Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, October 30
2001 Volume 01 : Number
660
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:35:29 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Portland area people...
> > should have had ECS if it
is a true 95 VR-4. You said it had NOT
> > sunroof? I
thought all VR-4s in second gen had either a manual or
> > auto
sunroof. If this is the case then this is a hybrid 95 and a
> >
first gen with second gen panels, etc. Not sure. Clarification on
> > this perhaps? Date of mfg on driver door jam perhaps?
>
Nope. I've got a '94 VR4 with no sunroof.
My '94 VR4 didn't have a
sunroof either.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:39:52
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Portland area people...
my '94 VR4 has no sunroof, remember
Heartland Park, Flash?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Jannusch, Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Monday, October
29, 2001 12:35 PM
> To: 3000GT
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Portland area
people...
>
> > > should have had ECS if it is a true 95
VR-4. You said it had NOT
> > > sunroof? I thought all
VR-4s in second gen had either a manual or
> > > auto
sunroof. If this is the case then this is a hybrid 95 and a
> >
> first gen with second gen panels, etc. Not sure. Clarification
on
> > > this perhaps? Date of mfg on driver door jam
perhaps?
>
> > Nope. I've got a '94 VR4 with no
sunroof.
>
> My '94 VR4 didn't have a sunroof either.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:47:52
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Portland area people...
Thanks Matt and others. Matt ...
does your '95 Spyder have a sunroof
(grin).
I seem to have recalled
when people were talking about ECS/Active
Aero/Sunroof issues on here and I
thought that similar to the 5-speed
and 6-speed difference in first and
second gen there was also a sunroof
difference.
Obviously there are
'94 and '95 VR-4 cars without sunroofs (weird since
a car half the cost back
then had them). But I think anyone in '94 will
have a manual sunroof
and possibly ECS. Anyone in '95 will have either
a manual one and
perhaps ECS or a power one and no ECS.
Might this be shown in the VIN or
the Michael Reid CAPS breakdown based
on options?
My '95 VR-4 was mfg
in either 11/94 or 12/94, has a power sunroof,
Active Aero, no ECS, and no
Active Exhaust. I remember at a gathering
when some other '95 owners
asked if mine was perhaps a 94.5 or a 95.5
model year. I don't know
that but know what it has.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4, power sunroof, Active
Aero
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent:
Monday, October 29, 2001 13:35
My '94 VR4 didn't have a sunroof
either.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:53:55
-0800
From: Rich <
rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Updated: 60k workshop page
Christopher:
Christopher
Deutsch wrote:
>
> Speaking of the 60K and the FAQ. Wouldn't
the redesigned end yoke holder
> work if you didn't use a socket on the
crank shaft pulley? I was having
> problems with my "alternate"
method, until I realized that I didn't need a
> socket. The bolt
accepts a 1/4 inch drive wrench.
It accepts a 1/2"
drive.
> I'm not sure but from the picture on the FAQ it looks like
the tool would
> work quite well if you don't use a socket on your
wrench. Can anyone
> verify this?
It works no better using
only the 1/2" drive. Rather than risk rounding
out or splitting the
bolt from the amount of torque required, I use a
socket.
> Of
course the "special" tool is still over priced, but maybe the redesigned
> wasn't as stupid as mentioned in the FAQ.
No, IMHO, it's
stupid. Obviously a cost-cutting measure with only a
passing
nod at
functionality.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:58:48
EST
From:
RDO26@aol.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Smoke in the cockpit
Something to consider:
These ECUs
fail because the capacitors leak over time. 6+ years seems to be typical. It
happens more often in in warmer climates too. So, buying a used one that is the
same age as your car and from California will most likely result in another
failure down the line. Check out the Technomotive web site-it and others like it
tell how common a problem this is with Mitsubishi ECUs (which are not limited to
only Mitsubishi cars).
In a message dated Mon, 29 Oct 2001 8:35:26
AM Eastern Standard Time, "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
writes:
> Try M+S Recycling they had advertised that they had various
mitsu ECU's in
> stock.....
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:59:53
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Portland area people...
> Matt ... does your '95 Spyder
have a sunroof (grin).
Yeah, but I always leave it open...
:-)
> Obviously there are '94 and '95 VR-4 cars without sunroofs
> (weird since a car half the cost back then had them). But I
> think anyone in '94 will have a manual sunroof and possibly
>
ECS. Anyone in '95 will have either a manual one and perhaps
> ECS
or a power one and no ECS.
I preferred the '94 without sunroof since it
had more headroom than the one
with sunroof. At the time I bought it,
there was one of each (otherwise
identical) on the showroom floor and I had
my pick.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:15:14
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Portland area people...
True (re: Headroom).
A friend just
sent me this, "My '95 VR4 has ECS and active aero.
No sunroof or active
exhaust." So it appears that when Mitsu was
running out of parts on the
assembly line they just left them off the
cars from that point forward, I
understand that. But it seems as though
the ECS is directly linked to
the manual/power sunroof issue. Either
you have ECS and no power
sunroof or a power sunroof and no ECS.
The tricky part is the manual
sunroof or no sunroof at all. Guess there
are more versions of our car
than I thought.
1. 1994 VR-4 no sunroof
2. 1994 VR-4 manual
sunroof
3. 1994 VR-4 power sunroof
Items 1 and 2 seem to either have
Active Exhaust or not.
Items 1 and 2 seem to always have ECS.
Items 1 and
2 seem to always have Active Aero.
Item 3 seems to never have
ECS.
Item 3 seems to never have Active Exhaust.
Item 3 seems to always
have Active Aero.
Any other variations? Not to mention all the dog
sled, Euro, and Jap
versions?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with power
sunroof, Active Aero, and no ECS or Active Exhaust
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001
14:00
> Matt ... does your '95 Spyder have a sunroof
(grin).
Yeah, but I always leave it open... :-)
I preferred
the '94 without sunroof since it had more headroom than the
one
with
sunroof. At the time I bought it, there was one of each
(otherwise
identical) on the showroom floor and I had my
pick.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:22:36
-0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Updated: 60k workshop page
Oops, yeah I meant 1/2.
Thanks for the info Rich, I'll stay clear of this
tool.
What I think
would have worked great (short of welding something together)
is the idea
Mark Wendlant had of drilling two holes in a 14 inch channel
lock pliers and
sticking bolts threw them. Mark says his works pretty
good.
Unfortunately I spent most of my time trying to drill the damn holes
and
never could get all the way threw. Tip for anyone attempting to
make this
tool: Buy a generic set of pliers! My were brand name
and seem to be quite
indestructible ;)
Thanks for taking the time to
write the 60K guide. I found the info
very
usefull...
Christopher
> No, IMHO, it's stupid.
Obviously a cost-cutting measure with only a
> passing
> nod at
functionality.
>
> Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:08:07
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 1994/1995 build options
> 1. 1994 VR-4 no sunroof
>
2. 1994 VR-4 manual sunroof
> 3. 1994 VR-4 power sunroof
>
>
Items 1 and 2 seem to either have Active Exhaust or not.
> Items 1 and 2
seem to always have ECS.
> Items 1 and 2 seem to always have Active
Aero.
>
> Item 3 seems to never have ECS.
> Item 3 seems to
never have Active Exhaust.
> Item 3 seems to always have Active
Aero.
Are you sure you mean 1994 and not 1995? Most of the "hybrid"
stuff
happened in 1995 when they started switching over to the less
expensive
parts to reduce the build cost. The two 1994 VR4s I looked
at
(side-by-side) were identical in every respect other than one had a
power
sunroof and the other had no sunroof (actually the one I bought had
the
"cast" wheels and the sunroof one had the shiny "chrome" wheels (both
sets
17")). Both had ECS, both had Active Aero, and both had Active
Exhaust.
As far as I remember, 1994 was the last year of the "loaded" VR4
(which is
why I didn't consider '95s at the time), things were phased out
after that
depending on parts availability. 1995 dropped the Active
Exhaust, and in
most cases the ECS. All Spyder variants still have ECS
(1995 and 1996). No
Active Aero in 1996 and later.
1994 seems
pretty consistent, but 1995 is all over the map depending on what
parts were
near the assembly line at the time.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:21:24
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 1994/1995 build options
Well I have a 95 with power sunroof so
that means automatically no ECS.
Friends with 94s have mixes of manual
sunroofs or no sunroofs and ECS
and not. I don't know any of them with
power sunroofs so I will have to
roll through the gathering pix again and see
who I know.
Yes the 94s are consistent. Yes the 95s are all over
the map. Maybe
third shift folks stole all the sunroofs for their line
so their cars
would sell better than first shift folks. Who
knows.
I miss the ECS because no catalog has coilovers for a 95 with a
power
sunroof and no ECS. Can't just put in Ground Control stuff
without
having to cut off a few coils. I gotta wait for the Tein and
Tokico
type ($2k). Ack. What a difference a model year
makes.
But let us not forget about the Stealth line that is supposed to
be
identical other than exterior panels and minor things. No Stealth
comes
stock with a sunroof though, right? Odd.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch,
Matt
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 15:08
Are you sure you mean
1994 and not 1995? Most of the "hybrid" stuff
happened in 1995 when
they started switching over to the less expensive
parts to reduce the build
cost. The two 1994 VR4s I looked at
(side-by-side) were identical in
every respect other than one had a
power
sunroof and the other had no
sunroof (actually the one I bought had the
"cast" wheels and the sunroof one
had the shiny "chrome" wheels (both
sets
17")). Both had ECS, both
had Active Aero, and both had Active Exhaust.
As far as I remember, 1994
was the last year of the "loaded" VR4 (which
is
why I didn't consider '95s
at the time), things were phased out after
that
depending on parts
availability. 1995 dropped the Active Exhaust, and
in
most cases the
ECS. All Spyder variants still have ECS (1995 and 1996).
No
Active
Aero in 1996 and later.
1994 seems pretty consistent, but 1995 is all
over the map depending on
what
parts were near the assembly line at the
time.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:46:41
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
OT: Sears Point Race Report
A fabulous time was had by all! Weather
held out and we had a terrific
turnout for the NASA HPDE (high performance
driving event) at Sears Point on
Saturday/Sunday. Many Team3S members
had done this before - a couple were
doing HPDE for the first time. We
were joined by Team3S Admin Geoff
Mohler's Speedtoys folks, many of whom we
have run with at previous events.
Ken & Geoff's supercharged Lingenfelter
Trans AM and Jay Cena's Lamborghini
Diablo (both ~700 hp), and a gorgeous
Ferrari (360?) were *stunning* pieces
of exotic machinery, and really ate up
the track! For performance in the
nimble-as-hell, under-300-horse
category, Geoff's MR-S and Nissa's RX7 TT
were *stars* all
weekend.
Our Team3S cars were just plain IMPRESSIVE! Sears Point is
a really complex
track, and misleading in it's difficulty. After a slow
start on Saturday
for ALL cars (damp weather Friday night, lots of
construction dust to get
rid of, cold track, cold tires...), our cars really
began to shine out
there, and by Sunday, even 'turbo conservatives' Jim Berry
('93 TT) and Ann
Koch ('94 TT) were eating up Porsches and Vettes pretty
easily. Of the
non-turbos, Kurt Zobel ('96 3000GT NT) proved finally
that his car probably
IS faster than ours ('94 Stealth NT) - I didn't run
next to him, but HE was
able to keep up with Geoff, although G had a
passenger, and he *was*
filming. But I know that I can't keep up with
Geoff! Eileen *did* manage
to pass Kurt once or twice in our car, so
*maybe* our cars are pretty
similar after all... Nice car Kurt!
My WRX buddy came around for about 4
seconds and then went to run in Group 4
with some other friends who were at
the track that day - just as well, since
we had run out of parking spaces...
Damon Rachell ('93 VR4) picked up the
line really early and he and GF
Meredith were just *sailing* around the track
all weekend. A couple of
Damon's "Vette" friends joined us-- Damian
& Heidi (Saturday) and Chris(?)
and Melissa (Sunday). Ken Middaugh
('91 TT, 135k miles) had 'the line'
figured out and was ripping around Turn
8A when unfortunately, one of his
pistons ripped back - megabummer. His
dad drove up from the Southland for
the long tow home. Ken called it an
"opportunity" to upgrade! :-) Jim
Elferdink is one of the more
experienced drivers, and even while getting to
know his new '95 VR4, he was
out near the front of the pack with each run.
Rick Pierce is another veteran
driver and he knew his '92 VR4 wasn't quite
ready for the track so he was
passenger with each of us to give us tips and
learn the new track
configuration for next time...
NASA knew that we had a large group, so
they blocked off an entire section
for us in the Paddock right near the hot
pits (150' x 40'). All of us
gathered around Geoff/Nissa's huge
Speedtoys trailer. We were right on top
of the start-up action, and we
can't say enough nice things about the NASA
programs, their people, their
professionalism, and the way that they treated
us. If you have a NASA
program near you (or even *not so near* - some of
these folks drove 400+
miles to join us!), we recommend that you try out
HPDE. Their website
is
www.nasaproracing.com . To
enable us to get some
photos of our cars, NASA gave us our own parade lap
(just Team3S/Speedtoys
cars!) on Saturday, and we led off the parade lap on
Sunday. We took lots
of photos, so we'll post the URLs on the Speedtoys
and Team3S websites as
soon as we get them arranged.
In way of a
"Thank You" to NASA, we hosted their BBQ on Saturday night.
They provided the
food & beverages (strictly "first cabin" fare), and we
provided the
man/woman power. Geoff can flip a burger almost as well as he
can
drive... :-) The Northern California Chapter of NASA works
closely
with us, and we intend to continue to support them as well.
NASA is having
another HPDE at Sears Point this weekend November 3/4, and a
one-day event
on Nov 11, and a final NorCal HPDE on December 11/12.(I'll post
details
separately). Once again, Geoff and the rest of us will be
helping NASA out
with the BBQs. So for anyone within driving distance,
come join us for more
fun!
More
later,
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:16:39
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
I know that I am guiltier than
most at making outrageous claims about the
superiority of our cars, as
compared to M3s, C5s, 5.0s, 911s, etc. I based
my statements of a year and
two years ago on a desperate plea to get you
folks to come out and play, and
on the relative ease I had in blowing off
such cars in the lower run groups.
I have always thought that our cars are
technically superior to the others,
thus they make:
a) a wonderful, forgiving car to learn in (just fix the
brakes) and
(b) a car that will beat others even while you are learning how
to drive it.
Now that I have graduated into faster run groups, I am not
so sure. Having
been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD Porsches, and race-prepped cars
driven by
instructors, I need some confirmation from our really experienced
open
trackers driving modded cars: Are our cars still superior in higher
level
run groups? I've heard "locker room" talk that we are a bunch of
moving
obstacles in the upper run groups. It's one thing to blow off Dr.
Gotbucks
in his brand new M3 in Group 1, but it's a whole different ball game
when
that M3 is being driven by an instructor.
I am at the point
where, to get competitive with race-prepped cars and
Vipers, I have to think
about some serious mods (read: $$$) or moving on to
another, more suitable
car.
Any advice from the top dogs?
Rich/old poop/still and
underdog
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:43:47
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Are our cars really that fast?
Study your
weight/HP ratios.
Therein lies the real story, or a healty portion of
it.
Available HP/Torque in a road racing environment can be gleamed from
dyno
charts..and thats the other major portion of the story.
The
problem with those..is building a car with GOOD torque down low, but
with a
very VERY even progression in HP all the way to the end of
the
tachometer. This is always a challenge in a turbo car, because
high-end
HP comes at the expense of crap off-boost performance, and
an
ugly/unstable kick in the pands when boost comes on (a road
racers
nightmare).
If we ever finish ours, Id bet I can show up the
Viper/Z06/Porsche crowd
prety easily with a stock motor on mildly upgraded
turbos. Granted the
car will be at or under 3100 total lbs as well with
cage and driver.
But thats the OTHER problem, you are comparing a car
built for people
concerned with status, with cars built for people concerned
with
performance.
On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, Merritt wrote:
> I
know that I am guiltier than most at making outrageous claims about the
>
superiority of our cars, as compared to M3s, C5s, 5.0s, 911s, etc. I
based
> my statements of a year and two years ago on a desperate plea to
get you
> folks to come out and play, and on the relative ease I had in
blowing off
> such cars in the lower run groups. I have always thought
that our cars are
> technically superior to the others, thus they
make:
> a) a wonderful, forgiving car to learn in (just fix the brakes)
and
> (b) a car that will beat others even while you are learning how to
drive it.
>
> Now that I have graduated into faster run groups, I
am not so sure. Having
> been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD Porsches, and
race-prepped cars driven by
> instructors, I need some confirmation from
our really experienced open
> trackers driving modded cars: Are our cars
still superior in higher level
> run groups? I've heard "locker
room" talk that we are a bunch of moving
> obstacles in the upper run
groups. It's one thing to blow off Dr. Gotbucks
> in his brand new M3 in
Group 1, but it's a whole different ball game when
> that M3 is being
driven by an instructor.
>
> I am at the point where, to get
competitive with race-prepped cars and
> Vipers, I have to think about
some serious mods (read: $$$) or moving on to
> another, more suitable
car.
>
> Any advice from the top dogs?
>
> Rich/old
poop/still and underdog
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:38:34
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
=)
I remember I was flamed
because I said our car will
not be able to compete with other highly tuned
cars on
a road course with comparable drivers... I still
believe that
today. The 3S TT is a great street car
and a awesome weekend warrior
toy.. but when step up
to the real big boys with real drivers, we will not
be
on a podium... JMHO~
I'm still waiting for GeoffM to take his VR4
to some
'higher' level type of championship~
/George
- --- Merritt
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
> I know that I am guiltier than most at making
> outrageous
claims about the
> superiority of our cars, as compared to M3s,
C5s,
> 5.0s, 911s, etc. I based
> my statements of a year and two
years ago on a
> desperate plea to get you
> folks to come out and
play, and on the relative ease
> I had in blowing off
> such cars in
the lower run groups. I have always
> thought that our cars are
>
technically superior to the others, thus they make:
> a) a wonderful,
forgiving car to learn in (just fix
> the brakes) and
> (b) a car
that will beat others even while you are
> learning how to drive
it.
>
> Now that I have graduated into faster run groups, I
>
am not so sure. Having
> been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD Porsches,
and
> race-prepped cars driven by
> instructors, I need some
confirmation from our
> really experienced open
> trackers driving
modded cars: Are our cars still
> superior in higher level
> run
groups? I've heard "locker room" talk that we
> are a bunch of
moving
> obstacles in the upper run groups. It's one thing to
> blow
off Dr. Gotbucks
> in his brand new M3 in Group 1, but it's a
whole
> different ball game when
> that M3 is being driven by an
instructor.
>
> I am at the point where, to get competitive
with
> race-prepped cars and
> Vipers, I have to think about some
serious mods
> (read: $$$) or moving on to
> another, more suitable
car.
>
> Any advice from the top dogs?
>
> Rich/old
poop/still and underdog
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:57:03
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Time +
money.
At least Jim Berry got to SEE the car, and I got to show off the
clutch to
some ppl at the track day.
On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, AmkreadGTO
wrote:
> =)
>
> I remember I was flamed because I said
our car will
> not be able to compete with other highly tuned cars
on
> a road course with comparable drivers... I still
> believe that
today. The 3S TT is a great street car
> and a awesome weekend
warrior toy.. but when step up
> to the real big boys with real drivers,
we will not be
> on a podium... JMHO~
>
> I'm still waiting
for GeoffM to take his VR4 to some
> 'higher' level type of championship~
>
> /George
> --- Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
> > I know that I am guiltier than most at making
> >
outrageous claims about the
> > superiority of our cars, as compared to
M3s, C5s,
> > 5.0s, 911s, etc. I based
> > my statements of a
year and two years ago on a
> > desperate plea to get you
> >
folks to come out and play, and on the relative ease
> > I had in
blowing off
> > such cars in the lower run groups. I have
always
> > thought that our cars are
> > technically superior
to the others, thus they make:
> > a) a wonderful, forgiving car to
learn in (just fix
> > the brakes) and
> > (b) a car that
will beat others even while you are
> > learning how to drive
it.
> >
> > Now that I have graduated into faster run groups,
I
> > am not so sure. Having
> > been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD
Porsches, and
> > race-prepped cars driven by
> > instructors,
I need some confirmation from our
> > really experienced open
>
> trackers driving modded cars: Are our cars still
> > superior in
higher level
> > run groups? I've heard "locker room" talk that
we
> > are a bunch of moving
> > obstacles in the upper run
groups. It's one thing to
> > blow off Dr. Gotbucks
> > in his
brand new M3 in Group 1, but it's a whole
> > different ball game
when
> > that M3 is being driven by an instructor.
> >
> > I am at the point where, to get competitive with
> >
race-prepped cars and
> > Vipers, I have to think about some serious
mods
> > (read: $$$) or moving on to
> > another, more
suitable car.
> >
> > Any advice from the top dogs?
>
>
> > Rich/old poop/still and underdog
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:43:44
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Well, that's
the trick isn't it? Anybody have any "comparable drivers"?
Seems to me
that it's like baseball, the best can have a bad day and the
mediocre can
have a grand day. I really think the course itself has
an
influence - some courses (short and twisty) favor Miata's over
Corvettes.
What good is all that horsepower, if the course doesn't allow you
to use it?
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
AmkreadGTO [SMTP:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001
3:39 PM
> To: Team3S;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>
>
=)
>
> I remember I was flamed because I said our car will
>
not be able to compete with other highly tuned cars on
> a road course
with comparable drivers... I still
> believe that today. The 3S TT
is a great street car
> and a awesome weekend warrior toy.. but when step
up
> to the real big boys with real drivers, we will not be
> on a
podium... JMHO~
>
> I'm still waiting for GeoffM to take his VR4 to
some
> 'higher' level type of championship~
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:03:40
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Next
time..perhaps..someone will let me haul em around for at least 2
sessions in
an open run group (like 4) and I'll see what I can get one
to
do.
Moving from the Fbody, to the Mr-S, to the RX7 if
nothing..proves
adaptability on the fly. *laugh*
On Mon, 29 Oct
2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> Well, that's the trick isn't
it? Anybody have any "comparable drivers"?
> Seems to me that it's
like baseball, the best can have a bad day and the
> mediocre can have a
grand day. I really think the course itself has an
> influence
- some courses (short and twisty) favor Miata's over Corvettes.
> What
good is all that horsepower, if the course doesn't allow you to use it?
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
From: AmkreadGTO [SMTP:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October
29, 2001 3:39 PM
> > To: Team3S;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> >
> > =)
> >
> > I remember I was flamed because I
said our car will
> > not be able to compete with other highly tuned
cars on
> > a road course with comparable drivers... I still
>
> believe that today. The 3S TT is a great street car
> > and
a awesome weekend warrior toy.. but when step up
> > to the real big
boys with real drivers, we will not be
> > on a podium... JMHO~
>
>
> > I'm still waiting for GeoffM to take his VR4 to some
>
> 'higher' level type of championship~
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:03:00
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
My concern too.
Hope it's
not true.
I'll bet you didn't get flamed over here though...must have been on
a
different list.
Rich
>
>I remember I was flamed because I
said our car will
>not be able to compete with other highly tuned cars
on
>a road course with comparable drivers... I still
>believe that
today. The 3S TT is a great street car
>and a awesome weekend
warrior toy.. but when step up
>to the real big boys with real drivers, we
will not be
>on a podium... JMHO~
>
>I'm still waiting for
GeoffM to take his VR4 to some
>'higher' level type of championship~
>
>/George
>--- Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
>> I know that I am guiltier than most at making
>>
outrageous claims about the
>> superiority of our cars, as compared to
M3s, C5s,
>> 5.0s, 911s, etc. I based
>> my statements of a
year and two years ago on a
>> desperate plea to get you
>>
folks to come out and play, and on the relative ease
>> I had in
blowing off
>> such cars in the lower run groups. I have
always
>> thought that our cars are
>> technically superior to
the others, thus they make:
>> a) a wonderful, forgiving car to learn
in (just fix
>> the brakes) and
>> (b) a car that will beat
others even while you are
>> learning how to drive it.
>>
>> Now that I have graduated into faster run groups, I
>> am
not so sure. Having
>> been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD Porsches,
and
>> race-prepped cars driven by
>> instructors, I need some
confirmation from our
>> really experienced open
>> trackers
driving modded cars: Are our cars still
>> superior in higher
level
>> run groups? I've heard "locker room" talk that
we
>> are a bunch of moving
>> obstacles in the upper run
groups. It's one thing to
>> blow off Dr. Gotbucks
>> in his
brand new M3 in Group 1, but it's a whole
>> different ball game
when
>> that M3 is being driven by an instructor.
>>
>> I am at the point where, to get competitive with
>>
race-prepped cars and
>> Vipers, I have to think about some serious
mods
>> (read: $$$) or moving on to
>> another, more suitable
car.
>>
>> Any advice from the top dogs?
>>
>> Rich/old poop/still and underdog
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:12:00
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
now please
don't flame me for this....but where can I find twin turbo
porch or a wiper
for 15,000?(oops mis-spelled) I would gladly write
anyone a check if
these cars are for sale. You must all agree that
for the money this car is
absolutly awesome (VR4). If I had a wiper I
would sell it and buy a vr4 for
each day of the week...."gee honey,
no lets not go to dinner in the minivan
so we all can fit and ride
together...lets each take a car and race for the
bill" I will take
the "lower class" anyday. call me trailer trash or call me
lower or
under expeirenced on the track......bottom line.....We have nice
cars.
Would aone of those 700hp cars flip burgers for the masses? I
doubt
it.....he would think tube steak is meat for the poor...one
step
below
spam......oooohhhhhh
...sssspppaaaaaammmmmmmmm..uuuugggggggg!(homer
voice)
gimee the 3s anyday........everyday....hell I get passed on
the
freeway by B210's.......who cars if a wiper can do
it....
JMHO
bobK.
Rich...your lack of faith in the force
disturbs me.
- ---- Original Message ----
From:
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.orgTo:
3sracers@speedtoys.com,
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct
2001 15:43:44 -0600
>Well, that's the trick isn't it? Anybody
have any "comparable
>drivers"?
>Seems to me that it's like
baseball, the best can have a bad day and
>the
>mediocre can have a
grand day. I really think the course itself
>has
an
>influence - some courses (short and twisty) favor Miata's over
>Corvettes.
>What good is all that horsepower, if the course
doesn't allow you to
>use it?
>
>Chuck
>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From: AmkreadGTO
[SMTP:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:39
PM
>> To: Team3S;
3sracers@speedtoys.com>>
Subject: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
>>
>> =)
>>
>> I remember I was flamed because I said
our car will
>> not be able to compete with other highly tuned cars
on
>> a road course with comparable drivers... I still
>>
believe that today. The 3S TT is a great street car
>> and a
awesome weekend warrior toy.. but when step up
>> to the real big boys
with real drivers, we will not be
>> on a podium... JMHO~
>>
>> I'm still waiting for GeoffM to take his VR4 to some
>>
'higher' level type of championship~
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:05:59
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
> now please don't flame me
for this....but where can I find
> twin turbo porch or a wiper for
15,000?(oops mis-spelled) I
> would gladly write anyone a check if
these cars are for sale.
That wasn't the point of the discussion
though... It was whether or not we
could hang with the higher-end
roadracing cars (Viper, Porsche, Z-06) in the
higher more modified (and more
experienced) classes on the track.
Bang-for-the-buck, the 3/S has a lot going
for it.
> If I had a wiper I would sell it and buy a vr4
> for
each day of the week...."gee honey, no lets
> not go to dinner in the
minivan so we all can
> fit and ride together...
Oh, now come
on... I can fit SOOO many people in my VR4. Right.
Be
realistic - the back seats are there, but its just plain wrong to say
it
fits four with any sort of comfort. My car is even worse than yours
- the
back seats are merely holders for two sacks of groceries.
>
We have nice cars.
That isn't in question. No need to "dis" other
nice cars in the process.
Nothing wrong with a Porsche or Viper if that's the
kind of car someone
decided to buy. If there was room in my garage and
I didn't already have my
"summer toy" I'd consider either one.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 2001 17:47:48
-0600
From: Jon Bohlke <
bohlke_mobile@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Tire stability after repair
I was lucky enough to run over a 3/8"
screw last week. Amazingly the
tire shop was able to patch the
tire. The hole was pretty much in the
middle of the tire. The
tires (18" Yokohamas) have low miles on them
and I really don't want to
replace them but I want to take the car to
the track next year. What I really
want to know is if the tire is safe
to run on the track now that it has been
patched? Thoughts?
Jon Bohlke
Pearl White 98 3000GT VR4
http://3000gt.websnout.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:43:36
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire stability after repair
You'll have no
problems.
The only people who consider that a problem..are people running
at the
limit of the tire for very extended periods of time (IE: Silver
state
classic road race)
On 29 Oct 2001, Jon Bohlke wrote:
>
I was lucky enough to run over a 3/8" screw last week. Amazingly
the
> tire shop was able to patch the tire. The hole was pretty much
in the
> middle of the tire. The tires (18" Yokohamas) have low
miles on them
> and I really don't want to replace them but I want to take
the car to
> the track next year. What I really want to know is if the
tire is safe
> to run on the track now that it has been patched?
Thoughts?
>
> Jon Bohlke
> Pearl White 98 3000GT VR4
>
http://3000gt.websnout.comGeoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:48:04
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Datalogging questions
Hi Folks,
A few logging questions...
the log shows:
1) O2: 0.96v then drops to 0.86v
2) Inj p/w: 19-20
ms
3) Timing: 18 - 27 degrees
4) Knock: 5-8
The following are
conditions/mods: 1.3bar boost,
GT357, 550cc, HKS fuel pump, ARC, 30% 100oct +
70% 91
oct fuel mix, 3rd gear pull @ full throttle..
The knock level
should be acceptable right? Should I
try to rich it up a bit to get the knock
sum down? How
do I tell if the injectors are maxed out??
Thanks in
advance for any input/comments!
Best,
George
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:57:10
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tire stability after repair
> I was lucky enough to run over a
3/8" screw last week. Amazingly the tire
shop was able to patch the
tire. The hole was pretty much in the middle of
the tire. The
tires (18" Yokohamas) have low miles on them and I really
don't want to
replace them but I want to take the car to the track next
year. What I really
want to know is if the tire is safe to run on the track
now that it has been
patched? Thoughts?
> Jon Bohlke
> Pearl White 98 3000GT
VR4
>
http://3000gt.websnout.com-
-------------------------->
The recognized "rule of thumb" is that a
patched tire is re-rated at the
next lowest speed rating. I picked up a
3/8" screw at Thunderhill in June
(265/35ZR18 Yoko AVS Intermediates) and ran
the rest of the weekend with it
IN the tire; then, a circuitous 800 mile trip
back to SF after a brief
holiday a week later (and we had totally forgotten
about the screw). I got
the tire repaired and found the other front
also had a similar screw (both
with heads worn off after 1000 miles of
driving), so I repaired it too and
switched them both to the rears (time to
rotate, anyway). Between the two
of us, Eileen and I have since run 6
HPDE (and we both run flat out),
without even losing air. BTW, if
you've read other list threads on
inflation, we run cold pressures of
46F/40R. Modern repairs are pretty
secure, I would say...
;-) You have more to worry about on badly potted
highways than on
smooth tracks at twice the speed, IMO.
At SP this past weekend, on the
last run she played "lawn girl", and we
picked up a bad vibration that we
felt all the way back from the track.
We'll be getting the tires and
suspension checked tomorrow, and will report
how the tires "scope out" on the
high-speed machine... YMMV, but probably
little or no need to
worry. A nail can slip out, but a screw stays in
pretty tightly.
And after repair, it's almost as good as new, minus one
"rating"
level.
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:25:55
-0800 (PST)
From: jim dewbre <
ltjdew@athlonoc.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 91 stealth v6 tt crank angle sensor
Does anyone know how to
test a crank angle sensor ive got the manual but i cant find any info on how to
test it. My car quit running the other day and the coil and power control unit
test out ok. It will turn over but no fire to the
plugs.
thanks jim
dewbre
meadow
texas
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:34:08
-0800
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re; are
our cars really.........
Put a professional driver in a 3S and have him
perform head to head with
like drivers, in the cars you believe are so much
better. That is the only
solution. And the driver has to believe he can beat
the others, not just put
in the laps until he can slide his ass back in the
car of his choice.
Rich, IMHO you have merely run into the next wall in
your evolution, called
doubt, spawned by the professionals/experts you are
now seeing as the
competition. Before they were your gurus ;-) When
your skills are as
theirs, then you can answer the question. I my opinion,
the 3S will give
them all a run for their money. As one member has already
pointed out, some
courses favor Miatas.
Best
Darc...with a hard
drive about to go ;-(
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 21:40:44
-0700
From: "Zach Sauerman" <
axemaddock@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Off Topic: spins
This is off topic, but an issue I have to get to
the bottom of before my
mind burns up.
I am sure everyone has seen the
new Nissan commercial where they show all
different views of the car on a
road and a bridge and in strange lights.
(don't worry, I will not betray our
society and buy a nissan.) At the end
the car spins on the road but never
moves from its straight-line path. Is
this an actual maneuver? Last week
everyone was talking about e-brake turns,
so I have been thinking about
this, but I can't quite get it to work. Was
this commercial one of those
smoke and mirror jobs involving computers, or
did they actually somehow spin
that car in a straight line? Was the car
modified to do this?
And if this
is possible, and when I am in the market for new tires, can I
try something
like this? I know the drivers are highly trained, but cars are
for fun.
I
appologize for filling up your mailboxes, but I am at the end of my
rope.
Zach Sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:55:29
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Off Topic: spins
It can be either a real move or a
simulation. A computer-simulation is
the easiest to handle (similar to
the Enterprise commercial where the
Convertible is morphed from the Minivan
which is morphed from a Sedan,
etc.).
To do this in real life the
Nissan people would not be able to pay the
driver of the stunt enough money
(since they would most likely have to
pay the really experienced race car
drivers for the trick). I thought I
recalled that the scenery changed
from road to bridge and different
lights, backgrounds, etc. Maybe
not.
Anyway -- my bet is that it is done with a computer. Not too
much
off-topic since Winter is fast approaching in the Northeast (already
had
snow last week) and these kinds of turns are possible in wet,
gravel,
dirt road, snow, ice, etc. on the roads (just ask any rally
guy).
However, the chances of them synchronizing everything perfectly is
slim
to none.
Remember the "Zoom Zoom" Miata commercials? How
the cars (about 8 of
them) weave in and out of each other in perfect
harmony? Sure bet that
is computer-simulated too. That way you
pay one driver, use one car,
and pay a few computer graphics guys. That
beats paying 8 drivers,
using 8 cars, etc. They just cut and paste the
car and move it to the
other lane. And they are always in
harmony.
(If we find out it is a real driver then I will be
flabbergasted. Like
they say ... "A closed mouth gathers no
foot.")
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Zach Sauerman
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 11:41
PM
This is off topic, but an issue I have to get to the bottom of
before my
mind burns up.
I am sure everyone has seen the new Nissan
commercial where they show
all
different views of the car on a road and a
bridge and in strange lights.
(don't worry, I will not betray our society
and buy a nissan.) At the
end
the car spins on the road but never moves
from its straight-line path.
Is
this an actual maneuver? Last week
everyone was talking about e-brake
turns,
so I have been thinking about
this, but I can't quite get it to work.
Was
this commercial one of those
smoke and mirror jobs involving computers,
or
did they actually somehow
spin that car in a straight line? Was the car
modified to do this?
And if
this is possible, and when I am in the market for new tires, can
I
try
something like this? I know the drivers are highly trained, but cars
are
for fun.
I appologize for filling up your mailboxes, but I am at the end
of my
rope.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:00:56
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Off Topic: spins
Was
>this commercial one of those
smoke and mirror jobs involving computers, or
>did they actually somehow
spin that car in a straight line? Was the car
>modified to do
this?
>And if this is possible, and when I am in the market for new tires,
can I
>try something like this? I know the drivers are highly trained,
but cars are
>for fun.
Yes, it is possible to spin a car around in
its own length. Top rally
drivers will do it when they lose their brakes to
stop the car at a
checkpoint. Stunt drivers do it all the time. It's easiest
on a wet road,
gravel, dirt, ice or snow, but it can be done on dry pavement,
too.
The easiest "bootlegger" turn is done in reverse. Back up as fast
as you
can in a straight line, then whip the wheel very hard to the right or
left.
The car will snap around in its own length. Try it on gravel first, or
a
wet parking lot. The trick is to get up a good head of speed. Don't
start
at 70 mph in reverse. Start at 10 mph, and keep increasing the speed
until
it snaps around.
To spin it around going forward, bang on the
brakes, get it down to about
10-15 mph, then grab the handbrake and turn the
wheel at the same time. Try
it on gravel or in the wet first. Again, it will
turn in its own length.
Pump up the tires to 40 psi or so so they don't
roll under.
It'll be very easy if you wait for snow.
Rich/old
poop.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:35:49
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Off Topic: spins
Honestly, this forwards 180 is very easy to
do.
I have successfully taught three of my friends to do this in
anything
froma Mazda MX-6 to my car to a Eclipse.
I teach my
friends to start at 30 MPH in a big empty parking lot, but it
can easily be
done on a two lane road with proper experience.
It can also be
done properly up to 45 MPH, although it's a lot trickier
when you want to
stop, or keep rolling in reverse.
Generally it goes like
this:
(to do a left handed 180)
30 MPH, drop tranny into neutral,
jerk steering wheel briefly to the
right to upset the cars balance, then yank
on parking brake while
turning the steering wheel hard to the left, and
applying the normal
brakes from very gentle at first to full-on (if you want
to stop from
rolling backwards, if not, don't use the regular brakes much at
all),
then let up on the parking brake.
If done correctly, you
should be pointing the exact opposite way that
you were.
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Merritt
Sent: Monday,
October 29, 2001 11:01 PM
To: Zach Sauerman;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Off Topic: spins
Was
>this commercial one of those
smoke and mirror jobs involving computers,
or
>did they actually
somehow spin that car in a straight line? Was the car
>modified to do
this?
>And if this is possible, and when I am in the market for new tires,
can
I
>try something like this? I know the drivers are highly trained,
but
cars are
>for fun.
Yes, it is possible to spin a car around
in its own length. Top rally
drivers will do it when they lose their brakes
to stop the car at a
checkpoint. Stunt drivers do it all the time. It's
easiest on a wet
road,
gravel, dirt, ice or snow, but it can be done on
dry pavement, too.
The easiest "bootlegger" turn is done in reverse.
Back up as fast as you
can in a straight line, then whip the wheel very hard
to the right or
left.
The car will snap around in its own length. Try it
on gravel first, or a
wet parking lot. The trick is to get up a good head of
speed. Don't
start
at 70 mph in reverse. Start at 10 mph, and keep
increasing the speed
until
it snaps around.
To spin it around
going forward, bang on the brakes, get it down to
about
10-15 mph, then
grab the handbrake and turn the wheel at the same time.
Try
it on gravel
or in the wet first. Again, it will turn in its own length.
Pump up
the tires to 40 psi or so so they don't roll under.
It'll be very easy if
you wait for snow.
Rich/old poop.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:59:59
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Off Topic: spins
I don't believe the original question was "How
do you do a J-turn" or
"How do you do a 180-parking brake turn." It was
along the lines of,
"Can a car roll forward, do a 360-degree spin, and end up
facing in
exactly the same direction it started?" That is a lot harder
to do. I
thought the Nissan in the commercial did not exhibit the usual
body roll
that a 3,000 pound car will when doing a spin like this over 20
mph. If
it did do that body roll and slight sway at the end then I
have
forgotten that it did.
I just think it is easier, cheaper, more
precise, and more controlled
for the car to be sitting on a blue background
(like so many Hollywood
stunts) and the camera truck drive around the car
360-degrees and then
cut and paste the newly-made car movie into an
environment. This would
allow the environment change from snow to
bridge to water to Mt. Everest
and the car will look like it belongs there
because digitally it does.
A little hard to do with humans although good
stunt drivers perform
miracles.
So this has little to do with the
technicality of it other than choose
wide open lot with no curbs and
lightpoles for practicing.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: cody
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:36
AM
Honestly, this forwards 180 is very easy to do.
I have
successfully taught three of my friends to do this in anything
froma
Mazda MX-6 to my car to a Eclipse.
I teach my friends to start at 30 MPH
in a big empty parking lot, but it
can easily be done on a two lane road with
proper experience.
It can also be done properly up to 45 MPH,
although it's a lot trickier
when you want to stop, or keep rolling in
reverse.
If done correctly, you should be pointing the exact opposite way
that
you were.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:08:39
-0600
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
apedenko@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Off Topic: spins
It's physically possible. If you draw (let's
think back to Highschool now ;)
a free body for what would happen, it's just
converting some of your linear
velocity into angular. The math isn't too
difficult, but it's unnecessary.
The final answer is yes, technically, with
the proper experience a car (or
any other moving object) can perform a turn
about it's axis using some of
it's forward acceleration/momentum (depending
on whether a force is being
applied along the direction of the velocity) and
not stray from it's path.
All that would happen (if done properly) is that
the car would slow down,
thus converting it's forward velocity into angular.
This is in addition to
whatever braking would be necessary for such a
maneuver.
Alex
'95 VR4 with an RPS stage
II
(whenever i get it back from the shop)
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Zach Sauerman" <
axemaddock@hotmail.com>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, October 29, 2001 10:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Off Topic:
spins
> This is off topic, but an issue I have to get to the
bottom of before my
> mind burns up.
> I am sure everyone has seen
the new Nissan commercial where they show all
> different views of the car
on a road and a bridge and in strange lights.
> (don't worry, I will not
betray our society and buy a nissan.) At the end
> the car spins on the
road but never moves from its straight-line path. Is
> this an actual
maneuver? Last week everyone was talking about e-brake
turns,
> so I
have been thinking about this, but I can't quite get it to work. Was
>
this commercial one of those smoke and mirror jobs involving computers,
or
> did they actually somehow spin that car in a straight line? Was the
car
> modified to do this?
> And if this is possible, and when I am
in the market for new tires, can I
> try something like this? I know the
drivers are highly trained, but cars
are
> for fun.
> I
appologize for filling up your mailboxes, but I am at the end of
my
rope.
>
> Zach Sauerman
> '94 Pearl Yellow
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:27:58
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Off Topic: spins
..lets rotate this barge back around to 3S
specifics.
Rotate this discussion to 3sracers if you'z all want to
continue it
please.
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:23:31
+0100 (MET)
From: <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions
George,
The IDC is a function of
pulsewidth and rpm. Send us a link to the TLG file or directly to me. I'd like
to know on what rpm the O2 drop happens. The timing leads me to the assumption
that the ECU sits on the low quality fuel map as well as I feel a fuel pressure
drop. Not sure, but do you have a fuel pressure gauge in the car ?
BTW,
the current version of the datalogger has an additional 0-5V sensor logging
capability that allows you to send a signal to the EGR temp port. My aim is to
log either boost as well as fuel pressure that way.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- original
Nachricht --------
Hi Folks,
A few logging questions... the log
shows:
1) O2: 0.96v then drops to 0.86v
2) Inj p/w: 19-20 ms
3)
Timing: 18 - 27 degrees
4) Knock: 5-8
The following are
conditions/mods: 1.3bar boost,
GT357, 550cc, HKS fuel pump, ARC, 30% 100oct +
70% 91
oct fuel mix, 3rd gear pull @ full throttle..
The knock level
should be acceptable right? Should I
try to rich it up a bit to get the knock
sum down? How
do I tell if the injectors are maxed out??
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:57:32
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire stability after repair
Which Yokohama tire? I
would not drive a patched AO32R onthe track, but a
fully treaded AVS Sport
might be another matter. If so, I would run it on a
rear wheel so you
could still control the car with a catastrophic failure.
Also depends on what
level you're driving at. Novice drivers seldom work
the tires hard
enough to matter.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Jon Bohlke [SMTP:bohlke_mobile@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, October
29, 2001 5:48 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Tire stability after repair
>
> I was lucky enough
to run over a 3/8" screw last week. Amazingly the
> tire shop was
able to patch the tire. The hole was pretty much in the
> middle of
the tire. The tires (18" Yokohamas) have low miles on them
> and I
really don't want to replace them but I want to take the car to
> the
track next year. What I really want to know is if the tire is safe
> to
run on the track now that it has been patched? Thoughts?
>
>
Jon Bohlke
> Pearl White 98 3000GT VR4
>
http://3000gt.websnout.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:06:52
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 91 stealth v6 tt crank angle sensor
CAS testing begins
on page 13-72 in the 1991 3000GT manual (at least
in the one available on
Vinny's CD). You may want to use an analog
VOM if no oscilloscope is
available. Output signal is a square wave
between 0 and 5 volts. More info on
CAS input to ECM on page 16-26.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "jim dewbre" <
ltjdew@athlonoc.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, October 29, 2001 7:25 PM
Subject: Team3S: 91 stealth v6 tt crank
angle sensor
Does anyone know how to test a crank angle sensor ive got
the manual
but i cant find any info on how to test it. My car quit running
the
other day and the coil and power control unit test out ok. It
will
turn over but no fire to the plugs.
thanks jim
dewbre
meadow
texas
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:09:56
-0500
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Datalogging questions
Hey guys!
Please keep this top
on-line!! I'm looking to buy the PocketLogger soon, I would like to hear
what you are finding, and learn! Thanks!!
Ken
- --
Ken
Stanton
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T
TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R,
Improved Precats
Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
6-speed
transmission (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3 Stereo
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch wrote:
>
George,
>
> The IDC is a function of pulsewidth and rpm. Send us a
link to the TLG file or directly to me. I'd like to know on what rpm the O2 drop
happens. The timing leads me to the assumption that the ECU sits on the low
quality fuel map as well as I feel a fuel pressure drop. Not sure, but do you
have a fuel pressure gauge in the car ?
>
> BTW, the current version
of the datalogger has an additional 0-5V sensor logging capability that allows
you to send a signal to the EGR temp port. My aim is to log either boost as well
as fuel pressure that way.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> ----- original
Nachricht --------
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> A few logging
questions... the log shows:
>
> 1) O2: 0.96v then drops to
0.86v
> 2) Inj p/w: 19-20 ms
> 3) Timing: 18 - 27 degrees
> 4)
Knock: 5-8
>
> The following are conditions/mods: 1.3bar
boost,
> GT357, 550cc, HKS fuel pump, ARC, 30% 100oct + 70% 91
> oct
fuel mix, 3rd gear pull @ full throttle..
>
> The knock level should
be acceptable right? Should I
> try to rich it up a bit to get the knock
sum down? How
> do I tell if the injectors are maxed
out??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:48:12
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging questions
On the Tech Page at my web site, I have
two sections devoted to the
TMO datalogger. PocketLOGGER stuff will be there
eventually. I have
links there to Roger Gerl's, Joe Gonsowski's, and Kevin
Schappell's
web pages concerning TMO logs. If other members have datalogger
web
pages, please send me a personal email reply so I can add a link
to
your page(s).
George,
As Roger pointed out, RPM is a critical
piece of info that wasn't
conveyed in your post. IPW means nothing without
RPM (RPM x IPW /
1200 = IDC in percent). Which gear you are in also is
important in
interpreting timing, O2, and IDC.
It would be great to
have a centralized location of datalogs (images
and actual tlg and/or csv
files with interpretations). My web site is
not a good location for this
(among other reasons, geocities does not
allow "weird" file extensions like
"tlg"). Perhaps one of the Team3S
admins could take this on. Roger?
:)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Ken Stanton" <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
To: <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Cc:
"Team3S" <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogging
questions
Hey guys!
Please keep this top on-line!! I'm
looking to buy the PocketLogger
soon, I would like to hear what you are
finding, and learn! Thanks!!
Ken
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:02:56
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Datalogging questions
Hi Roger,
Th log was done with the
pocketlogger. How do I get
the file stored in the Palm to a e-file to
email u??
Hotsync it my computer? Then what? I'll try to figure
it
out when I get home tonight...
No, I dont have a fuel pressure gauge in
the car.. on
a side note, with 50/50 mix of 100oct & 91oct fuel, I
get
ZERO knock in the same condition...
Also, I usually only log:
-
-RPM
- -Throttle Pos
- -Knock
- -O2
- -IDC
- -Timing
IS
there other variable(s) I should be logging??
Thanks for all your
help!
/George
- ---
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch wrote:
>
George,
>
> The IDC is a function of pulsewidth and rpm. Send
us
> a link to the TLG file or directly to me. I'd like
> to know on
what rpm the O2 drop happens. The timing
> leads me to the assumption that
the ECU sits on the
> low quality fuel map as well as I feel a
fuel
> pressure drop. Not sure, but do you have a fuel
> pressure
gauge in the car ?
>
> BTW, the current version of the datalogger
has an
> additional 0-5V sensor logging capability that
> allows you
to send a signal to the EGR temp port. My
> aim is to log either boost as
well as fuel pressure
> that way.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT
TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> -----
original Nachricht --------
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> A few logging questions... the log shows:
>
> 1) O2: 0.96v
then drops to 0.86v
> 2) Inj p/w: 19-20 ms
> 3) Timing: 18 - 27
degrees
> 4) Knock: 5-8
>
> The following are
conditions/mods: 1.3bar boost,
> GT357, 550cc, HKS fuel pump, ARC, 30%
100oct + 70%
> 91
> oct fuel mix, 3rd gear pull @ full
throttle..
>
> The knock level should be acceptable right? Should
I
> try to rich it up a bit to get the knock sum down?
> How
>
do I tell if the injectors are maxed out??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:31:05
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
Rich,
Just take a look at
track records for various tracks.
For cars to get within shouting range of
another class which is 500 to 1000 lbs lighter than they.. it takes twice as
much horsepower, twice as much braking, twice as much tire
patch.
Unfortunately that twice as much usually translates to 3 or 4
times the moola.
So if you are intent on collecting trophies or winning
championships, well you have the wrong car. Unless you can get a new class
started for cars over 3500 lbs with 3.0 or less turbo, then we would come out
shining.
Of course, if you're not looking for trophies, but just want to
go out and have a great time at the track, and also have the best combination of
looks and street performance for the money, then you have the right car.
MHO,
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: AmkreadGTO
[mailto:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 1:39 PM
To:
Team3S;
3sracers@speedtoys.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Are our cars really that fast?
=)
I remember I was flamed
because I said our car will
not be able to compete with other highly tuned
cars on
a road course with comparable drivers... I still
believe that
today. The 3S TT is a great street car
and a awesome weekend warrior
toy.. but when step up
to the real big boys with real drivers, we will not
be
on a podium... JMHO~
I'm still waiting for GeoffM to take his VR4
to some
'higher' level type of championship~
/George
- --- Merritt
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
> I know that I am guiltier than most at making
> outrageous
claims about the
> superiority of our cars, as compared to M3s,
C5s,
> 5.0s, 911s, etc. I based
> my statements of a year and two
years ago on a
> desperate plea to get you
> folks to come out and
play, and on the relative ease
> I had in blowing off
> such cars in
the lower run groups. I have always
> thought that our cars are
>
technically superior to the others, thus they make:
> a) a wonderful,
forgiving car to learn in (just fix
> the brakes) and
> (b) a car
that will beat others even while you are
> learning how to drive
it.
>
> Now that I have graduated into faster run groups, I
>
am not so sure. Having
> been shamed by Vipers, TT AWD Porsches,
and
> race-prepped cars driven by
> instructors, I need some
confirmation from our
> really experienced open
> trackers driving
modded cars: Are our cars still
> superior in higher level
> run
groups? I've heard "locker room" talk that we
> are a bunch of
moving
> obstacles in the upper run groups. It's one thing to
> blow
off Dr. Gotbucks
> in his brand new M3 in Group 1, but it's a
whole
> different ball game when
> that M3 is being driven by an
instructor.
>
> I am at the point where, to get competitive
with
> race-prepped cars and
> Vipers, I have to think about some
serious mods
> (read: $$$) or moving on to
> another, more suitable
car.
>
> Any advice from the top dogs?
>
> Rich/old
poop/still and underdog
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#660
***************************************