Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, October 7
2001 Volume 01 : Number
639
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:34:09 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
>> How bad that is I have no idea, but
something is
>> probably out of the end play specs on one of the
shafts.
> Any idea as to whether or not it will effect the
lifespan
> of the tranny Matt? I can live with the rattle. I don't
>
really want to call for a tow in the middle of some rural
> road
somewhere.
Like I said, I don't know how bad it is to have a rattle in
the tranny (or
even if it is bad at all or not), but generally if clearances
are run on the
loose side then parts will wear faster and take more shock
damage during
hard launches.
Will it strand you on the side of the
road? Probably not, but I doubt it'll
get better. At some point
you'll probably be looking at sending the tranny
to Kormex. If it
starts grinding gears or popping out of gear then I'd get
serious about
getting it sent out for a rebuild. If its just a little extra
noise and
it doesn't seem to be doing anything else detrimental then get as
much life
out of it as you can.
BTW, I'm just hazarding a guess at what is causing
it - I'm not saying
"Yeah, it is definitely because someone put the wrong
sized shims in the
tranny" or anything like that... Just suggesting one
candidate in the list
of possible causes.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:04:25
-0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
Sam Shelat wrote:
>
>important, because a person may think that since he/she can run 18psi
on
> >stock turbos, they can do the same with larger turbos, which may
or may not
> >be true, depending on their setup.
> >
>
Why not? Isn't 18psi measured at the plenum? If the turbo can do
this
> continuously, and the engine can handle it, would any turbo set at
18psi
> going to do the same regardless of size as long as their output
temps are
> the same?
You nearly answered your own question.
1st, stock turbos can only hold 18 or
near 18 psi during the low to mid rpm
range and fall off. The turbo is well
outside of its efficiency island
at these boost temps so discharge temps are
very high. Now compare this
to a 15G or bigger and you'll hold 18psi all the
way to redline with cooler
boost. The fuel requirements are obviously greater
in the second
scenario. You'll need to push the stock injectors beyond 100% IDC
in an
attempt to stay rich leading to fuel cut. Heck my web page shows
stock
turbos running into fuel cut attempting 18psi on a cool fall
night.
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/twinturbo/Fuel_Cut.htmJoe
G.
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 18:40:22
-0700
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE: More Power
A nice cam regrind will improve top end by about 10% or so
without low
end sacrifice.
Sam Shelat wrote:
>
>
Our cars really do not have the same top end power as a vette or F-body
up
> top. We need more boost and we need it to last the whole
powerband. I
> would venture a guess that if one simply gets a
filter, electronic boost
> controller, gut the cats, and add a set of 13gs
at 15psi, you will have no
> problem with vettes at all. I believe
the car has enough fuel stock to run
> 13gs at 15psi.
>
>
Sam
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Jeys <
tj@jeys.net>
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Date: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:02 PM
> Subject: Team3S: RE: More
Power
>
> >>Where you live?
> >>
>
>>--Flash!
> >>Pittsburgh, PA
> >
> >Western
Colorado
> >
> >>A rolling start is different. Did he
get the jump on you or did you
> >>start it first? What speed
was this at? I find that when I want to get
> >>a good launch
at highway speed (60 mph) I will drop down to 2nd gear and
> >>get
full power band launch then shift into 3rd I think around 80 mph for
>
>>the 6-speed. This gives a better launch than in 3rd gear unless
you are
> >>already at 65 or 70 mph. Hey, every little bit
helps.
> >
> >We went pretty close to the same time from
80mph. I was in third, had just
> >down shifted from 5th.
He had pulled a car length on me before I had even
> >got into
4th.
> >
> >>If you only want to run 13 psi, then just
remove the restrictor ring from
> >>the stock boost control
solenoid. That should put you close to 13 without
> >>spending
a bunch of money on a boost controller. Since you already have
>
an
> >>aftermarket boost gauge - try that and report back on how
much the boost
> >>increased.
> >
> >Thanks I'll
give it a try and let ya know...
> >
> >>> Is it safe to
say that I am making 330hp with 9lbs boost?
> >
>
>>Yes.
> >
> >Thanks Darc, this was my main source of
curiosity.
> >
> >T.J.
> >1992 3000GT VR-4
>
>tj@jeys.net
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:47:07
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: More Power
> A nice cam regrind will improve top end
by about 10% or so
> without low end sacrifice.
Got any specs you
can share?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:15:55
+0200
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: More Power
> Roger and Jim, back in the stone age, ran AWD
dyno tests to check horsepower
> on these cars and reported back. Adding
modifications like an Apexi BC and
> the K&N FIPK , and
running at 15psi, without any other mods, gave a few
> ponies under
410 to Jim's 94 Stealth. No other mods had been done.
The 406 SAE HP
figure was regrettably inflated due to an erroneous DIN -> SAE conversion
factor.
The correct figure is 367 SAE HP (see my web page for details), which
is more in line with how the
car feels on the road and accelerates relative
to other vehicles.
Nearly half of the 86k miles now on my engine were
racked up with the same setup (signature below).
Performance has been
consistent (except for the boost controller not working at high altitudes)
and
reliability has been perfect. While I would love to increase power
and reduce EGTs on the Autobahn
through turbo and fuel upgrades, I remain too
concerned about incessant tuning and compromised
reliability to make the
leap. I would be surprised if others weren't in the same
boat.
While it is interesting to measure engine behavior and adjust fuel
response accordingly, this is
something I'd rather do ONCE, especially for a
car that is daily transportation (and that my wife
sometimes drives - she has
NO interest in engine tuning!). I don't want to use one setting
for
starting the car, another setting for when it warms up, different
settings for different
temperatures, altitudes, etc. I can see how such
interaction might be necessary for cars tuned to
the absolute limit, but that
is not my objective. Loss of convenience is certainly a factor
when
calculating the threshold of diminishing return.
For years we
have seen discussions on Team3S of VPC, AFC, ARC, MASC, Haltech, etc., but I
remain
unconvinced that any of these solutions meet my requirements.
Matt Jannusch's recent post on fuel
delivery in the "HKS VPC or Split Second
ARC2" thread makes the issue sound straightforward, so I'm
not sure what the
problem is. If this is so hard, I can't imagine what went into development
of the
stock management system. Hell, maybe we should just come up with
a package component upgrade with
an attractive/marketable price-performance
ratio and hire the original Mitsu engineers to come up
with an appropriately
enhanced ECU!?
As for reliability, an engine rebuild is something I would
rather do when things are worn out, not
prematurely broken. That I
can't monitor knock on my hybrid ODB ECU certainly doesn't
boost
confidence. I am very grateful to those on the list who have
sacrificed engines to increase our
knowledge base, but how many highly
modified cars (turbos, fuel and enough boost to make it
worthwhile) have seen
tens of thousands of miles with few reliability problems?
- - --
Jim
Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 09:26:12
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More Power
> Grin. To each their own. My tires cost $150
each ($600 total) and FIPK
> was $120 ($720 total) and a 2-day driving
school was $240 ($960 total).
>
> All that for under $1,000.
Damn do I feel good sometimes.
>
Add to that the cost of another
set of trims to put the tires on, and the
cost of mounting the tires on said
rims.
Oskar
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 10:38:47
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: C5: More Power
C5's are great cars. Win the lottery or
put your ego to rest, you will need
many mods including upgraded turbos
before a first gen TT will run with a
C5. For bang for the buck,
nothing comes close. These grudge matches
regarding other cars with
little or no consideration for the driver whether
straight line or on the
track, are foolish at best. I've had enough open
track experience to
know that just because you passed a Viper with a green
driver by no mean even
remotely indicates that you just bested a Viper.
Sorry if I'm ranting, I like
and respect all performance cars.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
***
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 10:54:17
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More Power
> For years we have seen discussions on Team3S
of VPC, AFC, ARC,
> MASC, Haltech, etc., but I remain unconvinced that any
of these
> solutions meet my requirements. Matt Jannusch's recent
post on
> fuel delivery in the "HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2" thread
makes
> the issue sound straightforward, so I'm not sure what the
>
problem is. If this is so hard, I can't imagine what went into
>
development of the stock management system.
I probably did make it sound
overly simplistic - which it should be at lower
modification levels. I
don't think the ECU is particularly happy with an
airflow input signal much
lower than is actually occuring. The airflow rate
probably interacts
with other ECU outputs (like timing advance) which might
not be the optimal
setup.
Because of this, I'm going to be trying a new fuel/timing
controller that
will also solve (for everything minus "knock sum") the '94-95
datalogging
problem.
> Hell, maybe we should just come up with a
package component
> upgrade with an attractive/marketable
price-performance ratio and
> hire the original Mitsu engineers to come up
with an appropriately
> enhanced ECU!?
Yeah, because Mitsubishi has
been oh-so-helpful in helping us with the
limitations of these cars.
>joke<
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 08:39:33
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: C5: More Power
- ----- Original Message -----
From: bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
> C5's
are great cars. Win the lottery or put your ego to rest, you will
need
> many mods including upgraded turbos before a first gen TT will run
with a
> C5. For bang for the buck, nothing comes close
My
last outing at Willow Springs I pulled over on the front straight to allow
a
Z06 with an experianced driver past so I could tail him ---- he picked
up
about 1 second on me in one 2½ mile lap. Comparing times later his
fastest
lap was about a second better than mine --- 1:39+ to my
1:40+.
I have suspension and brake mods with a filter and stock turbos
with the
boost controller set at 15 PSI --- most of the the Vipers are
running about
the same times as I am. The C5 while a nice car, is not as fast
as mine ---
I'm sure if Michael Schumacher drove the C5 he'd hand me my
head.
Jim
Berry
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 10:57:57
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: C5: More Power
I've had enough open
>track
experience to know that just because you passed a Viper with a
green
>driver by no mean even remotely indicates that you just bested a
Viper.
>Sorry if I'm ranting, I like and respect all performance
cars.
>
I agree with Dave. Most Vipers, when driven properly, are out
of our class.
I passed only one Viper in my entire life, and that was in the
rain (where
I lapped everybody, some twice)
Rich>
***
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:07:06
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: C5s and ZOGs
>My last outing at Willow Springs I pulled
over on the front straight to allow
>a Z06 with an experianced driver past
so I could tail him ---- he picked up
>about 1 second on me in one 2½ mile
lap. <snip> The C5 while a nice car,
is not as fast as mine
---
>
I agree with Jim, too. C5s are no problem, but ZOGs are
something
altogether different.
C5s can pull away from me on straightaways
(I'm still stock engine), but I
catch them under braking and in the twisty
bits. Eventually, when they see
me constantly on their bumper, they let me
by.
I have a ROWG friend, who has a 650 hp Camaro road course car and a
new
Z06. He's put $100,000 in the Camaro (supercharged Lingelfelter
engine,
NOx, 6-pot brakes, full cage, race tires, etc.) It turned 10s in the
1/4
before he converted it to a road course car. The Z06 is still
faster.
Rich/old poop
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:39:49
-0700
From: Andrew Woll <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Car stil won't start, please help.
Are you sure your gas is good?
If so, the spark must explode at the right
time so timing could be
it.
ARE YOU SURE THE PLUG WIRES GO TO THE RIGHT TERMINALS ON THE
DISTRIBUTOR?
WERE THEY OFF FOR ANY REASON? If so, this will cause a no
start every time.
Is there a rotor in the distributor. If you changed
parts it is possible to
forget to put it back in? Just some
thoughts.
Andy
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 21:27:02
+0000
From: "Magnus3315 ." <
black_synn666@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Death of a Car
<html><div
style='background-color:'><DIV>My 16 birthday saturday, my friends and
I took my 1991 3000gt V-R4, to the movies. There was 4 of us. We left the
movies. That car, had undercar lights, interior lights, new paint, new exhaust,
dials redone, and $1600 system. The sprinklers were on at the movie theaters, I
was in 1rst gear around 2400 rpm pulling left and hit some mud. The car skid,
took out 2 lamp posts, then the airbag went off filling the car full of dust. I
barely got out, opent he hatchback, my friends climbed out the back. My arms are
screwed up from the air bag, and whole front is gone. Thy lie the death of my
car. Any idea what I should do now? it's 91? Is it worth getting repaired? Whats
the blue book price? Anyone need a piece or so off my car? I loved my car, and
now it's gone, in a split second, due to
mud.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Amar.</DIV></div><br
clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a
href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:09:17
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: More Power
Actually, Oskar, I lucked out. Good ol' Rich
Merritt let me buy my
extra rims off him for $500 (including the four tires
that were somewhat
useable for AutoX). But I was showing how initially
my car cost nothing
but a filter and was still doing good at tracks.
Then to be safe I
added tires, harness, rollbar, seat, and brakes. I go
may 3-8 seconds
now with them but internally I am still the weakest link and
not the
car. It still has plenty of juice.
I noticed this when
the P-Zero tires that are getting worn down (35k
good miles) and the tread on
the outside shoulders are nearly showing no
tread depth anymore (good amount
in the middle but not on the outside
shoulder). Anyway, a favorite
posted 10 mph hairpin climbing turn of
mine got the rear tires to break
loose, spin since I was in second gear
at a good rev, and I slide the back
out like Smokey and the Bandit
clips. I was none too happy. That
told me I still am not a good enough
driver that when things change I am not
adjusting to them. Shucks.
Just more excuses to get out there and drive
it more. =)
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg-
-----Original Message-----
From: Oskar
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001
10:26 AM
> Grin. To each their own. My tires cost
$150 each ($600 total) and
FIPK
> was $120 ($720 total) and a 2-day
driving school was $240 ($960
total).
>
> All that for under
$1,000. Damn do I feel good sometimes.
>
Add to that the cost
of another set of trims to put the tires on, and
the
cost of mounting the
tires on said rims.
Oskar
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 17:21:41
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Death of a Car
2400rpm in 1st gear did _this_ kinda
damage?
I dunno..I mean, it sucks, but no way you hopped curbs, took out
two
parking lot lights, popped the bag, and totalled the front of the
car.
So's we can all learn what kinda drive NOT to be, what were you
really
doing?
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Magnus3315 . wrote:
> My
16 birthday saturday, my friends and I took my 1991 3000gt V-R4, to
> the
movies. There was 4 of us. We left the movies. That car, had undercar
>
lights, interior lights, new paint, new exhaust, dials redone, and $1600
>
system. The sprinklers were on at the movie theaters, I was in 1rst gear
>
around 2400 rpm pulling left and hit some mud. The car skid, took out 2
>
lamp posts, then the airbag went off filling the car full of dust. I
>
barely got out, opent he hatchback, my friends climbed out the back. My
>
arms are screwed up from the air bag, and whole front is gone. Thy lie
>
the death of my car. Any idea what I should do now? it's 91? Is it worth
>
getting repaired? Whats the blue book price? Anyone need a piece or so
>
off my car? I loved my car, and now it's gone, in a split second, due to
>
mud.
>
> Amar.
Geoff Mohler
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------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#639
***************************************