Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, October 31 2001
Volume 01 : Number
661
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:59:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
I think I read somewhere, that
a minor increase in speed, can result in
many X the increase in braking
required.
Gonna have to look that back up..
On Tue, 30 Oct 2001,
Zobel, Kurt wrote:
> Rich,
>
> Just take a look at track
records for various tracks.
> For cars to get within shouting range of
another class which is 500 to 1000 lbs lighter than they.. it takes twice as
much horsepower, twice as much braking, twice as much tire patch.
>
> Unfortunately that twice as much usually translates to 3 or 4 times the
moola.
> So if you are intent on collecting trophies or winning
championships, well you have the wrong car. Unless you can get a new class
started for cars over 3500 lbs with 3.0 or less turbo, then we would come out
shining.
>
> Of course, if you're not looking for trophies, but
just want to go out and have a great time at the track, and also have the best
combination of looks and street performance for the money, then you have the
right car.
>
> MHO,
> Kurt
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: AmkreadGTO
[mailto:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 1:39
PM
> To: Team3S;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>
>
> =)
>
> I remember I was flamed because I said our car will
> not be able
to compete with other highly tuned cars on
> a road course with comparable
drivers... I still
> believe that today. The 3S TT is a great street
car
> and a awesome weekend warrior toy.. but when step up
> to the
real big boys with real drivers, we will not be
> on a podium...
JMHO~
>
> I'm still waiting for GeoffM to take his VR4 to
some
> 'higher' level type of championship~
>
>
/George
> --- Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
> > I know that I am guiltier than most at making
> >
outrageous claims about the
> > superiority of our cars, as compared to
M3s, C5s,
> > 5.0s, 911s, etc. I based
> > my statements of a
year and two years ago on a
> > desperate plea to get you
> >
folks to come out and play, and on the relative ease
> > I had in
blowing off
> > such cars in the lower run groups. I have
always
> > thought that our cars are
> > technically superior
to the others, thus they make:
> > a) a wonderful, forgiving car to
learn in (just fix
> > the brakes) and
> > (b) a car that
will beat others even while you are
> > learning how to drive
it.
> >
> > Now that I have graduated into faster run groups,
I
> > am not so sure. Having
> > been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD
Porsches, and
> > race-prepped cars driven by
> > instructors,
I need some confirmation from our
> > really experienced open
>
> trackers driving modded cars: Are our cars still
> > superior in
higher level
> > run groups? I've heard "locker room" talk that
we
> > are a bunch of moving
> > obstacles in the upper run
groups. It's one thing to
> > blow off Dr. Gotbucks
> > in his
brand new M3 in Group 1, but it's a whole
> > different ball game
when
> > that M3 is being driven by an instructor.
> >
> > I am at the point where, to get competitive with
> >
race-prepped cars and
> > Vipers, I have to think about some serious
mods
> > (read: $$$) or moving on to
> > another, more
suitable car.
> >
> > Any advice from the top dogs?
>
>
> > Rich/old poop/still and underdog
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:05:57
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>Of course, if you're not
looking for trophies, but just want to go out and
have a great time at the
track, and also have the best combination of looks
and street performance for
the money, then you have the right car.
>
I want to keep up with the
fast guys. I know I can't run down a TransAm
car, but I'd like to keep up
with all the other streetable, license-plate,
door-slammers out there. I
don't want to be laughed at in the locker room,
if you get my
drift.
If I had a fortune, I'd buy a Z06 or a Cobra R or an AWD Porsche.
I don't
have a fortune, so I gotta make do with what I got.
My
only question is, am I following the correct path to keep up with the
bad
boys? Or should I move to a different car, one that is more easily
moddable
for the same money?
So far, it looks like the VR4 is still the correct
choice.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:45:30
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> door-slammers out there.
I don't want to be laughed at in the locker room,
> if you get my
drift.
- ---
Thats an ego issue, not an 'open-track as a hobby' one
IMHO. And im not
saying its yours, but it still is
one.
> If I had a fortune, I'd buy a Z06 or a Cobra R or an AWD
Porsche. I don't
> have a fortune, so I gotta make do with what I
got.
- ---
Pick your class, and pay for it. You dont have to
spend gobs of cash to
be competative.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:46:01
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>> I don't want to be
laughed at in the locker room,
>> if you get my
drift.
>---
>Thats an ego issue, not an 'open-track as a hobby' one
IMHO. And im not
>saying its yours, but it still is
one.
Well, of course it is. But that's the point: There is no reason to
do
something if you can't do it well. I like to be out front, or at least
up
there with the leaders. I don't have a fortune to spend, so I have
to do
the best with what I got. The LAST thing I want to do is go out there
and
motor around at the back of the pack, be a moving obstacle, and have
the
instructors laugh at me. Instead, I want them to say, "Man, that
old dude
in the black Mitsu is FAST!" Yeah, that's an ego thing.
>
- -
>Pick your class, and pay for it. You dont have to
spend gobs of cash to
>be competative.
In open tracking, there are
no classes. Just run groups based on
experience. In the higher run groups,
it's like the early days of rallying:
run what you brung. No rules. No
limitations.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:14:48
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> >Pick your class, and
pay for it. You dont have to spend gobs of cash to
> >be
competative.
>
> In open tracking, there are no classes. Just run
groups based on
> experience. In the higher run groups, it's like the
early days of rallying:
> run what you brung. No rules. No limitations.
- ---
Well..then nobody's racing then, no problems. And..yes, there
are
limitations. When I pick a car to race, the limitation that bans me
from
events for 5 years if I kock someone out of -my- line, goes away.
Thats a
huge limitation in how you, and the others are driving.
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:32:28
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Photos from the track day.
http://www.speedtoys.com/pics/10_27_28/Page.htmlIf
anyone else who attended, has photos to be added, please respond with
how I
can get em online here ASAP.
Bob will be doing a team3s page specifically
as well, but were trying to
get the Speedtoys page updated.
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:12:05
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>Well..then nobody's racing
then, no problems. And..yes, there are
>limitations. When I
pick a car to race, the limitation that bans me from
>events for 5 years
if I kock someone out of -my- line, goes away. Thats a
>huge
limitation in how you, and the others are driving.
>
Very true. In real
racing, you can tap the guy in front, muscle your way
through, go off the
line, swap a little paint, and get into some real car
to car dicing. It's a
completely different sport from what we do, and the
classes you spoke about
become very important, because the cars are more
equal.
In our more
"gentleman" style of open track, the best we can do is catch up
and politely
wait for a point. Of course, we can wait for the point while
lurking 6 in off
their bumper, but that's about all we can do if the guy
does not want to move
over.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:16:47
-0500
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Carol Smith laid out the basics
for differences between drivers:
- -The main difference between an
beginner and a mid-pack amateur is their
corner entry speeds.
- -The main
difference between a mid-pack amateur and a low level pro is their
corner
exit speeds.
and finally,
- -The main difference between a pro and an
expert is their *MID-CORNER*
speeds.
You want to go faster and keep up
with the big boys? Work on the driver.
You ask if your car can keep
up with other cars, I ask if the driver can
keep up with the other
drivers.
- -Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
Zobel, Kurt <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>;
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our cars really
that fast?
>
> >Of course, if you're not looking for
trophies, but just want to go out
and
> have a great time at the track,
and also have the best combination of
looks
> and street performance
for the money, then you have the right car.
> >
> I want to keep
up with the fast guys. I know I can't run down a TransAm
> car, but I'd
like to keep up with all the other streetable, license-plate,
>
door-slammers out there. I don't want to be laughed at in the locker
room,
> if you get my drift.
>
> If I had a fortune, I'd buy a
Z06 or a Cobra R or an AWD Porsche. I don't
> have a fortune, so I gotta
make do with what I got.
>
> My only question is, am I following the
correct path to keep up with the
> bad boys? Or should I move to a
different car, one that is more easily
> moddable for the same
money?
>
> So far, it looks like the VR4 is still the correct
choice.
>
> Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:18:28
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Are our cars really that fast?
Not many times --- the formula for kinetic
energy, which is what you have to
dissipate, is as follows ----- K = ½MV².
The result is Mass is in kilograms,
Velocity is in meters per second and the
result K is in ergs.
You can see that the dominant issue is speed ----
you double the speed you
have 4 times the energy to get rid of in the form of
heat.
Jim
Berry
===============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
I think I read somewhere, that a minor increase in speed, can result in
>
many X the increase in braking required.
> > Just take a look at
track records for various tracks.
> > For cars to get within shouting
range of another class which is 500 to 1000 lbs lighter than they.. it takes
twice as much
horsepower, twice as much braking, twice as much tire
patch.
> >
> > Unfortunately that twice as much usually
translates to 3 or 4 times the moola.
> > So if you are intent on
collecting trophies or winning championships, well you have the wrong car.
Unless you can get a new
class started for cars over 3500 lbs with 3.0 or
less turbo, then we would come out shining.
> >
> > Of course,
if you're not looking for trophies, but just want to go out and have a great
time at the track, and also have the
best combination of looks and street
performance for the money, then you have the right car.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:28:31
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Are our cars really that fast?
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
In our more "gentleman" style of open track, the best we can do is catch
up
> and politely wait for a point. Of course, we can wait for the point
while
> lurking 6 in off their bumper, but that's about all we can do if
the guy
> does not want to move over.
You ought to come out to
Sears Point and run a NASA event --- in group 3
session 4 you can pass
anywhere and not much pointing was going on.
Group 4 is a pass anywhere, and
while not done with abandon, it requires
that you pay close attention to
what's going on. You are allowed to pass
without a point by ---- you are not
allowed to swap paint.
I thought it to be great fun ---- I was going to
move up to group 4 but the track
at Sears Point was tougher to learn than I
expected so I stuck with group 3.
Maybe day two of the next
event.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:33:37
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>You want to go faster and
keep up with the big boys? Work on the driver.
>You ask if your car
can keep up with other cars, I ask if the driver can
>keep up with the
other drivers.
>
That's a real cute, pat answer. Thanks for sharing
that wonderful insight.
Maybe I should attend driver school!
But it begs the question about cars. It's one thing to work on the
entry
and exits, but it's quite another to watch a Z08 or a Viper accelerate
away
from you down the straight, after you just spent six corners running
it
down. I just want my hardware to be the best it can be for the money I
have
to spend. That was my question.
By the way, I think it's Carroll
Smith, not Carol Smith. I could be wrong,
but one's a guy, one's a
girl.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:48:45
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are
our cars really that fast?
This discussion sure has gone on a tangent,
hasn't it? Essentially what
you're saying is, your skills as a driver
are reasonably the same as those
with the Z06s and the Vipers, but you lack
the machinery to put yours skills
to full use. Namely in the straights where
it's more about raw power and
less about skill. Now correct me if I'm
wrong, but your motor is more or
less stock, correct?
Why not just
upgrade the damn thing and go out there and kick some butt? :)
You don't
need to get into a massive time and money project to get on the
same power
level as most of the other cars. A pair of bolt-on DR500 turbos
are
about $1300 and will give you a serious increase over where you are now.
It
won't be Viper level power, but it might just give you the edge you need.
Get
the power closer to equal and let use the AWD to make up the
difference.
There are plenty of cost-effective upgrades out there that don't
require a
fortune and an engineering degree to install. If you want a
stock car that
can take a Z06 in any situation, then just buy another
Z06. But if you want
your Mitsu to be on a similar level to them, it's
going to take a little
work.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Merritt
Sent: Tuesday,
October 30, 2001 3:34 PM
To: Volthause; 3000GT
Subject: Re: Team3S: Are
our cars really that fast?
>You want to go faster and keep up with the
big boys? Work on the driver.
>You ask if your car can keep up with
other cars, I ask if the driver can
>keep up with the other
drivers.
>
That's a real cute, pat answer. Thanks for sharing that
wonderful insight.
Maybe I should attend driver school!
But it begs
the question about cars. It's one thing to work on the entry
and exits, but
it's quite another to watch a Z08 or a Viper accelerate away
from you down
the straight, after you just spent six corners running it
down. I just want
my hardware to be the best it can be for the money I have
to spend. That was
my question.
By the way, I think it's Carroll Smith, not Carol Smith. I
could be wrong,
but one's a guy, one's a girl.
Rich
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:48:34
-0500
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Yes, I'm fully aware that you're
attending driver schools. My point was to
keep it up. So you
spent 6 corners chasing down a Z08, and then you watch
it out accelerate you
out of a corner? Why? He got a better line on the
corner and was
able to attain a higher exit speed. Or were you not really
"chasing"
him down? Were you watching him get farther away from you at
every
corner?
You want a car that will truly respond well to mods and be an
excellent
track car for cheap? Get a Porsche 944 Turbo. Can't
beat it
bang-for-the-buck. Just be sure to replace those ball joints
with the real
thing, and not re-mans. They go out, and it's
ugly.
My track car? '91 VW GTI.
Carroll, Carol... you know
who I was talking about. He's usually a pompous
a-hole, but sometimes
he spews out some good stuff.... akin to the million
moneys on a million
typewriters typing for a million years....
- -Scott Holthausen
'94
VR4
> That's a real cute, pat answer. Thanks for sharing that
wonderful insight.
> Maybe I should attend driver school!
>
>
But it begs the question about cars. It's one thing to work on the entry
>
and exits, but it's quite another to watch a Z08 or a Viper
accelerate
away
> from you down the straight, after you just spent six
corners running it
> down. I just want my hardware to be the best it can
be for the money I
have
> to spend. That was my
question.
>
> By the way, I think it's Carroll Smith, not Carol
Smith. I could be wrong,
> but one's a guy, one's a girl.
>
>
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:53:17
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> But it begs the question
about cars. It's one thing to work
> on the entry and exits, but it's
quite another to watch a Z08
> or a Viper accelerate away from you down
the straight, after
> you just spent six corners running it down. I just
want my
> hardware to be the best it can be for the money I have to
> spend. That was my question.
You can certainly make a 3/S
accelerate as quick (or quicker) down the
straight as a Viper or Z06.
Better flowing exhaust and
intake/intercooler/fuel/turbo mods should get you
there, but reliability
becomes more of a concern with each upgrade.
At
that point you'll want lots of engine monitoring equipment as well...
Parts
break fast. ;-)
To get it as reliable as possible, I'd probably
consider a recipe to be
something like this:
15G turbos (or whatever
you prefer)
Larger sidemount intercoolers (Dynamic Racing's new
ones?)
VPC/ARC-2
Your choice of reliable boost controller with overboost
alarm/cutoff
550cc or 660cc injectors
Supra fuel pump
Rewire fuel pump
wiring with good stuff and a relay to the battery
Full exhaust from turbos
back (no cat(s))
Your choice of intake setup
Datalogger
Dual EGT
gauge
Fuel pressure gauge
Nice big visible boost gauge
"Real" water
temp gauge
Lots of tuning (on the safe-side - not squeezing every last HP out
of the
car)
Knock Alert
Possibly water injection as a safety
precaution
Consider forged pistons
You can get the same power with
less mods, but if you want to do it reliably
where you can be beating on the
car all day you are really going to have to
consider doing most of those
modifications.
My opinions only, obviously people will disagree (as they
usually do).
Trust me, it's a lot easier and less expensive to do it the
right way the
first time than rebuild a trashed motor.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:55:54
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> You don't need to get
into a massive time and money project
> to get on the same power level as
most of the other cars. A
> pair of bolt-on DR500 turbos are about
$1300 and will give
> you a serious increase over where you are
now.
I'd recommend against roadracing with those turbos without upgrading
the
fuel system to go along with it. Anything over stock turbos for
long
periods of time at wide-open pretty much demands bigger fuel
injectors.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:05:45
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are
our cars really that fast?
DR500s are a 13G class turbo and are barely
larger (if any) than the stock
Japanese and Euro turbos that came stock on
the car. The principal
difference is they flow enough air to keep the
engine fed to 15 psi at
redline, as opposed to dropping off to around 10-11
psi. Last time we
covered this, the JDM and Euro cars had the same
injectors we do. If they
can hold the boost, so can we. I agree
that larger injectors and fuel
management are good for added safety and boost
beyond 14.5, but I wouldn't
call them NECESSARY with such a minor upgrade as
the DR500.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Tuesday,
October 30, 2001 3:56 PM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our
cars really that fast?
> You don't need to get into a massive time
and money project
> to get on the same power level as most of the other
cars. A
> pair of bolt-on DR500 turbos are about $1300 and will
give
> you a serious increase over where you are now.
I'd recommend
against roadracing with those turbos without upgrading the
fuel system to go
along with it. Anything over stock turbos for long
periods of time at
wide-open pretty much demands bigger fuel injectors.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:24:50
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
My biggest problem in tackling
a project like this is lack of knowledge.
For example, the only people I know
with any kind of experience and who are
willing to help with a boost
controller are Curt and Oskar, five hours
away in Minneapolis.
I have a
Supra pump and 560 cc injectors ready to put on, but I don't have
all the
other stuff, and I don't know anybody in the area who is familiar
with our
cars. I'd like to take it someplace, give the shop X dollars, and
say, "make
it go fast." There doesn't appear to be anyone around here who
can do that,
although I have heard of a shop in Omaha and one in
Southern
Indiana.
I am not going to buy all that equipment, download
Roger's pages, and
attempt these kinds of mods myself. I'll blow a hole in a
piston sure as
hell if I do. What I've done so far is relatively
harmless,
understandable, and does not affect reliability.
But that
is a great laundry list you compiled, so I'll save it for the day
when I have
enough money (what, about $5 K?) to buy the parts and get
someone to put it
in. Meanwhile, I'll keep sneaking up with minor mods.
From what I am
seeing on the list here, the consensus is that the car will
reward me with
the performance I need to keep up.
Thanks.
Rich
>To get
it as reliable as possible, I'd probably consider a recipe to
be
>something like this:
>
>15G turbos (or whatever you
prefer)
>Larger sidemount intercoolers (Dynamic Racing's new
ones?)
>VPC/ARC-2
>Your choice of reliable boost controller with
overboost alarm/cutoff
>550cc or 660cc injectors
>Supra fuel
pump
>Rewire fuel pump wiring with good stuff and a relay to the
battery
>Full exhaust from turbos back (no cat(s))
>Your choice of
intake setup
>Datalogger
>Dual EGT gauge
>Fuel pressure
gauge
>Nice big visible boost gauge
>"Real" water temp
gauge
>Lots of tuning (on the safe-side - not squeezing every last HP out
of the
>car)
>Knock Alert
>Possibly water injection as a
safety precaution
>Consider forged pistons
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:12:34
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
At 03:48 PM 10/30/01 -0500,
Jeff VanOrsdal wrote:
>This discussion sure has gone on a tangent, hasn't
it? Essentially what
>you're saying is, your skills as a driver are
reasonably the same as those
>with the Z06s and the Vipers,
Yes,
from what I've seen. Just a bunch of rich doctors and
Internet
millionaires.
Instructors are, of course, far better than I
am.
but you lack the machinery to put yours skills
>to full
use. Namely in the straights where it's more about raw power and
>less
about skill. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but your motor is more
or
>less stock, correct?
I have Alamo intercoolers and a K&N,
but that's it. I put a Stillen
downpipe on last week
>
>Why not
just upgrade the damn thing and go out there and kick some butt? :)
That
was the purpose of my question in the first place. Namely, if I
upgrade the
thing, will THE CAR be competitive with the big boys?
>
>You don't
need to get into a massive time and money project to get on the
>same
power level as most of the other cars. A pair of bolt-on DR500
turbos
>are about $1300 and will give you a serious increase over where
you are now.
>It won't be Viper level power, but it might just give you
the edge you need.
Isn't there more involved that just bolting up turbos?
If I thought it was
that easy, I woulda done that long ago. I thought you had
to get boost
controllers, injectors, fuel pump, AFC, and everything else at
the same time.
>Get the power closer to equal and let use the AWD to
make up the difference.
>There are plenty of cost-effective upgrades out
there that don't require a
>fortune and an engineering degree to
install. If you want a stock car that
>can take a Z06 in any
situation, then just buy another Z06. But if you want
>your Mitsu to
be on a similar level to them, it's going to take a little
>work.
I
don't mind the work or the expense. I just wanted to know that the CAR
would
be competitive if I did so.
Thanks, Jeff. That was a much more useful
answer.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:34:51
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Off Topic: spins
Yes, it is an actual manuever. its often taught
at drivers schools, just to get people familiar with what spins feel like.
In fact, I just happened to do such a manuever at Sears Point this
weekend.
After two laps of saying, gee these esses feel just a little
tricky, the next lap I spun at the third bump strip. Just trying to crank it up
a little too fast.
By the end of the day I was catching most everyone
thru those same esses, never felt like a problem.
Kurt (not highly
trained, but willing to learn)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Zach
Sauerman [mailto:axemaddock@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 8:41
PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Off Topic: spins
This is off topic, but an issue I have to
get to the bottom of before my
mind burns up.
I am sure everyone has seen
the new Nissan commercial where they show all
different views of the car on
a road and a bridge and in strange lights.
(don't worry, I will not betray
our society and buy a nissan.) At the end
the car spins on the road but
never moves from its straight-line path. Is
this an actual maneuver? Last
week everyone was talking about e-brake turns,
so I have been thinking about
this, but I can't quite get it to work. Was
this commercial one of those
smoke and mirror jobs involving computers, or
did they actually somehow spin
that car in a straight line? Was the car
modified to do this?
And if this
is possible, and when I am in the market for new tires, can I
try something
like this? I know the drivers are highly trained, but cars are
for fun.
I
appologize for filling up your mailboxes, but I am at the end of my
rope.
Zach Sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:44:20
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>> I agree that larger
injectors and fuel management
>> are good for added safety and boost
beyond 14.5,
>> but I wouldn't call them NECESSARY with such
a
>> minor upgrade as the DR500.
Maybe, maybe not. Let's
see:
2.972L, 6000 RPM, 95% VE, 2.0 PR (~14.5 psi boost) is about 600
cfm
air. Mass air flow might be around 2475 lb/hr. Fuel needed might
be
about 200 lb/hr or 2080 cc/min or 125 lph. This does not include
any
extra fuel to quell knock.
A stock fuel pump at 12 V should
produce just about 125 lph at 15 psi
boost. Stock 360 fuel injectors would be
running at 96% IDC.
So basically both the pump and injectors would be
running at full
capacity. This is never a safe or healthy situation - far too
much
chance for knock or burnt pistons. So if the question is "Is
it
possible (14.5 psi boost at 6000 RPM with stock fuel system)?",
then
the answer is yes. If the questions is "Is it safe or
practical?",
the answer is no (in my opinion); running 14+ psi boost to 6000+
RPM
requires at a minimum 450 cc/min injectors, 255 lph fuel pump,
S-AFC
(the turbo used is irrelevant, but 9Bs won't get you there).
Air
and fuel flow calculators:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-air-fuel-flow.htmFuel
pump upgrade guide:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htmTurbo
upgrade guide:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our cars really
that fast?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:55:18
-0500
From: "Alan C. Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: DR500 turbos was[ Are our cars really that fast?]
Just a note on
the dr500 turbos. I'm planning on installing them in my car
when $$$ permits.
Becasue of this I've done a decent amount or resarch
into
them.
Acctoding to Matt at Dynamic Racing. If you install the
DR500's do not run
over 12psi on a stock pump. If you want to be able to get
to 15psi upgrade
your fuel pump.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:59:55
-0600
From: Shane Thoms <
shanethoms@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Why isn't there a MAF/Injector
upgrade package out there for us like
the F*rd boys? (both are say 30%
oversized)
Seems it would be nicer than messing with an
AFC?
Shane
> >> I agree that larger injectors and fuel
management
> >> are good for added safety and boost beyond
14.5,
> >> but I wouldn't call them NECESSARY with such a
>
>> minor upgrade as the DR500.
>
>Maybe, maybe not. Let's
see:
>
>2.972L, 6000 RPM, 95% VE, 2.0 PR (~14.5 psi boost) is about
600 cfm
>air. Mass air flow might be around 2475 lb/hr. Fuel needed might
be
>about 200 lb/hr or 2080 cc/min or 125 lph. This does not include
any
>extra fuel to quell knock.
>
>A stock fuel pump at 12 V
should produce just about 125 lph at 15 psi
>boost. Stock 360 fuel
injectors would be running at 96% IDC.
>
>So basically both the pump
and injectors would be running at full
>capacity. This is never a safe or
healthy situation - far too much
>chance for knock or burnt pistons. So if
the question is "Is it
>possible (14.5 psi boost at 6000 RPM with stock
fuel system)?", then
>the answer is yes. If the questions is "Is it safe
or practical?",
>the answer is no (in my opinion); running 14+ psi boost
to 6000+ RPM
>requires at a minimum 450 cc/min injectors, 255 lph fuel
pump, S-AFC
>(the turbo used is irrelevant, but 9Bs won't get you
there).
>
>Air and fuel flow
calculators:
>http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-air-fuel-flow.htm
>
>Fuel
pump upgrade
guide:
>http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htm
>
>Turbo
upgrade
guide:
>http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm
>
>Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
>-----
Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
>To: "Team3s Tech
List" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Sent:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 2:05 PM
>Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our cars
really that fast?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:31:45
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Pears Point track day
I was just reviewing my videos of Sears Point ---
while day one was pretty
frustrating day two was indeed fun. I found the
track to be technical and
intimidating ---- walls everywhere. Session 1 was
passing on the straight
only, progressing to session 4, with passing
anywhere.
I managed to improve my times from about 1:45 on Saturday to
the high
30's on Sunday --- 1:36 was my best with about 2 more seconds
easily
picked up and another 2 or 3 with a lot of work.
My main problem
was the realization that I needed to drive my car home,
the esses while not
particularly complex are lined by concrete K barriers.
Turn 9, the cutoff
added because of construction, was one of those PITA
corners where no matter
how you do it doesn't feel like you did it right.
The next sequence
of corners 2 thru 5 are a series of medium speed
corners requiring
concentration and car control --- I got it right
occasionally but for the
most part I spent the afternoon searching for the
right line --- generally an
early apex was the demon to be conquered.
I have a nice video sequence with
my car pointed about 90º from the
line ---- yikes. My superior skills and
lighting quick reflexes saved the day
again --- yeah right, like luck didn't
save my ass.
The carousel, about 270º was another PITA for me ---- I
took it too
tight rather than the wide line, followed by hard
acceleration and diving to
the apex and drifting to the outside of the track
--- a lot of speed can be
generated for the short straight leading into the
hairpin. Finally a corner
that I felt in control of --- nothing fancy but I
managed to carry a lot of
speed through that section only to be thwarted by
those damned esses and
the dreaded K barriers.
I like the track
--- I like the people who were with me ----- it's too far to
drive --- I've
become a racing whore and I'll do what is necessary to drive
my car
fast --- I'll be better and faster next
time.
Jim
Berry don't brake, it only
slows you down
===================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@team3s.com>
Cc: <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:32 PM
Subject: 3S-Racers: Photos from the track
day.
>
http://www.speedtoys.com/pics/10_27_28/Page.html>
>
If anyone else who attended, has photos to be added, please respond with
>
how I can get em online here ASAP.
>
> Bob will be doing a team3s
page specifically as well, but were trying to
> get the Speedtoys page
updated.
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:43:53
+1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
: RE: Team3S: Are our cars
really that fast?
> DR500s are a 13G class turbo and are barely larger
(if any) than the stock
> Japanese and Euro turbos that came stock on the
car.
Japaneese cars come with 9Bs, same as USA
spec
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:50:41
+1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogging
questions
Where can you buy a pocket
logger?
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:50:17
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> Why isn't there a
MAF/Injector upgrade package
> out there for us like the F*rd boys?
(both
> are say 30% oversized) Seems it would be nicer
> than
messing with an AFC?
Good question... Some form of modified MAF
that output a flow signal
matched to a set of larger injectors could be a
good upgrade. The most
logical way to do it (as far as I can see) would
be to take some hotwire MAF
meter and make a conversion box to convert the
voltage level output from the
hotwire and convert it to frequency pulses so
that the factory ECU can
understand the signal. Just figure out the
proper calibrations and you'd be
in business...
This is basically what
the Split-Second ARC-2 provides, with adjustability
built-in for different
sized injectors and "tweaking". But I agree, a
full-blown "kit"
pre-calibrated would be a nice thing.
The DSM guys have something set up
like that - TRE makes it. Its a hotwire
MAF with a converter to emulate
the factory Karman vortex style meter (same
as what is factory on 3/S cars)
with dip switches to select
450/550/660/720cc injectors. It still
requires some form of other fuel
controller, but using that kit alone should
get you a pretty close baseline
tune so tweaking would be easier.
http://www.teamrip.com/afcMASC.htmlIt
wouldn't be directly compatible with our cars since ours use the 2G
style
airflow meter, but if they made a 2G DSM version it would only be a
matter
of a different calibration to have it work on our cars. The 1G
DSM version
costs $410.
Could be an interesting possibility of they
were interested in working with
a few of us to construct a
prototype.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 2001 06:38:30
MST
From: Mark Creekmore <
mcreekmore@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re:
Team3S: Datalogging questions]
Go to:
http://www.pocketlogger.com/If
you don't already have a palm, I would suggest an M100. You can get one
for
around $100.
Mark
"Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogging
questions
Where can you buy a pocket
logger?
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:35:05
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Well Since my car is "under
construction" at the moment I will
volunteer. Has anyone dealt with
this place before, really do not want to
deal with a hack an slash type of
place. Any suggestions/questions I
should ask?
Also the place is in Michigan any local owner's wanna check the
place
out and post a reply?
full-blown "kit" pre-calibrated would be a nice
thing.
> The DSM guys have something set up like that - TRE makes
it. Its a
> hotwire
> MAF with a converter to emulate the
factory Karman vortex style meter
> (same
> as what is factory on
3/S cars) with dip switches to select
> 450/550/660/720cc injectors.
It still requires some form of other fuel
> controller, but using that kit
alone should get you a pretty close
> baseline
> tune so tweaking
would be easier.
>
>
http://www.teamrip.com/afcMASC.html>
> It wouldn't be directly compatible with our cars since ours use the
2G
> style
> airflow meter, but if they made a 2G DSM version it
would only be a matter
> of a different calibration to have it work on our
cars. The 1G DSM
> version
> costs $410.
>
>
Could be an interesting possibility of they were interested in working
>
with
> a few of us to construct a prototype.
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:57:02
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Road
Racing
It seems to me not long ago you road racers (including the old
poop) were complaining that this net was used primarily by us drag racers.
It seems now you got your wish as there seems to be few of us left. I do drag
race and have raced all of the cars in a straight line that you are competing
against at the track. This includes Viper's, Z06,s and just about
everything on four wheels. Needless to say my car is heavly modified,
producing around 700 HP at the crank, however I have no trouble at all
beating all of these cars handily in a quarter mile. I have yet to be
beaten by a "street car". I believe our cars are capable of holding there
own against any street car when properly modified. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:16:16
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are
our cars really that fast?
>>>Japaneese cars come with 9Bs, same
as USA spec
So could you tell me why so many people who have bought
Japanese salvage
engines have gotten 13Gs with them? If it was just a
matter of people
scoring already upgraded engines, I'd think we'd see more
variety in the
turbos. 15Gs, Greddy kits, etc. Whether it was
optional or standard, some
of the JDM cars did come with 13G
turbos.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Steve Cooper
Sent: Tuesday,
October 30, 2001 11:44 PM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: Re: Team3S: Are
our cars really that fast?
: RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that
fast?
> DR500s are a 13G class turbo and are barely larger (if any)
than the stock
> Japanese and Euro turbos that came stock on the
car.
Japaneese cars come with 9Bs, same as USA
spec
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 06:20:28
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Road Racing
So, Charles, what are your 1/4 miles times/speed
with 700 crank HP?
List of relevant mods would be nice also.
Thanks.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ---
StealthCT@aol.com wrote:
> It seems to
me not long ago you road racers (including the old
> poop) were
complaining that this net was used primarily by us drag
> racers. It
seems now you got your wish as there seems to be few of
> us left. I do
drag race and have raced all of the cars in a
> straight line that you are
competing against at the track. This
> includes Viper's, Z06,s and
just about everything on four wheels.
> Needless to say my car is heavly
modified, producing around 700 HP
> at the crank, however I have no
trouble at all beating all of
> these cars handily in a quarter
mile. I have yet to be beaten by a
> "street car". I believe
our cars are capable of holding there own
> against any street car when
properly modified. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 06:25:07
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
The GReddy and HKS kits for
*our cars* are 13Gs - the Mitsu Sport
Turbo Upgrade. 15G and other hybrids
are stricly an American
phenomenon (with the notable exception of MK and SL
with the 18T).
The Japanese owners are just buying what is most easily
available to
them - and the product is Japanese. :)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- --- Jeff
VanOrsdal <
jeffv@1nce.com>
wrote:
> >>>Japaneese cars come with 9Bs, same as USA
spec
>
> So could you tell me why so many people who have bought
Japanese
> salvage
> engines have gotten 13Gs with them? If it
was just a matter of
> people
> scoring already upgraded engines,
I'd think we'd see more variety
> in the
> turbos. 15Gs,
Greddy kits, etc. Whether it was optional or
> standard,
some
> of the JDM cars did come with 13G turbos.
>
> Jeff
VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:39:36
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are
our cars really that fast?
So virtually every owner of a salvaged JDM GTO
purchased the same turbo
upgrade? That's kind of like getting pull-out
2002 Camaro LS1s and finding
LS6 intakes on them. GM installed them
from the factory but since it's not
"common" knowledge (and if you're in
Japan, there's that language barrier)
you'd just assume that all the owners
of 02 Camaros had purchased the LS6
intake aftermarket. I think we may
be in the same situation over here.
They were more likely a factory option
that most owners opted for before
purchase. I mean, if you could have
ordered factory installed 13Gs on YOUR
car for another $1000, wouldn't
you?
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Wednesday,
October 31, 2001 9:25 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
The GReddy and HKS kits
for *our cars* are 13Gs - the Mitsu Sport
Turbo Upgrade. 15G and other
hybrids are stricly an American
phenomenon (with the notable exception of MK
and SL with the 18T).
The Japanese owners are just buying what is most easily
available to
them - and the product is Japanese. :)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- --- Jeff
VanOrsdal <
jeffv@1nce.com>
wrote:
> >>>Japaneese cars come with 9Bs, same as USA
spec
>
> So could you tell me why so many people who have bought
Japanese
> salvage
> engines have gotten 13Gs with them? If it
was just a matter of
> people
> scoring already upgraded engines,
I'd think we'd see more variety
> in the
> turbos. 15Gs,
Greddy kits, etc. Whether it was optional or
> standard,
some
> of the JDM cars did come with 13G turbos.
>
> Jeff
VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:00:49
-0800
From: Rick Pierce <
piercera@pacbell.net>
Subject: Fw:
JSpec Turbos was Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Hey
guys,
From personal experience, my used JSpec does have the 13Gs - and
the other 2 3Si
owners at the time (Matt and Hans) also had the 13Gs.
But I also know of an
Australian who bought an entire JSpec GTO and he wound
up with 9Bs. Roger has
maintained for quite sometime that JSpecs only
came with 9Bs stock, so I do
think it more of a crap shoot not a
guarantee. I was just really happy when I
checked mine on the palette
and 1) there was zero play in the turbo shafts and
2) they were 13Gs (you can
see the two staged turbine wheel easily when the
engine is
out).
Rick
>----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff
VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
>
To: "Team3s Tech List" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>; "Jeff
Lucius"
> <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:39 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our
cars really that fast?
>
>
> > So virtually every owner of
a salvaged JDM GTO purchased the same turbo
> > upgrade? That's
kind of like getting pull-out 2002 Camaro LS1s and finding
> > LS6
intakes on them. GM installed them from the factory but since it's
not
> > "common" knowledge (and if you're in Japan, there's that
language barrier)
> > you'd just assume that all the owners of 02
Camaros had purchased the LS6
> > intake aftermarket. I think we
may be in the same situation over here.
> > They were more likely a
factory option that most owners opted for before
> > purchase. I
mean, if you could have ordered factory installed 13Gs on YOUR
> > car
for another $1000, wouldn't you?
> >
> > Jeff
VanOrsdal
> > 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
> >
jeffv@1nce.com> >
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > Of Jeff Lucius
>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:25 AM
> > To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> >
>
>
> > The GReddy and HKS kits for *our cars* are 13Gs - the Mitsu
Sport
> > Turbo Upgrade. 15G and other hybrids are stricly an
American
> > phenomenon (with the notable exception of MK and SL with
the 18T).
> > The Japanese owners are just buying what is most easily
available to
> > them - and the product is Japanese. :)
>
>
> > Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com> >
>
> --- Jeff VanOrsdal <
jeffv@1nce.com> wrote:
> > >
>>>Japaneese cars come with 9Bs, same as USA spec
> >
>
> > > So could you tell me why so many people who have bought
Japanese
> > > salvage
> > > engines have gotten 13Gs
with them? If it was just a matter of
> > > people
>
> > scoring already upgraded engines, I'd think we'd see more
variety
> > > in the
> > > turbos. 15Gs, Greddy
kits, etc. Whether it was optional or
> > > standard,
some
> > > of the JDM cars did come with 13G turbos.
> >
>
> > > Jeff VanOrsdal
> > > 1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
> > >
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:05:45
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Road
Racing
Here is some of my go fast mods.
Carbon Fiber Drive
Shaft
Paxton external fuel pump
AAM fuel rails and duel braided fuel
lines
720CC injectors
S-AFC
VPC
Greddy boost controler
18G (TD05)
Turbo's (ported)
AAM headers, down pipe, and exhaust
AAM front mount
intercooler
Upgraded ignition system
Engine blueprinted and bored 20
over
Forged pistons (coated) and rods
Intake (upper and lower)
honed
Heads ported
K&N intake
EGT,Boost pressure,A/F, and fuel
pressure gauges
Light weight Volk Racing Wheels
NOS
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:12:13
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
I'm sorry, but I find 700 hp to be rather
unbelieveable. Has it been
dynoed? How long can it produce
700 hp? Is this really representative of
"our cars", or is this some kind of
mutant?
Chuck Willis (Charles the First)
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
StealthCT@aol.com
[SMTP:StealthCT@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:57
AM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Road Racing
>
> It seems to me not long ago you
road racers (including the old poop) were
> complaining that this net was
used primarily by us drag racers. It seems
> now you got your wish
as there seems to be few of us left. I do drag race
> and have raced all
of the cars in a straight line that you are competing
> against at the
track. This includes Viper's, Z06,s and just about
> everything on
four wheels. Needless to say my car is heavly modified,
> producing
around 700 HP at the crank, however I have no trouble at all
>
beating all of these cars handily in a quarter mile. I have yet to
be
> beaten by a "street car". I believe our cars are capable of
holding there
> own against any street car when properly modified.
Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:16:41
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
Chuck/List, if this guy? is Brian B from CT
then I do not doubt him. his
car in May was running 11.8x consistently off of
a pair of 15G turbos, now
with 18G's and more experience I sense a high ten
second car if the tranny
stays together. Of course this is
IMHO
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:12 AM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Road Racing
>
> I'm sorry, but I find 700 hp
to be rather unbelieveable. Has it been
> dynoed? How
long can it produce 700 hp? Is this really representative of
> "our cars",
or is this some kind of mutant?
>
> Chuck Willis (Charles the
First)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
From:
StealthCT@aol.com
[SMTP:StealthCT@aol.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:57
AM
> > To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Team3S: Road Racing
> >
> > It seems to me not long
ago you road racers (including the old poop)
> were
> >
complaining that this net was used primarily by us drag racers. It
>
seems
> > now you got your wish as there seems to be few of us left. I
do drag
> race
> > and have raced all of the cars in a straight
line that you are competing
> > against at the track. This
includes Viper's, Z06,s and just about
> > everything on four
wheels. Needless to say my car is heavly modified,
> > producing
around 700 HP at the crank, however I have no trouble at all
> >
beating all of these cars handily in a quarter mile. I have yet to
be
> > beaten by a "street car". I believe our cars are capable
of holding
> there
> > own against any street car when properly
modified. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:23:31
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
saw the post about his list of mods - would like
him to put a dollar figure
on each and total it up, might equal a
Ferrari!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Furman, Russell
[SMTP:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:17
AM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Road Racing
>
> Chuck/List, if this guy? is Brian B from CT then I do not doubt
him. his
> car in May was running 11.8x consistently off of a pair of 15G
turbos, now
> with 18G's and more experience I sense a high ten second car
if the tranny
> stays together. Of course this is
IMHO
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:50:40
-0500
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Cold tranny shifts hard
Hey everyone -
I recently had my 6-speed
tranny rebuilt, and now its back in and
running. But, I have a real
real bad problem with it when its cold. It
won't shift worth a
crap. I mean, 2nd gear grunts at me a little bit,
3rd, 4th, 5th are all
notchy, and reverse is nearly impossible!
It was rebuilt by M&S
Recycling, and I have Redline fluid in 'er (2qts
MT90, 1qt MTL mix) in
it. I don't think the fluid is low, I put almost
all 3 qts into
it. I will check the level in today to be sure though.
Any
ideas?
Thanks!!!
Ken
- --
Ken Stanton
Organizer - 3SI
Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates
007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
RPS Stage II,
6-speed transmission (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3
Stereo
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:55:11
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Cold tranny shifts hard
Could the tolerances be too
tight? Does the problem go away once you have
been driving for a
while? If you let the car just "warm-up" is it as bad?
Trying to come
up with some sort of idea here.... especially since the 5-6
conversion is on
my mind for a mid may project.
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Ken Stanton [SMTP:tt007ken@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31,
2001 10:51 AM
> To: Team3S Stealth
> Subject: Team3S: Cold tranny
shifts hard
>
> Hey everyone -
>
> I recently had my
6-speed tranny rebuilt, and now its back in and
> running. But, I
have a real real bad problem with it when its cold. It
> won't shift
worth a crap. I mean, 2nd gear grunts at me a little bit,
> 3rd,
4th, 5th are all notchy, and reverse is nearly impossible!
>
> It
was rebuilt by M&S Recycling, and I have Redline fluid in 'er (2qts
>
MT90, 1qt MTL mix) in it. I don't think the fluid is low, I put
almost
> all 3 qts into it. I will check the level in today to be
sure though.
>
> Any ideas?
> Thanks!!!
>
>
Ken
>
> --
> Ken Stanton
> Organizer - 3SI Rochester
(NY)
> '91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
> Super Snoopy - Plates
007KEN
> FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
> RPS
Stage II, 6-speed transmission (5-6 speed conversion)
> Aiwa MP3
Stereo
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:58:56
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Drag Racing (was Road Racing)
And the 1/4 mile times/speed?
Thanks,
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: <
StealthCT@aol.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:05 AM
Subject: Team3S: Road
Racing
Here is some of my go fast mods.
Carbon Fiber Drive
Shaft
Paxton external fuel pump
AAM fuel rails and duel braided fuel
lines
720CC injectors
S-AFC
VPC
Greddy boost controler
18G (TD05)
Turbo's (ported)
AAM headers, down pipe, and exhaust
AAM front mount
intercooler
Upgraded ignition system
Engine blueprinted and bored 20
over
Forged pistons (coated) and rods
Intake (upper and lower)
honed
Heads ported
K&N intake
EGT,Boost pressure,A/F, and fuel
pressure gauges
Light weight Volk Racing Wheels
NOS
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:06:29
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Drag racing (was Road Racing)
Funny. My impression has been
that 18G cars run slower than 15G cars
in the 1/4 mile. :)
Does
anyone have proof otherwise? In fact, has any member beat the
times below
with 16G, 18G, 18T, 357, 368, 399, or 20G turbos? (Note I
left out Jack's
faster run with 17Gs.)
An example with 15G turbos: 11.303 @ 122.54 mph
and 11.387 s @ 125.76
by our own Jack T. (aka xwing).
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To:
"'Team 3S'" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Road
Racing
Chuck/List, if this guy? is Brian B from CT then I do not
doubt him.
his car in May was running 11.8x consistently off of a pair of
15G
turbos, now with 18G's and more experience I sense a high ten
second
car if the tranny stays together. Of course this is
IMHO
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:35:19
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Road Racing
The question that seems to be asked is: Are we the king of
the hill ?
Of course not, in stock form the car is quite capable, in heavily
form it is quite exceptional --- however --- it is not a Mclaren or
a
Ferrari F60. If you spent enough time and money you could probably
get
it into the Ferrari Challange area of performance.
The car was designed
as a heavy 4 seat [ almost ] touring car, not a
world class supercar. Horse
power seems to be fairly easy to come by,
spend $15 to 20 large with the
right people and you have a 600+ hp car.
Are you a world beater --- not yet.
Take 1000+ pounds out of the car as
Geoff has started to do ---- gut it,
replace the glass with plastic, replace
anything you can with carbon fiber [
doors, hood, hatch drive shaft etc ].
And on and on and on ---- wait, maybe a
tube frame with carbon fiber --
well you can see where that's going
!!!
In short, bring money and you can be anything you want. Maybe the
answer, as Darren so ineloquently put it, is, I should just stay 1 group
down from where I think I belong. I have some shots of a Viper and a
Z06
terrorizing the group 3 crowd --- I have no idea what they were
doing in our
group other than having fun passing
people.
Jim
Berry having fun is worth 90% of the
final grade.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:14:53
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Road Racing
I agree...but.
Turn the wheel to exit the
drag at 130Mph, and you start to understand
where HP isnt the overall factor
here.
Theres _so_ much that $ cant overcome when you are 1000lbs heavier
than
your competition.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001
StealthCT@aol.com wrote:
> It
seems to me not long ago you road racers (including the old poop) were
complaining that this net was used primarily by us drag racers. It seems
now you got your wish as there seems to be few of us left. I do drag race and
have raced all of the cars in a straight line that you are competing against at
the track. This includes Viper's, Z06,s and just about everything on four
wheels. Needless to say my car is heavly modified, producing around 700 HP
at the crank, however I have no trouble at all beating all of these cars
handily in a quarter mile. I have yet to be beaten by a "street
car". I believe our cars are capable of holding there own against any
street car when properly modified. Regards Charles
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:21:06
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Road Racing
> In short, bring money and you
can be anything you want. Maybe the
> answer, as Darren so ineloquently
put it, is, I should just stay 1 group
> down from where I think I
belong. I have some shots of a Viper and a
> Z06 terrorizing the group 3
crowd --- I have no idea what they were
> doing in our group other than
having fun passing people.
- ---
Jim..youre backwards here.
Go
in the group -you- can learn more from. its not about the car.
I
can handily kick ass in Group-4 in the MR-S, but not against the high
HP
cars..BUT I can out-handle them.
You learn more from the people in
the group, than just having a better
car.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:34:56
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Road
Racing
A member of one of the BMW clubs took pictures of the car and
posted them on the web. If you go to the 3SI Internation Org web site and
search for the thread "eyecandy" you will find pictures of the car. One of
the pictures will show you the fuel pump and where it is installed. The
car is a 94 TT with a 99 front end conversion to accomidate the huge FMIC.
This car is not a mutant nor a kids toy. I am older than the "old poop"
and probably anyone else on this net and I race this car regularly. I
agree about the car being overweight and have done nothing to change that other
than the wheels, drive shaft and flywheel, however even with all the weight on
the street and at the drags there are few cars that can equal it and I have been
racing for 45 years. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:27:28
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Road Racing
Of course it'll help.
The RX7 is all of
2800lbs I think and we dyno'd at like 260rwhp...and I
was just able to out
handle a Z06 (damon was with me I think), but it was
able to slightly outgun
me in straights.
Gimme a VR4 at 3100lbs and a stock drivetrain + ICs,
boost, and
brakes..and Id bet Id could destroy both.
On Wed, 31
Oct 2001, Michael Crisfield wrote:
>
> My friend Paul owns a 86
Porsche 911 Turbo (AWD), has done a little
> autocross, owned several
Porsches, and seems to be a competent driver. When
> I spoke with
him about purchasing a Stealth/3000GT TT he told me that back
> in 1991
his friend bought a brand new 1991 Dodge Stealth TT. His friend
>
couldn't drive a stick yet and the dealership was quite far from his
house
> so he asked Paul to fly (train, bus, I can't remember) there and
drive it
> back with him. Paul warned me that he didn't like the way
it handled.
>
> From what I've read and seen at Dynamic Racing's
web site (Matt's 11
> sec Stealth), I believe that you could tune a 3000GT
TT to beat a Corvette,
> BMW, or Porsche in a straight line but could you
out handle them? If not
> then would reducing weight significantly
(like what Geoff's doing), help you
> out handle those aforementioned cars
or are they just engineered so much
> better that no amount of weight
reduction or suspension modification will
> let you meet or beat them
through the turns? I'm curious myself. I want to
> believe
that a 3000GT TT can handle as well as M3 or a Porsche but is that
>
really true? Geoff how do the 3000GTs you've driven compare to your
RX7?
> Do you think weight reduction will help?
>
>
Thanks,
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31,
2001 9:35 AM
> To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Road Racing
>
>
> The question that
seems to be asked is: Are we the king of the hill ?
> Of course not, in
stock form the car is quite capable, in heavily
> form it is quite
exceptional --- however --- it is not a Mclaren or a
> Ferrari F60. If you
spent enough time and money you could probably
> get it into the Ferrari
Challange area of performance.
>
> The car was designed as a heavy
4 seat [ almost ] touring car, not a
> world class supercar. Horse power
seems to be fairly easy to come by,
> spend $15 to 20 large with the right
people and you have a 600+ hp car.
> Are you a world beater --- not yet.
Take 1000+ pounds out of the car as
> Geoff has started to do ---- gut it,
replace the glass with plastic, replace
> anything you can with carbon
fiber [ doors, hood, hatch drive shaft etc ].
> And on and on and on ----
wait, maybe a tube frame with carbon fiber --
> well you can see where
that's going !!!
>
> In short, bring money and you can be anything
you want. Maybe the
> answer, as Darren so ineloquently put it, is, I
should just stay 1 group
> down from where I think I belong. I have some
shots of a Viper and a
> Z06 terrorizing the group 3 crowd --- I have no
idea what they were
> doing in our group other than having fun passing
people.
>
> Jim
Berry having fun is worth 90% of the
final grade.
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:56:03
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand - A
correction
Has anyone directly compared 1st gen and 2nd gen rods
yet?
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Forged connecting
rods STOCK. Proof is at hand -
A correction
I just happen to have two
first gen short blocks in storage. 1 NA
and 1 TT. Joe also happens to
be local to me. If he's willing, I'll
pull out my spare parts and we
can have one grand ol comparison and
settle this once and for all.
:)
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On
Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent:
Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:22 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand -
A
correction
Thanks for the correction, Joe. And the good news. Forged.
Nice.
So I guess all we need now is for someone to compare, side-by-side,
a
rod from 91-93 to a 94+ rod (to confirm or deny CAPS which says
all
years are the same). Can someone do this for us? Unfortunately, I
did
not get back the old rods from my '92 engine
rebuild.
Thanks,
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#661
***************************************