Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, November 14 2001 Volume 01 :
Number
674
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:12:07 -0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Stillen Downpipe
It seems pretty simple to me. They use revised
engine software. Many of
the Japanese motors also lacked O2 sensors. O2
sensors are primarily for
reducing tailpipe emissions. Using a fixed
software table for air anf fuel
measurements may not be as environmentally
efficient as a constantly
adjusting a/f table, but the car will certainly run
fine.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jim Berry
Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 1:57 PM
To:
spargo@bigfoot.com; Team3S
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Stillen Downpipe
Andy
My question actually has to do with
the UAE spec engine --- do you have
any idea how they accomplish the feat of
running without O2 sensors. The
stock ECU requires O2 sensors to operate at
other than WOT conditions
and O2 sensors will not survive long with lead in
their diet --- any idea
how
they get the car to run without O2 sensors
?!?!?!?!?!?!
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:07:46
-0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
Top speed
Flash,
>Thanks. What general length of road
does it take to slow down from 170
mph >and how stable was the car under
the light to moderate braking?
We did not apply maximum braking
since it was not required. The run was
done at 3:00 AM, on a 4 lane
highway; therefore, traffic was clear in
the left 2-3 lanes.
The car
felt stable under moderate braking before a turn came up. We
only had
to slow down to 100 mph.
>I know on emergency stops on the autobahn
Roger G. warps normal rotors
so >he had to upgrade.
Better brakes
are deffinetly on the list. Currently my brother has
portefield
cryo/slotted rotors and KPF race pads. A ceramic pacckage
wouldn't be a
bad thing to have. They should come down in price in the
next few
years. Availability should also increase, as well as the
selection for
street use.
- -MIHAI-
95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:13:01
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: was engine knock NOW Fuel system upgrades
Uh Kurt I am going to
disagree basically b/c your example is flawed
SEVERELY. This example is
accurate, take a water pump and pressurize a
piece of garden hose (similar
idea to our fuel line) now take and violently
shake it forward and backwards
while measuring the amp and voltage draws of
the pump you will see
fluctuations up and down. Why b/c the ump is being
forced to work
harder to prevent the fluid from flowing back from its
originating point and
the only possible escape route for the pressurized
water to escape
from.
See what I am saying now?
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Zobel, Kurt [SMTP:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:51 PM
> To: Jannusch, Matt; 'Team
3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda
long)
>
> It adds up to zero!
> That is, acceleration will
take extra psi to overcome, but it is the same
> regardless of line
size.
>
> Think of it as two pipes, one 1" id, the other 2' id,
standing vertically.
> if they are both 10 feet tall, the pressure at the
bottom is y psi for
> both.
> If you now make them 20 feet
tall(acceleration effect), they still both
> have 2y psi.
>
>
And a bigger line does not require a bigger pump, only more time to
>
initially fill, then it is on equal footing and better, since the
pressure
> drop is less.
>
>
Kurt
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt
[mailto:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001
7:05 AM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have
more knock !? (kinda long)
>
> > Matt, I personally do not see
the advantage to splitting the
> > fuel line to send it
"sequentially" I think you mean equally
> > :)
>
>
You are right - I didn't explain my thinking as clearly as I could have.
>
I
> did mean I thought it would be better for parallel flow into the
rails
> than
> sequentially (theoretically).
>
> >
Anyway if you note the firing cycle of any multicyclinder gas
> >
powered ICE the injectors fire in a pattern not all at once
> > so the
injectors will not be starving for fuel never mind the
> > fact that
the plumbing and all the fittings to build your set
> > up are going to
add unnecessary bends and "POSSIBLE"
> > restrictions to fuel flow. Of
course this is all IMHO
>
> I realize they fire in a pattern and
not at the same time. But each one
> fires once every .017 seconds
at 7200 RPM (for a duration of .014 seconds
> at
> 80% duty
cycle). At 80% IDC it is also firing through a lot more of each
>
cycle (even onto closed intake valves). 60 times per second for
each
> injector (3600 events per minute), and 360 injection events per
second
> total
> counting all injectors. They are all firing
at once - or more precisely
> 80%
> of the injectors are open at a
given time at 80% IDC.
>
> > We really can not compare our cars
to like Camaros and
> > Mustangs..... We run much higher fuel
pressures than those
> > cars in on boost situations, they use bigger
lines to
> > counteract for the lower pressures found we do not need
to.
> > Also interesting bit of info under moderate-heavy
>
> acceleration the fuel pump is forced to work harder to move
> >
the fuel forward in the line the larger the line you go (its
> > early
and I can not remember the term for this)
>
> Hmmm...
Interesting point. I hadn't considered that larger lines would
>
carry more fuel mass which would make it harder to pump forward when
>
accelerating. Good point... <scratching head> I don't
think I'm smart
> enough to figure out how much that effect would add
up.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:34:39
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Propane conversion
In my quest to find the most complex way to do a job
I've
snooped around a little to see if propane conversion is a
practical
way to run our cars. Has anyone tried it or done
any research on the
possibility.
Propane is --- 104 octane, about the same price as
gasoline,
readily available, contains about the same energy content
as
gasoline [ 80% I think ], runs very clean and the converson
is
relatively simple and done regularly. I can't seem to find out if
it's
practical to use on higher horsepower applications --- I
know it's
done on light trucks, busses and medium and light
duty autos. I've never
heard af anybody racing with it, drag or
otherwise. Some states give tax
breaks for propane power.
Comments anyone ---- I like the sound of 104
octane for $1.30
per gallon.
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:40:51
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
Umm Jim, can you say small car
accident = BOOM. Trust me saw one of the
local Cop cars that runs on
propane catch fire :O It just would not stop
burning, FD had to bust
out with foam to put that thing out.....
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jim Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:35 PM
> To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
Team3S: Propane conversion
>
> Comments anyone ---- I like the
sound of 104 octane for $1.30
> per gallon.
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:47:24
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Propane conversion
Same issue as a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside
the tank and
you have a problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the
place.
Jim
berry
==============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To:
'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>;
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
<
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane
conversion
> Umm Jim, can you say small car accident =
BOOM. Trust me saw one of the
> local Cop cars that runs on propane
catch fire :O It just would not stop
> burning, FD had to bust out
with foam to put that thing out.....
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:35 PM
> > To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> > Comments anyone
---- I like the sound of 104 octane for $1.30
> > per gallon.
>
>
> > Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:47:07
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Propane conversion
I don't know about propane, but Chrysler has
been testing LNG for years.
Some of its newer cars & trucks are available
with an engine option for LNG.
Perhaps member Roger Roskam (works for
Chrysler) can point us to some of
their tech pages. I've copied
him...
Best,
F
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim
Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
> In
my quest to find the most complex way to do a job I've snooped around
a
little to see if propane conversion is a practical way to run our cars.
Has
anyone tried it or done any research on the possibility.
> Propane
is --- 104 octane, about the same price as gasoline, readily
available,
contains about the same energy content as gasoline [ 80% I
think ], runs very
clean and the converson is relatively simple and done
regularly. I can't seem
to find out if it's practical to use on higher
horsepower applications ---
I know it's done on light trucks, busses and
medium and light duty
autos. I've never heard af anybody racing with it,
drag or otherwise. Some
states give tax breaks for propane power.
> Comments anyone ---- I like
the sound of 104 octane for $1.30
> per gallon.
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:52:37
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
My only concern is that the stored fuel is
under constant pressure compared
to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is
the weight penalty to due the
requirements for the fuel cells. Last but
not least how are you going to
fill up the car? Take the tanks out
bring them to your local hardware store
and say fill er up? They sure
as hell will not let you just drive up to
their tanks and fill up.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:47
PM
> To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
>
> Same issue as a 20 gal fuel tank
---- put it outside the tank and
> you have a problem. Propane powered
vehicles are all over the place.
>
> Jim berry
>
==============================================
>
> ----- Original
Message -----
> From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>;
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
>
<
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane
conversion
>
> > Umm Jim, can you say small car accident =
BOOM. Trust me saw one of
> the
> > local Cop cars that
runs on propane catch fire :O It just would not
> stop
> >
burning, FD had to bust out with foam to put that thing out.....
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001
2:35 PM
> > > To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
> Subject: Team3S: Propane conversion
> > >
> > >
Comments anyone ---- I like the sound of 104 octane for $1.30
> > >
per gallon.
> > >
> > > Jim Berry
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:14:57
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Propane conversion
Actually, $1.56 because you
only have 80% the energy..as you said.
On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Jim Berry
wrote:
> In my quest to find the most complex way to do a job I've
> snooped around a little to see if propane conversion is a
>
practical way to run our cars. Has anyone tried it or done
> any research
on the possibility.
>
> Propane is --- 104 octane, about the same
price as gasoline,
> readily available, contains about the same energy
content as
> gasoline [ 80% I think ], runs very clean and the converson
is
> relatively simple and done regularly. I can't seem to find out
if
> it's practical to use on higher horsepower applications --- I
> know it's done on light trucks, busses and medium and light
>
duty autos. I've never heard af anybody racing with it, drag or
>
otherwise. Some states give tax breaks for propane power.
>
>
Comments anyone ---- I like the sound of 104 octane for $1.30
> per
gallon.
>
> Jim Berry
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:00:28
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Propane conversion
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Furman,
Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
My only concern is that the stored fuel is under constant pressure
compared
> to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is the weight penalty
to due the
> requirements for the fuel cells.
The weight penalty
would be far surpassed by the ability to run 5 more
pounds of boost. An empty
propane tank is not very heavy. My son just
bought a ½ ton truck in Phoenix
that has dual fuel systems --- book sez
you can switch on the
fly.
>Last but not least how are you going to
> fill up
the car? Take the tanks out bring them to your local hardware
store
> and say fill er up? They sure as hell will not let you just
drive up to
> their tanks and fill up.
Propane is used in cars all
over the place, RV's have several 10 gal tanks
on them ---- you just pull up
to the tank at the gas station and fill er
up.
Jim
berry
=================================================
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:47
PM
> > To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> > Same issue as
a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside the tank and
> > you have a
problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the place.
> >
>
> Jim berry
> >
==============================================
> >
> > -----
Original Message -----
> > From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>; <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
>
> <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
Propane conversion
> >
> > > Umm Jim, can you say
small car accident = BOOM. Trust me saw one of
> > the
>
> > local Cop cars that runs on propane catch fire :O It just would
not
> > stop
> > > burning, FD had to bust out with foam to
put that thing out.....
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:59:09
-0600
From: "John C. Davidson" <
jd@edge-software.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane
conversion
>
...Last but not least how are you going to
> fill up the car?
I'm
guessing you haven't lived in a rural area. ;) Propane is
readily
available. Farm trucks, home heating, tractors, etc...
-JD
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:07:29
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: FW: Team3S:
Propane conversion
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal
[mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:53 PM
To:
Furman, Russell
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
And this is
somehow worse than a gasoline fire? You can never predict what
will
happen in a wreck, regardless if the car is gas, propane or
solar
powered. You could get in an accident and through some FREAK
coincidence,
get killed by your airbag. You can't live in constant fear of
what MIGHT
happen. You just have to be intelligent about it. A properly
converted
propane car isn't going to be any more or less dangerous than a
gasoline
powered car.
The only real downside I would see to this is
not every gas station sells
propane. If you're good about always
keeping the car filled and you have a
nearby propane dealer, I say go for
it. Just watch out on those long, cross
country trips :)
Jeff
VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Furman, Russell
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:41 PM
To: 'Jim Berry';
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Propane conversion
Umm Jim, can you say small car accident
= BOOM. Trust me saw one of the
local Cop cars that runs on propane
catch fire :O It just would not stop
burning, FD had to bust out with
foam to put that thing out.....
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:10:39
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
Yup, I am a city boy ;)
Where I live we do NOT go cow tipping for
fun..... :p around
where I live to get propane you HAVE to go to the
hardware store its diesel
or gas no propane.
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: John C. Davidson [SMTP:jd@edge-software.com]
> Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 2:59 PM
> To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
>
>
>
...Last but not least how are you going to
> > fill up the car?
>
> I'm guessing you haven't lived in a rural area. ;) Propane
is
> readily available. Farm trucks, home heating, tractors,
etc...
>
> -JD
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:51:20
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
Also, it is used a lot in Diesel
applications for both better gas
economy and greater hp. On my Hummer
list, several people are running
propane and it is 100% safer then
nitrous. It actually cools the engine
instead of heating it up, and
depending how it is setup, can give you
30-40% better gas mileage or a hell
of a lot of power and torque.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2
Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 3:00 PM
To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
My only concern is that the stored fuel is under constant
pressure
compared
> to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is the
weight penalty to due
the
> requirements for the fuel cells.
The
weight penalty would be far surpassed by the ability to run 5 more
pounds of
boost. An empty propane tank is not very heavy. My son just
bought a 1/2 ton
truck in Phoenix that has dual fuel systems --- book
sez
you can switch on
the fly.
>Last but not least how are you going to
> fill
up the car? Take the tanks out bring them to your local
hardware
store
> and say fill er up? They sure as hell will not
let you just drive up
to
> their tanks and fill up.
Propane is
used in cars all over the place, RV's have several 10 gal
tanks
on them
---- you just pull up to the tank at the gas station and fill
er
up.
Jim
berry
=================================================
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:47
PM
> > To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> > Same issue as
a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside the tank and
> > you have a
problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the place.
> >
>
> Jim berry
> >
==============================================
> >
> > -----
Original Message -----
> > From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>; <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
>
> <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
Propane conversion
> >
> > > Umm Jim, can you say
small car accident = BOOM. Trust me saw one
of
> > the
>
> > local Cop cars that runs on propane catch fire :O It just
would
not
> > stop
> > > burning, FD had to bust out
with foam to put that thing out.....
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:18:29
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Pressure
4 bar of line pressure at 1.2 bar boost.
Bringing this back to psi
where it makes sense, 4 bar would be 58 psi and 1.2
bar would be 17.4
psi. Factory line pressure should be 17.4 + 43 psi or about
60.4 psi.
If you are just giving general sorts of numbers you are probably
OK
with only 4 bar of line pressure.
My stock FPR, stock -5 lines,
stock filter, and Denso 195130-1020
(Supra Turbo) pump give about 60-61 psi
of line pressure at 17-18 psi
boost, which is all I can run everyday because
of detonation at
higher boost. WI this winter will fix that.
For unit
conversions:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-converters.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
StealthCT@aol.com>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:50 AM
Subject: Team3S: Fuel Pressure
I
have 720 injectors, Paxton fuel pump and larger fuel lines and see
about 4
bar of fuel pressure at 1.2 bars of boost. Regards
Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:03:30
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
It is also FAR lighter than 6.5lbs per
gallon like gasoline, and doesnt
kill the car when you run low and turn
really hard.
On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Jim Berry wrote:
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> > My only concern is that the stored fuel is under constant pressure
compared
> > to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is the weight
penalty to due the
> > requirements for the fuel cells.
>
> The weight penalty would be far surpassed by the ability to run 5
more
> pounds of boost. An empty propane tank is not very heavy. My son
just
> bought a ½ ton truck in Phoenix that has dual fuel systems --- book
sez
> you can switch on the fly.
>
> >Last but not
least how are you going to
> > fill up the car? Take the tanks
out bring them to your local hardware store
> > and say fill er
up? They sure as hell will not let you just drive up to
> > their
tanks and fill up.
>
> Propane is used in cars all over the place,
RV's have several 10 gal tanks
> on them ---- you just pull up to the tank
at the gas station and fill er up.
>
> Jim berry
>
=================================================
>
> > >
-----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001
2:47 PM
> > > To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
> > >
> > >
Same issue as a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside the tank and
> >
> you have a problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the
place.
> > >
> >
> Jim berry
> > >
==============================================
> > >
> >
> ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> > To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>; <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
>
> > <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> >
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> > > Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane conversion
> > >
> > > > Umm
Jim, can you say small car accident = BOOM. Trust me saw one
of
> > > the
> > > > local Cop cars that runs on
propane catch fire :O It just would not
> > > stop
>
> > > burning, FD had to bust out with foam to put that thing
out.....
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original
Message-----
> > > > > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:43:09
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane conversion
Here's a link on propane.
..about heating,
I do think the vaporization will help cool, but the combustion itself is hotter
, I think, still checking more info.
http://franzh.home.texas.net/engine.htmlThe
link above indicates ignition temp 900degF, much higher than gasoline, but not
sure if combustion temp also is higher. Maybe further research will clarify how
gasoline turbo applications are affected.
Kurt
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua G. Prince
[mailto:joshua@unconundrum.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:51
PM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
Also, it is used a lot in Diesel
applications for both better gas
economy and greater hp. On my Hummer
list, several people are running
propane and it is 100% safer then
nitrous. It actually cools the engine
instead of heating it up, and
depending how it is setup, can give you
30-40% better gas mileage or a hell
of a lot of power and torque.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2
Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 3:00 PM
To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
My only concern is that the stored fuel is under constant
pressure
compared
> to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is the
weight penalty to due
the
> requirements for the fuel cells.
The
weight penalty would be far surpassed by the ability to run 5 more
pounds of
boost. An empty propane tank is not very heavy. My son just
bought a 1/2 ton
truck in Phoenix that has dual fuel systems --- book
sez
you can switch on
the fly.
>Last but not least how are you going to
> fill
up the car? Take the tanks out bring them to your local
hardware
store
> and say fill er up? They sure as hell will not
let you just drive up
to
> their tanks and fill up.
Propane is
used in cars all over the place, RV's have several 10 gal
tanks
on them
---- you just pull up to the tank at the gas station and fill
er
up.
Jim
berry
=================================================
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:47
PM
> > To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> > Same issue as
a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside the tank and
> > you have a
problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the place.
> >
>
> Jim berry
> >
==============================================
> >
> > -----
Original Message -----
> > From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>; <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
>
> <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
Propane conversion
> >
> >
> > > Umm Jim,
can you say small car accident = BOOM. Trust me saw one
of
> >
the
> > > local Cop cars that runs on propane catch fire :O It
just would
not
> > stop
> > > burning, FD had to bust
out with foam to put that thing out.....
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:55:57
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that is
wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then upgrade it to
600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
- -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:19:45
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
> OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion
on this one. As some may
> know, there is some chick on
Starnet that is wanting to get
> a VR-4 and turn it into an Automatic, and
then upgrade it
> to 600 HP or so...
I can't imagine an auto
tranny built for 220 HP having good longevity with
600+ HP put through
it. It should be feasible to do it, but I think a lot
of cash will end
up being spent on tranny parts. Wheel hop may suck really
bad, and
torque steer should be nice and strong since it'll be a FWD
conversion as
well. Yikes...
Not a project I'd personally want to tackle, but
some people like to do
things different I guess.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:37:36
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Has anyone put a aftermarket CD changer in a spyder?
Hey
Jon,
I have a Panasonic DVD Player head unit with a 7"
screen. If you get a
brand name head unit, it's very likely they also
make a CD Changer. I
picked up an 8 disc Panasonic for mine for like
$90.
Pretty much anything you put in will probably require all new
wiring. You
may be able to use the wiring to the speakers, but the
wiring to the rest of
the components (ie. head unit to amp) is better to
replace. You can
probably fit an aftermarket amp where the stock is,
but like I said the
wiring is mostly worthless. I ended up putting my
disc changer where the
old amp was.
As a pointer, make sure the head
unit you get has plenty of inputs (audio,
video) and outputs (2-3 preouts,
video). The more the better. Inputs are
especially important if
you want to hook up an MP3 player, DVD, Playstation,
MiniDisc, etc, and
outputs are need for the amps.
Here's some pics of my install for some
ideas:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33884Good
luck,
Chrstopher
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nemisis"
<
nemisis@vci.net>
To: "Team3S"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, November 13, 2001 8:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: Has anyone put a
aftermarket CD changer in a spyder?
> Hey everyone,
>
>
I'm in process of doing a complete multimedia over haul in my
spyder
VR-4...
> and I was wondering if any of you had had success
putting an aftermarket
> changer where the factory one now sits? I'm
planning on a 7" in dash
monitor
> (w/CD changer controls) 4 channel
amp.. and upgraded speakers all around
(+
> Bass shakers). I'm just
worried about losing the luxury of a CD changer..
> Thanks for any
information... Also.. do any of you have an aftermarket amp
> sitting
where the factory amp did?
>
> God bless,
>
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:02:49
-0600
From: "John C. Davidson" <
jd@edge-software.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane conversion
Sorry I keep forgetting that some people
refuse to venture
very far from their bubbles. 8P -JD
>
Yup, I am a city boy ;) Where I live we do NOT go cow tipping
for
> fun..... :p around where I live to get propane you HAVE
to go to the
> hardware store its diesel or gas no propane.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:08:19
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There is still this persistent rumor that
Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
Automatics that were used or sold in
Australia. I'm in contact with a man
there now looking for me. If I ever
find one it will be the Holy Grail.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44
PM Eastern Standard Time,
overclck@starband.net
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that
is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then
upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
-Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:21:49
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
I know where you can get one :D They were sold
in Japan on both the NA and
TT GTOs. Good luck getting one
though. Based on recent posts around here,
no one knows how to get
anything out of Japan.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
Aso8@aol.comSent: Wednesday, November 14,
2001 6:08 PM
To:
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@mail.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There is still this persistent rumor
that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
Automatics that were used or sold in
Australia. I'm in contact with a man
there now looking for me. If I ever find
one it will be the Holy Grail.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM
Eastern Standard Time,
overclck@starband.net
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that
is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then
upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
-Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:26:44
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Yes there have been a few. I
have heard that the they suck with regards
to the computer and timing the
gear shift with the turbos. I heard some
of the high Execs in the
states were given automatic vr-4s.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly
Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From:
Aso8@aol.com
[mailto:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:08 PM
To:
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There is still this persistent rumor
that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
Automatics that were used or sold in
Australia. I'm in contact with a
man
there now looking for me. If I ever
find one it will be the Holy Grail.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44
PM Eastern Standard Time,
overclck@starband.net
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that
is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then
upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
-Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:30:06
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
600 HP AWD, Automatic?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
Aso8@aol.com>
> There is still this
persistent rumor that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
> Automatics that
were used or sold in Australia. I'm in contact with a man
> there now
looking for me. If I ever find one it will be the Holy Grail.
I'm not
sure about that ---- If you think parts for the Getrag are hard
to get can
you imagine what that AWD automatic would entail [ total
production run of 6
units ].
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:37:19
-0800
From: "Kai Langendoen" <
kail@colubs.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Australia? Somehow I doubt that. The
Rumor Mill told me Japan (as others
have stated).
I spent over a month
in Australia this year and they don't have many high
performance cars.
In fact, I never saw one GTO.
Now, as soon as I jumped the pond over to
New Zealand (the extreme sports
capital of the world), there were GTOs
everywhere. They love their fast
cars in that country! Plus they
are a lot more lenient about importing cars
from the States/Canada than
Australia, so you see more variety overall.
The point is... I'd be
looking in Japan, if I were you.
Kai
'92 Stealth RT TT
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
Aso8@aol.comSent: Wednesday, November 14,
2001 3:08 PM
To:
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@mail.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There is still this persistent rumor
that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
Automatics that were used or sold in
Australia. I'm in contact with a man
there now looking for me. If I ever find
one it will be the Holy Grail.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM
Eastern Standard Time,
overclck@starband.net
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that
is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then
upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
-Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:39:46
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Not to doubt you but...I have looked long
& hard in many countries for this
elusive tranny. I'll believe it when I
see it or can buy it. If it handled
the VR-4 it had to be beefed up to at
least a 330hp level. If the systems are
there I can harden the
rest.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 6:27:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
joshua@unconundrum.com
writes:
<< ubj: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 6:27:20 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
joshua@unconundrum.com (Joshua G.
Prince)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
Aso8@aol.com,
overclck@starband.net,
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.com Yes
there have been a few. I have heard that the they suck with
regards
to the computer and timing the gear shift with the
turbos. I heard some
of the high Execs in the states were given
automatic vr-4s.
Joshua Prince
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:51:34
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: FW: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal
[mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:46 PM
To:
Joshua G. Prince
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
*******
Yes there have been a few. I have heard that
the they suck with regards
to the computer and timing the gear shift with the
turbos. I heard some
of the high Execs in the states were given
automatic vr-4s.
*******
The only way that this is true is if they
were given automatic TTs is if
they were federally exempted cars that are not
in Mitsubishi's VIN database.
The VIN research that's been done shows only
two automatic TTs with American
VINs. They were never registered and
are presumed destroyed.
If anyone has any proof of the existence of US
spec, AWD A4 equipped
Stealths or VR4s I'd love to see it. I'd REALLY like to
see where you got
this rumor about them not driving well. Lots of other
turbocharged cars
have auto trannies and they run
great.
********
I'm not sure about that ---- If you think parts for
the Getrag are hard
to get can you imagine what that AWD automatic would
entail [ total
production run of 6 units ].
*******
What gave
you that idea? There were two US test mules, but there are tons
of A4
AWD GTOs in Japan. It SHOULD be fairly easy to get a salvage
driveline
from one. But as I said, it seems like no one here has any clue
how to
go about that.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Joshua G. Prince
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:27 PM
To:
Aso8@aol.com;
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Yes there have been a few. I
have heard that the they suck with regards
to the computer and timing the
gear shift with the turbos. I heard some
of the high Execs in the
states were given automatic vr-4s.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From:
Aso8@aol.com
[mailto:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:08 PM
To:
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There is still this persistent rumor
that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
Automatics that were used or sold in
Australia. I'm in contact with a
man
there now looking for me. If I ever
find one it will be the Holy Grail.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44
PM Eastern Standard Time,
overclck@starband.net
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that
is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then
upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
-Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:47:14
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
I gave up looking in Japan. Had guys there
who even tried Mitsubishi Rally
Race Teams. If they did ever exist I know
there were only a few made. Was
told may find one in the Kangaroo Country :)
One day...Yeah, right.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 6:38:23 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
kail@colubs.com
writes:
<< Subj: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 6:38:23 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
kail@colubs.com
(Kai Langendoen)
To:
Aso8@aol.com,
overclck@starband.net,
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com Australia?
Somehow I doubt that. The Rumor Mill told me Japan (as
others
have stated).
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 01:59:48
+0200
From: "Oleg" <
Oleg@3000gt.lv>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
I
have 2 friends in Russia, who drive Automatic AWD GTO, Japan spec., but
its
non turbo, of course. I was inside in one of this car:)
Oleg
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff VanOrsdal
[mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:46
PM
> To: Joshua G. Prince
> Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
>
>
> *******
> Yes there have been a
few. I have heard that the they suck with regards
> to the computer
and timing the gear shift with the turbos. I heard some
> of the
high Execs in the states were given automatic vr-4s.
>
*******
>
> The only way that this is true is if they were given
automatic TTs is if
> they were federally exempted cars that are not in
Mitsubishi's VIN
database.
> The VIN research that's been done shows
only two automatic TTs with
American
> VINs. They were never
registered and are presumed destroyed.
>
> If anyone has any proof
of the existence of US spec, AWD A4 equipped
> Stealths or VR4s I'd love
to see it. I'd REALLY like to see where you got
> this rumor about them
not driving well. Lots of other turbocharged cars
> have auto
trannies and they run great.
>
> ********
> I'm not sure about
that ---- If you think parts for the Getrag are hard
> to get can you
imagine what that AWD automatic would entail [ total
> production run of 6
units ].
>
> *******
>
> What gave you that idea?
There were two US test mules, but there are tons
> of A4 AWD GTOs in
Japan. It SHOULD be fairly easy to get a salvage
> driveline from
one. But as I said, it seems like no one here has any clue
> how to
go about that.
>
> Jeff V.
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Joshua G. Prince
>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:27 PM
> To:
Aso8@aol.com;
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
>
>
> Yes there
have been a few. I have heard that the they suck with regards
> to
the computer and timing the gear shift with the turbos. I heard
some
> of the high Execs in the states were given automatic
vr-4s.
>
> Joshua Prince
> 97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer
Convertible
> 3SI#0136
> Microsoft Certified System Engineer
>
Joshua@Unconundrum.com>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
Aso8@aol.com [mailto:Aso8@aol.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:08 PM
> To:
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
>
> There is still this
persistent rumor that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
>
> Automatics
that were used or sold in Australia. I'm in contact with a
> man
>
there now looking for me. If I ever find one it will be the Holy
Grail.
>
> In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time,
>
overclck@starband.net
writes:
>
> << Subj: Team3S: 600 HP
AWD, Automatic?
> Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
> From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
> Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com>
To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
>
> OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
> is some chick on Starnet
that is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
> an Automatic, and
then upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
>
> I think it sounds
ridiculous...
>
> Opinions?
>
> -Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 01:03:32
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Upgrade SMIC's VS FMIC's (WI reducing temp)
> Ok has
anyone measured intake temps on their car with WI on vs off?
Up to 98°C
without WI (rear IC piping was 141°C) and down to 49°C with WI.
Depending on
the ambient.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:10:20
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
It was on the GTO SR and this was a regular production
model. Whoever your
sources are, they aren't very good.
How's
this for proof?
http://www.xtreme3s.net/images/getrash/automatic%20AWD.jpgand
this
http://www.streetimports.com/novauctions/6g72-2.jpgI've
got more than 12 pages of part numbers and diagrams for this thing.
Oh,
and here's the original model page for the 99 GTO
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs8/productss/gto99/lineup.htmlThis
is of particular interest:
"GTO SR
FULL-TIME 4WD
V6 3000 DOHC
24-VALVE
3MODE FUZZY-SHIFT 4-SPEED FULL-AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
5-SPEED
MANUAL TRANSMISSION "
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
Aso8@aol.comSent: Wednesday, November 14,
2001 6:47 PM
To:
kail@colubs.com;
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@mail.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
I gave up looking in Japan. Had guys
there who even tried Mitsubishi Rally
Race Teams. If they did ever exist I
know there were only a few made. Was
told may find one in the Kangaroo
Country :) One day...Yeah, right.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 6:38:23
PM Eastern Standard Time,
kail@colubs.com writes:
<<
Subj: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 6:38:23 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
kail@colubs.com
(Kai Langendoen)
To:
Aso8@aol.com,
overclck@starband.net,
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com Australia?
Somehow I doubt that. The Rumor Mill told me Japan (as
others
have stated). >>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:18:17
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Jeff, sorry you're wrong. The GTO SR is
not a Twin Turbo Model! It was only
an SL model built for 220 hp. This is
not what I wanted. I wanted a VR-4 or
TT or GTO model AWD Auto Tranny that
was built for at least the twin turbo
model that had 330HP. Close but I know
of these and they are common. Not the
same tho.
In a message dated
11/14/2001 7:04:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jeffv@1nce.com writes:
<<
ubj: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001
7:04:52 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:
jeffv@1nce.com (Jeff
VanOrsdal)
To:
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st (Team3s Tech
List),
Aso8@aol.com It was
on the GTO SR and this was a regular production model. Whoever
your
sources are, they aren't very good.
How's this
for proof?
http://www.xtreme3s.net/images/getrash/automatic%20AWD.jpg and
this
http://www.streetimports.com/novauctions/6g72-2.jpg I've
got more than 12 pages of part numbers and diagrams for this
thing.
Oh, and here's the original model page for the 99
GTO
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs8/productss/gto99/lineup.html This
is of particular interest:
"GTO SR
FULL-TIME
4WD
V6 3000 DOHC 24-VALVE
3MODE FUZZY-SHIFT 4-SPEED
FULL-AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
5-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION
"
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
Aso8@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November
14, 2001 6:47 PM
To:
kail@colubs.com;
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com Subject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
I gave up looking in
Japan. Had guys there who even tried Mitsubishi Rally
Race Teams. If
they did ever exist I know there were only a few made. Was
told may
find one in the Kangaroo Country :) One day...Yeah, right.
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:21:40
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Guys my brother had a 94SL Auto and my son
has the 94 sl 5-spd I know the
cars.
I want the AWD TWIN TURBO Tranny "If
it exists"?
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 11/14/2001 7:04:58 PM
Eastern Standard Time,
Oleg@3000gt.lv
writes:
<< ubj: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 7:04:58 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
Oleg@3000gt.lv
(Oleg)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
(Team3S)
I have 2 friends in Russia, who drive Automatic AWD
GTO, Japan spec., but
its non turbo, of course. I was inside in one of
this car:)
Oleg
>>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:27:17
+0200
From: "Oleg" <
Oleg@3000gt.lv>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
The JDM CAPS not shows Automatic tranny for turbo
GTO.
Oleg
> Guys my brother had a 94SL Auto and my son has the
94 sl 5-spd I know the
> cars.
> I want the AWD TWIN TURBO Tranny
"If it exists"?
> Arty 91 VR-4
>
> In a message dated
11/14/2001 7:04:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>
Oleg@3000gt.lv writes:
>
> <<
ubj: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
> Date:
11/14/2001 7:04:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From:
Oleg@3000gt.lv (Oleg)
>
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
(Team3S)
>
> I have 2 friends in Russia, who drive Automatic
AWD GTO, Japan spec., but
> its non turbo, of course. I was inside
in one of this car:)
>
> Oleg
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:37:20
-0500
From: "Joshua G. Prince" <
joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There have been 2 list members who
have driven automatic vr-4's here in
the states. They have said that
there seemed to be a problem with gear
shifting. The cars may have
started out as manual and been changed
later which would explain for the
VINs. I don't remember the
individuals names, but we have had several
discussion about them before
and on the 3si message board. I am just
re-stating the info, I was
given..
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal [mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:52 PM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: FW:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff
VanOrsdal [mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:46
PM
To: Joshua G. Prince
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
*******
Yes there have been a few. I have heard
that the they suck with regards
to the computer and timing the gear shift
with the turbos. I heard some
of the high Execs in the states were
given automatic vr-4s.
*******
The only way that this is true is if
they were given automatic TTs is if
they were federally exempted cars that
are not in Mitsubishi's VIN
database.
The VIN research that's been done
shows only two automatic TTs with
American
VINs. They were never
registered and are presumed destroyed.
If anyone has any proof of the
existence of US spec, AWD A4 equipped
Stealths or VR4s I'd love to see it.
I'd REALLY like to see where you
got
this rumor about them not driving
well. Lots of other turbocharged cars
have auto trannies and they run
great.
********
I'm not sure about that ---- If you think parts for
the Getrag are hard
to get can you imagine what that AWD automatic would
entail [ total
production run of 6 units ].
*******
What gave
you that idea? There were two US test mules, but there are
tons
of
A4 AWD GTOs in Japan. It SHOULD be fairly easy to get a
salvage
driveline from one. But as I said, it seems like no one here
has any
clue
how to go about that.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Joshua G. Prince
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:27 PM
To:
Aso8@aol.com;
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Yes there have been a few. I
have heard that the they suck with regards
to the computer and timing the
gear shift with the turbos. I heard some
of the high Execs in the
states were given automatic vr-4s.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow
Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From:
Aso8@aol.com
[mailto:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:08 PM
To:
overclck@starband.net;
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
There is still this persistent rumor
that Mitsubishi made a few AWD VR-4
Automatics that were used or sold in
Australia. I'm in contact with a
man
there now looking for me. If I ever
find one it will be the Holy Grail.
In a message dated 11/14/2001 4:58:44
PM Eastern Standard Time,
overclck@starband.net
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
Date: 11/14/2001 4:58:44 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
overclck@starband.net
(cody)
Sender:
owner-team3s@team3s.com To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com
('Team3S')
OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this
one. As some may know, there
is some chick on Starnet that
is wanting to get a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then
upgrade it to 600 HP or so...
I think it sounds
ridiculous...
Opinions?
-Cody
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 01:40:03
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
Just got off
the phone with the owner and he told me that CR was lower after
the rebuild.
He used stock pistons (oversized) that are designed to keep the
stock CR
Ratio. Therefore CR stayed the same (theoretically).
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch> > The car is
equipped with :
> > - 3.1l overbored engine
>
>
Hi
>
> I think that the main problem is that when you overbore the
engine
> you
> automatically increase the compression ratio which
automatically
> makes it more prone to knock. Maybe thicker headgaskets
should be
> used or lower compression pistons.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:40:11
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: More Getrag parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS
Has anybody besides
Jeff V. successfully downloaded any of these files? I
ran Bearshare for 4
hours straight today, and it didn't even find the first
file.
Wayne
At 01:58 AM 11/12/01 , Oleg
wrote:
>Hello,
>I posted JDM CAPS in
www.bearshare.com>There are 5
files,
>JDMsetup.zip
>JDM1.zip
>JDM2.zip
>JDM3.zip
>JDM4.zip
>You
can take it. Remember, JDM caps is other program! Please save and
instal
>it to new directories!
>Next 1-3 days I'll post 5 and 6
speed Getrag parts prices from my local
>Mitsu
dealership.
>
>Regards,
>
>Oleg
Reznik
>www.3000gt.lv
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 03:01:56
+0200
From: "Oleg" <
Oleg@3000gt.lv>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More
Getrag parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS
There are 2 persons download 2
files now. Who is this???? May be somebody
can help, how can I post 600Meg in
the net??? My local provider will kill
me!:)) Also, I can post files in
Napster, but it's the same programm...
If somebody can't find
files, I can sent all 5 cd by postal service.
Oleg
> Has
anybody besides Jeff V. successfully downloaded any of these files? I
>
ran Bearshare for 4 hours straight today, and it didn't even find
the
first
> file.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> At
01:58 AM 11/12/01 , Oleg wrote:
> >Hello,
> >I posted JDM CAPS
in
www.bearshare.com> >There
are 5 files,
> >JDMsetup.zip
> >JDM1.zip
>
>JDM2.zip
> >JDM3.zip
> >JDM4.zip
> >You can take
it. Remember, JDM caps is other program! Please save and
instal
>
>it to new directories!
> >Next 1-3 days I'll post 5 and 6 speed
Getrag parts prices from my local
> >Mitsu dealership.
>
>
> >Regards,
> >
> >Oleg Reznik
>
>www.3000gt.lv
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:22:25
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: More
Getrag parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS
I can post the files on a limited
basis this weekend. This would be a
broadband connection with a dedicated
server. I need to know how many
people are interested.
Let's
make a list. I'll see what I can do.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX
Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Oleg
Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 8:02 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Getrag
parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS
There are 2 persons download 2 files now.
Who is this???? May be somebody
can help, how can I post 600Meg in the net???
My local provider will kill
me!:)) Also, I can post files in Napster, but
it's the same programm...
If somebody can't find files, I can
sent all 5 cd by postal service.
Oleg
> Has anybody besides
Jeff V. successfully downloaded any of these files? I
> ran Bearshare for
4 hours straight today, and it didn't even find the
first
>
file.
>
> Wayne
>
> At 01:58 AM 11/12/01 , Oleg
wrote:
> >Hello,
> >I posted JDM CAPS in
www.bearshare.com> >There are 5
files,
> >JDMsetup.zip
> >JDM1.zip
>
>JDM2.zip
> >JDM3.zip
> >JDM4.zip
> >You can take
it. Remember, JDM caps is other program! Please save and
instal
>
>it to new directories!
> >Next 1-3 days I'll post 5 and 6 speed
Getrag parts prices from my local
> >Mitsu dealership.
>
>
> >Regards,
> >
> >Oleg Reznik
>
>www.3000gt.lv
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:12:42
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: was engine knock NOW Fuel system upgrades
Uh Russ, back to this..
Sorry but I am right on this one. As stated, there IS additional
acceleration induced pressure required, but it is independent of the line size.
It IS dependent on line LENGTH from pump to fuel rail. Acceleration is
acceleration, and whether acting vertically, as in my example, or horizontally,
due to car acceleration, it is only the height or length of the liquid that
determines the pressure. Cross section is not a factor, because pressure is
measured in cross section, ie per sq in or sq whatever.
Over
estimating everything, fuel at 8 lbs/gal, line length at 12 ft pump to rail,
acceleration of .7 G, I get a max acceleration pressure of 3 psi. So that is 5%
of a reasonable 60 psi boost fuel pressure.
Not insignificant, but not
much to worry about. In fact, depending on how our return lines are plumbed, it
might be fully compensated. If our return lines are always full, then the
compensation would be in effect.
Kurt
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Furman, Russell
[mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:13
AM
To: Zobel, Kurt
Cc: 'Team 3S'
Subject: Team3S: was engine knock NOW
Fuel system upgrades
Uh Kurt I am going to disagree basically b/c your
example is flawed
SEVERELY. This example is accurate, take a water pump
and pressurize a
piece of garden hose (similar idea to our fuel line) now
take and violently
shake it forward and backwards while measuring the amp and
voltage draws of
the pump you will see fluctuations up and down. Why
b/c the ump is being
forced to work harder to prevent the fluid from flowing
back from its
originating point and the only possible escape route for the
pressurized
water to escape from.
See what I am saying
now?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zobel, Kurt
[SMTP:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:51
PM
> To: Jannusch, Matt; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt
engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
>
> It adds up to zero!
> That is, acceleration will take extra psi to overcome, but it is the
same
> regardless of line size.
>
> Think of it as two pipes,
one 1" id, the other 2' id, standing vertically.
> if they are both 10
feet tall, the pressure at the bottom is y psi for
> both.
> If you
now make them 20 feet tall(acceleration effect), they still both
> have 2y
psi.
>
> And a bigger line does not require a bigger pump, only
more time to
> initially fill, then it is on equal footing and better,
since the pressure
> drop is less.
>
>
Kurt
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt
[mailto:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001
7:05 AM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have
more knock !? (kinda long)
>
> > Matt, I personally do not see
the advantage to splitting the
> > fuel line to send it
"sequentially" I think you mean equally
> > :)
>
>
You are right - I didn't explain my thinking as clearly as I could have.
>
I
> did mean I thought it would be better for parallel flow into the
rails
> than
> sequentially (theoretically).
>
> >
Anyway if you note the firing cycle of any multicyclinder gas
> >
powered ICE the injectors fire in a pattern not all at once
> > so the
injectors will not be starving for fuel never mind the
> > fact that
the plumbing and all the fittings to build your set
> > up are going to
add unnecessary bends and "POSSIBLE"
> > restrictions to fuel flow. Of
course this is all IMHO
>
> I realize they fire in a pattern and
not at the same time. But each one
> fires once every .017 seconds
at 7200 RPM (for a duration of .014 seconds
> at
> 80% duty
cycle). At 80% IDC it is also firing through a lot more of each
>
cycle (even onto closed intake valves). 60 times per second for
each
> injector (3600 events per minute), and 360 injection events per
second
> total
> counting all injectors. They are all firing
at once - or more precisely
> 80%
> of the injectors are open at a
given time at 80% IDC.
>
> > We really can not compare our cars
to like Camaros and
> > Mustangs..... We run much higher fuel
pressures than those
> > cars in on boost situations, they use bigger
lines to
> > counteract for the lower pressures found we do not need
to.
> > Also interesting bit of info under moderate-heavy
>
> acceleration the fuel pump is forced to work harder to move
> >
the fuel forward in the line the larger the line you go (its
> > early
and I can not remember the term for this)
>
> Hmmm...
Interesting point. I hadn't considered that larger lines would
>
carry more fuel mass which would make it harder to pump forward when
>
accelerating. Good point... <scratching head> I don't
think I'm smart
> enough to figure out how much that effect would add
up.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:47:16
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Propane conversion
Nother link. They say 700hp, then wimp out and
only test using 5psi boost 430hp.
Gas turbo 350cid.
http://www.truckworld.com/4x4-OffRoad/96-1957TurboWillys/1957TurboWillys.htmlKurt
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Wednesday, November
14, 2001 1:43 PM
To: Joshua G. Prince;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
Here's a link on propane.
..about
heating, I do think the vaporization will help cool, but the combustion itself
is hotter , I think, still checking more info.
http://franzh.home.texas.net/engine.htmlThe
link above indicates ignition temp 900degF, much higher than gasoline, but not
sure if combustion temp also is higher. Maybe further research will clarify how
gasoline turbo applications are affected.
Kurt
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua G. Prince
[mailto:joshua@unconundrum.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:51
PM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
Also, it is used a lot in Diesel
applications for both better gas
economy and greater hp. On my Hummer
list, several people are running
propane and it is 100% safer then
nitrous. It actually cools the engine
instead of heating it up, and
depending how it is setup, can give you
30-40% better gas mileage or a hell
of a lot of power and torque.
Joshua Prince
97 1/2
Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System
Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com -----Original
Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 3:00 PM
To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
My only concern is that the stored fuel is under constant
pressure
compared
> to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is the
weight penalty to due
the
> requirements for the fuel cells.
The
weight penalty would be far surpassed by the ability to run 5 more
pounds of
boost. An empty propane tank is not very heavy. My son just
bought a 1/2 ton
truck in Phoenix that has dual fuel systems --- book
sez
you can switch on
the fly.
>Last but not least how are you going to
> fill
up the car? Take the tanks out bring them to your local
hardware
store
> and say fill er up? They sure as hell will not
let you just drive up
to
> their tanks and fill up.
Propane is
used in cars all over the place, RV's have several 10 gal
tanks
on them
---- you just pull up to the tank at the gas station and fill
er
up.
Jim
berry
=================================================
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:47
PM
> > To: Furman, Russell;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> > Same issue as
a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside the tank and
> > you have a
problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the place.
> >
>
> Jim berry
> >
==============================================
> >
> > -----
Original Message -----
> > From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> To: 'Jim Berry' <
fastmax@home.com>; <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
>
> <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
Propane conversion
> >
> > > Umm Jim, can you say
small car accident = BOOM. Trust me saw one
of
> > the
>
> > local Cop cars that runs on propane catch fire :O It just
would
not
> > stop
> > > burning, FD had to bust out
with foam to put that thing out.....
> > >
> > > >
-----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:54:22
EST
From:
NETM1NDER@aol.comSubject: Team3S: T.E.C.
Front Strut Tower
Brace
Special for team 3S, 3si & Starnet members Strut tower
brace with custom
battery holddown is $300. + shipping & handling.
This
is a
$50.00
discount.
=====================================================
> T.E.C UPPER FRONT STRUT TOWER BRACE
<
You have the opportunity to get a front strut tower
brace
for
your
3000GT, SL or VR4-1st or 2nd generation. (1991 to
1999)
Benefits of a front strut tower brace can be seen at the site
below.
<A HREF="
http://e30m3performance.com/">Gustave's
BMW E30 M3
Performance Site</A>
The address above must all be one
line.
If it isn't, then copy it to your browser as one line to make
it
work.
Colors available are in
stock:
* Chrome
< These are Powder Coating Colors
>
* Blue
* Red
*
Black
*
White
*
Yellow
For other colors please E-mail me for info.
NETM1NDER@aol.com
The strut tower brace is machined from 6061-T6 Aluminum and
uses
a
solid
brace of . 625 inches x 1.5 inches that connects to the two
strut
mounts.
* A picture of the bar with installation instructions can be
seen
at: *
<A
HREF="
http://www.speedtoys.com/~egross/3000GT/FrontStrutTowerBar/FrontStrutTowerBar.html">TEC
3000GT Front Strut Tower
Bar</A>
A battery hold down is required because the stock battery &
stock
hold
down cannot be used due to
clearance.
A battery like the Optima or one with dimensions of
H= 6.75" x W= 6.813" x L= 9.75" or smaller can be
used.
(H, W, & L can be +or-
.125")
Another option is to relocate your battery to the back so no
holddown
is
required.
Price of Strut tower brace with custom battery holddown
is
Reg : $350.00 on special for team
members for $300.00
+
shipping & handling. Make payment check to Chris
Thorne.
Payment checks will go
to:
Chris
Thorne
Apt.
212
1404 East Schuylkill
Road
Pottstown, PA 19465
Shipments are made by UPS ground and will be insured
NETM1NDER@aol.com is the E-mail address
for Chris
Throne.
He can be contacted if you have technical
questions.
Also coming soon A rear strut tower brace, SP covers, Ypipe &
IC
pipes.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:58:38
-0800
From: Bob Forrest <
bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: More Getrag parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS
As we have said a
dozen times, we will host them on the Team3S
website, right next to the USA
version of CAPS, *permanently*. If you
have a high-speed connection,
all you have to do is send them ONCE.
We have space on the Team3S server
thanks to Geoff Mohler, who spends
his hard-earned cash to host it for
us. SOMEBODY (Oleg, Jeff L, ?)
please contact Geoff and make
arrangements to get the files or CD's to
him. His email is in the CC
box, above.
Note: For any of you who have used Bearshare, or Juno, or
other P2P
systems, get them OFF your computer until you read about how they
can
use your computer for other purposes. P2P is a BAD idea,
people.
It's like offering to carry a package given to you by a
stranger
through customs. What are you thinking??? "Gee, why
don't I hook up
my computer to a whole bunch of other people's
computers? Nothing can
happen, right?" Gheesh... (Comments
OFF-list, please!)
Best,
Forrest
> There are 2 persons
download 2 files now. Who is this???? May be
somebody
> can help, how
can I post 600Meg in the net??? My local provider will
kill
> me!:))
Also, I can post files in Napster, but it's the same
programm...
>
If somebody can't find files, I can sent all 5 cd by
postal
service.
>
> Oleg
>
>
> > Has anybody
besides Jeff V. successfully downloaded any of these
files? I
> >
ran Bearshare for 4 hours straight today, and it didn't even find
the
>
first
> > file.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
>
>
> > At 01:58 AM 11/12/01 , Oleg wrote:
> >
>Hello,
> > >I posted JDM CAPS in
www.bearshare.com> > >There are
5 files,
> > >JDMsetup.zip
> > >JDM1.zip
> >
>JDM2.zip
> > >JDM3.zip
> > >JDM4.zip
> >
>You can take it. Remember, JDM caps is other program! Please
save
and
> instal
> > >it to new directories!
> >
>Next 1-3 days I'll post 5 and 6 speed Getrag parts prices from
my
local
> > >Mitsu dealership.
> > >
> >
>Regards,
> > >
> > >Oleg Reznik
> >
>www.3000gt.lv
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:59:48
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
That's the trick, to find an AWD auto
setup that will keep it AWD.
There should be some van or utility with an AWD
automatic that could adapt.
Might be easier to generate an all
electronic shift system, if that's what they're after.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
[mailto:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:20
PM
To: 'cody'; 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD,
Automatic?
> OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on this one.
As some may
> know, there is some chick on Starnet that is wanting to
get
> a VR-4 and turn it into an Automatic, and then upgrade it
> to
600 HP or so...
I can't imagine an auto tranny built for 220 HP
having good longevity with
600+ HP put through it. It should be
feasible to do it, but I think a lot
of cash will end up being spent on
tranny parts. Wheel hop may suck really
bad, and torque steer should be
nice and strong since it'll be a FWD
conversion as well.
Yikes...
Not a project I'd personally want to tackle, but some people
like to do
things different I guess.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:18:06
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
That's the trick, to find an AWD auto setup that will
keep it AWD.
There should be some van or utility with an AWD automatic that
could adapt.
**********
Am I the only one who sees the obvious
solution here? JUST IMPORT AND BEEF
UP A GTO SR BOX! Damn, why
must we always re-invent the wheel in this
group?
Either pony up the
cash for a custom gearbox, a REAL upgrade for the
existing boxes, or quit
complaining. We rehash this seemingly every couple
months, and the
result is always the same. The stock Getrag is questionable
at best,
downright worthless as worst, and no one is willing to fund R&D for
real
upgrades or a whole replacement.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:14:24
-0600
From: David Allison <
daedel@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
On the Subject of SUV/Van Automatic AWDs... According
to this website:
http://spanish.koons.com/servlets/webSearch?newused=N&PARAMD=MERCURY,
the Mercury Mountaineer has an AWD Automatic Tranny. Not sure on the
validity but it may be worth looking into.
On Wednesday, November 14,
2001, at 04:19 PM, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
>> OK, gotta get the
Team3S opinion on this one. As some may
>> know, there is
some chick on Starnet that is wanting to get
>> a VR-4 and turn it into
an Automatic, and then upgrade it
>> to 600 HP or so...
>
>
I can't imagine an auto tranny built for 220 HP having good longevity
>
with
> 600+ HP put through it. It should be feasible to do it, but I
think a
> lot
> of cash will end up being spent on tranny
parts. Wheel hop may suck
> really
> bad, and torque steer
should be nice and strong since it'll be a FWD
> conversion as well.
Yikes...
>
> Not a project I'd personally want to tackle, but some
people like to do
> things different I guess.
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:20:13
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001
09:34:28 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
Yes Ive
noticed that most people are running the stock heat range
(6) in a copper
plug in all honesty on moderate to heavy modded set ups I
would recommend
running the same style platinum plug at least one heat range
cooler (7)
possibly two is running more than 20 PSI (8) If I could find
that
cross-reference chart I had. I could get us a NGK part number for
our
stock plugs just one range cooler (7)
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----------------------
Copper
NGK:
BCPR6ES-11
BCPR7ES-11
- - tds
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:25:09
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600
HP AWD, Automatic?
Please tell me you're joking. How is it we can't
use a GTO SR transmission
that was designed to fit our car, but a MOUNTAINEER
transmission that's
meant for longitudal mounting in a TRUCK is a better
choice?
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of David Allison
Sent:
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:14 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
On the Subject of SUV/Van Automatic
AWDs... According to this website:
http://spanish.koons.com/servlets/webSearch?newused=N&PARAMD=MERCURY,
the
Mercury Mountaineer has an AWD Automatic Tranny. Not sure on the
validity but
it may be worth looking into.
On Wednesday, November 14, 2001, at 04:19
PM, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
>> OK, gotta get the Team3S opinion on
this one. As some may
>> know, there is some chick on
Starnet that is wanting to get
>> a VR-4 and turn it into an Automatic,
and then upgrade it
>> to 600 HP or so...
>
> I can't
imagine an auto tranny built for 220 HP having good longevity
>
with
> 600+ HP put through it. It should be feasible to do it, but I
think a
> lot
> of cash will end up being spent on tranny
parts. Wheel hop may suck
> really
> bad, and torque steer
should be nice and strong since it'll be a FWD
> conversion as well.
Yikes...
>
> Not a project I'd personally want to tackle, but some
people like to do
> things different I guess.
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:07:00
+0700
From: "Jane" <
dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
Subject:
Team3S: NEED ADVISE
Hi Guys,
I would like to clean my throttle
body especially cleaning or removing
ISC/IAC motor so that whenever I adjust
BISS in or out the rpm will decrease
or increase.
Please advise me what
should I do first and what component that I must take
care and how to check
the component inside throttle body that still good
working.
Your
kindly attention will be highly appreciated.
Kindly
regards,
Jane
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:08:53
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NEED ADVISE
Hey, hehe... I just did this... my ISC was
broken though?? Wanna
trade??? I managed to stick mine in the
closed position... the idle
screw works beautifully now...
If
not doing that, I would get a metal piece, maybe a quarter, and
silicone it
into the opening once the ISC is removed. Then of course,
gut the ISC
and replace it so there are no air leaks.
- -Cody
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jane
Sent: Wednesday,
November 14, 2001 9:07 PM
To:
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: Team3S: NEED
ADVISE
Hi Guys,
I would like to clean my throttle body especially
cleaning or removing
ISC/IAC motor so that whenever I adjust BISS in or out
the rpm will
decrease
or increase.
Please advise me what should I do
first and what component that I must
take
care and how to check the
component inside throttle body that still good
working.
Your kindly
attention will be highly appreciated.
Kindly
regards,
Jane
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:39:08
-0800
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Colder Heat Range Spark Plugs
http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.htmAnother
good one. FYI.
Rich
"Jannusch, Matt" wrote:
>
> >
Ok, so can someone explain exactly how a "colder" heat range
> > spark
plug differs from a "warmer" range plug (or point me to
> > a
website)? Does it refer to the actual temperature of the
> >
electrode?
>
> First read this:
>
>
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/faq/faqheatrange.asp>
>
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overviewp2.asp>
>
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/faq/faqmodified.asp>
> A colder plug dissipates more heat away from the cylinder and into the
head.
> If you run too hot of a plug it can induce preignition and
detonation. NGK
> recommends that for every 75-100 HP more your
motor makes you should go one
> heat range cooler.
>
> >
Is this a pre-ignition/detonation control thing?
>
> Yup...
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:52:29
-0800
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
was engine knock NOW Fuel system upgrades
Actually the example below also
fails to mention that a vertical line of
10 vs 20 ft will have a significant
difference in weight due to much
more fluid volume plus gravity = a hell of
lot more work.
"Furman, Russell" wrote:
>
> Uh Kurt I am
going to disagree basically b/c your example is flawed
> SEVERELY.
This example is accurate, take a water pump and pressurize a
> piece of
garden hose (similar idea to our fuel line) now take and violently
> shake
it forward and backwards while measuring the amp and voltage draws of
>
the pump you will see fluctuations up and down. Why b/c the ump is
being
> forced to work harder to prevent the fluid from flowing back from
its
> originating point and the only possible escape route for the
pressurized
> water to escape from.
>
> See what I am saying
now?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Zobel,
Kurt [SMTP:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001
1:51 PM
> > To: Jannusch, Matt; 'Team 3S'
> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more
knock !? (kinda long)
> >
> > It adds up to zero!
> >
That is, acceleration will take extra psi to overcome, but it is the
same
> > regardless of line size.
> >
> > Think of it
as two pipes, one 1" id, the other 2' id, standing vertically.
> > if
they are both 10 feet tall, the pressure at the bottom is y psi for
> >
both.
> > If you now make them 20 feet tall(acceleration effect), they
still both
> > have 2y psi.
> >
> > And a bigger line
does not require a bigger pump, only more time to
> > initially fill,
then it is on equal footing and better, since the pressure
> > drop is
less.
> >
> > Kurt
> >
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Jannusch, Matt
[mailto:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14,
2001 7:05 AM
> > To: 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
> >
>
>
> > > Matt, I personally do not see the advantage to splitting
the
> > > fuel line to send it "sequentially" I think you mean
equally
> > > :)
> >
> > You are right - I didn't
explain my thinking as clearly as I could have.
> > I
> > did
mean I thought it would be better for parallel flow into the rails
> >
than
> > sequentially (theoretically).
> >
> > >
Anyway if you note the firing cycle of any multicyclinder gas
> > >
powered ICE the injectors fire in a pattern not all at once
> > > so
the injectors will not be starving for fuel never mind the
> > >
fact that the plumbing and all the fittings to build your set
> > >
up are going to add unnecessary bends and "POSSIBLE"
> > >
restrictions to fuel flow. Of course this is all IMHO
> >
> >
I realize they fire in a pattern and not at the same time. But each
one
> > fires once every .017 seconds at 7200 RPM (for a duration of
.014 seconds
> > at
> > 80% duty cycle). At 80% IDC it
is also firing through a lot more of each
> > cycle (even onto closed
intake valves). 60 times per second for each
> > injector (3600
events per minute), and 360 injection events per second
> >
total
> > counting all injectors. They are all firing at once -
or more precisely
> > 80%
> > of the injectors are open at a
given time at 80% IDC.
> >
> > > We really can not compare
our cars to like Camaros and
> > > Mustangs..... We run much
higher fuel pressures than those
> > > cars in on boost situations,
they use bigger lines to
> > > counteract for the lower pressures
found we do not need to.
> > > Also interesting bit of info under
moderate-heavy
> > > acceleration the fuel pump is forced to work
harder to move
> > > the fuel forward in the line the larger the
line you go (its
> > > early and I can not remember the term for
this)
> >
> > Hmmm... Interesting point. I hadn't
considered that larger lines would
> > carry more fuel mass which would
make it harder to pump forward when
> > accelerating. Good
point... <scratching head> I don't think I'm smart
>
> enough to figure out how much that effect would add up.
>
>
> > -Matt
> > '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:03:01
-0800
From: "Browne, Troy E" <
troy.e.browne@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
Is this a viable option? If one
could find one of these AWD automatics and
donate it how much would it
concievably cost to build it to handle
450-500hp? Sounds like a dream
come true for those of us that drive in
traffic (any of you with the RPS
stage 3 know what I mean). How much to
make everything in titanium if
that would do it. Sounds expensive but I'd
be willing to try if it's
not too cost prohibitive.
Troy B.
'96 Spyder VR-4
Jeff V
wrote:
That's the trick, to find an AWD auto setup that will keep it
AWD.
There should be some van or utility with an AWD automatic that could
adapt.
**********
Am I the only one who sees the obvious solution
here? JUST IMPORT AND BEEF
UP A GTO SR BOX! Damn, why must we
always re-invent the wheel in this
group?
Either pony up the cash for
a custom gearbox, a REAL upgrade for the
existing boxes, or quit
complaining. We rehash this seemingly every couple
months, and the
result is always the same. The stock Getrag is questionable
at best,
downright worthless as worst, and no one is willing to fund R&D for
real
upgrades or a whole replacement.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#674
***************************************
