Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, November 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 680

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:30:21 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:Car Options

David -- Congrats on getting one of these cars. Enjoy.

Keyless entry FOBs are obtainable from the dealer for about $50. They
will then charge a programming fee of about $50. Sometimes you can buy
the FOBs from eBay or other people for $25 or so (if they sold their car
then it is of no use to them) and you can program it yourself. See Jeff
Lucius' page where he has pix of the back seat removed and where the ABS
computer brain is to the left of the back left passenger seat -- it's a
bear if you are not already taking your interior apart so that might be
worth having the dealer perform).

I bought my car and it had one FOB but I bought another one from a
friend and now have two. You can have at most two different FOBs as
there is only a "1" and a "2" setting and then the "Set" mode that it
sits in after that. I don't know if two FOBs can have the same setting
as the number "1" setting.

If you need more help just email me and I'll guide you through it.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 w/dual keyless entry FOBs

- -----Original Message-----
From: David Allison
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 19:28

The information I got from your web site (daveblack.net) indicates that
the 94 base came with keyless entry. When I bought my car (about two
weeks ago) I don't remember any mention of keyless entry by the seller,
and I obviously don't have the keychain control pad that goes with it.
Does anyone know if the information on edmunds, where the information is

gained from, is correct or I am out of luck in the department. It really

would be nice to have keyless entry. On that note, if the 94 base model
does not come with keyless entry, how much would a system like that cost

to install?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:41:11 -0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Headlight "Covers"

I've seen some plastic covers on the market that claim to protect headlight
lenses from rock damage. Anybody use any of these, have any comments on
their effectiveness?

Dennis

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Allison" <daedel@mac.com>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:Car Options

[snip]
> A few more things to note. I remember some discussion a few weeks back
> of replacing the glass of the headlight unit? I believe the problem was
> that it was a sealed unit and the whole thing had to be replaced for
> about 500 dollars. Mitsu quoted me $104 to replace the glass on the
> front of my headlights which are cracked from rocks (plastic part
> carried only now). So I don't believe the whole unit really needs to be
> replaced.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:50:07 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Headlight "Covers"

You can also buy some commercial 3M clear cover (in different
thicknesses but 3 mil, 5 mil, 10 mil, etc. are the sizes). Cut to
shape, peel off the backing, adhere. Presto. I have seen this on the
first 8 inches of a hood so it is a transparent cover.

Some stores sell it at high prices but it can also be found in other
hobby shops.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with a LeBra for $120 that has saved my bumper from a certain
$400 paint job

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis and Anita Moore
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 21:41

I've seen some plastic covers on the market that claim to protect
headlight
lenses from rock damage. Anybody use any of these, have any comments on
their effectiveness?

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:12:22 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OBDII revisited

1994 and 1995 cars with two 02 sensors are hybrid OBDII cars. The
diagnostic port is obdii, but the programming is mostly the same as first
gen. If you have 4 o2 sensors, you are full OBDII. I have a 1995 built in
95 and data loggers don't work for it and even in the manuals, you can see
that 94 and 95 cars have some different references in the electrical
diagrams and pin-outs

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg <dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: Team3S@team3s.com <Team3S@team3s.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: Team3S: OBDII revisited

>I think this may win the award for one of the top 10 threads in the
>archives. However, a friend told me that the 1995 VR-4 may or may not
>have OBDII "stuff." I will go check the under hood sticker tomorrow and
>look for the "OBDI compliant" phrase or whatever it has.
>
>Is there any clear-cut date when these systems were switched over? I
>have what appears to be a 1995-1/2 VR-4 since it has the power sunroof
>and no ECS but the doorjamb sticker reads "Mfg 11/1994." Just wondering
>if people have a nice compact list of when in the year the OBDI was
>changed to the OBDII or if it is different for Stealth and 3000GT or
>Spyder (US models are most interesting to me).
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4 (mfg in 11/1994)

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:20:19 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OBDII revisited

> If you have 4 o2 sensors, you are full OBDII.

That's not true - even cars with 4 O2 sensors are not OBD-II in '94 and '95.
If it has 4 O2 sensors it just means it has CA emissions (at least in
'94-95), not that it has OBD-II.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:52:03 +0700
From: "CV. Duta Karya Teknik" <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
Subject: Team3S: NEED ADVICE

Hi Guys,

When I attended Automotive Show and I found one participant and he informed
me one of the products it's called PILL from Firepower Australia can
increase octane and performance of engine.
One PILL can mix 60 ltr into fuel tank and the price is USD 5.00 for 10 pcs
PILL but I worry about this PILL because I have no experience and do not
want my engine will have a problem.
If anybody knows about this PILL and has experience to use it, please let me
know.
Their website is www.tpsfirepower.com and click to the product.
Your kindly information is very helpful and thank you very much.

Kindly regards,
Jane

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:08:31 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:Car Options

If I recall your orginal post, it said the "FOG LIGHT" glass was
cracked, rather than the headlight unit. Mitsu will only sell the complete
FOGLIGHT units. What you are saying is interesting, since with the 2nd gen
'94 there is a glass piece on top of the headlight unit, but later years
have plastic, which Mitsu is telling you they stock. There are numerous old
posts about how you go about removing the glass and potential replacement
with Lexan.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Allison [SMTP:daedel@mac.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:28 PM
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:Car Options
>
> A few more things to note. I remember some discussion a few weeks back
> of replacing the glass of the headlight unit? I believe the problem was
> that it was a sealed unit and the whole thing had to be replaced for
> about 500 dollars. Mitsu quoted me $104 to replace the glass on the
> front of my headlights which are cracked from rocks (plastic part
> carried only now). So I don't believe the whole unit really needs to be
> replaced.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:44:33 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that the MKIV
rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the opposite of the
way most people think they should.

http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg    bottom of this
page.

We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about 50% less
service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing them
according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on the track
and street.

This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the opposite of
what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone wanna give
it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the lady, If I get
no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Christian [SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:47 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; Team 3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
>
> I guess I should check my boots, but maybe the extra
> cooling from the Supra rotors save the boots.
>
> Be of good cheer,
> John
>
> --- "Willis, Charles E."
> <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org> wrote:
> > my dust boots seem to get cooked in
> > short order (even the ones on the calipers without
> > powder coating, Geoff!).
> > If I was only driving the car on the track, I might
> > consider leaving them
> > off, but our streets still have lots of mud puddles.
> >
> > Chuck Willis
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bdtrent [SMTP:bdtrent@netzero.net]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 3:46 PM
> > > To: Team 3S
> > > Subject: Re: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > >
> > > I was told by a Brembo app. engineer that dust
> > seals can't hold up to
> > > track
> > > use over a long period of time. He suggested
> > either removing them as race
> > > preped systems do and live with the accelerated
> > piston wear from
> > > contaminents, or plan on replacing them as needed.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > DaveT/92TT
>
> Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
> '93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
> 12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
> http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:58:49 -0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:Car Options

Hi David,

Most of the specification info and all of the Edmunds.com rating info on my
website (http://www.daveblack.net) was obtained and displayed, with express
Permission, from Edmunds.com.

Dave 95 VR4
The ULTIMATE 3000GT/Stealth Resource - http://www.daveblack.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Allison [SMTP:daedel@mac.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:28 PM
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:Car Options
>
> This is somewhat of a multithreaded email so reply as needed.
>
> The information I got from your web site (daveblack.net) indicates that
> the 94 base came with keyless entry. When I bought my car (about two
> weeks ago) I don't remember any mention of keyless entry by the seller,
> and I obviously don't have the keychain control pad that goes with it.
> Does anyone know if the information on edmunds, where the information is
> gained from, is correct or I am out of luck in the department. It really
> would be nice to have keyless entry. On that note, if the 94 base model
> does not come with keyless entry, how much would a system like that cost
> to install?
>
> A few more things to note. I remember some discussion a few weeks back
> of replacing the glass of the headlight unit? I believe the problem was
> that it was a sealed unit and the whole thing had to be replaced for
> about 500 dollars. Mitsu quoted me $104 to replace the glass on the
> front of my headlights which are cracked from rocks (plastic part
> carried only now). So I don't believe the whole unit really needs to be
> replaced.
>
> Thats about all, but before I send this off I would like to thank all of
> you on the help you offered on my decision to purchase the car. It needs
> some work but I think it will work out great.
>
> David
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
> > Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 05:33:11 PM US/Central
> > To: "'AMastrangelo@giwindustries.com'" <AMastrangelo@giwindustries.com>
> > Cc: "Team3s (E-mail)" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:Car Options
> >
> > Yes. I have a listing of most specs for all models and all model years
> > on
> > my Specifications page at http://www.daveblack.net
> >
> > Dave 95 VR4
> > The ULTIMATE 3000GT/Stealth Resource - http://www.daveblack.net

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:29:58 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: NEED ADVICE

All I saw at the site was marketing hype --- no technical information or independent
testing at all. All kinds of automotive products make outrageous claims to improve
your cars performance --- very few actually work.

The oil companies and auto manufacturers spend billions of dollars to improve the
reliability and efficiency of their products --- a very small edge is worth more
billions in increased revenue. Some of these oil additives are an example, if their
claims of improved mileage and drivability and reduced wear were true then the
manufacturers would gladly add them to the car and recommend you use them on
a regular basis.

If the effectiveness of fuel could be improved that much for a few cents per gallon
the oil companies would be standing in line to own the product [ and no not so they
could hide the formula --- that theory is BS ]. Years ago I worked in the Union Oil
research center and they actual tested many of those products just to see if their
was any validity to their claims --- just in case they might find a diamond in the pile
of marketing BS. They never, did but we had a few laughs.

Stay away from small companies that make outrageous claims for their product, if
it's real, it will surface in the real world.

        Jim Berry
=========================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: CV. Duta Karya Teknik <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
To: <Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:52 AM
Subject: Team3S: NEED ADVICE

> Hi Guys,
>
> When I attended Automotive Show and I found one participant and he informed
> me one of the products it's called PILL from Firepower Australia can
> increase octane and performance of engine.
> One PILL can mix 60 ltr into fuel tank and the price is USD 5.00 for 10 pcs
> PILL but I worry about this PILL because I have no experience and do not
> want my engine will have a problem.
> If anybody knows about this PILL and has experience to use it, please let me
> know.
> Their website is www.tpsfirepower.com and click to the product.
> Your kindly information is very helpful and thank you very much.
>
> Kindly regards,
> Jane

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:34:20 -0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:Car Options

If your car has an electronic lock/unlock switch in the inside, most
aftermarket car alarms will provide that functionality for you. If you don't
have electronic locks there are other options that make use of "solenoids" I
believe. I would first check if your doesn't already have a wireless remote
though.

Here's my theory on checking based on owning 3 Chrysler products: '95 Talon
(no keyless entry, no factory alarm), '96 Avenger (keyless entry, factory
alarm), and a '94 Stealth (keyless entry, factory alarm). After you shut
off your car, open the door and press the lock button, now shut the door.
If a "Security" light turns on in the instrument cluster that means you have
a factory alarm. This also means your car probably came originally with
keyless entry

So is there anybody out there that has a factory alarm and no keyless entry
to disprove this theory?

Later,
Christopher

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Allison [SMTP:daedel@mac.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:28 PM
> > To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:Car Options
> >
> > On that note, if the 94 base model
> > does not come with keyless entry, how much would a system like that cost
> > to install?
> >
> > David

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:41:43 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OBDII revisited

Ugh! You guys got my hopes up for a second - I was ready to run out and buy
PocketLogger right away. Guess I'll just have to wait for the hybrid
version. :(

- - Brian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt [mailto:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:20 PM
> To: 'Sam Shelat'; Team3S@team3s.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: OBDII revisited
>
>
> > If you have 4 o2 sensors, you are full OBDII.
>
> That's not true - even cars with 4 O2 sensors are not OBD-II
> in '94 and '95.
> If it has 4 O2 sensors it just means it has CA emissions (at least in
> '94-95), not that it has OBD-II.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:06:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

Carefull there.

Thats -not- a normal directional vane rotor. The vanes are not equal
length, and they have to turn the "wrong" way to use a vacum to push more
air thru them.

If each vane was equal length inside the rotor..then yes, they would be
backwards.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:

> Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that the MKIV
> rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the opposite of the
> way most people think they should.
>
> http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg    bottom of this
> page.
>
> We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about 50% less
> service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing them
> according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on the track
> and street.
>
>
> This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the opposite of
> what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone wanna give
> it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the lady, If I get
> no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Christian [SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:47 PM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.; Team 3S
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> >
> > I guess I should check my boots, but maybe the extra
> > cooling from the Supra rotors save the boots.
> >
> > Be of good cheer,
> > John
> >
> > --- "Willis, Charles E."
> > <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org> wrote:
> > > my dust boots seem to get cooked in
> > > short order (even the ones on the calipers without
> > > powder coating, Geoff!).
> > > If I was only driving the car on the track, I might
> > > consider leaving them
> > > off, but our streets still have lots of mud puddles.
> > >
> > > Chuck Willis
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: bdtrent [SMTP:bdtrent@netzero.net]
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 3:46 PM
> > > > To: Team 3S
> > > > Subject: Re: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > > >
> > > > I was told by a Brembo app. engineer that dust
> > > seals can't hold up to
> > > > track
> > > > use over a long period of time. He suggested
> > > either removing them as race
> > > > preped systems do and live with the accelerated
> > > piston wear from
> > > > contaminents, or plan on replacing them as needed.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > DaveT/92TT
> >
> > =====
> > Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
> > '93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
> > 12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
> > http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:53:46 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In theory
you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat which
cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would like to
hear why it wouldn't.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:06 PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Cc: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
>
> Carefull there.
>
> Thats -not- a normal directional vane rotor. The vanes are not equal
> length, and they have to turn the "wrong" way to use a vacum to push more
> air thru them.
>
> If each vane was equal length inside the rotor..then yes, they would be
> backwards.
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
> > Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that the
> MKIV
> > rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the opposite of
> the
> > way most people think they should.
> >
> > http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg    bottom of
> this
> > page.
> >
> > We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about 50% less
> > service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing them
> > according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on the
> track
> > and street.
> >
> >
> > This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the opposite
> of
> > what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone wanna
> give
> > it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the lady, If I
> get
> > no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Christian [SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:47 PM
> > > To: Willis, Charles E.; Team 3S
> > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > >
> > > I guess I should check my boots, but maybe the extra
> > > cooling from the Supra rotors save the boots.
> > >
> > > Be of good cheer,
> > > John

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:31:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

Im lost now..umm..in the supra diagram, the vanes are staggered length on
the inside, so they have to turn "backwards" to work right.

If the vanes were not staggered, you would want then to turn the other
way.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:

> I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In theory
> you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat which
> cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would like to
> hear why it wouldn't.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:06 PM
> > To: Furman, Russell
> > Cc: 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> >
> > Carefull there.
> >
> > Thats -not- a normal directional vane rotor. The vanes are not equal
> > length, and they have to turn the "wrong" way to use a vacum to push more
> > air thru them.
> >
> > If each vane was equal length inside the rotor..then yes, they would be
> > backwards.
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that the
> > MKIV
> > > rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the opposite of
> > the
> > > way most people think they should.
> > >
> > > http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg    bottom of
> > this
> > > page.
> > >
> > > We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about 50% less
> > > service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing them
> > > according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on the
> > track
> > > and street.
> > >
> > >
> > > This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the opposite
> > of
> > > what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone wanna
> > give
> > > it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the lady, If I
> > get
> > > no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John Christian [SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:47 PM
> > > > To: Willis, Charles E.; Team 3S
> > > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > > >
> > > > I guess I should check my boots, but maybe the extra
> > > > cooling from the Supra rotors save the boots.
> > > >
> > > > Be of good cheer,
> > > > John

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:19:23 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

I always thought the idea of curved vanes was the centrifugal force
slings the air outward and cools the brakes or whatever they happen to
hit. If you install them backwards then they supposedly sling air
toward the inside which does not do such a good job.

I did not know there was a difference if the vanes were of different
lengths. My stock '95 VR-4 rotors are straight vanes so they can be
mounted in either direction. A friend's Supra rotors are directional
and of different length but I don't think people make a directional and
equal length vane rotor for us to test with.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4, stock Porterfield rotors

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:32
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

Im lost now..umm..in the supra diagram, the vanes are staggered length
on
the inside, so they have to turn "backwards" to work right.

If the vanes were not staggered, you would want then to turn the other
way.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:

> I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In
theory
> you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat
which
> cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would
like to
> hear why it wouldn't.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:38:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

I do. Its the 2pc rotor.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Darren Schilberg wrote:

> I always thought the idea of curved vanes was the centrifugal force
> slings the air outward and cools the brakes or whatever they happen to
> hit. If you install them backwards then they supposedly sling air
> toward the inside which does not do such a good job.
>
> I did not know there was a difference if the vanes were of different
> lengths. My stock '95 VR-4 rotors are straight vanes so they can be
> mounted in either direction. A friend's Supra rotors are directional
> and of different length but I don't think people make a directional and
> equal length vane rotor for us to test with.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4, stock Porterfield rotors
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:32
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
>
> Im lost now..umm..in the supra diagram, the vanes are staggered length
> on
> the inside, so they have to turn "backwards" to work right.
>
> If the vanes were not staggered, you would want then to turn the other
> way.
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
> > I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In
> theory
> > you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat
> which
> > cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would
> like to
> > hear why it wouldn't.

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:23:43 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

Geoff, I know that is the accepted school of thought. I want to know why
"regular" slotted rotors have to turn the way they do.   Over analysis leads
to one of two things..... A headache or a new idea.... I already have the
headache now, I want too see if there is a new Idea behind the headache :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:32 PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Cc: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
>
> Im lost now..umm..in the supra diagram, the vanes are staggered length on
> the inside, so they have to turn "backwards" to work right.
>
> If the vanes were not staggered, you would want then to turn the other
> way.
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
> > I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In
> theory
> > you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat which
> > cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would like
> to
> > hear why it wouldn't.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:06 PM
> > > To: Furman, Russell
> > > Cc: 'Team 3S'
> > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > >
> > > Carefull there.
> > >
> > > Thats -not- a normal directional vane rotor. The vanes are not equal
> > > length, and they have to turn the "wrong" way to use a vacum to push
> more
> > > air thru them.
> > >
> > > If each vane was equal length inside the rotor..then yes, they would
> be
> > > backwards.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
> > >
> > > > Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that the
> > > MKIV
> > > > rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the
> opposite of
> > > the
> > > > way most people think they should.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg    bottom of
> > > this
> > > > page.
> > > >
> > > > We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about 50%
> less
> > > > service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing them
> > > > according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on the
> > > track
> > > > and street.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the
> opposite
> > > of
> > > > what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone
> wanna
> > > give
> > > > it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the lady, If
> I
> > > get
> > > > no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:52:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

This is where im lost.

"regular" is being defined as what? The slots, or the vanes?

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:

> Geoff, I know that is the accepted school of thought. I want to know why
> "regular" slotted rotors have to turn the way they do.   Over analysis leads
> to one of two things..... A headache or a new idea.... I already have the
> headache now, I want too see if there is a new Idea behind the headache :)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:32 PM
> > To: Furman, Russell
> > Cc: 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> >
> > Im lost now..umm..in the supra diagram, the vanes are staggered length on
> > the inside, so they have to turn "backwards" to work right.
> >
> > If the vanes were not staggered, you would want then to turn the other
> > way.
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
> >
> > > I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In
> > theory
> > > you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat which
> > > cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would like
> > to
> > > hear why it wouldn't.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:06 PM
> > > > To: Furman, Russell
> > > > Cc: 'Team 3S'
> > > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > > >
> > > > Carefull there.
> > > >
> > > > Thats -not- a normal directional vane rotor. The vanes are not equal
> > > > length, and they have to turn the "wrong" way to use a vacum to push
> > more
> > > > air thru them.
> > > >
> > > > If each vane was equal length inside the rotor..then yes, they would
> > be
> > > > backwards.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that the
> > > > MKIV
> > > > > rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the
> > opposite of
> > > > the
> > > > > way most people think they should.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg    bottom of
> > > > this
> > > > > page.
> > > > >
> > > > > We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about 50%
> > less
> > > > > service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing them
> > > > > according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on the
> > > > track
> > > > > and street.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the
> > opposite
> > > > of
> > > > > what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone
> > wanna
> > > > give
> > > > > it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the lady, If
> > I
> > > > get
> > > > > no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:36:26 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes

The slotted are regular in my discussion..... Sorry Geoff I am terrible at
explaining myself.    The first time I ever saw rotors with "vanes" in them
was on my MKIV.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:52 PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Cc: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
>
> This is where im lost.
>
> "regular" is being defined as what? The slots, or the vanes?
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
> > Geoff, I know that is the accepted school of thought. I want to know
> why
> > "regular" slotted rotors have to turn the way they do.   Over analysis
> leads
> > to one of two things..... A headache or a new idea.... I already have
> the
> > headache now, I want too see if there is a new Idea behind the headache
> :)
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:32 PM
> > > To: Furman, Russell
> > > Cc: 'Team 3S'
> > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > >
> > > Im lost now..umm..in the supra diagram, the vanes are staggered length
> on
> > > the inside, so they have to turn "backwards" to work right.
> > >
> > > If the vanes were not staggered, you would want then to turn the other
> > > way.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know they are not equal length but why would my idea not work? In
> > > theory
> > > > you would be moving the "cooler" air charge towards the rotor hat
> which
> > > > cools the slowest.....   I want to say this would work but I would
> like
> > > to
> > > > hear why it wouldn't.
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:06 PM
> > > > > To: Furman, Russell
> > > > > Cc: 'Team 3S'
> > > > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilding Porsche brakes
> > > > >
> > > > > Carefull there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thats -not- a normal directional vane rotor. The vanes are not
> equal
> > > > > length, and they have to turn the "wrong" way to use a vacum to
> push
> > > more
> > > > > air thru them.
> > > > >
> > > > > If each vane was equal length inside the rotor..then yes, they
> would
> > > be
> > > > > backwards.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Speaking of extra cooling on the rotors, you guys/gals know that
> the
> > > > > MKIV
> > > > > > rotors have vanes in them and they are installed to spin the
> > > opposite of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > way most people think they should.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf168.jpg
> bottom of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > page.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We had a lister try out switching them around and he got about
> 50%
> > > less
> > > > > > service life (track duty) before warping compared to installing
> them
> > > > > > according to the repair manual. He uses cryoed stock rotors on
> the
> > > > > track
> > > > > > and street.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This leads me to think that cryoed slotted rotors turning the
> > > opposite
> > > > > of
> > > > > > what we normally install them would possibly last longer anyone
> > > wanna
> > > > > give
> > > > > > it a go? I would but I just put cryoed stock rotors on the
> lady, If
> > > I
> > > > > get
> > > > > > no volunteers I will test it out myself in the spring.

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:44:41 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Forced air to rotors

Rich, do you remember where you got the blowers from?   I know senility is
starting to set in at you distinguished age ;)
This sounds like it should work and would be great for the Appalachian
runs planned for this summer.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:35 PM
> To: Furman, Russell; 'Geoff Mohler'
> Cc: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Forced air to rotors
>
> Suppose we were to fab up a dust shield that had a 1.5 or 2 in. dia. air
> duct connection welded in, and then hooked up a NASCAR truck brake blower
> to it? Do you suppose air being forced into the center of the rotor would
> cool better than a system without a dust shield?
>
> I used to have two of those NASCAR blowers, but they escaped somewhere. I
> keep hoping I'll find them someday in my garage. They are about the size
> of a fat flashlight. I saw them installed on a NASCAR truck at a trade
> show, so they must work.
>
> The problem I had was figuring out where to mount them. I finally figgered
> I could mount them crosswise where the air dam used to be. But by the time
> I got the undertray off the front and removed the air dam apparatus, the
> blowers disappeared.
>
> Has anybody else tried installing force air blowers?
>
> Rich/slow old poop

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:51:00 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors

It CAN hurt, if your brake pads require a high minimum operating temperature
and your blowers keep the pads below that temp. That's why Hawk Blue pads
chunk so bad when you use them on the street - you can't maintain the
minimum operating temperature.

Chuck Willis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:01 PM
> To: Merritt
> Cc: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors
>
> Sure they'll help..if overheating is an issue..no probs.
>
> Catn hurt.
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Merritt wrote:
>
> > Suppose we were to fab up a dust shield that had a 1.5 or 2 in. dia. air
> > duct connection welded in, and then hooked up a NASCAR truck brake
> blower
> > to it? Do you suppose air being forced into the center of the rotor
> > would cool better than a system without a dust shield?
> >
> >
> > I used to have two of those NASCAR blowers, but they escaped somewhere.
> I
> > keep hoping I'll find them someday in my garage. They are about the size
> > of a fat flashlight. I saw them installed on a NASCAR truck at a trade
> > show, so they must work.
> >
> >
> > The problem I had was figuring out where to mount them. I finally
> > figgered I could mount them crosswise where the air dam used to be. But
> > by the time I got the undertray off the front and removed the air dam
> > apparatus, the blowers disappeared. <italic>
> >
> > </italic>
> >
> > Has anybody else tried installing force air blowers?
> >
> >
> > Rich/slow old poop
> >
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:11:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors

Thats a pad choice issue then, but you are right..it -can- hurt.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> It CAN hurt, if your brake pads require a high minimum operating temperature
> and your blowers keep the pads below that temp. That's why Hawk Blue pads
> chunk so bad when you use them on the street - you can't maintain the
> minimum operating temperature.
>
> Chuck Willis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:01 PM
> > To: Merritt
> > Cc: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors
> >
> > Sure they'll help..if overheating is an issue..no probs.
> >
> > Catn hurt.
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Merritt wrote:
> >
> > > Suppose we were to fab up a dust shield that had a 1.5 or 2 in. dia. air
> > > duct connection welded in, and then hooked up a NASCAR truck brake
> > blower
> > > to it? Do you suppose air being forced into the center of the rotor
> > > would cool better than a system without a dust shield?
> > >
> > >
> > > I used to have two of those NASCAR blowers, but they escaped somewhere.
> > I
> > > keep hoping I'll find them someday in my garage. They are about the size
> > > of a fat flashlight. I saw them installed on a NASCAR truck at a trade
> > > show, so they must work.
> > >
> > >
> > > The problem I had was figuring out where to mount them. I finally
> > > figgered I could mount them crosswise where the air dam used to be. But
> > > by the time I got the undertray off the front and removed the air dam
> > > apparatus, the blowers disappeared. <italic>
> > >
> > > </italic>
> > >
> > > Has anybody else tried installing force air blowers?
> > >
> > >
> > > Rich/slow old poop
> >
> > ---
> > Geoff Mohler

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:53:53 -0800
From: "Watkins, Jim" <jim.watkins@imedia.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors

Maybe Rich should add a speed control on the blowers and crank it up after a
lap or two...

Jim Watkins

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:51 AM
To: 'Geoff Mohler'; Merritt
Cc: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors

It CAN hurt, if your brake pads require a high minimum operating temperature
and your blowers keep the pads below that temp. That's why Hawk Blue pads
chunk so bad when you use them on the street - you can't maintain the
minimum operating temperature.

Chuck Willis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:01 PM
> To: Merritt
> Cc: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors
>
> Sure they'll help..if overheating is an issue..no probs.
>
> Catn hurt.
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Merritt wrote:
>
> > Suppose we were to fab up a dust shield that had a 1.5 or 2 in. dia. air
> > duct connection welded in, and then hooked up a NASCAR truck brake
> blower
> > to it? Do you suppose air being forced into the center of the rotor
> > would cool better than a system without a dust shield?
> >
> >
> > I used to have two of those NASCAR blowers, but they escaped somewhere.
> I
> > keep hoping I'll find them someday in my garage. They are about the size
> > of a fat flashlight. I saw them installed on a NASCAR truck at a trade
> > show, so they must work.
> >
> >
> > The problem I had was figuring out where to mount them. I finally
> > figgered I could mount them crosswise where the air dam used to be. But
> > by the time I got the undertray off the front and removed the air dam
> > apparatus, the blowers disappeared. <italic>
> >
> > </italic>
> >
> > Has anybody else tried installing force air blowers?
> >
> >
> > Rich/slow old poop
> >
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:55:11 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors

Or put them on a temperature switch so they do not come on below the minimum
pad operating temp......

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Watkins, Jim [SMTP:jim.watkins@imedia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:54 PM
> To: Team3S (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors
>
> Maybe Rich should add a speed control on the blowers and crank it up after
> a
> lap or two...
>
> Jim Watkins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:51 AM
> To: 'Geoff Mohler'; Merritt
> Cc: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors
>
>
> It CAN hurt, if your brake pads require a high minimum operating
> temperature
> and your blowers keep the pads below that temp. That's why Hawk Blue pads
> chunk so bad when you use them on the street - you can't maintain the
> minimum operating temperature.
>
> Chuck Willis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:01 PM
> > To: Merritt
> > Cc: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: Team3S: Re: Forced air to rotors
> >
> > Sure they'll help..if overheating is an issue..no probs.
> >
> > Catn hurt.
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Merritt wrote:
> >
> > > Suppose we were to fab up a dust shield that had a 1.5 or 2 in. dia.
> air
> > > duct connection welded in, and then hooked up a NASCAR truck brake
> > blower
> > > to it? Do you suppose air being forced into the center of the rotor
> > > would cool better than a system without a dust shield?
> > >
> > >
> > > I used to have two of those NASCAR blowers, but they escaped
> somewhere.
> > I
> > > keep hoping I'll find them someday in my garage. They are about the
> size
> > > of a fat flashlight. I saw them installed on a NASCAR truck at a trade
> > > show, so they must work.
> > >
> > >
> > > The problem I had was figuring out where to mount them. I finally
> > > figgered I could mount them crosswise where the air dam used to be.
> But
> > > by the time I got the undertray off the front and removed the air dam
> > > apparatus, the blowers disappeared. <italic>
> > >
> > > </italic>
> > >
> > > Has anybody else tried installing force air blowers?
> > >
> > >
> > > Rich/slow old poop
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:42:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Any takers..initial offering.

One very stripped and lightweight 95 black VR4 chassis. Approx 1200lbs
lighter.

Other than non-essential steel, it is complete on the bottom end, still
has main glass and doors.

Block is bored and ready for build. Needs crank, and whatever custom
pistons/rods you want.
Heads are shaved, and ready for work
Other parts of the long block are complete as well..just in boxes.

Comes with $1800 Tilton 2-stage racing clutch/flywheel combination..weighs
13lbs complete.
Comes with big-red upgrade, 600 miles on them W/new cryo rotors.
Comes with 1000Hp fuel pump
Motor mounts are converted to solid
Comes with a good 6spd tranny with 7k on it.
Comes with complete unboxed Alamo IC and plumbing kit..the large one.
Comes with seat rails to fot Sparco seats..no seats included.

Asking $6k.

We -may- finish it some day, but for $6k someone else can.

It only really needs the motor rebuilt, or a stocker tossed in, cage, and
seats...at only 3000lbs or so..it would just _scream_ with only a minor
turbo upgrade.

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:25:00 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: WARNING - Dangerous FILE!!!

To All:

DO NOT OPEN any email from Oleg (Latvia). His email system is corrupted and
spitting out infected messages. Geoff already tried to warn the list, but
we filter out the word "VIR*S" to prevent warnings being sent to the list -
154 at last count.

PLEASE be careful and delete his emails and check your computer ASAP!!!

Identified variously, including:

W32/Aliz@MM trojan
TROJ_ALIZ.A v*rus

Careful...,

Forrest

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:42:25 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Forced air to rotors, marine bilge blower

Earlier post on marine/bilge blower fans for brake cooling or intake ram air.
For brake cooling, just mount it to the strut, then run 3in or 4in tubing to the brake center.
either with dust coverrs still in place or without. There is already a 1.5in hole in my dust covers, I was just going to expand that. The marine blowers are strong, lite, and only about 3-5 amp draw. Should give 3-4 times the air that ram air would.

Kurt

Hey you Guys,
>
> I was going to order a bilge blower to test on one of your TTs. In particular Jim's if he would agree.
> However, I forgot to order it till today, and could not find one locally.
> This could also work as a brake cooler fan, providing about 3-4 times the flow a ram air could.
>
> If any of you are close to a Marine or Boating supply store, maybe you could check if they have one.
> I will buy it from you if you do not want to keep it. Just make sure it's about $25 or less, they are $20-$24 from online dealers.
>
> Need the 4in Inline bilge / duct fan. Check 'bilge blower' via outdoor world for info. Basically they look like a 4in PVC pipe with a motor. I have one plummbed in my NA, but it's not that easy to remove for testing.
>
> Everyone is saying that these would do no good for the TT, but I think the story will turn out different.
> They only do 240cfm, but that is rated at 0-1 psi. In atmospheric to turbo intake vacuum, they will flow much more, and really will never hamper flow..trust me.
>
> This should help to eliminate turbo lag(we have seen the foolish things turbo lag makes some people do!) and it will also help to improve the boost at high rpm where I have seen notes about about stock turbo's lacking. I am thinking it will improve your track time 1 to 2 seconds. And for testing, we can rig it to just run all the time, as its only 4 amps.
>
> Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Furman, Russell [mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:45 AM
To: 'Merritt'
Cc: 'Team 3S'
Subject: Team3S: RE: Forced air to rotors

Rich, do you remember where you got the blowers from?   I know senility is
starting to set in at you distinguished age ;)
This sounds like it should work and would be great for the Appalachian
runs planned for this summer.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:35 PM
> To: Furman, Russell; 'Geoff Mohler'
> Cc: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Forced air to rotors
>
> Suppose we were to fab up a dust shield that had a 1.5 or 2 in. dia. air
> duct connection welded in, and then hooked up a NASCAR truck brake blower
> to it? Do you suppose air being forced into the center of the rotor would
> cool better than a system without a dust shield?
>
> I used to have two of those NASCAR blowers, but they escaped somewhere. I
> keep hoping I'll find them someday in my garage. They are about the size
> of a fat flashlight. I saw them installed on a NASCAR truck at a trade
> show, so they must work.
>
> The problem I had was figuring out where to mount them. I finally figgered
> I could mount them crosswise where the air dam used to be. But by the time
> I got the undertray off the front and removed the air dam apparatus, the
> blowers disappeared.
>
> Has anybody else tried installing force air blowers?
>
> Rich/slow old poop

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:04:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Forced air to rotors, marine bilge blower

How large is this bilge lower?

- ---
Geoff Mohler

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:57:22 -0500
From: AMastrangelo@giwindustries.com
Subject: Team3S: RE:Throttle body cleaning

What is the best way to clean the throttle body?

Thanks,

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:48:55 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <apedenko@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Mechanics and the like...

Hi all,

    After a long battle with the warranty company, I got them to pay for a
tranny rebuild. I took it to Roadmasters Transmissions in Schaumburg, IL
where it was torn open, and they put in an RPS stage II for me. Here's my
problem - before they tore it open, I was having what I thought to be
synchro problems. It was hard to get the car into first if it was moving,
and half the time I couldn't get it into reverse at all w/o moving the car
an inch or so. Also the shifter always popped forward about half-way
whenever I shifted into 6th. They tore it open, told me that the clutch I
had in there (I'm assuming it was factory, @60K) was shot and that was
causing all of my problems. They also told me that the main bearing on my
rear drive shaft was gone, and they replaced that (well, not the bearing,
but the entire assy). After they put it back together I have the following
problems. It feels like (I can't actually hear it most of the time) it's
grinding when shifting into 2nd, and 3rd. It's still hard to get into 1st if
the car is moving at all. Still have the same reverse issues. The shifter
still pops forward in 6th, but now it also does that in 4th. Also the
shifter doesn't center anymore. If it's pushed away (towards 5th, 6th and R)
it comes back just fine. If it's pulled towards the driver (1st, 2nd) it
stays there.

    Could all of this be because of a loose gear shift linkage, or do I need
to resort to lawyer friends of mine?

Thanks a lot for all you input,

    Alex (w/ a '95 VR4 and non-stop tranny issues)

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:58:38 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:Throttle body cleaning

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <AMastrangelo@giwindustries.com>
> What is the best way to clean the throttle body?
> Thanks,
- ---------------------------

Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner (Chrysler P/N 04318001).

Best,

Forrest

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #680
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