Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, January 2 2002
Volume 01 : Number
715
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:39:48 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject:
Aftermarket ECU's; was RE: Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second Intake/Fuel
Comuter
I just recently learned about all the aftermarket ECU's and
advanced
piggyback controllers and all the advantages that they offer and I
am
giving it a second thought before I go ahead and start my mods adventure.
I
want to summarize my little research for everyone and ask some questions
in
case someone could help me with the answers. Please add other ECU's if I
missed them. Here is what I have learned so far:
1) There is a bunch
of Australian companies that offer full-blown universal
ECU
replacements:
Haltech
http://www.haltech.com.auMRT Rally
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/link.htmMotec
http://www.motec.com.auAutronic
http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/sm2ecu.htmlThese
ECU's are fully programmable, with opportunities to add additional
inputs
and outputs for nitros, water injection and IC misting, traction
control,
etc. These guys might be good but I have a problem calling
Australia for
tech support and not all of them know how to use email.
2) Then there is
an American-made AEM EMS
http://www.aempower.com/ems.htmThey
offer a universal ECU and also a plug-and-play ECU specifically for
3S.
Priced much lower than their Australian brothers, their ECU's are new
and
unproven. They have a very cool software though, you can download and
try
a demo version. It is mindblowing, but it might be easier to work with
than several separate piggybacks and a datalogger, besides a plug and play
version already comes with a running initial setup. I sent a question about
the AEM EMS to the list but I do not know what happened because for some
unknown reason I was not receiving any Team3S postings for several days. If
my message was posted and someone responded to it, I would appreciate if
you resend your email to me. I still have questions:
- Is their
ECU "learning" for non-WOT operation.
- Do I control boost with the
stock solenoid or their solenoid? Can I
then reduce my boost if it starts to
knock?
- Just curious if I could later buy or make a custom plug and
connect
their plug-and-play 3S ECU to some other engine (I-4 or
V10?)
3) EFI PMS
http://www.efisystems.com/pms.htmAn
advanced piggyback controller that controls injection and ignition
timing. A
MAF kit is required (?). The hardware is verified on DSM cars.
The software
is in development.
- Can it log knock sum?
- Do you have to
buy the "MAF kit"? Is the replacement MAF sensor any
bigger than the stock
sensor? Matt, are you getting a speed-density system
with a MAP sensor or
the "MAF kit"?
Philip
'95 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:40:02
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second Intake/Fuel Comuter
I am sorry, what is "AFM
replacements"?
Philip
At 07:04 PM 01/01/02, Geoff Mohler
wrote:
>I guess I screwed up.
>
>What are people paying for
AFM replacements, not including other
>management
products.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 22:26:11
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second Intake/Fuel Comuter
Air Flow Meter...the
thingie behind the air filter thingit.
On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Philip V.
Glazatov wrote:
> I am sorry, what is "AFM replacements"?
>
> Philip
>
> At 07:04 PM 01/01/02, Geoff Mohler
wrote:
> >I guess I screwed up.
> >
> >What are
people paying for AFM replacements, not including other
> >management
products.
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 01:09:14
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
GT-Pro Split Second Intake/Fuel Comuter
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
'Geoff Mohler' <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Cc:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Tuesday, January 01, 2002 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second
Intake/Fuel Comuter
>> What are people paying for these types
of units?
>
>I'm in for about $1450 for the fully-blown PMS with MAP
sensor and full
>datalogging with Windows InterACQ.
>
>I don't
know exactly what the AEM EMS costs, but it is supposedly
similar
in
>price, but I haven't confirmed that since I'm going to give
the PMS a try
in
>the spring. It worked well in my Eclipse GSX
and I'm familiar with it so
>that's partly why I decided to follow that
route.
>
>I wonder if the AEM EMS is what the GT Pro folks have been
working with
>lately.
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-------------------
No - AEM has had this in the works for a while.
They are going
to run ~ $1400. My motorbuilder was very excited about
it when
he got back from SEMA this year. Says he already has
pre-orders
for 6 of them. It sounds/looks good according to the
company
website but there have been other setups in the past that
were
supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread that didn't
turn out
so well. I've decided I won't be the first in line this
time!
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:49:45
-0500
From: "Berrios, Victor L CIV" <
VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
Happy New Year!
I searched the 3si
archives to get info on data logger or some sort of
electronic mechanism to
monitor knock on my '96 VR-4. Apparently there is
no data logger for
the '96-on cars.
What options we have?
I need something to monitor
knock on my car.
My mods: Blitz DSB-i-D Set at 15.0 PSI, FIPK, Hard IC
lines, No pre-cats,
Custom Hi-flow Exhaust, A/F EGT & Boost
gauges
Any input apprecited.
Victor
'96 Pearl White
VR-4
PR
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:06:56
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Aftermarket ECU's; was RE: Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second Intake /Fuel
Comuter
> 3) EFI PMS
http://www.efisystems.com/pms.htm>
An advanced piggyback controller that controls injection and
> ignition
timing. A MAF kit is required (?). The hardware is
> verified on DSM cars.
MAF kit is not required - and at least the last time I talked to them
they
didn't have a MAF kit available yet. With the InterACQ software
you can
"design" airflow meters so it should be relatively easy to make
most
hotwire-type sensors work if you have sensor specs.
> The
software is in development.
Software is done, as far as I know.
Mine is a prototype, so as more people
buy the 3/S version and EFI Systems
gets feedback maybe there will be newer
versions of software available.
If so, it should be an EPROM swap, same as
on the DSM
version.
> - Can it log knock sum?
No. That
information isn't available outside the factory ECU as far as I
know.
I'm going to be using an MSD Knock Alert to keep an eye (and an ear)
on
knock. Most of the time I won't have a laptop/datalogger in the car
and
detecting knock/detonation is so critical that having an audible alarm
seems
like a better way to go for most driving.
> - Do
you have to buy the "MAF kit"? Is the replacement MAF
> sensor any bigger
than the stock sensor? Matt, are you
> getting a speed-density system with
a MAP sensor or the
> "MAF kit"?
You don't have to buy a MAF
kit. I think I covered that part up above.
If you run the
Standalone mode at higher RPM and WOT then it does switch to
speed-density
mode using the MAP sensor. You need a MAF for non-standalone
(idling,
cruising, etc.). Using the standalone mode you should be able to
run
the motor past the factory revlimiter - which is nice if you have big
turbos
and a built motor. I haven't personally verified that it actually
works
though.
One thing to watch for on those other ECUs that you mentioned
(Haltech,
Motec, Autronic, EMS) is that they don't hook up to knock sensors -
so those
ECUs won't react to knock by retarding timing. MRT Link Plus
does use the
knock sensor, which is a plus.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 07:35:36
-0800
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: [nws3] FW: Club3S & The 3S National Gathering!! (Long,
Enthusiasts Please Read)
Is anyone from up here in the NW going to this
gathering? I looked at a map
and its 36 hours of driving to get there....an
easy four day round trip via
driving......I am considering it and even have
permision from the warden but
36 hrs. one way? Is there anything like this on
the west coast? Is there a
caravan forming? It would seem easier to ship my
car and fly to it like the
Sturgis event with Harley's.
Just a
thought.......
Bobk.
93 R/T w/99 conversion underway
-
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
[mailto:BlackLight@planetice.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:28
PM
To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Nws3;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
[nws3] FW: Club3S & The 3S National Gathering!! (Long,
Enthusiasts Please
Read)
This is from Paul about his company going up. Just forwarding
for him
cause his outgoing email is not working I guess.
Matt
Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem
OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Butkiewicz
[mailto:3S@DiabloEnterprises.com]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 1:49
PM
To: Starnet Mailing List
Subject: Club3S & The 3S National
Gathering!! (Long, Enthusiasts Please
Read)
Hi
everyone, been a while since I've posted, but I wanted to fill
everyone in on
what's been going on with my
business
(DiabloEnterprises.com).
Background info
for the people I don't talk to much and newbies: A
few months ago, I
started putting together a small internet-based 3/S
performance retail
company. Basically, I figured by not having a retail
store and drop shipping
most of my products, I could keep prices down
and offer some great deals to
all of you.
People began emailing me about products for
their other cars and
soon people who don't even know what a 3/S is were
emailing and calling
about products. I then realized the potential this has
and have been
very busy trying to establish accounts and such to make it an
all-out
internet-based import performance company.
I should be all setup in the next few weeks, and wanted to ensure
everyone I
did not forget my roots. I am going to be setting up a
membership
program for 3/S owners. I'm planning discounts, group-buys,
weekly 3S
mailings (gatherings info, new products, car of the week...),
custom 3/S
memorablia only available to members, and maybe even raffles
and an
affiliate-type program.
I've already OK'ed custom 3S
Corbeau Racing seats and am in the
process of speaking with someone who makes
laser cut crystal about some
really nice coffee table conversation
pieces. =)
Please go to
www.DiabloEnterprises.com and click
on the Club 3S
logo. That will bring you to a page with a link to the
membship
application. It's free and the only requirement is you own a
3/S. I
highly recommend you be a 3Si member as well, as this may
qualify you
for better discounts. Eric Lotter puts a lot of his own
time and money
into 3Si and many of you take advantage of the 3Si discounts
from Mitsu
and other dealers witout even being a member. Pay the few
bucks to
become a member, get a cool sticker, and help support all the things
3Si
has done for you.
Also, I'd like to remind everyone
to sign-up for the 3S National
Gathering. There's a link to it on my
webpage and I hope there will be
a huge outcome. I'm not making any
promises, but there may be some of
those custom 3S Corbeau Racing Seats
raffled off...
If someone on the other lists/boards
(Team3S, 3S-Racers, JRC-3Si,
3Si Board, etc..) could forward or post this
email, I'd greatly
appreciate it. I've been having problems with my
outgoing mail server
and can't post to those lists right now. Also,
anyone with a 3S-related
webpage that wants to throw up a link for Club3S,
you're more than
welcome to link right up to the logo on the website.
Email me for code
if you don't know how or don't want to figure it out.
=)
Remember, the club is for us all. The more
members, the more
buying-power we'll have, so get the word out to the lists,
boards,
webpages, and friends!
Have a safe and happy new year!
And remember, no drinking and driving!!
=) Paul Butkiewicz Proud Member of
3Si: #1127 Diablo Enterprises :
Club3S Phone/Fax 781-769-4180 Norwood,
MA 02062-4012
http://www.DiabloCarAudio.com/ http://www.DiabloEnterprises.com/-
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Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:41:40
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: stand alone ECU's etc.........
Permission from the
warden :) that's very funny. Now for
tech
content, my only concern with replacement units like PMS, Haltech,
AEM,
etc.. which of these units learn as you drive and offer true value vs
piggy
back control modules. I mean for about 900 dollars you can
get an SAFC,
550CC's, and a fuel pump these will let you safely support 13G's
safely and
"adequately" support 15G's. Bigger than that things get
interesting (i.e.
expensive) So the question is with a few parameter changes
will going from
450cc's to 550cc's work reasonably well and then will
these systems do the
fine tuning? Any one with experience even if it is from
the non-DSM world
speak up please.
Russ F
CT
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Koch
[SMTP:eK2mfg@foxinternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:36
AM
> To:
nws3@yahoogroups.com;
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
>
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: RE: [nws3] FW: Club3S & The 3S National Gathering!!
>
( Long, Enthusiasts Please Read)
>
> Is anyone from up here in the
NW going to this gathering? I looked at a
> map
> and its 36 hours
of driving to get there....an easy four day round trip
> via
>
driving......I am considering it and even have permision from the warden
>
but
> 36 hrs. one way? Is there anything like this on the west coast? Is
there a
> caravan forming? It would seem easier to ship my car and fly to
it like
> the
> Sturgis event with Harley's.
>
> Just a
thought.......
> Bobk.
> 93 R/T w/99 conversion
underway
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:34:39
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: stand alone ECU's etc.........
> Now for tech
content, my only concern with replacement
> units like PMS, Haltech, AEM,
etc.. which of these
> units learn as you drive and offer true value vs
piggy
> back control modules.
I can't speak for the Haltech or AEM,
but the PMS is a piggyback to the
stock ECU and therefore lets the stock ECU
learn in closed-loop mode (while
idling, cruising, light load) to try to get
a stoichometric (sp?) mixture.
The extra value of the PMS is in the
datalogging support and timing control
and ability to do timing/fuel offsets
when nitrous is engaged, 2-step
revlimiting, higher than stock redline, log
boost level, etc.
> I mean for about 900 dollars you can get an
SAFC,
> 550CC's, and a fuel pump these will let you safely
> support
13G's safely and "adequately" support 15G's.
> Bigger than that things get
interesting (i.e.
> expensive) So the question is with a few parameter
changes
> will going from 450cc's to 550cc's work reasonably well
and
> then will these systems do the fine tuning? Any one with
>
experience even if it is from the non-DSM world
> speak up
please.
At WOT all these systems you mentioned (except the pure
piggybacks like the
Super-AFC) just pull fuel/timing values from a table and
run the car with
those. Some of them (although I'm not sure on Haltech
or AEM) are able to
have O2 sensor voltage targets set for WOT and can tweak
the fuel delivery
to hit that target. I think the PMS can in standalone
mode, but I'm not
sure about that.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:43:16
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: forged rods/stock rods
> Thanks for the response ---- any
other tricks or comments
> about rebuilding the bottom end. I'm buying a
bare block with
> new pistons and rods [ Ross or Vilonia pistons and
Pauter
> rods ]. I'll probably go 50 over on the pistons but I'm not
> sure what to do on the rings --- gapless or regular. Plus I need to
> decide on a compression ratio, I'm thinking of going to a
>
little under 8 to be on the safe side.
Hmmm... I guess I'd only say
to try to be a little on the tight side of the
clearance specs with the
bearings - that'll keep the oil pressure a little
higher in the main
journal. Verify the thrust bearing clearance as well
after you get the
crank/cap in. Make sure your rods/pins/pistons match
designs if
possible (ie: rods are bushed for floating pin, pins are the
right size for
floating, pistons are okay with floating). It'll save
unnecessary
machining work.
> Brian Pauter said pressure feeding the pins is
probably
> overkill for a street car --- any comments to the
contrary.
Yeah, pressure feeding the pins is maybe overkill for a street
car. Most
street cars don't make the kind of power that an even
moderately modified
3/S can though. ;-) I guess that's probably
an area of personal
preference. If the rods aren't bushed for floating
pins and you are
actually going with floaters then there should be some way
for oil to work
its way into the pin joint. I drilled a hole in the top
of the rod and put
a 45 degree chamfer on it to funnel oil into the pin joint
- but my rods
aren't bushed.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:33:28
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
forged rods/stock rods
Matt
Thanks for the response ---- any other
tricks or comments about rebuilding
the bottom end. I'm buying a bare block
with new pistons and rods [ Ross or
Vilonia pistons and Pauter rods ]. I'll
probably go 50 over on the pistons but
I'm not sure what to do on the rings
--- gapless or regular. Plus I need to
decide on a compression ratio, I'm
thinking of going to a little under 8 to
be on the safe side.
Your
comment about replacing the squirters is a good one --- cheap
insurance.
Brian Pauter said pressure feeding the pins is probably
overkill for a street
car --- any comments to the
contrary.
Jim Berry
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>;
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, December 31, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: forged rods/stock
rods
> > I've only seen one set of rods for our cars and it
had
> > what I assume is an oil squirter near the big end of
the
> > rod ---- on the side of the beam pointing up at an
>
> angle towards the piston. Is the object to cool the
> > piston,
oil the pin or cylinder or all three.
>
> Mostly to cool the
piston, from what I've read. The stock pin is an
> interference-fit
design so it doesn't move in the rod so no oil is required
> in that
joint.
>
> > The Pauter replacement piston doesn't
have the same
> > squirter --- they can add a pin oiler which
would help
> > the pin but would perform little cooling.
>
> If you use a floating pin then you should probably have a pin oiler in
the
> rod, depending on the bushing material. If you are looking at
the Pauter
> rods, then you are probably also considering the Ross
pistons... If you go
> with Ross pistons and stock rods you'll need
to machine the stock rods to
> accept floating pins. That's what I
did on my motor.
>
> There are also oil sprayers pressed into the
main oil journal which spray on
> the pistons. The sprayers on the
rods themselves probably aren't as big a
> deal. If you are tearing
down your motor, replace the block's oil sprayers
> as a precaution.
It doesn't take much grit to block those.
>
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_09-05.gif>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:33:42
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: forged rods/stock rods
50 over?
Consider longevity
over displacement on that one..just sounds like a lot.
Even of IEM allows for
60, consider that OEM isnt allowing for gobs of
boost.
On Wed, 2 Jan
2002, Jim Berry wrote:
> Matt
>
> Thanks for the response
---- any other tricks or comments about rebuilding
> the bottom end. I'm
buying a bare block with new pistons and rods [ Ross or
> Vilonia pistons
and Pauter rods ]. I'll probably go 50 over on the pistons but
> I'm not
sure what to do on the rings --- gapless or regular. Plus I need to
>
decide on a compression ratio, I'm thinking of going to a little under 8
to
> be on the safe side.
>
> Your comment about replacing
the squirters is a good one --- cheap insurance.
>
> Brian Pauter
said pressure feeding the pins is probably overkill for a street
> car ---
any comments to the contrary.
>
> Jim Berry
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
>
To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>;
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:34 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: forged
rods/stock rods
>
>
> > > I've only seen one set of
rods for our cars and it had
> > > what I assume is an oil squirter
near the big end of the
> > > rod ---- on the side of the beam
pointing up at an
> > > angle towards the piston. Is the object to
cool the
> > > piston, oil the pin or cylinder or all three.
>
>
> > Mostly to cool the piston, from what I've read. The
stock pin is an
> > interference-fit design so it doesn't move in the
rod so no oil is required
> > in that joint.
> >
> >
> The Pauter replacement piston doesn't have the same
>
> > squirter --- they can add a pin oiler which would help
> >
> the pin but would perform little cooling.
> >
> > If you
use a floating pin then you should probably have a pin oiler in the
> >
rod, depending on the bushing material. If you are looking at the
Pauter
> > rods, then you are probably also considering the Ross
pistons... If you go
> > with Ross pistons and stock rods you'll
need to machine the stock rods to
> > accept floating pins.
That's what I did on my motor.
> >
> > There are also oil
sprayers pressed into the main oil journal which spray on
> > the
pistons. The sprayers on the rods themselves probably aren't as big
a
> > deal. If you are tearing down your motor, replace the
block's oil sprayers
> > as a precaution. It doesn't take much
grit to block those.
> >
> >
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_09-05.gif>
>
> > -Matt
> > '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:05:42
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: forged rods/stock rods
Several of us are running with
0.050" over-sized pistons. This should
result in an average cylinder wall
thickness of 0.235" and a
displacement of 3056 cc. A 0.050" overbore
increases CR to ~8.2:1
(not a big deal) if no changes are made in piston
design. Some folks
have bored 0.075" over, which reduces average wall
thickness to near
0.2" (probably the practical limit), but increases
displacement to
3100 cc. A 0.050" overbore still allows for more boring if
ever
required.
Longevity? Longevity of what? Exactly how does cylinder
wall
deflection affect block components?
Piston upgrade info:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-pistonguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Cc: "Jannusch, Matt"
<
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>;
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: forged rods/stock
rods
50 over?
Consider longevity over displacement on that
one..just sounds like a
lot. Even of IEM allows for 60, consider that OEM
isnt allowing for
gobs of
boost.
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:13:19
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: forged rods/stock rods
A thinner cylinder wall will
suffer from metal fatigue sooner than a
thicker one. They -do- flex to
a measurable degree..even stock. Just one
of those things engineers
live to argue and design for. *heh*
Im not implying that your
mentioned thicknesses are too thin, just that
"how far can I go" as far as
boring a cylinder hasnt been as important to
me as reliability. Im
completing an engine project for endurance
racing..which is why I bring it up
at all.
On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Jeff Lucius wrote:
> Several of
us are running with 0.050" over-sized pistons. This should
> result in an
average cylinder wall thickness of 0.235" and a
> displacement of 3056 cc.
A 0.050" overbore increases CR to ~8.2:1
> (not a big deal) if no changes
are made in piston design. Some folks
> have bored 0.075" over, which
reduces average wall thickness to near
> 0.2" (probably the practical
limit), but increases displacement to
> 3100 cc. A 0.050" overbore still
allows for more boring if ever
> required.
>
> Longevity?
Longevity of what? Exactly how does cylinder wall
> deflection affect
block components?
>
> Piston upgrade info:
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-pistonguide.htm>
> Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
> Cc: "Jannusch,
Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>;
>
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: forged
rods/stock rods
>
> 50 over?
>
> Consider longevity
over displacement on that one..just sounds like a
> lot. Even of IEM
allows for 60, consider that OEM isnt allowing for
> gobs of
boost.
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You
Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
>
http://greetings.yahoo.com>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:19:44
-0600
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Pothole
I called that twice, and both time got a different answer
- first time I was
told that they could do it. Second time I was told that
they would be able
to do it, but since they use heat to straighten it, the
chrome would turn
black.
Any
ideas?
Thanks,
Alex
'95 Vr4 w/ a chrome pain in the *ss
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <
dblai@allstate.com>
To: "'Alex
Pedenko'" <
apedenko@attbi.com>
Cc: "Team3s
(E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, December 31, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Pothole
> Hi Alex,
>
> You may now have some wheel
vibration and possibly a rim leak if it was
bad
> enough. I have
had this happen many times.....living in the Chicago area!
> I have had 2
rim leaks on 2 different wheels. One of which I decided to
> replace
with a restored OEM 18" chromie wheel and the other I had fixed.
I
>
got a restored wheel from a place called TransWheel for about $350.
They
> were also the ones that straightened out my other wheels ($100 per
wheel).
> These were pretty cheap prices considering that the stock 18"
chromies go
> for about $561 from Tallahassee Mitsu. The restored
ones are next to
> impossible to tell from brand new so why pay the extra
money?
>
> The number is 1-800-892-3733. Ask for Tom and tell
him Dave Black from
3Si
> sent you. The website is
http://www.transwheel.com>
>
Dave 95VR4
>
http://www.daveblack.net>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alex Pedenko
[SMTP:apedenko@attbi.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:00
PM
> > To: 'Team3S'
> > Subject: Team3S: Pothole
>
>
> > Okay, I hit a pothole that dented my chrome 18" rims :'(
...
> > The dent is about an inch deep towards the center of the wheel.
Tire
> > pressure seems to be holding okay. Anything I should
check/watch out
for?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
>
> Alex
> >
> > '95 VR4 (with a
limp)
> >
> >
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:22:50
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
Unfortunately, you do not have any
chance in 93+ cars to log the stock knock
sensor without tapping into the
wires directly (like some of the discussed
quasi-standalone computers
do).
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Berrios, Victor L CIV" <
VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
To:
<
TEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: Team3S: Data logger for 96
VR-4
> Happy New Year!
>
> I searched the 3si archives
to get info on data logger or some sort of
> electronic mechanism to
monitor knock on my '96 VR-4. Apparently there is
> no data logger
for the '96-on cars.
>
> What options we have?
> I need
something to monitor knock on my car.
> My mods: Blitz DSB-i-D Set at 15.0
PSI, FIPK, Hard IC lines, No pre-cats,
> Custom Hi-flow Exhaust, A/F EGT
& Boost gauges
>
> Any input apprecited.
>
>
Victor
> '96 Pearl White VR-4
> PR
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:42:01
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Pothole
I had a 1st gen chrome wheel straightened here in
Houston. The chrome did
not turn black. It is indistinguishable
from a brand new one I bought form
Mitsu.
What they (and other places)
might say is that they cannot "repair" the
wheel if it is severely dented,
but they can "remedy" it, which means makes
it better but without
guarantee.
I'll look up the reference - I'm sure you could ship
the wheel to them for
repair.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Alex Pedenko [SMTP:apedenko@attbi.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:20 PM
> To: Black, Dave (ICT)
> Cc:
Team3s (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Pothole
>
> I called
that twice, and both time got a different answer - first time I
>
was
> told that they could do it. Second time I was told that they would
be able
> to do it, but since they use heat to straighten it, the chrome
would turn
> black.
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:11:17
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
Thanks for the sum-up Philip, helps for
future discussions :)
Basically, ALL of these computres are not
STAND-ALONE as the stock ECU is
still neded for this and that. Some will be
plugged in between the stock
harness (Piggy-back systems) others use some
wires of them.
The big difference to fuel computers like an AFC, VPC or
ARC is that they do
have their own fuel and ignition maps. This means that
they directly drive
the ignition hardware as well as the injector driver.
IMHO, the programming
capabilities often require wide band O2 sensors and
some other stuff to
simulate load and different ambient. The later can be
done more or less o na
good dyno but we know that this is expensive and not
always available.
Regarding the MAF, tehy all work with any kind of
signal, pressure or
airflow. YOu just have to configure what kind iti s and
what range and
that's it. They are mostly linear so the conversion is no
problem. The only
thing I do not like is that none of them is looking at the
ambient temp or
barometric pressure like the stock ECU does. But some do look
at the water
temp and therefore "know" how to adjust for cold starts. Even
then the user
(you, know called ECU programmer) can change the behaviour but
of course,
lots of testing is needed. To answer the question, also no MAF can
be used
as they also read MAP if necessary (VPC does this)
Another
thing the newer ECUs can do is to control boost. Please note, for
this
purpose, quick solenoids like the ones from the Blitz DSBC must also be
used.
The stock one is just too slow for a good control in the upper rpm and
power
range. Also for WI you still need a good pump and injection system in
behind
the ECU "only" acts as an activator.
The good thing is, that many systms
provide a plug & play program for you so
the car will start immediatly
and tuning can be done. But be prepared to use
hours and hours and many miles
as well as days of driving around with your
laptop as co-pilot, hours of
analysing and hours of ... reinstalling the
base software to start from
scratch. This is why it takes soooo long for
shops like GT PRO to become
familiar with such systems as well as to learn
what is the best for the cars.
The later is not easily to be answered as
every car is different, mods are
different, some use this some that and
therefore everyone will need lot's of
time until the car runs well. ..... if
I ever will have time again then I'll
be into one of these newer Systems....
but it must read knock, no way around
it :-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: Aftermarket ECU's; was RE:
Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second Intake/Fuel
Comuter
> The software
is in development.
> - Can it log knock
sum?
> - Do you have to buy the "MAF kit"? Is the replacement
MAF sensor any
> bigger than the stock sensor? Matt, are you getting a
speed-density system
> with a MAP sensor or the "MAF
kit"?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:16:13
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
Are you sure that the AEM Plug and
Play is not a direct swap out?
If it's not, then I need to re-read the
web site.
Chuck Willis
(Altsheimers is sad, except I get to make new
friends every day!)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger
Gerl [SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 4:11
PM
> To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
>
> Thanks for the sum-up
Philip, helps for future discussions :)
>
> Basically, ALL of these
computres are not STAND-ALONE as the stock ECU is
> still neded for this
and that. Some will be plugged in between the stock
> harness (Piggy-back
systems) others use some wires of them.
>
>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:19:43
-0500
From: "Alan C. Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> And
how can the Pocketlogger log the knock sensor ?????????
>
I have an
1st gen ODBI car so I can't answer that question.
But, Why would it not
be able to? The TMO Datalogger and the Pocketlogger
for ODBI
can.
Alan
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:19:25
-0500
From: "Alan C. Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>
Unfortunately, you do not have any chance in 93+ cars to log the
stock
knock
> sensor without tapping into the wires
directly
Actually their is an option for the fully OBDII compliant
cars.
http://pocketlogger.com/?page=prod&prod=obd2Works
with any Palm OS 3.0 compatable device.
The pocketlogger has a ODBII
version the 94-95(i think) are stuck in the
limbo between ODBI and
ODBII.
Alan
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:21:28
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
> Are you sure that the AEM Plug
and Play is not a direct swap out?
It is a full swap-out. The
factory ECU is removed when using the AEM (for
better or worse).
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:24:37
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
>> Unfortunately, you do not
have any chance in 93+ cars to
>> log the stock knock sensor without
tapping into the
>> wires directly
> Actually their is an
option for the fully OBDII compliant
> cars.
http://pocketlogger.com/?page=prod&prod=obd2>
Works with any Palm OS 3.0 compatable device.
No, it isn't an
option. It does NOT log the knock sum value from the ECU.
The OBD-I
version does, the OBD-II version does not. It'll work for the
standard
things like O2 sensor values, RPM, fuel trim, airflow rate,
injectors, etc.
but not knock. Any OBD-II logger will work for those values
on '96 and
later ECUs.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:31:47
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
Alain,
The Pocketlogger is a
PALM Adapted TMO Datalogger and any OBDII software
available currently cannot
read the knock sensor. Believe me, it can't !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Alan C. Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
To: <
TEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96
VR-4
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Gerl"
<
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>
> And how can the Pocketlogger log the knock sensor ?????????
>
>
>
> I have an 1st gen ODBI car so I can't answer that
question.
>
> But, Why would it not be able to? The TMO Datalogger
and the Pocketlogger
> for ODBI can.
>
>
Alan
>
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:28:48
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
And what does then control the fuel
relays (as an example) ??? I know that
some stuff must stay there as
well as the stock ECU stays installed ...
for
whatever.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
ww.rtec.ch
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket
ECU's;
> > Are you sure that the AEM Plug and Play is not a
direct swap out?
>
> It is a full swap-out. The factory ECU is
removed when using the AEM (for
> better or worse).
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:32:47
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
This is what the add says, ... and
sorry I don't believe adds much !!!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket
ECU's;
> > Are you sure that the AEM Plug and Play is not a
direct swap out?
>
> It is a full swap-out. The factory ECU is
removed when using the AEM (for
> better or worse).
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:30:52
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
>
> But, Why would it not be
able to? The TMO Datalogger and the Pocketlogger
> for ODBI
can.
>
The provisions for reading knock were left out of the
OBDII specifications.
See this FAQ for more info:
http://www.pocketlogger.com/?page=faq&faq=obd2#anchor3Christopher
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:33:00
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
> And what does then control the
fuel relays (as an example)
> ??? I know that some stuff must stay
there as well as the
> stock ECU stays installed ... for
whatever.
The AEM controls the fuel pump relay (and whatever else is
needed) same as
the stock ECU used to.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:55:14
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
Unfortunately, this is what
Pocketlogger tells us ... but why can my dealer
read the knock sensor on 96
3000GT with their tool ? The Mitsu tool is an
OBDII reader/writer and is able
to change values on the fly. Obvoiusly there
are hidden commands available.
We checked this on a clients car as I wasnt
sure if there is really knock
pickup. We slightly hammered agaisnt the block
at idle and I saw the knock
sum going up on the MUTII display !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
To:
<
TEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96
VR-4
>
> >
> > But, Why would it not be able to?
The TMO Datalogger and the
Pocketlogger
> > for ODBI can.
>
>
>
>
> The provisions for reading knock were left out of
the OBDII
specifications.
> See this FAQ for more info:
>
http://www.pocketlogger.com/?page=faq&faq=obd2#anchor3>
Christopher
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:56:42
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
Have you installed it and on what rpm
range can it be activated ?
Thanks
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:33 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket
ECU's;
> > And what does then control the fuel relays (as an
example)
> > ??? I know that some stuff must stay there as well
as the
> > stock ECU stays installed ... for whatever.
>
>
The AEM controls the fuel pump relay (and whatever else is needed) same
as
> the stock ECU used to.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:58:02
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
Is the stock ECM needed to interface with
or control the other
control units found in our cars?
- - Antilock Braking
System (ABS)
- - Supplemental Restraint System (SRS)
- - Electronic
Control Suspension (ECS)
- - ETACS (includes auto-shutoff components, timers,
intermittent
wipers, security, etc.)
- - Air Conditioning (is heating
integrated with auto a/c?)
- - Auto Cruise Control
- - keyless entry
-
- radio antenna
- - sunroof
How do the aftermarket units that
eliminate the stock ECM interface
with these other CUs? Or don't they need
to? I mean, will ABS or SRS
(for example) continue to work correctly if the
link is broken with
the stock ECM?
Considering that Matt Monnett can
make a '95 TT go 11 s flat in the
quarter mile with the stock ECM (and ARC2)
but lots of other
non-electronic performance mods (cams, turbos, fuel, etc.),
why do we
*need* an aftermarket ECM? (I know some people just like to
play,
experiment, or be different.)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket
ECU's;
> And what does then control the fuel relays (as an example)
> ??? I know that some stuff must stay there as well as the
> stock ECU stays installed ... for whatever.
The AEM controls the
fuel pump relay (and whatever else is needed)
same as the stock ECU used
to.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:10:40
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Data logger for 96 VR-4
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>
Unfortunately, this is what Pocketlogger tells us ... but why can
my
dealer
> read the knock sensor on 96 3000GT with their tool ? The
Mitsu tool is an
> OBDII reader/writer and is able to change values on the
fly. Obvoiusly
there
> are hidden commands available. We checked this
on a clients car as I wasnt
> sure if there is really knock pickup. We
slightly hammered agaisnt the
block
> at idle and I saw the knock sum
going up on the MUTII display !
>
Actually that is what the FAQ
says too :
- ---- BEGIN POCKETLOGGER'S INFO ----------------
: Does
Pocketlogger for OBDII show Knock?
A: Not at this time. The OBDII standard
does not include provisions for
reading knock. There may be a way to extract
this data through the
manufacturer defined sections of the OBDII protocol,
but at this time, we do
not have the information needed to implement
this.
- ---- END POCKETLOGGER'S INFO ----------------
The MUT II is
definetely not a standard OBD II tool. Yes it can do OBD II
but it does
much more, which is why it can read knock and is the only tool
that I know of
that works on '94 and '95 3Ss. OBDII is a standard, but it
doesn't stop
the manufacturer from adding non standard info. The
PocketLogger on the
other hand can only do standard OBDII which is why it
can't read
knock.
Christopher
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:11:07
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
> How do the aftermarket units that
eliminate the stock ECM
> interface with these other CUs? Or don't they
need to? I
> mean, will ABS or SRS (for example) continue to work
> correctly if the link is broken with the stock ECM?
I dunno what
all issues it would have, if any. I just asked some real
basic
questions and got real basic answers. I already had the PMS on
the way, so
I was just curious about the AEM setup. I could've
misunderstood their
answers, or they could've misunderstood my
questions.
> Considering that Matt Monnett can make a '95 TT go 11 s
flat
> in the quarter mile with the stock ECM (and ARC2) but lots of
> other non-electronic performance mods (cams, turbos, fuel,
>
etc.), why do we *need* an aftermarket ECM? (I know some
> people just
like to play, experiment, or be different.)
More power to Matt...
He's obviously smarter about tuning than I because I
tried the same things
(stock ECU, ARC-2, etc.) and blew my pistons to
pieces. I need a better
picture of what's going on than what I had before
and part of getting that
picture is some form of datalogger. I can't get it
through conventional
means, so I need to resort to an aftermarket
fuel/ignition controller to get
that kind of data.
Who else is going as quick as Matt? Okay, it has
been done - there is more
than one 3/S in the 10's now. How do we make
that repeatable for the "rest
of us" without blowing up our cars?
The
ARC-2 always felt like it was fighting against me. Too rich at
idle,
too lean on top, then too lean at idle and too rich on top... I
dunno...
Without more data or more accurate tuning I wasn't making progress
with it.
It varied too much from day to day.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:31:42
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Aftermarket ECU's;
>>>> And what does then
control the fuel relays (as an
>>>> example) ???
> Have
you installed it and on what rpm range can it be activated ?
I haven't
installed it (as I said, I'm using the EFI Systems PMS), but I got
some
information from AEM a little while back. Its got
some
user-programmable outputs for things like fuel pump relays, EGR
triggers,
etc. that you can do whatever you want with and use various data
points for
when to turn them on/off.
Ie: When the motor is
supposed to be running (or RPM > 1) then turn on the
fuel pump relay
trigger.
It probably isn't that important to have the low/high portion
configured for
the fuel pump relay, just use the full-power side on all the
time. I'll be
rewiring my fuel pump to work this way very
soon.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:43:07
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>
> Considering that Matt Monnett can make a '95 TT go 11 s
flat in the
> quarter mile with the stock ECM (and ARC2) but lots of
other
> non-electronic performance mods (cams, turbos, fuel, etc.), why do
we
> *need* an aftermarket ECM? (I know some people just like to
play,
> experiment, or be different.)
>
> Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
Of all
people I thought you (Jeff) wouldn't be asking that question. ;)
I
think it's obvious there is a lot of untapped potential in these cars
and
the "best" setup has NOT been found. The fact that there are Neons,
Hondas,
and Foci (plural for Ford Focus) running single digits makes me
believe a
better setup has to exist for our cars. Buying lots of
components whose
only goal is to fake out the car's computer is stupid
compared to having a
device that processes all the information and makes
decisions based on this
(which is what the ECU/ECM was invented to
do).
But you do bring up a good point. You may loose those other
features you
listed is you replace the stock ECM all together. Mikael
Kenson has been
running the Autronic SM2 for some time. This is a piggy
back unit and seems
to work well. He said he choose the Autronic so "AC
and ABS etc works
without any problems" which would imply that your concern
is a valid one
with the complete replacement units.
See this thread on
3Si for a nice "interview" with Mikael:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=2f96c30ca3a9a845913af5dbc3f4368f&threadid=43447&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
Christopher
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:03:09
-0800
From: "John Paul Dauber" <
jpdauber@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
I think that a lot of you guys are
overlooking the fact that nobody has
built a serious drag car. The
fastest 3S right now is a full on street
car...it still has A/C and all of
the other options. Most of us are looking
for a system that allows us to make
at most 500hp without having any
drivability problems. I think that the ARC2
gives me that ability. My car
always runs great, never stalls, never has had
a problem idling, and has
never had a problem embarrassing a C5. If you want
a chance to run in single
digit territory you need to figure out a way to get
some weight out of the
car and make the drivetrain last...the technology for
the power is already
here.
John Paul Dauber
91 3000GT
VR-4
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Deutsch"
<
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff
Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
> To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's
> >
> > Considering that Matt Monnett can
make a '95 TT go 11 s flat in the
> > quarter mile with the stock ECM
(and ARC2) but lots of other
> > non-electronic performance mods (cams,
turbos, fuel, etc.), why do we
> > *need* an aftermarket ECM? (I know
some people just like to play,
> > experiment, or be
different.)
> >
> > Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
>
>
> Of all people I thought you (Jeff) wouldn't be asking that
question. ;) I
> think it's obvious there is a lot of untapped
potential in these cars and
> the "best" setup has NOT been found.
The fact that there are Neons,
Hondas,
> and Foci (plural for Ford
Focus) running single digits makes me believe a
> better setup has to
exist for our cars. Buying lots of components whose
> only goal is
to fake out the car's computer is stupid compared to having a
> device
that processes all the information and makes decisions based on
this
>
(which is what the ECU/ECM was invented to do).
>
> But you do bring
up a good point. You may loose those other features you
> listed is
you replace the stock ECM all together. Mikael Kenson has been
>
running the Autronic SM2 for some time. This is a piggy back unit
and
seems
> to work well. He said he choose the Autronic so "AC
and ABS etc works
> without any problems" which would imply that your
concern is a valid one
> with the complete replacement
units.
>
> See this thread on 3Si for a nice "interview" with
Mikael:
>
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=2f96c30ca3a9a845913af5dbc3f4368f&thr>
eadid=43447&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
>
>
Christopher
>
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:24:40
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"John Paul Dauber" <
jpdauber@worldnet.att.net>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
> I think that a lot of you guys are overlooking the
fact that nobody has
> built a serious drag car. The fastest 3S
right now is a full on street
> car...it still has A/C and all of the
other options. Most of us are
looking
> for a system that allows us to
make at most 500hp without having any
> drivability problems. I think that
the ARC2 gives me that ability. My car
> always runs great, never stalls,
never has had a problem idling, and has
> never had a problem embarrassing
a C5. If you want a chance to run in
single
> digit territory you need
to figure out a way to get some weight out of the
> car and make the
drivetrain last...the technology for the power is already
>
here.
>
> John Paul Dauber
> 91 3000GT VR-4
Oops!
Sorry about that. I didn't want to start the debate about why
there
aren't 9 second 3Ss. I just wanted to point out that only one
person (that
I know of currently) is using an aftermarket ECU as compared to
many ARC2
and VPC cars. Combined with the fact that only one is even in
the 10's and
there are many other models of cars running MUCH faster leads me
to beleive
that there is a better setup out there and "maybe" Matt could have
run low
10's or even 9's if he had an aftermarket ECU.
Also, too many
people have blown up their engines with the ARC2 and VPC.
The datalogging an
aftermarket ECU provides is invaluable for someone like
me who owns a '94 so
there's really no comparison between the ARC2 or VPC
against an ECU in my
case.
Otherwise, I agree with all you statements above (except I don't
believe the
ARC2 or VPC is the "technology" we should be using). I'm
not planning on
stripping down my car either, but I think 10's with a full
interior
shouldn't be as hard as they are proving to be.
Also, Mikael
is running 960 injectors and claims no problem with
idle
either.
Later,
Christopher
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:54:00
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's
- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher
Deutsch <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>Of all people I thought you (Jeff) wouldn't be asking that
question. ;) I
>think it's obvious there is a lot of untapped
potential in these cars and
>the "best" setup has NOT been found.
The fact that there are Neons,
Hondas,
>and Foci (plural for Ford
Focus) running single digits makes me believe a
>better setup has to exist
for our cars. Buying lots of components whose
>only goal is to fake
out the car's computer is stupid compared to having a
>device that
processes all the information and makes decisions based on this
>(which is
what the ECU/ECM was invented to do).
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-------
That's a fairly bizarre comparison considering the fact that the
cars
you mention above are not even street legal, totally stripped
and
most do not even run a motor that even mildly resemble the type
that
comes in the car from the factory. For example - the top
single
digit Focus runs a 6 cylinder built to top pro specs and
turbocharged
with air/water intercooler to go with it's full tube frame and
full
fiberglass body that happens to look like a "Focus".
A stock
focus comes with a NA 4 cylinder and is legal
to drive on the
street.
Gee - John Force runs 5 seconds or less in his "Mustang"
this
year - why can't we do that?!
- - tds
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:09:24
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Paul Dauber
<
jpdauber@worldnet.att.net>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>I think that a lot of you guys are overlooking the
fact that nobody has
>built a serious drag car. The fastest 3S right
now is a full on street
>car...it still has A/C and all of the other
options. Most of us are looking
>for a system that allows us to make at
most 500hp without having any
>drivability problems. I think that the ARC2
gives me that ability. My car
>always runs great, never stalls, never has
had a problem idling, and has
>never had a problem embarrassing a C5. If
you want a chance to run in
single
>digit territory you need to figure
out a way to get some weight out of the
>car and make the drivetrain
last...the technology for the power is already
>here.
>
>John
Paul Dauber
>91 3000GT VR-4
>
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good
to see some sense of reason!
I've had the same results with a VPC/GCC
setup even with larger
than 550 injectors. My biggest obstacle has
nothing to do with the
ECU or fuel controller. It concerns being able
to run higher boost
without damaging knock/detonation without destroying
the
pistons/motor. If the stock ECU wasn't taking the steps
it does
when knock occurs, the results could be even worse.
Weight and drivetrain
are just the nature of this beast unless you
want to build a strip-only
trailer car in which case you would be
better off going a different route
anyway ...
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:11:14
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's again
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch,
Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
'Jeff Lucius' <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>
>More power to Matt... He's obviously
smarter about tuning than I because I
>tried the same things (stock ECU,
ARC-2, etc.) and blew my pistons to
>pieces. I need a better picture
of what's going on than what I had before
>and part of getting that
picture is some form of datalogger. I can't get
it
>through
conventional means, so I need to resort to an aftermarket
>fuel/ignition
controller to get that kind of data.
>
>Who else is going as quick
as Matt? Okay, it has been done - there is more
>than one 3/S in the
10's now. How do we make that repeatable for the "rest
>of us"
without blowing up our cars?
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-------------
Don't underestimate yourself - Matt did blow up his
pistons!
They were stock pistons .... during the low 11 sec runs a while
back.
The most recent 10 sec runs were using a different built motor
with
forged pistons. Knock sums were *unknown* and the tranny
was
shot before the end of the day - still another ride home
on a trailer.
Videos were provided ...
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:56:35
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
At 04:58 PM 01/02/02, Jeff Lucius
wrote:
>Is the stock ECM needed to interface with or control the
other
>control units found in our cars?
>- Antilock Braking System
(ABS)
>- Supplemental Restraint System (SRS)
>- Electronic Control
Suspension (ECS)
>- ETACS (includes auto-shutoff components, timers,
intermittent
>wipers, security, etc.)
>- Air Conditioning (is
heating integrated with auto a/c?)
>- Auto Cruise Control
>- keyless
entry
>- radio antenna
>- sunroof
Some cars have vehicle
computers, but ours have tiny black boxes all over
our cars that control
these auxiliary systems. All the ECU does is makes
sure that the engine
runs. It looks at the AC too but I think it is only to
increase the idle
speed in order to keep the engine from stalling, although
I might be wrong
here.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:14:41
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
At 06:24 PM 01/02/02, Christopher Deutsch
wrote:
>Also, too many people have blown up their engines with the ARC2
and VPC.
>The datalogging an aftermarket ECU provides is invaluable for
someone like
>me who owns a '94 so there's really no comparison between
the ARC2 or VPC
>against an ECU in my case.
I cannot agree more. I
am one of those who wants to be different and not
blow the engine while
trying to go fast. Even the EFI PMS is not an option
for me because without
knowing knock knowing everything else is almost
useless. Even ignition
retard is not as dependent on knock at high loads.
So I can have a good
knock and have no idea about it.
I bought a full set of Apexi
controllers: AVCR, AFC, ITC, and now I can
control anything I want. I could
also buy this little $100 logger
http://www.onsetcomp.com/Products/Product_Pages/HOBO_H08/3075_4Channel_External.html
and log anything I want but knock. I bought an MSD Knock Alert too but I
talked to Trevor James, who already has it, and he said that it is
"worthless", although I think it needed to be installed in a different
spot, next to the stock knock sensor. So if I install this ugly system, I
would have hundred wires going from my engine compartment into my cockpit.
It I had 1st gen then I would have bought a TMO logger and would have lived
happily thereafter.
Instead now I could buy a AEM EMS. It is a true
standalone ECU. You throw
away the stock ECU and plug in AEM EMS directly
where the stock ECU used to
be. It controls everything that the stock ECU
used to control. Additional
inputs and outputs could be programmed. All
fuel, injection, waste gate
maps are already programmed in there and could
be changes with a click of a
mouse. It does use stock knock sensor to retard
ignition if necessary and
ad I found out today it could be programmed to
reduce boost if there is
knock. Boost could be programmed to be gear-based
and RPM-based. Everything
is perfectly set up but not verified in practice.
The stock boost solenoid
will probably have to be replaced. This is where
all the problems start.
They will probably be offering a replacement boost
solenoid with all known
parameters but I have no idea when they will get to
that. Until then.
anyone could have a very flexible system that is
guaranteed to keep the car
running. Modifications and setups are limited
only by imagination and
technical knowledge. It is possible to keep my Apexi
AVCR to control boost,
but then the system will not be as flexible and
programmable.
One more warning sign about the unproven AEM EMS: I was
told that '95 and
'96 have different plugs on the side that connects to the
car. AEM states
that their unit will work with ALL 3S models. Someone has
incorrect
information here. The unproven thing is a big concern. The system
even has
a launch control pick but I bet if you try to use it something will
need to
be changed and it better not be hard coded. Little things like could
turn a
great software into a substandard one if someone tries to use it to
its
full potential. I will try to research everything before I make up my
mind.
Autronic SM2 is a standalone ECU as well. It is proven to work on
many
cars. It definitely measures ambient pressure and coolant temperature.
The
knock sensor could be used too, but it looks like it does not come
standard. Additional inputs and outputs could also be
defined.
Philip
'95 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:15:55
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
I disagree. And I've
CC'd the list for some more opinions.
This is my theory. I think
this logic of running our cars rich to suppress
premature detanation is not
wise. You're solving a big problem (detonation)
but creating a smaller
one (knock). By running rich, the extra fuel that
didn't get burned
might ignite. While the explosion from knock isn't as
damaging as the
explosion from detanation it is still damaging.
You need something that
will always keep your A/F stoichimetric. I don't
think the VPC or ARCII
do a good enough job at this.
If you want to cool the A/F mixture so you
can run more boost you should be
using a better intercooler, water injection,
ram air, possibly an
aftermarket hood with a cowl, etc. Running rich
isn't the solution.
Also, don't forget an aftermarket ECU can control
boost, WI/AI, nitrous, and
most importantly has datalogging. The ARCII
and VPC are a hack; whereas an
aftermarket ECU is a solution.
How does
everyone else feel about running rich to suppress
detonation?
Christopher
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
To: "Christopher
Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
> The owners that I know of that have blown their
>
motors (myself included) did so due to running
> too much boost and
detonation/knock destroyed
> pistons, rods, bearings etc.
>
>
The only way an air/fuel controller or ECU would
> blow a motor would be
during a lean condition.
> That is never a problem with a VPC as long
as
> the injectors are not undersized. The VPC tends
> to run
on the rich side if anything. The stock ECU
> does an excellent job
retarding timing when
> knock is detected and keeps it as high as
>
possible when conditions permit. That doesn't
> blow up motors -
that helps *prevents* the destruction
> of motors. But when boost
levels as higher
> as 2+ times stock levels are used even the
>
least timing avialable won't completely
> eliminate dangerously high knock
level.
> Neither do the most rich fuel settings.
>
> If people
aren't able to tune a VPC or other
> piggyback controller to avoid a lean
condition
> then they will probably have an even more
> difficult
time with a full ECU replacement which
> is much more comprehensive and
complicated.
>
> - Todd
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Deutsch <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
>
To: Todd D.Shelton <
tds@brightok.net>
> Date: Wednesday,
January 02, 2002 8:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>
>
> >I'm fully aware. That's not my
point. I only brought that up to give
> >people something to
shoot for. All the cars I listed can not (or should
> I'd
>
>say should not) compare to our cars, yet there are some amazing
things
that
> >have been done with the powerplants in those
economical, commuter cars.
> The
> >3S is a real sports car, and
lets face it, it hasn't done jack shit. You
> >can blame it on
weight or the transmission, but right now I think the
> >biggest
problem is the stock ECU. People keep blowing up their
engines
and
> >a lot of them aren't even doing anything spectacular
when they do. Most
of
> >these could have been prevented with
better tunning. A replacement or
> piggy
> >back ECU is
what will give you this.
> >
> >Christopher
>
>
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From:
"Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
> >To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:54 PM
> >Subject: Re: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's
> >
> >
>
>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
-
> >--
> >> -------
> >>
> >>
That's a fairly bizarre comparison considering the fact that the cars
>
>> you mention above are not even street legal, totally stripped
and
> >> most do not even run a motor that even mildly resemble the
type that
> >> comes in the car from the factory. For example
- the top single
> >> digit Focus runs a 6 cylinder built to top pro
specs and turbocharged
> >> with air/water intercooler to go with
it's full tube frame and full
> >> fiberglass body that happens to
look like a "Focus".
> >>
> >> A stock focus comes with
a NA 4 cylinder and is legal
> >> to drive on the
street.
> >>
> >> Gee - John Force runs 5 seconds or
less in his "Mustang"
> >> this year - why can't we do
that?!
> >>
> >>
> >> - tds
>
>>
> >>
> >> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
> >
> >
>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:27:59
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
Running rich is not the
answer. Read Roger's technical note for more
insite:
http://www.team3s.com/FAQknock.htmKnock
and detonation are the same thing.
Philip
At 09:15 PM 01/02/02,
Christopher Deutsch wrote:
>This is my theory. I think this logic of
running our cars rich to suppress
>premature detanation is not wise.
You're solving a big problem (detonation)
>but creating a smaller one
(knock). By running rich, the extra fuel that
>didn't get burned
might ignite. While the explosion from knock isn't as
>damaging as
the explosion from detanation it is still damaging.
>
>You need
something that will always keep your A/F stoichimetric. I
don't
>think the VPC or ARCII do a good enough job at
this.
>
>If you want to cool the A/F mixture so you can run more
boost you should be
>using a better intercooler, water injection, ram air,
possibly an
>aftermarket hood with a cowl, etc. Running rich isn't
the solution.
>
>Also, don't forget an aftermarket ECU can control
boost, WI/AI, nitrous, and
>most importantly has datalogging. The
ARCII and VPC are a hack; whereas an
>aftermarket ECU is a
solution.
>
>How does everyone else feel about running rich to
suppress detonation?
>
>Christopher
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:57:45
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Running Rich (WAS: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's)
>
> Knock and detonation are the same
thing.
>
> Philip
>
Yeah, after I sent that I realised
I screwed up using the terminology. But
there is a difference between
the A/F igniting before the spark and excess
igniting after the spark,
right?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:14:21
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
I forgot how the first one
is called but it has to do with overheated parts
inside the cylinder, like
the spark plug and soot particles that cause
pre-ignition. The second is
knock or detonation, which is flame propagation
at above normal
speeds.
Philip
At 09:57 PM 01/02/02, Christopher Deutsch
wrote:
>Yeah, after I sent that I realised I screwed up using the
terminology. But
>there is a difference between the A/F igniting
before the spark and excess
>igniting after the spark,
right?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:28:42
-0600
From: Aamer <
aamer.mail@verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
Correct me if I'm wrong
here, but I'm pretty sure when carbon or other particles ignite fuel before the
spark plug does, it is called precisely that -- "pre-ignition."
Aamer
Abbas
'94 3000GT (DOHC - Naturally Aspirated)
email:
aamer@thepentagon.comfax: (919)
806-5321
> From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
> Date:
2002/01/02 Wed PM 11:14:21 CST
> To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Subject: Re: Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
>
> I
forgot how the first one is called but it has to do with overheated parts
> inside the cylinder, like the spark plug and soot particles that cause
> pre-ignition. The second is knock or detonation, which is flame
propagation
> at above normal speeds.
>
> Philip
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:33:20
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re:
Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
I realized this only after
I typed it and hit the send button. ;-)
Philip
At 10:28 PM
01/02/02, you wrote:
>Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure
when carbon or other
>particles ignite fuel before the spark plug does,
it is called precisely
>that -- "pre-ignition."
>
>Aamer
Abbas
>'94 3000GT (DOHC - Naturally Aspirated)
>email:
aamer@thepentagon.com>fax: (919)
806-5321
>
> > From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
> > Date:
2002/01/02 Wed PM 11:14:21 CST
> > To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> Subject: Re: Running Rich (WAS: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's)
>
>
> > I forgot how the first one is called but it has to do with
overheated
> parts
> > inside the cylinder, like the spark plug
and soot particles that cause
> > pre-ignition. The second is knock or
detonation, which is flame
> propagation
> > at above normal
speeds.
> >
> > Philip
>
>
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:05:24
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re:
Aftermarket ECU's; was RE: Team3S: GT-Pro Split Second Intake/Fuel
Comuter
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Cc:
'Philip V. Glazatov' <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Date: Wednesday,
January 02, 2002 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: Aftermarket ECU's; was RE: Team3S:
GT-Pro Split Second
Intake/Fuel Comuter
>
>One thing
to watch for on those other ECUs that you mentioned (Haltech,
>Motec,
Autronic, EMS) is that they don't hook up to knock sensors -
so
those
>ECUs won't react to knock by retarding timing. MRT Link
Plus does use the
>knock sensor, which is a plus.
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
There
is supposed to be knock sensor function with the AEM setup.
According to my
motorbuilder there is also a function that "adjusts"
the reading to allow for
forged pistons. He says forged pistons
produce a false knock at lower
PSI than actual knock really
occurs. I've heard this about forged
pistons from a few
other sources before but I'm still not sure
myself.
Who wants to be the first to use a setting like this and
see
if it's really true?!
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:16:32
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Aftermarket ECU's
> One more warning sign about the
unproven AEM EMS: I was
> told that '95 and '96 have different plugs on
the side
> that connects to the car. AEM states that their unit
>
will work with ALL 3S models. Someone has incorrect
> information
here.
The PMS says it works on all years also - and it does! You
just tell them
what year car you have and they send the right cables
along. Probably
something similar with the AEM. At least you'd
hope so.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:42:30
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Aftermarket ECU's
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
<
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Aftermarket
ECU's
>
>The PMS says it works on all years also - and it
does! You just tell them
>what year car you have and they send the
right cables along. Probably
>something similar with the AEM.
At least you'd hope so.
>
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--
I hope so too since they (AEM) lists the part # as :
3000GT
VR4 1992-00 30-1311
They also say:
This
user-programmable system plugs directly into a vehicle's factory
ECU
harness and requires no additional wiring.
Something doesn't add
up. Not only are the plugs different
but the wires/numbering don't
match up exactly from 1st to
2nd generation. Even when connecting
something as "simple"
as an ITC - you have to access a different wiring
diagram depending
on year and whether it is a US model or not.
More
for those that are interested:
The AEM EMS's infinitely-adjustable
software allows tuners to program
virtually any combination of engine
control, power adders and auxiliary
devices, and accurately deliver proper
amounts of fuel and correct
ignition timing for ANY boost level or
operating condition.
Plug & Play Programmable Engine Management
System
Plug & Play Technology - No additional wiring
necessary
Installs in minutes!
Runs on Windows™ Based
Software
16/32 Hybrid High-Speed Processor
Base Maps
included
Onboard datalogging
Sequential Fuel
Injection
Interactive, User-friendly Manual
Nitrous, Boost and
Knock control
Forced induction compatible
They also sell a 2nd
version called:
The AEM Race Programmable Engine Management
System
And it lists:
User configurable Windows™ software (requires
a minimum Pentium 100 PC
Onboard Datalogging
Comes with complete library
of tuning tips and system design
User programmable inputs and outputs*
Up
to 10 cylinder sequential fuel injection with individual cylinder trim
Up to
10 cylinder wasted spark distributor less ignition with individual
cylinder
trim
Boost Control
Comprehensive Nitrous Control
Twin O2 sensor closed
loop control (Wide range, and UEGO)
Comprehensive easy to follow
wiring
instructions
Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) feedback
Idle motor
control
Extensive Electronic Automatic
transmission control
16/32 bit
High Speed Processor
Interactive User Friendly manual
Twin Knock sensing
control
Requires Wiring of
Vehicle
__________________________________
I can't hardly keep
track of everything I'm monitoring/setting up now!
Imagine all that
.....
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#715
***************************************
