Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Sunday, November 11 2001   Volume 01 : Number 670




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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:51:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Top Speed

For a graphical look at speed in gears for stock 1st and 2nd gen AWD
with stock-sized tires take a look at my web page below. 200 mph is
"possible" according to the gearing for either gen car.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htm

Power is another matter. According to CarTest2000, at 200 mph about
400 HP would be needed to overcome aerodynamic drag, about 100 HP
would be needed for drivetrain losses, and about 60 HP for tire
friction. So that would be about 560 HP just to overcome "external"
losses. Some amount of HP would be needed to actually move the 4000
lb mass and overcome "internal" engine losses.

Matt Monett claims about 200 mph top speed with both his Stealths.
Matt's 1/4 mile times/speed suggest power in the range of 550-600+
HP.

Food for thought. :)

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- --- Thomas Jeys <tj@jeys.net> wrote:
> Well without taking into account weight, HP, or drag (so based
> simply off
> gear ratios and stock tire sizes), I think I once figured out that
> a first
> gen toped out (redline in 5th) at 196 and a second gen toped out
> (redline in
> 6th) at 225.  So if you had all the HP in the world and took some
> drastic
> steps with weight reduction, I suppose that those numbers are
> possible.
>
>  (RPM / 5th Gear Ratio) / Final Drive Ratio = RMP of the wheels
> (RPM-o-W)
>  RPM-o-W * Tire circumferance = Feet per minute (FPM)
>  (FPM / 5280 = Miles per minute) * 60 = Miles per hour
>
> assume a tire circumferance of 6.47ft
>
> 5-speed transmission; Rear End Ratio = 3.97:1
>
> 1st Gear     3.07
> 2nd Gear     1.74
> 3rd Gear     1.10
> 4th Gear     0.82
> 5th Gear     0.66
>
> Redline = 7000RPM
>
> 6-speed transmission; Rear End Ratio = 3.87:1
>
> 1st Gear     3.27
> 2nd Gear     1.90
> 3rd Gear     1.24
> 4th Gear     0.92
> 5th Gear     0.73
> 6th Gear     0.59
>
> Redline = 7000RPM
>
> -T.J.
> 92' 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:10:17 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed

But remember ... he has only 2 km to reach top speed in.  All of these
do not give the approximate distance of a stock car reaching top speed.
What is the distance for a stock car to reach 180 mph anyway?  I've only
been able to get through 4th gear and about 142 mph on the Interstates
around here and then hit a curve or hill.  I don't live out West or down
South so someone needs to make a sacrifice run for the list.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Living in hilly Pittsburgh, PA

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 11:51
 
For a graphical look at speed in gears for stock 1st and 2nd gen AWD
with stock-sized tires take a look at my web page below. 200 mph is
"possible" according to the gearing for either gen car.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htm

Power is another matter. According to CarTest2000, at 200 mph about
400 HP would be needed to overcome aerodynamic drag, about 100 HP
would be needed for drivetrain losses, and about 60 HP for tire
friction. So that would be about 560 HP just to overcome "external"
losses. Some amount of HP would be needed to actually move the 4000
lb mass and overcome "internal" engine losses.

Matt Monett claims about 200 mph top speed with both his Stealths.
Matt's 1/4 mile times/speed suggest power in the range of 550-600+
HP.

Food for thought. :)

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:12:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Top Speed

- --- Darren Schilberg <dschilberg@pobox.com> wrote:
> But remember ... he has only 2 km to reach top speed in.

The May 1998 Motor Trend had a top speed shootout article. The Dodge
Viper took the first place with 192.6 mph (450 HP, 3375 lb curb
weight). They used a 5-mile oval track wih 36º banks (Ford's Arizona
Proving Ground). I didn't notice how long it took them to reach this
speed - but I would bet at least one lap. They did have a 1-mile
acceleration test (1.6 km). The Viper again came in first with 173.3
mph in 30.1 seconds - drag strip starts. I'm guessing that most
"street" cars will not see capable top speed in 2 km. 

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:17:31 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Top Speed

Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed

.  Will pictures, video, write-ups be
> available afterwards?

Here's the site of the organisors & pics from last year

http://www.ggon.net/media/videos/ohakea/ohakea_videos.htm

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:25:09 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed

Talk to Matt Monet, he has some experience with open road top speed runs
in the desert I believe, he may be able to give you some insight. I too
would also LOVE to get a video of that!!!

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:09 PM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed

Top speed has lots to do with more than mods.  Wide tires cause more
drag on the road surface.  Wide front ends and tall radiator grills zap
efficiency.  Remember the Porsche is a flat 4 or a flat 6 and the
Skyline is an inline 6.  I don't think we will ever be a force to run
against cars like that for something like this.  Our 4,000 pounds are
much too hard to get going easily.

I believe stock top speed is in 5th gear (for 6th gear folks) and have
heard of moderate top speeds reaching 193 mph (305 kmh) but I don't know
what it entailed and most likely took more than 2 miles to reach that
speed.  Good luck regardless.  Just be safe.

Skinnier tires will help.  Closing all the windows will help.  Shifting
at max torque levels will help.  Will pictures, video, write-ups be
available afterwards?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Cooper
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 19:08
 
Here's a good one for the experts, what top speed can we expect from our
=  modified cars.The reason I am asking is because next weekend I  am
going =  on an organised speed run, about 2km along an airport runway
with both a =  police radar and police laser at the end to measure top
speed. Last =  years event was won by a Porsche 930 at 268k,  next was a
Nissan Skyline =  GTR at 256k. There will be all of Japans best at this
years event. I'm =  sure that my car should be faster than that but I
don't even know what =  it will do in 4th never mind 5th.What would you
experts expect.

 Mods, 13g turbos
 550 injectors
 ARC2
 Boost controller etc
 Best 1/4 12.009

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:44:20 -0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Getrag internal diagrams and PNC codes uploaded

Thanks to Oleg, we finally have some information on the transaxles we all
know and love.  I've uploaded the diagrams for the 5 and 6 spd AWD
transaxles to my website.  I have not yet started converting all the PNC
codes to Mitsu part numbers, but I figured even the diagrams alone would be
useful.   I'll start assembling webpages with the part numbers as I have
time.  Unfortunately, the transfer cases are still pretty limited in what we
can get numbers for.  This also does not mean that we can necessarily OBTAIN
these parts.  Only that we have diagrams and relevant numbers.  Hopefully we
can find a dealer in Europe who is willing to work with us and we can
FINALLY assemble some properly rebuilt transaxles.  The images are uploaded
at the address below.  Please email me with any comments or suggestions on
how the part numbers should be laid out.

www.xtreme3s.net/images/getrash

Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com

Low and behold....I actually beat Jeff Lucius to posting something on a
website ;)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:55:06 -0500
From: "Boris" <BPeguero@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: Parts for sale

Hello everybody,

I've got a few parts for sale, if anyone is interested, e-mail me
personally.  The following list of parts come from a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T
Twin Turbo.

Intake Manifold with plenum
$180.00

Throttle Body
$150.00

Brand new alternator (only used for 400 miles)
$150.00

HKS intercoolers (only 400 miles on them)
$695.00  ** Excellent Buy **

HKS Super Mega Flow Intake for VPC application (Buyer gets extra set of new
blue elements)
$200.00

Greddy Purple Top (Denso) 550cc fuel injectors
Set of 6 - $300.00  ** Excellent Buy **

I am in Massachusetts and the buyer will pay shipping.  I'll be happy to
provide a shipping quote to anyone who would like one.  Checks, money
orders, or paypal are fine.

Thank you,

Boris

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:54:12 -0500
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Getrag internal diagrams and PNC codes uploaded

Sweet, is there a Mitsubishi number for PNC 22632?  This is the 5 speed VCU
(should be a listing for an 18 spline and a 25 spline output shaft).  Also check
on all the synchros at your earliest convenience.  Question is, even if we get a
Mitusbishi PN, can they be ordered in the US, Europe, Japan, or anywhere?, time
will tell.

Thanks,
Joe G.

Jeff VanOrsdal wrote:

> Thanks to Oleg, we finally have some information on the transaxles we all
> know and love.  I've uploaded the diagrams for the 5 and 6 spd AWD
> transaxles to my website.  I have not yet started converting all the PNC
> codes to Mitsu part numbers, but I figured even the diagrams alone would be
> useful.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:32:34 -0600
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Getrag internal diagrams and PNC codes uploaded

It would appear that the euro Mitsu part numbers are in the US CAPS database
as well.

I tried it with serveral of the PNC numbers from Jeff's screen captures with
"Z16A" as my model.  I enter the PNC number in the PNC field and then click
the PNC button.  I get a message where the picture would normally show up
saying that the "components of this manual transmission are not serviced"
but if the pnc number is in the table to the right and I click OK, I get the
mitsu part number.

i.e...

MR166831 SHAFT , M/T CTR DIFF  ==18 SPLINE OUTPUT SHAFT
MR166750 GEAR & COVER, M/T CTR ==COMPLETE CENTER DIFF

Now if someone in Europe could check to see if the 5spd parts are available
to theh public.  I think that we already know that the 6spd parts ARE.

Good Work Jeff and Oleg!

Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT

I have not yet started converting all the PNC
>codes to Mitsu part numbers, but I figured even the diagrams alone would be
>useful.   I'll start assembling webpages with the part numbers as I have
>time.  Unfortunately, the transfer cases are still pretty limited in what
>we
>can get numbers for.  This also does not mean that we can necessarily
>OBTAIN
>these parts.  Only that we have diagrams and relevant numbers.  Hopefully
>we
>can find a dealer in Europe who is willing to work with us and we can
>FINALLY assemble some properly rebuilt transaxles.  The images are

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:02:40 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Top Speed

If you have enough power in a second gen to redline 6th gear, your doing
something crazy like 225 or so mph.  Matt from Dynamic Racing has claimed he
has done this in a 95 TT (modified of course)  My BPU car with stock turbos
topped out at 165mph in 5th  due to lack of power (boost was down) on a
totally flat surface.  I am sure with larger turbos as about 20-25psi, we
could see the end of the tach in 6th.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Cooper <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
To: Team3S <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: Team3S: Top Speed

> Hi
>
> Here's a good one for the experts, what top speed can we expect from our =
> modified cars.The reason I am asking is because next weekend I  am going =
> on an organised speed run, about 2km along an airport runway with both a =
> police radar and police laser at the end to measure top speed. Last =
> years event was won by a Porsche 930 at 268k,  next was a Nissan Skyline =
> GTR at 256k. There will be all of Japans best at this years event. I'm =
> sure that my car should be faster than that but I don't even know what =
> it will do in 4th never mind 5th.What would you experts expect.
>
> Mods, 13g turbos
> 550 injectors
> ARC2
> Boost controller etc
> Best 1/4 12.009
>
> Steve
>
> www://.nzgto.cjb.net

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:48:40 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: FW: Team3S: Top Speed

Just to add a little personal experience to this thread......  I took my
93VR4 out for a run tonight for any CT folks I was on 384  (wide mostly flat
highway)  Anyway ran on 291 to the connector hit 384 rolling at 80 in third.
Wound third out to 115 wound fourth out to 145-150 (wasnt watching the
speedo at this point) and then took fifth to 165 according to the speedo
then let off and gingerly applied the brakes.  Took a bit of road to get up
to that speed but I am only BPU....  Definately need the TEIN's in the car,
H&R Springs with stock ECS didn't inspire confidence at that speed. If I can
get a really cold night this week I will borrow a friend and his camcorder
and tape my next run.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
Sent: Sat 11/10/2001 12:10 PM
To: 'Team 3s'
Cc:
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed

But remember ... he has only 2 km to reach top speed in.  All of these
do not give the approximate distance of a stock car reaching top speed.
What is the distance for a stock car to reach 180 mph anyway?  I've only
been able to get through 4th gear and about 142 mph on the Interstates
around here and then hit a curve or hill.  I don't live out West or down
South so someone needs to make a sacrifice run for the list.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Living in hilly Pittsburgh, PA

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 11:51
 
For a graphical look at speed in gears for stock 1st and 2nd gen AWD
with stock-sized tires take a look at my web page below. 200 mph is
"possible" according to the gearing for either gen car.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htm
<http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-gears.htm

Power is another matter. According to CarTest2000, at 200 mph about
400 HP would be needed to overcome aerodynamic drag, about 100 HP
would be needed for drivetrain losses, and about 60 HP for tire
friction. So that would be about 560 HP just to overcome "external"
losses. Some amount of HP would be needed to actually move the 4000
lb mass and overcome "internal" engine losses.

Matt Monett claims about 200 mph top speed with both his Stealths.
Matt's 1/4 mile times/speed suggest power in the range of 550-600+
HP.

Food for thought. :)

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:53:14 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: Best Price on TEIN's

Well my "hookup" on the teins for my car fell through :(   Anyone know the
best price out there for these would prefer to get the HA's but will go with
the HR's if need be.  Let me know in private if it is a "friend of friend"
situation.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:06:43 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Top Speed

I believe top speed in any of our cars is going to be 5th gear.  Even
for the 6 gear guys.  Just because the gear is one number higher doesn't
mean it will go faster.  Sixth is geared lower than fifth and I think
the book says the stock car (TT) will do 168 mph and this is attained in
fifth gear.  I think this might also be supported by the shift range
(redline usually) that give a speed to shift out of for fifth gear but
nothing to shift out of for sixth ... not because there is no gear to
shift into but because you will not be able to redline in sixth gear
(drag limited usually).

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
4th gear at 142 mph so far but ran out of confident road quickly

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Shelat
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 18:03
 
If you have enough power in a second gen to redline 6th gear, your doing
something crazy like 225 or so mph.  Matt from Dynamic Racing has
claimed he
has done this in a 95 TT (modified of course)  My BPU car with stock
turbos
topped out at 165mph in 5th  due to lack of power (boost was down) on a
totally flat surface.  I am sure with larger turbos as about 20-25psi,
we
could see the end of the tach in 6th.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 02:11:11 -0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: More Getrag parts info, EU CAPS vs US CAPS

I got an interesting email earlier from Mark Wendlandt.  He took some of the
PNC codes from the diagrams I uploaded and fed them into the US CAPS
database.  The diagrams don't show up, but the part numbers do!  Here's the
step by step process for doing this in the US CAPS program.

1>Select Vehicle Name Code of 53H

2>Select Model of Z16A (4WD/4WS) or Z15A (4WD/No 4WS)

3>Double click on the Classification box and select your model from the
resulting menu screen

4>Enter the relevant PNC code from the illustrations on my site (I'll label
them as soon as possible. For now, use 22546A to try this out) in the PNC
field under the [Part Name Code Input] section.

5>Press the PNC button on the toolbar

6>This will show a screen telling you this transaxle is not services.  Press
OK

7>Another screen will come up showing you the model year variations.  This
will show you all applicable part numbers for each year of that model code
(from step 2)

The few numbers I have double checked against the Euro CAPS so far have come
up correct.  This saves people from having to go through the 130 MB download
for the Euro version, as well as the hassles of changing the database.  Many
thanks for Mark for pointing this out. :)

I'm going to work on writing a basic How-to for CAPS as well as labeling the
PNC diagrams I posted.  If anyone else has any other CAPS questions or
suggestions, let me know.  I'm getting pretty good with this thing.

Now if anyone can forward me the JDM CAPS, I would be eternally grateful :D

Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:39:58 EST
From: RANDYGGG@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Question regarding my Stealth

Hi,
    I am replacing the ignition computer that sits behind the console where
the stereo is.  I have the DOHC engine, ES version, 5 speed manual.  My car
wouldn't start and the dealer wanted $1,250 for a new computer. (It cranked
but never fired or tried to fire.)  I towed the car home instead and bought a
rebuilt one from a parts house.  Car still wouldn't start.  I took the
rebuilt unit back and got a second rebuilt one.  Car started, but ran real
rough with very little power, and "check engine" light on.  I got about a
half a block away and turned around and limped it home.
    The parts house says the computer is fine, the dealer is just trying to
sell me an expensive computer when I really have some other problem with the
car.  The dealer still says I need a new computer, the reconditioned ones
almost never work and you have to go through a bunch of them to find one that
does. 
Any suggestions?  I don't know who to believe at this point. (Car has about
75,000 original miles.)
Thanks,
Randy Graves

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #670
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