Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, October 25 2001
Volume 01 : Number
656
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:58:43 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
Team3S: High Idle.
Well, got the car running very smoothly. Now it
idles at 2000 RPM's...
When it first starts, it starts at 2500 RPMs, then
lowers to 2000. What
could be the deal? Sounds like ISC, but I
wouldn't think the idle would
drop from 2500 to 2000 at all
though?
Any other ideas... Searching the service manuals now...
-
-Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:48:27
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: DETONATION
As long as you are getting enough fuel to start
with..ya.
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, GREG RUSH wrote:
> Can you rule
out detonation by putting some race fuel in the car?
>
> Geoff
Mohler wrote:
>
> > Cleaned it?
> >
> > On
Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> >
> > > sure
you did - it said "cleaned the fuel flter".
> > >
> > >
Checked the spark plug gap - but what was the gap?
> > > Also how
many psi boost is the car running?
> > > How many octane in the high
octane gas?
> > >
> > > Chuck Willis
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:29:10
-0500
From:
kalla@tripoint.orgSubject: Team3S:
knock sensor damage
I've been having strange knock problems for the last
few months.
The VR-4 will run fine most of the time but sometimes when I
shift
into second or third and get on it, the logger will show detonation at
low boost (6-7 psi) and the car loses tons of power as the timing is
retarded. It's time for maintenance on the car anyway, so I've got
the
plenum off I had a look at the knock sensor. It's covered with
this black
looking ooze, which my friend Victor (at Bentley Mitsu)
said is a sign of it
going bad. The wire coming out of the top of it
has lost a lot of the
insulation near where it comes out of the
sensor, and the wire looks kind of
beat up.
Is it time for a new knock sensor?
Walton C.
Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:44:31
-0400
From: Jennifer Ford <
jlford4@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
question
Hi folks,
I've been "lurking" on the digest for awhile; I
enjoy reading what you
all do with your cars, but really have nothing to
contribute as I have
absolutely no technical expertise whatever! I do have a
question for you
all though. Three years ago I bought a beautifully kept
1991, 5-speed
Stealth ES; it is my pride & joy! When the car reached
60,000 miles a
year and a half ago, I wanted to have recommended maintenance
done,
and--like the naive fool that I was--I took it to Firestone. One of
the
things they did was change the timing belt--an expensive
undertaking,
but one I understood to be crucial.
Flash forward to last
May; the car now had 77,000 miles on it. One
morning I merrily got in the
Stealth, fired her up, and kapow: engine
failure. In fact, engine ruination.
It took me some time to find a
mechanic who was both expert & trustworthy
enough to replace the engine.
Ulf, the fellow who did the work, discovered
that the problem was caused
by Firestone's failure to replace the old
tensioner when they replaced
the timing belt. Evidently it broke, which
fouled up the timing belt,
which caused the engine to be ruined. According to
Ulf it was gross
negligence on Firestone's part not to replace the tensioner
when they
replaced the timing belt. He has said that if I go after Firestone
for
damages (this has cost me nearly $3,000 and five months without my
car)
he will testify to their negligence.
My question to you folks--who
obviously know Mitsubishi engines inside
out--is: do you also think that
replacing the tensioner was a "must do"
during the 60,000 mile maintenance,
and that Firestone's failure to do
so might have caused this catastrophe to
occur? I sure don't want to
wade into the world of courts & law suits
without being pretty confident
that I have a proverbial leg to stand
on!
Many thanks in advance for any thoughts you have!
Jennifer
Ford
Pittsburgh, PA
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:46:56
-0400
From: Jennifer Ford <
jlford4@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
question
Hi folks,
I've been "lurking" on the
digest for awhile; I enjoy reading what
you all do with your cars, but really
have nothing to
contribute as I have absolutely no technical expertise
whatever! I do
have a question for you all though. Three years ago
I
bought a beautifully kept 1991, 5-speed Stealth ES; it is my pride
&
joy! When the car reached 60,000 miles a year and a half
ago, I
wanted to have recommended maintenance done, and--like the naive
fool that I
was--I took it to Firestone. One of the
things they did was change the timing
belt--an expensive undertaking,
but one I understood to be
crucial.
Flash forward to last May; the car now had 77,000
miles on it. One
morning I merrily got in the Stealth, fired her up,
and
kapow: engine failure. In fact, engine ruination. It took me some
time
to find a mechanic who was both expert & trustworthy
enough to
replace the engine. Ulf, the fellow who did the work,
discovered that the
problem was caused by Firestone's failure
to replace the old tensioner when
they replaced the timing belt.
Evidently it broke, which fouled up the timing
belt, which caused
the engine to be ruined. According to Ulf it was gross
negligence on
Firestone's part not to replace the tensioner when
they
replaced the timing belt. He has said that if I go after Firestone
for
damages (this has cost me nearly $3,000 and five months
without my
car) he will testify to their negligence.
My question to
you folks--who obviously know Mitsubishi engines
inside out--is: do you also
think that replacing the
tensioner was a "must do" during the 60,000 mile
maintenance, and that
Firestone's failure to do so might have caused
this
catastrophe to occur? I sure don't want to wade into the world of
courts
& law suits without being pretty confident that I have
a
proverbial leg to stand on!
Many thanks in advance
for any thoughts you have!
Jennifer Ford
Pittsburgh, PA
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:59:44
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
tire wear on track DE's
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
I am unhappy with the wear I got from Kuhmos, and running with you guys
at
> Heartland Park showed that your Yokos were the equal of my allegedly
better
> Kuhmos (see, you learn a LOT running with other 3K GTs), so
I'll be
> ordering another set of Yokos for next season.
>
>
> Rich>
That conclusion requires a pretty good leap of
faith --- there are so many
variables between cars and drivers that it would
be a tough call. At my last
outing I ran my 2nd hand Hoosiers and found them
to be much stickier than
the A032's. The bad news was my times didn't improve
the way I thought
they should, I know they were much better in the slow
twisty stuff [ 50 mph ]
and I assume they were in the fast stuff [ 90+ mph ].
My analysis is that I'm
just not pushing hard enough in the high speed
corners --- I'm at 80% and
should be at 95%.
I ran the first session
with the A032's but didn't get a time, I switched to the
Hoosiers and could
feel the difference in stiction but It didn't translate into
lower lap times
--- next time I'll be faster ;-)
I too had a wear problem --- low
pressure I think. I bought a digital
pyrometer so I can moniter temps a
little better, I also bought a good
gauge and will attempt to monitor
pressures better also.
Jim
berry
==================================================
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:04:35
-0700
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question
Absolutely. The timing belt tensioner is what
basically holds the belt
in place! If a tensioner was not replaced or
remanufactured it would
most definitely cause catastrophic engine failure if
it failed. I too
had to replace the engine in my last car, a 1991 ES, (not
from Timing
Belt) and it was not cheap. If you can find a Mitsubishi
certified
mechanic to say that it is part of the 60k service procedure to
replace
the tensioner in a court, that is your best chance. Also see if you
can
find it in a factory repair manual. If you can, you may be able to
get
Firestone to settle out of court. It is always in their best
interests
to stay out of court.
Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer
Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jennifer Ford
Sent:
Wednesday, October 24, 2001 7:45 PM
To:
team3s-digest@mail.speedtoys.comSubject:
Team3S: question
Hi folks,
I've been "lurking" on the digest for
awhile; I enjoy reading what you
all do with your cars, but really have
nothing to contribute as I have
absolutely no technical expertise whatever! I
do have a question for you
all though. Three years ago I bought a beautifully
kept 1991, 5-speed
Stealth ES; it is my pride & joy! When the car reached
60,000 miles a
year and a half ago, I wanted to have recommended maintenance
done,
and--like the naive fool that I was--I took it to Firestone. One of
the
things they did was change the timing belt--an expensive
undertaking,
but one I understood to be crucial. Flash forward to last May;
the car
now had 77,000 miles on it. One morning I merrily got in the
Stealth,
fired her up, and kapow: engine failure. In fact, engine ruination.
It
took me some time to find a mechanic who was both expert &
trustworthy
enough to replace the engine. Ulf, the fellow who did the
work,
discovered that the problem was caused by Firestone's failure to
replace
the old tensioner when they replaced the timing belt. Evidently
it
broke, which fouled up the timing belt, which caused the engine to
be
ruined. According to Ulf it was gross negligence on Firestone's part
not
to replace the tensioner when they replaced the timing belt. He has
said
that if I go after Firestone for damages (this has cost me nearly
$3,000
and five months without my car) he will testify to their negligence.
My
question to you folks--who obviously know Mitsubishi engines
inside
out--is: do you also think that replacing the tensioner was a "must
do"
during the 60,000 mile maintenance, and that Firestone's failure to
do
so might have caused this catastrophe to occur? I sure don't want
to
wade into the world of courts & law suits without being pretty
confident
that I have a proverbial leg to stand on! Many thanks in advance
for any
thoughts you have! Jennifer Ford Pittsburgh, PA
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:26:51
-0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: '91 Steath TT died at a stop sign - will not start
This symptom
is usually the result of the crank angle position sensor going
bad. My
car ran fine when cold, but when it warmed up it would die and not
start --
sometimes for days. Since I've replaced the CAS, the problem
hasn't
returned. Unfortunately, I don't know how to test it other
than
replacing it. See if there is another 3SI member in the area that
you can
swap with.
Good luck,
Ken
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; <
ltjdew@athlonoc.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:10 PM
Subject: Team3S: '91 Steath TT died at a
stop sign - will not start
> {Jim is a new member who I just signed up
- I'm posting this for him to
get
> it on the list ASAP}
>
-----------------------
>
> I have a '91 Stealth TT that died on me
at a stop sign and will not start.
> The battery is hot and it has plenty
of fuel in the tank. It appears to
> have quit firing. Does
anyone have any ideas what could be wrong? I
> checked to see if it
is firing at the plugs, and it is not. Does it have
> some type of
shut off if the fuel pump has gone out and does not pressure
> up?
Maybe an ignition module or the coil has gone out? Any help would
be
> greatly appreciated. What is the best way to check for fuel or
electrical
> prob?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Dewbre
>
Meadow, Texas
> '91 Stealth R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:50:31
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: question
At 08:04 PM 10/24/01 , BlackLight wrote:
>If a
tensioner was not replaced or remanufactured it would
>most definitely
cause catastrophic engine failure if it failed.
Definitely
agree
>If you can find a Mitsubishi certified
>mechanic to say
that it is part of the 60k service procedure to replace
>the tensioner in
a court, that is your best chance.
This is where it will get tricky,
because the tensioner is NOT part of the
60k service. This is just an item
(along with the pulleys and H2O pump)
that is good to replace as a
precaution, but you will be hard pressed to
find it listed in any 60k
service literature.
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
>Of Jennifer Ford
>Sent:
Wednesday, October 24, 2001 7:45 PM
>To:
team3s-digest@mail.speedtoys.com>Subject:
Team3S: question
>
>My
>question to you folks--who obviously
know Mitsubishi engines inside
>out--is: do you also think that replacing
the tensioner was a "must do"
>during the 60,000 mile maintenance, and
that Firestone's failure to do
>so might have caused this catastrophe to
occur?
I personally would never do a timing belt job without also
replacing the
tensioner, H2O pump, and pulleys. Firestone's failure to do so
probably
resulted in your engine failure, but it's not a required item and
you would
have a hard time finding them negligent. A better way to approach
it would
be to try to prove that they damaged the tensioner during the
removal/replacement of the timing belt, because they probably just let it
pop-out instead of holding the piston in with a pin. This will be very hard
to prove also.
Bottom line in my opinion is this.........Get as many
people and mechanics
together as you can to write a letter (notarized of
course) stating that
the tensioner should be replaced with the timing belt,
and take them to
conciliation court. You don't need an attorney, and the
court fee is
minimal. If you hire an attorney, you will probably spend more
than the
engine replacement.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:11:51
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
question
Agreed. However, one might then refer to the FAQ 60k service
procedure which
Team3S offers on it's homepage As this forum is essentially
devoted to the
best the tec minded people in the 3S world, it may be that
what we advocate
in replacement parts at this increment has a bit of weight
in such
proceedings. For the most part, I wouldn't let a Mitsu or Dodge
mechanic
drive my car on the hoist, let alone work on it. Those of us who
know these
cars would agree almost to the man (and woman) that replacement of
all of
what is displayed at Rich's 60k service, is absolutely essential.
What
happened in this unfortunate incident is exactly why it is advocated by
the
true experts in the field. You will note I did not use the
word
professional..which means only, that you take money for your service,
not
necessarily that you are an expert.
Best
Darc
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <
whietala@prodigy.net>
To: <
team3s-digest@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S:
question
> At 08:04 PM 10/24/01 , BlackLight wrote:
> >If
a tensioner was not replaced or remanufactured it would
> >most
definitely cause catastrophic engine failure if it failed.
>
>
Definitely agree
>
> >If you can find a Mitsubishi
certified
> >mechanic to say that it is part of the 60k service
procedure to replace
> >the tensioner in a court, that is your best
chance.
>
> This is where it will get tricky, because the tensioner
is NOT part of the
> 60k service. This is just an item (along with the
pulleys and H2O pump)
> that is good to replace as a precaution, but you
will be hard pressed to
> find it listed in any 60k service
literature.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:17:52
-0600
From: "Thomas Jeys" <
tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Team3S: Fule cut fix,
maby
I recently up'ed my boost to the magic presure number of 15, and as
you all
know we tend to hit a bit of a problem with fule cut at this
point. I have
found a way to fix this problem, but I don't know at what
cost to my A/F
ratio. I just took the lower "honey comb" peice out of
my MAS. This
definutly fixed the problem, but I don't know if I am now
running way to
lean. I need an A/F gauge... Has anyone with one
tried this as a solution?
What were your findings? Thanks!!
T.J.
1992 3000GT VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:34:09
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: tire wear on track DE's
I get 6-8 weekends, depending on track
and weather and alignment.
This was for SoCal events mostly, Base NT,
245/45-16 for Gforce R1 and Khumo V700.
They always wear outside front
shoulders first. I don't have camber plates, so run -1 deg or less. (camber will
have to wait for the VR4 upgrade)
I swap locations frequently based on wear.
I'm assuming my car weighs 3400-3500 with driver.
I started with 36-40psi
front, 32-38psi rear. That gave me very predictable feedback when I was
learning. Stock on street is 32f / 29r just for refererence.
Now I run
with 27-28f / 25-26r, and take it easy the first two laps. This gets me about 2
seconds faster lap times, judging from a few comparison tests. I don't notice
any predictability change, since I lowered down to those pressures gradually,
and always mind my manners in the warmup laps. I re-adjust psi before each
session, usually need to lower by
2-3psi.
Kurt
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24,
2001 10:00 AM
To: 'Team 3S'
Subject: Team3S: tire wear on track
DE's
What is everyone's experience with useful life of tires?
We
got much longer life on our first two sets of tires (twice as many
events)
than my third set (now being replaced by my fourth set). Of course
my
lap times are improving, but I am wondering about what everyone else
expects
from tires in terms of life.
Chuck Willis
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 17:15:06
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Braking With Reds
Hey! Watch who yer talkin' to.
Kurt(technically challenged 3K Base)
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:10 AM
To: Jim Berry
Cc:
dschilberg@pobox.com; 'Team
3S'
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking With Reds
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I haven't followed the
whole thread but for some reason everybody is
> ignoring the fact that we
have --- ABS --- on the car and in most cases
> it is operational. All of
the write ups in the book are talking about
> threshold braking --- with
ABS you don't /can't threshold brake. With
> ABS you are not in charge of
locking up the wheels.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- ---
I agree, but a good
driver still knows instinctively where that limit is,
and rarely actually
uses ABS. Again, a skill you learn in underpowered
cars with less
technology.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:25:42
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: tire wear on track DE's
Yo Chuck,
Don't you mean 40/38 HOT
pressure?????
I run 24 on the rears COLD. I'd have to look at
my
track logbook for the fronts, but they are usually +4
from the
rear --- ie 28 COLD.
Running on the track increases temp, and
pressure. Hot
is about +8 to 10 degrees higher.
I know it's warmer in
TX than PA!
Be of good cheer,
John
- --- "Willis, Charles
E."
<
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
wrote:
> I got between 9 and 12 full 2 day DE's on the first
> two
sets of tires. They
> were Yokohama A032R 245R45Z17. The third
set were
> 255R40Z17. So far I have
> lost one after 3 events
(completely melted/corded in
> the center at Heartland
> Park), one
after five (chunked in the middle), and
> another after 6 events
(5
> mm wide linear melted/corded area in the center).
> The fourth
one will
> probably make another (7). I'm just wondering if
I
> got a bad set of tires.
> I am using the same cold pressures 40
psi front and
> 38 psi rear, expect last
> weekend when I reduced
the fronts to 38 psi cold.
> Also, each of the three
> new ones
have corded in the center, but no unusual
> wear on the shoulders
to
> indicate overinflation, and the first two sets wore
> the tread
down evenly
> until I had slicks and were retired before
>
cooking/cording (except one of
> eight, corded on the right rear).
All three of the
> new ones that went south
> were on the right
front wheel - all tracks we're
> running are
>
counterclockwise.
>
> Is this just the cost of doing business, or
am I
> doing something stupid
> again?
>
>
Chuck
>
> P.S. There is no alignment problem. The tire
wear
> and flaws are very
> symmetric and centered.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:52:48
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: knock sensor damage
> It's time for maintenance on the car
anyway, so I've got
> the plenum off I had a look at the knock sensor.
It's
> covered with this black looking ooze, which my friend
>
Victor (at Bentley Mitsu) said is a sign of it going bad.
That's how the
DSM knock sensors go bad - they turn to goo and then the goo
runs out and the
sensor doesn't work right anymore. It either gets too
sensitive or
stops working completely. For as important as the knock sensor
is, I'd
just replace it regardless.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:01:45
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question
> Ulf, the fellow who did the work, discovered
that the
> problem was caused by Firestone's failure to replace
>
the old tensioner when they replaced the timing belt.
> Evidently it
broke, which fouled up the timing belt,
> which caused the engine to be
ruined.
I'd be reluctant to say it was for sure Firestone's fault by not
replacing
the tensioner. How did it break - just have not enough
tensioning pressure
or actually physically break somehow? Did they
torque the retaining bolts
down too tight and crack the case?
>
According to Ulf it was gross negligence on Firestone's
> part not to
replace the tensioner when they replaced the
> timing belt.
I think
usually the Mitsubishi mechanics recommend replacing the tensioner
while you
are doing the 60k service because it is (relatively) cheap
insurance against
a very expensive failure. When I do 60k services I
replace it, and I
think most other people do also.
> Do you also think that replacing
the tensioner was a "must do"
> during the 60,000 mile maintenance, and
that Firestone's
> failure to do so might have caused this catastrophe to
occur?
I think its a "highly recommended". With it failing only
17,000 miles after
Firestone was in there, I would think there might have
been some signs that
it was starting to fail - like poor tensioning pressure
or something along
those lines. Maybe oil leaking out? Depends
again on how it failed.
I'd wonder more if the Firestone guys just simply
didn't set the tension
properly which caused the problem. That would
actually be the easiest way
to foul it up without really trying
to.
> I sure don't want to wade into the world of courts &
law
> suits without being pretty confident that I have a
>
proverbial leg to stand on! Many thanks in advance for
> any thoughts you
have! Jennifer Ford Pittsburgh, PA
Contact the Better Business Bureau and
see if there are complaints filed
against that Firestone shop. If there
are quite a few complaints then your
case looks a lot easier to get some sort
of compensation. Either way, good
luck!
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:31:47
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: tire wear on track DE's
At 09:25 PM 10/24/01 -0700, John
Christian wrote:
>Yo Chuck,
>
>Don't you mean 40/38 HOT
pressure?????
>
>I run 24 on the rears COLD. I'd have to look
at my
>track logbook for the fronts, but they are usually +4
>from
the rear --- ie 28 COLD.
>
I run 44/38 cold. We checked
everything with a pyrometer at Marshalltown,
and I had a 5 F spread across
both front tires. Since the camber plates
went on, the tires wear evenly
across. In fact, I have two Kuhmos worn down
to the cord all the way across
the tire.
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:16:58
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: tire wear on track DE's
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"John Christian" <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
> Yo
Chuck,
> Don't you mean 40/38 HOT pressure????? I run 24 on the rears
COLD. I'd
have to look at my track logbook for the fronts, but they are
usually +4
from the rear --- ie 28 COLD. Running on the track
increases temp, and
pressure. Hot is about +8 to 10 degrees higher. I know
it's warmer in TX
than PA!
> Be of good cheer,
> John
BIG
difference of opinion here... Just like what was exposed in
the
Firestone/Ford fiasco, underinflated tires fail and blow out WAY more
than
properly- or over-inflated tires. Car manufacturers recommend
low
inflations to keep the car "comfy" and minimize wear and tear on
components
(or in Ford's case, to lower the center of gravity so that 'yuppie
truck'
wouldn't flip over). Tire manufacturers recommend higher
inflations, to
prevent the tires from blowing out so frequently (Firestone
recommended
10psi MORE than Ford as being the minimum safe inflation because
the
Explorer is such a heavy vehicle). Even Dodge/Mitsubishi recommend
+6 or +7
psi (can't remember) OVER stock when going over 100mph. Using
32F/29R as
'stock', that would indicate 39F/36R is recommended by Mitsu at
track
speeds. We tested many inflations, and at the track our Stealth
NT FWD and
tire combination works better with even *more* pressure than
that. Even on
the street, we run way higher than what's marked on the
door. I challenge
everyone (racer or not) to TRY pumping up your tires
+6 all around and see
for yourself how *your* car feels!.
Even at
Thunderhill (~120 degrees), we ran 43F/40R COLD and they
handled
beautifully. We were running in 2 different groups using the
same car, so
the tires never had a chance to cool down-- As soon as I
finished my run,
Eileen met me at pre-grid - I hopped out and she hopped in
and did her run.
Two days, 14 runs, never more than an hour's rest for the
tires. At Sears
Point, it was cooler (~85) and so we ran our normal
46F/43R, but the rears
were slippery so we switched to 46F/40R and they were
great.
High inflation = speed and agility; Low inflation = grip and
traction.
There is a balance somewhere in between that each owner must find -
what is
right for your car setup, your tires, and where you are
running. Perhaps if
you have a 500hp TT/VR4 and you constantly lose
traction from tirespin
coming out of the corners, a lower inflation might be
appropriate. On our
NT Stealth, and with our tires, 46F/40R is the
"right" inflation for the
track. For the record: Yoko AVS
Intermediates, 265/35ZR18, bought used
from Geoff & Nissa; 6 track
weekends of HPDEs, 4 more left on them. Camber
setting:
-1.5.
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:35:29
+0200 (MEST)
From: <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fule cut fix, maby
No, this is not a fix.
When you hit
fuel cut at 15 psi you have another problem. Fuel cut does kick in when the fuel
value jumps off of one of the two fuel maps or the ECU sees excessive knock.
This does normally not happen until 18 psi are hit. Removing the honeycomb
usually reduces the airflow signal and therefore the fuel amount is reduced too.
You may stil lrun rich but something else isn't healthy when fuel cuts in at 15
psi !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- original Nachricht
--------
I recently up'ed my boost to the magic presure number of 15, and as
you all
know we tend to hit a bit of a problem with fule cut at this
point. I have
found a way to fix this problem, but I don't know at what
cost to my A/F
ratio. I just took the lower "honey comb" peice out of
my MAS. This
definutly fixed the problem, but I don't know if I am now
running way to
lean. I need an A/F gauge... Has anyone with one
tried this as a solution?
What were your findings?
Thanks!!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:11:34
+0200
From: Henri Le Hir <
hlehir@lucent.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Sticky Odometer, Indiglo Gauges, and SRS Light
Ok, here are the
problems
- -Odometer
It stopped working, or is working
intermittently.
I guess the 10 years old gears need a little bit of
cleaning and oiling.
How difficult is it to remove the instrument
cluster..I hope I won't have to
remove the whole dashboard.
- -Indiglo
Gauges
While I'm doing that, I could at the same time install indiglo
gauges.
Anything I should know ?
Are there Gauges NOT requiring removal of
handles
From an European point of view...are there any good indiglo with
km/h on the
outside
- -SRS Light
Since several months, I still
have the SRS light on...no 10 on/off trick
worked.
I have a pocket logger
on order, so I hope to be able to reset it....'cse
here there's NO dealer
able to reset it
If someone has a way to reset it...I'd appreciate (And I
know I'm not alone
with this problem.
BTW, Yup, I read the
CD-Manual...not clear on the dash removal...and even
darker on the
SRS
Best
Henri
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:12:58
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Sticky Odometer, Indiglo Gauges, and SRS Light
SRS
Troubleshooting is explained in a TSB, which is on our "Recalls &
TSBs"
Page. It's in the FAQ pages, in the 'Basics' Section.
www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htmBest,
Forrest
-
--------------snip----------
> -SRS Light
> Since several months, I
still have the SRS light on...no 10 on/off trick
> worked.
> I have
a pocket logger on order, so I hope to be able to reset it....'cse
> here
there's NO dealer able to reset it
> If someone has a way to reset
it...I'd appreciate (And I know I'm not
alone
> with this
problem.
> BTW, Yup, I read the CD-Manual...not clear on the dash
removal...and even
> darker on the SRS
> Best
>
Henri
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:29:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: DETONATION
1) Are you measuring knock with a datalogger (you
don't state what
year car you have) or just going by sound? I have heard
noise I
thought was knock yet no knock on my datalogger ('92 Stealth TT).
I
have also seen knock on the datalogger but did not hear it. When I
have
heard knock the datalogger showed it was severe and also
hampered performance
(reduced timing).
2) When you checked the plug gap, did you look for the
telltale signs
of true, severe detonation, very small pieces of melted piston
on
your plugs or plug damage? You may need a magnifying lens for
this.
Common spark plug conditions:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-sparkchart.htm3)
Are you measuring fuel pressure? This is a sure way to confirm or
eliminate
this type of problem with the pump. Also inspect the hard
and soft fuel lines
for any damage (bends, kinks, etc.). You cleaned
the fuel filter, not
replaced it?
Fuel pressure sensor install:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fp_install.htmFuel
pump R&R:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fuelpump.htmFuel
pump upgrade info:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htmI
am not a big fan of just replacing parts to see if that fixes
something,
unless that is an obviously cheap and easy course.
Verify that you
really have knock with a datalogger - easy on
1991-1993 models, possible by
inference from timing change in 1996+
models, nothing for 1994-5 models at
the moment.
Test the pump to see if it is working OK - either install a
fuel
pressure sensor or remove the pump and have RC Engineering flow
test
it.
Also reduce boost until problems go away. You do not state
at what
boost levels you are running at and how you are measuring
and
controlling boost.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jane" <
dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: Team3S: DETONATION
When I
boost my car run to 60 mph I always hear the engine sound
knocking and the
sound like detonation, but when the car run under 60
mph the sound never
comes up. I have rechecked the ignition timing at
5 deg. BTDC, spark plugs
gap, cleaned fuel and air filter and use
high octane fuel. In my opinion the
engine knocks because the fuel
consumption injected to combustion chamber is
not enough. When it run
under 60 mph, the fuel pump can pressure the fuel
into combustion
chamber through fuel injectors in full capacity but when it
boosted
over 60 mph the fuel pump pressure the fuel to fuel injector in
low
capacity. By the way the fuel pump should be changed to new one.
How
about you, do you agree with my theory or could you advise me how
to
overcome engine knocking or detonation. Looking forward to
receiving
your good response and thank you very much for your kindly
attention.
Regards,
Jane.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:51:49
-0500
From: "Turbo Driven" <
turbodrvn@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rev Limiter.
Thanks to all who responded.......I truly
appreciate your feedback.
This is interesting because my 1st. gen VR4 has
no Rev Limiter whatsoever!!
I'm the only one who has modified this car
out of the 3 owners who've had
this vehicle. But I do remember the
previous owner informing me of some
frontal damage on the car and it was
repaired by a Mitsubishi Dealership (I
know this for a fact, because I
visited the dealership as they were
repairing my future car). I doubt
if it has an upgraded ECU from any of the
previous owners and/or dealership
and I sure haven't modified the ECU
myself. Is it possible that my
Apex'i Super AFC somehow disengaged my rev
limiter? Or I wonder if the
earlier models of the 1st generation VR4's
didn't have a rev
limiter?
Hope all is well with everyone.
Ahmed.
>From:
"Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rev Limiter
>Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:17:29
-0500
>
>My rev limiter in my 2nd gen VR4 kicks in about 7500
rpms. I don't recall
>ever bouncing the rev limiter when I was
driving my 1st gen VR4 on the
>track, but never over-reved
either.
>
>Chuck Willis
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Turbo Driven
[SMTP:turbodrvn@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001
12:48 AM
> > To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Team3S: Rev Limiter
> >
> > Hello all,
>
>
> > Question: Don't our cars have a rev limiter? I
have a 1992 3000GT VR4.
> > There is NO rev limiter whatsoever on my
car!? In the past (3 years
>ago),
> > I
> > have
flat lined to 9,000 rpm when the o-ring from my y-pipe was lodged
> >
into
> > my throttle body. Is this normal for any generation of
our cars?
> >
> > Ahmed.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:07:08
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rev Limiter.
Ahmed, I know for a fact my 93 VR-4 has a rev
limiter b/c my avc-r displayed
a peak of 7219 when I hit the limiter while
racing a WS-6 at the top of
third :(
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Turbo Driven [SMTP:turbodrvn@hotmail.com]
>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 9:52 AM
> To:
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rev Limiter.
>
> Thanks to all who
responded.......I truly appreciate your feedback.
>
> This is
interesting because my 1st. gen VR4 has no Rev Limiter
>
whatsoever!!
> I'm the only one who has modified this car out of
the 3 owners who've had
> this vehicle. But I do remember the
previous owner informing me of some
> frontal damage on the car and it
was repaired by a Mitsubishi Dealership
> (I
> know this for a
fact, because I visited the dealership as they were
> repairing my future
car). I doubt if it has an upgraded ECU from any of
> the
>
previous owners and/or dealership and I sure haven't modified the ECU
>
myself. Is it possible that my Apex'i Super AFC somehow disengaged my
rev
>
> limiter? Or I wonder if the earlier models of the 1st
generation VR4's
> didn't have a rev limiter?
>
> Hope all
is well with everyone.
>
> Ahmed.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:18:56
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: question
My take on the situation, having done the 60K
myself... Is that they
probably didn't know how the tensioner
worked. I would always be
extremely reluctant to re-use a tensioner,
but according to the service
manual it can be done. Again, how did the
tensioner break? Did it
actually break in half, or did it just release
tension entirely. A few
years ago, on the Starnet list I believe, we
came upon one possibility
as to why cars are failing that have reused their
tensioners. That's
that the mechanic did not even remove the tensioner,
or if he/she did,
they did not compress it as the manual states to.
Without being
properly compressed, or without being compressed at all, they
could have
attained proper tension on the belt, but as soon as the belt
stretched
even a little, that tension would be lost, and a slippage would
soon be
in hand... (or out of hand?)
- -Cody
I'd be
reluctant to say it was for sure Firestone's fault by not
replacing
the
tensioner. How did it break - just have not enough
tensioning
pressure
or actually physically break somehow? Did they
torque the retaining
bolts
down too tight and crack the case?
>
According to Ulf it was gross negligence on Firestone's
> part not to
replace the tensioner when they replaced the
> timing belt.
I think
usually the Mitsubishi mechanics recommend replacing the
tensioner
while
you are doing the 60k service because it is (relatively) cheap
insurance
against a very expensive failure. When I do 60k services I
replace it,
and I think most other people do also.
> Do you also think that
replacing the tensioner was a "must do"
> during the 60,000 mile
maintenance, and that Firestone's
> failure to do so might have caused
this catastrophe to occur?
I think its a "highly recommended". With
it failing only 17,000 miles
after
Firestone was in there, I would think
there might have been some signs
that
it was starting to fail - like poor
tensioning pressure or something
along
those lines. Maybe oil
leaking out? Depends again on how it failed.
I'd wonder more if the
Firestone guys just simply didn't set the tension
properly which caused the
problem. That would actually be the easiest
way
to foul it up
without really trying to.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:23:45
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Sticky Odometer, Indiglo Gauges, and SRS Light
The gauge
cluster comes out very easily. 2 Screws above the gauges on
the upper
plastic portion are Philips head and come out easily. After
that, pull
the entire piece out, it will have some resistance, as there
are compression
clips on the back side. Then, disconnect the wires
where the switches
like ECS, and stuff are. Now, take a 10MM socket
with extensions, and
remove the four bolts that hold in the actual
cluster. Pull straight
out on the cluster. Now, you have the cluster
entirely removed.
- -Cody
(if you have a first gen, I have a SRS ECU for sale if you
determine
that to be the problem)
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Henri Le Hir
Sent: Thursday,
October 25, 2001 4:12 AM
To:
team3s@mail.speedtoys.comSubject:
Team3S: Sticky Odometer, Indiglo Gauges, and SRS Light
Ok, here are the
problems
- -Odometer
It stopped working, or is working
intermittently.
I guess the 10 years old gears need a little bit of
cleaning and oiling.
How difficult is it to remove the instrument
cluster..I hope I won't
have to
remove the whole dashboard.
-
-Indiglo Gauges
While I'm doing that, I could at the same time install
indiglo gauges.
Anything I should know ?
Are there Gauges NOT requiring
removal of handles
From an European point of view...are there any good
indiglo with km/h on
the
outside
- -SRS Light
Since several
months, I still have the SRS light on...no 10 on/off trick
worked.
I have
a pocket logger on order, so I hope to be able to reset
it....'cse
here
there's NO dealer able to reset it
If someone has a way to reset it...I'd
appreciate (And I know I'm not
alone
with this problem.
BTW, Yup, I
read the CD-Manual...not clear on the dash removal...and
even
darker on
the SRS
Best
Henri
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:25:52
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Stock Elec Fan ?'s
Ok so I was working on the lady last night and
came to a couple of
realizations... 1 the fluidyne radiator is going to cause
interference
problems with the stock fans 355 Mags and the piping for my
FMIC. 2 This
car is a royal PITA to work on!!!!
Ok now on to the
important stuff, does any one know how many CFM the stock
fans move at
12 volts? (If you could list the smaller fan first and then
the larger
that would be great) Has anyone found a slimline
"adequate"
replacement/upgrade?
Thanks guys and gals
Russ
F
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:31:15
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: tire wear on track DE's
I have gotten 3 two-day DEs and loaned
them to a friend for a day at
Pocono and two days at Watkins Glen.
Guess I should have kept track of
the mileage (I do about 200 miles at my DEs
and the other ones totaled
maybe 300 miles so they are around 500 miles of
track time on them).
I have stock camber which tends to wear the
insides. The 35,000 mile
P-Zeros were tossed out because the inside
edge of all were showing
cords (equally so I am happy with the tire rotation
pattern I have).
The Yoko A-032s I have are doing well, showing more wear
on the outside
edge (vs. the inside edge from street driving), but good wear
across the
center. I imagine if any cords show it will be on the
outside.
I like their feel, performance, heat resistance, and chatter
before
letting go and I'll get another set to replace these. My only
guess is
that mine were Heat Cycled at Tire Rack but I think many of us do
this
so I don't know if anyone does not use Heat Cycled tires for the
track.
I think Rich had a set that was shaved but those will have less
life
only because they have less rubber. Any of you massive camber
guys
seeing big problems? Chuck, didn't you have more than stock camber
on
your car(s) at Heartland Park?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4, 255/45/17
Yoko A-32 track tires heat cycled from Tire Rack
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001
13:00
What is everyone's experience with useful life of
tires?
We got much longer life on our first two sets of tires (twice as
many
events) than my third set (now being replaced by my fourth set).
Of
course
my lap times are improving, but I am wondering about what
everyone else
expects from tires in terms of life.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:32:43
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S:
OT
Scorpio has started. A little known study in the dim past revealed
that 6
out of the 7 3S owners then polled, were Scorpios. The odds
were
astronomical (pun intended). It was then mused upon, how many
other 3S
owners were in fact Scopio natives, or were influenced perhaps by
Scorpio
rising in their own sign. There may be some strange infatuation with
these
cars by natives of this sign. On the other hand, it could all
be a
coincident, which is word in the dictionary that should be
replaced by
significant.
Best
Darc
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:47:33
-0500
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hi All
FYI. Putting turbos on an NA is not a common
thing for 3Sers. Jeff
VanOrsdal has put a TT engine in an ES
though. It would be best to do some
searches on Jeff and his "ESX" as
he calls it.
Welcome to the list and best of luck.
Christopher
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shane Swan" <
kaiou_182@hotmail.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: Team3S: Hi All
>
Hello,
>
> My name is Shane Swan, and i live in Georgia near the
savannah area. And
I
> own a 1992 Dodge Stealth ES, Just last
weekend I put a K&N FIPK air intake
> on. If anybody knows a lot
about twin turbo or knows what needs to be
done
> about installing one
please e-mail me, because I would really like to
learn.
>
> Thank
you,
> Shane Swan
>
>
Kaiou_182@hotmail.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:26:27
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Braking With Reds
Thanks for clarifying Andy. I don't
believe the book was noted as being
a motorcycle book. One can assume
from the title but you know what
happens when you ass-u-me.
Bike
racing is nothing close to car racing. Wonder why he chose to
excerpt
from a bike book anyway.
Still -- the confusion seems to have been
cleared up. Thanks.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Andy Carberry [mailto:acarberry@SNET.Net]
Sent:
Wednesday, October 24, 2001 08:29
Hey Flash keep in mind he is
referring to a Motorcycle book and that is
refering to motorcycle racing.
They brake a little different than a car
but
then he talks about doing
this with his car?
> As Keith Code writes in A Twist of the
Wrist, the goal of any racer is
to
drive the
> track full on or full
off. From initial braking to track out, the
tires
> should be
consistently at the limit of adheasion.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:01:18
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Braking With Reds
> Bike racing is nothing close to car
racing.
It isn't?
Using the tires' traction circle to maximum
advantage as well as the
available forces of acceleration and deceleration
isn't the goal of car
racing? I guess I've been doing it wrong trying
to get maximum performance
from my car at all times on the
track.
???
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:08:08
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Braking With Reds
The goals may be the same, but to suggest that the
relevant TECHNIQUES bear
anything more than passing similarities to
automobile racing is just
ridiculous. Something tells me that Michael
Schumacher wouldn't be able to
do squat with a bike based solely on his
experience with F1 cars. On the
other hand, I'm willing to bet he would
transition into a VR4 rather well.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX
Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2001 12:01 PM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Braking With Reds
> Bike racing is nothing close to car
racing.
It isn't?
Using the tires' traction circle to maximum
advantage as well as the
available forces of acceleration and deceleration
isn't the goal of car
racing? I guess I've been doing it wrong trying
to get maximum performance
from my car at all times on the
track.
???
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:11:39
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Braking With Reds
Okay, Matt. I absolutely refuse to even
take the effort to address this
point. Yes this is off topic.
Sometimes you JUST don't get it, do you?
Send down the good stuff you are
sniffing, smoking, etc. so I can have a
hit. Jeezus you have no idea
sometimes. I've wasted enough of my time
with you already. If
people have complaints I'm sorry. Send 'em to me.
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2001 12:01
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking
With Reds
> Bike racing is nothing close to car racing.
It
isn't?
Using the tires' traction circle to maximum advantage as well as
the
available forces of acceleration and deceleration isn't the goal of
car
racing? I guess I've been doing it wrong trying to get
maximum
performance
from my car at all times on the
track.
???
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:17:56
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Compression Ratio
The original question was if nitrous affects
compression ratio.
No, it does not.
The second part is that what the
guy was actually referring to was INCREASED cylinder pressure, even if he
mis-used the terminology. Nitrous increases cylinder pressure in two basic ways.
It dramatically cools the intake charge. This allows more mixture to
enter the cylinder and thus more combustion and expansion.
It also
presents additional oxygen, causing faster and more complete burn. People have
tried oxygen for this effect, but it causes much too quick a burn, and melts,
combusts, the pistons.
I am not familiar with the specifics of the oxygen
release, as to WHEN in the combustion cycle it gets liberated.
I believe
nitrous was first used in small amounts w/o additional fuel.
With larger
amounts the additional intake or port fuel additions are necessary to prevent
extreme temperatures or knock.
Also suggested at high levels is 2-3 degrees
of retard on ignition.
Kurt
- -----Original
Message-----
From: bdtrent [mailto:bdtrent@netzero.net]
Sent: Wednesday,
October 24, 2001 3:00 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Compression
Ratio
Jeez guys,
There are to many lawyers on this group.
Lets simplify. Its was originally
refered to as compression
RATIO. This is a ratio of volumes having nothing
to do with volumetric
efficiency or any other hyverfluvic
conglomeration.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Cc:
<
Jim_Floyd@Maxtor.com>; <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: NOS injection effect
on compression ratio and
combustion chamber volume.
>
Generally..when someone mentions plain CR, they mean static.
>
> On
Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Mark Wendlandt wrote:
>
> > Geoff,
>
>
> > >Compression -ratio- is a value constant to your
hardware..is the
> > >difference in volume at BDC and TDC
basically.
> >
> > You need to mention which compression ratio
you are talking about when
you
> > say "compression ratio".
You are refering to "static". I agree that
static
> >
compression ratio is constant...hence "static" and can be measured
using
a
> > "burette and graduated cylinder" as the link below
mentions. Dynamic
> > compression is calculated differently and
is very important for power!
> >
> > >
> > >The
amount of air/fuel/etc IN the cylinder has nothing to do wth
> >
>compression ration,
> >
> > Not true!
> > The
dynamic compression ratio is what we are interested in, because
just
by
> > changing cams, you can change the dynamic compression
ratio. i.e.
longer
> > duration cam will bleed off air and
lower the dynamic compression ratio.
> > Forcing air/fuel into the
cylinders will increase the dynamic
compression
> > ratio. I
think this is where is NOS question comes in...does it
increase
> >
the dynamic compression ratio? Not cylinder pressure from burning
>
> air/fuel...but cylinder pressures prior to ignition.
> >
>
> Check out:
http://www.rehermorrison.com/techTalk/08b.htm>
>
> > Mark Wendlandt
> > '91RT/TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:27:38
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: DETONATION
How about intake leaks that might bypass the air
meter, thus giving low fuel requirement?
Kurt
- -----Original
Message-----
From: GREG RUSH [mailto:rush@siscom.net]
Sent: Wednesday,
October 24, 2001 5:43 PM
To: Geoff Mohler
Cc: Willis, Charles E.; Jane;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: DETONATION
Can you rule out detonation by putting some race
fuel in the car?
Geoff Mohler wrote:
> Cleaned
it?
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Willis, Charles E.
wrote:
>
> > sure you did - it said "cleaned the fuel
flter".
> >
> > Checked the spark plug gap - but what was the
gap?
> > Also how many psi boost is the car running?
> > How
many octane in the high octane gas?
> >
> > Chuck
Willis
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:41:48
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Braking With Reds
> Jeezus you have no idea
sometimes. I've wasted enough of
> my time with you
already.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree (again). I will
post no further
responses to any of your e-mails, but rather just ignore them
as best I can.
The point I was trying to make (probably not in the best way)
was that I
thought you missed the point of DaveT's message, but that doesn't
really
matter.
...and now back to our regularly scheduled technical
discussions about 3/S
cars (I hope).
I hope others from this list
offered help to the person with the '91 TT that
wouldn't start. I don't
recall if he mentioned where he lives or not, but
it might be a good thing if
someone with a datalogger could hook up to his
car and see if any codes are
set (CAS, coils, etc).
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
Engine
assembly begins this weekend...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:12:26
-0400
From: Curtis McConnel <
CMcConnel@Pulte.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Upgraded Pistons
I found out my #3 cylinder piston is shot. Now
thinking might as well
upgrade while I'm at it. What is the best brand of
piston to go with? Should
I get rods also? I was told JE Pistons ($999.00
with rings) are the way to
go and just want to make sure I'm getting a good
quality piston.
Curtis
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:22:00
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Upgraded Pistons
I have to ask this question... how come so
many of us are rebuilding our
motors? I find it hard to believe these
motors are THAT delicate. Of
course I have not torn my engine down yet
so I could have to eat some humble
pie in a couple of months :/
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Curtis McConnel
[SMTP:CMcConnel@Pulte.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 1:12
PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Upgraded Pistons
>
> I found out my #3 cylinder
piston is shot. Now thinking might as well
> upgrade while I'm at it. What
is the best brand of piston to go with?
> Should
> I get rods also?
I was told JE Pistons ($999.00 with rings) are the way to
> go and just
want to make sure I'm getting a good quality piston.
>
>
Curtis
> 1995 Vr-4 Spyder
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:31:14
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Upgraded Pistons
I believe a lot of people are facing rebuilds simply due
to lack of
maintainence. I'm not saying the current owners are
negligent, but a lot of
the cars are on their second or third owners so who
knows how they were
treated in the past? My first two engines came from high
mileage,
questionable cars. Both of them died not long after I got
them. It was
only when I built my third engine myself from new parts
that I actually had
any kind of good luck with them.
People who mod
these cars may not be the most qualified as well. There's so
much
heresay and myth surrounding our cars that people simply don't have a
rock
solid knowledge base to start from like the Supra and DSM folks do.
This
leads to improper installation and tuning which in turn leads to dead
motors
and trannies.
There's a good reason that other cars have better (not more
but BETTER)
aftermarket supprt than we do and it has very little to do with
the design
of the car itself.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Furman, Russell
Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2001 1:22 PM
To: 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Upgraded Pistons
I have to ask this question... how come so many of us
are rebuilding our
motors? I find it hard to believe these motors are
THAT delicate. Of
course I have not torn my engine down yet so I could
have to eat some humble
pie in a couple of months :/
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:32:22
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Upgraded Pistons
> I found out my #3 cylinder piston is
shot. Now thinking might
> as well upgrade while I'm at it. What is the
best brand of
> piston to go with? Should I get rods also? I was told JE
> Pistons ($999.00 with rings) are the way to go and just want
>
to make sure I'm getting a good quality piston.
Sorry to hear it, believe
me - I feel your pain!
I did some shopping around and the JE's came
recommended as did the Venolia.
I ended up getting GT Pro's Ross
pistons. For just replacing pistons
straight-up without doing a lot of
other work the JE's are probably the way
to go.
The Ross pistons are
pretty much a full-commit kind of deal. You'll need to
rebalance the
whole rotating assembly (which you probably want to do with
any piston swap
on a high performance motor like these if the piston weights
aren't really
close to the originals) and the Ross pistons use full floating
pins with
double Spirolox - so you need to convert your rods to accept
floating
pins. I decided not to bush the rods, but rather hone them to a
.0009"
clearance and drill an oil hole in the top of the small end and then
machine
a 45 degree chamfer to help oil run into the hole. Since the hole
is on
the top end, it shouldn't significantly weaken the rod - bushing it I
felt
would reduce the amount of metal in the small end too much and
weaken
it.
The Ross pistons GT Pro stocks are also 3.1L, so you need
to bore the block
as well. They do come with Total Seal rings.
I
think JE you can get in stock sizes so if your bore is still good those
are
probably the way to go with minimum hassle. Much of the machining
work
needed with the Ross pistons isn't necessary with the JE's (as far as
I
know).
I couldn't come up with a good reason to change rods,
although I am
replacing all the rod bolts and crank/rod bearings since it is
easy to do at
this point. Rod bolts should probably be replaced
regardless, and are cheap
in the grand scheme of things.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:36:32
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: DETONATION
Fuel pressure check would be good, your fuel return
bypass may be bad lowering pressure too.
Kurt
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2001 6:29 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: DETONATION
1) Are you measuring knock with a datalogger (you
don't state what
year car you have) or just going by sound? I have heard
noise I
thought was knock yet no knock on my datalogger ('92 Stealth TT).
I
have also seen knock on the datalogger but did not hear it. When I
have
heard knock the datalogger showed it was severe and also
hampered performance
(reduced timing).
2) When you checked the plug gap, did you look for the
telltale signs
of true, severe detonation, very small pieces of melted piston
on
your plugs or plug damage? You may need a magnifying lens for
this.
Common spark plug conditions:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-sparkchart.htm3)
Are you measuring fuel pressure? This is a sure way to confirm or
eliminate
this type of problem with the pump. Also inspect the hard
and soft fuel lines
for any damage (bends, kinks, etc.). You cleaned
the fuel filter, not
replaced it?
Fuel pressure sensor install:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fp_install.htmFuel
pump R&R:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fuelpump.htmFuel
pump upgrade info:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htmI
am not a big fan of just replacing parts to see if that fixes
something,
unless that is an obviously cheap and easy course.
Verify that you
really have knock with a datalogger - easy on
1991-1993 models, possible by
inference from timing change in 1996+
models, nothing for 1994-5 models at
the moment.
Test the pump to see if it is working OK - either install a
fuel
pressure sensor or remove the pump and have RC Engineering flow
test
it.
Also reduce boost until problems go away. You do not state
at what
boost levels you are running at and how you are measuring
and
controlling boost.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:36:29
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Upgraded Pistons
Gee Jeff, thanks for helping to add to my
paranoid psychosis... I am the
third owner of my car.... well I hope the
humble pie has no after taste ;)
So while we are on the topic. Besides
Venoila, JE and GT Pro/Ross, what
other options are there for pistons?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff VanOrsdal
[SMTP:jeffv@1nce.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 1:31 PM
>
To: Team3s Tech List; Furman, Russell
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
Upgraded Pistons
>
> I believe a lot of people are facing rebuilds
simply due to lack of
> maintainence. I'm not saying the current
owners are negligent, but a lot
> of
> the cars are on their second
or third owners so who knows how they were
> treated in the past? My first
two engines came from high mileage,
> questionable cars. Both of
them died not long after I got them. It was
> only when I built my
third engine myself from new parts that I actually
> had
> any kind
of good luck with them.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX
Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:59:37
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Upgraded Pistons
I have a comprehensive listing of sources
for forged pistons for our
cars on my web page below. If someone knows of
another source, please
see the type of information I have there and email the
new info to
me.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-pistonguide.htmI
don't get into the reputation of one brand over another. But I do
discuss the
advantages/disadvantages of some alloys, reproduced
below.
"The stock
cast aluminum pistons are fine for stock engines. However,
when engine
modifications lead to power output over 400 HP and boost
values over 15 psi,
forged aluminum pistons should be considered.
Forged pistons are stronger and
lighter than cast pistons. The
densely-packed molecules in forged pistons
allow them to conduct heat
away from the piston top quickly so that forged
piston crowns can run
75ºF to 100ºF cooler than cast piston crowns (450ºF
instead of 550ºF
typically). However, forgings often have much less silicon
content
than cast pistons so expand more when heated than cast pistons
do.
This requires slightly larger piston-to-cylinder wall
clearances
(0.005" instead of 0.001" for example) and oil consumption
and
blow-by may be higher with forged than with cast pistons. The
higher
clearance can also cause forged pistons to be a bit noisier than
cast
pistons until they warm up. Forged pistons also cost more than
cast
pistons ($660 to $1050 instead of $600 or less for a set of six).
"There are two common alloys used in forged pistons, 4032 and
2618.
Silicon-aluminum alloys, such as 4032, have great
wear
characteristics because the silicon particulate hardens the alloy
and
reduces the thermal coefficient of expansion.
However,
silicon-aluminum alloys can turn brittle and become prone
to
fracturing when subjected to extreme stress. With a piston made of
a
silicon alloy once a crack starts, it doesn't stop until the
piston
suffers a catastrophic failure. Low- or no-silicon alloys, such
as
2618, may wear a bit faster but provide better strength and
durability.
In the rare case of a crack in a 2618 piston, the crack
will migrate to an
area of lower stress and stop. 2618-alloy pistons
keep their shape under
extreme pressures and high RPM's."
My Venonia 2618 forged pistons were a
special order item at 0.050"
over-size and cost $750 with pins. Add $220 for
moly rings. Wait
period early in 1998 was 12 weeks.
Trevor bought
Wiseco 2618 pistons (0.039" over-size), pins, and rings
from Race Engineering
http://www.raceeng.com/ for $660.
On the 3SI message board, a member is offering Ross 2618
pistons,
pins, and rings for $800. In the same thread another member shows
a
pic of his Ross pistons after pins broke - TWICE (what are the
odds?).
If you buy JE or Arias, be sure of which type alloy they are
using.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Curtis McConnel" <
CMcConnel@Pulte.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:12 AM
Subject: Team3S: Upgraded
Pistons
I found out my #3 cylinder piston is shot. Now thinking might as
well
upgrade while I'm at it. What is the best brand of piston to go
with?
Should I get rods also? I was told JE Pistons ($999.00 with
rings)
are the way to go and just want to make sure I'm getting a
good
quality piston.
Curtis
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:06:14
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Upgraded Pistons
Sorry. I'm just calling it as I see it. As
far as upgrades go, I haven't
heard of anyone outside of JE, Ross and
Venolia. But then again, do we
really need anything else? These
are pretty respectable names who have been
in business for a while. What do
you want that these 3 companies do not
offer you? As I hinted at in my last
email, I'd be more worried about who is
supporting and installing the
modifications than about who actually built
the individual parts in the first
place.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Furman, Russell
Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2001 1:36 PM
To: 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Upgraded Pistons
Gee Jeff, thanks for helping to add to my paranoid
psychosis... I am the
third owner of my car.... well I hope the humble pie
has no after taste ;)
So while we are on the topic. Besides
Venoila, JE and GT Pro/Ross, what
other options are there for
pistons?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:29:31
-0700
From: Rich <
rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: question
Jennifer:
I'll add my $0.02 worth here, FWIW, but
a couple questions
first. Your mechanic says the tensioner "broke" ...
can he
be more specific? Was the plunger actually bent/snapped,
or
was it just fully deployed/extended? Was the body of the
tensioner
broken, indicating (possibly) over-torque of the
two bolts holding it?
A picture of the tensioner in-situ as
the covers were removed would go a
great ways towards solving
the "why" of your engine failure. Another
BIG question is
proper torquing of the tensioner idler, including the
required
turns on the crank pulley back & forth, with rests, before
removal of the tensioner pin to ensure "play" and "stretch" is
minimized
or eliminated before pin removal. This can *ONLY* be
done with a
special (Mits-only, AFAIK) tool. Did Firestone
possess and use the
correct tool, or did the mechanic "by-guess
& by-gosh" the torque
procedure? *ANYBODY* who says that this
tool isn't required, that they
can properly torque the idler
without it, is an idiot and the last person on
earth someone
should trust their car to. This torque sequence is too
important to do half-assed without the proper tool. Those who
have
done 60k's, Mits mechanics especially, would agree on this.
Whether the
old tensioner was re-used, (following the Mits
recommended removal and
compression procedure for re-use), or a
new one used, improper installation
*WILL* lead to failure.
Period. An absolute, a given.
Should a new tensioner *always*
be used? I'm pretty sure Mits would
agree that a new part is
less susceptable to failure that a re-used one, QC
issues
notwithstanding. *My* opinion is that a new tensioner *is*
required at the 60k, along with the water pump, at a minimum.
Idler pulleys are on the list of parts I could flip a coin about,
whether to replace or not at 60k. For the money, (less than $20
each, I think), an extra 15 minutes to swap them out isn't a bad
idea
while you're in there. I know I'll be doing them at my 120k.
Keep
the list posted - there's a wealth of knowledge out here to
help you
out.
Rich
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer
Ford wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> I've been
"lurking" on the digest for awhile; I enjoy reading what
> you all do with
your cars, but really have nothing to
> contribute as I have absolutely no
technical expertise whatever! I do
> have a question for you all though.
Three years ago I
> bought a beautifully kept 1991, 5-speed Stealth ES; it
is my pride &
> joy! When the car reached 60,000 miles a year and a
half
> ago, I wanted to have recommended maintenance done, and--like the
naive
> fool that I was--I took it to Firestone. One of the
> things
they did was change the timing belt--an expensive undertaking,
> but one I
understood to be crucial.
> Flash forward to last
May; the car now had 77,000 miles on it. One
> morning I merrily got in
the Stealth, fired her up, and
> kapow: engine failure. In fact, engine
ruination. It took me some time
> to find a mechanic who was both expert
& trustworthy
> enough to replace the engine. Ulf, the fellow who did
the work,
> discovered that the problem was caused by Firestone's
failure
> to replace the old tensioner when they replaced the timing
belt.
> Evidently it broke, which fouled up the timing belt, which
caused
> the engine to be ruined. According to Ulf it was gross negligence
on
> Firestone's part not to replace the tensioner when they
>
replaced the timing belt. He has said that if I go after Firestone for
>
damages (this has cost me nearly $3,000 and five months
> without my car)
he will testify to their negligence.
> My question
to you folks--who obviously know Mitsubishi engines
> inside out--is: do
you also think that replacing the
> tensioner was a "must do" during the
60,000 mile maintenance, and that
> Firestone's failure to do so might
have caused this
> catastrophe to occur? I sure don't want to wade into
the world of courts
> & law suits without being pretty confident that
I have a
> proverbial leg to stand on!
>
Many thanks in advance for any thoughts you have!
> Jennifer Ford
>
Pittsburgh, PA
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:32:27
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
OT
Well, the day dwindled away and 3 Scorpios and 3 other signs signed
in. Of
the others, 1 was a Leo (a star match for Scorpio) one was a Pisces
(another
water sign like Scorpio..and a star match that is veeeeeery
interesting),
and the last was a Libra...who may or may not be on the Scorpio
cusp. What
does it mean...nothing more or less than most of the off topic
stuff here.
IMHO: the cars fascinate Scorpio natives. What would be
interesting is to
see is if the 3 non Scorpios had what they lacked as a
sign, prominent in
their sign. Just an obtuse, esoteric, archane notion on my
part.
Darc...celebrating his cusp birthday today and wondering about the
rest of
you ;-))
Snippity snip>>>>>>>
>
Scorpio has started. A little known study in the dim past revealed
that
> 6 out of the 7 3S owners then polled, were
Scorpios
>>>>>>>>>snip
snippity
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:50:00
-0700
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Upgraded Pistons
On this topic, does anyone know if the banadized coating
on some of the
aftermarket Ross pistons make a difference or not? I couldn't
find any
tech information on this at all.
Rich
Jeff VanOrsdal
wrote:
>
> Sorry. I'm just calling it as I see it. As
far as upgrades go, I haven't
> heard of anyone outside of JE, Ross and
Venolia. But then again, do we
> really need anything else?
These are pretty respectable names who have been
> in business for a
while. What do you want that these 3 companies do not
> offer you? As I
hinted at in my last email, I'd be more worried about who is
> supporting
and installing the modifications than about who actually built
> the
individual parts in the first place.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
>
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#656
***************************************