Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Friday, January 11 2002   Volume 01 : Number 723




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:43:12 -0500
From: "Bill vP" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter

I think what Roger meant was "What do you think he would tell you."

We all know of the hoods that were always "just around the corner"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
To: "'Roger Gerl'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>; <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter

> "Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?"
>
> Roger,
>
> He has been telling anyone who will listen.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Gerl [mailto:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 5:06 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
> Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
>
> > What is "knock control"? Do you guys mean ignition retard if knock is
> > detected?
>
> Yes, this would be the definition, although we'd be hapyy if we only could
> read or even log knock with such "standalone" ECUs.
>
> > Many good turbo ECU's also reduce boost if knock is detected. I do not
> > think any of the ECU's that we are talking about are capable of this,
> > although a guy at AEM told me that his unit could be set up to do this.
>
> Yes, but again with their own knock sensor. 99% not compatible with the
> Mitsu one. Maybe it could be positioned in the same bracket but then it
must
> be tuned in to the engines characteristic. Hey this is a job engineers are
> doing on an engine dyno with analysing histograms and voice records on
> several parts on the engine.
>
> > Brian from GT-Pro told me that they are almost ready to come out with a
> > plug and play ECU which is not Autronic.
>
> Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?
>
> > This is very cool for us to have
> > several new plug and play 3S ECU's coming out all at once because it
seems
> > like even Autronic SM2 is lacking some necessary features.
>
> Some are good designs and lack of software others have a great software
but
> the hardware is limited. The AEM soudns not bad ... but then the question
> rises again : does it work in our cars too ?
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:50:23 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> High RPMs, was-> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split Second

Torque is what makes the car go --- RPM is good but for a street car you're
generally limited to stock gear ratios so you can't really take advantage of
the big rpm numbers. You're going to suffer down at the lower rpm unless
you can greatly expand the width of the torque curve --- that's not usually
the case, the torque curve typically just moves up the rpm range.

F1 cars have tons of HP but it's at 14K to 18K rpm, if you can design your
own gear ratios that's great, you can use all the HP. If you can't design your
own you have to arrange engine output to match your gear ratios.

        Jim Berry
===========================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Zobel, Kurt <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>

> Almost forgot to reply to this.
> All things being equal, the higher the rpm the better.
>
> More power. You may lose power once past peak rpm, but you are going to a higher gear,
> so wheel HP is reduced by the gear ratio. The longer you can stay in a lower gear the
> better. It is only by concession that we have more than 1 gear.  
> It is smoother.  
> It allows more gear overlap, for flexibility on specific corner needs.
> Less shifting, maybe skip a shift in some cases.  or at least delay a shift
> until OUT of a corner vs IN the corner. 
> It provides better throttle response and manipulation.
> It provides better traction, more even rather than pulsed power.
> It makes more noise!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:54:22 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split Se cond Intake/ Fuel Comuter

> I think what Roger meant was "What do you think
> he would tell you."

> We all know of the hoods that were always "just
> around the corner"

I agree with that...  If we were to wait for things that might be versus
things that actually are - we might be waiting a very long time.  On various
3/S related parts that has been the case.

We can either hope that a magic solution comes along that solves all our
problems and makes the world a better place - or we can try to implement
some of the solutions that already exist.  I for one can't afford to wait
any longer for someone to figure out (and prove) a full standalone solution
for my car.  I need something today (well, probably a month or so from now
when the car is actually operational again).

I think I heard about GT Pro's ECU being "just around the corner" about a
year or so ago.  I sincerely hope the thing is great when it comes out, but
I don't have the luxury of waiting for it to become reality...  The driving
and racing season is pretty short sometimes up here in the Great White North
of Minnesota (although this year is an exception).

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:14:56 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: Team3S: Anyone know how the bearing coding works?

So during my rebuild I picked the Pink coded main bearings to put in (not
realizing that the originals were color coded also - and were coded Green,
aparantly).

John Christian shared a couple pages from the Rebuild Manaual (that weren't
in my PDF version of the manual) and there is a reference chart that's
something like this:

- -------------------------------------------------
Crankshaft Journal          |Cyl. Block|Crank   |
                            |Brng. Bore|Bearing |
                            |Diameter  |        |
- -------------------------------------------------
Classifi-|ID mark|Outer dia.|ID Mark   |ID Color|
Cation   |(serv. |mm(in)    |          |        |
         |part)  |          |          |        |
- -------------------------------------------------
   1     |Yellow |59.990-   |   I      | Pink   |
         |       |59.996    |   II     | Red    |
         |       |(2.3618-  |   III    | Green  |
         |       |2.3620)   |          |        |
- -------------------------------------------------
   2     |None   |59.984-   |   I      | Red    |
         |       |59.990    |   II     | Green  |
         |       |(2.3616-  |   III    | Black  |
         |       |2.3618)   |          |        |
- -------------------------------------------------
   3     |White  |59.978-   |   I      | Green  |
         |       |59.984    |   II     | Black  |
         |       |(2.3613-  |   III    | Brown  |
         |       |2.3616)   |          |        |
- -------------------------------------------------

It further explains that on the block there are a set of marks near the
tranny mount flange.  Something like this:

    xxxxxxxx   - Cylinder block bore size mark
    xxxxxxxx   - """"  (Reference)

   xxxxxxxxx   - Cyl. Block bearing bore dia. ID

On my motor it has marks like this:

    ZZT
    TTT

  Z
  ZZZZ

So what do my marks mean, exactly?  I can't figure out how it refers to the
green main bearings that were originally installed in my motor by
Mitsubishi.  How does "ZZZZ" become Classification 1, ID mark III?  I don't
understand.

I figured out that the Pink main bearings are apparantly the largest bearing
shell available, just by seeing that the colors move towards larger bore
sizes in the chart (ie: Green is a III in Class 1, then II in Class II
bores, etc).  All my oil clearances were within tolerances with the Pink
bearings though, even though they are technically two sizes tighter than the
Green ones.

Is that okay, or do I need to pull the crank back out and install Green
bearings, even though the clearances checked out?  If I try to interpret the
chart, I come to the conclusion that the Pinks should be about .001-.002mm
tighter than the original Greens.

Tolerances are 0.020 - 0.050mm and my clearances were all almost exactly
0.032mm measured with Plastigage.

Anyone done this before?  This information is on page 11E-157 of the Engine
Rebuild manual.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:06:49 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???

Hello this is my first posting to the list.  I just bought a 1991 Dodge
Stealth about a week ago.  Most everything on the car is in great condition.
I took it for a brake inspection at a Midas shop and they found a tear
in the Outer Axel Boot on the drivers side of the car.  I have downloaded
the CAPS program and it is part number 32014R (labeled "C" in the
illustration)  I am wondering if I can put some grease in there and then
seal up the boot with something.  The tear is about 3 inches long and it
runs along one of the bends, (i.e. it doesn't cut accross the bands, it runs
parralel along the top of one).  Any other suggestions on this matter or any
help would be greatly appreciated.

Also while at Midas, they took the cover off of the brake fluid reservoir
and now the brakes seem to squeek a lot.  Since they took it off and put it
back on, should I bleed the brake system?

Thanks...

Erik --- '91 Stealth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:21:00 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???

>I took it for a brake inspection at a Midas shop and they found a tear
>in the Outer Axel Boot on the drivers side of the car.

You gotta get it fixed. If the grease gets out and dirt gets in, the half
shaft will go south quickly. Replacing the boot is a pain but not
particularly difficult. Even Midas should be able to handle it.

>
>Also while at Midas, they took the cover off of the brake fluid reservoir
>and now the brakes seem to squeek a lot.  Since they took it off and put it
>back on, should I bleed the brake system?

Nah. Only if you feel a soft pedal or you're going racin'. The squeak is
something else -- maybe dirt or grease on the pads from Midas handling them
with greasy fingers.

Rich/slow old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:17:46 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???

I once patched a ripped CV boot with a bicycle tire patch. This was in an
emergency situation, and i had it properly repaired at my earliest
inconvenience. The problem with simply patching the hole is you have no way
to replace the grease that has spewed out while the boot was ripped. It's
only a matter of time before you need to replace the whole joint or axle
due to lack of lubrication.

Wayne

At 10:06 PM 1/10/02 -0700, Erik Petterson wrote:
>Hello this is my first posting to the list.  I just bought a 1991 Dodge
>Stealth about a week ago.  Most everything on the car is in great condition.
>I took it for a brake inspection at a Midas shop and they found a tear
>in the Outer Axel Boot on the drivers side of the car.  I have downloaded
>the CAPS program and it is part number 32014R (labeled "C" in the
>illustration)  I am wondering if I can put some grease in there and then
>seal up the boot with something.  The tear is about 3 inches long and it
>runs along one of the bends, (i.e. it doesn't cut accross the bands, it runs
>parralel along the top of one).  Any other suggestions on this matter or any
>help would be greatly appreciated.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:30:11 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter

> > Many good turbo ECU's also reduce boost if knock is detected. I do not
> > think any of the ECU's that we are talking about are capable of this,
> > although a guy at AEM told me that his unit could be set up to do this.
>
>Yes, but again with their own knock sensor. 99% not compatible with the
>Mitsu one. Maybe it could be positioned in the same bracket but then it must
>be tuned in to the engines characteristic. Hey this is a job engineers are
>doing on an engine dyno with analysing histograms and voice records on
>several parts on the engine.

Guys, for those of you who are curious, I would recommend downloading AEM
EMS software. It is almost functional and is really cool. It has knock
sensor calibration screen, which means it could be set up to for any knock
sensor including stock. My buddy told me that the way to calibrate a knock
sensor would be to run a car from low rpm to redline when you know you do
not have knock and record sensor noise. Then if knock appears it will be
above that baseline noise. Anything below it is not knock. Sounds too
simple to be true but I think he knows what he is talking about and I tent
to buy into this too. Check out the AEM EMS knock calibration screen, it is
self-explanatory.

> > Brian from GT-Pro told me that they are almost ready to come out with a
> > plug and play ECU which is not Autronic.
>
>Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?

More info from Brian:
 >The base unit is made by Link Electro Systems of New Zeland, and is being
 >made specifically for us through our own R&D as well as being a "private
 >lable". We are doing the development, and should be finished next week.

 >yes it will have additional drivers for WI, NOS and multiple coils, will
 >have datalogging on board, be windows based software, program by PC and or
 >hand held programmer.

> > This is very cool for us to have
> > several new plug and play 3S ECU's coming out all at once because it seems
> > like even Autronic SM2 is lacking some necessary features.
>
>Some are good designs and lack of software others have a great software but
>the hardware is limited. The AEM soudns not bad ... but then the question
>rises again : does it work in our cars too ?

If someone shows me that their ECU works on our cars without glitches I
would still be skeptical about their ability to control boost. Hey,
companies like Blitz, HKS, and Apexi make their living on making responsive
and stable boost controllers. Many of them are self-learning and have tons
of good stuff in them. But ECU companies consider boost control an option
and I bet their boost control is not nearly as advanced. I think you almost
certainly have to buy a waste gate solenoid valve with any of the ECU's.
But I can always use a separate boost controller instead.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:42:22 -0600
From: Fred Martinez <frekiy@mac.com>
Subject: Team3S: Motor oil type

Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn the
most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This car,
although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs of
it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found how
too's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.
Thanks,
Fred

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:43:02 -0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Anyone know how the bearing coding works?

Hi Matt,

Try cleaning up the marks on the block.  My 91 block
was fairly easy to read, but my 93 block was
dirty/rusty.  I used lacquer thinner and 360 grit
sandpaper to be able to see the marks.

The marks seem to be made with parallel bars
ie --> ||   ||   ||  ||
not letters like T or Z.

What did your mains measure??  That determines the
"Classification" in the 6G72 DOHC table.  The next
column doesn't apply cause your crank is original not
a replacement.

Goeff Mohler suggested I use the BLUE micrometer to
get a more accurate reading.  LOL

Be of good cheer,
John

- --- "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
wrote:
> So during my rebuild I picked the Pink coded main
> bearings to put in (not
> realizing that the originals were color coded also -
> and were coded Green,
> aparantly).
>
> John Christian shared a couple pages from the
> Rebuild Manaual (that weren't
> in my PDF version of the manual) and there is a
> reference chart that's
> something like this:
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Crankshaft Journal          |Cyl. Block|Crank   |
>                             |Brng. Bore|Bearing |
>                             |Diameter  |        |
> -------------------------------------------------
> Classifi-|ID mark|Outer dia.|ID Mark   |ID Color|
> Cation   |(serv. |mm(in)    |          |        |
>          |part)  |          |          |        |
> -------------------------------------------------
>    1     |Yellow |59.990-   |   I      | Pink   |
>          |       |59.996    |   II     | Red    |
>          |       |(2.3618-  |   III    | Green  |
>          |       |2.3620)   |          |        |
> -------------------------------------------------
>    2     |None   |59.984-   |   I      | Red    |
>          |       |59.990    |   II     | Green  |
>          |       |(2.3616-  |   III    | Black  |
>          |       |2.3618)   |          |        |
> -------------------------------------------------
>    3     |White  |59.978-   |   I      | Green  |
>          |       |59.984    |   II     | Black  |
>          |       |(2.3613-  |   III    | Brown  |
>          |       |2.3616)   |          |        |
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> It further explains that on the block there are a
> set of marks near the
> tranny mount flange.  Something like this:
>
>     xxxxxxxx   - Cylinder block bore size mark
>     xxxxxxxx   - """"  (Reference)
>
>    xxxxxxxxx   - Cyl. Block bearing bore dia. ID
>
>
> On my motor it has marks like this:
>
>     ZZT
>     TTT
>
>   Z
>   ZZZZ
>
> So what do my marks mean, exactly?  I can't figure
> out how it refers to the
> green main bearings that were originally installed
> in my motor by
> Mitsubishi.  How does "ZZZZ" become Classification
> 1, ID mark III?  I don't
> understand.
>
> I figured out that the Pink main bearings are
> apparantly the largest bearing
> shell available, just by seeing that the colors move
> towards larger bore
> sizes in the chart (ie: Green is a III in Class 1,
> then II in Class II
> bores, etc).  All my oil clearances were within
> tolerances with the Pink
> bearings though, even though they are technically
> two sizes tighter than the
> Green ones.
>
> Is that okay, or do I need to pull the crank back
> out and install Green
> bearings, even though the clearances checked out?
> If I try to interpret the
> chart, I come to the conclusion that the Pinks
> should be about .001-.002mm
> tighter than the original Greens.
>
> Tolerances are 0.020 - 0.050mm and my clearances
> were all almost exactly
> 0.032mm measured with Plastigage.
>
> Anyone done this before?  This information is on
> page 11E-157 of the Engine
> Rebuild manual.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

=====
Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 03:48:37 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil type

Fred,

I saw somewhere about the "flip" style of oil plug but have not
installed that yet on mine.  If you can find it (on someone's web page)
then it seems well worth it.

Otherwise most people just stick with Full synthetic or a synthetic
blend of oil (Mobil 1 is a very common brand on this list as is the Red
Line brand ... the latter of which can be purchased from our own Admin,
Geoff Mohler from www.speedtoys.com I believe).

Get the stock filter as I have not seen anything in this line for a
while and it works for so many of us there is no need changing that yet.

How long has it been since the 60/120/150/180k tune-up?  You might want
to check something general like hoses, gaskets, leaks, etc. while you
are under the car.  Welcome to the world.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
5W/30 Mobil 1 synthetic in for the winter months

- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred Martinez
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 01:42
 
Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn
the
most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This
car,
although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs
of
it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found
how
too's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 03:57:44 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil type

Fred,

Just remember that the common "ticking" sound might be when the oil is
too low and not just the lifters.

Remember to make sure you do not overfill the oil (like some oil places
do even though we TELL them to use 4 quarts they go and put in a full 5
... silly folk).

And remember to put the plug back in the bottom and the cap back on the
top.  I'm sure there are some good stories on here about stuff like
that.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred Martinez
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 01:42
 
Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn
the
most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This
car,
although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs
of
it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found
how
too's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:13:01 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Team3S: OT : Must see and hear (fun)

Turn your sound on and you can hear a Formula 1 racing !!!

http://www.very.de/

Very funny
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 05:30:09 -0500
From: "Bill vP" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT : Must see and hear (fun)

hmm, is this a VlRUS, or not?  Anybody check it out?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 5:13 AM
Subject: Team3S: OT : Must see and hear (fun)

> Turn your sound on and you can hear a Formula 1 racing !!!
>
> http://www.very.de/
>
> Very funny
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 02:05:43 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@mvplabels.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type

Welcome, Fred!  The stock filter is the best - (it's a bit cheaper at Mitsu
dealers, BTW).  Mobil-1 10W30 is preferred by most of us; (it's on sale at
Costco lately: 6 Qts for $22).  Change oil every 3k miles or so, and change
the filter every other oil change.  Since you're a "Stealth newbie", check
the FAQ Index for quick'n'easy "how-to" mods for a few extra HP: "NT Mods -
Removing the Resonator" (Modifications Section) (free) and replacing the
stock airbox with a K&N FIPK (~$150) "Air Filters - Stock vs Aftermarket"
(Maintenance Section) will net you an additional 10 HP or so...
www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm

Best,

Forrest

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Martinez" <frekiy@mac.com>
> Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn the
most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This car,
although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs of
it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found how
too's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Fred

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:21:17 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: First Datalog

>I finally entered the datalog age this evening.  With an ambient temp. of
>approx. 40F and my boost set to 18psi, I recorded a few 2nd to 6500 and 3rd
>to 6500rpm runs.
>   Fortunately, after reviewing the log, I only got 1 knock
>sum response.  It took me awile to find it, and I was beginning to think my
>sensor wasn't functioning.  I finally located one peek with max value of 17.

Well, at this temperature the intake temp is so low and air that dense than
usually I would have expected a little knock around 5800. Do the test again
at 60°F and you'll find a little more, then at 68°F as this is where the
engines ECU often are calibrated to. At 80°F knock will start to appear
heavily and above 90°F knock will become much higher.

>I'm trying to recall what most have decided is the max safe short term knock
>sum (I already know Roger...it's zero) for those of us living on the edge.

The edge is around a knock sum of 11. Depending on ambient temp, humidity
and barometric pressure you will sooner or later hit this barrier. At
around 11 t o16 the ECU starts to retard the timing to cure the knock. If
retarding doesn't cure knock it even retards the timing more. Therefore it
is possible that you will see those three cases :
a) increasing knock sum, falling timing curve (bad)
b) steady amount of knock sum and falling timing (acceptable)
c) falling knock and rising timing (better)
d) steady amount of knock below 11-13, rising timing (optimal)

Enjoy
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:57:21 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone know how the bearing coding works?

> Try cleaning up the marks on the block.  My
> 91 block was fairly easy to read, but my 93
> block was dirty/rusty.  I used lacquer thinner
> and 360 grit sandpaper to be able to see
> the marks.

My block was hot-tanked, so its perfectly clean.  Its certainly marked with
T's and Z's.

> What did your mains measure??  That determines
> the "Classification" in the 6G72 DOHC table.
> The next column doesn't apply cause your crank
> is original not a replacement.

I didn't measure them.

> Goeff Mohler suggested I use the BLUE micrometer
> to get a more accurate reading.  LOL

Darn, I only have the Fuscia micrometer.  ;-)

I think I'll see if my local dealer has the green main bearings on-hand.  If
he does, I might as well backtrack and put those in.  Ugh.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:52:33 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: rebuild manual

Your post on bearing selection refers to a rebuild manual --- it dosn't
seem to be part of the CD version nor the paper version of the car
manual. Is there a copy of this online somewhere ???


        Jim Berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>

>
> John Christian shared a couple pages from the Rebuild Manaual (that weren't
> in my PDF version of the manual) and there is a reference chart that's
> something like this:

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:57:44 -0800
From: "Jamie Marzonie" <jsmarzonie@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type

RedLine 10W40, perfect for turbo cars.. esp. ones that have oil cooled
turbos.  I try to use Amsoil filters.. but Purolator Pure One filters are
good, but offer slightly less flow.  The K&N filters are really nice, but
don't last worth anything (high flow design, you'll have to change this one
more often)

The RedLine oil need not be replaced every 3k.  I typically replace it every
6-7K (oil in non-extreme duty environment is claimed to not need a full
change until 18K miles), so I just replace the filter every 3K, and whatever
oil was lost due to the filter change.

>From: Fred Martinez <frekiy@mac.com>
>To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Team3S: Motor oil type
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:42:22 -0600
>
>Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
>loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn the
>most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This car,
>although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs of
>it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
>archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found how
>too's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Fred

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:01:08 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: rebuild manual

> Your post on bearing selection refers to a rebuild manual ---
> it dosn't seem to be part of the CD version nor the paper
> version of the car manual. Is there a copy of this online
> somewhere ???

It isn't in Vineet's PDF version that I have either, so the version he
scanned must be incomplete (or there's a better version of the manual
available).

Here's the pages that John sent me:

http://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/mainbearingchart.pdf

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:24:58 -0600
From: Kar-Yeong Teoh <karyeong@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: 5-30W Mobil 1

Hi,

I'm gonna change my oil and I got myself som 5-30W Mobil 1
tri-synthetic. Any reason I should only use 10-30 and not the 5-30? It's
for my 95 Stealth RT/TT

Much appreciated.

Kar-Yeong

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:08:49 -0500
From: "omnitech" <omnitech@fast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 5-30W Mobil 1

I used Mobile 1 5-30W in my 92 Stealth RT/TT, and the engine
tapped like there was no tomorrow. I'm now using Quaker
state 10-30W Synthetic, now my engine purrs like a kitten.

> Hi,
>
> I'm gonna change my oil and I got myself som 5-30W Mobil 1
> tri-synthetic. Any reason I should only use 10-30 and not
> the 5-30? It's
> for my 95 Stealth RT/TT
>
> Much appreciated.
>
> Kar-Yeong

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:17:47 -0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split Se cond Intake/ Fuel Comuter

Hoods do seem to be shipping now.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill vP [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:43 PM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter

I think what Roger meant was "What do you think he would tell you."

We all know of the hoods that were always "just around the corner"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
To: "'Roger Gerl'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>; <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter

> "Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?"
>
> Roger,
>
> He has been telling anyone who will listen.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Gerl [mailto:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 5:06 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
> Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
> > What is "knock control"? Do you guys mean ignition retard if knock is
> > detected?
>
> Yes, this would be the definition, although we'd be hapyy if we only could
> read or even log knock with such "standalone" ECUs.
>
> > Many good turbo ECU's also reduce boost if knock is detected. I do not
> > think any of the ECU's that we are talking about are capable of this,
> > although a guy at AEM told me that his unit could be set up to do this.
>
> Yes, but again with their own knock sensor. 99% not compatible with the
> Mitsu one. Maybe it could be positioned in the same bracket but then it
must
> be tuned in to the engines characteristic. Hey this is a job engineers are
> doing on an engine dyno with analysing histograms and voice records on
> several parts on the engine.
>
> > Brian from GT-Pro told me that they are almost ready to come out with a
> > plug and play ECU which is not Autronic.
>
> Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?
>
> > This is very cool for us to have
> > several new plug and play 3S ECU's coming out all at once because it
seems
> > like even Autronic SM2 is lacking some necessary features.
>
> Some are good designs and lack of software others have a great software
but
> the hardware is limited. The AEM soudns not bad ... but then the question
> rises again : does it work in our cars too ?
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:21:25 -0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> After market ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split S econd Intake/ Fuel Comuter

You will have to buy a different boost control solenoid with GT
Pro's ECU replacement called Pro-Link 2.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Philip V. Glazatov [mailto:gphilip@umich.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:30 PM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter

> > Many good turbo ECU's also reduce boost if knock is detected. I do not
> > think any of the ECU's that we are talking about are capable of this,
> > although a guy at AEM told me that his unit could be set up to do this.
>
>Yes, but again with their own knock sensor. 99% not compatible with the
>Mitsu one. Maybe it could be positioned in the same bracket but then it
must
>be tuned in to the engines characteristic. Hey this is a job engineers are
>doing on an engine dyno with analysing histograms and voice records on
>several parts on the engine.

Guys, for those of you who are curious, I would recommend downloading AEM
EMS software. It is almost functional and is really cool. It has knock
sensor calibration screen, which means it could be set up to for any knock
sensor including stock. My buddy told me that the way to calibrate a knock
sensor would be to run a car from low rpm to redline when you know you do
not have knock and record sensor noise. Then if knock appears it will be
above that baseline noise. Anything below it is not knock. Sounds too
simple to be true but I think he knows what he is talking about and I tent
to buy into this too. Check out the AEM EMS knock calibration screen, it is
self-explanatory.

> > Brian from GT-Pro told me that they are almost ready to come out with a
> > plug and play ECU which is not Autronic.
>
>Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?

More info from Brian:
 >The base unit is made by Link Electro Systems of New Zeland, and is being
 >made specifically for us through our own R&D as well as being a "private
 >lable". We are doing the development, and should be finished next week.

 >yes it will have additional drivers for WI, NOS and multiple coils, will
 >have datalogging on board, be windows based software, program by PC and or
 >hand held programmer.

> > This is very cool for us to have
> > several new plug and play 3S ECU's coming out all at once because it
seems
> > like even Autronic SM2 is lacking some necessary features.
>
>Some are good designs and lack of software others have a great software but
>the hardware is limited. The AEM soudns not bad ... but then the question
>rises again : does it work in our cars too ?

If someone shows me that their ECU works on our cars without glitches I
would still be skeptical about their ability to control boost. Hey,
companies like Blitz, HKS, and Apexi make their living on making responsive
and stable boost controllers. Many of them are self-learning and have tons
of good stuff in them. But ECU companies consider boost control an option
and I bet their boost control is not nearly as advanced. I think you almost
certainly have to buy a waste gate solenoid valve with any of the ECU's.
But I can always use a separate boost controller instead.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:23:46 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing

How long did it take for those hoods though, this ecu has been "arriving
soon" for at least 3 months+ now.........

give out "factual" information but say a release date has not yet been
finalized.   Not they will be arriving soon.

Hey but what do I know, I am just the consumer :/

Russ F
CT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:18 PM
> To: 'Bill vP'; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro
> Split Se cond Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
>
> Hoods do seem to be shipping now.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill vP [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:43 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
> Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
>
> I think what Roger meant was "What do you think he would tell you."
>
> We all know of the hoods that were always "just around the corner"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
> To: "'Roger Gerl'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>; <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:13 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
> Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
>
> > "Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?"
> >
> >
> > Roger,

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:48:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing

I still have no hood.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Furman, Russell wrote:

> How long did it take for those hoods though, this ecu has been "arriving
> soon" for at least 3 months+ now.........
>
> give out "factual" information but say a release date has not yet been
> finalized.   Not they will be arriving soon.
>
> Hey but what do I know, I am just the consumer :/
>
> Russ F
> CT
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:18 PM
> > To: 'Bill vP'; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro
> > Split Se cond Intake/ Fuel Comuter
> >
> >
> > Hoods do seem to be shipping now.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill vP [mailto:billvp@highstream.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:43 PM
> > To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
> > Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
> >
> >
> > I think what Roger meant was "What do you think he would tell you."
> >
> > We all know of the hoods that were always "just around the corner"
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
> > To: "'Roger Gerl'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>; <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:13 PM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
> > Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
> >
> >
> > > "Oh yes, ... do you really think he'd tell you ?"
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger,

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:33:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing

Bingo.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Cody Graham wrote:

> For a car you don't have...
>
> -Cody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Geoff Mohler
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:48 PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Cc: 'Floyd, Jim'; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing
>
> I still have no hood.
>
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
> > How long did it take for those hoods though, this ecu has been
> "arriving
> > soon" for at least 3 months+ now.........
> >
> > give out "factual" information but say a release date has not yet been
> > finalized.   Not they will be arriving soon.
> >
> > Hey but what do I know, I am just the consumer :/
> >
> > Russ F
> > CT

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:55:26 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing ADMIN REMINDER !!

Dear Members,

Please note that we are NOT a chat board  !!! Chatting messages is not what
the list is for and therefore please send the messages to each of the people
you want to chat with alone and not to the list.

Thanks
Roger for the admins

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:05:20 -0800
From: "Pete" <pbozanich@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: Grills

If your looking for a billet grill. TRENZ makes them for 94-96. Contact
dcourtney@trenz.com. Tell him your part of team3s. and Pete Bozanich said to
contact you. Check out there web site they make some awesome billet stuff.
regards,
Pete, 91 Black VR4
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Christian" <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
To: <daedel@mac.com>; <team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Grills

> Hi Eric,
>
> Here are pics of the screens on my cars.  Pick up some
> storm door Al screening at your local hardware store
> and cut a piece to fit.  Or you could use Stainless
> Steel screening.
>
> Cut screen about 1 to 2 inches larger and form it
> around the backside of the foglight/IC opening.  Use
> construction adhesive (liquid nails) to secure it in
> place.  Or you can use Al pop rivets.  Make sure you
> rough up the back surface and clean with something
> like lacquer thinner.
>
> In addition, you could wear a bra.
>
> See you on the track sometime when I get my engines
> fixed.  )-:)   Hope to make Road Atlanta March 9&10.
>
> Be of good cheer in the New Year,
> John
>
>
> --- daedel@mac.com wrote:
> > I bought a set on ebay for my 94. It looks really
> > good and has little
> > sticky pads on it to keep the grills in place. Its
> > just steel chicken
> > mesh, but thats all thats really needed. I'll email
> > privately with the
> > name of the seller when I find his name.
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 07:15 PM, Gross, Erik
> > wrote:
> >
> > > So is anyone making grills (stainless, painted, or
> > otherwise protected)
> > > for
> > > the front and side openings on our cars?  As in
> > the radiator opening,
> > > the IC
> > > openings, and the side (mildly functionally) rear
> > brake inlets?  I know
> > > there were some for sale on 3si a while back, but
> > AFAIK, no one is
> > > currently
> > > making them.  I don't want the fins on my new
> > side-mount intercoolers
> > > to be
> > > bent up by rocks, so I was thinking a functional
> > set of grills might be
> > > nice.   Anyone know where to get them?  Or where I
> > can get high-quality
> > > parts to make them?
> > >
> > > --Erik
> > > '95 VR-4
>
> =====
> Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
> '93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
> 12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
> http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:12:48 -0800
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

I am rebuilding my motor and was told about a process that removes
the sharp edges on the crank and painting it so oil flows off faster
and smoother.

My thought...and please don't hesitate to rip me one for asking but
give me your thoughts back.

1) re-work the crank with smoothing and radii on sharp edges
2) heat treat to hold higher rpm loads
3) ream out oil holes for better flow
4) powder coat everything a bearing doesn't touch
5) grind and polish for assembly

not particularly in this order but all 5 to be done.....

shot peen and polish flashing off of rods...re-heat treat as well

ceramic coat forged pistons

have entire rotating assembly balanced both individually as well as
together when all work is done.

This is for my NOS 100 shot motor in the works as I type.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:01:09 -0600
From: overclck@ies.net (Cody Graham)
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing

For a car you don't have...

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:48 PM
To: Furman, Russell
Cc: 'Floyd, Jim'; 'Team 3S'
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Mild GT-PRO Bashing

I still have no hood.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Furman, Russell wrote:

> How long did it take for those hoods though, this ecu has been
"arriving
> soon" for at least 3 months+ now.........
>
> give out "factual" information but say a release date has not yet been
> finalized.   Not they will be arriving soon.
>
> Hey but what do I know, I am just the consumer :/
>
> Russ F
> CT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:20:10 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual

Chris --- thanks for trying ---- talk to Jeff Lucius or Bob and see if
we can post the missing info.

I'm a little confused about the source of this part of the manual, I have
the factory manuals and the CD version and neither of them have the
information Matt refers to. The CD version goes up to page 11E-122
and the page Matt sent me a copy of is 11E-157. Does that mean we're
missing part of the manual or is there another complete rebuild manual.

    Jim Berry
===========================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Pierce <piercera@pacbell.net>
To: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual

> Jim - I tried dending it and it was returned (yes too large)
>
>
> If no one else comes through with the post, we can check with Bob Forrest to
> see if Team3S can act as the middle man for it.  Let me know if there's
> something else I can do.
>
> Best, Rick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> To: "Rick Pierce" <piercera@pacbell.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual
>
> > I took a quick at jeff's site and didn't see it ???
> >
> > You can try to email it to me but I think there's a 3 meg limit on my
> emails.
> > I'd appreciate it --- I'm starting to have the machining done on the
> block, I
> > got the Pauter rods [ at least they look cool ] and the pistons are on the
> way.
> >
> > My credit card is still overheated.
> >
> >         Jim Berry
> > =============================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rick Pierce <piercera@pacbell.net>
> > To: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual
> >
> >
> > > Hey Jim - hope that engine of yours is going well.  I have the manual
> but I
> > > forgot where I got it from - poss. Jeff Lucius site.  Let me know if you
> > > want it - 4.3 mg acrobat file and I'll e-mail it to you.
> > >
> > > Best, Rick
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> > > To: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>;
> <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 7:52 AM
> > > Subject: Team3S: rebuild manual
> > >
> > >
> > > > Your post on bearing selection refers to a rebuild manual --- it
> dosn't
> > > > seem to be part of the CD version nor the paper version of the car
> > > > manual. Is there a copy of this online somewhere ???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >         Jim Berry
> > > > ==========================================
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
> > > > To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > John Christian shared a couple pages from the Rebuild Manaual (that
> > > weren't
> > > > > in my PDF version of the manual) and there is a reference chart
> that's
> > > > > something like this:
> > > >
> > > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:31:44 -0800
From: Rick Pierce <piercera@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual

Well Jim - I guess you have the same manual as the one I tried to send you
(I don't have the CD), but I too did notice the page numbering discrepancy -
did you notice it was a TSB Revision? A possible explanation is if all the
TSB revisions are at the back of the manuals.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "Rick Pierce" <piercera@pacbell.net>
Cc: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual

> Chris --- thanks for trying ---- talk to Jeff Lucius or Bob and see if
> we can post the missing info.
>
> I'm a little confused about the source of this part of the manual, I have
> the factory manuals and the CD version and neither of them have the
> information Matt refers to. The CD version goes up to page 11E-122
> and the page Matt sent me a copy of is 11E-157. Does that mean we're
> missing part of the manual or is there another complete rebuild manual.
>
>     Jim Berry
> ===========================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Pierce <piercera@pacbell.net>
> To: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual
>
>
> > Jim - I tried dending it and it was returned (yes too large)
> >
> >
> > If no one else comes through with the post, we can check with Bob
Forrest to
> > see if Team3S can act as the middle man for it.  Let me know if there's
> > something else I can do.
> >
> > Best, Rick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> > To: "Rick Pierce" <piercera@pacbell.net>
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual
> >
> >
> > > I took a quick at jeff's site and didn't see it ???
> > >
> > > You can try to email it to me but I think there's a 3 meg limit on my
> > emails.
> > > I'd appreciate it --- I'm starting to have the machining done on the
> > block, I
> > > got the Pauter rods [ at least they look cool ] and the pistons are on
the
> > way.
> > >
> > > My credit card is still overheated.
> > >
> > >         Jim Berry
> > > =============================================
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Rick Pierce <piercera@pacbell.net>
> > > To: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:05 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Jim - hope that engine of yours is going well.  I have the
manual
> > but I
> > > > forgot where I got it from - poss. Jeff Lucius site.  Let me know if
you
> > > > want it - 4.3 mg acrobat file and I'll e-mail it to you.
> > > >
> > > > Best, Rick
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> > > > To: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>;
> > <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 7:52 AM
> > > > Subject: Team3S: rebuild manual
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Your post on bearing selection refers to a rebuild manual --- it
> > dosn't
> > > > > seem to be part of the CD version nor the paper version of the car
> > > > > manual. Is there a copy of this online somewhere ???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >         Jim Berry
> > > > > ==========================================
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
> > > > > To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Christian shared a couple pages from the Rebuild Manaual
(that
> > > > weren't
> > > > > > in my PDF version of the manual) and there is a reference chart
> > that's
> > > > > > something like this:

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:20:45 -0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Anti-Sway bars for the Turbo cars...

I have them both.
They work great.

I also have strut tower braces front and back.
They work good too.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Damon Rachell [mailto:damonr@mefas.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:17 PM
To: 3sracers@speedtoys.com; team3s@speedtoys.com
Subject: Anti-Sway bars for the Turbo cars...

I've contacted two companies who make larger anti-sway bars for the AWD
(turbo) cars. Unfortunately, they don't make larger bars for the NAs but
I'm working on that. The current pricing is as follows:

Rear Bar: Includes urethane bushings and brackets. The stock end link
bushings are used. Total bar diameter is 1".

Manufactured by Quickor Suspension
retail $189
If we get 3-12 people, the price drops to $170.
12+ and the price drops to $151!!!
Contact John Spiva,
Quickor Suspension Co.
P.O. Box 68011
Portland, OR 97268
503-654-2175 / www.quickor.com

Front Bar: Includes urethane midsection bushings and brackets along with
10mm male/female rod end bearings. They are powder coated. Bar diameter
is 1.125". Significantly greater than stock (150% stiffer).

Manufactured by Saner Fabrication
1-2 $195.00 PLUS SHIPPING
3-9 $185.00 PLUS SHIPPING
10-16 $175.00 PLUS SHIPPING
17-25 $165.00 PLUS SHIPPING
26-35 $155.00 PLUS SHIPPING
Contact John Carlson,
1449 SW FLOUNDER LANE
PORT ST. LUCIE, FL 34953
PH / FAX 561-873-0238
www.sanerperffab.com

To answer the questions that I know people will ask, the purpose of
Anti-sway bars, or commonly refered to as just sway bars, is to reduce
body roll during turning. A stiffer bar will reduce the body roll
WITHOUT DECREASING THE RIDE QUALITY!!! The less the body roll, the
greater the tire patch on the ground, the greater the ultimate grip.
Want to handle like the miatas and MR-spiders? These bars will do it!!!

Those of you who want to reduce the understeer of the car, get only the
rear bar (car will then be very neutral). Those who want total increase
in ultimate grip, while maintaining the inherent understeer of the car,
get both. With both bars, the car should be able to hold about 0.93-0.95
on street tires! That's up in the ZO6 range!!!

I would not recommend getting only the front since the suspension will
not be tuned or matched. The car will heavily understeer.

If you have any questions, please let me know. I'd also like to keep a
list going so we can track the cost.

I'm in for a rear bar.
Thanks
Damon Rachell
__________________
1992 Pearl White R/T TT w/ GTPro GT347s, Blitz DSBC, Nippon Seki
Heads-Up Display Boost/Turbo Timer, Eibachs, Cusco STB, Kumho Victoracer
V700s (these Mo-Fos stick like glue!), Porterfield R4 pads and slotted
rotors all around.
1997 Black Grand Prix GTP w/ full suspension (front & rear antisway
bars, front & rear strut tower braces, Urothane bushings, KYB shocks)
Future mods? Duh, of course!

'Those who say "There's no replacement for displacement" have never been
blown in a car. I mean in a blown car.' DR

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:28:43 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

> I am rebuilding my motor and was told about a process that
> removes the sharp edges on the crank and painting it so oil
> flows off faster and smoother.

Knife-edging, I would presume...  You could do it - yeah.  I personally
don't think it helps all that much but if you want to make an all-out effort
motor then why not.  Balancing it might be a little tricky, but if the shop
knows what they are doing it shouldn't be a problem.

> 1) re-work the crank with smoothing and radii on sharp edges

Yeah.  Expensive for minimal gains, but it can be done.

> 2) heat treat to hold higher rpm loads

Heat treating won't really help it for higher RPM operation.  The later
cranks (93+?) are nitrided already so in essence that's already done.

> 3) ream out oil holes for better flow

They are already pretty good in stock form.  You don't want to go too crazy
enlarging the journal holes.  The holes on my crank were chamfered from the
factory.  Not much to be done there...

> 4) powder coat everything a bearing doesn't touch

Why?  Wouldn't the powdercoating process un-heat-treat the crank as well?  I
don't know, I'm just asking.  Might need to rebalance after the
powercoating.  Seems like extra work for zero gain.  Is powdercoat oil/gas
resistant?

> 5) grind and polish for assembly

If you mean polishing the journals then yes.  Depends what you plan on
grinding.

> shot peen and polish flashing off of rods...re-heat treat as well

Why re-heat-treat the rods?  Maybe you'd be better off starting with new
rods and just grinding off any flashing.  Polish is kinda overkill - but if
you have the time/money then I suppose why not.

> ceramic coat forged pistons

I thought about that, but decided against it.  Not really sure why, but I
did.

> have entire rotating assembly balanced both individually as
> well as together when all work is done.

Pretty much required when changing from the stock pistons.  Any forged
piston is likely to be significantly heavier than the stock ones.

> This is for my NOS 100 shot motor in the works as I type.

What else have you done to it?  Turbos/fuel/etc?  Why NOS?

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:41:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

> Knife-edging, I would presume...  You could do it - yeah.  I personally
> don't think it helps all that much but if you want to make an all-out effort
> motor then why not.  Balancing it might be a little tricky, but if the shop
> knows what they are doing it shouldn't be a problem.
- ---
I had two well-known rebuilders tell me it wasnt worth the $..although
some gains can be had.
 
> > 3) ream out oil holes for better flow
> factory.  Not much to be done there...
- ---
Id not.  Ive seen ppl on other forums do this, and have serious oil
pressure problems later on.

Pressure is created by resistance to flow.  Chamfer at most.
 
> > 4) powder coat everything a bearing doesn't touch
>
> Why?  Wouldn't the powdercoating process un-heat-treat the crank as well?  I
> don't know, I'm just asking.  Might need to rebalance after the
> powercoating.  Seems like extra work for zero gain.  Is powdercoat oil/gas
> resistant?
- ---
Dont do this inside the motor...or even outside.

Oil is a major coolant in your motor, the rough surface in the block aids
cooling actually, the same goes outside the motor..noneed to insulate it.

> Pretty much required when changing from the stock pistons.  Any forged
> piston is likely to be significantly heavier than the stock ones.
- ---
Thats a joke right?  My new Celica pistons are about 1/2 the weight of the
OEM forged pistons.
 
> > This is for my NOS 100 shot motor in the works as I type.
- ---
Youre doing all this, for only a 100 shot?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:50:30 -0500
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

>1) re-work the crank with smoothing and radii on sharp edges
If you wish. Might make it less rigid but a little stronger by removing
stress concentrators.

>2) heat treat to hold higher rpm loads
Isn't it heat treated already? I really do not know. Heat treating will
warp it and you will have to regrind it, which won't make it any stronger,
unless of course you have to regrind it anyway.

>3) ream out oil holes for better flow
Oil flow it limited by main and rod bearing clearances and not by oil feed
hole diameters. Do not do it. Just make sure that those holes have smooth
edges where they touch bearing shells.

>4) powder coat everything a bearing doesn't touch
What will that do? Reduce heat transfer?

>5) grind and polish for assembly
Good idea it the journals are worn.

I have an idea. If you want to be creative then install squirters to shoot
oil on the pistons from underneath to cool them. Will probably need a
high-flow or separate oil pump for those. This will let you run a little
more boost or NOS.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:03:36 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

> I have an idea. If you want to be creative then install
> squirters to shoot oil on the pistons from underneath to cool
> them. Will probably need a high-flow or separate oil pump for
> those. This will let you run a little more boost or NOS.

The factory turbo block already has oil sprayers.  You can replace the
sprayers though as an extra safety precaution.

(Why does your e-mailer hose up the reply-all to the list?  It puts your
e-mail (pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com) and a "DoNotEmailHere@umich.edu" in the
reply line.)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:08:52 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

>> Pretty much required when changing from the stock pistons. 
>> Any forged piston is likely to be significantly heavier
>> than the stock ones.

> Thats a joke right?  My new Celica pistons are about 1/2 the
> weight of the OEM forged pistons.

No, it wasn't a joke on mine.  The GTPro/Ross piston design was
significantly (more than a couple grams) heavier than the stock Mitsubishi
pistons.  Other designs may be different, but if your Celica ones were 1/2
the weight of stock I'd be worried that they are going to be durable enough
(especially if the stockers were already forged aluminum).  Where'd all that
material get shaved from?

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:14:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

>
> No, it wasn't a joke on mine.  The GTPro/Ross piston design was
> significantly (more than a couple grams) heavier than the stock Mitsubishi
> pistons.  Other designs may be different, but if your Celica ones were 1/2
> the weight of stock I'd be worried that they are going to be durable enough
> (especially if the stockers were already forged aluminum).  Where'd all that
> material get shaved from?
- ---
Mostly the skirts were severely shortened, and because we also moved the
pin height up about 1/4", it was even further shortened.  Then we
installed 7MGTE cylinder squirters (higher flow) and the TTE rally oil
pump to compensate.  The pistons are a current in-use design, and have
made over 600Hp in other cars.  Im only pushing about 400crank HP in this
motor tho.  We also added an anti-detonation groove to the ring lands as
well.

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:07:06 -0800
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Team3S: Upgraded anti-sway bars...

I've contacted two companies who make larger anti-sway bars for the AWD
(turbo) cars. Unfortunately, they don't make larger bars for the NAs but
I'm working on that. The current pricing is as follows:

Rear Bar: Includes urethane bushings and brackets. The stock end link
bushings are used. Total bar diameter is 1".

Manufactured by Quickor Suspension
retail $189
If we get 3-12 people, the price drops to $170.
12+ and the price drops to $151!!!
Contact John Spiva,
Quickor Suspension Co.
P.O. Box 68011
Portland, OR 97268
503-654-2175 / www.quickor.com

Front Bar: Includes urethane midsection bushings and brackets along with
10mm male/female rod end bearings. They are powder coated. Bar diameter
is 1.125". Significantly greater than stock (150% stiffer).

Manufactured by Saner Fabrication
1-2 $195.00 PLUS SHIPPING
3-9 $185.00 PLUS SHIPPING
10-16 $175.00 PLUS SHIPPING
17-25 $165.00 PLUS SHIPPING
26-35 $155.00 PLUS SHIPPING
Contact John Carlson,
1449 SW FLOUNDER LANE
PORT ST. LUCIE, FL 34953
PH / FAX 561-873-0238
www.sanerperffab.com

To answer the questions that I know people will ask, the purpose of
Anti-sway bars, or commonly refered to as just sway bars, is to reduce
body roll during turning. A stiffer bar will reduce the body roll
WITHOUT DECREASING THE RIDE QUALITY!!! The less the body roll, the
greater the tire patch on the ground, the greater the ultimate grip.
Want to handle like the miatas and MR-spiders? These bars will do it!!!

Those of you who want to reduce the understeer of the car, get only the
rear bar (car will then be very neutral). Those who want total increase
in ultimate grip, while maintaining the inherent understeer of the car,
get both. With both bars, the car should be able to hold about 0.93-0.95
on street tires! That's up in the ZO6 range!!!

I would not recommend getting only the front since the suspension will
not be tuned or matched. The car will heavily understeer.

If you have any questions, please let me know. I'd also like to keep a
list going so we can track the cost.

I'm in for a rear bar.
Thanks
Damon Rachell

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:22:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual

These pages are from the 1992-1996 Engine Overhaul Manual. This is
the "third volume" in the 2-volume set of Mitsu 1992-1996 3000GT
service manuals. The '92-'96 Engine Overhaul Manual is separate but
purchasable. Pub. No. is MSSP-201B-96. The pub. date 1999.

If a PDF copy of the 161 pages of section 11E (6G72) is available,
maybe Team3S will host it or maybe Vinny will include it in the next
version of Manuals on CD. This manual should be available from the
dealer and some used book shops. I got mine from
http://www.books4cars.com/ .

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> To: "Rick Pierce" <piercera@pacbell.net>
> Cc: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: rebuild manual
>
>
> Chris --- thanks for trying ---- talk to Jeff Lucius or Bob and see
> if we can post the missing info.
>
> I'm a little confused about the source of this part of the manual,

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:33:47 -0800
From: Damon Rachell <damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Team3S: Upgraded anti-sway bars

I've contacted two companies who make larger anti-sway bars for the AWD
(turbo) cars. Unfortunately, they don't make larger bars for the NAs but
I'm working on that. The current pricing is as follows:

Rear Bar: Includes urethane bushings and brackets. The stock end link
bushings are used. Total bar diameter is 1".

Manufactured by Quickor Suspension
retail $189
If we get 3-12 people, the price drops to $170.
12+ and the price drops to $151!!!
Contact John Spiva,
Quickor Suspension Co.
P.O. Box 68011
Portland, OR 97268
503-654-2175 / www.quickor.com


Front Bar: Includes urethane midsection bushings and brackets along with
10mm male/female rod end bearings. They are powder coated. Bar diameter
is 1.125". Significantly greater than stock (150% stiffer).

Manufactured by Saner Fabrication
1-2 $195.00 PLUS SHIPPING
3-9 $185.00 PLUS SHIPPING
10-16 $175.00 PLUS SHIPPING
17-25 $165.00 PLUS SHIPPING
26-35 $155.00 PLUS SHIPPING
Contact John Carlson,
1449 SW FLOUNDER LANE
PORT ST. LUCIE, FL 34953
PH / FAX 561-873-0238
www.sanerperffab.com

To answer the questions that I know people will ask, the purpose of
Anti-sway bars, or commonly refered to as just sway bars, is to reduce
body roll during turning. A stiffer bar will reduce the body roll
WITHOUT DECREASING THE RIDE QUALITY!!! The less the body roll, the
greater the tire patch on the ground, the greater the ultimate grip.
Want to handle like the miatas and MR-spiders? These bars will do it!!!

Those of you who want to reduce the understeer of the car, get only the
rear bar (car will then be very neutral). Those who want total increase
in ultimate grip, while maintaining the inherent understeer of the car,
get both. With both bars, the car should be able to hold about 0.93-0.95
on street tires! That's up in the ZO6 range!!!

I would not recommend getting only the front since the suspension will
not be tuned or matched. The car will heavily understeer.

If you have any questions, please let me know. I'd also like to keep a
list going so we can track the cost.

I'm in for a rear bar.
Thanks
Damon Rachell

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:34:21 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

At 04:03 PM 01/11/02, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
>The factory turbo block already has oil sprayers.  You can replace the
>sprayers though as an extra safety precaution.

Cool! Live and learn! I guess this is why our cars have almost no oil
pressure at idle.

>(Why does your e-mailer hose up the reply-all to the list?  It puts your
>e-mail (pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com) and a "DoNotEmailHere@umich.edu" in the
>reply line.)

(Thank you for asking and giving me a hint too ;-) My email server at work
apparently does not know how to send emails to team3S@stealth-3000gt.st. So
I created a dummy forwarding address to send emails through it. But I see
you are sending them to team3s@team3s.com. I will try it instead next time.)

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:44:51 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@mvplabels.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: Last Call: NASA HPDE @ Laguna Seca this weekend!!!

Last Call for 2 days of NASA HPDE (High Performance Driving Events) this
weekend, January 12th & 13th at Laguna Seca.  This is the ONLY event being
held at LS by NASA for the entire year!  (All other HPDE's will be at
Thunderhill and Sears Point).
This is also a family event, with provisions for tagalong kiddies and
(schedule permitting) a Parade Lap on at least one of the days - driving
kids around the track so they may experience what it feels like (at low
speed, of course).  If you just want to watch, it's only $5 for parking, and
$5 if you want to join in the parade lap.  If you want to participate as a
driver, it's $249 per
day; please sign up for the event NOW, since there are quotas for the number
of cars they'll allow.  It's at:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/nasa_event/show/?event_id=1

Looks like the weather will be great!!!

What you can bring:

Helmet for your head if you are planning on racing or riding.  If you want
to grill stuff, bring the meats that you want to grill, buns, condiments,
salt & pepper, etc.  Please bring a small cooler and plenty of drinks for
yourself, since it's easy to get dried out...  Bring a seat if you have one.

I've been away, so I don't have a tally of everyone who's going, but at
least Geoff & Nissa, Bob & ET, Ann Koch are signed on...  A few others said
they will be there, but I have had email problems from hell.  MOF, contact
me privately at a new (temporary) email:
bf@mvplabels.com

See you there!!!

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:22:07 EST
From: NETM1NDER@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Upgraded anti-sway bars...

In a message dated 1/11/02 6:04:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, damonr@mefas.com
writes:

<< :    damonr@mefas.com  >>
:check out tecperformance.com front strut tower brace

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:07:05 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> High RPMs, was-> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split Second

Its been done already.  No virgin territory here.  Dynamic Racing sells a
high rev kit with titanium retainers for about $500 which allows the
valvetrain to reach 8000rpm.  However, power production at that rpm limit
requires that sufficient air and fuel keep up with the motor.  People use
slightly larger intake valves, ported heads and reground camshafts with I
believe .4" lift and 212 deg duration (I think).  I wonder if they make
titanium valves for our cars?

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
To: Todd D.Shelton <tds@brightok.net>
Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> High RPMs, was-> Aftermarket ECU ... was ->
GT-Pro Split Second

>You might be a racer if..
>  Your tach limit is ALWAYS 500 rpm below your standard operating limit.
>
>Seriously, I hope you try to check out Mitsubishi at least, and other
racers who have tried higher rpm operations. Other than motor parts
strength, valve clearances, belt strength and stretch, things like that need
consideration. I don't think 7500 would be much problem, as I'm sure design
allows for that much, but much more and you may be in fairly virgin
territory.
>
>Go very slowly and try to log and get info from anyone else who will
contribute. For me,
>it seems we have a lot of valve float above 7000. I just have an NA, but
that drastic falloff in power has kept me from trying to use much higher
rpm. I'll go to 7200-7300 in 2nd, but usually quit in 3rd at 6500-6800.
Possibly with a cam and better valve springs higher rpm would be useful.  I
certainly know I would LIKE to have an 8000 rpm limit. It would help a bunch
at the drag strip and on road courses.  If the turbos already have much
stiffer valve trains, and the timing belt won't jump teeth, then it is
probably safe.
>
>Hope you get there, just don't want to see a nicely modified 'dead' engine.
>
>Kurt
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Todd D.Shelton [mailto:tds@brightok.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 8:01 PM
>Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
>Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
>To: 'aa2345@wayne.edu' <aa2345@wayne.edu>
>Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Date: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:32 PM
>Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Now -> Aftermarket ECU ... was -> GT-Pro Split
>Second Intake/ Fuel Comuter
>
>>I'll probably start with piggyback to figure out how the car reacts and
>once
>>I'm satisfied that everything is working right and I have some baselines
to
>>go from then try the standalone mode to increase the rev limit to maybe
>>7500-7800 RPM.  The whole rotating assembly on my motor is balanced now,
so
>>I should be able to go higher with relative safety.  If the Knock Alert
>>works well, then I might try setting the standalone to engage as low as
>4000
>>RPM and WOT.
>
>Matt - are you taking steps to maximize hp/torque above 7000 rpm?
>Cams/cam gears etc?  Just curious since generally our torque curve
>starts taking a dive around 6500 or so.  1st/2nd gear not so bad but
>after that .....
>
>>It'll take some experimenting, but I'll share my results with the List.
>
>Please share.  I would like to have more info about the world
>above 7K rpm! [Also the PMS and other mods]
>
>- tds
>
>http://www.brightok.net/~tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:46:24 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type

>>>RedLine 10W40, perfect for turbo cars.. esp. ones that have oil cooled
turbos.  I try to use Amsoil filters.. but Purolator Pure One filters are
good, but offer slightly less flow.  The K&N filters are really nice, but
don't last worth anything (high flow design, you'll have to change this one
more often)>>>

I must disagree slightly...  Although Redline 10W30 (*not* 10W40 or higher,
which are recommended for *worn* engines to help restore compression OR for
extremely hot environments) is an excellent oil for our cars (as are most
synthetics), recent testing (reported last year on this list - check the
archives) and the experiences of many of us on the list has shown Mobil1 to
be a superior oil (albeit slightly).  I don't know if it was from Team3S
folks, but other 3S owner tests showed the stock oil filter to be as good,
if not better, than any others.  I agree that high-flow oil filters are not
recommended, since they allow larger particles to pass through.

>>>The RedLine oil need not be replaced every 3k.  I typically replace it
every 6-7K (oil in non-extreme duty environment is claimed to not need a
full change until 18K miles), so I just replace the filter every 3K, and
whatever oil was lost due to the filter change.>>>

This statement is backwards and needs clarification--  Although standard
engines (read: Detroit Iron) do not require (as) frequent oil changes,
higher-compression (and higher RPM) engines like ours need more protection
from smaller particles, because of the tight tolerances.  It's probably just
a bit of overkill to change at 3k miles, but changing oil frequently is
cheap insurance against engine wear.  But...  You do NOT want to change the
filter with every oil change.  MOF, the oil filter traps smaller particles
as it 'ages', hence the (quite universal) practice of only changing the
filter every OTHER oil change.  The filter works *better* after it catches
the larger particles...

The correct "rule" is:  Change the oil every 3k (approximately), and change
the filter every *other* oil change.

Best,

Forrest

- --------------------------------
>From: Fred Martinez <frekiy@mac.com>
>To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Team3S: Motor oil type
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:42:22 -0600
>
>Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn the
most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This car,
although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs of
it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found
how-to's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Fred

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:42:12 -0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil type

I have seen a marked improvement with Amsoil oil over Mobil 1.  I have
seen numerous tests done by different individuals and companies that
show that the Amsoil is a better oil.  I had a friend who used Amsoil in
his 3000gt and would send his oil for analysis.  He kept the oil in for
9000 miles and the testing company thought that the oil *may* have a
1000 miles at most on it.  My friend called them to verify the results
and they were astounded to hear that it had been used for 9000 miles.  I
am by no means trying to start a flame war between Mobil 1 and Amsoil,
but instead trying to let everyone know that there are oils out there
that have shown to be better then Mobil 1.  I did see a test between
Mobil 1 and Red Line and Mobil 1 was found to be superior. 
 
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest [mailto:bf@bobforrest.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:46 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Cc: Jamie Marzonie; Fred Martinez
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
 
>>>RedLine 10W40, perfect for turbo cars.. esp. ones that have oil
cooled
turbos.  I try to use Amsoil filters.. but Purolator Pure One filters
are
good, but offer slightly less flow.  The K&N filters are really nice,
but
don't last worth anything (high flow design, you'll have to change this
one
more often)>>>

I must disagree slightly...  Although Redline 10W30 (*not* 10W40 or
higher,
which are recommended for *worn* engines to help restore compression OR
for
extremely hot environments) is an excellent oil for our cars (as are
most
synthetics), recent testing (reported last year on this list - check the
archives) and the experiences of many of us on the list has shown Mobil1
to
be a superior oil (albeit slightly).  I don't know if it was from Team3S
folks, but other 3S owner tests showed the stock oil filter to be as
good,
if not better, than any others.  I agree that high-flow oil filters are
not
recommended, since they allow larger particles to pass through.

>>>The RedLine oil need not be replaced every 3k.  I typically replace
it
every 6-7K (oil in non-extreme duty environment is claimed to not need a
full change until 18K miles), so I just replace the filter every 3K, and
whatever oil was lost due to the filter change.>>>

This statement is backwards and needs clarification--  Although standard
engines (read: Detroit Iron) do not require (as) frequent oil changes,
higher-compression (and higher RPM) engines like ours need more
protection
from smaller particles, because of the tight tolerances.  It's probably
just
a bit of overkill to change at 3k miles, but changing oil frequently is
cheap insurance against engine wear.  But...  You do NOT want to change
the
filter with every oil change.  MOF, the oil filter traps smaller
particles
as it 'ages', hence the (quite universal) practice of only changing the
filter every OTHER oil change.  The filter works *better* after it
catches
the larger particles...

The correct "rule" is:  Change the oil every 3k (approximately), and
change
the filter every *other* oil change.

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:49:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

I don't know what oil pressure is at idle (I just have the stock
gauge with no numbers on it), but I don't think the oil jets used for
cooling the pistons (turbo model only) are causing our low idle oil
pressure because the valve is closed (or should be) below 28 psi
(according to STIM p. 9-5).

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- --- "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu> wrote:
> At 04:03 PM 01/11/02, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
> > The factory turbo block already has oil sprayers.  You can
> > replace the sprayers though as an extra safety precaution.
>
> Cool! Live and learn! I guess this is why our cars have almost no
> oil pressure at idle.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:30:49 -0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil type

Here is on comparison http://www.knowyouroil.com/dyno.htm
<http://www.knowyouroil.com/dyno.htm
 
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest [mailto:bf@bobforrest.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:46 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Cc: Jamie Marzonie; Fred Martinez
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
 
>>>RedLine 10W40, perfect for turbo cars.. esp. ones that have oil
cooled
turbos.  I try to use Amsoil filters.. but Purolator Pure One filters
are
good, but offer slightly less flow.  The K&N filters are really nice,
but
don't last worth anything (high flow design, you'll have to change this
one
more often)>>>

I must disagree slightly...  Although Redline 10W30 (*not* 10W40 or
higher,
which are recommended for *worn* engines to help restore compression OR
for
extremely hot environments) is an excellent oil for our cars (as are
most
synthetics), recent testing (reported last year on this list - check the
archives) and the experiences of many of us on the list has shown Mobil1
to
be a superior oil (albeit slightly).  I don't know if it was from Team3S
folks, but other 3S owner tests showed the stock oil filter to be as
good,
if not better, than any others.  I agree that high-flow oil filters are
not
recommended, since they allow larger particles to pass through.

>>>The RedLine oil need not be replaced every 3k.  I typically replace
it
every 6-7K (oil in non-extreme duty environment is claimed to not need a
full change until 18K miles), so I just replace the filter every 3K, and
whatever oil was lost due to the filter change.>>>

This statement is backwards and needs clarification--  Although standard
engines (read: Detroit Iron) do not require (as) frequent oil changes,
higher-compression (and higher RPM) engines like ours need more
protection
from smaller particles, because of the tight tolerances.  It's probably
just
a bit of overkill to change at 3k miles, but changing oil frequently is
cheap insurance against engine wear.  But...  You do NOT want to change
the
filter with every oil change.  MOF, the oil filter traps smaller
particles
as it 'ages', hence the (quite universal) practice of only changing the
filter every OTHER oil change.  The filter works *better* after it
catches
the larger particles...

The correct "rule" is:  Change the oil every 3k (approximately), and
change
the filter every *other* oil change.

Best,

Forrest

- --------------------------------
>From: Fred Martinez <frekiy@mac.com>
>To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Team3S: Motor oil type
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:42:22 -0600
>
>Greetings, I've just joined the wonderful world of 3kS owners and I'm
loving it.  I purchased a '93 base Stealth and I'm attempting to learn
the
most about it possible.  My question is of the proper oil type. This
car,
although well maintained, is high mileage 174k and is showing some signs
of
it.. I'm about to do my first oil change and have looked through the
archives for a preferable type of oil and filter, but have only found
how-to's and the like.  Any help is most appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Fred

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:40:06 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

May I ask what is STIM?

I looked in the manual and it says that oil pressure at curb idle speed kPa
(psi) [Conditions: oil temperature is 75 to 90°C (167 to 194°F)] is 80 KPa
(11.4 psi) or more.

Philip

At 07:49 PM 01/11/02, Jeff Lucius wrote:
>I don't know what oil pressure is at idle (I just have the stock
>gauge with no numbers on it), but I don't think the oil jets used for
>cooling the pistons (turbo model only) are causing our low idle oil
>pressure because the valve is closed (or should be) below 28 psi
>(according to STIM p. 9-5).
>
>Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
>
>--- "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu> wrote:
> > At 04:03 PM 01/11/02, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
> > > The factory turbo block already has oil sprayers.  You can
> > > replace the sprayers though as an extra safety precaution.
> >
> > Cool! Live and learn! I guess this is why our cars have almost no
> > oil pressure at idle.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:02:50 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@mvplabels.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crank re-work advice for short block

> May I ask what is STIM?
- ---------------->

Jeff Lucius' Stealth Technical Information Manual 1991, (very rare and quite
outstanding!),available here at Team3S and on Jeff's website.  It's at:
  www.Team3S.com/STIM91/STIM91.htm

Also, *please* Philip, change your email settings - you are using Cyrillic
alphabet, which screws up our digests and archives (and is against the
rules).  Plain text only, please...

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:18:44 -0500
From: "Gil Gomes" <gil@3kgt.com>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch

I just bought a '96 VR4... I'vef noticed over the past several days
that it's nearly impossible to shift when the car is cold.  It takes
around 3-4 minutes for it to warm up enough to shift properly.
Tonight I noticed a "THUNK" sound when I depressed the clutch
when in gear, preparatory to shifting... When the car warmed up..
the noise disappeared.  I'm concerned this might be a throw out
bearing issue... Any ideas?

Thanx...
- -Gil

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:35:15 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???

Ok one more question:
Will just replacing the boot fix the problem with the grease lost already?
The hole is big enough where I could just stick grease in there by hand, but
I wouldn't know how much to put on it...  The Midas shop wants to charge
like $500 to replace it, they said you have to replace that entire side of
the axel.  Also at the Midas they wrote the width of the rotors on the
rotors themselves with a permanent marker...this may sound stupid, but will
that affect the brakes at all, would that cause them to squeek?  They seem
to squeek when I drive real slow, like through a parking lot, but as soon as
I press the brakes they stop squeeking and just work normal.

(sorry if my questions seem dumb, but this is my first car so......)

Thanks,
Erik --- '91 Stealth

> >I took it for a brake inspection at a Midas shop and they found a tear
> >in the Outer Axel Boot on the drivers side of the car.
>
> > You gotta get it fixed. If the grease gets out and dirt gets in, the
half
> shaft will go south quickly. Replacing the boot is a pain but not
> particularly difficult. Even Midas should be able to handle it.
> >
> >Also while at Midas, they took the cover off of the brake fluid reservoir
> >and now the brakes seem to squeek a lot.  Since they took it off and put
it
> >back on, should I bleed the brake system?
>
> Nah. Only if you feel a soft pedal or you're going racin'. The squeak is
> something else -- maybe dirt or grease on the pads from Midas handling
them
> with greasy fingers.
>
> Rich/slow old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:45:56 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <erikpetterson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front axel boot is torn, Fixxable???

 Ok one more question:
 Will just replacing the boot fix the problem with the grease lost already?
 The hole is big enough where I could just stick grease in there by hand,
but
 I wouldn't know how much to put on it...  The Midas shop wants to charge
 like $500 to replace it, they said you have to replace that entire side of
 the axel.  Also at the Midas they wrote the width of the rotors on the
 rotors themselves with a permanent marker...this may sound stupid, but will
 that affect the brakes at all, would that cause them to squeek?  They seem
 to squeek when I drive real slow, like through a parking lot, but as soon
as
 I press the brakes they stop squeeking and just work normal.

 (sorry if my questions seem dumb, but this is my first car so......)

 Thanks,
 Erik --- '91 Stealth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #723
***************************************