Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Friday, November 2 2001   Volume 01 : Number 663




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:51:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions

>>>> So... are the 550cc's too small for the GT357 turbos
>>>> to be boosting @ 1.3bar?

>> No, they are too small for 1.3 bar

550 injectors should not be too small for 1.3 bar. Here is why.

Conditions:
Ambient 14.5 psi and input air temp 110ºF means 0.0687 lb/CF air.
2.972L engine, 6000 RPM, 95% VE, and 2.3 density ratio means about
690 CFM of air.

690 CFM of air would be about 47 lb/min or about 2844 lb/hr.

At a 12:1 A/F, about 237 lb/hr of fuel would be needed (maybe a
little more to quell knock) or about 2490 cc/min. That would be only
415 cc/min per injector. 550 would be running at ~75% IDC, which is
fine.

George might want to look at fuel pressure to be sure it is correct
(1 psi over 43 psi for every psi of boost). An undersized pump or low
voltage to the pump could reduce fuel supply. The 550s should be fine
at 1.3 bar. As Roger indicated, the turbo itself makes almost no
difference.

Possibilities: The injectors used may not actually flow 550 cc/min or
there may be one bad injector causing a lean condition in one
cylinder and so making knock.

Are both cylinder banks' O2 sensors monitored?

Are both EGT's monitored?

Air and Fuel Flow calculators:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-air-fuel-flow.htm

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: "AmkreadGTO" <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>; "Team3S"
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 13:42:34 EST
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec Turbos

Just to add to the mix:

A couple of years ago I bought some turbos sightunseen from someone out in California. When they got here there was, to the best of my knowledge a 13G (staggered wheel), and the other was a 9B. Stranger to me was that the 13G was the front turbo. I had heard it is typically the rear turbo that fails (maybe being the reason for a 13G replacement during the life of an engine). Going from old post either on 3SI or this list I know I'm not the only person who found that he has a pair that is one 9 and one 13 (I'm pretty sure both thses came from the same engine).
Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:44:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Owens Trent <twice_blown@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?

Chuck,

I lurk on the list mostly soaking up as much knowledge
as possible from you and others around the world.

I don't know too much about road racing however, I
have been to the drag strip a few times. 

I have a 95 R/T TT with K&N & AVC-R.  Something that
you may want to consider on the long straights is
taking advantage of your Rev limiter.

First off I like to up shift around 6K RPMs.  The
torque curve has already begun to fall by this time
however, the next gear usually puts me into the "sweet
spot" of the Torque curve.  When I shift I have found
it best to take advantage of our rev limiter by not
lifting my foot off of the throttle and bouncing the
revs off the limiter.  I have seen this do a couple
things:

1.  Verified by the playback mode of the AVC-R, Boost
does not fall between shifts.  (During some runs the
boost did come down however, it was slight
approximately .1 - .2 psi.)  This keeps the turbos
spooled and ready for max output when you up shift.

2.  Energy stays in the flywheel.  This will give you
a little extra bump when you grab your next gear.  If
you have upgraded to a lightened flywheel this wont be
as noticeable.

All in all this technique usually nets me between .1
and .2 on my 1/4 ET.  I don't see why it couldn't help
you guys in the straights.

If anyone would like to add to or disagree with my
suggestion I welcome the opportunity to learn.

Trent

- --- "Willis, Charles E."
<cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org> wrote:
> One question I asked a while back that got no
> response comes to mind - what
> is the approximate torque curve for 2nd gen VR4
> totally stock?  I'd be happy
> to see one with K&N intake and 14.7 psi boost, but
> stock would help answer
> my question.  It has to do with when to shift on a
> road course.  My advanced
> instructors, all with NA cars, have always
> encouraged me to run the rpm up
> to redline before upshifting.  Someone else on the
> list(s) said our cars'
> maximum torque was much lower than 7000 rpm like
> 3000-5000.  That implies
> that I should be upshifting sooner.
>
> Running in higher gears is a technique to carry more
> momentum through
> corners, but I am asking specifically about
> launching out onto a long
> straight.  Maybe you drag racers can suggest
> something.
>
> Chuck Willis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 13:12:59 -0600
From: RJM <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drag Racing with 700 HP

I can tell you I know some 1986=87 turbo buick  "street cars" that would mess up your score sheet Charles (in a straight line of course), and, if you really want to talk modified,  a
couple twin turbo buicks.   P.S.  they all have automatic transmissions too.  It's all about how much you want to spend and like any sport, how much you want to practice.
Bob

roger.gerl@bluewin.ch wrote:

> > Needless to say my car is heavly modified, producing around 700 HP
> > at the crank,  however I have no trouble at all beating all of
> > these cars handily in a quarter mile.  I have yet to be beaten by a
> > "street car".  I believe our cars are capable of holding there own
> > against any street car when properly modified.  Regards  Charles
>
> Also needless to to say "show us the facts, dyno (if available) and mods". How do you know yo uare runnign 700hp on the crank ? Timeslips available ?? What is done to the ignition ?
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:14:21 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: car vs car vs car (was: Are our cars really that fast ?)

Sounds like a bait and switch here!
 
I'd say most of the TT's could do in the Spyder with a little more experience on the track.
The RX7, now that's another story, especially at SP.

Sears point was hard to judge how well one was actually doing. The slower cars Really slowed you down. Jim(RT TT) was 3-5 seconds faster than me(NA) in the limited times we got, yet I was able to get way out ahead because I took advantage of a few slow pokes at the right time.

Perhaps next time we will feel ok with group 4, all passing all the time, where traffic is less confining. 

Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:04 PM
To: Jim Berry
Cc: Merritt; Sam Shelat; Zobel, Kurt; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?

Not -that- much of one...all things considered.

Next time yer up, I think that'd be fun.  *g*

Im thinking I can break the 7 into mid-high 1:20s with some work.  3
weekends ago I was 1:31..and then I discovered a disconnected sway bar
link in the rear.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Jim Berry wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> >
> > 1) The spyder ran away from all the 3S's I was near..but perhaps they
> > werent going all out on a new track..thats very fair to say.
>
> Not at Thunderhill --- it is more of a horsepower track than Sears Point
> so you seemed to be at a disadvantage there.
>
> As to Sears Point I'd have to see some times to compare --- we didn't
> get to run with each other when I started to feel more comfortable with
> the track layout. I feel with a few more sessions the Spyder would
> not be able to out pace my Stealth ---- I'll have to figure out how to get
> back up there and prove my point. If you'd get a Hot Lap timer we could
> at least compare times.
>
>         Jim berry

Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:41:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: More raceday stuff online.

http://www.speedtoys.com/pics/10_27_28/

All: Send me your photos and videos once you have digitized em..to place
online.

Thanks!

Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 20:41:23 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Team3S: Used Turbos

For anyone interested, I've put my original turbos on ebay.  They had 30K
mi. prior to replacing them with 13g's.  Aside from damaging the exhaust
manifold flange on the front turbo when removing them, they are in perfect
condition.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 20:59:55 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Team3S: Comparing Performance

Unless I missed it, know one has mentioned a relevant article in the March
92 issue of Road and Track.  They asked Danny Sullivan to generate the best
lap time possible in each of the current performance cars at Willow Springs.
The results were impressive and as usual, the writers had little good to say
about our cars, meanwhile the results speak louder than the subjective
editors.

Miata - 1:14.96
MR-2 - 1:12.54
Lotus Elan - 1:10.22
300ZX Turbo - 1:08.07
Corvette LT1 - 1:07.36
Acura NSX - 1:07.14
3000GT VR4 - 1:06.95 (not bad for a stock 1st gen.)
911 Turbo - 1:05.73
Mazda RX-7 - 1:05.64

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:53:38 -0800
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Comparing Performance

Anyone have picts of the article scanned? Or better yet, a spare issue
for me  :)

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of bdtrent
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:00 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Comparing Performance

Unless I missed it, know one has mentioned a relevant article in the
March 92 issue of Road and Track.  They asked Danny Sullivan to generate
the best lap time possible in each of the current performance cars at
Willow Springs. The results were impressive and as usual, the writers
had little good to say about our cars, meanwhile the results speak
louder than the subjective editors.

Miata - 1:14.96
MR-2 - 1:12.54
Lotus Elan - 1:10.22
300ZX Turbo - 1:08.07
Corvette LT1 - 1:07.36
Acura NSX - 1:07.14
3000GT VR4 - 1:06.95 (not bad for a stock 1st gen.)
911 Turbo - 1:05.73
Mazda RX-7 - 1:05.64

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:42:35 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: Replacing O2 Sensors

OK so I am going to try and replace the O2 sensors on my lady this weekend,
Anyone know where I can get the O2 socket (other than the dealer) I really
do not want to break anything.   Also could someone with a 92-93 send me a
pic of the top of their throttle body?  I am  most concerned with the Bypass
port area

Thanks
Russ

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 12:28:16 -0500
From: Curtis McConnel <CMcConnel@Pulte.com>
Subject: Team3S: Upgrade Rods with Pistons?

I am looking to upgrade my pistons to the JE high silicon 2618 alloys with
the cylinder bored .020 over. Do I need to upgrade my rods also? I've heard
the stock rods are good rods and now is the time if they need to be
replaced. I'm looking to run 18 psi daily and 20 at the track. I have
supporting mods: 550 injectors, Supra fuel pump, ARC II, 17g turbos, sperco
water injection etc.. The last thing I want is to put it back together and
blow a rod.

Curtis
1995 Vr-4 Spyder

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #663
***************************************