Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, December 28
2001 Volume 01 : Number
710
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:00:43 -0500
From: "Donnelly, Michael" <
DonnellM@ctc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
question for SCCA memebers
I have some questions for the 3si club members
that frequent the SCCA. I'm
thinking about going to some events but I'd
like to know what I getting
myself into.
First some background,
I grew up in a muscle car fanatic family so I spent
many a Sunday at a NHRA
sanctioned track but right now I actually want to
use that round ring thing
that protrudes out of the dash. Anyway, here is
my situation. I
have a 94' R/T TT with the following mods.
NO EGR valve
Custom exhaust
- no cats, an upgraded Y down pipe and mufflers with what can
be best
described as 3" sewer pipes sticking out the rear end.
HKS boost
controller - set to 1 bar
FKN air filter.
ENKEI RP01 wheels. ~10
lbs./wheel less than stock chrome ones :) :) :)
I think that puts
me just over the 400 hp mark and I'm guessing it would run
low 13's in the
¼.
My questions are what class would I be in? Who would I be
running with
(read other vehicle makes). How competitive could I be,
IOW how do our
vehicles stack up? And the general question about the
safety equipment I
need, cost and basically anything else that would be good
to know?
Michael Donnelly
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:06:34
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Racing seats + stock seatbelt?
You can get adaptors to use
the OEM belt anchors in the front and
back..which isnt too bad, it works
without a cage, but a cage is
preferableb.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Jeff
VanOrsdal wrote:
> I'm considering getting a pair of Corbeau Carrera
seats for my car, but I'm
> left wondering if I'm required to get a race
harness at the same time. I
> can't see any way to retain the stock
seatbelt system. I've got no problems
> buying a race belt system,
but I wanted to possibly get a roll bar first.
>
> Speaking of race
harnesses, how does one mount the belts without a rollbar?
> Does it just
get bolted to some point on the chassis? I'm not familiar
> enough
with belt lengths and mounting requirements to picture this in my
>
head. If anyone has any information, or better yet, pictures of an
install,
> I'd love to see it. Thanks.
>
> Happy
Holidays
>
> Jeff V.
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:11:15
-0500
From: "Wayne Bonnett" <
wayne@wbwebsol.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
Michael,
I'm not sure about the
class you would be in, I'm thinking it would be BSP
(street prepared class
B), but with the boost controller, that might put you
in another class, I
don't know which one. I would contact the SCCA to be
sure.
Some
of the cars in BSP include Toyota Supra turbo(93+), Nissan 300ZX,
Corvette
(including the ZR1), Ferrari 365 & 330 & 308 & 275 & 250,
Shelby
Cobra 289, Sunbeam Tiger 260 & 289, Jaguar E-Type, and of course
3000GT
Turbo.
I have a non turbo 3000gt, and just having the K&N
FIPK put me in ASP. I
didn't want to put my stock intake back on, so I
remained in A street
prepared. Talk about competition! Other cars
in ASP include the Viper,
Porsche 911 turbo, Mazda RX7 turbo. These
cars are much faster than mine,
but it's all about the driver.......
right? :) If I would have remained
100% stock, I would have
been up against the likes of Lexus 400 & SC300 &
GS400, Lincoln Mark
VIII, Mercedes CLK & C36 & V8 & V12, 300ZX non turbo,
Supra non
turbo, BMW 540i & 6 series & 8 series & M5, Buick Grand
National.
Quite a different ball game in cars. But once again, it all
about the
driver......... right? :)
I would check with the
SCCA or your local region, they would know for sure
what class you would be
in.
As for safety equipment, all you really need to do is bring yourself,
and
possibly invest in a high quality helmet (there should be loaner
helmets
available at the events). As for how our vehicles stack up, I'm
not real
sure about that. I just joined the SCCA late in the year, and
have only ran
in 3 events, of course as a novice in the novice class.
That's a whole new
story in itself, and I won't get into that here.
Go
to your local book store and look for the book "Secrets of SOLO
racing,
expert techniques for autocross & time trials" by Henry A.
Watts. It's
pretty informative.
Hope that
helps,
Wayne
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Donnelly, Michael
Sent:
Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:01
To:
'team3s-digest@speedracer.speedtoys.com'Subject:
Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
I have some questions for the 3si
club members that frequent the SCCA. I'm
thinking about going to some
events but I'd like to know what I getting
myself into.
My questions
are what class would I be in? Who would I be running with
(read other
vehicle makes). How competitive could I be, IOW how do our
vehicles
stack up? And the general question about the safety equipment I
need,
cost and basically anything else that would be good to know?
Michael
Donnelly
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:19:15
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
Boost controller is instant
Modified class. EM for the VR4.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Wayne Bonnett
wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I'm not sure about the class you
would be in, I'm thinking it would be BSP
> (street prepared class B), but
with the boost controller, that might put you
> in another class, I don't
know which one. I would contact the SCCA to be
> sure.
>
> Some of the cars in BSP include Toyota Supra turbo(93+), Nissan
300ZX,
> Corvette (including the ZR1), Ferrari 365 & 330 & 308
& 275 & 250, Shelby
> Cobra 289, Sunbeam Tiger 260 & 289,
Jaguar E-Type, and of course 3000GT
> Turbo.
>
> I have a non
turbo 3000gt, and just having the K&N FIPK put me in ASP. I
>
didn't want to put my stock intake back on, so I remained in A street
>
prepared. Talk about competition! Other cars in ASP include the
Viper,
> Porsche 911 turbo, Mazda RX7 turbo. These cars are much
faster than mine,
> but it's all about the driver.......
right? :) If I would have remained
> 100% stock, I would
have been up against the likes of Lexus 400 & SC300 &
> GS400,
Lincoln Mark VIII, Mercedes CLK & C36 & V8 & V12, 300ZX non
turbo,
> Supra non turbo, BMW 540i & 6 series & 8 series & M5,
Buick Grand National.
> Quite a different ball game in cars. But
once again, it all about the
> driver......... right?
:)
>
> I would check with the SCCA or your local region, they would
know for sure
> what class you would be in.
>
> As for safety
equipment, all you really need to do is bring yourself, and
> possibly
invest in a high quality helmet (there should be loaner helmets
>
available at the events). As for how our vehicles stack up, I'm not
real
> sure about that. I just joined the SCCA late in the year, and
have only ran
> in 3 events, of course as a novice in the novice
class. That's a whole new
> story in itself, and I won't get into
that here.
>
> Go to your local book store and look for the book
"Secrets of SOLO racing,
> expert techniques for autocross & time
trials" by Henry A. Watts. It's
> pretty informative.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Wayne
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Donnelly, Michael
>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:01
> To:
'team3s-digest@speedracer.speedtoys.com'>
Subject: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
>
>
> I have
some questions for the 3si club members that frequent the SCCA.
I'm
> thinking about going to some events but I'd like to know what I
getting
> myself into.
>
> My questions are what class would
I be in? Who would I be running with
> (read other vehicle
makes). How competitive could I be, IOW how do our
> vehicles stack
up? And the general question about the safety equipment I
> need,
cost and basically anything else that would be good to know?
>
>
Michael Donnelly
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 19:27:28
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Retraction: Crank Pulley rotating? Belt slipping !
The crank
pulley has not much to do with with the timing belt so your topic
is kinda
irritating.
What you are describing sound like the timing belt slipped.
Now it is not
important where it slipped as the fact that it did is already
the worst
scenario. And here it's possible that nothing got any damage up to
all
valves including the cams have been bent or scratched.
Opening the
front valve cover and inspecing the cams for any sign of wear
would be the
first I'd do. Then changing the belt including tensioner should
be done.
Finally, check the compression on all cylinders. If all values are
in their
range you are fine and no damage has been occured.
Good
luck
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- -----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----
Von: "Michael Pliska" <
mjpliska@prodigy.net>
An: "3000GT
Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Gesendet:
Mittwoch, 26. Dezember 2001 22:37
Betreff: Team3S: Retraction: Crank Pulley
rotating?
> Now that I have the timing cover off, I see that it
was the crank timing
> gear that was 3 teeth advanced (crank pulley
appears okay). Has anyone
> heard of this happening? I would
have expected the crank to have
> slipped relative to the belt, and been
after TDC when the remaining
> parts of the valvetrain were at their "TDC"
positions. Both rear cams
> and the front intake cam are all at
their timing marks, the front
> exhaust cam is 1 tooth back (before TDC),
and the crank is 3 teeth BTDC.
>
> Now it's back to a modified form
of my other e-mail question: Should I
> expect valve/piston damage from
this condition?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 19:32:01
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Altered Atmosphere
Do you have any chance to scan the dyno
sheet ? I wonder how the peak looks
like at the top hp (timing
retard)
Question : What fuel pump are you running ? And what kind of fuel
do you use
?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- -----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----
Von: "Payne, Scott" <
SPayne@hunton.com>
An: "Team3S
(E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Gesendet:
Montag, 24. Dezember 2001 16:31
Betreff: Team3S: Altered
Atmosphere
> WOW, I didnt mean to stir up so much stuff!!
>
Anyway, being a novice, I found their shop and staff to be outstanding.
I
> got excatly what I paid for.
> I got the following -
> HKS
DLI Ignition amp
> Y-Pipe
> Down Pipe
> High Flow Cat
>
2 Gutted Pre-Cats
> 6 NGK Plugs
> Blitz SBC I-D Boost
Controller
> 2 Dyno Runs
>
> Results -
> 316 HP at the
wheels at 15.9 boost
> 345 Lbs Torque
>
> I'm Happy and will
use them again without hesitation.
>
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:33:17
-0600
From: "McFarland, Jason M." <
McFarlandJ@health.missouri.edu>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
Boost Controller is also allowed
in Street Modified.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
[mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 12:19
PM
To: Wayne Bonnett
Cc: Donnelly, Michael;
team3s-digest@speedracer.speedtoys.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
Boost controller is instant
Modified class. EM for the VR4.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:00:10
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
question for SCCA memebers
The replies you have been getting are for the
SCCA Solo events --- parking lot
orange cones type of timed solo event. If
you're talking about road racing, I
don't think the SCCA has anyplace for our
cars --- the AWD seems to be a
problem for them.
On the other hand
just about every area has a track or two that allows for open
track events
---- It's a run what you brung format broken up into groups based
on
experience level, not car make or mods.
The following link will give you
an idea of the type of events offered and the
requirements --- there are many
other organizations that sanction the same type
of racing. This fall I went
together with 45 guys [ gathered over the internet ]
to Willow Springs for a
day of fast driving --- more on track hours than I could
use. No sanctioning
body, but we had the tow trucks, the medical aid and the
track workers
necessary to run the event. The price was $125 per person which
paid the
track rental and the personnel necessary to run the event.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/-
----- Original Message -----
From: Donnelly, Michael <
DonnellM@ctc.com>
To: <
team3s-digest@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:00 AM
Subject: Team3S: question for SCCA
memebers
> I have some questions for the 3si club members that
frequent the SCCA. I'm
> thinking about going to some events but I'd
like to know what I getting
> myself into.
>
> First some
background, I grew up in a muscle car fanatic family so I spent
> many a
Sunday at a NHRA sanctioned track but right now I actually want to
> use
that round ring thing that protrudes out of the dash. Anyway, here
is
> my situation. I have a 94' R/T TT with the following
mods.
>
> NO EGR valve
> Custom exhaust - no cats, an upgraded
Y down pipe and mufflers with what can
> be best described as 3" sewer
pipes sticking out the rear end.
> HKS boost controller - set to 1
bar
> FKN air filter.
> ENKEI RP01 wheels. ~10 lbs./wheel less
than stock chrome ones :) :) :)
>
> I think that puts me just
over the 400 hp mark and I'm guessing it would run
> low 13's in the
¼.
>
> My questions are what class would I be in? Who would I
be running with
> (read other vehicle makes). How competitive could
I be, IOW how do our
> vehicles stack up? And the general question
about the safety equipment I
> need, cost and basically anything else that
would be good to know?
>
> Michael Donnelly
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:02:34
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Altered Atmosphere
What are the before and after numbers ?????
What
performance did you get for your money
??????????
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Roger Gerl (RTEC) <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: Payne,
Scott <
SPayne@hunton.com>; Team3S
(E-mail) <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, December 27, 2001 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Altered
Atmosphere
> Do you have any chance to scan the dyno sheet ? I
wonder how the peak looks
> like at the top hp (timing retard)
>
> Question : What fuel pump are you running ? And what kind of fuel do
you use
> ?
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> > WOW, I
didnt mean to stir up so much stuff!!
> > Anyway, being a novice, I
found their shop and staff to be outstanding. I
> > got excatly what I
paid for.
> > I got the following -
> > HKS DLI Ignition
amp
> > Y-Pipe
> > Down Pipe
> > High Flow
Cat
> > 2 Gutted Pre-Cats
> > 6 NGK Plugs
> > Blitz
SBC I-D Boost Controller
> > 2 Dyno Runs
> >
> >
Results -
> > 316 HP at the wheels at 15.9 boost
> > 345 Lbs
Torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:34:57
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
> I'm not sure about the class
you would be in, I'm thinking
> it would be BSP (street prepared class B),
but with the
> boost controller, that might put you in another class,
>I don't know which one. I would contact the SCCA to be
sure.
Any sort of boost controller or modification to the boost control
system
puts you in Prepared class. Around here in Minnesota we class
'em in AP for
turbo 3/S cars. That's probably where SCCA would class
it, but they haven't
really made an "official" ruling on it as far as I
know. That puts you up
against the best of the best for street cars -
Porsches, Vipers, blah blah
blah...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:44:26
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
> I'm not sure about the class
you would be in, I'm thinking
> it would be BSP (street prepared class B),
but with the
> boost controller, that might put you in another
class,
>I don't know which one. I would contact the SCCA to be
sure.
After posting my response I saw there are a few other opinions on
where it
gets classed. The only real way to do it is to talk to your
local Rules
Chairperson. They should be able to make a ruling on what
class they want
you to be in. A lot of local clubs don't adhere
strictly to the SCCA
classing, but use it as a guideline if they aren't an
official SCCA
autocross club.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:57:44
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
You don't want to go play with the
SCCA and their kiddycars. They set their
autocourses up for mostly first gear
running on postage-stamp parking lots,
so little go-kart-like turbo shitboxes
(Omni GLH turbos, etc) rule the roost.
It's humiliating to be beaten by a
1.6 L four-door sedan from the 1970s.
On the other hand, go play with the
Corvette Club. They set their 'crosses
up for heavy, high-horsepower cars, so
you see a LOT of second gear work,
sometimes third, on airport courses and
paved ovals. When the little
turboshitboxes come out to play at a Corvette
'cross, THEY get humiliated
(as they should).
Our cars are in their
element on a Corvette 'Cross...One time I came in 4th
out of 65 Vettes, and
the three that beat me were trailer queens
(out-and-out racers that come in
on a trailer). On another -- a parking lot
'cross -- the only car that beat
me was the organizer in his 1970 454
Vette, which JUST HAPPENED to be
perfectly geared for the course.
So try the local Corvette Club. Their
courses are much more fun for bigger,
high hp cars like ours. We have to run
in Guest class, but you are
virtually certain of winning it.
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:31:48
-0700
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
- --------
+> You don't
want to go play with the SCCA and their kiddycars. They set their
+>
autocourses up for mostly first gear running on postage-stamp parking
lots,
+> so little go-kart-like turbo shitboxes (Omni GLH turbos, etc)
rule the roost
<snip>
hmm.. I think I take offense to
this.. I generally enjoy your road racing
posts, but negative crap like
this just turns me off.. I've always wanted
to get into road course
stuff, but if that's the general attitude of your
group, I'm not even
remotely interested.
why must so many people beat their chest and
talk shit about what interests
others. god forbid if I owned a
"hon-DUH". oh, wait I have. many.
actually about 40 cars
so far in my comparatively short driving time.
loved them
all.
Dave
95 Black 3000GT VR4
87 Mica Red GTI G60 (go-kart-like
supercharged shitbox kiddycar)
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:35:04
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Racing seats + stock seatbelt?
Actually, a cage is not
recommended unless you are not going to make it
your daily driver
anymore. A rollbar is the preferred way to go since
there is an option
to upgrade the rollbar to a rollcage if you get to
that point. Also, a
beefy rear strut tower bar will suffice as the
harness bar in a time of
emergency (Jim Berry's car) but make sure it is
ready to take the 2G loading
of two 250-pound passengers (500 pounds *
2G).
First and foremost ...
realize that you will lose your rear speakers and
considerable access to the
rear seats.
See the bottom for answers to the original
question.
On my website and the Team3S site there are some pictures of my
rollbar,
race seat, and safety harness installation. I need to take
more and
finish the install notes. Write me if you have an immediate
need.
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htmwww.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/harness/harness.htmlwww.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/seat/seat.htmlwww.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/rollbar/rollbar.htmlIn
many tracks I drive at the governing body (Porsche Club, Audi Club,
BMW Club,
EMRA, NASA, etc.) require the safety harness to run horizontal
to the
shoulder and over a harness bar before diving down to a tie-in
point.
That means that you are sometimes not allowed to put a race
harness on the
stock seat if your shoulders are taller than the back of
the seat. This
is to prevent your spine from getting compressed in an
accident when the
belts tighten and want to push you down into the seat.
I contacted Sparco
(make of my race seat) who said the belt may go up or
down about 3"-6" before
going over a harness bar. I can't remember
exactly but it could go down
a little. With the race seat in my car the
belts go down about 2"
before going around the bar. This works in my
car obviously.
The
rollbar I purchased (Autopower Race Rollbar from
www.ioportracing.com has an option of a
harness bar. If you are going
to use safety harnesses then you need to
get this harness bar ($50
extra). The bar was $400, harness bar $50,
diagonal crossbrace
(recommended) was $50, and shipping was $90. Wait 4
weeks and spend
$590 for some serious peace of mind when on the
track.
Getting back to the original question ... there is no way to
attach
stock seatbelt mounting points (the part you click your belt into) to
a
race seat. However, you can make things happen. The stock
seatbelt
thing attaches to the stock seat. To remove it you take off
two bolts,
unplug the wires that tell the dash to light the "seatbelt
unplugged
light" and then you will see the problem that you can not easily
remove
this part. Just buy another seatbelt clip-in thing from an
Eclipse or a
junkyard and bolt this to one of the race seat mounting
brackets. I
have not done this yet.
With my race seat and race
harness installed I am technically illegal
for inspection. Therefore
you CAN get a ticket when driving on the road
and a cop spots you.
Plugging the driver's belt into the passenger's
plug might work to "get
by." And remember to use ONLY Grade 8 (English)
or 8.8 (Metric) bolts
in the seat and harness and rollbar mounting
places. If things break
from your setup then people will notice that
you did not use stock bolts or
mounting locations.
Write me more for details. There are plenty of
words of advice I have
not added to those pages yet and some things you need
to know before
starting a project like that. I am glad to see others
wanting to add
them though.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.comwww.speedtoys.com1995 VR-4, rollbar,
race seat, race harness (when in track mode)
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001
12:07
You can get adaptors to use the OEM belt anchors in the front
and
back..which isnt too bad, it works without a cage, but a cage
is
preferableb.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:37:24
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
I agree.
Anyone who doesnt
appreciate what others do in -any- form of racing, isnt
a true motorsports
enthusiast.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Dave Monarchi wrote:
>
> --------
>
> +> You don't want to go play with the SCCA
and their kiddycars. They set their
> +> autocourses up for mostly
first gear running on postage-stamp parking lots,
> +> so little
go-kart-like turbo shitboxes (Omni GLH turbos, etc) rule the roost
>
<snip>
>
> hmm.. I think I take offense to this..
I generally enjoy your road racing
> posts, but negative crap like this
just turns me off.. I've always wanted
> to get into road course
stuff, but if that's the general attitude of your
> group, I'm not even
remotely interested.
>
> why must so many people beat their
chest and talk shit about what interests
> others. god forbid if I
owned a "hon-DUH". oh, wait I have. many.
> actually
about 40 cars so far in my comparatively short driving time.
> loved them
all.
>
> Dave
>
> 95 Black 3000GT VR4
> 87 Mica
Red GTI G60 (go-kart-like supercharged shitbox kiddycar)
>
>
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:47:50
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
As a former owner of a Mitsu GSX,
I can say that Rich, a CURRENT owner of a
GSX, is well-qualified to use the
term "littel go-kart-like turbo
shitboxes"!
Come on Dave, lighten
up!
The technical content is that there are different kinds of AutoX
events, and
that the setup for the course makes a big difference in which
cars are most
successful in negotiating the course. I think I would
rather compete in a
3000GT on the course set up for Corvettes than for little
cars, if I was
into competition and such.
BTW some of the most
interesting road course events I've been to have been
Dealer events - John
Eagle Honda, where you had everything from a Civic to
an S2000 running on the
course. Funny thing is that there are road course
configurations that
are biased to little cars, too. The short course at TWS
is made for a
Miata, except of course the front straight.
Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Monarchi
[SMTP:monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001
3:32 PM
> To: Merritt
> Cc:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
>
>
>
--------
>
> +> You don't want to go play with the SCCA and
their kiddycars. They set
> their
> +> autocourses up for mostly
first gear running on postage-stamp parking
> lots,
> +> so
little go-kart-like turbo shitboxes (Omni GLH turbos, etc) rule the
>
roost
> <snip>
>
> hmm.. I think I take offense
to this.. I generally enjoy your road
> racing
> posts, but
negative crap like this just turns me off.. I've always wanted
> to
get into road course stuff, but if that's the general attitude of your
>
group, I'm not even remotely interested.
>
> why must so
many people beat their chest and talk shit about what
> interests
>
others. god forbid if I owned a "hon-DUH". oh, wait I have.
many.
> actually about 40 cars so far in my comparatively short
driving time.
> loved them all.
>
> Dave
>
> 95
Black 3000GT VR4
> 87 Mica Red GTI G60 (go-kart-like supercharged shitbox
kiddycar)
>
>
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:50:11
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
Doesn't Rich get any points for
the pre-Christmas lawnmower racing thread?
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 3:37
PM
> To: Dave Monarchi
> Cc: Merritt;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
>
> I
agree.
>
> Anyone who doesnt appreciate what others do in -any-
form of racing, isnt
> a true motorsports enthusiast.
>
>
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Dave Monarchi wrote:
>
> >
> > --------
> >
> > +> You don't want to go
play with the SCCA and their kiddycars. They set
> their
> >
+> autocourses up for mostly first gear running on postage-stamp
parking
> lots,
> > +> so little go-kart-like turbo shitboxes
(Omni GLH turbos, etc) rule
> the roost
> > <snip>
>
>
> > hmm.. I think I take offense to this.. I
generally enjoy your road
> racing
> > posts, but negative crap
like this just turns me off.. I've always
> wanted
> > to
get into road course stuff, but if that's the general attitude of
>
your
> > group, I'm not even remotely interested.
> >
> > why must so many people beat their chest and talk shit about
what
> interests
> > others. god forbid if I owned a
"hon-DUH". oh, wait I have. many.
> > actually about
40 cars so far in my comparatively short driving time.
> > loved them
all.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > 95 Black 3000GT
VR4
> > 87 Mica Red GTI G60 (go-kart-like supercharged shitbox
kiddycar)
> >
> >
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:54:28
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
*heh*
Ya..but now were off
topic..so we'd better get back on track. :^)
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001,
Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> Doesn't Rich get any points for the
pre-Christmas lawnmower racing thread?
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001
3:37 PM
> > To: Dave Monarchi
> > Cc: Merritt;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
> >
> > I
agree.
> >
> > Anyone who doesnt appreciate what others do in
-any- form of racing, isnt
> > a true motorsports enthusiast.
>
>
> >
> > On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Dave Monarchi
wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > --------
> >
>
> > > +> You don't want to go play with the SCCA and their
kiddycars. They set
> > their
> > > +> autocourses up
for mostly first gear running on postage-stamp parking
> >
lots,
> > > +> so little go-kart-like turbo shitboxes (Omni GLH
turbos, etc) rule
> > the roost
> > > <snip>
>
> >
> > > hmm.. I think I take offense to this..
I generally enjoy your road
> > racing
> > > posts, but
negative crap like this just turns me off.. I've always
> >
wanted
> > > to get into road course stuff, but if that's the
general attitude of
> > your
> > > group, I'm not even
remotely interested.
> > >
> > > why must so
many people beat their chest and talk shit about what
> > interests
> > > others. god forbid if I owned a "hon-DUH". oh,
wait I have. many.
> > > actually about 40 cars so far
in my comparatively short driving time.
> > > loved them
all.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> 95 Black 3000GT VR4
> > > 87 Mica Red GTI G60 (go-kart-like
supercharged shitbox kiddycar)
> > >
>
> >
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
> > >
> > > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > Geoff
Mohler
> >
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:52:38
-0700
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
- --------
+> As a
former owner of a Mitsu GSX, I can say that Rich, a CURRENT owner of a
+>
GSX, is well-qualified to use the term "littel go-kart-like turbo
+>
shitboxes"!
that makes it ok to make others feel their pride and joy is a
"shitbox"?
+> Come on Dave, lighten up!
not likely.
there's absolutely no reason for that. it's purely negative.
btw,
how do you connect to the Internet? god forbid you actually DIALUP
to
AOL.. those losers deserve to get a busy signal.. buddy lists???
what is that crap!? if you want to play with the BIG BOYS, get
yourself
some fiber at T3+.. oh and dump the GUI PCs and MACs..
your not a real
man unless you use CLI.. for God's sake at least run
Linux or BSD..
get the point? if not, the above was a joke..
no offense intended
whatsoever to anyone.. trying feebly to make an
analogy..
+> The technical content is that there are different
kinds of AutoX events, and
+> that the setup for the course makes a big
difference in which cars are most
+> successful in negotiating the
course. I think I would rather compete in a
+> 3000GT on the course
set up for Corvettes than for little cars, if I was
+> into competition
and such.
hmm.. perhaps some autoXs are just TOO challenging for
some people. I
already do quite well in the GTI, so when a SOLO2
driver school came up
last spring, I took the 3000GT. I dunno bout the
rest of you, but I don't
often get to drive 100+ on the public roads.
I _DO_ however find myself in
similar situations as experienced in
autocrossing. I guess I just shouldn't
bother driving a 320HP beast on
the street eh?
+> BTW some of the most interesting road course events
I've been to have been
+> Dealer events - John Eagle Honda, where you had
everything from a Civic to
+> an S2000 running on the course. Funny
thing is that there are road course
+> configurations that are biased to
little cars, too. The short course at TWS
+> is made for a Miata,
except of course the front straight.
Geez you guys are missing the
point. Is WINNING the only thing that's
important to you? you
won't bother if you're not going to automatically
be at the top of the
heap???
so, in trying to keep some useful content here, what I'm getting
at is
you can learn an awful lot about driving by throwing a 2 ton car
around
an autocross course. The amount of finesse needed to be smooth
in the
3000 is night and day different than the GTI. I enjoy running
both
cars equally and get completely different experiences in each car.
I wholeheartedly agree the 3000 is more difficult to be competitive
with
given the other cars within the class. I get my ass handed to me
EVERY
event I run it in. However, I still LEARN a lot every time I go,
and have
a lot of fun in the process. Perhaps we have different
motivation.
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:40:47
-0800
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
My two cents....
I think if
you enjoy your car whether it be a 3S or a Gremlin/Pacer if your
involved in
the sport then kudo's for you. I for one have taken the
Performance Driving
School and will join SCCA the second they finish the new
SIR. I found that
everybody...especially those who drive "shitboxes" were
helpfull and very
informative..most of all friendly. I could honestly say
it's because of them
I didn't go home in the passenger seat of a tow truck.
I can remember a day
when I drove a station wagon in High School......Yeah
it was a hooptie, but
it was my hooptie.........Van Halen logo painted on
the hood and a bumper
sticker that said "don't laugh your daughter is in the
back".
You got
to love the linux...........
bobk.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Dave Monarchi
Sent: Thursday,
December 27, 2001 2:53 PM
To: Willis, Charles E.
Cc: Merritt;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers
- --------
+> As
a former owner of a Mitsu GSX, I can say that Rich, a CURRENT owner
of
a
+> GSX, is well-qualified to use the term "littel go-kart-like
turbo
+> shitboxes"!
that makes it ok to make others feel their
pride and joy is a "shitbox"?
+> Come on Dave, lighten up!
not
likely. there's absolutely no reason for that. it's purely
negative.
btw, how do you connect to the Internet? god forbid you
actually DIALUP
to AOL.. those losers deserve to get a busy
signal.. buddy lists???
what is that crap!? if you want to play
with the BIG BOYS, get yourself
some fiber at T3+.. oh and dump the GUI
PCs and MACs.. your not a real
man unless you use CLI.. for God's
sake at least run Linux or BSD..
get the point? if not, the above
was a joke.. no offense intended
whatsoever to anyone.. trying
feebly to make an analogy..
+> The technical content is that there are
different kinds of AutoX events,
and
+> that the setup for the course
makes a big difference in which cars are
most
+> successful in
negotiating the course. I think I would rather compete in
a
+>
3000GT on the course set up for Corvettes than for little cars, if I
was
+> into competition and such.
hmm.. perhaps some autoXs
are just TOO challenging for some people. I
already do quite well in
the GTI, so when a SOLO2 driver school came up
last spring, I took the
3000GT. I dunno bout the rest of you, but I don't
often get to drive
100+ on the public roads. I _DO_ however find myself in
similar
situations as experienced in autocrossing. I guess I just
shouldn't
bother driving a 320HP beast on the street eh?
+> BTW
some of the most interesting road course events I've been to
have
been
+> Dealer events - John Eagle Honda, where you had everything
from a Civic
to
+> an S2000 running on the course. Funny thing is
that there are road
course
+> configurations that are biased to little
cars, too. The short course at
TWS
+> is made for a Miata, except
of course the front straight.
Geez you guys are missing the point.
Is WINNING the only thing that's
important to you? you won't bother if
you're not going to automatically
be at the top of the heap???
so, in
trying to keep some useful content here, what I'm getting at is
you can learn
an awful lot about driving by throwing a 2 ton car around
an autocross
course. The amount of finesse needed to be smooth in the
3000 is night
and day different than the GTI. I enjoy running both
cars equally and
get completely different experiences in each car.
I wholeheartedly agree
the 3000 is more difficult to be competitive with
given the other cars within
the class. I get my ass handed to me EVERY
event I run it in.
However, I still LEARN a lot every time I go, and have
a lot of fun in the
process. Perhaps we have different
motivation.
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html=
There is no spoon.. =
=======================
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 05:38:10
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: turbo shitboxes
At 03:47 PM 12/27/01 -0600, Willis, Charles E.
wrote:
>As a former owner of a Mitsu GSX, I can say that Rich, a CURRENT
owner of a
>GSX, is well-qualified to use the term "littel go-kart-like
turbo
>shitboxes"! Come on Dave, lighten up!
Hear, hear.
Thanks, Chuck.
Whassamatter with you guys anyway? Xmas got you down?
Yeah, I own a turbo shitbox myself and if an SCCA autocross came up,
I'd
run it instead of the VR4.
> I think I would rather
compete in a
>3000GT on the course set up for Corvettes than for little
cars, if I was
>into competition and such.
Exactly my point.
>
Rich
94 VR4
92 Eagle Talon TSi
turboshitbox.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 06:41:33
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: winning at autocrosses
>
>Geez you guys are missing
the point. Is WINNING the only thing that's
>important to you?
you won't bother if you're not going to automatically
>be at the top of
the heap???
The word is "competitive," but you are right. There is no
point in running
any event if you don't at least have a chance to win or to
set competitive
times in your class or run group.
>
>so, in
trying to keep some useful content here, what I'm getting at is
>you can
learn an awful lot about driving by throwing a 2 ton car around
>an
autocross course.
There are people on this list who autocross a 3000GT
quite sucessfully.
I've seen their video tapes. Awesome sights and sounds.
As for me, I don't particularly like the violence, 1st gear
running,
scuffed tires, and waiting all dang day to get three 1-minute runs
on cold
tires and cold brakes. I do run a Corvette Club autocross every now
and
then to check out a new mod on the car or if there isn't anything else
to
do, but I'll run an SCCA autocross only if I'm desperate.
Corvette
club events are much faster and easier on the car. Imagine running
an entire
'cross in 2nd and 3rd gear! Where SCCA events are an ordeal,
Corvette club
events are fun.
There is little relationship between SCCA autocrossing
in parking lots and
street driving, and I don't think it teaches you much in
the way of high
speed car handling. For example, one way to make a 3000GT
competitive at a
'cross is to increase the toe-in at the rear, so it
will rotate easier.
However, on a real road, if you slam on the brakes at
high speed in a car
with lots of rear toe, the rear end will come around on
you.
Let's run a typical SCCA autocross and see how much relation there
is to
real driving:
Start: 6000 rpm, dump the clutch, smoke all
four tires in a drag strip
launch. Yeah, I guess some of us do that.
Accelerate to the rev limiter in 1st gear -- oops, the turn is another
20
ft away, so keep it at 7200 rpm rather than shift up/shift down.
Keeping
the car on the rev limiter is a real good street driving technique.
Slam on the brakes (oooh, they are cold!). This will make you stick
to
street pads.
Turn in, hammer the gas, and smoke all four tires
through the turn, letting
the front traction pull you through. Out in the
real world, turns aren't
that tight so as to require such violent action.
Besides, Officer Friendly
will have something smart to say if you drive
through turns like that on
the street.
Accelerate to the rev limiter
and repeat for 25 more tight turns linked by
short little straights.
That's the only way I can see to make a 3000GT fast in an autocross,
and
the videos I've seen indicate I'm not far off. Guys who are really fast
in
a 'cross have figured out how to do all this a bit more smoothly, of
course.
I used to run autocrosses all the time in my old Vette, so I know
a little
bit about the subject. Not as much as the folks who do it all the
time, of
course, but enough to know that 3000GTs do not belong in
postage-stamp-size
1st gear autocrosses. Leave those to the lil bitty go-kart
turbo ECONOBOXES
instead. (izzat better?)
Rich/slow old poop
94
VR4
92 Eagle Talon TSi
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:28:16
-0800
From: "Jamie Marzonie" <
jsmarzonie@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers - disertation
Well... with so much
bandwidth given to this topic, I had to chime in.
SCCA has done alot for
autosport... but I have a few gripes about how they
conduct business at
times. I am a NASA member, and prefer NASA over SCCA.
NASA is
growing very fast. They are rolling out an F3000 type series which
should be cool.
NASA is more grassroots than SCCA... and I think
thats really why I prefer
it.
On the "shitbox" theory... ever see a
neon pass an NXS... I have =). The
Stealth is fun to race and hit the
twisties with... but in all honesty.. the
3/S are made as touring
cars. I'll run my neon around the Stealth at
Thunderhill all day...
Neon = Go Cart.. just add slicks (a race engine helps
too!)
Side note
-
1st work on the Stealth will start tonight!!! The WP gasket is
dripping, so
the full on service is happening (belts, plugs, wires, fuel
filter, oil).
The turbos will love me when I take out that crap oil
the car had in it. I
may do rotors and pads as well. Fun fun
fun!
_________________________________________________________________
Send
and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:59:12
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question for SCCA memebers - disertation
>SCCA has done
alot for autosport... but I have a few gripes about how they
conduct
business at times.
I saw them ruin pro rallying, so pray they
don't discover open tracking.
>On the "shitbox" theory... ever see a
neon pass an NXS... I have =). The
>Stealth is fun to race and hit
the twisties with... but in all honesty.. the
>3/S are made as touring
cars. I'll run my neon around the Stealth at
>Thunderhill all
day... Neon = Go Cart.. just add slicks (a race engine helps
>too!)
I ran up against a race-prepped Neon at Blackhawk Farms. We
were even
through the twisty bits, but the VR4 engine just flat ran him down
on the
straights. Without a suitable straightaway, it would be tough to catch
a
well-driven Neon. Same with race-prepped 914 Porsches and Mini
Coopers,
which seem to have no need to brake before corners. Lots of folks in
little
shitbox cars go very, very fast out there, even though they may be 30
mph
slower on long straights.
I have great hopes for my shitbox
Talon. It may yet replace the VR4 as my
track car if things work out.
Rich/slow old poop
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#710
***************************************