Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, November 11
2001 Volume 01 : Number
670
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:51:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Top Speed
For a graphical look at speed in gears for stock
1st and 2nd gen AWD
with stock-sized tires take a look at my web page below.
200 mph is
"possible" according to the gearing for either gen car.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htmPower
is another matter. According to CarTest2000, at 200 mph about
400 HP would be
needed to overcome aerodynamic drag, about 100 HP
would be needed for
drivetrain losses, and about 60 HP for tire
friction. So that would be about
560 HP just to overcome "external"
losses. Some amount of HP would be needed
to actually move the 4000
lb mass and overcome "internal" engine
losses.
Matt Monett claims about 200 mph top speed with both his
Stealths.
Matt's 1/4 mile times/speed suggest power in the range of
550-600+
HP.
Food for thought. :)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- --- Thomas Jeys
<
tj@jeys.net> wrote:
> Well without
taking into account weight, HP, or drag (so based
> simply off
>
gear ratios and stock tire sizes), I think I once figured out that
> a
first
> gen toped out (redline in 5th) at 196 and a second gen toped
out
> (redline in
> 6th) at 225. So if you had all the HP in
the world and took some
> drastic
> steps with weight reduction, I
suppose that those numbers are
> possible.
>
> (RPM /
5th Gear Ratio) / Final Drive Ratio = RMP of the wheels
>
(RPM-o-W)
> RPM-o-W * Tire circumferance = Feet per minute
(FPM)
> (FPM / 5280 = Miles per minute) * 60 = Miles per
hour
>
> assume a tire circumferance of 6.47ft
>
>
5-speed transmission; Rear End Ratio = 3.97:1
>
> 1st
Gear 3.07
> 2nd Gear
1.74
> 3rd Gear 1.10
> 4th
Gear 0.82
> 5th Gear
0.66
>
> Redline = 7000RPM
>
> 6-speed transmission;
Rear End Ratio = 3.87:1
>
> 1st Gear
3.27
> 2nd Gear 1.90
> 3rd
Gear 1.24
> 4th Gear
0.92
> 5th Gear 0.73
> 6th
Gear 0.59
>
> Redline = 7000RPM
>
> -T.J.
> 92' 3000GT VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:10:17
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Top Speed
But remember ... he has only 2 km to reach top speed
in. All of these
do not give the approximate distance of a stock car
reaching top speed.
What is the distance for a stock car to reach 180 mph
anyway? I've only
been able to get through 4th gear and about 142 mph
on the Interstates
around here and then hit a curve or hill. I don't
live out West or down
South so someone needs to make a sacrifice run for the
list.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Living in hilly Pittsburgh, PA
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
Sent: Saturday, November 10,
2001 11:51
For a graphical look at speed in gears for stock 1st and
2nd gen AWD
with stock-sized tires take a look at my web page below. 200 mph
is
"possible" according to the gearing for either gen car.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htmPower
is another matter. According to CarTest2000, at 200 mph about
400 HP would be
needed to overcome aerodynamic drag, about 100 HP
would be needed for
drivetrain losses, and about 60 HP for tire
friction. So that would be about
560 HP just to overcome "external"
losses. Some amount of HP would be needed
to actually move the 4000
lb mass and overcome "internal" engine
losses.
Matt Monett claims about 200 mph top speed with both his
Stealths.
Matt's 1/4 mile times/speed suggest power in the range of
550-600+
HP.
Food for thought. :)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:12:03
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Top Speed
- --- Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com> wrote:
>
But remember ... he has only 2 km to reach top speed in.
The May 1998
Motor Trend had a top speed shootout article. The Dodge
Viper took the first
place with 192.6 mph (450 HP, 3375 lb curb
weight). They used a 5-mile oval
track wih 36º banks (Ford's Arizona
Proving Ground). I didn't notice how long
it took them to reach this
speed - but I would bet at least one lap. They did
have a 1-mile
acceleration test (1.6 km). The Viper again came in first with
173.3
mph in 30.1 seconds - drag strip starts. I'm guessing that
most
"street" cars will not see capable top speed in 2 km.
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:17:31
+1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Top Speed
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed
. Will
pictures, video, write-ups be
> available afterwards?
Here's the
site of the organisors & pics from last year
http://www.ggon.net/media/videos/ohakea/ohakea_videos.htmSteve
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:25:09
-0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Top Speed
Talk to Matt Monet, he has some experience with
open road top speed runs
in the desert I believe, he may be able to give you
some insight. I too
would also LOVE to get a video of that!!!
Matt
Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem
OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent:
Friday, November 09, 2001 9:09 PM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top
Speed
Top speed has lots to do with more than mods. Wide tires
cause more
drag on the road surface. Wide front ends and tall radiator
grills zap
efficiency. Remember the Porsche is a flat 4 or a flat 6 and
the
Skyline is an inline 6. I don't think we will ever be a force to
run
against cars like that for something like this. Our 4,000 pounds
are
much too hard to get going easily.
I believe stock top speed is in
5th gear (for 6th gear folks) and have
heard of moderate top speeds reaching
193 mph (305 kmh) but I don't know
what it entailed and most likely took more
than 2 miles to reach that
speed. Good luck regardless. Just be
safe.
Skinnier tires will help. Closing all the windows will
help. Shifting
at max torque levels will help. Will pictures,
video, write-ups be
available afterwards?
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Cooper
Sent: Friday,
November 09, 2001 19:08
Here's a good one for the experts, what top
speed can we expect from our
= modified cars.The reason I am asking is
because next weekend I am
going = on an organised speed run,
about 2km along an airport runway
with both a = police radar and police
laser at the end to measure top
speed. Last = years event was won by a
Porsche 930 at 268k, next was a
Nissan Skyline = GTR at 256k.
There will be all of Japans best at this
years event. I'm = sure that
my car should be faster than that but I
don't even know what = it will
do in 4th never mind 5th.What would you
experts expect.
Mods,
13g turbos
550 injectors
ARC2
Boost controller
etc
Best 1/4 12.009
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:44:20
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Getrag
internal diagrams and PNC codes uploaded
Thanks to Oleg, we finally have
some information on the transaxles we all
know and love. I've uploaded
the diagrams for the 5 and 6 spd AWD
transaxles to my website. I have
not yet started converting all the PNC
codes to Mitsu part numbers, but I
figured even the diagrams alone would be
useful. I'll start
assembling webpages with the part numbers as I have
time.
Unfortunately, the transfer cases are still pretty limited in what we
can get
numbers for. This also does not mean that we can necessarily
OBTAIN
these parts. Only that we have diagrams and relevant
numbers. Hopefully we
can find a dealer in Europe who is willing to
work with us and we can
FINALLY assemble some properly rebuilt
transaxles. The images are uploaded
at the address below. Please
email me with any comments or suggestions on
how the part numbers should be
laid out.
www.xtreme3s.net/images/getrashJeff
V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.comLow and behold....I
actually beat Jeff Lucius to posting something on a
website
;)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:55:06
-0500
From: "Boris" <
BPeguero@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Parts for sale
Hello everybody,
I've got a few parts for
sale, if anyone is interested, e-mail me
personally. The following list
of parts come from a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T
Twin Turbo.
Intake
Manifold with plenum
$180.00
Throttle Body
$150.00
Brand new
alternator (only used for 400 miles)
$150.00
HKS intercoolers (only
400 miles on them)
$695.00 ** Excellent Buy **
HKS Super Mega
Flow Intake for VPC application (Buyer gets extra set of new
blue
elements)
$200.00
Greddy Purple Top (Denso) 550cc fuel
injectors
Set of 6 - $300.00 ** Excellent Buy **
I am in
Massachusetts and the buyer will pay shipping. I'll be happy to
provide
a shipping quote to anyone who would like one. Checks, money
orders, or
paypal are fine.
Thank you,
Boris
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:54:12
-0500
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Getrag internal diagrams and PNC codes uploaded
Sweet, is
there a Mitsubishi number for PNC 22632? This is the 5 speed
VCU
(should be a listing for an 18 spline and a 25 spline output
shaft). Also check
on all the synchros at your earliest
convenience. Question is, even if we get a
Mitusbishi PN, can they be
ordered in the US, Europe, Japan, or anywhere?, time
will
tell.
Thanks,
Joe G.
Jeff VanOrsdal wrote:
> Thanks
to Oleg, we finally have some information on the transaxles we all
> know
and love. I've uploaded the diagrams for the 5 and 6 spd AWD
>
transaxles to my website. I have not yet started converting all the
PNC
> codes to Mitsu part numbers, but I figured even the diagrams alone
would be
> useful.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:32:34
-0600
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Getrag internal diagrams and PNC codes uploaded
It would
appear that the euro Mitsu part numbers are in the US CAPS database
as
well.
I tried it with serveral of the PNC numbers from Jeff's screen
captures with
"Z16A" as my model. I enter the PNC number in the PNC
field and then click
the PNC button. I get a message where the picture
would normally show up
saying that the "components of this manual
transmission are not serviced"
but if the pnc number is in the table to the
right and I click OK, I get the
mitsu part
number.
i.e...
MR166831 SHAFT , M/T CTR DIFF ==18 SPLINE
OUTPUT SHAFT
MR166750 GEAR & COVER, M/T CTR ==COMPLETE CENTER
DIFF
Now if someone in Europe could check to see if the 5spd parts are
available
to theh public. I think that we already know that the 6spd
parts ARE.
Good Work Jeff and Oleg!
Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
I have not yet started converting all the
PNC
>codes to Mitsu part numbers, but I figured even the diagrams alone
would be
>useful. I'll start assembling webpages with the part
numbers as I have
>time. Unfortunately, the transfer cases are still
pretty limited in what
>we
>can get numbers for. This also
does not mean that we can necessarily
>OBTAIN
>these parts.
Only that we have diagrams and relevant numbers. Hopefully
>we
>can find a dealer in Europe who is willing to work with us and
we can
>FINALLY assemble some properly rebuilt transaxles. The
images are
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:02:40
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Top Speed
If you have enough power in a second gen to redline 6th
gear, your doing
something crazy like 225 or so mph. Matt from Dynamic
Racing has claimed he
has done this in a 95 TT (modified of course) My
BPU car with stock turbos
topped out at 165mph in 5th due to lack of
power (boost was down) on a
totally flat surface. I am sure with larger
turbos as about 20-25psi, we
could see the end of the tach in
6th.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Cooper <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
To:
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: Team3S: Top Speed
>
Hi
>
> Here's a good one for the experts, what top speed can we
expect from our =
> modified cars.The reason I am asking is because next
weekend I am going =
> on an organised speed run, about 2km along an
airport runway with both a =
> police radar and police laser at the end to
measure top speed. Last =
> years event was won by a Porsche 930 at
268k, next was a Nissan Skyline =
> GTR at 256k. There will be all
of Japans best at this years event. I'm =
> sure that my car should be
faster than that but I don't even know what =
> it will do in 4th never
mind 5th.What would you experts expect.
>
> Mods, 13g turbos
>
550 injectors
> ARC2
> Boost controller etc
> Best 1/4
12.009
>
> Steve
>
>
www://.nzgto.cjb.net
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:48:40
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
FW: Team3S: Top Speed
Just to add a little personal experience to this
thread...... I took my
93VR4 out for a run tonight for any CT folks I
was on 384 (wide mostly flat
highway) Anyway ran on 291 to the
connector hit 384 rolling at 80 in third.
Wound third out to 115 wound fourth
out to 145-150 (wasnt watching the
speedo at this point) and then took fifth
to 165 according to the speedo
then let off and gingerly applied the
brakes. Took a bit of road to get up
to that speed but I am only
BPU.... Definately need the TEIN's in the car,
H&R Springs with
stock ECS didn't inspire confidence at that speed. If I can
get a really cold
night this week I will borrow a friend and his camcorder
and tape my next
run.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
Sent:
Sat 11/10/2001 12:10 PM
To: 'Team 3s'
Cc:
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top
Speed
But remember ... he has only 2 km to reach top speed in. All
of these
do not give the approximate distance of a stock car reaching top
speed.
What is the distance for a stock car to reach 180 mph anyway?
I've only
been able to get through 4th gear and about 142 mph on the
Interstates
around here and then hit a curve or hill. I don't live out
West or down
South so someone needs to make a sacrifice run for the list.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Living in hilly Pittsburgh, PA
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
Sent: Saturday, November
10, 2001 11:51
For a graphical look at speed in gears for stock
1st and 2nd gen AWD
with stock-sized tires take a look at my web page below.
200 mph is
"possible" according to the gearing for either gen car.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htm<
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htm>
Power is another matter. According to CarTest2000, at 200 mph about
400 HP would be needed to overcome aerodynamic drag, about 100 HP
would
be needed for drivetrain losses, and about 60 HP for tire
friction. So that
would be about 560 HP just to overcome "external"
losses. Some amount of HP
would be needed to actually move the 4000
lb mass and overcome "internal"
engine losses.
Matt Monett claims about 200 mph top speed with both his
Stealths.
Matt's 1/4 mile times/speed suggest power in the range of 550-600+
HP.
Food for thought. :)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:53:14
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Best Price on TEIN's
Well my "hookup" on the teins for my car
fell through :( Anyone know the
best price out there for these
would prefer to get the HA's but will go with
the HR's if need be. Let
me know in private if it is a "friend of friend"
situation.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:06:43
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Top Speed
I believe top speed in any of our cars is going to be
5th gear. Even
for the 6 gear guys. Just because the gear is one
number higher doesn't
mean it will go faster. Sixth is geared lower
than fifth and I think
the book says the stock car (TT) will do 168 mph and
this is attained in
fifth gear. I think this might also be supported by
the shift range
(redline usually) that give a speed to shift out of for fifth
gear but
nothing to shift out of for sixth ... not because there is no gear
to
shift into but because you will not be able to redline in sixth
gear
(drag limited usually).
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
4th gear at
142 mph so far but ran out of confident road quickly
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Sam Shelat
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001
18:03
If you have enough power in a second gen to redline 6th gear,
your doing
something crazy like 225 or so mph. Matt from Dynamic Racing
has
claimed he
has done this in a 95 TT (modified of course) My BPU
car with stock
turbos
topped out at 165mph in 5th due to lack of
power (boost was down) on a
totally flat surface. I am sure with larger
turbos as about 20-25psi,
we
could see the end of the tach in
6th.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 02:11:11
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: More
Getrag parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS
I got an interesting email earlier
from Mark Wendlandt. He took some of the
PNC codes from the diagrams I
uploaded and fed them into the US CAPS
database. The diagrams don't
show up, but the part numbers do! Here's the
step by step process for
doing this in the US CAPS program.
1>Select Vehicle Name Code of
53H
2>Select Model of Z16A (4WD/4WS) or Z15A (4WD/No
4WS)
3>Double click on the Classification box and select your model
from the
resulting menu screen
4>Enter the relevant PNC code from
the illustrations on my site (I'll label
them as soon as possible. For now,
use 22546A to try this out) in the PNC
field under the [Part Name Code Input]
section.
5>Press the PNC button on the toolbar
6>This will
show a screen telling you this transaxle is not services.
Press
OK
7>Another screen will come up showing you the model year
variations. This
will show you all applicable part numbers for each
year of that model code
(from step 2)
The few numbers I have double
checked against the Euro CAPS so far have come
up correct. This saves
people from having to go through the 130 MB download
for the Euro version, as
well as the hassles of changing the database. Many
thanks for Mark for
pointing this out. :)
I'm going to work on writing a basic How-to for
CAPS as well as labeling the
PNC diagrams I posted. If anyone else has
any other CAPS questions or
suggestions, let me know. I'm getting
pretty good with this thing.
Now if anyone can forward me the JDM CAPS, I
would be eternally grateful :D
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:39:58
EST
From:
RANDYGGG@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Question regarding my Stealth
Hi,
I am
replacing the ignition computer that sits behind the console where
the
stereo is. I have the DOHC engine, ES version, 5 speed manual. My
car
wouldn't start and the dealer wanted $1,250 for a new computer. (It
cranked
but never fired or tried to fire.) I towed the car home
instead and bought a
rebuilt one from a parts house. Car still
wouldn't start. I took the
rebuilt unit back and got a second rebuilt
one. Car started, but ran real
rough with very little power, and
"check engine" light on. I got about a
half a block away and turned
around and limped it home.
The parts house says the
computer is fine, the dealer is just trying to
sell me an expensive computer
when I really have some other problem with the
car. The dealer still
says I need a new computer, the reconditioned ones
almost never work and you
have to go through a bunch of them to find one that
does.
Any
suggestions? I don't know who to believe at this point. (Car has about
75,000 original miles.)
Thanks,
Randy Graves
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#670
***************************************