Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, November 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 686




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:59:06 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile ET question (math question?)

This is the kind of... math that belongs on Team-3S, regardless of the context!

I think this math is good enough to tell how many car lengths one car is
behind the other. In real life you will need to use RT1+ET1-RT2-ET2 to
calculate the time difference.

Philip

At 09:19 PM 11/27/01, Bill vP wrote:
>I have a question about differences in ET and how far back that you think
>someone would be with a slower ET.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:15:34 -0500
From: "Bill vP" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile ET question (math question?)

Yes, I know this, and that is why I only used ET as the determining factor.
So by my method, with the 2 cars with different traps and identical ET, then
the difference in ET would be zero, so that would be the number used.
Therefore to determine how far "back" the "2nd" car would be, you would see
how far a car would travel in zero seconds at 100 mph.  The result would of
course be zero feet, so the reasoning would hold in this case also.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Richard <radanc@home.com>
To: Bill vP <billvp@highstream.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile ET question (math question?)

> Sure but acceleration times through the traps are never equal through
> the gears thats why you can have identical finish times and much
> different speed through the finish trap.
>
> Bill vP wrote:
> >
> > I have a question about differences in ET and how far back that you
think
> > someone would be with a slower ET.  I know that every run would be a
little
> > different, but is the following scenario valid?
> >
> > Let's say that both car 1 and car 2 have the same reaction time, and
both
> > accelerate normally.
> > Car 1 is the faster car and finishes in 13.0 seconds
> > Car 2 finishes in 13.5 seconds and traps at ~100 mph
> >
> > Now the question is, how far behind car 1 is car 2 when it goes thru the
> > traps, i.e. finishes ?
> >
> > Trap speed for the quicker car would seem to be irrelevant.
> > Now by my reasoning, since car 1 finishes 0.5 seconds faster, then you
can
> > use that 0.5 seconds as a time difference.  Then you see how far car 2
> > travels at ~100 mph (the trap) in 0.5 seconds
> >
> > Now 100 mph is about equal to 147 ft per second, so car 2 would have
> > traveled about 74 ft in the last 0.5 seconds, and this is the difference
> > between the two cars (in length).  So for every 0.1 seconds back in ET
(+\-
> > rt if necessary) a 100 mph trapping car would be about 15 ft behind,
which
> > is about 1 car length for every 0.1 seconds back for a 100 mph trapping
car.
> >
> > Is there some fatal flaw in this reasoning?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:44:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Oleg Malkin <olegmalkin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Car dies in reverse

This problem started today:
Evrything seemed to be normal except when I put it in
reverse, after filling up the gas tank, the car died.
I have an auto transmission and now every time I put
it in reverse it either drops the rps to like 100 or
it just dies. The car has 115K miles on it and it is a
93, so maybe there is something that needs to be done
now? I need help, quick.

                                        Oleg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:54:57 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping

Personally I dont think that a bad ECU is the cause of your problem. I had
problems like that on my old 351 Cleveland. A bad plug, bad plug lead,
faulty coil all possibilities. On the Cleveland I had tracking on the dizzy
cap and on another occasion a bad pionts condenser ( capacitor ) all caused
the same problem.
 Sure rebuild the ECU it will need doing anyway. Add solder to the old caps
before you remove them and  remember to clean the crud off the board after
you've removed the old caps.  Leave the new caps standing high off the board
so you can solder them on both sides of the board. Good luck.

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:35:28 -0500
From: "Boris" <BPeguero@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: Parts for Sale

Hello everybody,

I have 2 1991 Stealth R/T TT aluminum heads for sale, complete with cam and
valve assembly ($600 + shipping).
Exhaust manifolds ($150 + shipping)
Intake manifold and plenum with throttle body ($180 + shipping)
6 stock injectors ($50 + shipping)
6 iridium spark plugs with under 500 miles on them ($25 + shipping)
GTR combat wing painted black with white accents (includes a third brake
light) ($200 + shipping-- excellent buy)
OEM spoiler ($40 +shipping)

Please e-mail me privately if you are interested in any of these items.  All
of these parts come from my 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T TT.

Thank you,

Boris

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:51:19 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car dies in reverse

Bet it's the gas. Maybe you got some water. Try an additive, like DryGas.
Go back to the station and yell at them.
Rich

At 08:44 PM 11/27/01 -0800, Oleg Malkin wrote:
>This problem started today:
>Evrything seemed to be normal except when I put it in
>reverse, after filling up the gas tank, the car died.
>I have an auto transmission and now every time I put
>it in reverse it either drops the rps to like 100 or
>it just dies. The car has 115K miles on it and it is a
>93, so maybe there is something that needs to be done
>now? I need help, quick.
>
>                                        Oleg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 12:58:35 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

I have a Weller soldering iron made for PC board type
work --- it is 60 Watts with a fairly fine tip

The key is to use as little heat as possible --- you need to
melt the solder but you don't want to burn the board.

        Jim Berry
=====================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

> What watt iron do you suggest ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 1996 4:14 AM
> To: ThorHolth@aol.com; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping
>
> If it ain't broke don't fix it.
>
> Make sure that the caps are bad before you start pulling. If you did
> a search of the archives you'll know what to look for ---- they will have
> electrolyte leaking from the capicitors and they will have a fishy smell.
> The electrolyte may not be visible --- it was, in the case of my ECU, but
> the fish smell is there if they are leaking. You should also have a good
> solder puller --- Radio Shack should have a suction type that is cheap.
> Use a quality soldering iron --- the gun type usually get too hot. Too
> much heat can cause the pads to lift from the PC board.
>
> It's not difficult but take your time ---
>
>         Jim Berry
> ===================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ThorHolth@aol.com>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:35 AM
> Subject: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > thanks for the helpful advice, I guess I must be suffering from the "leaky
>
> > capacitor" problem.  I'll be pulling the ECU tonight, and assaulting it
> with
> > my trusty soldering iron.
> >
> > -thor

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:27:40 -0600
From: "Richard Fennell" <realmstl@home.com>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

Jim,

Check the wattage on your iron.

60 watts is very hot.

I use a 25 watt iron with a thin gage solder.

Radio shack has a good selection.  Make sure you tin the tip of a new iron.

When soldering you need to get some heat into the lead of the part so the
solder sticks to it.

Capacitors are pretty good with heat. It's the IC chips that have a problem
and cook.

I agree, though, you want to get in and get out with the iron.

If I am working on a board and worried about heat, I keep a damp rag near by
and blot around the area to help draw the heat off.

Rich
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>; <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 1996 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

> I have a Weller soldering iron made for PC board type
> work --- it is 60 Watts with a fairly fine tip
>
> The key is to use as little heat as possible --- you need to
> melt the solder but you don't want to burn the board.
>
>         Jim Berry
> =====================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 1:17 PM
> Subject: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement
>
> > What watt iron do you suggest ?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 01, 1996 4:14 AM
> > To: ThorHolth@aol.com; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping
> >
> > If it ain't broke don't fix it.
> >
> > Make sure that the caps are bad before you start pulling. If you did
> > a search of the archives you'll know what to look for ---- they will
have
> > electrolyte leaking from the capicitors and they will have a fishy
smell.
> > The electrolyte may not be visible --- it was, in the case of my ECU,
but
> > the fish smell is there if they are leaking. You should also have a good
> > solder puller --- Radio Shack should have a suction type that is cheap.
> > Use a quality soldering iron --- the gun type usually get too hot. Too
> > much heat can cause the pads to lift from the PC board.
> >
> > It's not difficult but take your time ---
> >
> >         Jim Berry
> > ===================================================
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <ThorHolth@aol.com>
> > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:35 AM
> > Subject: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > thanks for the helpful advice, I guess I must be suffering from the
"leaky
> >
> > > capacitor" problem.  I'll be pulling the ECU tonight, and assaulting
it
> > with
> > > my trusty soldering iron.
> > >
> > > -thor

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:52:00 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Soldering - ECU capacitor replacement

Use a low wattage soldering iron (25 watts is good) when working with
sensitive components-- IC's, transistors, etc.  Even capacitors can only
take so much.  I'd be *very* careful with a 60 watt iron.

Try to use a 'heat sink' (something to absorb the heat) between the
component and the solder joint, whenever possible - clip it on the wire lead
between the heat and the part.  If there is enough space between component
and board, a tiny alligator clip or two will work.  I use a set of small
hemostats.  Radio shack has a number of different varieties of heat sinks,
and they're cheap insurance against frying a part.  A damp (not wet) rag
works, but we liked keeping parts about to be soldered on an ice pack
covered with a dry rag.  The colder part will give you an extra second of
soldering heat before getting damaged.  Plan ahead, and work quickly, and
you'll be fine.

- --Forrest

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Fennell" <realmstl@home.com>
To: "Team3S" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:27 PM
Subject: Fw: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement
> Jim,
> Check the wattage on your iron.
> 60 watts is very hot.
> I use a 25 watt iron with a thin gage solder.
> Radio shack has a good selection.  Make sure you tin the tip of a new
iron.
> When soldering you need to get some heat into the lead of the part so the
solder sticks to it.
> Capacitors are pretty good with heat. It's the IC chips that have a
problem and cook.
> I agree, though, you want to get in and get out with the iron.
> If I am working on a board and worried about heat, I keep a damp rag near
by
> and blot around the area to help draw the heat off.
> Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:51:51 -0800 (PST)
From: glenn amy <glenn_amy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile ET question (math question?)

Your reasoning should give an answer that is close.
But, remember that car 2 isn't going 100mph between
13.0 and 13.5 seconds.  At 13.0 seconds, it might be
going 96.  Since the average speed from 13.0 seconds
to 13.5 seconds is less than 100, car 2 will be a foot
or 2 closer than in your calculation.

Glenn
'93 VR-4

- --- Bill vP <billvp@highstream.net> wrote:
> I have a question about differences in ET and how
> far back that you think
> someone would be with a slower ET.  I know that
> every run would be a little
> different, but is the following scenario valid?
>
> Let's say that both car 1 and car 2 have the same
> reaction time, and both
> accelerate normally.
> Car 1 is the faster car and finishes in 13.0 seconds
> Car 2 finishes in 13.5 seconds and traps at ~100 mph
>
> Now the question is, how far behind car 1 is car 2
> when it goes thru the
> traps, i.e. finishes ?
>
> Trap speed for the quicker car would seem to be
> irrelevant.
> Now by my reasoning, since car 1 finishes 0.5
> seconds faster, then you can
> use that 0.5 seconds as a time difference.  Then you
> see how far car 2
> travels at ~100 mph (the trap) in 0.5 seconds
>
> Now 100 mph is about equal to 147 ft per second, so
> car 2 would have
> traveled about 74 ft in the last 0.5 seconds, and
> this is the difference
> between the two cars (in length).  So for every 0.1
> seconds back in ET (+\-
> rt if necessary) a 100 mph trapping car would be
> about 15 ft behind, which
> is about 1 car length for every 0.1 seconds back for
> a 100 mph trapping car.
>
> Is there some fatal flaw in this reasoning?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 23:23:50 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

You're right on the wattage --- 25 or so is what I remember, I looked
at the bottom of the soldering station and it said 60 watts but that's
probably a maximum UL rating of some kind.

Jim Berry
=========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Fennell" <realmstl@home.com>
To: "Team3S" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:27 PM
Subject: Fw: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement


> Jim,
>
> Check the wattage on your iron.
>
> 60 watts is very hot.
>
> I use a 25 watt iron with a thin gage solder.
>
> Radio shack has a good selection.  Make sure you tin the tip of a new iron.
>
> When soldering you need to get some heat into the lead of the part so the
> solder sticks to it.
>
> Capacitors are pretty good with heat. It's the IC chips that have a problem
> and cook.
>
> I agree, though, you want to get in and get out with the iron.
>
> If I am working on a board and worried about heat, I keep a damp rag near by
> and blot around the area to help draw the heat off.
>
> Rich
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> To: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>; <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 1996 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement
>
>
> > I have a Weller soldering iron made for PC board type
> > work --- it is 60 Watts with a fairly fine tip
> >
> > The key is to use as little heat as possible --- you need to
> > melt the solder but you don't want to burn the board.
> >
> >         Jim Berry
> > =====================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
> > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 1:17 PM
> > Subject: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement
> >
> > > What watt iron do you suggest ?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, January 01, 1996 4:14 AM
> > > To: ThorHolth@aol.com; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> > > Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping
> > >
> > > If it ain't broke don't fix it.
> > >
> > > Make sure that the caps are bad before you start pulling. If you did
> > > a search of the archives you'll know what to look for ---- they will
> have
> > > electrolyte leaking from the capicitors and they will have a fishy
> smell.
> > > The electrolyte may not be visible --- it was, in the case of my ECU,
> but
> > > the fish smell is there if they are leaking. You should also have a good
> > > solder puller --- Radio Shack should have a suction type that is cheap.
> > > Use a quality soldering iron --- the gun type usually get too hot. Too
> > > much heat can cause the pads to lift from the PC board.
> > >
> > > It's not difficult but take your time ---
> > >
> > >         Jim Berry
> > > ===================================================
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <ThorHolth@aol.com>
> > > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:35 AM
> > > Subject: Team3S: Engine stuttering/Tach Jumping
> > >
> > > > Hey all,
> > > >
> > > > thanks for the helpful advice, I guess I must be suffering from the
> "leaky
> > >
> > > > capacitor" problem.  I'll be pulling the ECU tonight, and assaulting
> it
> > > with
> > > > my trusty soldering iron.
> > > >
> > > > -thor

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 23:35:22 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: wideband O2

It's main use would be as a tuning aid ---- at a grand it's pricey, but if a
couple of guys went in on it and used it to tune a fuel controller it wouldn't
be too bad.

The engine computer sounds nice also, but with all the parameters that are
adjustable and outputs available you'd need to be smarter than I am to
fully utilize it.

        Jim Berry
======================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To: "'Jim Berry'" <fastmax@home.com>; "'Team 3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>

> Jim/List,  a couple of the MKIV guru's had bought one these a few months
> back.  These guys got them to try and do real time fueling adjustments, they
> mounted the O2 sensor in the top of the D/P just after the turbo(s).  Yes a
> single turbo guy did try the set up and liked it, he just didn't have 950
> bucks to drop on the kit :( 
>
> They liked them allot, It should also be noted the display module (EMD) is
> little bigger than AVC-R display.......   And we have a limited amount of
> space to mount things in our cars as is :(
>
> Another thing to note due to having two banks to monitor we may have to
> mount the WB O2 sensor just after the Y in a D/P for decent readings also
> mounted there you will see about 250-300 rpms of lag in your readings if you
> use it to make "real time" adjustments to our fuels curves.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 9:25 PM
> > To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st; 3sracers@speedtoys.com
> > Subject: Team3S: wideband O2
> >
> > Anybody know about this product or company --- Alamo is selling
> > a setup for $800 or so.
> >
> >  http://fjoinc.com/automotive/WBO2details.htm#afrdis
> >
> >
> >         Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: 28 Nov 2001 07:57:54 -0800
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: ECU repair

I still have capacitor sets for ECU repair(about 70) see the following thread on 3si:

http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=afad74d958d3e4776ef8548e4274d1d4&threadid=47505

klamathpro on 3si will do the ECU repair for $100. I beleieve all he does is replace the capacitors and check the ECU to see if it is working correctly(I have no clue how he checks the ECU).  IF you want to go this route don't buy capacitors from me.
See following thread.

http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=afad74d958d3e4776ef8548e4274d1d4&threadid=47086

After doing all this research and buying parts I had some electrical engineers at work look at my ECU and the Capacitors were still good.  So I am keeping as set as a saftey backup.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:05:17 -0500
From: "Volthause" <volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

Sorry for getting into this discussion so late, but soldering is one area
I've got loads of experience in... (never experienced hell like hand
soldering a 260 pin QFP)

Are these capacitors surface mount or through hole? The reason I ask is that
heat is an issue, as someone already said, in that it can lift the pads off
the PCB. However, if the capacitor is surface mount, then it was designed to
go through in IR (infrared) oven and can withstand a lot of heat from a
soldering iron.

With that in mind, it's difficult to say that using some form of heatsink
would be a good idea, because to achieve full solder wetting, you need the
pad, solder and leg of your component to be at reasonably high and equal
temperatures, otherwise you end up with cold solder joints which become
problematic with age and vibration.

Just my two cents.

- -Scott Holthausen
- -'94 VR4 for sale
109,000 miles
Blue
Pristine condition
$12,500 OBO

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
To: Richard Fennell <realmstl@home.com>; Team3S <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 1996 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

> You're right on the wattage --- 25 or so is what I remember, I looked
> at the bottom of the soldering station and it said 60 watts but that's
> probably a maximum UL rating of some kind.
>
> Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:50:31 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECU capacitor replacement

> Jim,
> Check the wattage on your iron.
> 60 watts is very hot.
> I use a 25 watt iron with a thin gage solder.

I agree with this - 60 watts is very hot for circuit board work.  60 watts
is more of a soldering "gun" type of heat for soldering heavy gauge wiring.
A 25 watt iron is hot enough where you can quickly get the existing solder
melted and removed without transferring a lot of excess heat into the
circuit traces and parts.

Its also preferable to use a grounded iron if possible.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:28:54 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile ET question (math question?)

Actually, the trap speed is not an extraneous speed at the moment of
crossing the 1/4 mile mark. The trap speed is the average speed of the car
over a 60" stretch between two beams at the end of the strip (do they call
them traps?). This makes Bill's formulas even more accurate than even if he
knew the instantaneous speed at the end of the 1/4 mile mark.

Philip

At 08:51 AM 11/28/01, glenn amy wrote:
>Your reasoning should give an answer that is close.
>But, remember that car 2 isn't going 100mph between
>13.0 and 13.5 seconds.  At 13.0 seconds, it might be
>going 96.  Since the average speed from 13.0 seconds
>to 13.5 seconds is less than 100, car 2 will be a foot
>or 2 closer than in your calculation.
>
>Glenn
>'93 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:55:58 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile ET question (math question?)

OOPS! It is "instantaneous", not "extraneous", !@#$ spell checker!

At 12:28 PM 11/28/01, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>Actually, the trap speed is not an extraneous speed at the moment of
>crossing the 1/4 mile mark. The trap speed is the average speed of the car
>over a 60" stretch between two beams at the end of the strip (do they call
>them traps?). This makes Bill's formulas even more accurate than even if
>he knew the instantaneous speed at the end of the 1/4 mile mark.
>
>Philip
>
>At 08:51 AM 11/28/01, glenn amy wrote:
>>Your reasoning should give an answer that is close.
>>But, remember that car 2 isn't going 100mph between
>>13.0 and 13.5 seconds.  At 13.0 seconds, it might be
>>going 96.  Since the average speed from 13.0 seconds
>>to 13.5 seconds is less than 100, car 2 will be a foot
>>or 2 closer than in your calculation.
>>
>>Glenn
>>'93 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:02:34 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

All -

Does anyone have any experience with what chains do/don't work on a VR-4?
I'd hate to have to buy traction tires just for a few days of winter driving
and occational trips to the ski slopes out here in the great NW.  I've got a
1994 VR-4 with stock 17' rims and tire size, and the H&R lowering springs
installed (these could make things really complicated, I fear).
 
I know I'll get at least a few responses telling me just not to drive in the
snow, but this is my daily driver, so I'll have to find a way to make it
work.

Thanks!
- - Brian

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:30:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

You can use the easy chains without much trouble.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Geddes, Brian J wrote:

> All -
>
> Does anyone have any experience with what chains do/don't work on a VR-4?
> I'd hate to have to buy traction tires just for a few days of winter driving
> and occational trips to the ski slopes out here in the great NW.  I've got a
> 1994 VR-4 with stock 17' rims and tire size, and the H&R lowering springs
> installed (these could make things really complicated, I fear).

> I know I'll get at least a few responses telling me just not to drive in the
> snow, but this is my daily driver, so I'll have to find a way to make it
> work.
>
> Thanks!
> - Brian
- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:17:45 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

What are "easy chains"?  Is this a brand, or just a style of chains?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:31 AM
> To: Geddes, Brian J
> Cc: Team3S Mailing List (E-mail); Starnet Mailing List (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?
>
>
> You can use the easy chains without much trouble.
>
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Geddes, Brian J wrote:
>
> > All -
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with what chains do/don't
> work on a VR-4?
> > I'd hate to have to buy traction tires just for a few days
> of winter driving
> > and occational trips to the ski slopes out here in the
> great NW.  I've got a
> > 1994 VR-4 with stock 17' rims and tire size, and the H&R
> lowering springs
> > installed (these could make things really complicated, I fear).
> > 
> > I know I'll get at least a few responses telling me just
> not to drive in the
> > snow, but this is my daily driver, so I'll have to find a
> way to make it
> > work.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > - Brian
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:42:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

They look more like springs..than chains themselves.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Geddes, Brian J wrote:

> What are "easy chains"?  Is this a brand, or just a style of chains?
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:31 AM
> > To: Geddes, Brian J
> > Cc: Team3S Mailing List (E-mail); Starnet Mailing List (E-mail)
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?
> >
> >
> > You can use the easy chains without much trouble.
> >
> > On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Geddes, Brian J wrote:
> >
> > > All -
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any experience with what chains do/don't
> > work on a VR-4?
> > > I'd hate to have to buy traction tires just for a few days
> > of winter driving
> > > and occational trips to the ski slopes out here in the
> > great NW.  I've got a
> > > 1994 VR-4 with stock 17' rims and tire size, and the H&R
> > lowering springs
> > > installed (these could make things really complicated, I fear).
> > > 
> > > I know I'll get at least a few responses telling me just
> > not to drive in the
> > > snow, but this is my daily driver, so I'll have to find a
> > way to make it
> > > work.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > - Brian
> > ---
> > Geoff Mohler

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:54:30 -0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S: Apexi AVCR question

I have my AVCR set to 1.00 kg/cm^2 across all RPM bands and all other
settings appear to be set correctly.  I occasionally see the AVCR max boost
up to 1.10 kg/cm^2 which worries me about overboosting as I am still on a
stock fuel setup.  I have the RPM wire hooked into the setup from the ECU so
it should be learning my settings. 

I have 2 questions though:

1. How do I verify that the AVCR is in learn mode?

2. Why does it "overboost" to 1.10 when I have it set to 1.00 across all RPM
bands?

TIA

Dave 95VR4
The ULTIMATE 3000GT/Stealth Resource - http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:09:22 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

I plan to pilot mine right through the winter here in Pittsburgh, PA
(where we have more slush and sleet and black ice than packed down snow
like Erie, PA where I attended college).  I have the Bridgestone Blizzak
tires.  Others swear by the Pirelli snow tires (the one in Montana no
less).

If it is an occasional trip then those easy chains are nice (or whatever
brand Sears and Pep Boys sells that you drive over, snap together, and
drive away.  But chains on summer tires will most likely not be great.
Better, but not great unless they cover so much of the tread that you
won't slide much.

For $150 per tire it is so easy to get 4 snow tires.  If you get into
one accident with summer tires and have to pay your $500 deductible to
the insurance ... then that just about paid for the snow tires.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with Blizzak snow tires soon

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geddes, Brian J
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 13:03
 
All -

Does anyone have any experience with what chains do/don't work on a
VR-4?
I'd hate to have to buy traction tires just for a few days of winter
driving
and occational trips to the ski slopes out here in the great NW.  I've
got a
1994 VR-4 with stock 17' rims and tire size, and the H&R lowering
springs
installed (these could make things really complicated, I fear).
 
I know I'll get at least a few responses telling me just not to drive in
the
snow, but this is my daily driver, so I'll have to find a way to make it
work.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:17:42 -0500
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Apexi AVCR question

Hey Dave!!

I've found that AVC-R tuning is a fine science.  Often times, mine overboosts
for a fraction of a second when I tromp it at mid-rpm's.  I think it is a
function of the turbo's nature at that rpm, and the BC just can't adjust quick
enough.

Anyhow, here's how I tune AVC-R's now (I've done 4):
Set Boost to desired level
Duty to 50-70% across the board, depending on mods (I start mine at 65, see
mods)
Learn mode on for 2nd-5th gears
Gear Start Duty for 1st = 50%, +/- 0% for the rest
Be sure you have the gear ratios correct in Gear Judge

I only give the car about 20-25 WOT runs to let it tune, any more, and it will
continue turning up the boost, and overboost.

I get up to 3k in 1st gear, then shift 2nd (2k-2.5k rpm), and tromp it.  Take it
as close to 7k as you can.  Do the same for 3rd, shift low rpm from 2nd, and
wind it from 2k-7k in 3rd (highway preferred =).

In this stage, you should be watching max boost level.  If you are too high or
too low, turn down/up (respectively) the Duty Cycle (not Start Duty) to adjust.
When you are maxing out at .95 bar and you want 1.00, you are in good shape.  Go
ahead and make a bunch of runs, and mix 2k-7k runs with 4k-7k runs, ALWAYS WOT.

Once you start seeing 1.0 or real close on the max, change over to the Y
graphing mode.  Set it to plot Boost, hit Next until it is keeping all values
(the others will erase old values), and then make a few runs.

Don't forget to let the car cool every once in a while, too hot will throw off
your values too.  Even shut the car off and let the AVC-R reset, it will bring
up your learned Duty Cycles.  When you see *** in Duty Cycle at this point, you
know it is learning.

After you make a few runs, note which rpm ranges are low or high in boost and
adjust them in the specific rpm ranges for Duty Cycle.  Once you get a solid 1.0
bar from 2.5k-5.5k, and are falling off slowly to redline, YOU ARE SET.  Turn
off learn mode and be happy. =)

Any other Q's, feel free!

Ken

- --
Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White Stealth RT/TT
3Si Rochester (NY)
FIPK, HKS Dual Exhaust
AVC-R (1.2bar), Triad Alky Injection
Improved Precats
HKS SSBOV
Cusco Rear Strut Bar, Konig Flight 17"
6 speed conversion, RPS Stage II
Aiwa MP3 Stereo
007KEN spark plug plate, license plates
ASC sunroof, white Ram emblem

Best (pathetic) time:
13.5 @ 104mph (1.2 bar w/ poorly tuned alky)

"Black, Dave (ICT)" wrote:

> I have my AVCR set to 1.00 kg/cm^2 across all RPM bands and all other
> settings appear to be set correctly.  I occasionally see the AVCR max boost
> up to 1.10 kg/cm^2 which worries me about overboosting as I am still on a
> stock fuel setup.  I have the RPM wire hooked into the setup from the ECU so
> it should be learning my settings.
>
> I have 2 questions though:
>
> 1. How do I verify that the AVCR is in learn mode?
>
> 2. Why does it "overboost" to 1.10 when I have it set to 1.00 across all RPM
> bands?
>
> TIA
>
> Dave 95VR4
> The ULTIMATE 3000GT/Stealth Resource - http://www.daveblack.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:56:22 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

My advice is to buy a winter rat for driving in inclement weather. I have a
92 Eagle Talon TSi for this purpose. It cost me $2,000 and the insurance
company thinks it is my daily driver (well, it is, when it rains or snows).
Your insurance costs will plummet when you designate the VR4 as a weekend car.

As for chains...boy, I'd hate to see what would happen if it flung a chain
right into the intercooler, or wrapped one around a front halfshaft.

Rich/slow old poop

At 10:02 AM 11/28/01 -0800, Geddes, Brian J wrote:
>All -
>
>Does anyone have any experience with what chains do/don't work on a VR-4?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:00:18 -0500
From: Joe Kenwabikise <jdk88888@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: more transmission woes...

I just took my car out for spin, since I haven't driven it in while
(~week), and everything was all fine and stuff until I got back home.
Now for a little background on some problems I've had lately.  The
clutch is about to say it's final goodbye, and is slipping a lot in 3rd
and higher.  I have the famous 2nd gear synchro problem.  Finally, the
hydraulic system for the clutch is leaking, but only when the clutch
pedal is depressed and held.  This has caused some headaches, so that's
getting fixed soon.  Anyway, the problem that happened tonight was kinda
odd.  I was parking the car, and when I let the clutch out to back up,
there was a little grinding noise, like metal shearing, but it stopped
after the clutch was fully engaged.  It happened again in 1st, and
reverse, and I can get it to happen pretty much everytime.  It's like at
the end of letting off the clutch, the bad sound, and then it's fine.
Any ideas? 

Sorry for the length, but TIA!

Joe
91 RT/TT black

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #686
***************************************