Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, October 23
2001 Volume 01 : Number
654
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:29:13 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Porsche
996 caliper adapters
Does anyone make an adapter bracket to fit 996
calipers in place of the
stock TT calipers? I may be able to get a good
deal on a pair of them, but
I want to know if I can make them fit before I go
to the expense. Are there
any other things I would need to look out
for? Thanks.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:34:33
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
Aren't these the same that Bedell
sells? Or are those the 993 model?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with
Brad's Big Red Brake Kit
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff VanOrsdal
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:29
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: Team3S:
Porsche 996 caliper adapters
Does anyone make an adapter bracket to fit
996 calipers in place of the
stock TT calipers? I may be able to get a
good deal on a pair of them,
but
I want to know if I can make them fit
before I go to the expense. Are
there
any other things I would need
to look out for? Thanks.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:23:52
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
At 10:40 AM 10/23/01 -0400, Darren
Schilberg wrote:
>And I shouldn't comment how at Kansas Rich was doing his
water spraying
>magic and not going 5 seconds faster than us ... should I?
Water spraying does not make me go faster. It keeps the pads from
fading.
I'm not sure if it was the water spraying, but I could outbrake
both Mike
and Chuck, which was the only way I could keep up with them.
I had some
problems at HP, first with the Ford fluid boiling on Saturday.
We replaced
the Ford fluid with Motul, which helped a great deal. Then,
when the brakes
were finally working great, I corded my Kuhmos on Sunday and
ran the last
session on street tires. All in all, not a great weekend for
setting fast
times.
I think he
>was the fastest because
there was human timing and only clocked him at
>most 0.5 second faster in
the 7 sessions we timed. Just trying to add some
substance. I know
Heartland Park is not Road
>Atlanta. And I know Rich was following
Chuck's line to learn it more so
>I don't know if we ever saw Rich break
out and have a best lap since he
>was doing more learning. Rich? How
much faster you think you coulda gone
without someone in
>front to slow
you down?
I have gone 2 seconds a lap faster under different conditions
-- colder and
on a new set of Kuhmos. Nevertheless, nobody was slowing me
down that day.
It was all I could do to keep up with Chuck and Mike. They
would pull away
with their boost controllers, and I'd catch up under braking,
and we were
even through the corners. I learned a lot that day just comparing
notes,
following Mike and Chuck, riding with Chuck, working with you on
brake
fluid and swapping pads, and all that stuff. First time I ever ran
with
another VR4. Much better than running alone.
If I had a boost
controller, I'd smoke both of them. OTOH, if they had
better brakes, they'd
smoke me. Maybe next time we'll all have improved
cars, all go two seconds a
lap faster, and still lap nose to tail. I'd like
that.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:39:35
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Handbrake turns
I SAID GENERALLY, MATT.
How many AutoX
their AWD car and do it well? I know of one ... well ...
two now.
You and Scott White in Rochester, NY.
And if you are doing that well
against the modded Porsches then those
drivers suck. I can't even beat
a 1976 911 with only stiffer anti-sway
bars and street tires. Maybe we
just have better people around here.
We do have the 2000 Street Mod National
Champ (Kent Rafferty) race with
us. I have inherited a host of tires
from him.
Our biggest classes are G stock, H stock, C stock and the
prepared
classes of those as well (Neons, Integras, Civics, CRXes,
Sentras,
etc.). Not many in A stock (last year's 3/S cars) or F stock
(this
year's 3/S cars) and not too many Camaro, Mustang, or Trans Am
either.
The courses are set up for small cars when Corvette AutoXes (I've
not
been to one) are set up for large cars.
- --Flash!
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, October 23,
2001 11:18
> Just remember that our cars generally are not good
at AutoX.
I beg to differ. ;-) My times are very close
to the modified Porsches
in
my class (A-Prepared) with my car on stock
suspension and street tires
where
they are on full-out race rubber and
have completely redone suspension
and
the whole works. 3/S cars can
be competitive just as any other car can
be... AutoX is 90%
driver.
...and my friend took the season trophy in the entire Stock
Street Tire
class with his completely bone-stock 1991 3000GT VR4 against all
sorts
of
Integras, Probes, VW's, Neons, etc.
Go figure.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:55:52
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
Yes. Track time with OTHER 3/S cars is
the only way. I am jealous
there will be so many at Sears Point this
weekend. Hopefully others
will start in the Northeast or Midwest for us
to drive with.
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
11:24
I have gone 2 seconds a lap faster under different conditions
-- colder
and
on a new set of Kuhmos. Nevertheless, nobody was slowing me
down that
day.
It was all I could do to keep up with Chuck and Mike. They
would pull
away
with their boost controllers, and I'd catch up under
braking, and we
were
even through the corners. I learned a lot that day
just comparing notes,
following Mike and Chuck, riding with Chuck, working
with you on brake
fluid and swapping pads, and all that stuff. First time I
ever ran with
another VR4. Much better than running alone.
If I had a
boost controller, I'd smoke both of them. OTOH, if they had
better brakes,
they'd smoke me. Maybe next time we'll all have improved
cars, all go two
seconds a lap faster, and still lap nose to tail. I'd
like
that.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:06:05
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
So then isn't Brad's transition
piece that part Jeff says he has a good
price for? I'm confused.
Why would you need this if you aren't doing
Big Reds? And if you are
doing Big Reds then Brad's kit comes equipped
with it.
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Floyd, Jim
[mailto:Jim_Floyd@Maxtor.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:48
To:
'dschilberg@pobox.com'Cc: 'Brad
Bedell'
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
Big
Reds, 993 and 996 all use the same brake pads.
-
---------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:20:34
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Porsche
996 caliper adapters
I may be able to get a pair of used 996 calipers at
a good deal. This is why
I would not purchase the full kit from Brad.
My problem then is I would
need the hardware alone. Brackets, hoses,
etc. I'll also need to track
down rotors, but that seems simple
enough. I don't have Brad's email handy
(I'm on a business trip right
now) otherwise I wouldn't have bothered the
list with this.
Jeff
VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:23:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: NOS injection effect on compression ratio and combustion chamber
volume.
- --- Jim Floyd wrote:
>> I had a local mustang owner
with NOS tell me this:
>> 1) Injecting NOS into your engine increases
the compression
>> ratio of the combustion chamber while injecting
NOS.
The actual (dynamic?) compression ratio (CR) is close to what
the
static CR is. The static CR is determined simply as the volume in
the
combustion chamber with the piston at BDC (bottom dead center)
divided
by the volume in the combustion chamber with the piston at
TDC (top dead
center). Adding NOS (nitrous oxide) or using forced
induction does not change
this.
However, forced induction does change the *density* of the
air
entering the combustion chamber - NOT THE VOLUME. Note that
for
convenience only we usually refer to air flow as the amount
of
*outside* air that has passed through the turbo or supercharger.
The
turbo or supercharger compresses the air and *reduces* the volume
to
that which can fit through the engine. Because the air is denser
some
people refer to an effective CR. Regardless, the problem with
denser
mixtures is that the flame front progresses faster than in less
dense
mixtures and so the chances for detonation are increased.
NOS
does not change the air density or volume by much. It changes the
relative
percentages of components in the air. It increases the
oxygen content. Not
denser (well maybe just a little because O is ~16
and N ~14 in the periodic
table). No more volume. No change in CR.
BUT, more oxygen requires more fuel,
essentially making a denser
mixture in the combustion chamber and so
increasing the chance for
knock. The cooling effect of NOS may offset the
increased potetntial
for knock; I am not that well versed in
NOS.
Spraying NOS into the air (in the intake tube), just like
spraying
water into the air, displaces the air. Because water contains
no
available oxygen for combustion (at the temps we are talking about)
the
amount of oxygen is always reduced as humidity rises. In an open
container
such as our intake track, the air does not compress, it
gets pushed aside.
NOS is providing a compound with more available
oxygen percentagewise so
oxygen availablity increases.
>> 2) Injecting NOS increases the
volume of gasoline in the
>> combustion chamber while injecting
NOS.
Of course. More oxygen requires more fuel - mass for mass. This
is
stating the trivial.
While on this subject, notice that the
highest available octane
gasoline at high elevation locations (Colorado for
instance) is lower
than the highest octane gas at lower elevations. The air
is less
dense up here so the flame front progresses a little slower in
the
combustion chamber. Less "octane" is needed. Well, less is needed
for
NA cars. Our turbo cars still need the highest octane we can
get.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@Maxtor.com>
To: "'Team
3S'" <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 8:52 AM
Subject: Team3S: NOS injection effect on
compression ratio and
combustion chamber volume.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:24:56
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Handbrake turns
> I SAID GENERALLY, MATT.
>
>
How many AutoX their AWD car and do it well? I know of one
> ...
well ... two now. You and Scott White in Rochester, NY.
Dennis
Grant does reasonably well at Nationals in his AWD Talon.
Fedja
Jelosovik (sp?) was doing well at Nationals for a few years in the mid
90's
with his Eclipse GSX AWD. Subaru WRX's are starting to do well
also now (at
least on the local events I've seen).
> And if you are
doing that well against the modded Porsches
> then those drivers
suck. I can't even beat a 1976 911 with
> only stiffer anti-sway
bars and street tires. Maybe we just
> have better people around
here. We do have the 2000 Street
> Mod National Champ (Kent Rafferty)
race with us. I have
> inherited a host of tires from him.
I
said the car can be competitive. Like I said, autocross is 90%
driver.
If you are losing, work on the driver.
Geez, give me a little
credit that I at least partially know what the hell I
am doing. Just
because you don't know anyone running 3/S cars in autocross
and doing well
doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Maybe if I bolted a Big Red kit on my
car then I could be a racing expert
too. Sheesh.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:29:45
+0100
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: NOS injection
NOS injection, does it work on diesel
engines?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:31:48
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
bbedell@austin.rr.comGood
luck. How much can you get them for?
- - Rotors are stock
Porterfield rotors from Mohler (cryo treating at your
request).
- - SS
lines from Mohler who had a sale a bit ago or Bedell.
- - Brake fluid from
Mohler.
- - Pads from Bedell (Pagid Orange), Carbotech (Panther Plus), or
Mohler
(Porterfield).
- - Instructions from my web page
(
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/BigReds_install.html).
Price
everything out and see how much you save. It will cost a bit
more
sending all the different items through the mail but I'm
still
interested to see how much more you saved.
- --Flash!
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal
Sent: Tuesday, October 23,
2001 12:21
I may be able to get a pair of used 996 calipers at a
good deal. This is
why
I would not purchase the full kit from Brad.
My problem then is I would
need the hardware alone. Brackets, hoses,
etc. I'll also need to track
down rotors, but that seems simple
enough. I don't have Brad's email
handy
(I'm on a business trip
right now) otherwise I wouldn't have bothered
the list with
this.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:43:39
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Handbrake turns
Okay ... enough slinging Matt. When I talk
about the road racers I know
it is the small minority of us out there (I
don't think there are more
than 20-30 who do it regularly throughout the
year). Maybe it is the
same number of AutoXers as well (the AWD guys
... the FWD guys seem to
like drag strips and AutoX equally).
Those
guys you mentioned are using the smaller and lighter weight AWD
cars. I
just never see in the standings where our cars are beating the
same
technology but lighter cars, that's all. Maybe I'm looking at the
wrong
regions.
By bolting the Big Reds on does not mean I am an expert but I
put them
on for use on high-heat and higher speed applications such as a
road
course. My mods are practically useless on an AutoX course:
-
-Tires are for higher heat and longer wear applications
- -Rollbar is not
required in AutoX or drag racing
- -Race seat DOES help in AutoX
-
-Harnesses DO help in AutoX
- -Removing back seat does NOT help in AutoX
since it weighs at most 20
pounds
- -Driving shoes are flame retardant and
not required in AutoX
- -Driving suit it flame retardant and not required in
AutoX
- -Gloves are flame retardant and not required in AutoX
- -K&N
FIPK does not help at low speeds as much as high speeds and long
runs under
full throttle.
There is definitely a difference in AutoX and road
driving. The only
main similarities I can note are ... well ... you
press the brake to
slow down, press the throttle to speed up, turn the wheel
to turn.
Other than that the similarity is done other than turns have
turn-in
points, apexes, and track out points. In road course driving
you don't
burn a clutch starting on a road course (rolling starts from Pit
lane),
you never shift into first gear unless you go off track, you get
to
check your mirrors and gauges and interact with other cars on
the
course, and you have a professional instructor giving pointers the
whole
time.
I did learn tons in AutoX (the fact that the turns come
faster, reaction
time is at a peak, etc.) but just prefer to road courses
(they show off
the skills of the car better and give you more time to think
about the
next turn). Can't we just leave it at the fact that now that
I've done
my AutoX events I prefer road courses? I've done drag events
just to
get a time but now I prefer road courses. You think Big Reds
help me on
the drag strip? Nope. Rollbar? Nope. I
began to setup my car for
nothing but road courses.
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4 with heavy mods for the road course yet still the daily driver
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, October 23,
2001 12:25
Dennis Grant does reasonably well at Nationals in his
AWD Talon. Fedja
Jelosovik (sp?) was doing well at Nationals for a few
years in the mid
90's
with his Eclipse GSX AWD. Subaru WRX's are
starting to do well also now
(at
least on the local events I've
seen).
I said the car can be competitive. Like I said, autocross is
90%
driver.
If you are losing, work on the driver.
Geez, give me a
little credit that I at least partially know what the
hell I
am
doing. Just because you don't know anyone running 3/S cars
in
autocross
and doing well doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Maybe
if I bolted a Big Red kit on my car then I could be a
racing
expert
too. Sheesh.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:06:19
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: NOS injection effect on compression ratio and combustion
chamber volume.
You increase cylinder pressure, nothing you do
short of different
pistons/etc will change compression ratio.
On Tue,
23 Oct 2001, Floyd, Jim wrote:
> I had a local mustang owner with
NOS tell me this:
> 1) Injecting NOS into your engine increases the
compression ratio of
> the combustion chamber while injecting NOS.
>
2) Injecting NOS increases the volume of gasoline in the combustion
>
chamber while injecting NOS.
> Because you have to
increase gas volume during NOS injection.
>
> Is this true ?
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:10:48
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
FWIW, the adaptors do not reduce
the cost of the kit much, its mostly in
the calipers/brakes/lines.
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Jeff VanOrsdal wrote:
> I may be able to
get a pair of used 996 calipers at a good deal. This is why
> I would not
purchase the full kit from Brad. My problem then is I would
> need
the hardware alone. Brackets, hoses, etc. I'll also need to
track
> down rotors, but that seems simple enough. I don't have
Brad's email handy
> (I'm on a business trip right now) otherwise I
wouldn't have bothered the
> list with this.
>
> Jeff
VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.comGeoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:01:10
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Random ? on Brakes
While we are on the topic of brakes.... Does
anyone know if the second gen
rotors/calipers in the REAR are larger than
those found on the first gen? I
am looking at Binder upgrades for the
spring...was kicking around going with
the AP Racing 13.5/6 pot upgrade for
the front and 2nd Gen binders in the
rear if they are larger.
Thanks
Guys/Gals
Russ F
CT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:21:45
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Random ? on Brakes
They are a different part number 585=1st
gen, 786=2nd gen.
I can get sizes if anyone needs to know
specifically.
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
While we are on the topic of brakes.... Does anyone know if the second
gen
> rotors/calipers in the REAR are larger than those found on the first
gen? I
> am looking at Binder upgrades for the spring...was kicking
around going with
> the AP Racing 13.5/6 pot upgrade for the front and 2nd
Gen binders in the
> rear if they are larger.
>
> Thanks
Guys/Gals
>
> Russ F
> CT
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:14:37
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23,
2001 10:24 AM
> To:
dschilberg@pobox.com; 'Team3S'
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
>
> At 10:40 AM 10/23/01
-0400, Darren Schilberg wrote:
> >And I shouldn't comment how at Kansas
Rich was doing his water spraying
> >magic and not going 5 seconds
faster than us ... should I?
>
> Water spraying does not make me
go faster. It keeps the pads from fading.
> I'm not sure if it was the
water spraying, but I could outbrake both Mike
> and Chuck, which
was the only way I could keep up with them.
[Willis, Charles E.]
Late braking is a standard racing trick for catching up
with
anybody. Unless Michael and I were braking at the threshold of
wheel lockup
at the last possible moment, anyone can wait until our lights go
on and then
hit their brakes a little harder a little farther down the track
and
overtake with the same turnin speed. Rich describes "standing" on
the
brakes. I don't do that. Neither does Mike, but he also has
F40 calipers.
When I drove behind Mike and Rich (as Jim can testify as a
passenger), their
brake lights came on far sooner than I started braking -
best example turn
1.
>
> I have gone 2
seconds a lap faster under different conditions -- colder
> and
> on
a new set of Kuhmos. Nevertheless, nobody was slowing me down that day.
>
It was all I could do to keep up with Chuck and Mike. They would pull
away
> with their boost controllers, and I'd catch up under braking, and
we were
> even through the corners. I learned a lot that day just
comparing notes,
> following Mike and Chuck, riding with Chuck, working
with you on brake
> fluid and swapping pads, and all that stuff. First
time I ever ran with
> another VR4. Much better than running alone.
>
[Willis, Charles E.] I think Rich and Mike are faster because
of
better skills and reaction times, respectively. Give Rich a
boost
controller and he would keep up with Mike. An advanced instructor
this
weekend said the only thing he thinks I need to decrease my lap times on
my
home track is bigger braking power, which both Mike and Rich already
have.
Mike wore his brakes down to the backers and broke two rotors.
Rich
chuncked his tires. I corded my front right tire. Driving with
other VR4's
is terrific!
> If I had a boost controller, I'd smoke
both of them. OTOH, if they had
> better brakes, they'd smoke me. Maybe
next time we'll all have improved
> cars, all go two seconds a lap faster,
and still lap nose to tail. I'd
> like that.
>
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:14:47
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: AutoX/Solo II and VR-4s WAS: Handbrake turns
> > Just
remember that our cars generally are not good at AutoX.
>
>
I beg to differ. ;-)
I'm gonna have to beg to differ as well
:-) Especially here in the
NW (where we've already used up our 3 sunny
days for the year), AWD cars
often have a significant advantage when it's
wet. They also seem to do
fairly well in the dry as well.
Two
weekends ago, I ran my 2nd AutoX competition, and I had one of
the *best
times* (in my class) in the morning session. The track was wet
from the
night before, and it only sprinkled for about 10 minutes during
the
session. In the novice class, almost all of the 15 people ahead of
me in
the standings for the day ran the afternoon session (when the track
had
dried out). In the morning session I ran, there were some people
who had
better raw times than I, but most of them hit a cone or two. I
hit a total
of one cone in my first 3 runs, and I was pushing it hard.
I could not
believe the car stuck with what I was asking of it. I was
amazed at the
speed with which I could enter/leave "C" boxes and
slaloms. On top of that,
I was only running 0.5 Bar on my boost
controller, since I hadn't had time
to recalibrate it for the Stillen
downpipe and didn't want to worry about
boost spikes.
As of that event,
I've been to 2 AutoX events, one AutoX school, and
one Track Day. And
I've only owned my VR-4 for 5 months. So, given that
there were many
people out there at that AutoX who've done this for YEARS
and have many, many
more hours of track time than I, the VR-4 must at least
be competitive, if
not provide an some advantage. I pick up on things
quickly, but not
THAT quickly. The comments I got from instructors riding
with me early
in the day at the AutoX school (it was dry) were: 1) "You
need to push
your car harder - it can take a lot more than you think. Spend
more
time at WOT." (first few runs of the day as I was getting used to the
course)
2) "You know your car well - you're very smooth with the controls.
Perhaps
you need to be a little quicker with your steering input.
Slow-fast-slow as
one continuous motion." (later on in the day) and 3) "I
can't believe a
car this big and heavy handles this well." (slalom/hairpin
station).
Yeah,
I'll be out there next AutoX season with my VR-4.
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Black 3000GT VR-4 (6MT, AWD, 4WS,
ECS) 36,000
mi
Track Setup: FIPK, HKS TT Exhaust, GReddy
PRofecA,
GReddy TypeS BPV, Stillen DP, TEC Front ST Brace,
Cusco Rear ST Brace, Optima RedTop,
SpeedBleeders,
Porterfield Cryo Front Rotors, R4S Front Pads,
Firehawk SZ50EP 245/45/ZR17 @43/37(AutoX), '94 VR-4
Wheels
'94 Algae-Blue "fun to slide around corners" Corolla 80,000mi
http://www.Team3S.com/~egross***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:17:12
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Handbrake turns
> Okay ... enough slinging
Matt.
You implied I don't know how to drive by saying that the other
drivers that
I'm competing with suck. They are road racers who
generally win those types
of events.
All I did was mention that
perceptions like "Just remember that our cars
generally are not good at
AutoX. I routinely get beat by a New Beetle, FWD
Talon, Integra (NON
Type R), etc." can be misleading as our cars CAN be and
are capable of
holding their own against those cars. Even in autocross.
-
-Matt
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:18:38
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
correction - rotors are stock
SECOND GEN VR4 or custom two piece like Jim's.
Jeff is not going to be able
to use his stock 1st gen rotors with Brad's
caliper adapter.
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:32
AM
> To: 'Team3s Tech List'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Porsche 996
caliper adapters
>
>
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
>
Good luck. How much can you get them for?
>
> - Rotors are
stock Porterfield rotors from Mohler (cryo treating at your
>
request).
> - SS lines from Mohler who had a sale a bit ago or
Bedell.
> - Brake fluid from Mohler.
> - Pads from Bedell (Pagid
Orange), Carbotech (Panther Plus), or Mohler
> (Porterfield).
> -
Instructions from my web page
> (
www.Team3S.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/BigReds_install.html).
>
> Price everything out and see how much you save. It will cost a
bit more
> sending all the different items through the mail but I'm
still
> interested to see how much more you saved.
>
>
--Flash!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff
VanOrsdal
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 12:21
>
> I
may be able to get a pair of used 996 calipers at a good deal. This is
>
why
> I would not purchase the full kit from Brad. My problem then
is I would
> need the hardware alone. Brackets, hoses, etc.
I'll also need to track
> down rotors, but that seems simple enough.
I don't have Brad's email
> handy
> (I'm on a business trip right
now) otherwise I wouldn't have bothered
> the
> list with
this.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:38:26
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: AutoX/Solo II and VR-4s WAS: Handbrake turns
I routinely
kicked asses in AS and BSP in our VR4, everytime we'd travel
to another
region to go play, we'd BOTH walk away with 1st and 2nd places.
On Tue,
23 Oct 2001, Gross, Erik wrote:
> > > Just remember that our
cars generally are not good at AutoX.
> >
> > I beg to
differ. ;-)
>
> I'm gonna have to beg to differ as
well :-) Especially here in the
> NW (where we've already used up
our 3 sunny days for the year), AWD cars
> often have a significant
advantage when it's wet. They also seem to do
> fairly well in the
dry as well.
> Two weekends ago, I ran my 2nd AutoX competition,
and I had one of
> the *best times* (in my class) in the morning
session. The track was wet
> from the night before, and it only
sprinkled for about 10 minutes during the
> session. In the novice
class, almost all of the 15 people ahead of me in
> the standings for the
day ran the afternoon session (when the track had
> dried out). In
the morning session I ran, there were some people who had
> better raw
times than I, but most of them hit a cone or two. I hit a total
> of
one cone in my first 3 runs, and I was pushing it hard. I could
not
> believe the car stuck with what I was asking of it. I was
amazed at the
> speed with which I could enter/leave "C" boxes and
slaloms. On top of that,
> I was only running 0.5 Bar on my boost
controller, since I hadn't had time
> to recalibrate it for the Stillen
downpipe and didn't want to worry about
> boost spikes.
> As of that
event, I've been to 2 AutoX events, one AutoX school, and
> one Track
Day. And I've only owned my VR-4 for 5 months. So, given
that
> there were many people out there at that AutoX who've done this for
YEARS
> and have many, many more hours of track time than I, the VR-4 must
at least
> be competitive, if not provide an some advantage. I pick
up on things
> quickly, but not THAT quickly. The comments I got
from instructors riding
> with me early in the day at the AutoX school (it
was dry) were: 1) "You
> need to push your car harder - it can take
a lot more than you think. Spend
> more time at WOT." (first few
runs of the day as I was getting used to the
> course) 2) "You know your
car well - you're very smooth with the controls.
> Perhaps you need to be
a little quicker with your steering input.
> Slow-fast-slow as one
continuous motion." (later on in the day) and 3) "I
> can't believe
a car this big and heavy handles this well." (slalom/hairpin
>
station).
> Yeah, I'll be out there next AutoX season with my
VR-4.
>
> --Erik
>
------
----------
> Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
> '95 Black 3000GT VR-4 (6MT, AWD, 4WS,
ECS) 36,000
mi
> Track Setup: FIPK, HKS TT Exhaust, GReddy
PRofecA,
> GReddy TypeS BPV, Stillen DP, TEC Front ST
Brace,
> Cusco Rear ST Brace, Optima RedTop,
SpeedBleeders,
> Porterfield Cryo Front Rotors, R4S
Front Pads,
> Firehawk SZ50EP 245/45/ZR17
@43/37(AutoX), '94 VR-4 Wheels
> '94 Algae-Blue "fun to slide around
corners" Corolla 80,000mi
>
http://www.Team3S.com/~egrossGeoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:27:38
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
Chuck -- You also teach to hit the brakes
harder at first and then back
off of them, right? I was always taught
this is the worst thing to do
(maybe with your stock brakes and Panther pads
it works). When I do
that with my Big Reds they grab so hard initially
that the wheel locks
up (not sure which one) and the backend gets
loose. In-car footage of
this also.
I now have to start braking
and get harder as the corner gets closer.
I also wore down to the backing
plate on the front pads. Didn't crack a
rotor luckily. Racing ...
er ... driving with other 3/S cars is truly a
blast.
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles
E.
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 13:15
Late braking is a
standard racing trick for catching up with
anybody. Unless Michael and
I were braking at the threshold of wheel
lockup
at the last possible
moment, anyone can wait until our lights go on and
then
hit their brakes a
little harder a little farther down the track and
overtake with the same
turnin speed. Rich describes "standing" on the
brakes. I don't do
that. Neither does Mike, but he also has F40
calipers.
When I drove
behind Mike and Rich (as Jim can testify as a passenger),
their
brake
lights came on far sooner than I started braking - best
example
turn
1.
I think Rich and Mike are faster
because of
better skills and reaction times, respectively. Give Rich a
boost
controller and he would keep up with Mike. An advanced instructor
this
weekend said the only thing he thinks I need to decrease my lap times
on
my
home track is bigger braking power, which both Mike and Rich
already
have.
Mike wore his brakes down to the backers and broke two
rotors. Rich
chuncked his tires. I corded my front right tire.
Driving with other
VR4's is terrific!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:29:54
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
Sorry that I can't memorize
everyone's cars and applications all the
time. Remember that Jeff is
the one with a VR-4 motor in his Stealth ES
I recall. How do I know he
didn't already upgrade to second gen VR-4
brakes? At least, I think
this is the car I saw at Ocean City. Hence
the letter "X" in the
badge.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
13:19
correction - rotors are stock SECOND GEN VR4 or custom two
piece like
Jim's.
Jeff is not going to be able to use his stock 1st gen
rotors with Brad's
caliper adapter.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:48:11
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
> I now have to start braking and get
harder as the corner gets closer.
- ---
This sounds like you could be
braking more later and still avoid lockup.
Dunno, I havent driven a 3S in
so long anyway..
> I also wore down to the backing plate on the
front pads. Didn't crack a
> rotor luckily. Racing ... er ...
driving with other 3/S cars is truly a
> blast.
>
>
--Flash!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis,
Charles E.
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 13:15
>
>
Late braking is a standard racing trick for catching up with
>
anybody. Unless Michael and I were braking at the threshold of
wheel
> lockup
> at the last possible moment, anyone can wait until
our lights go on and
> then
> hit their brakes a little harder a
little farther down the track and
> overtake with the same turnin
speed. Rich describes "standing" on the
> brakes. I don't do
that. Neither does Mike, but he also has F40
> calipers.
>
When I drove behind Mike and Rich (as Jim can testify as a passenger),
>
their
> brake lights came on far sooner than I started braking - best
example
> turn
> 1.
>
> I think Rich
and Mike are faster because of
> better skills and reaction times,
respectively. Give Rich a boost
> controller and he would keep up
with Mike. An advanced instructor this
> weekend said the only thing
he thinks I need to decrease my lap times on
> my
> home track is
bigger braking power, which both Mike and Rich already
> have.
>
Mike wore his brakes down to the backers and broke two rotors.
Rich
> chuncked his tires. I corded my front right tire. Driving
with other
> VR4's
> is terrific!
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:42:55
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Handbrake turns
Okay ... fair enough.
Now I can send you
to the page of results so you can see that when I get
beat I don't care most
times what percentage that is. In raw numbers it
was by between 0.75
and 3.0 seconds. Not long to most people but on a
45-second course that
is between 1.6% and 6.6% faster. Take them to a
road course and I spank
them by a full 10 seconds (at Nelson Ledges)
over 1:40 which is a full
10%. The same % different in AutoX (6%) on
the road course of Watkins
Glen (2:35) is a difference of 9.3 seconds
and I would beat them more than
that on that course. Get them on a
small, tight, twisty course and they
beat me. No questions asked.
The mods I do to my car are for the
road course. Not to make it look
pretty. Not for a
dragstrip. Not for AutoX. Not for car shows. Not
for
touring the highway. We have all of those people on the
list
however. Sorry they had to sit through these non-technical
emails.
> You implied I don't know how to drive by saying that the
other drivers
> That I'm competing with suck. They are road
racers who generally win
> those types of events.
What types of
events? Road events or AutoX events? Remember that road
events
are not AutoX events by any stretch of imagination. I have
never
personally witnessed a 3/S car mostly stock do good at any
small-course
AutoX. There is one two hours away in Ohio with 60+ second
courses that
might be better-suited and the Nationals are probably better
suited but
I have not seen our car without suspension or engine mods do
well. End
of story.
From now on, you are God, Matt. You
are the best damned racer I've ever
known. Fair enough? You and I
need to meet up sometime I guess to bury
the hatchet.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:43:39
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
Who taught you to ease onto the
brakes? I don't know any book or high
performance driving school that
teaches that. That is exactly what is taught
in street driver's education for
the comfort of the passengers. Threashold
braking is to get on the brakes
hard initially APPROACHING wheel lockup, not
CAUSING wheel lockup. If
the back end gets loose when you brake hard
initially, then I'd be willing to
bet the wheels weren't pointed in a
straight line - I can make the rear end
get loose all day doing that.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 12:28 PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
>
> Chuck -- You also teach to hit
the brakes harder at first and then back
> off of them, right? I was
always taught this is the worst thing to do
> (maybe with your stock
brakes and Panther pads it works). When I do
> that with my Big Reds
they grab so hard initially that the wheel locks
> up (not sure which one)
and the backend gets loose. In-car footage of
> this also.
>
> I now have to start braking and get harder as the corner gets
closer.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:46:52
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NOS injection
No... there is "propane"
injection... But that's all I know about it.
- -Cody
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of George Shaw
Sent: Tuesday,
October 23, 2001 11:30 AM
To: Team3S Technical Forum
Subject: Team3S: NOS
injection
NOS injection, does it work on diesel
engines?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:47:51
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: AutoX/Solo II and VR-4s WAS: Handbrake turns
Again ... this is a
modded car. BC, downpipe, exhaust, front strut
tower brace. Not
stock by any means.
Kudos, though Erik. We only get to race in dry
conditions at AutoX. No
fun for me. They don't run in the
rain/snow. Delay it until the rain
stops and most people don't even run
when it is wet. They just come
back next week.
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Gross, Erik
Sent: Tuesday,
October 23, 2001 13:15
To: 'Team3S List (E-mail)'
Subject: Team3S:
AutoX/Solo II and VR-4s WAS: Handbrake turns
> > Just remember that
our cars generally are not good at AutoX.
>
> I beg to
differ. ;-)
I'm gonna have to beg to differ as well
:-) Especially here in
the
NW (where we've already used up our 3
sunny days for the year), AWD cars
often have a significant advantage when
it's wet. They also seem to do
fairly well in the dry as well.
Two weekends ago, I ran my 2nd AutoX competition, and I had one
of
the
*best times* (in my class) in the morning session. The track
was
wet
from the night before, and it only sprinkled for about 10 minutes
during
the
session. In the novice class, almost all of the 15 people
ahead of me
in
the standings for the day ran the afternoon session (when
the track had
dried out). In the morning session I ran, there were some
people who
had
better raw times than I, but most of them hit a cone or
two. I hit a
total
of one cone in my first 3 runs, and I was pushing
it hard. I could not
believe the car stuck with what I was asking of
it. I was amazed at the
speed with which I could enter/leave "C" boxes
and slaloms. On top of
that,
I was only running 0.5 Bar on my boost
controller, since I hadn't had
time
to recalibrate it for the Stillen
downpipe and didn't want to worry
about
boost spikes.
As of that event,
I've been to 2 AutoX events, one AutoX school,
and
one Track Day.
And I've only owned my VR-4 for 5 months. So, given
that
there were
many people out there at that AutoX who've done this for
YEARS
and have
many, many more hours of track time than I, the VR-4 must at
least
be
competitive, if not provide an some advantage. I pick up on
things
quickly, but not THAT quickly. The comments I got from
instructors
riding
with me early in the day at the AutoX school (it was
dry) were: 1) "You
need to push your car harder - it can take a lot
more than you think.
Spend
more time at WOT." (first few runs of the day
as I was getting used to
the
course) 2) "You know your car well - you're
very smooth with the
controls.
Perhaps you need to be a little quicker
with your steering input.
Slow-fast-slow as one continuous motion."
(later on in the day) and 3)
"I
can't believe a car this big and heavy
handles this well."
(slalom/hairpin
station).
Yeah, I'll be out there
next AutoX season with my VR-4.
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Black 3000GT VR-4 (6MT, AWD, 4WS,
ECS) 36,000
mi
Track Setup: FIPK, HKS TT Exhaust, GReddy
PRofecA,
GReddy TypeS BPV, Stillen DP, TEC Front ST Brace,
Cusco Rear ST Brace, Optima RedTop,
SpeedBleeders,
Porterfield Cryo Front Rotors, R4S Front Pads,
Firehawk SZ50EP 245/45/ZR17 @43/37(AutoX), '94 VR-4
Wheels
'94 Algae-Blue "fun to slide around corners" Corolla 80,000mi
http://www.Team3S.com/~egross***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:55:56
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
I believe it was Skip Barber's "Going Faster"
book that told me to start
braking at 10% then 20% then 40% then 60%.
I'll have to find it in the
book. I don't think anyone SLAMS on the
brakes and then eases off of
them. That is just nuts. You start
at 0 and apply harder, harder, and
harder and then release. Now the
time going from 0% to 80% braking
might be 0.25 seconds or it might be over
300 feet but still you start
easy and get harder.
The wheel lockup
point was at Mid-Ohio. Backstretch. Braking at the
400 foot mark
initially until I got used to what to do. Doing 120 mph
at that
point. Perfectly straight line. I pushed the pedal to the
floor
and we dove forward (stock suspension remember) a chirp was heard
(most
likely one of the front wheels) and the back end got squirrely.
Hands were
perfectly straight (meaning the front wheels were straight as
well).
Have that on video for proof.
Can anyone backup that Big Reds grab too
hard initially to absolutely
slam on the brakes? Rich?
-
--Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
13:44
Who taught you to ease onto the brakes? I don't know
any book or high
performance driving school that teaches that. That is
exactly what is
taught
in street driver's education for the comfort of the
passengers.
Threashold
braking is to get on the brakes hard initially
APPROACHING wheel lockup,
not
CAUSING wheel lockup. If the back end
gets loose when you brake hard
initially, then I'd be willing to bet the
wheels weren't pointed in a
straight line - I can make the rear end get loose
all day doing that.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:55:04
-0400
From: Curtis McConnel <
CMcConnel@Pulte.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: NOS injection
Just out of curiosity.... Can you not run NOS in a
diesel because it will
cool the chamber too much?
Curtis 1995 V4-4
Spyder
- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
[mailto:overclck@starband.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:47
AM
To:
george.shaw@btinternet.com;
'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: NOS injection
No... there is
"propane" injection... But that's all I know about it.
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of George Shaw
Sent: Tuesday,
October 23, 2001 11:30 AM
To: Team3S Technical Forum
Subject: Team3S: NOS
injection
NOS injection, does it work on diesel engines?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:01:48
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
NOS injection
I would expect NOS would work on a diesel but the cylinder
pressures are
very high to start with, you 're likely to blow the heads
off.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: cody <
overclck@starband.net>
To: <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>;
'Team3S' <
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: NOS
injection
> No... there is "propane" injection... But
that's all I know about it.
>
> -Cody
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of George Shaw
> Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:30 AM
> To: Team3S Technical Forum
>
Subject: Team3S: NOS injection
>
>
> NOS injection, does it
work on diesel engines?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:07:01
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: AutoX/Solo II and VR-4s WAS: Handbrake turns
> Again ... this
is a modded car. BC, downpipe, exhaust, front strut
> tower
brace. Not stock by any means.
Technically, yes. But as I
said, I had my BC set at 7psi, so I was nowhere
near stock horsepower, let
alone "modified" power. Intake and exhaust help
with throttle response
and turbo spool, but I think setting the BC at 7psi
pretty much negates those
modifications for the purposes of our discussion.
The front and rear strut
tower braces help some with handling (exactly how
much, I don't know), but
just about EVERY car at this AutoX had strut tower
braces. Thus I think
that's a wash as well. I ran with full interior,
spare tire, jack,
tools, seats, FULL tank of gas, etc. I also had stock
wheels (from a
'94, but who cares? :-) and DOT-legal tires. I even had my
stock brakes
on that day since I didn't have time to change to the R4S ones.
Stock?
No. Reasonably close? Yeah.
> Kudos, though Erik. We
only get to race in dry conditions at
> AutoX. No fun for me.
They don't run in the rain/snow.
> Delay it until the rain stops and most
people don't even
> run when it is wet. They just come back next
week.
Thanks - you need to get the guys out there to stop being wussies
<g> and
run in the wet! It's so much fun :-) I'm curious to
see how I'll do next
season when I get a few more dry events under my
belt. ...I wish we got
snow here (too close to the water) - AutoX in
the snow... that'd be
interesting.
- --Erik
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:09:40
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: AutoX/Solo II and VR-4s WAS: Handbrake turns
> Thanks -
you need to get the guys out there to stop being
> wussies <g> and
run in the wet! It's so much fun :-) I'm
> curious to see how
I'll do next season when I get a few more
> dry events under my
belt. ...I wish we got snow here (too
> close to the water) - AutoX
in the snow... that'd be interesting.
Around here we do it on dirt
(snow is too dangerous)... They call it
RallyCross. I don't do it
in the 3000, but I tried it a few times with my
Eclipse GSX - lotsa fun, but
lots of cleaning afterwards! Ice racing is
fun, too.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:11:03
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: NOS injection
Diesels need oxygen also.
Here are a
couple of places that sells kits for diesel engines.
http://www.magnumforceracing.com/store4/nitrous_kits_diesel.htmhttp://speeddepot.com/NOS.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
To:
"Team3S Technical Forum" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: Team3S: NOS injection
NOS
injection, does it work on diesel engines?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:11:18
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
Chuck -- Read below an excerpt from a
book. What did Geoff just say?
He would take info from a book over the
advice from someone's mouth any
day? In this case so do I. Like I
said, your stock brakes might
perform differently than my Big Reds. I
can not slam. Front wheel
lockup and rear end dancing. Maybe you
should remember this before
instructing someone with huge front brakes and a
heavy car next time.
<grin>
Skip Barber's "Going Faster"
book
Page 73
Chapter 5: Braking and Entering
Block 1: Throttle-Brake
Transition
Section: No Slams
"Here, you're moving your foot from the
throttle to the brake pedal
*fast*, but the build up of pressure is a
hard-squeeze as opposed to a
"slam." Slamming on the brakes is a common
mistake. Some drivers hit
the brake pedal as if driving a nail with a
hammer. This often results
in instantaneous front wheel lockup.
This lockup occurs because the
front brakes start slowing down the front
tires before load transfer can
help deliver extra grip."
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren
Schilberg
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 13:56
I believe it was
Skip Barber's "Going Faster" book that told me to start
braking at 10% then
20% then 40% then 60%. I'll have to find it in the
book. I don't
think anyone SLAMS on the brakes and then eases off of
them. That is
just nuts. You start at 0 and apply harder, harder, and
harder and then
release. Now the time going from 0% to 80% braking
might be 0.25
seconds or it might be over 300 feet but still you start
easy and get
harder.
The wheel lockup point was at Mid-Ohio. Backstretch.
Braking at the
400 foot mark initially until I got used to what to do.
Doing 120 mph
at that point. Perfectly straight line. I pushed
the pedal to the
floor and we dove forward (stock suspension remember) a
chirp was heard
(most likely one of the front wheels) and the back end got
squirrely.
Hands were perfectly straight (meaning the front wheels were
straight as
well). Have that on video for proof.
Can anyone
backup that Big Reds grab too hard initially to absolutely
slam on the
brakes? Rich?
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
13:44
Who taught you to ease onto the brakes? I don't know
any book or high
performance driving school that teaches that. That is
exactly what is
taught
in street driver's education for the comfort of the
passengers.
Threashold
braking is to get on the brakes hard initially
APPROACHING wheel lockup,
not
CAUSING wheel lockup. If the back end
gets loose when you brake hard
initially, then I'd be willing to bet the
wheels weren't pointed in a
straight line - I can make the rear end get loose
all day doing that.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:26:12
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday,
October 23, 2001 12:56 PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
RE:squirting water
>
> I believe it was Skip Barber's "Going
Faster" book that told me to start
> braking at 10% then 20% then 40% then
60%. I'll have to find it in the
> book. I don't think anyone
SLAMS on the brakes and then eases off of
> them. That is just
nuts. You start at 0 and apply harder, harder, and
> harder and then
release. Now the time going from 0% to 80% braking
> might be 0.25
seconds or it might be over 300 feet but still you start
> easy and get
harder.
[Willis, Charles E.] I've got the book, too. I will look
and be
extremely surprised if they say that.
> The wheel lockup
point was at Mid-Ohio. Backstretch. Braking at the
> 400 foot
mark initially until I got used to what to do. Doing 120 mph
> at
that point. Perfectly straight line. I pushed the pedal to
the
> floor and we dove forward (stock suspension remember) a chirp was
heard
> (most likely one of the front wheels) and the back end got
squirrely.
> Hands were perfectly straight (meaning the front wheels were
straight as
> well). Have that on video for proof.
[Willis,
Charles E.] 1) my steering wheel is about 15 degrees off -
depends on
where you put your hands.
2) As I recall you are not running improved
pads on the rear. You
are making my point for me - you pushed the pedal
to the floor, you didn't
need to. Try pushing a little lighter to start
with and let up from there.
> Can anyone backup that Big Reds grab
too hard initially to absolutely
> slam on the brakes?
Rich?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:45:10
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
I don't have that good a memory
either - I just read his signature block
which said '91
...
Chuck
(best thing about Altsheimers is that I keep making new
friends everyday!)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren
Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
12:30 PM
> To: 'Team3s Tech List'
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
Porsche 996 caliper adapters
>
> Sorry that I can't memorize
everyone's cars and applications all the
> time. Remember that Jeff
is the one with a VR-4 motor in his Stealth ES
> I recall. How do I
know he didn't already upgrade to second gen VR-4
> brakes? At
least, I think this is the car I saw at Ocean City. Hence
> the
letter "X" in the badge.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 13:19
>
> correction - rotors
are stock SECOND GEN VR4 or custom two piece like
> Jim's.
> Jeff is
not going to be able to use his stock 1st gen rotors with Brad's
> caliper
adapter.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:36:45
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
This quote is not at all different from
what I have been saying - I said
don't stand on the brakes. I said
"Approach the threashold of wheel
lockup", NOT "Lockup the wheels".
This quote is NOT saying "EASE onto the brakes" or "RAMP UP on the
brakes".
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:11
PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
>
> "Here, you're moving your foot from the throttle to the brake
pedal
> *fast*, but the build up of pressure is a hard-squeeze as opposed
to a
> "slam." Slamming on the brakes is a common mistake.
Some drivers hit
> the brake pedal as if driving a nail with a
hammer. This often results
> in instantaneous front wheel
lockup. This lockup occurs because the
> front brakes start slowing
down the front tires before load transfer can
> help deliver extra
grip."
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:46:59
-0500
From: "John C. Davidson" <
jd@edge-software.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
> Can anyone backup that Big Reds grab too
hard initially to absolutely
> slam on the brakes? Rich?
I
don't hit the track, but I can confirm that the Big Reds can
be locked up
rather easily. I've done it a few times, some testcases
and some
real-world necessity, but the rear never got loose on me (all
were relatively
straight line stops).
I found that braking hard right to the point of
lockup then quickly
easing off just a bit works best for me. FWIW, I am
running 275s
all around, have porterfield rotors, the OE porsche pads up
front,
porterfield pads on the rears, and have SS lines.
-JD
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:02:37
-0700 (PDT)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
As long as we're on the subject of squirting
water..
has anyone seen this?
http://www.seinesystems.com/MPC-Home.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:02:57
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: ?Re: Team3S:
RE:squirting water
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Willis,
Charles E. <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
This quote is not at all different from what I have been saying - I said
>
don't stand on the brakes. I said "Approach the threshold of wheel
>
lockup", NOT "Lockup the wheels".
?!?!?! does this mean you drive
without the ABS ?!?!?!?!
With ABS you should be able to hammer the brakes
without fear
of lockup. As a matter of fact you can't find wheel lockup point
on
our car with ABS because you dont get that vibration/feedback
from the
pedal.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:10:10
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porsche 996 caliper adapters
I know, Chuck, I read it also but
his signature does not tell you he has
a VR-4 engine in a Stealth ES does
it? I happened to remember that from
seeing it at Ocean City. I
was assuming that if was asking about Big
Reds he was already familiar with
the concept and either already
upgraded to second gen rotors or didn't need
to worry about that (since
he only mentioned the calipers and lines and
nothing about pads and
fluid).
Alzheimer's also lets you hide your own
Easter Eggs.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and Big Reds
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
13:45
I don't have that good a memory either - I just read his
signature block
which said '91 ...
Chuck
(best thing about
Altsheimers is that I keep making new friends
everyday!)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:00:49
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE:squirting water
Rich...they told Orville and Wilbur that they couldn't
fly. A wealth of
information was published on the subject, that relegated
such fanciful
thinking to realm of madcaps and birds. Keep on a keepin
on ;-)) If it
works, and works good, why stop using
it.
Darc
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:08:22
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speed
Bleeder Discount For Team3S Members
I think the only difference is the
bleeders. And apparently, as Jeff noted,
only for about a year
period.
Darc
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles
E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 6:22 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeder Discount
For Team3S Members
> Wow! If the bleed screws are different are
the rear calipers
> different too? Or still just the old single
piston floating caliper?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Darc [SMTP:wce@telus.net]
> > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001
8:20 PM
> > To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speed Bleeder Discount For Team3S Members
>
>
> > An FYI addendum this subject.... The Stealth 1st
Gen TT's do not take
> > the
> > size 7 on the rears as
reported in previous threads. The size 7 is for
the
> > Mitsu 1st
gen rears only. This information is reflected accurately at
the
> >
Speed Bleeder site where 10's are noted for Stealth rears, and 7's for
>
> Mitsu
> > rears. So, do note this difference in the cars, and do
not go by
previous
> > threads here (as I did) if you have a
Stealth. Mitsu and Stealth
rears,
> > are
different.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:05:06
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
>Can anyone backup that Big Reds grab
too hard initially to absolutely
>slam on the brakes?
Rich?
>
Yer not supposed to slam on the brakes nohow. I stand on them
(e.g., exert
maximum force), but I don't slam on 'em. I probably do that
10-20-50-100%
thing, but it only takes a second or so.
Actually, I
have a very bad habit of tapping them before the corner just to
see if I
still have a pedal before I commit. I learned that running with
stock
calipers for two seasons.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:26:31
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:squirting water
I know you are not supposed to slam them on
but Chuck was flat out
telling me to hit them hard and back away (correct me
if I'm wrong,
Chuck). This book and my other two instructors tell me
something like
"Apply them and then add more pressure as you go and do NOT
start at 60
or 80% and get easier."
There are a ton more quotes from
that chapter in the book. Anyone who
has it handy should read it again
to maybe add a different vantage
point.
Page 74, "Going Faster"
To
locate the limit [of braking], you're going to have to push harder
and harder
on the brake pedal until at some point there is too much
pressure and the
tire locks.
Page 76, "Going Faster"
In a threshold braking zone, it
doesn't make sense to start going deeper
before you are certain that you're
using maximum braking. The first
step in a procedure for making up time
on corner approaches is to push
harder and harder on the brake pedal to
identify where the threshold is.
Once you get to the point where you lock up
a tire occasionally, you can
start to move the brake point closer to the
corner.
Do I really have to type the entire Chapter in here?
Certainly people
aren't believing this theory of "stand on the brakes hard
and then ease
off as you approach" that Chuck teaches. I certainly
don't and I will
plainly admit that.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
15:05
Yer not supposed to slam on the brakes nohow. I stand on them
(e.g.,
exert
maximum force), but I don't slam on 'em. I probably do
that
10-20-50-100%
thing, but it only takes a second or so.
Actually, I have a very bad habit of tapping them before the corner
just
to
see if I still have a pedal before I commit. I learned that
running with
stock calipers for two seasons.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:48:27
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Braking Techniques WAS:squirting water
Ok, so I have "the book"
too and read it less than a month ago. The way I
read the passages
people have been referring to:
The "start low and increase pedal pressure
toward lockup" is the way you
safely find your maximum threshold braking
point. If you don't know what
that is for your car/track/weather(it
changes all the time), then you have
to find it. Once you have an idea
of where that point is, you get there as
soon as you can when you start
braking. This "ramp up" in braking pressure
takes 0.5 seconds or so,
maybe even 0.25 seconds. It's a "squeeze" motion,
not a striking
motion, but it's still VERY quick. Look at the graphs of
pedal pressure
in the braking zones. If you were watching a camera on the
driver's
foot, I doubt you could visually tell the difference between the
squeeze and
the strike - it has a lot to do with how stiff your ankle is.
Never did I
read anything that said something about slowly increasing
braking pressure
over a period of more than one second. You lose time off
your lap if
you do that.
The "brake hard and then taper off" thing, I'm guessing, is
trail-braking -
braking after turn-in at less-than-maximum force. OTOH,
it could also be
part of your "experimentation" phase at the beginning of the
day - you
eventually find your threshold braking point and get consistent
with it...
then you move you braking point on the track closer and closer to
the
turn-in point. If you figure out the threshold-braking point
(pedal, not
track) and are braking 100ft too early, then you'll notice that
as you
approach turn-in and it would then be wise to ease off a little early
so as
not to slow down too much.
my 2hp...
-
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:51:30
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:squirting water
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday,
October 23, 2001 2:27 PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
RE:squirting water
>
> I know you are not supposed to slam them on
but Chuck was flat out
> telling me to hit them hard and back away
(correct me if I'm wrong,
> Chuck). This book and my other two
instructors tell me something like
> "Apply them and then add more
pressure as you go and do NOT start at 60
> or 80% and get
easier."
[Willis, Charles E.] Not the book, possibly your
instructors. This
is not the way threshold braking is taught at Porsche
Club DE.
> There are a ton more quotes from that chapter in the
book. Anyone who
> has it handy should read it again to maybe add a
different vantage
> point.
>
>
> Page 74, "Going
Faster"
> To locate the limit [of braking], you're going to have to push
harder
> and harder on the brake pedal until at some point there is too
much
> pressure and the tire locks.
[Willis, Charles E.] This is
to locate it, not routinely to use it.
> Page 76, "Going
Faster"
> In a threshold braking zone, it doesn't make sense to start
going deeper
> before you are certain that you're using maximum
braking. The first
> step in a procedure for making up time on
corner approaches is to push
> harder and harder on the brake pedal to
identify where the threshold is.
> Once you get to the point where you
lock up a tire occasionally, you can
> start to move the brake point
closer to the corner.
[Willis, Charles E.] Again, this is working up to
finding the
appropriate braking zone, like during practice, not
routinely.
> Do I really have to type the entire Chapter in
here? Certainly people
> aren't believing this theory of "stand on
the brakes hard and then ease
> off as you approach" that Chuck
teaches. I certainly don't and I will
> plainly admit that.
>
[Willis, Charles E.] RTFM, Flash! I NEVER said STAND on
the
brakes. I argued with Rich about a year ago about his specific use
of that
term in a race report on Heartland Park. Brake however you
want, but be
prepared to grind down a lot of pads in the process and boil a
lot of brake
fluid.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:57:52
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Braking Techniques WAS:squirting water
some instructors
describe it exactly as you did - SQUEEZING the brakes - I
never said HIT
them, I said GET ON the brakes hard and release slightly. I
also teach
to GET OFF the brakes CLEANLY before turnin - I don't teach trail
braking, I
only do it when I screwup and don't get the car in position in
time.
Skip Barber and the book in question DO teach trail
braking
extensively. No PCA Region that I know of teaches trail braking
because it
is deemed dangerous or at least risky, especially for novice
students.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Gross, Erik [SMTP:erik.gross@intel.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001
3:48 PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject: Team3S: Braking Techniques
WAS:squirting water
>
> --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:59:54
-0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: removing triple-gauge cluster
I just received my Indiglo Gauges,
and understand hot to remove the instrument cluster. But I was wondering
if there was an easier
way to remove the triple-gauges (water,oil,boost) that
doesn't involve removing the entire dash, and center console ?
Anthony
Melillo
anthonymelillo@home.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:05:22
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Braking Techniques
Beats me, Erik. All I know is Chuck did
tell me to push the brake pedal
harder initially and then back off. Who
cares what the terms are
(strike, stand, stamp, pound, press, apply,
etc.). I took it to mean
apply gradually and then release quickly and
get back to throttle. A
graph would ramp up slower than it came down
(since why should you
release the brake slowly in most corners?).
It
is days like this that aggravate the snot out of me. I know there
are
scads of other people out there who are sitting back and not
speaking their
thoughts. Maybe it is just me. But as many people say
the Big
Reds DO grab too hard sometimes (not all the time, not when ABS
fuses are
taken out, not when 275-width rubber is used) but most times
people can lock
up a wheel or two if they want.
I'm bowing out since I am on a losing
battle ground. Everything I say
is either construed as wrong or someone
feels they have to argue with
the points. When my sentences are being
quoted directly from a book and
people question me then it is like slapping
me in the face by saying I
don't know what I am talking about.
I have
learned a lot from seeing what people do and modifying it. I
have
learned a lot from changing my disbelief into trying it and
realizing it
works. That is what the list is for.
Good day and happy
braking.
- --Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:50:35
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: NOS injection effect on compression ratio and combustion chamber
volume.
Compression -ratio- is a value constant to your hardware..is
the
difference in volume at BDC and TDC basically.
The amount of
air/fuel/etc IN the cylinder has nothing to do wth
compression ration, but
the amount and types of material will directly
affect your cylinder pressure
as it ignites.
I agree that a straight CR and how its measured by adding
boost are
different, but you didnt say your mechanic mentioned the
effective
CR...only CR itself.
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Mark Wendlandt
wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> Not to quibble, but, is your
statement really true?
>
> >You increase cylinder pressure,
nothing you do short of different
> >pistons/etc will change
compression ratio
>
> Maybe you should clarify that you are talking
about the static compression
> ratio. Our turbos(under boost
conditions) increase the compression ratio.
> The difference is
that it is dynamic compression vs. static compression
> (bore x
stroke).
>
> The since the turbos are pushing air into the
cylinders, the dynamic
> compression ratio goes up (since there is more
than 1 atmosphere being
> compressed). Can the same be said for
NOS? Since it is usually activated
> at WOT, I would say no because
pressure can't be built up unless the
> throttle plate is closed
(bad!). Thoughts?
>
> Mark Wendlandt
>
'91RT/TT
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:34:59
-0400
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Braking Techniques
You want thoughts? Here they
are:
I think the grand point is, when entering a corner at track speed
and you
have to think about how to apply the brakes for your given situation,
you
(not *you* specific) are what those of us in the motorsports sector
consider
OSB.
That would be "other sports beckon".
- -Scott
Holthausen
(snip)
> It is days like this that aggravate the
snot out of me. I know there
> are scads of other people out there
who are sitting back and not
> speaking their thoughts.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:27:44
-0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: NOS injection effect on compression ratio and combustion chamber
volume.
Geoff,
Not to quibble, but, is your statement really
true?
>You increase cylinder pressure, nothing you do short of
different
>pistons/etc will change compression ratio
Maybe you
should clarify that you are talking about the static compression
ratio. Our turbos(under boost conditions) increase the compression
ratio.
The difference is that it is dynamic compression vs. static
compression
(bore x stroke).
The since the turbos are pushing air
into the cylinders, the dynamic
compression ratio goes up (since there is
more than 1 atmosphere being
compressed). Can the same be said for
NOS? Since it is usually activated
at WOT, I would say no because
pressure can't be built up unless the
throttle plate is closed (bad!).
Thoughts?
Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:00:32
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Braking Techniques
Darren,
I don't claim to speak for others
here (though I hope they feel
similarly), but I'm not *at all* trying to
attack you personally, nor
anything you have said. I may disagree with
a point or two, but that's all
it is - a disagreement. Disagreements
lead to discussions, which generally
lead to learning... and that's
what it's all about, right? I have some
information in my head from
books/people/experience and it leads me to a
conclusion. You have
information in your head (and different amounts/types
as well) and sometimes
come to the same conclusion ... and sometimes not.
We're all learning here,
although some more often than others :-) I often
find myself in the
latter group.
One of the things I really like about this group is that
many of us
are informed about various subjects and are not afraid to "stick
our necks
out" and comment on a subject. That obviously includes
you:-) Yeah,
sometimes discussions can get heated, and sometimes people
take things
personally, but I don't think that is people's intentions.
Please don't see
these discussions as a battle or contest of who can be right
more often -
that's not the point. I like being right (and being able
to prove it) as
much as the next guy, but given the choice, I'd rather have
someone teach me
something. You and others provide valuable info and
experience to the rest
of us, whether people disagree with you or not.
As
far as the "strike, stand, stamp, pound, press, apply, etc."
think, look at
some of my previous comments - I used "stand" several times
to refer to my
braking at the track. Probably the wrong word to use, but it
sounds
cool :-) For me, however, the difference between "strike" and
"squeeze"
makes a big difference in how I visualize applying the brakes, so
that
analogy works for me. For someone else, he may hear the same thing
and
the example is totally lost because the terms are indistinguishable to
him.
On the AutoX subject, the events in your (and Merritt's) neck of
the
woods must be a little different - I can't imagine a course where one
lap
was completely contained in 1/2 acre. The ones I've been to take up
1/2 of
2 airport runways with lap times in the 55-80 second range. I
can
occasionally hit the top of second gear(65-70) and never use first
except
for the first 3 seconds after the starting line. I can see how
our cars
would be at a disadvantage in a 1/2 acre course.
-
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:15:33
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Braking With Reds
I have never heard of or read any suggestion
that easing into the brakes
under high perfomance driving is a preferred
technique. I hit the brakes
hard initially and stay on them making
slight adjustments to suit. Running
big reds at the limit of ABS,
I have never experienced any of the twitchy
tail that Darren keeps refering
to. Common sense should tell you the
fastest lap is taken using max
braking as late as possible. As Keith Code
writes in A Twist of the
Wrist, the goal of any racer is to drive the track
full on or full off.
From initial braking to track out, the tires should be
consistently at the
limit of adheasion. This is easier said than done, but
the goal none
the less.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To:
"'Team3S'" <
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:squirting
water
> Chuck -- Read below an excerpt from a book. What did
Geoff just say?
> He would take info from a book over the advice from
someone's mouth any
> day? In this case so do I. Like I said,
your stock brakes might
> perform differently than my Big Reds. I
can not slam. Front wheel
> lockup and rear end dancing. Maybe
you should remember this before
> instructing someone with huge front
brakes and a heavy car next time.
> <grin>
>
> Skip
Barber's "Going Faster" book
> Page 73
> Chapter 5: Braking and
Entering
> Block 1: Throttle-Brake Transition
> Section: No
Slams
>
> "Here, you're moving your foot from the throttle to the
brake pedal
> *fast*, but the build up of pressure is a hard-squeeze as
opposed to a
> "slam." Slamming on the brakes is a common
mistake. Some drivers hit
> the brake pedal as if driving a nail
with a hammer. This often results
> in instantaneous front wheel
lockup. This lockup occurs because the
> front brakes start slowing
down the front tires before load transfer can
> help deliver extra
grip."
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23,
2001 13:56
>
> I believe it was Skip Barber's "Going Faster" book
that told me to start
> braking at 10% then 20% then 40% then 60%.
I'll have to find it in the
> book. I don't think anyone SLAMS on
the brakes and then eases off of
> them. That is just nuts.
You start at 0 and apply harder, harder, and
> harder and then
release. Now the time going from 0% to 80% braking
> might be 0.25
seconds or it might be over 300 feet but still you start
> easy and get
harder.
>
> The wheel lockup point was at Mid-Ohio.
Backstretch. Braking at the
> 400 foot mark initially until I got
used to what to do. Doing 120 mph
> at that point. Perfectly
straight line. I pushed the pedal to the
> floor and we dove forward
(stock suspension remember) a chirp was heard
> (most likely one of the
front wheels) and the back end got squirrely.
> Hands were perfectly
straight (meaning the front wheels were straight as
> well). Have
that on video for proof.
>
> Can anyone backup that Big Reds grab
too hard initially to absolutely
> slam on the brakes?
Rich?
>
> --Flash!
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23,
2001 13:44
>
> Who taught you to ease onto the brakes? I don't
know any book or high
> performance driving school that teaches that. That
is exactly what is
> taught
> in street driver's education for the
comfort of the passengers.
> Threashold
> braking is to get on the
brakes hard initially APPROACHING wheel lockup,
> not
> CAUSING
wheel lockup. If the back end gets loose when you brake hard
>
initially, then I'd be willing to bet the wheels weren't pointed in a
>
straight line - I can make the rear end get loose all day doing
that.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:24:31
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S: 60k
workshop -a bit OT
All;
5 of us recently meet up at Rich LeRoy's
place to do my 60k. I have a 92 TT
Stealth, Dog Sled Version, produced in Oct
91, 10 years ago. Albeit I only
had a bit over 25 k on the car, many of you
here on the list had admonished
that time was working against me and a timing
belt change was absolutely
required when one went past 10 years, regardless
of how low the miles were
on the vehicle. So, I finally sucked it
up, bought the parts, contacted
Rich and got ready to go into my learn cycle
with him as the 60k guru. At
the same time I had Porterfield pads,
cryo'd rotors and SS lines dropped
shipped to his address, along with Speed
Bleeders, so we could do that long
planned mod as well. Rich then
contacted other PNW'ers who might be
interested in a 60k workshop (translates
as eat donuts, kibitz, eat pizza,
kibitz some more, get greasy, learn how
Team spirit really works, and get to
know each other).
As an aside,
the Ferry trip to Wash State was a search and toss job by your
boys looking
for anything unusual. Talk about scrutiny!! Then it was 4 hours
of driving in
the rain to get to the prefunction beer tasting contest Rich
had set up for
me;-) I think we downed the last sample at around 3 am and
decided
conversation had been exhausted for the night. So we crashed and
started the
next...err..that's the same morning, around 9 ish.
Well the long and
short of it is that all of the old parts that were
replaced (and everything
in the FAQ list was replaced) were
pristine...that's as in having no
discernable difference from the new parts
that replaced them. If I had
to do it again I would not do it until miles
dictated it. Period!
The timing belt had no wear, no stretch. It was as new,
like the rest of the
parts that were taken off and replaced. Yes, photos
were taken.
The
timing belt installation aligned on the accurately placed chalk marks
and
teeth counted to match, was likely the longest task in the
whole
undertaking. I think the 5 of us recounted and double checked
each other
enough times, to use up a good two hours. The car was finally
reassembled
enough by 12.30 in the morning for startup. It worked! Everyone
went home.
The next day the brakes were tackled by myself and Rich alone and
to our
dismay we found the (already posted) discrepancies in Speed Bleeders
for the
rear, and in one of the SS lines on each rear which was not
only shorter,
but which also did not have the proper fittings. Blame it on
the dog sled
version...which also has front mounted lasers as standard
equipment up here
to take care of marauding Polar Bears. Other than the
aforementioned, all
went well.
Those in attendance were Erik, Glen,
Adam, Rich and myself (Darc). Perhaps
they can confirm or
alternately, give their opinion on the need to do or
not do the 60k
before it is required (low mileage, but high years). The
great thing about
such events is the brain storming and double checking
which occurs. The down
side is that it takes twice as long with all the
conversation. But the
latter, IMHO, is also an important part of the
learning curve.
All I need now is to figure what is causing a lower idle
after the
reassembly (I'm hoping the ECU is still learning) and get the
Speed
Bleeders and SS replacement lines on.
Final note: Rich LeRoy is a Team
Member and a long time admin . They simply
do not come any better than
him. Period. I would wax eloquent on his many
merits but the old fart
would never let me forget it.
Best
Darc
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:59:30
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Braking Techniques: Upgraded Front Brakes, But Not
Rears
Along the lines of the braking techniques discussion, I have
question:
For people who are open-tracking, why do most people seem to
only be
concerned with the front brakes?
I understand that the front
brakes do most of the work when stopping hard,
because most of the weight is
on the front of our car and even more is
transferred forward when the car
dives. However, since the rears don't come
off of the ground during a
hard stop, there is *some* braking potential for
the rears. If you put
different brakes on the front, such as those with
larger pads or stickier
pads (higher coefficient of friction), then they are
going to exert more
braking force on the rotor at a given pedal pressure
than stock, thereby
lessening the rear participation further.
Throw some round numbers in for
fun...(these *aren't* accurate, just
arbitrarily chosen to illustrate my
point... or misunderstanding :-)
Stock(coefficient of friction =
0.4):
150lbs of pedal force yields 1200lbs of braking force on each
front rotor
and 600lbs of braking force on each of the rear rotors. In
my pretend
world, this is the maximum force that can be exerted by the rotors
and not
lock up the tires(FRONT and REAR). The total braking force is
3600lbs (1200
+ 1200 + 600 +600).
Modified (better front pads only
with coefficient of friction = 0.6):
100lbs of pedal force yields 1200lbs of
braking force on each front rotor
and 400lbs of braking force on each of the
rear rotors. This is the maximum
force that can be exerted by the
rotors and not lock up the FRONT tires.
The rear tires can withstand 200lbs
(each) more braking force before locking
up. The total braking force is
3200lbs (1200 + 1200 + 400 + 400).
Thus, with upgraded brakes you have
less total braking force available
(although heat dissipation, thermal
degradation, and fade resistance may be
improved). Thus, you will have
to use your brakes with less pedal pressure
over a longer distance to slow
down by the same amount. This would say that
upgrading the rear brakes
is just as important as the fronts in order to be
able to exert the largest
stopping force on the car. What am I missing
here? Have I
simplified things too much?
On my first track day, I used R4S pads on the
front and stock on the rear.
I used them as much as they'd let me all day (3
hours of track time?) and
went through a whole set of front pads. The
rears looked almost untouched.
I know I need better brake cooling and R4 pads
next time(Big Reds if budget
allows), but that difference in wear is
dramatic. I wonder if I was even
using my rear brakes at the
track?
So I'm thinking I should get better rear pads next time as
well. I'll have
R4 pads on the front, but I'm wondering about the
rears. I guess the rears
won't see the temperatures the fronts will, so
would R4S pads be a better
option? Do the rears stay warm enough on the
track to make R4 pads useful?
Thoughts?
- --Erik
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:55:53
-0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
FW: Team3S: Braking With Reds
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Morice, Francis
To: 'bdtrent '
Sent: 10/23/01 6:53 PM
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Braking With Reds
To support Darren's experience with the
twitchy tail under hard
braking; I have experienced this firs hand with
Porterfield rotors, R4S
pads and SS brake lines. Kind of scary the first time
it happened, but
you know your brakes are working.
Francis
96 RT/TT
#49
- -----Original Message----
From: bdtrent
To: Team 3S
Sent:
10/23/01 6:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: Braking With Reds
I have never heard
of or read any suggestion that easing into the brakes
under high perfomance
driving is a preferred technique. I hit the
brakes
hard initially
and stay on them making slight adjustments to suit.
Running
big reds at
the limit of ABS, I have never experienced any of the
twitchy
tail that
Darren keeps refering to. Common sense should tell you the
fastest lap
is taken using max braking as late as possible. As Keith
Code
writes
in A Twist of the Wrist, the goal of any racer is to drive the
track
full
on or full off. From initial braking to track out, the tires
should
be
consistently at the limit of adheasion. This is easier said than
done,
but
the goal none the
less.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:09:07
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Braking Techniques
> On the AutoX subject, the events in
your (and Merritt's) neck of the
>woods must be a little different - I
can't imagine a course where one lap
>was completely contained in 1/2
acre.
Sorry to say, that's the way it is here in Cedar Rapids. SCCA runs
on
postage stamp lots, where it's difficult to get out of 1st gear and
little
shitbox cars rule the roost. The Corvette club is my only salvation
for
autocrosses, because they run on a paved halfmile oval with an
inner
quarter mile oval (I was 5th fastest out of 65 cars last year).
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:32:14
-0400
From: "Shane Swan" <
kaiou_182@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Hi All
Hello,
My name is Shane Swan, and i live in Georgia
near the savannah area. And I
own a 1992 Dodge Stealth ES, Just last
weekend I put a K&N FIPK air intake
on. If anybody knows a lot
about twin turbo or knows what needs to be done
about installing one please
e-mail me, because I would really like to learn.
Thank you,
Shane
Swan
Kaiou_182@hotmail.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#654
***************************************