracking from
hard (or normal) driving? What could the problem be? And has anyone
heard of this "tranny filler"?
Sorry to bombard the list with questions,
just a little scared of all these repairs at once...
John
'94 3000GT
VR-4 (no mods)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 01:09:25
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Different Size Turbos
I was thinking about our twin turbos and
the larger turbo lag as a result of a larger turbo. Is it possible, to put
turbos of different sizes? My thinking is that if I had a 13G or 15G turbo
in front, and then a 17G or 19G turbo afterwards, that the smaller turbo would
spool up quicker, and once fully spooled, would cause the second (larger) turbo
to also spool up quickly. Is this ignorant thinking, or is it
possible?
John
'94 3000GT VR-4 (no mods, yet)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:34:33
-0500
From: "Gil Gomes" <
gil@3kgt.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Clutch
Sounds like the front... just forward of the
cockpit.
Thanx...
- -G
> If the car is cold I mean 30 degrees
This is normal as for the clunk is it
> coming from the front or the
back?
>
> Chris 95VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jan 2002 10:33:47
-0800
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: Midwest gathering & Gingerman
Sorry fot the last
post, It was not ment to go Team 3S, Teams3s is in my address book right
next to intended recipiant. I was privately venting about a post on 3si
that p%ssed me off so inted of starting a flame war I sent it to someone else
who would understand. Unfortunatley I didn't check the email address
before I sent it. I appoligize if I offend the people it
referenced.
Gingerman:
Does anyone drive on the road course at
Gingerman track in Michigan. If you do please email me privately.
The BMW club (and another club I can't remeber right now) have the Gingerman
reserved on the wekend of the National gathering. I am trying to find a
contact so that I can approach them about letting some of the national gathering
guys join in on thier track day.
John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com1991 VR-4
(road course virgin!)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:34:40
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Off Throttle Knock Sum
Jim,
You bring up a good point with the
question of sample rate. If your data is
showing variations in timing,
throttle pos. etc. while the knock sum remains
constant, is this because the
ECU reports knock sum data at a lower sample
rate than the other data?
In my case, the knock sum was actually increasing
as the throttle position
was decreasing.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
To: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>; "Team 3S" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Off Throttle Knock
Sum
I had a similar reading --- although I was lugging the engine, fairly
low
rpm [ 2500 ]
and full throttle. The knock sum went from 7 to 24 [ I
didn't see it until
later ] and
stayed at 24 for about ¾ of a second --- I
dropped the throttle about ¼ of
the way
through the 24 count and I still
had a 24 count with the throttle at 0. The
timing was
dropping well before
the knock sum and was down to about 13º by the time I
got
any knock
indication --- it continued to drop down to about 10º.
It may have to do
with the way the logger stores information, I'm not sure
of it's
sample
rate.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
To: Team 3S
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:52 AM
Subject: Team3S: Off Throttle Knock
Sum
> While reviewing my data logs I noticed a knock sum value of
5 as I
approched
> 6K in 3rd. Oddly enough, my log indicates
rolling off the throttle
shortly
> after knock is detected (I had to
back off to avoid slow traffic ahead),
the
> knock sum suddenly peaks
up as I'm rolling out of the throttle - up to 17
> with the throttle
position at 34%. This was my only indicated knock sum
> event, so I
was unable to confirm or duplicate the occurance. I'm
wandering
>
if anyone else has seen similar results.
>
> Regards,
>
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:29:36
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Different Size Turbos
If you run two turbos of different size
then you also must control their
wastegate individually as well as some
synchronising between them must be
done. Just look at the Supra sequential
turbo setup and its compexity of
wastegates in the exhaust manifold. What I
don't know is what would happen
if one turbo boosts 1 bar and the other 0.5
bars at the same time. Will the
additional pressure from the bigger turbo
harm the smaller ? Little
differences shouldn't cause problems and in fact
two of the same same keep
the boost while airflow can rise. When a smaller
turbo begins to going out
of breath the other may push against the smaller
compressor wheel. Not sure
what the reality is but there is a cause why
Toyota built this complex
different system to support two turbos of different
size in one path.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:09 PM
Subject: Team3S: Different Size
Turbos
> I was thinking about our twin turbos and the larger turbo
lag as a result
of a larger turbo. Is it possible, to put turbos of
different sizes? My
thinking is that if I had a 13G or 15G turbo in
front, and then a 17G or 19G
turbo afterwards, that the smaller turbo would
spool up quicker, and once
fully spooled, would cause the second (larger)
turbo to also spool up
quickly. Is this ignorant thinking, or is it
possible?
>
> John
> '94 3000GT VR-4 (no mods,
yet)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:53:12
-0600
From:
overclck@ies.net (Cody
Graham)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pinging - Stuck Lifter?
Sounds like you
have the normal Mitsubishi "Tap"
We have crap for lifters, and for some
reason, they always seem to start
tapping, no matter how new/old/redesigned
they are.
Live with it, and change your oil. There have been
hundreds of
possibilities of how to fix this, but none are 100% proven, some
work
for some, some don't. You don't have a stuck lifter. If you
did, you
wouldn't have a lifter cause chances are the piston would slam into
it.
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of John Stegall III
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:55 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Pinging - Stuck Lifter?
I just recently had the 60k service done
in my car (by a reliable
mechanic) and after getting it back, I noticed that
when idle, I can
hear a "ping" coming from my engine. The car is
stock. It sounds to me
like a stuck valve perhaps, the result of a
sticky lifter. The only
thing that throws me off is that the noise only
exists when I'm idle.
The noise increases with the RPM, but once I reach
roughly 2000 RPM in
first gear, the noise goes away. It doesn't usually
come back either,
until I'm waiting for my car to cool down at the end of the
drive. I've
tried using various cleaning fluids but the noise still
exists. Any
ideas? Thanks in advance
John
'94 3000GT
VR-4 (no mods)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:02:17
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Different Size Turbos
> ... Toyota built this complex
different system to support two
> turbos of different size in one
path.
Contrary to this popularly repeated misconception, both turbos
are
the same size on the Supra.
Boost control.
On ours cars, boost
control is not for the pressure ratio at the
turbo, it is for the pressure in
the plenum. Our boost control does
not consider at all what the pressure is
just after the turbos. As
Roger points out, this can lead to complications.
If one of our
turbos is malfunctioning somehow and output is less than
expected or
perhaps there is a leak in the IC system after but near one
turbo,
the turbos may not be "synchronized" in output. The engine and
the
boost controller do not care. Consequently, damage could occur to
one
turbo.
I don't see the point in using two different size turbos,
as turbos
of 13G or 15G size respond adequately well for the street. But
two
different size turbos would not likely solve the problem you want
them
to. Each of our turbos is designed for a 1.5L engine. You can't
expect 1
small turbo to supply enough air for "early" pressurization
for 3.0L to
reduce lag.
Turbo upgrade guide:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- ---
Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
If you run two turbos of different size then you also must control
>
their
> wastegate individually as well as some synchronising between
them
> must be
> done. Just look at the Supra sequential turbo setup
and its
> compexity of
> wastegates in the exhaust manifold. What I
don't know is what would
> happen
> if one turbo boosts 1 bar and
the other 0.5 bars at the same time.
> Will the
> additional
pressure from the bigger turbo harm the smaller ? Little
> differences
shouldn't cause problems and in fact two of the same
> same keep
>
the boost while airflow can rise. When a smaller turbo begins to
> going
out
> of breath the other may push against the smaller compressor
wheel.
> Not sure
> what the reality is but there is a cause why
Toyota built this
> complex
> different system to support two turbos
of different size in one
> path.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT
TT
>
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:15:16
EST
From:
NETM1NDER@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Clutch
Does the clunk come from the right side? If you depress the clutch
does it
make less noise? If it does then it could be the trans bearing, I
would
change the trans oil & replace it with red line MT90 It mite quite
it down,
thetas what I would try first. I guess you will have to eliminate
one thing
at a time until you pin point the problem, hope this
helps.
Chris
95Vr4(tecperformance.com)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:43:37
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Different Size Turbos
The turbos on a Supra are the exact same
size. This has been argued many
times on various Supra lists and
boards. The reason for the sequential
system has nothing to do with the
sizing of the turbos. From idle on up to
roughly 4500 RPM, the second
turbo is isolated from the exhaust path. This
means the full volume of
exhaust is allowed to spool the first turbo, thus
allowing it to come to full
boost very quickly. From around 3500 to 4500
RPM, the valving in the
exhaust gradually pre-spools the second turbo, which
comes fully on-line at
4500+. People have done a parallel conversion on
the Supras where
they lock open the exhaust valving and allow both turbos to
spool
simulatneously. This increases lag, but allows more low end power
since
both turbos are on-line from the beginning.
I suppose it would be
possible to build a sequential setup on a 3S, but the
piping would be a
nightmare. In short, why do so many paople here feel the
need to
reinvent the wheel? I wasn't aware lag was a problem on our cars at
all
unless you have a truely massive turbo system. Just get a pair of
twins
that suit your needs and save your time, money and energy and get
some
proper tuning done.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Saturday,
January 12, 2002 2:02 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Different Size Turbos
> ... Toyota built this complex
different system to support two
> turbos of different size in one
path.
Contrary to this popularly repeated misconception, both turbos
are
the same size on the Supra.
Boost control.
On ours cars, boost
control is not for the pressure ratio at the
turbo, it is for the pressure in
the plenum. Our boost control does
not consider at all what the pressure is
just after the turbos. As
Roger points out, this can lead to complications.
If one of our
turbos is malfunctioning somehow and output is less than
expected or
perhaps there is a leak in the IC system after but near one
turbo,
the turbos may not be "synchronized" in output. The engine and
the
boost controller do not care. Consequently, damage could occur to
one
turbo.
I don't see the point in using two different size turbos,
as turbos
of 13G or 15G size respond adequately well for the street. But
two
different size turbos would not likely solve the problem you want
them
to. Each of our turbos is designed for a 1.5L engine. You can't
expect 1
small turbo to supply enough air for "early" pressurization
for 3.0L to
reduce lag.
Turbo upgrade guide:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- ---
Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
If you run two turbos of different size then you also must control
>
their
> wastegate individually as well as some synchronising between
them
> must be
> done. Just look at the Supra sequential turbo setup
and its
> compexity of
> wastegates in the exhaust manifold. What I
don't know is what would
> happen
> if one turbo boosts 1 bar and
the other 0.5 bars at the same time.
> Will the
> additional
pressure from the bigger turbo harm the smaller ? Little
> differences
shouldn't cause problems and in fact two of the same
> same keep
>
the boost while airflow can rise. When a smaller turbo begins to
> going
out
> of breath the other may push against the smaller compressor
wheel.
> Not sure
> what the reality is but there is a cause why
Toyota built this
> complex
> different system to support two turbos
of different size in one
> path.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT
TT
>
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:47:46
-0800
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Motor oil type
When I tried mobil 1, I went through a quart in
about 1500 miles. Now I
only use redline or royal purple 5 or 10 W 30
and have no problems.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:54:07
-0800
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
I know there is an option
with the MSD DIS 4 to pull out timing over an RPM
range. For example,
you can have the start timing reduction drop 4 degrees
sloped from 4000 to
7000 rpm. I'm using the ARC 2 and have the usual timing
advance/knock
problems associated with running 720cc injectors. Has anyone
else tried
to reduce knock by pulling out some timing with the MSD? If so,
how
much timing should be reduced?
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:39:33
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Different Size Turbos
> The turbos on a Supra are the
exact same size. This has been argued many
> times on various Supra
lists and boards.
The european JZA80 we upgraded to a single turbo
monster had two different
turbine wheels. For me this isn't the exact size,
although the housing it
is.
> I suppose it would be possible to
build a sequential setup on a 3S, but
the
> piping would be a
nightmare. In short, why do so many paople here feel
the
> need
to reinvent the wheel? I wasn't aware lag was a problem on our
cars
at
> all unless you have a truely massive turbo system. Just
get a pair of
twins
> that suit your needs and save your time, money
and energy and get some
> proper tuning done.
I felt the lag
difference between a 94'Stealth with 9b and my 93'3000GT with
13g. The diff
of 5 and 6 speed tranny of course is also a value but not that
much like I
felt the difference in spooling up. The 20g size turbos I'm
running produce
about 1000rpm lag, i.e. they really come one about 4200 (
but I never boosted
up above 1 bar so far) Therefore two 17g would be
responsible for more lag of
around 500 rpm or less. Maybe lag in seconds
would be better but this is more
difficult to measure or read on the tach.
An antilag system like in the ST205
GT Four would be great but our V design
hurts (as
usual).
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:20:50
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Different Size Turbos
THe turbos in a MKIV are the same size
both are CT-26's but the 2nd one has
a slightly different compressor wheel
housing compared to a standard ct-26.
Trust me on this most 6-speed owners
switch to TTC because of various
failures of the Sequential system.
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl
Sent: Sat 1/12/2002 1:29 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Cc:
Subject: Re: Team3S: Different Size Turbos
If you run two
turbos of different size then you also must control their
wastegate
individually as well as some synchronising between them must be
done. Just
look at the Supra sequential turbo setup and its compexity of
wastegates in
the exhaust manifold. What I don't know is what would happen
if one turbo
boosts 1 bar and the other 0.5 bars at the same time. Will the
additional
pressure from the bigger turbo harm the smaller ? Little
differences
shouldn't cause problems and in fact two of the same same keep
the boost
while airflow can rise. When a smaller turbo begins to going out
of breath
the other may push against the smaller compressor wheel. Not sure
what the
reality is but there is a cause why Toyota built this complex
different
system to support two turbos of different size in one path.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch -
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:09 PM
Subject: Team3S: Different Size
Turbos
> I was thinking about our twin turbos and the larger
turbo lag as a result
of a larger turbo. Is it possible, to put turbos
of different sizes? My
thinking is that if I had a 13G or 15G turbo in
front, and then a 17G or 19G
turbo afterwards, that the smaller turbo
would spool up quicker, and once
fully spooled, would cause the second
(larger) turbo to also spool up
quickly. Is this ignorant thinking, or
is it possible?
>
> John
> '94 3000GT VR-4 (no mods, yet)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:57:59
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Motor oil type
Ever since I bought the car, (30k miles) it has
had Mobil 1 synthetic
changed at every 3k miles. The car has 102,000
miles with original turbos.
If I kept the oil in any longer, I don't think it
would protect the motor
well since it always smells like gas and the
viscosity feels like it is
gone. I never lose more then 1 quart btwn
changes. The oil pressure
incidentally only seems to read in the good
area on the second 3000 with the
same filter. The manual recommends
changes at 5k and 10k for the oil and
filter respectively, so sometimes I
keep the filter in for 10k. I am going
to do a compression test one of
these weekends to see how shes doing--still
rips off 12s
though!
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joshua G. Prince
<
joshua@unconundrum.com>
To: Bob
Forrest <
bf@bobforrest.com>;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Cc:
Jamie Marzonie <
jsmarzonie@hotmail.com>; Fred
Martinez <
frekiy@mac.com>
Date:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 1:42 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil
type
>I have seen a marked improvement with Amsoil oil over Mobil
1. I have
>seen numerous tests done by different individuals and
companies that
>show that the Amsoil is a better oil. I had a friend
who used Amsoil in
>his 3000gt and would send his oil for analysis.
He kept the oil in for
>9000 miles and the testing company thought that
the oil *may* have a
>1000 miles at most on it. My friend called
them to verify the results
>and they were astounded to hear that it had
been used for 9000 miles. I
>am by no means trying to start a flame
war between Mobil 1 and Amsoil,
>but instead trying to let everyone know
that there are oils out there
>that have shown to be better then Mobil
1. I did see a test between
>Mobil 1 and Red Line and Mobil 1 was
found to be superior.
>
>Joshua Prince
>97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
>3SI#0136
>Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
>Joshua@Unconundrum.com
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: Bob Forrest [mailto:bf@bobforrest.com]
>Sent:
Friday, January 11, 2002 2:46 PM
>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Cc:
Jamie Marzonie; Fred Martinez
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil
type
>
>>>>RedLine 10W40, perfect for turbo cars.. esp.
ones that have oil
>cooled
>turbos. I try to use Amsoil
filters.. but Purolator Pure One filters
>are
>good, but offer
slightly less flow. The K&N filters are really
nice,
>but
>don't last worth anything (high flow design, you'll have
to change this
>one
>more often)>>>
>
>I must
disagree slightly... Although Redline 10W30 (*not* 10W40
or
>higher,
>which are recommended for *worn* engines to help
restore compression OR
>for
>extremely hot environments) is an
excellent oil for our cars (as are
>most
>synthetics), recent
testing (reported last year on this list - check the
>archives) and the
experiences of many of us on the list has shown Mobil1
>to
>be a
superior oil (albeit slightly). I don't know if it was from
Team3S
>folks, but other 3S owner tests showed the stock oil filter to be
as
>good,
>if not better, than any others. I agree that
high-flow oil filters are
>not
>recommended, since they allow larger
particles to pass through.
>
>>>>The RedLine oil need not
be replaced every 3k. I typically replace
>it
>every 6-7K (oil
in non-extreme duty environment is claimed to not need a
>full change
until 18K miles), so I just replace the filter every 3K, and
>whatever oil
was lost due to the filter change.>>>
>
>This statement is
backwards and needs clarification-- Although standard
>engines
(read: Detroit Iron) do not require (as) frequent oil
changes,
>higher-compression (and higher RPM) engines like ours need
more
>protection
>from smaller particles, because of the tight
tolerances. It's probably
>just
>a bit of overkill to change
at 3k miles, but changing oil frequently is
>cheap insurance against
engine wear. But... You do NOT want to
change
>the
>filter with every oil change. MOF, the oil filter
traps smaller
>particles
>as it 'ages', hence the (quite universal)
practice of only changing the
>filter every OTHER oil change. The
filter works *better* after it
>catches
>the larger
particles...
>
>The correct "rule" is: Change the oil every 3k
(approximately), and
>change
>the filter every *other* oil
change.
>
>Best,
>
>Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:30:49
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Motor oil type
That's 24 oil changes.
12 oil filter
changes.
About 4.5 quarts per change.
About $7 per quart.
About $8 per
filter.
$31.5 in oil per change.
$756.00 in oil changes.
$96.00 in oil
filter changes.
For a total of $852.
:)
Granted those are
guesses at the numbers as price per quart goes up
after 5 years and a case is
cheaper than by-the-bottle so about
$900-$1,000 in oil changes. That's
downright CHEAP in my mind for some
peace of mind. Cut back oil changes
to every 6,000 miles and the total
above is only $416 or about
$450-$500. Still cheap for 72,000 miles of
service.
Now the
price of a $9 quart of synthetic vs. $7.50 blend of $5 of normal
stuff
doesn't seem so bad looking at the long run.
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Shelat
Sent: Saturday,
January 12, 2002 12:58
Ever since I bought the car, (30k miles) it
has had Mobil 1 synthetic
changed at every 3k miles. The car has
102,000 miles with original
turbos.
If I kept the oil in any longer, I
don't think it would protect the
motor
well since it always smells like
gas and the viscosity feels like it is
gone. I never lose more then 1
quart btwn changes. The oil pressure
incidentally only seems to read in
the good area on the second 3000 with
the
same filter. The manual
recommends changes at 5k and 10k for the oil
and
filter respectively, so
sometimes I keep the filter in for 10k. I am
going
to do a
compression test one of these weekends to see how shes
doing--still
rips
off 12s though!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 00:50:35
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
> I know there is an
option with the MSD DIS 4 to pull out timing over an
RPM
> range.
For example, you can have the start timing reduction drop 4
degrees
>
sloped from 4000 to 7000 rpm. I'm using the ARC 2 and have the
usual
timing
> advance/knock problems associated with running 720cc
injectors.
Acording to my datalogs I do have the same timing before with
360cc stock
fuel control and after with the 720 and ARC2. So what is the
usual timing
advance problem ? For example at 6500 41 degrees regardless of
my fuel
system !
> Has anyone
> else tried to reduce knock by
pulling out some timing with the MSD? If
so,
> how much timing
should be reduced?
No, the stock ECU is doing this. Again the 6500
example with a sum of 11
(decreasing) resulted in a timing of 38° advance
(note : this are datalog
figures and are only a ballpark as TMO made it for 4
bangers)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:57:47
-0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: Midwest gathering & Gingerman
I thought you made really
good points.
You going ? I am.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: John Monnin [mailto:jkmonnin@altavista.com]
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:34 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: RE: Midwest gathering & Gingerman
Sorry fot the last
post, It was not ment to go Team 3S, Teams3s is in my
address book
right next to intended recipiant. I was privately venting
about a post
on 3si that p%ssed me off so inted of starting a flame war I
sent it to
someone else who would understand. Unfortunatley I didn't check
the
email address before I sent it. I appoligize if I offend the people
it
referenced.
Gingerman:
Does anyone drive on the road course
at Gingerman track in Michigan. If you
do please email me
privately. The BMW club (and another club I can't
remeber right now)
have the Gingerman reserved on the wekend of the National
gathering. I
am trying to find a contact so that I can approach them about
letting some of
the national gathering guys join in on thier track day.
John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com1991 VR-4
(road course virgin!)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:00:48
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: Midwest gathering & Gingerman
Hint ... when replying
about a Gathering try to include your city, state
so people know what region
we are coming from and caravan if possible or
carpool.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
Pittsburgh, PA
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Floyd, Jim
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002
18:58
I thought you made really good points.
You going ? I
am.
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Monnin
[mailto:jkmonnin@altavista.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:34
AM
Sorry fot the last post, It was not ment to go Team 3S, Teams3s
is in
my
address book right next to intended recipiant. I was
privately venting
about a post on 3si that p%ssed me off so inted of starting
a flame war
I
sent it to someone else who would understand.
Unfortunatley I didn't
check
the email address before I sent it. I
appoligize if I offend the people
it
referenced.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:10:34
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
You better explain a
little further on this one, Roger. Most of us
experience a timing advance
increase when using larger injectors with
an air flow signal conditioner
(ARC2, VPC, etc.). Less air flow (less
engine load) at a given RPM usually
means more advance with our stock
ECMs. For example, see my TMO data
below.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-tmo1.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- ---
Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
Acording to my datalogs I do have the same timing before with
> 360cc
stock fuel control and after with the 720 and ARC2. So
> what is the usual
timing advance problem ? For example at 6500
> 41 degrees regardless of my
fuel system !
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#724
***************************************