Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, November 1 2001
Volume 01 : Number
662
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:16:48 -0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand - A correction
I've been
out of town on business for the last two weeks. Hopefully I can
do it
when I get home next week.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Wednesday,
October 31, 2001 1:56 PM
To:
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand -
A
correction
Has anyone directly compared 1st gen and 2nd gen rods
yet?
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:26:11
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Cold tranny shifts hard
If you're sure the clutch is disengaging,
then it sounds like they did a swap vs rebuild, and the synchros are still
bad. Why was it rebuilt? Did they specify new synchros were
used?
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Stanton
[mailto:tt007ken@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:51 AM
To:
Team3S Stealth
Subject: Team3S: Cold tranny shifts hard
Hey everyone
-
I recently had my 6-speed tranny rebuilt, and now its back in
and
running. But, I have a real real bad problem with it when its
cold. It
won't shift worth a crap. I mean, 2nd gear grunts at me
a little bit,
3rd, 4th, 5th are all notchy, and reverse is nearly
impossible!
It was rebuilt by M&S Recycling, and I have Redline fluid
in 'er (2qts
MT90, 1qt MTL mix) in it. I don't think the fluid is low,
I put almost
all 3 qts into it. I will check the level in today to be
sure though.
Any ideas?
Thanks!!!
Ken Stanton
Organizer -
3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates
007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
RPS Stage II,
6-speed transmission (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3
Stereo
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:39:16
-0600
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Tour light
Just drive 5,052 miles in the car. Somewhere last
night, the Tour light on
the dash went out. Sport still lights up when
pressed and seems to be
functioning. Tour light burnt
out?
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:54:41
-0600
From: "Nemisis" <
nemisis@vci.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Question about our paint!
Hey everyone,
I just checked in at my
body shop to see how the painting of my car was
going (Rear and Front
bumpers) and they seem to be being very thourough The
guy was griping about
70 bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but anyway.
They said that my paint
looked like a single step? (IE not clear coat?) I
was wanting to confirm if
that was true. and also what is the paint code for
a Red 95' 3000GT VR-4
Spyder? I thought it odd that we didnt have a clear
coat though? or are they
way off?
Thanks,
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:53:47
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Question about our paint!
They may be on point on that, I
believe most solid colors were a single
stage enamel as where the metallics
were a multistage.... I could be wrong
though
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Nemisis [SMTP:nemisis@vci.net]
> Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:55 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S:
Question about our paint!
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I just
checked in at my body shop to see how the painting of my car was
> going
(Rear and Front bumpers) and they seem to be being very thourough
>
The
> guy was griping about 70 bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but
anyway.
> They said that my paint looked like a single step? (IE not clear
coat?) I
> was wanting to confirm if that was true. and also what is the
paint code
> for
> a Red 95' 3000GT VR-4 Spyder? I thought it odd
that we didnt have a clear
> coat though? or are they way off?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:57:35
-0600
From: John DeVito <
johndevito@ProtectionOne.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Question about our paint!
I don't know how much of a help
this is but i know for a fact (ust had mine
painted on friday) that 19
stealths DO have a cleat coat. However, I also
know that at some point,
they started to integrate the clearcoat into the
final coat of paint, to help
avoid oxidation.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Furman,
Russell [mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001
1:54 PM
To: 'Nemisis'; 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Question about our
paint!
They may be on point on that, I believe most solid colors were a
single
stage enamel as where the metallics were a multistage.... I
could be wrong
though
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Nemisis [SMTP:nemisis@vci.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:55
PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Question about our paint!
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I just checked in at my body shop to see
how the painting of my car was
> going (Rear and Front bumpers) and they
seem to be being very thourough
> The
> guy was griping about 70
bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but anyway.
> They said that my
paint looked like a single step? (IE not clear coat?) I
> was wanting to
confirm if that was true. and also what is the paint code
> for
> a
Red 95' 3000GT VR-4 Spyder? I thought it odd that we didnt have a clear
>
coat though? or are they way off?
>
> Thanks,
>
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:59:38
-0600
From: John DeVito <
johndevito@ProtectionOne.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Question about our paint!
heh sorry 19 should be 91
:-)
- -----Original Message-----
From: John DeVito
[mailto:johndevito@ProtectionOne.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:58
PM
To: 'Furman, Russell'; 'Nemisis'; 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Question about our paint!
I don't know how much of a help this is but i
know for a fact (ust had mine
painted on friday) that 19 stealths DO have a
cleat coat. However, I also
know that at some point, they started to
integrate the clearcoat into the
final coat of paint, to help avoid
oxidation.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Furman, Russell
[mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:54
PM
To: 'Nemisis'; 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Question about our
paint!
They may be on point on that, I believe most solid colors were a
single
stage enamel as where the metallics were a multistage.... I
could be wrong
though
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Nemisis [SMTP:nemisis@vci.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:55
PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Question about our paint!
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I just checked in at my body shop to see
how the painting of my car was
> going (Rear and Front bumpers) and they
seem to be being very thourough
> The
> guy was griping about 70
bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but anyway.
> They said that my
paint looked like a single step? (IE not clear coat?) I
> was wanting to
confirm if that was true. and also what is the paint code
> for
> a
Red 95' 3000GT VR-4 Spyder? I thought it odd that we didnt have a clear
>
coat though? or are they way off?
>
> Thanks,
>
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:58:34
-0800
From: Rick Pierce <
piercera@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Question about our paint!
Supposedly, reality, Firestorm/Caracas
Red is the only color that is not clear
coated. Correct me if I'm wrong
anyone - but I know mine is not and it is
original
paint.
Rick
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nemisis"
<
nemisis@vci.net>
To: "Team3S"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Question about our
paint!
> Hey everyone,
>
> I just checked in at my
body shop to see how the painting of my car was
> going (Rear and Front
bumpers) and they seem to be being very thourough The
> guy was griping
about 70 bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but anyway.
> They said
that my paint looked like a single step? (IE not clear coat?) I
> was
wanting to confirm if that was true. and also what is the paint code for
>
a Red 95' 3000GT VR-4 Spyder? I thought it odd that we didnt have a
clear
> coat though? or are they way off?
>
> Thanks,
>
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:04:39
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Question about our paint!
This has been talked about several hundred
times ---- the cars have what
they called a one step clear coat. The cars
were painted with a paint that
allowed the pigment to settle out after being
sprayed to form a pigment
layer and an almost clear layer so in effect it
has a fake clearcoat.
I don't think that applies to the white --- it's all in
the cd version of
the
manual.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Nemisis <
nemisis@vci.net>
To: Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Question about our
paint!
> Hey everyone,
>
> I just checked in at my
body shop to see how the painting of my car was
> going (Rear and Front
bumpers) and they seem to be being very thourough The
> guy was griping
about 70 bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but anyway.
> They said
that my paint looked like a single step? (IE not clear coat?) I
> was
wanting to confirm if that was true. and also what is the paint code for
>
a Red 95' 3000GT VR-4 Spyder? I thought it odd that we didnt have a
clear
> coat though? or are they way off?
>
> Thanks,
>
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:18:20
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Question about our paint!
and the paint code (to look up specs)
is on the aluminized panel on the firewall.
maybe like 'EXT w75a' or
similar.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry
[mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 2:05 PM
To:
Nemisis; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question about our paint!
This
has been talked about several hundred times ---- the cars have what
they
called a one step clear coat. The cars were painted with a paint that
allowed
the pigment to settle out after being sprayed to form a pigment
layer and an
almost clear layer so in effect it has a fake clearcoat.
I don't think that
applies to the white --- it's all in the cd version of
the
manual.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Nemisis <
nemisis@vci.net>
To: Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Question about our
paint!
> Hey everyone,
>
> I just checked in at my body
shop to see how the painting of my car was
> going (Rear and Front
bumpers) and they seem to be being very thourough The
> guy was griping
about 70 bolts holding the front bumper up LOL but anyway.
> They said
that my paint looked like a single step? (IE not clear coat?) I
> was
wanting to confirm if that was true. and also what is the paint code for
>
a Red 95' 3000GT VR-4 Spyder? I thought it odd that we didnt have a
clear
> coat though? or are they way off?
>
> Thanks,
>
Jon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:49:13
-0500
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tour light
Could be -
My car did that... it went out for one
driving session. Came back on the next,
or maybe it was the time after, but
it worked! Give it a bit, if no luck, its
the bulb most
likely!
Ken
Desert Fox wrote:
> Just drive 5,052 miles
in the car. Somewhere last night, the Tour light on
> the dash went out.
Sport still lights up when pressed and seems to be
> functioning. Tour
light burnt out?
>
> Paul/.
> 95 black 3000GT VR-4
> 98
VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
> formerly reasonable and prudent
Ken
Stanton
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T
TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R,
Improved Precats
Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
6-speed
transmission (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3 Stereo
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:59:43
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions
> Th log was done with the
pocketlogger. How do I get
> the file stored in the Palm to a e-file
to email u??
> Hotsync it my computer? Then what? I'll try to
figure
> it out when I get home tonight...
You can save the file as
a CSV (or at least there is a converter somewhere)
and send it to me (us) or
upload it to somewhere so some of us can access
it. I wonder if the rpm
fluctuates liek on other datalogs I have seen from
the
pocketlogger.
> No, I dont have a fuel pressure gauge in the car..
on
> a side note, with 50/50 mix of 100oct & 91oct fuel, I
> get
ZERO knock in the same condition...
Do yo ualready have the Accel coils
in the car ? Or what do you run ignition
wise ?
> Also, I usually
only log:
> -RPM
> -Throttle Pos
> -Knock
> -O2
>
-IDC
> -Timing
Perfect :)
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:18:06
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Datalogging questions
> > Th log was done with the
pocketlogger. How do I
> get
> > the file stored in the
Palm to a e-file to email
> u??
> > Hotsync it my computer? Then
what? I'll try to
> figure
> > it out when I get home
tonight...
>
> You can save the file as a CSV (or at least there
is
> a converter somewhere)
> and send it to me (us) or upload it to
somewhere so
> some of us can access
> it. I wonder if the rpm
fluctuates liek on other
> datalogs I have seen from
> the
pocketlogger.
I'll try to upload it into my computer
tonight...
> > No, I dont have a fuel pressure gauge in the
car..
> on
> > a side note, with 50/50 mix of 100oct &
91oct
> fuel, I
> > get ZERO knock in the same
condition...
>
> Do yo ualready have the Accel coils in the car ?
Or
> what do you run ignition
> wise ?
No, remember I had
blow by problems? Iridiums didn't
work. New stock coils didn't work.
Coppers didn't
work. Coppers + HKS Ign Amp solved the problem~
=)
Best,
George
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:19:06
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Datalogging questions
> > Th log was done with the
pocketlogger. How do I
> get
> > the file stored in the
Palm to a e-file to email
> u??
> > Hotsync it my computer? Then
what? I'll try to
> figure
> > it out when I get home
tonight...
>
> You can save the file as a CSV (or at least there
is
> a converter somewhere)
> and send it to me (us) or upload it to
somewhere so
> some of us can access
> it. I wonder if the rpm
fluctuates liek on other
> datalogs I have seen from
> the
pocketlogger.
I'll try to upload it into my computer
tonight...
> > No, I dont have a fuel pressure gauge in the
car..
> on
> > a side note, with 50/50 mix of 100oct &
91oct
> fuel, I
> > get ZERO knock in the same
condition...
>
> Do yo ualready have the Accel coils in the car ?
Or
> what do you run ignition
> wise ?
No, remember I had
blow by problems? Iridiums didn't
work. New stock coils didn't work.
Coppers didn't
work. Coppers + HKS Ign Amp solved the problem~
=)
Best,
George
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:05:18
-0700
From: Michael Crisfield <
mcrisfield@ftmcdowell.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
My friend Paul owns a 86 Porsche 911 Turbo (AWD),
has done a little
autocross, owned several Porsches, and seems to be a
competent driver. When
I spoke with him about purchasing a
Stealth/3000GT TT he told me that back
in 1991 his friend bought a brand new
1991 Dodge Stealth TT. His friend
couldn't drive a stick yet and the
dealership was quite far from his house
so he asked Paul to fly (train, bus,
I can't remember) there and drive it
back with him. Paul warned me that
he didn't like the way it handled.
From what I've read and seen at
Dynamic Racing's web site (Matt's 11
sec Stealth), I believe that you could
tune a 3000GT TT to beat a Corvette,
BMW, or Porsche in a straight line but
could you out handle them? If not
then would reducing weight
significantly (like what Geoff's doing), help you
out handle those
aforementioned cars or are they just engineered so much
better that no amount
of weight reduction or suspension modification will
let you meet or beat them
through the turns? I'm curious myself. I want to
believe that a
3000GT TT can handle as well as M3 or a Porsche but is that
really
true? Geoff how do the 3000GTs you've driven compare to your RX7?
Do
you think weight reduction will help?
Thanks,
Michael
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:35 AM
To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Road Racing
The question that seems to be asked is: Are we
the king of the hill ?
Of course not, in stock form the car is quite capable,
in heavily
form it is quite exceptional --- however --- it is not a Mclaren
or a
Ferrari F60. If you spent enough time and money you could
probably
get it into the Ferrari Challange area of performance.
The
car was designed as a heavy 4 seat [ almost ] touring car, not a
world class
supercar. Horse power seems to be fairly easy to come by,
spend $15 to 20
large with the right people and you have a 600+ hp car.
Are you a world
beater --- not yet. Take 1000+ pounds out of the car as
Geoff has started to
do ---- gut it, replace the glass with plastic, replace
anything you can with
carbon fiber [ doors, hood, hatch drive shaft etc ].
And on and on and on
---- wait, maybe a tube frame with carbon fiber --
well you can see where
that's going !!!
In short, bring money and you can be anything you want.
Maybe the
answer, as Darren so ineloquently put it, is, I should just stay 1
group
down from where I think I belong. I have some shots of a Viper and a
Z06 terrorizing the group 3 crowd --- I have no idea what they were
doing in our group other than having fun passing
people.
Jim
Berry having fun is worth 90% of the
final grade.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:16:44
-0800
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Road Racing
Weight as you have mentioned is the biggest factor with our
cars,
however the AWD/AWS does give us a handling advantage over those
cars
that don't have this. Try racing any rear drive in the rain.
The
difference is in and out of the corners and being a turbo car. Turbo
=
lag over normally aspirated engines, balance this with a lot more
weight
in and out of the corners and you have a compounded problem on
shorter
slower circuits. Longer circuits could see much of the advantage back
if
you don't have a power disadvantage. Generally if you are racing in
the
same league cars that weight a lot more are allowed to increase
power
over the lighter cars to make thing more =. Lots of the posts
compare
cars, but this is really meaningless since you can alter almost any
car
in the domains of power, handling, braking, etc. not to mention
the
already mentioned driver issue which is just one more factor. Just
look
at any organized, race division. Some may recall in the SCCA trans
am
series some time ago how the Audi Quattros kicked every
other
manufacturers **t and they kept adding weight on those cars and
still
were superios some due to Stuckey's driving ability but
mostly
superiority in traction. Also recall that he literally sucked at
the
beginning of the season coming to terms with the throttle in
the
corners. So many factors......
Michael Crisfield wrote:
>
> My friend Paul owns a
86 Porsche 911 Turbo (AWD), has done a little
> autocross, owned several
Porsches, and seems to be a competent driver. When
> I spoke with
him about purchasing a Stealth/3000GT TT he told me that back
> in 1991
his friend bought a brand new 1991 Dodge Stealth TT. His friend
>
couldn't drive a stick yet and the dealership was quite far from his
house
> so he asked Paul to fly (train, bus, I can't remember) there and
drive it
> back with him. Paul warned me that he didn't like the way
it handled.
>
>
From what I've read and seen at Dynamic Racing's web site (Matt's 11
> sec
Stealth), I believe that you could tune a 3000GT TT to beat a Corvette,
>
BMW, or Porsche in a straight line but could you out handle them? If
not
> then would reducing weight significantly (like what Geoff's doing),
help you
> out handle those aforementioned cars or are they just
engineered so much
> better that no amount of weight reduction or
suspension modification will
> let you meet or beat them through the
turns? I'm curious myself. I want to
> believe that a 3000GT
TT can handle as well as M3 or a Porsche but is that
> really true?
Geoff how do the 3000GTs you've driven compare to your RX7?
> Do you think
weight reduction will help?
>
>
Thanks,
>
Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Berry
[mailto:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:35
AM
> To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Road Racing
>
> The question that seems to be
asked is: Are we the king of the hill ?
> Of course not, in stock form the
car is quite capable, in heavily
> form it is quite exceptional ---
however --- it is not a Mclaren or a
> Ferrari F60. If you spent enough
time and money you could probably
> get it into the Ferrari Challange area
of performance.
>
> The car was designed as a heavy 4 seat [ almost
] touring car, not a
> world class supercar. Horse power seems to be
fairly easy to come by,
> spend $15 to 20 large with the right people and
you have a 600+ hp car.
> Are you a world beater --- not yet. Take 1000+
pounds out of the car as
> Geoff has started to do ---- gut it, replace
the glass with plastic, replace
> anything you can with carbon fiber [
doors, hood, hatch drive shaft etc ].
> And on and on and on ---- wait,
maybe a tube frame with carbon fiber --
> well you can see where that's
going !!!
>
> In short, bring money and you can be anything you
want. Maybe the
> answer, as Darren so ineloquently put it, is, I should
just stay 1 group
> down from where I think I belong. I have some shots of
a Viper and a
> Z06 terrorizing the group 3 crowd --- I have no idea what
they were
> doing in our group other than having fun passing
people.
>
> Jim
Berry having fun is worth 90% of the
final grade.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:38:26
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Road Racing
Correct, its unfair to base it all on weight, but
seriously..it takes an
incredible amount of bucks and work to overcome
1000-1500lbs in excess
weight, that AWD and AWS just doesnt fully make up
for.
Skidpad is THE most difficult one to overcome with so much mass, and
its
the most important IMHO.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Richard
wrote:
> Weight as you have mentioned is the biggest factor with our
cars,
> however the AWD/AWS does give us a handling advantage over those
cars
> that don't have this. Try racing any rear drive in the rain.
The
> difference is in and out of the corners and being a turbo car. Turbo
=
> lag over normally aspirated engines, balance this with a lot more
weight
> in and out of the corners and you have a compounded problem on
shorter
> slower circuits. Longer circuits could see much of the advantage
back if
> you don't have a power disadvantage. Generally if you are racing
in the
> same league cars that weight a lot more are allowed to increase
power
> over the lighter cars to make thing more =. Lots of the posts
compare
> cars, but this is really meaningless since you can alter almost
any car
> in the domains of power, handling, braking, etc. not to mention
the
> already mentioned driver issue which is just one more factor. Just
look
> at any organized, race division. Some may recall in the SCCA trans
am
> series some time ago how the Audi Quattros kicked every other
>
manufacturers **t and they kept adding weight on those cars and still
>
were superios some due to Stuckey's driving ability but mostly
>
superiority in traction. Also recall that he literally sucked at the
>
beginning of the season coming to terms with the throttle in the
>
corners. So many factors......
>
> Michael Crisfield
wrote:
> >
>
> My friend Paul owns a 86
Porsche 911 Turbo (AWD), has done a little
> > autocross, owned several
Porsches, and seems to be a competent driver. When
> > I spoke
with him about purchasing a Stealth/3000GT TT he told me that back
> >
in 1991 his friend bought a brand new 1991 Dodge Stealth TT. His
friend
> > couldn't drive a stick yet and the dealership was quite far
from his house
> > so he asked Paul to fly (train, bus, I can't
remember) there and drive it
> > back with him. Paul warned me
that he didn't like the way it handled.
> >
>
> From what I've read and
seen at Dynamic Racing's web site (Matt's 11
> > sec Stealth), I
believe that you could tune a 3000GT TT to beat a Corvette,
> > BMW, or
Porsche in a straight line but could you out handle them? If not
>
> then would reducing weight significantly (like what Geoff's doing), help
you
> > out handle those aforementioned cars or are they just
engineered so much
> > better that no amount of weight reduction or
suspension modification will
> > let you meet or beat them through the
turns? I'm curious myself. I want to
> > believe that a
3000GT TT can handle as well as M3 or a Porsche but is that
> > really
true? Geoff how do the 3000GTs you've driven compare to your RX7?
>
> Do you think weight reduction will help?
> >
> >
Thanks,
> >
Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31,
2001 9:35 AM
> > To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Road Racing
> >
> > The question that
seems to be asked is: Are we the king of the hill ?
> > Of course not,
in stock form the car is quite capable, in heavily
> > form it is quite
exceptional --- however --- it is not a Mclaren or a
> > Ferrari F60.
If you spent enough time and money you could probably
> > get it into
the Ferrari Challange area of performance.
> >
> > The car
was designed as a heavy 4 seat [ almost ] touring car, not a
> > world
class supercar. Horse power seems to be fairly easy to come by,
> >
spend $15 to 20 large with the right people and you have a 600+ hp car.
>
> Are you a world beater --- not yet. Take 1000+ pounds out of the car
as
> > Geoff has started to do ---- gut it, replace the glass with
plastic, replace
> > anything you can with carbon fiber [ doors, hood,
hatch drive shaft etc ].
> > And on and on and on ---- wait, maybe a
tube frame with carbon fiber --
> > well you can see where that's going
!!!
> >
> > In short, bring money and you can be anything you
want. Maybe the
> > answer, as Darren so ineloquently put it, is, I
should just stay 1 group
> > down from where I think I belong. I have
some shots of a Viper and a
> > Z06 terrorizing the group 3 crowd --- I
have no idea what they were
> > doing in our group other than having
fun passing people.
> >
>
> Jim
Berry having fun is worth 90% of the
final grade.
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:02:55
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
> From what I've read and seen at Dynamic
Racing's web
> site (Matt's 11 sec Stealth), I believe that you
>
could tune a 3000GT TT to beat a Corvette, BMW, or
> Porsche in a straight
line but could you out handle
> them?
I think overall a TT 3/S car
makes it easier for the average driver to drive
faster/quicker with more
confidence. The extra weight isn't a help, but for
most driving
situations a 3/S is a very capable car. At the limit they can
become a
handful to control, but as a street car they are
incredibly
capable.
If I was going to drive a car on-track with the
turbo/AWD philosophy I'd
probably pick an Eclipse/Talon/Laser AWD to save
about 500 pounds up-front
and try to increase the power and handling of that
platform. Its also much*
easier to get replacement parts for those than
for 3/S (especially the
dreaded tranny parts).
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:04:05
+0700
From: "CV. DUTA KARYA TEKNIK" <
dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: DETONATION
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:29:04 -0700
(PDT)
> From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: DETONATION
>
> 1) Are you measuring knock with
a datalogger (you don't state what
> year car you have) or just going by
sound? I have heard noise I
> thought was knock yet no knock on my
datalogger ('92 Stealth TT). I
> have also seen knock on the datalogger
but did not hear it. When I
> have heard knock the datalogger showed it
was severe and also
> hampered performance (reduced timing).
I'm
measuring knock without datalogger just going by sound whenever the
car's
running at speed 60 mph and above.
> 2) When you checked the plug gap,
did you look for the telltale signs
> of true, severe detonation, very
small pieces of melted piston on
> your plugs or plug damage? You may need
a magnifying lens for this.
I can see it by magnifying lens in which the
color of plug is light brown
and the electrode there is very small pieces
melted thing ( I donot know it
is piston or another metal or electrode
itself)
> Common spark plug conditions:
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-sparkchart.htm>
>
3) Are you measuring fuel pressure? This is a sure way to confirm or
>
eliminate this type of problem with the pump. Also inspect the hard
> and
soft fuel lines for any damage (bends, kinks, etc.). You cleaned
> the
fuel filter, not replaced it?
I have replaced the fuel filter with new
one. I'm not measuring fuel
pressure since I donot have fuel pressure test
kit. I've inspected fuel
lines no bends, kinks, etc.
What about hot air in
the engine compartment in which it comes from radiator
goes to air filter
then to combustion chamber. Should I modify air snorkle
to get fresh air from
outside engine compartment
> Fuel pressure sensor install:
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fp_install.htm>
>
Fuel pump R&R:
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fuelpump.htm>
>
Fuel pump upgrade info:
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htm>
>
I am not a big fan of just replacing parts to see if that fixes
>
something, unless that is an obviously cheap and easy course.
>
>
Verify that you really have knock with a datalogger - easy on
> 1991-1993
models, possible by inference from timing change in 1996+
> models,
nothing for 1994-5 models at the moment.
>
> Test the pump to see if
it is working OK - either install a fuel
> pressure sensor or remove the
pump and have RC Engineering flow test
> it.
>
> Also reduce
boost until problems go away. You do not state at what
> boost levels you
are running at and how you are measuring and
> controlling
boost.
>
> Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:44:54
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Where do you find the weaknesses
of the car as a racing platform? Is it
braking, power, weight or all of
the above? Where do the Vipers beat you-on
the straights and turns or
just straights where you can never catch up? If
its just power you
lack, about $5000 will buy about 450 AWHP if spent
correctly.
This will mean you have to keep an eye on things like EGT and
run race gas,
but thats the cost of going fast in a turbo car. A fully race
prepped
motor will prob give you about that much power at a low 18psi. A
set of
real coil over/struts like Tein and sway bars and strut bars and some
weight
reduction will also have to follow. As a totally stock car, the
VR-4
can't be expected to come out on top compared to cars developed
expressly
for and through racing like the Porsche, Vette, Viper. Just
get under one
of these cars and it will make ours look like passenger
vehicles in
comparison. The fact that you are even staying competitive
says a lot for
the car and your driving skills. On the other hand, I
had a Transam a few
years back, and it had hardly more of a suspension
technology then my 80s
cutlass, yet it could be made to pull 1g easily with
about $4000 in
suspension parts. I think you will have to put
about $15,000 worth of
power producing, suspension and brake enhancing, and
weight reduction parts
to make our cars equal to these race bred
vehicles. If I had the deep
pockets, with all the knowledge I have
gained in the last few years on the
VR-4, I am certain it could outperform
any of the afformentioned vehicles
for half their value.
Sam
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Cc:
Zobel, Kurt <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>;
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our cars really
that fast?
>>Well..then nobody's racing then, no problems.
And..yes, there are
>>limitations. When I pick a car to race, the
limitation that bans me from
>>events for 5 years if I kock someone out
of -my- line, goes away. Thats a
>>huge limitation in how you,
and the others are driving.
>>
>Very true. In real racing, you
can tap the guy in front, muscle your way
>through, go off the line, swap
a little paint, and get into some real car
>to car dicing. It's a
completely different sport from what we do, and the
>classes you spoke
about become very important, because the cars are
more
>equal.
>
>In our more "gentleman" style of open track,
the best we can do is catch up
>and politely wait for a point. Of course,
we can wait for the point while
>lurking 6 in off their bumper, but that's
about all we can do if the guy
>does not want to move
over.
>
>Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:45:41
-0500
From: Rick <
melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Transfer case leak???
Guys,
Does the transfer case leak
if over full as the trany?I think I might
have over filled mine (I Hope) as
it is now leaking.anyone had this
happen?
Thanks,
RICK '92 R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:52:45
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Rich,
Sounds like your problem
is power--with our cars its not really a
problem--turbo swap is the
answer. Seriously, our stock 9b turbos suck at
the top end. I
have drag raced many vettes and I hardly ever lose to one.
However, take it
on the highway and get to speeds above 110mph, and its a
whole different
animal. Just trying to run one down from 80mph on up is
pretty
futile. Our cars are great at accelerating from a dead stop and
through
2nd gear, but third is a joke cause our turbos run out of steam. If
you
havn't had the opportunity, drive someones car with even a 13g turbo
in
it---its like night and day in third and fourth gear.
Sam
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
Volthause <
volt@vozuluzov.com>;
3000GT <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really
that fast?
>>You want to go faster and keep up with the big
boys? Work on the driver.
>>You ask if your car can keep up with
other cars, I ask if the driver can
>>keep up with the other
drivers.
>>
>That's a real cute, pat answer. Thanks for sharing
that wonderful insight.
>Maybe I should attend driver
school!
>
>But it begs the question about cars. It's one thing to
work on the entry
>and exits, but it's quite another to watch a Z08 or a
Viper accelerate away
>from you down the straight, after you just spent
six corners running it
>down. I just want my hardware to be the best it
can be for the money I have
>to spend. That was my
question.
>
>By the way, I think it's Carroll Smith, not Carol
Smith. I could be wrong,
>but one's a guy, one's a
girl.
>
>Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:12:45
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tour light
Burnt out--its the smaller bulb back there and you
will only get it at the
dealership. Pop the outside frame off (held on
tight by clips) remove the
screws holding in the gauge cluster and pull it
out. The bulbs twist out
from the back of the cluster
pod.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
To: Team 3S
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Tour
light
>Just drive 5,052 miles in the car. Somewhere last night,
the Tour light on
>the dash went out. Sport still lights up when pressed
and seems to be
>functioning. Tour light burnt
out?
>
>Paul/.
>95 black 3000GT VR-4
>98 VFR800F, TBR
aluminum hi exit
>formerly reasonable and prudent
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:52:40
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
Im still rather partial to the celica platform
for reliability and HP, or
Porsche if money is no object.
There was
one GSX at the last race, he was doing tranny work Saturday
night.
On
Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
> > From what I've read and
seen at Dynamic Racing's web
> > site (Matt's 11 sec Stealth), I
believe that you
> > could tune a 3000GT TT to beat a Corvette, BMW,
or
> > Porsche in a straight line but could you out handle
> >
them?
>
> I think overall a TT 3/S car makes it easier for the
average driver to drive
> faster/quicker with more confidence. The
extra weight isn't a help, but for
> most driving situations a 3/S is a
very capable car. At the limit they can
> become a handful to
control, but as a street car they are incredibly
> capable.
>
> If I was going to drive a car on-track with the turbo/AWD philosophy
I'd
> probably pick an Eclipse/Talon/Laser AWD to save about 500 pounds
up-front
> and try to increase the power and handling of that
platform. Its also much*
> easier to get replacement parts for those
than for 3/S (especially the
> dreaded tranny parts).
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:57:12
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
I would also add that going
from feather throttle to WOT doesnt hold
nearly the juice that a Z06 or Viper
has..also a point where power -could-
solve the problem, but remove a ton of
weight..and your wallet doesnt need
to be near as thick.
On Wed, 31
Oct 2001, Sam Shelat wrote:
> Rich,
> Sounds like your problem
is power--with our cars its not really a
> problem--turbo swap is the
answer. Seriously, our stock 9b turbos suck at
> the top end.
I have drag raced many vettes and I hardly ever lose to one.
> However,
take it on the highway and get to speeds above 110mph, and its a
> whole
different animal. Just trying to run one down from 80mph on up is
>
pretty futile. Our cars are great at accelerating from a dead stop
and
> through 2nd gear, but third is a joke cause our turbos run out of
steam. If
> you havn't had the opportunity, drive someones car with
even a 13g turbo in
> it---its like night and day in third and fourth
gear.
>
> Sam
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
To: Volthause <
volt@vozuluzov.com>; 3000GT <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Are our
cars really that fast?
>
>
> >
> >>You want
to go faster and keep up with the big boys? Work on the driver.
>
>>You ask if your car can keep up with other cars, I ask if the driver
can
> >>keep up with the other drivers.
> >>
>
>That's a real cute, pat answer. Thanks for sharing that wonderful
insight.
> >Maybe I should attend driver school!
> >
>
>But it begs the question about cars. It's one thing to work on the
entry
> >and exits, but it's quite another to watch a Z08 or a Viper
accelerate away
> >from you down the straight, after you just spent six
corners running it
> >down. I just want my hardware to be the best it
can be for the money I have
> >to spend. That was my question.
>
>
> >By the way, I think it's Carroll Smith, not Carol Smith. I
could be wrong,
> >but one's a guy, one's a girl.
> >
>
>Rich
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:49:15
-0500
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Indiglo Gauges In Yea
I just finished installing the Indiglo
Gauges in my 1997 VR-4 and they are awesome. I just can't figure out how
to get a good
picture of them at night.
Also, I made a custom decal
for the Tachometer and it looks absolutely wild. Let me know if you want
one. I have the Mitsubishi
Diamond Star Logo with VR-4 on it, and the
Dodge Ram logo with Stealth on it.
You can find pictures of the gauges at
http://www.members.home.com/anthonymelillo/3000gt.htmIf
you are interested in purchasing them, click on the link on my web page to
contact the seller, and he will give you the club
discount. Tell him I
sent you.
Anthony Melillo
anthonymelillo@home.com1997 VR-4,
Firestorm Red
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:00:43
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
At the risk of dragging this
out even more...
At 09:44 PM 10/31/01 -0000, Sam Shelat
wrote:
>Where do you find the weaknesses of the car as a racing
platform? Is it
>braking, power, weight or all of the above?
I find our cars to be magnificent, and superior to almost everything on
the
track.
My original question was, what happens when you start to mod
it up and go
after the fast cars? Does it remain competitive in the higher
run groups?
People have misinterpreted this question for days
now.
Where do the Vipers beat you-on
>the straights and turns or
just straights where you can never catch up?
I can stay with a Viper in
the turns, they pull away on the straights. But
then EVERYBODY can stay with
Vipers in turns, even 5.0s..
If
>its just power you lack,
about $5000 <snip>
Yes, I know.
Question was, do I want
to do that or find some other car to mod? Answer:
It looks like I will stick
with the VR4 based on answers I've gotten here.
As a totally stock car,
the VR-4
>can't be expected to come out on top compared to cars developed
expressly
>for and through racing like the Porsche, Vette, Viper.
Just get under one
>of these cars and it will make ours look like
passenger vehicles in
>comparison.
Everything I've
experienced and others have related on this list leads me
to believe that our
cars -- with their brakes fixed -- are superior to
911s, M3s, C5 Corvettes,
and 5.0s, when driven by comparable drivers in
lower run groups. Cars that
beat us on a regular basis in those run groups
include AWD TT Porsches, Z06
Corvettes, Cobra Rs and Vipers. That means,
with a few bucks spent on brakes,
our cars run with the best of them.
When you move up a run group or two,
and run with instructors in highly
modified cars and out-and-out racers, then
our mostly-stock cars become
speed bumps. Of course, the same thing happens
to a stock 911, M3, C5,
etc., when it moves up a group -- suddenly, it is no
longer competitive
either. I got put into one of those groups last time out,
and didn't like
getting passed by Vipers and race-prepped 914 s. If you move
up, you gotta
make your car more competitive. Hence my original
question.
The fact that you are even staying competitive says a lot
for
>the car and your driving skills.
Not according to Flash. The
car, maybe.
> I think you will have to put about $15,000 worth
of
>power producing, suspension and brake enhancing, and weight reduction
parts
>to make our cars equal to these race bred vehicles.
Gee, I hope not. I was hoping for more like $5K done over a 2-3 year
period.
I just want the car to be competitive in its run group.
Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:31:31
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Ok..im
confused.
Merritt: Either your region is really small, or a number of
alternative
cars arent being considered.
1) The spyder ran away from
all the 3S's I was near..but perhaps they
werent going all out on a new
track..thats very fair to say.
2) I havent heard anyone mention any
competently driven RX7s at any of
your events.
Ive driven a large # of
cars at many tracks..and hands down the most
'capable' ive driven was the
RX7-TT. Intake & exhaust (on better brake
pads) only has been
enough to lay down some serious funk on Z06s, and any
Fbody or Stang with a
S/C or turbo kit. Vipers are rare here, but I doubt
I could meet thier
acceleration, but high speed handling and its all over
with the ones Ive
gotten to _coast_ behind in S's at various tracks.
Im gonna get flamed
probly..so try to keep it in private Email if you even
think im calling the
3S IN capable..and im not. Im just not calling it
extremely capable in
relatively stock form when compared to cars that
actually had track
performance in -mind- when they were designed.
I sincerely belive you are
limiting yourself to a choice of a VR4, a VR4,
or a VR4 in your short-list of
possible track cars to compete with the
'big boys' myself.
$ for $
spent, its not the right car, youre at a significant disadvantage
the moment
youturn the key.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Merritt wrote:
> At the
risk of dragging this out even more...
>
> At 09:44 PM 10/31/01
-0000, Sam Shelat wrote:
> >Where do you find the weaknesses of the car
as a racing platform? Is it
> >braking, power, weight or all of
the above?
>
> I find our cars to be magnificent, and
superior to almost everything on the
> track.
> My original
question was, what happens when you start to mod it up and go
> after the
fast cars? Does it remain competitive in the higher run groups?
> People
have misinterpreted this question for days now.
>
> Where do the
Vipers beat you-on
> >the straights and turns or just straights where
you can never catch up?
>
> I can stay with a Viper in the turns,
they pull away on the straights. But
> then EVERYBODY can stay with Vipers
in turns, even 5.0s..
>
> If
> >its just power
you lack, about $5000 <snip>
>
> Yes, I know.
>
Question was, do I want to do that or find some other car to mod?
Answer:
> It looks like I will stick with the VR4 based on answers I've
gotten here.
>
> As a totally stock car, the VR-4
> >can't
be expected to come out on top compared to cars developed expressly
>
>for and through racing like the Porsche, Vette, Viper. Just get under
one
> >of these cars and it will make ours look like passenger vehicles
in
> >comparison.
>
> Everything I've experienced
and others have related on this list leads me
> to believe that our cars
-- with their brakes fixed -- are superior to
> 911s, M3s, C5 Corvettes,
and 5.0s, when driven by comparable drivers in
> lower run groups. Cars
that beat us on a regular basis in those run groups
> include AWD TT
Porsches, Z06 Corvettes, Cobra Rs and Vipers. That means,
> with a few
bucks spent on brakes, our cars run with the best of them.
>
> When
you move up a run group or two, and run with instructors in highly
>
modified cars and out-and-out racers, then our mostly-stock cars become
>
speed bumps. Of course, the same thing happens to a stock 911, M3, C5,
>
etc., when it moves up a group -- suddenly, it is no longer competitive
>
either. I got put into one of those groups last time out, and didn't
like
> getting passed by Vipers and race-prepped 914 s. If you move up,
you gotta
> make your car more competitive. Hence my original
question.
>
> The fact that you are even staying competitive says a
lot for
> >the car and your driving skills.
>
> Not
according to Flash. The car, maybe.
>
> > I think you will have
to put about $15,000 worth of
> >power producing, suspension and brake
enhancing, and weight reduction parts
> >to make our cars equal to
these race bred vehicles.
>
> Gee, I hope not. I was hoping
for more like $5K done over a 2-3 year period.
> I just want the car to
be competitive in its run group.
>
> Rich/slow old
poop
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 05:38:25
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Road Racing
> The car is a 94 TT...
How are you
monitoring knock?
- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:45:37
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Indiglo Gauges In Yea
Also, here is a shot from the Cape Cod
Gathering. Custom set of 3Si
gauges.
http://gatherings.3si.org/Quickening2001/image28.htmlAs
for your Indiglo ones ... a digital camera will work best so you can
review
what you took or set an SLR to "night" mode and turn off the
flash, use a
tripod, and take a timed exposure.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: anthonymelillo
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001
22:49
I just finished installing the Indiglo Gauges in my 1997 VR-4
and they
are awesome. I just can't figure out how to get a
good
picture of them at night.
Also, I made a custom decal for the
Tachometer and it looks absolutely
wild. Let me know if you want
one. I have the Mitsubishi
Diamond Star Logo with VR-4 on it, and the
Dodge Ram logo with Stealth
on it.
You can find pictures of the gauges
at
http://www.members.home.com/anthonymelillo/3000gt.htmIf
you are interested in purchasing them, click on the link on my web
page to
contact the seller, and he will give you the club
discount. Tell him I
sent you.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:57:03
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
At 08:31 PM 10/31/01 -0800,
Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Ok..im confused.
Can't help you
there.
>
>Merritt: Either your region is really small, or a number
of alternative
>cars arent being considered.
I run in Illinois
(BlackHawk Farms), Wisconsin (Road America) and Kansas
(Heartland Park).
Mostly Porsche and BMW club events.
>
>1) The spyder ran away from
all the 3S's I was near..but perhaps they
>werent going all out on a new
track..thats very fair to say.
What Spyder? I must have missed
something.
>
>2) I havent heard anyone mention any competently
driven RX7s at any of
>your events.
I've seen one or two, but none
competently driven.
>
>Im gonna get flamed probly..so try to keep it
in private Email if you even
>think im calling the 3S IN capable..and im
not. Im just not calling it
>extremely capable in relatively stock
form when compared to cars that
>actually had track performance in -mind-
when they were designed.
You are entitled to your
opinion.
>
>I sincerely belive you are limiting yourself to a choice
of a VR4, a VR4,
>or a VR4 in your short-list of possible track cars to
compete with the
>'big boys' myself.
No, I have one, and I was
wanting to know it I should modify it so I can
compete in higher run groups.
I was perfectly willing to consider an M3 or
something else if people on this
list thought I was wasting my time by
trying to build a VR4 up.
As to
other cars, I have been passed by oddball or one-off cars, but not
enough to
make me want to go buy one. For example, I got dusted last year
by a Supra
running 24 psi and Torquezilla, a monster rear-engine Ford
Pantera, and I've
diced with supercharged BMWs and 930 turbos that gave me
quite a run.
But I don't want to buy any of those. I was also seriously
considering
swtiching my track allegience to my Eagle Talon TSi AWD car. My
buddy, an
instructor, says I can mod a 5.0 Mustang for half the price of
the Mitsu
(actually, he wants me in a Thunderbird!). I considered a TT RX7
and a TT 300
ZX. So, I have looked around. I like my VR4, though.
>
>$ for $
spent, its not the right car, youre at a significant disadvantage
>the
moment youturn the key.
You are one of the few who thinks so on this
list, but I respect your
opinion.
>
Rich/slow old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:36:29
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Are our cars really that fast?
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> 1) The spyder ran away from all the 3S's I was near..but perhaps
they
> werent going all out on a new track..thats very fair to
say.
>
Not at Thunderhill --- it is more of a horsepower track
than Sears Point
so you seemed to be at a disadvantage there.
As to
Sears Point I'd have to see some times to compare --- we didn't
get to run
with each other when I started to feel more comfortable with
the track
layout. I feel with a few more sessions the Spyder would
not be able to out
pace my Stealth ---- I'll have to figure out how to get
back up there and
prove my point. If you'd get a Hot Lap timer we could
at least compare
times.
Jim
berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:03:44
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Not -that- much of one...all
things considered.
Next time yer up, I think that'd be fun.
*g*
Im thinking I can break the 7 into mid-high 1:20s with some
work. 3
weekends ago I was 1:31..and then I discovered a disconnected
sway bar
link in the rear.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Jim Berry
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Mohler
<
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
>
> > 1) The spyder ran away from all the 3S's I was near..but
perhaps they
> > werent going all out on a new track..thats very fair
to say.
>
> Not at Thunderhill --- it is more of a horsepower track
than Sears Point
> so you seemed to be at a disadvantage there.
>
> As to Sears Point I'd have to see some times to compare --- we
didn't
> get to run with each other when I started to feel more
comfortable with
> the track layout. I feel with a few more sessions the
Spyder would
> not be able to out pace my Stealth ---- I'll have to
figure out how to get
> back up there and prove my point. If you'd get a
Hot Lap timer we could
> at least compare times.
>
> Jim berry
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:08:10
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> My buddy, an instructor,
says I can mod a 5.0 Mustang
> for half the price of the Mitsu (actually,
he wants me
> in a Thunderbird!).
Bleah - how boring.
Its
not as much fun to do what everyone else does, at least I don't
think
so.
Put some of the more simple modifications on your VR4 (or
the DSM) and see
how it feels to you. If you are losing ground in the
straights and can hang
with 'em in the corners then bump up the power a
little. No big deal... If
you just need a little boost and more
top-end then maybe consider 13G's (or
their compatibles - DR500?). Keep
the boost down around 13 psi, but you'll
still get better more consistent
power from the the higher compressor
efficiency. If you can get an
injector duty cycle gauge to keep an eye on
IDC that would be a good way to
see if you need the bigger injectors.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:13:23
+1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> >>>Japaneese
cars come with 9Bs, same as USA spec
>
> So could you tell me why so
many people who have bought Japanese salvage
> engines have gotten 13Gs
with them? If it was just a matter of people
> scoring already
upgraded engines,
Here in New Zealand 99% of our GTOs are from Japan. The
only GTOs I have
seen with turbos other than 9Bs have been upgraded in New
Zealand. An easy
way to tell a Jap spec engine is the lack of EGR. You must
have just been
lucky to get upgraded turbos on
yours.
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:20:18
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec Turbos
First, it doesn't exist a product called
"JSpec" Engine or something like
that. This is only a synonym for a used or
new engine comming directly from
Japan.
Regarding the 9b and 13g I
wrote several times, that all 3S cars outside
Europe do have 9b standard
installed. All engines produced with 13g are
made for Europe. Now it is fact
that we just don't need spare engines here,
as they do not break at all.
This because we have different service
intervalls as well as Mitsu obviously
takes more care to their customers
and the cars than in the States. This
then caused an overstockign of 13g
equipped engines at Mitsu and with some
luck if one orders a new engine
he's getting one of these with 13g. Also in
Japan, the 13g turbos directly
from Mitsu are often installed when one had a
leaking 9b and instead of
repairing they get the 13g directly
installed.
Under the line, the Mitsu 13g is not as good as any other 13g
offered by
aftermarket tuners. I saw differences in the 13g comrpessor wheel
between
HKS and mine although the dyno showed only an advance of them in the
lower
area. The 13g starts to fall off on the boost level after 4800rpm like
the
9b too (see my last dyno sheet with recorded boost). They only advantage
I
measured was that the discharge temperature is somewhat lower on the 13g
compared to the 9b what may result in better performance and stability
against knock.
9b or 13g ... the advantage of the 13g is too small
compared to the costs
of install and parts. And as it was mentioned
correctly, when you get an
engine from Japan, you may or may not getting
13g's.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> From personal experience,
my used JSpec does have the 13Gs - and the
> other 2 3Si
>owners at
the time (Matt and Hans) also had the 13Gs. But I also know of
an
>Australian who bought an entire JSpec GTO and he wound up with
9Bs. Roger has
>maintained for quite sometime that JSpecs only came
with 9Bs stock, so I do
>think it more of a crap shoot not a
guarantee. I was just really happy when I
>checked mine on the
palette and 1) there was zero play in the turbo shafts and
>2) they were
13Gs (you can see the two staged turbine wheel easily when the
>engine is
out).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:56:29
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FW: TRE MASC?
Listers, I contacted Ming at TRE about their
MASC upgrade/conversion. Below
is his reply, If I hear anything more I
will let you guys/gals know. Also
are there any differences as between
the stock MAS on 91-93's 94's and
95-99's? I mean in frequency
range/voltage etc.... I would look it up but
I am at work and the CD
manual is at home..... I know install it on the
work one, if only my
hard drive were larger.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Ming Lim [SMTP:ming@teamrip.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:07
PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Subject: Re: TRE MASC?
>
> Theroatically they should work, I will try one out on a 94 3kgt
and keep
> you
> updated.
>
> Ming
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 06:03:11
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Drag Racing with 700 HP
So, Charles, what are your 1/4 miles
times/speeds with 700 crank HP?
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- --- On October
31, 2001
StealthCT@aol.com wrote:
>
It seems to me not long ago you road racers (including the old
> poop)
were complaining that this net was used primarily by us drag
>
racers. It seems now you got your wish as there seems to be few of
>
us left. I do drag race and have raced all of the cars in a
> straight
line that you are competing against at the track. This
> includes
Viper's, Z06,s and just about everything on four wheels.
> Needless to
say my car is heavly modified, producing around 700 HP
> at the
crank, however I have no trouble at all beating all of
> these cars
handily in a quarter mile. I have yet to be beaten by a
> "street
car". I believe our cars are capable of holding there own
> against
any street car when properly modified. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:04:33
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re:
Fw: JSpec Turbos
>>> Now it is fact that we just don't need
spare engines here,
as they do not break at all.
So what is so
different about your maintenance intervals and service
routines that cause
you to have invincible engines and us poor souls in
North America to be
cursed with broken motors rather frequently? Might it
actually have
something to do with your government limiting what you do with
your motors
while we're free to mod to our heart's content?
>>>This then
caused an overstockign of 13g
equipped engines at Mitsu and with some luck if
one orders a new engine
he's getting one of these with 13g.
We're
talking about USED, SALVAGE engines out of JAPANESE junkyards here.
Not NEW
engines. Also, I wasn't aware one could "order a new engine"
from
Mitsu. I had to build mine from parts because Mitsu won't supply a
complete
"crate" engine like most other manufacturers
do.
>>>Also in Japan, the 13g turbos directly
from Mitsu are
often installed when one had a leaking 9b and instead of
repairing they get
the 13g directly installed.
So first the engines don't break, but then
all these leaky turbos are the
real source of our 13G surplus engines?
For every single person to have
ordered a JDM salvage motor and gotten 13Gs,
this would mean that all of
those motors (with less than 50,000 miles no
less) had their turbos fail on
them. This is astounding. I can
count 3 people from 3SI in the last TWO
YEARS that replaced turbos due to
failure. But the Japanese are replacing
them seemingly all the
time?
Now let me ask everyone something. Who here actually SPEAKS
or READS
Japanese and can tell me that they have actually read Mitsubishi
factory
literature stating that North America and Asia got TD04-9Bs while
Europe
received TD04-13Gs? Enough with the hearsay and speculation
already.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Thursday,
November 01, 2001 4:20 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec Turbos
First, it doesn't exist a product called
"JSpec" Engine or something like
that. This is only a synonym for a used or
new engine comming directly from
Japan.
Regarding the 9b and 13g I
wrote several times, that all 3S cars outside
Europe do have 9b standard
installed. All engines produced with 13g are
made for Europe. Now it is fact
that we just don't need spare engines here,
as they do not break at all. This
because we have different service
intervalls as well as Mitsu obviously takes
more care to their customers
and the cars than in the States. This then
caused an overstockign of 13g
equipped engines at Mitsu and with some luck if
one orders a new engine
he's getting one of these with 13g. Also in Japan,
the 13g turbos directly
from Mitsu are often installed when one had a leaking
9b and instead of
repairing they get the 13g directly installed.
Under
the line, the Mitsu 13g is not as good as any other 13g offered
by
aftermarket tuners. I saw differences in the 13g comrpessor wheel
between
HKS and mine although the dyno showed only an advance of them in the
lower
area. The 13g starts to fall off on the boost level after 4800rpm like
the
9b too (see my last dyno sheet with recorded boost). They only advantage
I
measured was that the discharge temperature is somewhat lower on the
13g
compared to the 9b what may result in better performance and
stability
against knock.
9b or 13g ... the advantage of the 13g is too
small compared to the costs
of install and parts. And as it was mentioned
correctly, when you get an
engine from Japan, you may or may not getting
13g's.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> From personal experience,
my used JSpec does have the 13Gs - and the
> other 2 3Si
>owners at
the time (Matt and Hans) also had the 13Gs. But I also know
of
an
>Australian who bought an entire JSpec GTO and he wound up with
9Bs. Roger
has
>maintained for quite sometime that JSpecs only
came with 9Bs stock, so I do
>think it more of a crap shoot not a
guarantee. I was just really happy
when I
>checked mine on the
palette and 1) there was zero play in the turbo shafts
and
>2) they
were 13Gs (you can see the two staged turbine wheel easily when
the
>engine is out).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:20:43
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
One question I asked a while
back that got no response comes to mind - what
is the approximate torque
curve for 2nd gen VR4 totally stock? I'd be happy
to see one with
K&N intake and 14.7 psi boost, but stock would help answer
my
question. It has to do with when to shift on a road course. My
advanced
instructors, all with NA cars, have always encouraged me to run the
rpm up
to redline before upshifting. Someone else on the list(s) said
our cars'
maximum torque was much lower than 7000 rpm like 3000-5000.
That implies
that I should be upshifting sooner.
Running in higher
gears is a technique to carry more momentum through
corners, but I am asking
specifically about launching out onto a long
straight. Maybe you drag
racers can suggest something.
Chuck Willis
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Sam Shelat [SMTP:sshelat@erols.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:53 PM
> To: Volthause; 3000GT;
Merritt
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>
> Rich,
> Sounds like your problem is power--with our cars its not
really a
> problem--turbo swap is the answer. Seriously, our stock
9b turbos suck at
> the top end. I have drag raced many vettes and I
hardly ever lose to one.
> However, take it on the highway and get to
speeds above 110mph, and its a
> whole different animal. Just trying
to run one down from 80mph on up is
> pretty futile. Our cars are
great at accelerating from a dead stop and
> through 2nd gear, but third
is a joke cause our turbos run out of steam.
> If
> you havn't had
the opportunity, drive someones car with even a 13g turbo
> in
>
it---its like night and day in third and fourth gear.
>
>
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 06:24:13
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: JSpec Turbos
>> while we're free to mod to our heart's
content?
Sadly, this is false. Nearly every mod we do, and all that
relate to
emissions (intake, turbo, exhaust, injectors, MAS, cats, etc.),
are
illegal - according to Federal Law and many States' Law.
For your
reading enjoyment about exhaust mods.
http://www.off-road.com/dodge/tech/Emissions_Legal.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>;
"Roger Gerl"
<
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2001 7:04 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec
Turbos
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:31:55
-0000
From: "Baker, Simon" <
Simon.Baker@mobisphere.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec Turbos
I wonder if you have more problems with
engines in the states, because of
you low levels of RON in your
fuel
the cars are designed for the following
In JIS standard
(Japanese Industrial Standard) definition as follows.
Regular
petrol is defined that octane content should be more than 89.
Premium petrol is defined that octane content should be more than
96.
However, actually, the petrol which is sold in petrol shop have more
high
quality of
octane content .
That is
Octane content
of regular petrol is from 90 to 92.
Octane content of premium petrol is
from 98 to 100.
in the Uk we have premium petrol of 97.6
, Also
my understanding of the turbo was the mrk 1 had 9g turbos (cars
with
pop up lights) and the mrk 2 had 13g turbo's
simon
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff VanOrsdal
> Sent: 01
November 2001 14:05
> To: Team3s Tech List; Roger Gerl
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec Turbos
>
> >>> Now it
is fact that we just don't need spare engines here,
> as they do not break
at all.
>
> So what is so different about your maintenance
intervals and service
> routines that cause you to have invincible engines
and us poor souls in
> North America to be cursed with broken motors
rather frequently? Might it
> actually have something to do with
your government limiting what you do
> with
> your motors while
we're free to mod to our heart's content?
>
> >>>This then
caused an overstockign of 13g
> equipped engines at Mitsu and with some
luck if one orders a new engine
> he's getting one of these with
13g.
>
> We're talking about USED, SALVAGE engines out of JAPANESE
junkyards here.
> Not NEW engines. Also, I wasn't aware one could
"order a new engine" from
> Mitsu. I had to build mine from parts
because Mitsu won't supply a
> complete
> "crate" engine like most
other manufacturers do.
>
> >>>Also in Japan, the 13g
turbos directly
> from Mitsu are often installed when one had a leaking 9b
and instead of
> repairing they get the 13g directly installed.
>
> So first the engines don't break, but then all these leaky turbos are
the
> real source of our 13G surplus engines? For every single
person to have
> ordered a JDM salvage motor and gotten 13Gs, this would
mean that all of
> those motors (with less than 50,000 miles no less) had
their turbos fail
> on
> them. This is astounding. I can
count 3 people from 3SI in the last TWO
> YEARS that replaced turbos due
to failure. But the Japanese are replacing
> them seemingly all the
time?
>
> Now let me ask everyone something. Who here
actually SPEAKS or READS
> Japanese and can tell me that they have
actually read Mitsubishi factory
> literature stating that North America
and Asia got TD04-9Bs while Europe
> received TD04-13Gs? Enough with
the hearsay and speculation already.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
>
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Roger Gerl
> Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2001 4:20 AM
> To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec Turbos
>
>
> First, it
doesn't exist a product called "JSpec" Engine or something like
> that.
This is only a synonym for a used or new engine comming directly
>
from
> Japan.
>
> Regarding the 9b and 13g I wrote several
times, that all 3S cars outside
> Europe do have 9b standard installed.
All engines produced with 13g are
> made for Europe. Now it is fact that
we just don't need spare engines
> here,
> as they do not break at
all. This because we have different service
> intervalls as well as Mitsu
obviously takes more care to their customers
> and the cars than in the
States. This then caused an overstockign of 13g
> equipped engines at
Mitsu and with some luck if one orders a new engine
> he's getting one of
these with 13g. Also in Japan, the 13g turbos directly
> from Mitsu are
often installed when one had a leaking 9b and instead of
> repairing they
get the 13g directly installed.
>
> Under the line, the Mitsu 13g
is not as good as any other 13g offered by
> aftermarket tuners. I saw
differences in the 13g comrpessor wheel between
> HKS and mine although
the dyno showed only an advance of them in the lower
> area. The 13g
starts to fall off on the boost level after 4800rpm like the
> 9b too (see
my last dyno sheet with recorded boost). They only advantage I
> measured
was that the discharge temperature is somewhat lower on the 13g
> compared
to the 9b what may result in better performance and stability
> against
knock.
>
> 9b or 13g ... the advantage of the 13g is too small
compared to the costs
> of install and parts. And as it was mentioned
correctly, when you get an
> engine from Japan, you may or may not getting
13g's.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> > From personal
experience, my used JSpec does have the 13Gs - and the
> > other 2
3Si
> >owners at the time (Matt and Hans) also had the 13Gs. But
I also know of
> an
> >Australian who bought an entire JSpec GTO
and he wound up with 9Bs.
> Roger
> has
> >maintained for
quite sometime that JSpecs only came with 9Bs stock, so I
> do
>
>think it more of a crap shoot not a guarantee. I was just really
happy
> when I
> >checked mine on the palette and 1) there was
zero play in the turbo
> shafts
> and
> >2) they were 13Gs
(you can see the two staged turbine wheel easily when
> the
>
>engine is out).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:34:02
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
JSpec Turbos
I KNOW that technically things we do are illegal.
However, in virtually any
state outside the jurisdiction of CARB, if you pass
basic emissions tests
you're fine. My state doesn't even have emissions
tests. We are not limited
on power output as the Swiss are. If we were,
cars like AAMs purple 96 GT
and Arty's Garrett monster simply wouldn't
exist. These laws you speak of
might be on the books, but they are
seldom enforced. But perhaps I'm
biased. Living near Detroit, one
sees cars that realistically shouldn't be
on the street but yet are hardly
even noticed by law enforcement.
So maybe we could stick to the
point. Does anyone have any hard, factual
evidence explaining why every
salvage JDM engine we've seen so far has 13G
turbos if they were all
supposedly sold with 9Bs?
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Thursday,
November 01, 2001 9:24 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: JSpec Turbos
>> while we're free to mod to our heart's
content?
Sadly, this is false. Nearly every mod we do, and all that
relate to
emissions (intake, turbo, exhaust, injectors, MAS, cats, etc.),
are
illegal - according to Federal Law and many States' Law.
For your
reading enjoyment about exhaust mods.
http://www.off-road.com/dodge/tech/Emissions_Legal.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>;
"Roger Gerl"
<
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2001 7:04 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec
Turbos
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:01:18
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
JSpec Turbos
Check Rogers site --- he has multiple dyno runs. Check the
left side of
the home page about ¾ of the way down. Checking 3SI
archives should
give you some AAM results [ not Team 3S ].
Close to
redline is probably correct ---- I have a shift light set to 6K to
save wear
and tear on the engine and still allow me some latitude to
push harder if I
need a few more RPM.
Jim
Berry
http://www.rtec.ch/- -----
Original Message -----
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: JSpec
Turbos
> >> while we're free to mod to our heart's
content?
>
> Sadly, this is false. Nearly every mod we do, and all
that relate to
> emissions (intake, turbo, exhaust, injectors, MAS, cats,
etc.), are
> illegal - according to Federal Law and many States'
Law.
>
> For your reading enjoyment about exhaust mods.
>
http://www.off-road.com/dodge/tech/Emissions_Legal.htm>
>
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
> To: "Team3s Tech
List" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>; "Roger
Gerl"
> <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> Sent:
Thursday, November 01, 2001 7:04 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Fw: JSpec
Turbos
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:04:07
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> It has to do with when to
shift on a road course.
> My advanced instructors, all with NA cars,
have
> always encouraged me to run the rpm up to redline
> before
upshifting. Someone else on the list(s)
> said our cars' maximum
torque was much lower
> than 7000 rpm like 3000-5000. That
implies
> that I should be upshifting sooner.
On a stock turbo 3/S
peak torque is right around 3000-3500 RPM. On a car
with a boost
controller that peak is extended to upper RPMs a little bit,
but starts
dropping off a lot past 5500 RPM. With bigger turbos the peak
torque
moves slightly higher and then doesn't fall off like with the
stock
turbos.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:19:25
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FW: TRE MASC?
The TRE MASC was available for our car at one point
---- someone used it,
Xwing or Bob Fontana maybe. For some reason unbeknownst
to me they
were
discontinued.
Jim
Berry
==============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
Listers, I contacted Ming at TRE about their MASC upgrade/conversion.
Below
> is his reply, If I hear anything more I will let you guys/gals
know. Also
> are there any differences as between the stock MAS on
91-93's 94's and
> 95-99's? I mean in frequency range/voltage
etc.... I would look it up but
> I am at work and the CD manual is
at home..... I know install it on the
> work one, if only my hard
drive were larger.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
From: Ming Lim [SMTP:ming@teamrip.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31,
2001 9:07 PM
> > To: Furman, Russell
> > Subject: Re:
TRE MASC?
> >
> > Theroatically they should work,
I will try one out on a 94 3kgt and keep
> > you
> >
updated.
> >
> > Ming
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:23:18
+0100 (MET)
From: <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: JSpec Turbos
In continental Europe, we must use 98 octane
ROZ to fullfill Mitsus requirnments. All engines that went south in
Switzerland and Germany have had increased boost. Some trannies and clutches
went south of course, but this is why Getrag is not that far away
(LOL).
And no, 9b and 13g has nothing to do with the generations. I
recently saw a 99'3K advertised here and after checking the VIN I found out it
was a 96 and US import. The guy talked the salesman down and bought the car. We
removed the air hose of the front turbo and it was a 9b. Beforehand I checked
the number and it looked already like the 9b.
The stuff I tell you here
is comming from Mitsu here (importer not dealer). This is the person who flys
over to Japan 4 times the year and also has some japanese people around if a
special problem appears in a car that could result in a TSB. In fact they
checked my car after the clutch went out in 94 the first time. This is also the
person who can get parts for Getrag repairs. The nice thing is that I can go to
their garage and they have somethign liek a Mitsu salvage yard in their
basement, where I can get connectors, harnesses and so on, hehe....but no engine
for our cars around :-/
The two japaense engines imported here for dead
Stealths where equipped with 9b and 13g. We were said that the engines onyl had
max of 30k on them. but the one we teared down looked like 130k miles (cylinder
walls, cams !) Also one of them had a strange fitting in the intake plenum with
a temp sensor. Needless to say that this car was equipped with a VPC as I
recognized their temp sensor. This was the cause that we removed the heads as I
did not felt good in gettign an engine that probably was driven too hard ! But
we were not able to do anything and accept the engine as shipping in back would
cost that much like getting a new one !
In the Netherlands there was
engine blows due to a faulty water pump. The dealer then got a new engine from
Mitsubishi via a dealer he knows in Japan. The engine was soooo clean he told me
and I wished to have a pic of it. It came with 13g turbos but this could be due
to the fact that he was in Europe. The engine was already equipped with the EGR
temp sensor for the latest cars but we do not have this here in Europe (3k was
sold until 96-97)
I for myself would say that you may or may not gettign
a good engine from Japan directly. They may or may not be equipped with 13g and
the milage of them can be what the guy on the other line of the phone tells you.
Who would one proove this as the guy just can say the engine was probably driven
hard but it's also just a used one :-/
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- original Nachricht
--------
I wonder if you have more problems with engines in the states,
because of
you low levels of RON in your fuel
, Also my understanding
of the turbo was the mrk 1 had 9g turbos (cars with
pop up lights) and
the mrk 2 had 13g turbo's
simon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:34:07
+0100 (MET)
From: <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Drag Racing with 700 HP
> Needless to say my car is heavly
modified, producing around 700 HP
> at the crank, however I have no
trouble at all beating all of
> these cars handily in a quarter
mile. I have yet to be beaten by a
> "street car". I believe
our cars are capable of holding there own
> against any street car when
properly modified. Regards Charles
Also needless to to say
"show us the facts, dyno (if available) and mods". How do you know yo uare
runnign 700hp on the crank ? Timeslips available ?? What is done to the ignition
?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:42:55
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FW: TRE MASC?
Jim, Bob, Xwing
Do we know why it was discontinued? To me it seems like
the most cost
effective way to help support moderate sized turbos. It would
seem to
have the capability to support 550CC or 720CC injectors. Then of
course
that unit plus a SFC/SAFC would put you in at $700 for fuel control
which is
a lot less than 1100 for VPC/GCC or the ARC2. Of course there
could be
some other problem that I am not aware of. Anyone wanna shed some
light
on this?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Berry
[SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:19
AM
> To: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Re: Team3S: FW:
TRE MASC?
>
> The TRE MASC was available for our car at one
point ---- someone used it,
> Xwing or Bob Fontana maybe. For some reason
unbeknownst to me they
> were discontinued.
>
> Jim Berry
>
==============================================
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
> > Listers, I contacted Ming at TRE about their MASC
upgrade/conversion.
> Below
> > is his reply, If I hear anything
more I will let you guys/gals know.
> Also
> > are there any
differences as between the stock MAS on 91-93's 94's and
> >
95-99's? I mean in frequency range/voltage etc.... I would look it
up
> but
> > I am at work and the CD manual is at home.....
I know install it on the
> > work one, if only my hard drive were
larger.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> >
> From: Ming Lim [SMTP:ming@teamrip.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday,
October 31, 2001 9:07 PM
> > > To: Furman, Russell
> > >
Subject: Re: TRE MASC?
> > >
> > > Theroatically
they should work, I will try one out on a 94 3kgt and
> keep
>
> > you
> > > updated.
> > >
> > >
Ming
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:37:57
-0800
From: "Ann Koch" <
akoch@sonic.net>
Subject: Team3S: Photos
from Sears Point
www.headonphotos.com has the Sears Point
thumbnails up and cars are
listed by number as well as under Speedtoys in the
parade lap section.
I can't remember everyone's number to look you up.
Could all attendees
send me your number so we can all admire each other's
cars? The photos
clearly show those of us who decided to deviate from
the Line.
Ann
'93 stealth TT w/Big Reds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:23:41
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Chuck Willis
wrote:
>
> [ ... ] what is the approximate torque curve for 2nd gen
VR4 totally stock?
> I'd be happy to see one with K&N intake and 14.7
psi boost
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html#DynoIt's
hard to differentiate between the horsepower and torque curves, so it may help
to take a look
at the CarTest images further down in the page
(#CarTest). At the point of intersection on the
graph, horsepower
levels off while torque falls sharply.
- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich,
Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 17:31:22
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions
George et all
The Datalog from
George is showing a contignous decrease in the O2 voltage
from 4000-6000
rpm. The IDC rises when rpm does but not enough. So the
relationship between
airflow and IPW is not correct. At 6000rpm the O2
value is around 0.86V what
is definitely not enough for the fuel you run.
The more octane the leaner
you can go and therefore you see less knock at
the same voltage with 100
octane.
The IDC shows a max of 97% at around 6000. Usually everything
above 85% is
called too much for long duration and will harm the injectors.
This is what
the industry is telling (and is written on RC's
page).
Basically in your setup the ARC is not properly tuned in. When
retuning to
a good O2 level (High must be increased) for your car around
0.90-0.92V the
IDC will increase and therefore you'll definitely hit the
100% IDC with
your current injectors.
Also the timing is pretty low
compared to the flow value. This means that
your ECU sits on the "less
quality fuel" map and therefore has seen some
knock beforehand !
Hope
this helps
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 10:02 30.10.2001 -0800,
AmkreadGTO wrote:
>Hi Roger,
>
>Th log was done with the
pocketlogger. How do I get
>the file stored in the Palm to a e-file
to email u??
>Hotsync it my computer? Then what? I'll try to
figure
>it out when I get home tonight...
>
>No, I dont have a
fuel pressure gauge in the car.. on
>a side note, with 50/50 mix of 100oct
& 91oct fuel, I
>get ZERO knock in the same
condition...
>
>Also, I usually only
log:
>-RPM
>-Throttle
Pos
>-Knock
>-O2
>-IDC
>-Timing
>
>IS there
other variable(s) I should be logging??
>
>Thanks for all your
help!
>
>/George
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:39:12
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Shift
Points
It has been my experience in drag racing that shifting at any RPM
other than redline results in slower times because of the time lost while your
boost rebuilds. I would assume that if you were driving a car that was not
using turbo's then shifting at or around your maximum torgue would be a good
idea. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:07:04
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Datalogging questions
> The Datalog from George is showing a
contignous
> decrease in the O2 voltage
> from 4000-6000 rpm. The
IDC rises when rpm does but
> not enough. So the
> relationship
between airflow and IPW is not correct.
> At 6000rpm the O2
> value
is around 0.86V what is definitely not enough
> for the fuel you run.
> The more octane the leaner you can go and therefore
> you see
less knock at
> the same voltage with 100 octane.
Does this have
to do with fuel pressure? How do I
solve the voltage drop issue? What
causes this volt
drop? Does this have to do with "rewiring" the fuel
pump
that I see many other owners do?
> Basically in your setup the ARC is
not properly
> tuned in. When retuning to
> a good O2 level (High
must be increased) for your
> car around 0.90-0.92V the
> IDC will
increase and therefore you'll definitely
> hit the 100% IDC with
>
your current injectors.
So... are the 550cc's too small for the GT357
turbos
to be boosting @ 1.3bar? Or is the ARC not properly
tuned in? The
"HIGH" is +3 clicks (on latest rev of
ARC)... what's the suggestion? Bigger
injectors? I'll
try riching it up a bit and see what the IDC
shows.
> Also the timing is pretty low compared to the flow
>
value. This means that
> your ECU sits on the "less quality fuel" map
and
> therefore has seen some
> knock beforehand !
So do I
try to reset the ECU? Do this everytime I
change fuel quality? What's
the susggestion?
Thanks again for all your help, Roger.
Really
appreciate it!
Best,
George
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 18:16:06
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions
At 09:07 01.11.2001 -0800, AmkreadGTO
wrote:
>Does this have to do with fuel pressure? How do I
>solve the
voltage drop issue? What causes this volt
>drop? Does this have to
do with "rewiring" the fuel
>pump that I see many other owners
do?
Nonono. I already wrote what to do :
> > Basically in
your setup the ARC is not properly
> > tuned in. When retuning
to
> > a good O2 level (High must be increased) for your
> >
car around 0.90-0.92V the
> > IDC will increase and therefore you'll
definitely
> > hit the 100% IDC with
> > your current
injectors.
High must be increased and the injectors are too
small.
>So... are the 550cc's too small for the GT357 turbos
>to
be boosting @ 1.3bar?
No, they are too small for 1.3
bar
> Or is the ARC not properly
>tuned in? The "HIGH" is
+3 clicks (on latest rev of
>ARC)... what's the suggestion?
+4 or
even 5 clicks.
> Bigger injectors?
Yes
>
I'll
>try riching it up a bit and see what the IDC shows.
Yes, and
send me the new log again.
>So do I try to reset the ECU? Do
this everytime I
>change fuel quality? What's the susggestion?
The
ECU normally swaps back when it doesn't see knock but then goes to the
"low
rating" fuel map again when knock occurs. Remember, mroe advanced
timing may
cause more knock too and therefore timing is retarted then. Too
much knock
causes the ECU to jump to the second maps for safety : richer,
less
timing.
>Thanks again for all your help, Roger.
Really
>appreciate it!
Been there, done than
;-))
Greetz
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#662
***************************************