Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, October 5
2001 Volume 01 : Number
637
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:38:45 -0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S: future
Russ, Curt, et al;
Remember the Shelby Mustangs of 65
through 68 (69 was a Ford buy-out that
used Shelby's name)....well
after they became affordable on the used car
market in the 2nd and 3rd owner
circuit, most had been slam dunked. They
disappeared into junk yards
and were recycled as early Hondas, Datsuns and
Toyotas ;-( Hardly
any of those Shelby beauties remain. Those which do,
are the result
of owners who expressed:
> I thank you but it wont be luck it
will be persistency and borderline
> physcosis that will get me to where I
want to be.
Similarly,
>so consider getting the proper
instrumentation before going far >enough
where you need fuel
control.
This kind of distilled and humble advise, will insure enough of
the 3s's
survive for admirer's of the future to appreciate. Too many
have already
seen hard lives. Many more are already becoming Toyotas and
Hondas. I think
you guys likely mumble wisdom into your morning
coffee ;-))
<grin>
Darc
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 20:28:27
-0500
From: "Turbo Driven" <
turbodrvn@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??
Wow!! I just remembered
how Valuable and INTENSE this list can get!! I
can't believe the
amount of responses I've just read & caught up with!
A special thanks
goes out to each and everyone one of you who contributed &
provided
feedback regarding this subject. I truly appreciate it.
I really
wish I can keep up with this fabulous list on a daily basis!
A sincere
thanks to all,
Ahmed "AL-CrazY" - Soon to install either an HKS VPC
or ARC2 and an Alcohol
injection system.
>From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??
>Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001
14:33:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Russell,
>
>There are
aftermarket stand-alone engine management systems if that
>is what you
want. Every "translation" system, like the ARC2 and VPC,
>will have
limitations.
>
>Perhaps my experience last night at the drag srip
will help clarify
>the operation of the ARC2. My first run had boost at 18
psi and
>severe knock (audible and counts up to 28 in every gear). I
increased
>the "High" knob on the ARC2 two clicks (richer at highest air
flows).
>Next run at same boost had minimal knock (a few counts in 3rd
gear).
>For the third run I increased boost to 21 psi; and severe
knock
>returned. I didn't have time for a 4th run but next week
I'll
>increase ARC2 "High" settings again till I get the mixture right
or
>find the boost/knock limit. Before anyone asks, all times were
over
>14 seconds - testing and tuning remember? :)
>
>The
increase in fuel at higher boost levels is done to reduce knock.
>At some
point the engine will start to loose power (too rich) and an
>alternate
solution is required. I have an ERL Aquamist 2 WI system to
>install this
winter. Remember that the ARC2 and VPC are sensitive to
>air flow, not
RPM, when setting the translation curve. Theoretically,
>the curve should
work for 15 psi or 20 psi because we are at
>different points on the
curve.
>
>It is no inconvenience to adjust the ARC2 knob when I
change boost
>levels (I usually keep it at 18 psi for the street). The
race track
>and the PocketLOGGER let me figure out what I need to set
the
>equipment at. The PL informed me that O2 were 0.84-0.90 v
(depending
>on gear), which is too low for my engine and street gas (91
octane)
>and this altiitude (5500-5700' ASL).
>
>As far as
hard data about all I can record is RPM, knock, IPW, O2,
>and whatever
else the TMO/PL lets me. No AWD dyno in Colorado yet.
>But the drag strip
is a pretty good and safe place to test and tune
>the system. Plus only
$25 for all the runs I can get in.
>
>From your comments I doubt you
will be happy with either the ARC2 or
>VPC. You should check the 3SI
message board for the many discussions
>we have had recently concerning
stand alone systems. The current
>favorite is the Autronic SM2 used by one
our members, Mikael Kenson.
>
>Good luck on your quest and keep us
informed of developments.
>
>Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
>-----
Original Message -----
>From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>To:
"'Roger Gerl'" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>; "'Team
3S'"
><
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Sent:
Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:38 AM
>Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split
Second ARC2 ??
>
><snip>
>I know I am being difficult
but no one has yet showed Dyno runs
>logging A/F for a 3S running pump gas
for their low and high street
>boost settings and the difference in fuel
demands between the two
>with out changing the setting they have on their
ARC2. This is all I
>am looking for...some hard data not just
mathematical
>equations/theories. Roger I just looked your data
logs...
>interesting only one problem no A/F ratios. What I am
trying say
>here is that no one has showed me the logs disproving my
point. Now
>while I understand the fact that people do not want to admit
they
>spent allot of money on an ARC2 and got a good aftermarket
fuel
>control system.... good is just not good enough for me! I am
anal
>and want the certain target ranges maintained at ALL TIMES!
and
>everything I have seen so far shows that the ARC2 is easy to use
but
>far to course for personal
tastes.
><snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:26:29
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: ARC II
>No, we don't have idle problems even with 0.028 gap
and very old coils
>running 20 psi. Amplifiers alone do nothing on our
cars. The combination
>with the correct coils and plugs does the trick.
You may had another
problem
>that has been cured during the proper
install (or really a bad coil)
>
Roger,
Has anyone on the list
even discussed this important find from one of the 3s
members?
Accel coils
(motorcycle) coils when used to replace our stock coils have
been sucessful
in allowing boost over 25psi at stock gap (w/o blowout) with
an ignition
amplifier. I do not see alot of the people on the list
actually
participate on
www.3si.org
except for a few exceptions. There is a real
wealth of knowledge to be
found after you weed through some of the OT posts
and other garbage. A
lot of trend setters IMHO, and even a couple guys
breaking into the 11s on
stock turbos! A few SLs running superchargers
(real ones like
Paxton--not the fake fan things). Just thought I would
remind the
professionals here that there are things to learn from the little
guys that
do their own R&D and sometimes come up with great
ideas.
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 18:48:16
-0700
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
After planning out my mods, I
have decided to get all of my
instrumentation out of the way first so I see
what the car is used to
stock before changing it THEN seeing does. My
question is, why dual A/F
Ratio? I have not looked into the AF gauges much,
but does it take the
reading from the stock O2 sensors? This is going to wind
up being a lot
of gauges if you need 2 AF, 2 EGT, boost, if not more! (fuel
pressure,
engine temp) Anyone make a 6 pod A pillar mount?
:(
What about the smaller light gauges like what comes on the ARC II,
I
could find room for 2 of those and 3 gauges with the new triple
pod
coming out! Can you buy something similar to those? Where? I've been
all
over most every place I can think of on the net . . . Extreme has
an
interesting A/F and Duty cycle meter. But it says A/F range 12.3 to
16?
Is that enough?
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gscat/afgauge.htmMatt
Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem
OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent:
Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:49 PM
To: 'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS
VPC or ARC2 continued
> Hah hah point taken.... like I said I would
rather spend $800
> tuning a car right the first time then $2200 for a new
OEM
> shortblock and then pay the $800 for the proper tuning.
> Which is why I am such a head case when it comes to tuning.
>
FYI I only had my MKIV for 3.5 months and in that time I
> logged
over 70 pulls and something like 20 hrs of dyno time :)
Okay, now here's
something I can totally agree with... I didn't spend
enough time
properly tuning my car and the result was a few broken
pistons and damaged
heads. The rebuild costs are currently up to $3400
for parts and
machining alone and still incrementing. The cost for
proper monitoring
devices is an additional $500 or so, which if I had
spent that money up-front
would've potentially saved my motor (and
allowed me to drive my rather
expensive car this summer instead of it
taking up space in the
garage).
Things I'd consider the bare minimum for
instrumentation:
EGT (preferably dual EGT, with adjustable overtemp
alarm)
A/F Ratio (dual or switchable)
Boost (everyone should really have
that anyway)
Datalogger w/knock support or an MSD Knock Alert or
similar
Using less than that is really dangerous, as I found out.
Everything
seemed okay until the pistons blew apart.
...so consider
getting the proper instrumentation before going far
enough where you need
fuel control.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:53:17
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
At 01:03 PM 10/4/01 , Furman, Russell
wrote:
>I am wondering what inputs are used by the ECM to
determine
>when to engage fuel cut?
It's actually a function of the
Mass air sensor to determine fuel cut, not
the knock sensor. The knock
sensor only adjusts ignition timing according
to how much knock the engine
is experiencing. The signal from the MAS is a
frequency that changes as air
flow increases. When it reaches a
predetermined level, the ECU goes into
fuel cut. I have no idea what that
freq. is. Some testing would be
necassary. There are other signals which
contribute (knock may be one of
them) but the MAS is the #1 source.
>I saw on Roger's web site he hit
fuel cut at like 15.5 psi. That is really
>a low cut threshold and
has me wondering if we can maybe get around this
>little
problem
Different turbos will cause fuel cut at different boost
pressures. As we
all know larger turbos flow more air than smaller turbos at
the same
compressor rpm/boost.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:01:57
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
> My question is, why dual
A/F Ratio? I have not looked into the
> AF gauges much, but does it take
the reading from the stock
> O2 sensors? This is going to wind up being a
lot of gauges if
> you need 2 AF, 2 EGT, boost, if not more! (fuel
pressure,
> engine temp) Anyone make a 6 pod A pillar mount?
:(
Dual A/F ratio might help to make sure that your cruising
throttle
calibration puts you in closed-loop on both banks. Its not
necessary, but
it might be helpful at some point where the car seems to be
running rich on
one bank and not the other (the ECU can trim seperately per
bank of 3
cylinders).
For EGT there are some companies that can make
you a dual-EGT display guage
in one unit. Westach can make a dual
analog version in the standard gauge
pod size.
I think SPA Technique
gauges makes a Boost/Fuel Pressure one which has two
LCD readouts on the same
regular sized gauge with peak hold and warning.
That brings you down to 2
"gauges" plus whatever A/F you want to use if you
desire that.
http://www.westach.com/products.htm#AUTOMOTIVE
(They'll make custom gauges if you desire)
http://www.spatechnique.com/index3.html-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:09:21
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Sears Point lodging --- October 27/28
Racer folk
Kurt Zobel and I
just signed up for the Travel Lodge in Novato [ 6 mi from track].
The phone
number is 415-892-7500 or 800-578-7878 --- Prices are $59 plus tax
for me,
being an old coot I have an ARP card or $69 plus tax for you
young
whipper-snappers.
Geoff is staying at the Inn Marin which is
more expensive but is listed as
charming, like Geoff, as opposed to the
travel lodge, which is cheap, like
me.
Jim Berry
Sign up
early avoid the rush
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 00:19:19
EDT
From:
Klusmanp@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
I've got a rattling tranny on my '91 VR4. It
is NOT the throwout bearing as I
just had the clutch (and throwout bearing)
replaced a year ago and it had no
effect. I put in a stock Mitsu POS
throwout bearing and it squeeks worse than
the previous one did. It is a
distinct squeeking sound different from the
rattling tranny. The squeeking
and rattling appear at different positions as
the clutch pedal is depressed.
The car drives beautifully, it is just
annoying at a stoplight if I take my
foot off the clutch pedal. Incidentally,
the tranny was installed new in the
car about 1996 after synchro failure of
the first tranny.
Paul
Klusman
In a message dated 10/4/01 4:59:41 PM EST,
melvin@gamewood.net
writes:
<< I would say it's the throwout bearing,had it on my R/T +
T/T.
RICK
Mark Elkin wrote:
>
Count me in on the rattling tranny......when my clutch pedal is released
and
> the tranny is not in gear, it rattles just like my Yamaha
tranny does.
>
> Mark
> '96
VR-4
> '97 YZF 600R
> >>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:07:43
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
> Hey Mark, and anyone else with a
rattling tranny do you have a Light
weight
> fly wheel? I really don't
care who makes it more of a yes or no type of
> thing.
Mine
has made rattling noises at idle ever since the O S Giken clutch
/
flywheel was fitted.
Steve
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 11:35:17
+0200 (MEST)
From: <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
> It's actually a function of the
Mass air sensor to determine fuel cut, not
> the knock sensor. The knock
sensor only adjusts ignition timing according
> to how much knock the
engine is experiencing.
No, the knock sensor does not adjust anything !
It is a sensor and the ECU does the job.
The airflow signal is not the
only signal as the determination of the fuel map value is in funtion with the
barometric pressure, rpm, temperature and air flow signal. Not ONLY one signal
!
If knock sum is becomming unhealthy high, the ECU initiates fuel cut
and sets the ignition and fuel map to the emergency mode. This does allow you to
limp home while rpm is limited to 3000rpm. Thsi mode goes away if no more knock
is detected and the ignition switched off once. But a code stays
set.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:43:40
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
>It's actually a function of the Mass
air sensor to determine fuel
cut, not
>the knock sensor. The knock
sensor only adjusts ignition timing
according
>to how much knock the
engine is experiencing. The signal from the
MAS is a
>frequency that
changes as air flow increases. When it reaches a
>predetermined level,
the ECU goes into fuel cut. I have no idea
what that
>freq. is. Some
testing would be necessary. There are other signals
which
>contribute (knock may be one of them) but
the MAS is the #1 source
Ok then maybe my idea will still work? I
was thinking of using a voltage
clamp (greddy BCC) it allow the signal to
pass unmolested until it reaches
the peak you set, at which point it clamps
down the voltage and allows
nothing more than your set peak to pass to the
ECU. MKIV's use to prevent
fuel cut b/c they use a MAP sensor to
determine fuel cut.
>Different turbos will cause fuel cut at different
boost pressures.
As we
>all know larger turbos flow more air than
smaller turbos at the
same
>compressor rpm/boost.
I know this
basically I need to find out from someone what the
voltage is that he ECU
needs to see from the MAS to engage fuel cut and set
the BCC slightly less
than that threshold.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:38:06
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
> Ok then maybe my idea will still
work? I was thinking of
> using a voltage clamp (greddy BCC) it
allow the signal to
> pass unmolested until it reaches the peak you set,
at which
> point it clamps down the voltage and allows nothing
more
> than your set peak to pass to the ECU. MKIV's use to
prevent
> fuel cut b/c they use a MAP sensor to determine fuel
cut.
You can't use a "voltage clamp" - you need a "frequency clamp" since
the
Karman sensor's output is a frequency pulse output instead of a
voltage
output.
> I know this basically I need to find out from
someone what the
> voltage is that he ECU needs to see from the MAS to
engage fuel
> cut and set the BCC slightly less than that threshold.
See above. If I remember right, the max frequency from the MAF is
something
like 3600hz, but I'd research that rather than taking my word for
it.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 15:41:25
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
>Ok then maybe my idea will still
work? I was thinking of using a voltage
>clamp (greddy BCC) it allow
the signal to pass unmolested until it reaches
>the peak you set, at which
point it clamps down the voltage and allows
>nothing more than your set
peak to pass to the ECU. MKIV's use to prevent
>fuel cut b/c they
use a MAP sensor to determine fuel cut.
No,no ! We do not have Supras and
fuel cut is on our cars because we do
have smaller injectors than MKIV and
fuel cut occurs when the injectors are
way beyond their limit. At 15psi they
are maxed out at 100% IDC.. You have
to forget what worked on the JZA80 as
our cars are way different
!!
> I know this
basically I need to find out from someone what the
>voltage is that he ECU
needs to see from the MAS to engage fuel cut and set
>the BCC slightly
less than that threshold.
If you you do this then you have to save 4000$
for your rebuild ! Please
note that no fuel-cut defencer works on our car as
fuel cut is indicating a
lack of fuel or internal problem
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 06:46:59
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
The other reason to run two
A/F monitors is for warning. One injector
can go bad (too much or too little
fuel)- two A/F meters can tell you
which bank. Similar reason for using two
EGT gauges. Just think of
our engine as two 1.5L 3-cylinder engines.
I
have the ARC2 controller and both ARM1 A/F meters in the glovebox.
There is
still room in the glovebox for CDs, notebook, PocketLOGGER,
and other
conveniences. The ARM1 is an excellent A/F meter ($139
direct from
SplitSecond). I find the "dial" A/F meters with either a
needle or a light
that "spins" back and forth to be annoying and not
that usable (moves way too
fast for my old eyes). The ARM1s closely
mimmick what I see on the loggers
(well the rear one, which is the
only one logged). They should as they are
spliced into the wires at
the ECM from the stock O2 sensors.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius3/j3-2-arm1s.htmTwo
EGT guages and the fuel pressure gauge are on the A-Pillar.
Peak-hold-warn
boost gauge is on the steering column.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-apillar.htmEVC
IV is in the floor console storage box.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-evc_si.htmI'm
not sure where I'll put the Aquamist WI boxes. I haven't messed
with the
three guages in the center of the dash, but that is also a
candidate location
for gauges.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius7/j7-2-combogauges.htmAs
others have suggested, you can get dual gauges in one unit to
save
space.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
"'BlackLight'" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>; "'Team
3S'"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2
continued
> My question is, why dual A/F Ratio? I have not looked into
the
> AF gauges much, but does it take the reading from the stock
> O2 sensors? This is going to wind up being a lot of gauges if
>
you need 2 AF, 2 EGT, boost, if not more! (fuel pressure,
> engine temp)
Anyone make a 6 pod A pillar mount? :(
Dual A/F ratio might help to
make sure that your cruising throttle
calibration puts you in closed-loop on
both banks. Its not
necessary, but it might be helpful at some point
where the car seems
to be running rich on one bank and not the other (the ECU
can trim
seperately per bank of 3
cylinders).
<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:55:43
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
Ok thanks Matt, I will need to do more
research on this. My next question
is, I have the CD repair manual is
this info in their or some where else? I
would like to do a little home
study and maybe come up with something that
would work. Roger I
just saw your post, what the hel was Mitsu thinking
when they came up with
the fuel system and air metering set up for this car?
This is getting very
frustrating to go anything beyond BPU is gonna take
some creativity and money
(my money is a terrible thing to waste) Well
thanks for data Roger.... looks
like I am going to have to take all my
knowledge from the JZA80 and shelve it
for the interim.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jannusch,
Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001
9:38 AM
> To: Furman, Russell; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel
Cut Thoughts
>
> You can't use a "voltage clamp" - you need a
"frequency clamp" since the
> Karman sensor's output is a frequency pulse
output instead of a voltage
> output.
>
> See above. If
I remember right, the max frequency from the MAF is
> something
>
like 3600hz, but I'd research that rather than taking my word for it.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:08:03
-0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Cusco camber adjustment plates
Has anyone successfully installed
the Cusco camber plates on their car? The
bushings that came with my
set are about 5/8" too tall. I've taken them to
three auto machine
shops and they all said they couldn't machine them down
since the bushing is
too small to "hold" correctly. I'll try another shop
tomorrow and see
if it would be easier/cheaper to fabricate new bushings of
the correct
height.
Thanks,
Ken
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:08:48
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
FW: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jeff Lucius [SMTP:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 9:47 AM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
>
> I'm not
sure where I'll put the Aquamist WI boxes. I haven't messed
> with the
three guages in the center of the dash, but that is also a
> candidate
location for gauges.
>
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius7/j7-2-combogauges.htm>
> As others have suggested, you can get dual gauges in one unit to
save
> space.
>
> Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
>
>
> Hey Jeff/list will 60mm gauges fit in the stock center dash
location and
> look presentable? I know the three are one piece and
that if I want to
> replace them I have to replace all three. Also the
Dual guage idea for EGT
> would be great but has anyone seen dual EGT with
a white face and black
> rim edge? The CD changer, VPC, and WI controls,
and Turbo Timer will all
> be in the glovebox. The center console will
have the SFC along with the
> Power Meter i-D. Now any suggestions for
mounting location of the AVC-R
> (later it will be a SBCi-D)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:15:04
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ARC II
>Has anyone on the list even discussed this
important find from one of the 3s
>members?
I'm in the installation
process of them as - unfortunately - nobody has ana
data on this
subject.
>Accel coils (motorcycle) coils when used to replace our
stock coils have
>been sucessful in allowing boost over 25psi at stock gap
(w/o blowout) with
>an ignition amplifier.
Well, we don't know if
there is still some knock around. Also you can
prevent spark blowout by
simply using coppers 2 range colder.
> I do not see alot
of the people on the list actually
>participate on
www.3si.org except for a few
exceptions. There is a real
>wealth of knowledge to be found after
you weed through some of the OT posts
>and other garbage.
Well, the
way they work is "let's try" and this not always does it's job
because I go
the way first think, then plan, then do, then measure and put
down the
results. Their results tend to produce not really correct findings
but it is
good to show a direction.
> A lot of trend setters IMHO,
and even a couple guys
>breaking into the 11s on stock turbos!
I
definitely did too bit only once with 1.36 bars. A lot of then actually
do a
rebuild are have it just done !
> A few SLs running
superchargers
>(real ones like Paxton--not the fake fan things).
No
Paxton, it's a Vortech and it is only one prototype car. But the idea is
pretty good :)
> Just thought I would
>remind
the professionals here that there are things to learn from the
little
>guys that do their own R&D and sometimes come up with great
ideas.
I'm regulary on the board too but really have to select the
messages as a
high percentage is not of much use.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:14:34
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
At 02:35 AM 10/5/01 ,
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch wrote:
>
> It's actually a function of the Mass air sensor to determine fuel cut,
not
> > the knock sensor. The knock sensor only adjusts ignition timing
according
> > to how much knock the engine is
experiencing.
>
>.
>
>The airflow signal is not the only
signal as the determination of the fuel
>map value is in funtion with the
barometric pressure, rpm, temperature and
>air flow signal. Not ONLY one
signal !
I only said that the MAS was the major contributing signal, and
that other
signals were involved too.
Fuel cut and limp home mode are 2
different things. If you ever experienced
fuel cut, you would know it. It's
an absolutely horrible feeling, like
someone planted a bomb in the engine,
and is brief. Once the system goes
OUT of fuel cut, the vehicle drives
normal again.
Russell, the service manual does NOT tell you what the
frequency is. You
will have to hook up an Oscope, or freq. counter to see
what the signal
looks like.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:21:05
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
>> As we all know larger turbos flow
more air than smaller
>> turbos at the same compressor
rpm/boost.
REALLY? Or perhaps I misunderstand. Let me re-phrase what you
meant
to say: larger turbos will flow more air into the engine than
smaller
ones at the same engine RPM and boost level. Correct? How does
this
happen?
One correction: fuel cut is initiated by the ECM after
comparing
airflow and *RPM*. If it thinks too much air is flowing at a
certain
RPM then it cuts fuel. There is not an absolute airflow value
nor
boost value. The use of airflow translation devices, like the ARC2
and
VPC, reduce the chances for fuel cut when larger than stock
injectors are
used becuase the airflow signal is reduced.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Wayne" <
whietala@prodigy.net>
To: "'Team
3S'" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut
Thoughts
Different turbos will cause fuel cut at different boost
pressures. As
we all know larger turbos flow more air than smaller turbos at
the
same compressor rpm/boost.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:29:38
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
>The other reason to run
two A/F monitors is for warning. One injector
>can go bad (too much or too
little fuel)- two A/F meters can tell you
>which bank. Similar reason for
using two EGT gauges. Just think of
>our engine as two 1.5L 3-cylinder
engines.
I highly agree with Jeff. I made a switch for the ARM1 so I can
monitor the
one I'm interested in.
>The ARM1 is an excellent A/F
meter ($139
>direct from SplitSecond).
The ARM1 is better than I
originally thought because it is also the only AF
meter that shows in 0.1V
increments but in between adjusts the light level
of the LED in 0.02V steps.
Therefore 0.92V is represented by the 1st blue
LED and the second blue
dimmed. This works pretty well for me now.
>I'm not sure where I'll
put the Aquamist WI boxes. I haven't messed
>with the three guages in the
center of the dash, but that is also a
>candidate location for
gauges.
>http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius7/j7-2-combogauges.htm
Jeff,
what do you mean by Aquamist boxes ? Do you use any gauges for the
water
pressure on the water manifold ? I got the "ok" from AutoMeter that
their
fuel pressure sensor works well with water as it is stainless
steel.
>As others have suggested, you can get dual gauges in one unit
to save
>space.
Or do it like Luis Miguel from Spain ... he mounted
dual A-pillar mounts on
both side of the dash :) Also the ARM1 is mounted on
thw A-pillar.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:36:27
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
>>The airflow signal is not the
only signal as the determination of the
>>fuel map value is in funtion
with the barometric pressure, rpm,
>>temperature and air flow signal.
Not ONLY one signal !
>
>I only said that the MAS was the major
contributing signal, and that other
>signals were involved
too.
>Fuel cut and limp home mode are 2 different things.
Fuel cut
is initiated too on problems and comes on beforehand the emergency
maps are
locked in !
> If you ever experienced fuel cut, you would know
it.
Dont't ask me that and read my pages I wrote some years
ago.
> It's an absolutely horrible feeling, like someone planted
a bomb in the
> engine, and is brief. Once the system goes OUT of fuel
cut, the vehicle
> drives normal again.
Depends on the cause of
fuel cut. Seems like you have this experience from
other cars and not only
ours. If fuel cut is initiated due to the fuel
value jumped off the map then
you should be able to drive normally after
that. But if knock was the
problem and fuel cut acted as prevention against
more damage, then your in
emergency mode. happend to me 2 out of 7 times.
We drive 3000GT and not
Supras or RX7 ... we have to fight against other
enemies and our cars act
somewhat different than others ;-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:42:54
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
> >> As we all know larger turbos
flow more air than smaller
> >> turbos at the same compressor
rpm/boost.
>
>REALLY? Or perhaps I misunderstand. Let me re-phrase
what you meant
>to say: larger turbos will flow more air into the engine
than smaller
>ones at the same engine RPM and boost level. Correct? How
does this
>happen?
Jeff, he speaks of compressor rpm/boost but it
is not important.
>One correction: fuel cut is initiated by the ECM
after comparing
>airflow and *RPM*. If it thinks too much air is flowing
at a certain
>RPM then it cuts fuel. There is not an absolute airflow
value nor
>boost value. The use of airflow translation devices, like the
ARC2
>and VPC, reduce the chances for fuel cut when larger than
stock
>injectors are used becuase the airflow signal is reduced.
I
see, Jeff can much better explain the things than I can do :)) I can
only double what already said.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:03:52
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
>>I have the CD repair manual is this
info in their or some where
else?
Our ECMs are very similar to the
ones used in DSM cars. This is
stated in the STIM.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-stim.htmRefer
to the the Laser/Talon TIM (aka "DSM Tech Manual") available
from Vinny Singh
on the CD repair manual.
http://www.manualcd.com/Another
source of info is of course the experience of owners of 3S
and DSM cars. On
the DSM scene you might check out these.
http://members.home.net/costall/ECUprimer/
(see fuel cut)
http://www.tmo.com/ (Todd
Day KNOWS the EDM inside and out)
http://www.vfaq.com/FAQlocator.html
(and similar sites)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To:
"'Jannusch, Matt'" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>;
"'Team 3S'"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, October 05, 2001 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut
Thoughts
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:11:24
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
If our MAS is anything like DSM MAS then
max frequency is about
2200-2400 Hz. The loggers only show up to about 1600
Hz, but the MAS
sends higher and ECM reads higher.
Correct, the
voltage signal from the MAS is a square wave. Number of
square waves per
second is the frequency. Sorry, I don't know if it
is whole or half wave. The
DSM Tech Manual or one of the Chrysler
Diagnostic Manuals I have have a
picture of this and the voltage
range. Look for a Tech page from me eventualy
on our Karman MAS.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
"'Furman, Russell'" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>; "'Team
3S'"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, October 05, 2001 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel Cut
Thoughts
> Ok then maybe my idea will still work? I was thinking
of
> using a voltage clamp (greddy BCC) it allow the signal to
>
pass unmolested until it reaches the peak you set, at which
> point it
clamps down the voltage and allows nothing more
> than your set peak to
pass to the ECU. MKIV's use to prevent
> fuel cut b/c they use a MAP
sensor to determine fuel cut.
You can't use a "voltage clamp" - you need
a "frequency clamp" since
the Karman sensor's output is a frequency pulse
output instead of a
voltage output.
> I know this basically I need
to find out from someone what the
> voltage is that he ECU needs to see
from the MAS to engage fuel
> cut and set the BCC slightly less than that
threshold.
See above. If I remember right, the max frequency from
the MAF is
something like 3600hz, but I'd research that rather than taking
my
word for it.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:36:06
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??
Hi Jeff,
To turn 14+
sec with a boost of 18 & 21 psi you must
have coasted most of the
way.
I was running stock with only a manual boost
controller to
turn 12.4sec and got beat by Jack T who
ran an 11something.
Be of good
cheer,
John
- --- Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Russell,translation" system, like
> the ARC2 and VPC,>
will have limitations.
>
> Perhaps my experience last night at the
drag srip
> will help clarify the operation of the ARC2. My
first run
had boost at
> 18 psi and sevnimal knock (a few counts in
3rd
gear).
> For the third run I increased boost to 21 psi;
and
>
> find the boost/knock limit. Before anyone asks, all
>
times were over
> 14 seconds - testing and tuning remember? :)
>
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:45:54
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rattling gearbox
Yup - put me down for a rattling gearbox in
neutral on start up. The noise
goes away when the clutch is depressed. It
also goes away when the car warms
up.
I changed trans fluid from
regular gear oil to red line MTL and the noise
went entirely away. That was
about 100 miles ago. The noise is now coming
back but so far it is
significantly less than it was with regular gear oil.
Personally I think it
is a throw out bearing problem. The car has 112k on it
with a stock clutch so
some clutch bearing problems do not seem unexpected
at this point. The red
line made shifting a lot easier and less clunky but
the shifting mechanism
does not really allow for fast shifts, nor can it be
described as smooth. It
feels like the shifter in my old Chrysler Le Baron.
For a near race car,
frankly the trans and the shifter suck. On the plus
side, I love the way my
TT AWD corners flat out with no lean, or yaw. The
power is great, and
control is superb. It costs a hell of a lot less than a
Ferrari and is just
as much fun to drive.
Andy
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:29:00
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
ARC II
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Sam
wrote:
> > I do not see alot of the people on the list
actually
> >participate on
www.3si.org except for a few
exceptions. There is a real
> >wealth of knowledge to be found
after you weed through some of the OT posts
> >and other
garbage.
Roger wrote:
> Well, the way they work is "let's
try" and this not always does it's job
> because I go the way first
think, then plan, then do, then measure and put
> down the results. Their
results tend to produce not really correct findings
> but it is good to
show a direction.
Roger
It should be noted here that a many of the
worlds great inventions were made by
armatures that weren't aware that it
couldn't be done. While I agree some of the
stuff has been given little
thought, it's pretty easy to over analyze an idea and throw
out a perfectly
good concept.
I do agree that too many assume that what they did was
correct without really
knowing what caused the end result.
I suppose
that next you'll be telling me that the perpetual motion machine I
invented
is fake ;-)
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:04:20
-0700
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
Where did you get the ARM1
meters from? Those are pretty much exactly
what I want to get. And how much
were they?
Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales
Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Friday,
October 05, 2001 6:47 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
The other reason to run two A/F
monitors is for warning. One injector
can go bad (too much or too little
fuel)- two A/F meters can tell you
which bank. Similar reason for using two
EGT gauges. Just think of our
engine as two 1.5L 3-cylinder engines.
I
have the ARC2 controller and both ARM1 A/F meters in the glovebox.
There is
still room in the glovebox for CDs, notebook, PocketLOGGER, and
other
conveniences. The ARM1 is an excellent A/F meter ($139 direct
from
SplitSecond). I find the "dial" A/F meters with either a needle or
a
light that "spins" back and forth to be annoying and not that
usable
(moves way too fast for my old eyes). The ARM1s closely mimmick what
I
see on the loggers (well the rear one, which is the only one
logged).
They should as they are spliced into the wires at the ECM from the
stock
O2 sensors.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius3/j3-2-arm1s.htmTwo
EGT guages and the fuel pressure gauge are on the A-Pillar.
Peak-hold-warn
boost gauge is on the steering column.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-apillar.htmEVC
IV is in the floor console storage box.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-evc_si.htmI'm
not sure where I'll put the Aquamist WI boxes. I haven't messed with
the
three guages in the center of the dash, but that is also a candidate
location
for gauges.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius7/j7-2-combogauges.htmAs
others have suggested, you can get dual gauges in one unit to
save
space.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
"'BlackLight'" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>; "'Team
3S'"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2
continued
> My question is, why dual A/F Ratio? I have not looked into
the
> AF gauges much, but does it take the reading from the stock
>
O2 sensors? This is going to wind up being a lot of gauges if
> you need
2 AF, 2 EGT, boost, if not more! (fuel pressure,
> engine temp) Anyone
make a 6 pod A pillar mount? :(
Dual A/F ratio might help to make
sure that your cruising throttle
calibration puts you in closed-loop on both
banks. Its not necessary,
but it might be helpful at some point where
the car seems to be running
rich on one bank and not the other (the ECU can
trim seperately per bank
of 3 cylinders). <snip>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:08:22
-0700
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
Now I feel stupid, Please
disregard the last message . . . :( [just
woke up . .
.]
"($139 direct from SplitSecond)"
Matt Nelson
1994 RT
TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone
503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of BlackLight
Sent: Friday,
October 05, 2001 9:04 AM
To: 'Jeff Lucius';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2 continued
Where did you get the ARM1
meters from? Those are pretty much exactly
what I want to get. And how much
were they?
Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:18:27
-0400
From: MIHAI RAICU <
aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Rattling gearbox
My brother's 15K replaced transmission from his 94 TT
started
rattling and klonking one day at idle. He took his car to
the dealer and they replaced his transmission again under the
12
months/1 year warranty rule. It had been less than 1 year.
- -MIHAI
RAICU-
95 Red VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 11:26:15
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ARC II
>I suppose that next you'll be telling me that the
perpetual motion machine I
>invented is fake
;-)
>
Hey!
I invented that one!
That's the one where you
put peanut butter on a cat's back.
The theory is, whenever you drop a PB
sandwich, it always lands PB down on
the floor.
When you drop a cat, it
always lands on its feet.
If you drop a cat with PB on its back, it hangs
there, a foot off the
ground, slowly revolving
forever.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 11:31:09
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: New T1 is finally in..
I will have to re-address the servers
tonight for the new line, and this
will cause a lapse in Email
traffic.
Any Email you send will be queued up and delivered the moment it
all works
out.
Now, you -may- end up with old DNS information for up
to 24hrs after the
change, but currently my TTLs are set at 10 minutes..so it
shouldnt cause
most prople any issues.
Email and WWW services will be
spotty as the new DNS information works its
way thru the internet.
We
plan to do this work this evening.
- ---
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:34:20
EDT
From:
NETM1NDER@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Vernon
NJ
Is anyone going to Mountain Creek Vernon, NJ this
Saturday?
Chris 95VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#637
***************************************