Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, September 27 2001 Volume 01 :
Number
629
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:52:07 -0400
From: "Michael Bulaon" <
profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Intake pressure testing & BOV
Funny... I just pressure
tested my car last weekend using your site and
found the same thing. I too
had a leak from the angled nipple on the
Greddy Type-S BOV. But then I
thought maybe during boost, because the
angled nipple is part of the intake
system before the turbos, it's
probably seeing negative pressure or vacuum
instead of positive
pressure and possibly/maybe only sees positive pressure
when the BOV
opens and vents.
Also I've seen the Greddy Type S BOV
used on many other cars and have
never seen anything hooked up to that
nipple.
I could be wrong, but I think even the Japanese instructions it
came
with, the diagrams do not show anything hooked up to it.
If the
angled nipple does see positive pressure from the vented
pressure when the
BOV opens,,, maybe it's purpose is to change the note
or sound of the vented
pressure.
It seems the general design of the of the Greddy Type-S BOV is
very
similar to the stock BOV, however the Greddy has sort of a high pitch
whistle when it vents and the stock BOV just sounds like vented
air.
My .02, hope it helps.
Michael Bulaon
> So what is
that nipple for again? Is there a reason I shouldn't seal
> it off? Is it
leaking only because there is pressure on the outlet
> side of the BOV
(normally the outlet side is under low pressure - the
> intake
hose)?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:51:43
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Physics Question for the racers?
Yes it is possible to do the
camber as you suggest but it is highly NOT
recommended. Have you ever
seen an Outlaw dirt car drive straight down the
straight? Didn't think
so. The right side tires are so huge compared to
the left that they
have to steer hard to the right just to go straight. In
fact, that is
why many times they prefer to slide sideways down much of a
front and back
stretch (on the 1/4- and 3/8-mile tracks though and not a
NASCAR
track).
But if you do that to your car (which in the corners is not a
terribly long
stretch of pavement) then you will be fighting it and losing
considerable
top speed down the straight. I think most straights on
these circle tracks
are in the neighborhood of 0.5 mile - 1.0 mile (close
enough). Imagine
trying to drive while steering to the right by 30
degrees for 0.75 of a mile
doing 110 mph. No thank you.
And on
the dirt track guys they make the difference between the
circumference of the
right side tire (in the rear) and the left side tire
(in the rear) larger to
turn tighter or smaller to turn less. The driver
holds the steering
wheel straight and automatically turns circles round the
track. Tire
pressure too sometimes but mostly just the difference in tire
circumference
is all that is needed.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and "Pit Crew" for a
Limited Late Model dirt track car
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:03:03
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Speed Bleeders
I have used SB's on 4 brake systems, and they are
a one-man bleeding setup.
The spring and ball bearing inside each bleeder
screw acts as a one-way
check valve. When you press down on the brake
pedal, it forces out old
fluid, and then you release the brake pedal, the
ball bearing closes the
opening, thus keeping air from reentering the caliper
from the outside. I
find that 3 to 5 pumps per corner before and after
each track event does the
trick for me.
andie w lin
vp marketing
and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.comtel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
::-----Original Message-----
::From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Darren Schilberg
::Sent:
Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:45 PM
::To: Team3S
::Subject: RE: Team3S:
Speed Bleeders
::
::Not sure who posted but they are $7 each from Speed
Bleeder so
::not too much
::money really (the price of a good quart of
oil).
::
::No you can not use one per wheel. It is not a "one man
brake
::bleeding kit"
::but a screw that replaces the OEM one. If
you unscrew it then
::you will let
::air back into the system you just
purged air out of.
::
::No you do not need 4 but it is nice. The
fronts need bled 8
::times more than
::the rear (an arbitrary number but
not far off). But the price of another
::two is not much and the cost
of shipping the second package is quite
::expensive.
::
::I can have
pictures on my website to show people what they look like.
::Really it just
looks like the bleed screw to the normal person. All the
::fancy
gadgetry (which consists of a spring and a ball bearing) are on
the
::inside.
::
::--Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:03:17
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
> No you can not use one per wheel.
It is not a "one man brake
> bleeding kit" but a screw that replaces the
OEM one. If you
> unscrew it then you will let air back into the
system you
> just purged air out of.
I thought that's exactly what
the Speedbleeders are for. What's the point
if they don't allow
single-person bleeding? The stock ones are just as good
if that's the
case.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:21:13
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
Yep, theyve proved immensely invaluable to us
with our 5 vehicles that
commonly see the race track, or heavy-duty braking
over extended periods
of time (tow vehicle). Its taken the job from
2people and 20 minutes, to
1 person and about 5 minutes to do the whole
car.
Trick: Save old oil bottles. Run a vacum line from the
end of the
bleeders down into the bottle...pump the pedal 3-5 times and seal
it all
back up. Prevents spills and is a handy way to store the old
fluid until
you recycle it.
> I have used SB's on 4 brake systems,
and they are a one-man bleeding
> setup. The spring and ball bearing
inside each bleeder screw acts as a
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just
ask! *
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:25:07
-0400
From: "
rjmsmail@swbell.net"
<
rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject:
Team3S: David Gowlowski's website on 2G shifter moving around in a
gear?
Can anyone help me find David Gowlowski's email or website at
http://www.mindspring.com/~f15pilot/eagle_tranny.htmlwhich
appears to be the hyperlink when I click on the last "here"
from the link
http://members.home.com/costall/1000Q/answers-problems.htm#myshiftermoves
as I search the archives for more
info on this shifter popping out of gear
for the 5speed non-turbo?
The link can no longer be found.
2.)
Will I need a gasket too for the trans cover as well as the sealer?
I am
wondering if I am on a wild goose chase being my stick pops out only in
4th
gear and it might be a worn bearing or somethin I can't fix, but I
guess a
visual inspection never hurts.
Thanks.
Bob
94 3000gt SL : refer to
"Team3S: Shifter pops out of 4th gear: 1994 3000gt SL
post"
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:28:23
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Speed Bleeders
For 99% of the world the SpeedBleeder is a
one-person operation. But I have
never found that flexible (cheap)
tubing to stay its shape after contacting
the bleeder screw of a several
hundred degree F caliper. Even at 150-200
degrees the tube relaxes and
starts to leak fluid. Yes, even with a twistie
tie zipped around it
there is not seal. I have to keep cutting the end off
the tube as it
splits open to make sure it seats properly. Maybe I need a
Stainless
Steel brake bleeding line.
Cold brakes are a dream. Hot brakes are
a completely different animal.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 1:23
PM
You are 100% correct Matt. Speedbleeders are a 1-man tool for
bleeding
the -entire- braking system in about 30 seconds.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:45:37
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
There should be no need to do that on hot
brakes..unless you have other
problems, or forgot to do it when they were
cold BEFORE you started
racing.
:^)
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Darren
Schilberg wrote:
> For 99% of the world the SpeedBleeder is a
one-person operation. But I have
> never found that flexible (cheap)
tubing to stay its shape after contacting
> the bleeder screw of a several
hundred degree F caliper. Even at 150-200
> degrees the tube relaxes
and starts to leak fluid. Yes, even with a twistie
> tie zipped
around it there is not seal. I have to keep cutting the end off
>
the tube as it splits open to make sure it seats properly. Maybe I need
a
> Stainless Steel brake bleeding line.
>
> Cold brakes are
a dream. Hot brakes are a completely different animal.
>
>
--Flash!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:36:17
+0200
From: Henri Le Hir <
hlehir@lucent.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Misconceptions about drivetrain losses
The drivetrain losses depend
on.
- -Rpm
- -Gear in use
- -Speed (ok, directly related to the two
above)
- -Tires (materiel, brand, pressure and temperature)
- -Oil in
tranny (Brand & Viscosity)
- -Oil in differential (Brand &
Viscosity)
- -Temperature of said oils
- -And other "fudge"
factors...
BUT.....
Drivetrain losses depends VERY LITTLE on the
POWER of the engine !!!!!!
So...if you say that the drivetrain power loss
is about 20% of the STOCK
engine output, it's kinda correct.
But, if
you increase your engine output by say, 30% (from 300 to 400 hp),
there's NO
WAY that the drivetrain loss will magically increase by 30 %. In
fact, the
increase is well below the 5 % line (and there are so
many
factors.....)
Hope I'm clear.
To calculate these
drivetrain losses you must do the following...put the car
on a dyno
1
- Accelerate the car until you reach redline, or the dyno max speed.
2 -
Depress the clutch, but LEAVE THE GEAR IN
3 - The dyno will then record
"negative" horsepower, this is power eaten by
the drivetrain. Let the car
slow down to 0 (Of course, do NOT brake :-)
Repeat for ALL the
gears.
Finally, do the same, but put the stick to neutral.
Then you
should be beable to say "when I'm at SSS speed,in XXX th gear, then
I lose
AAA amount of horsepower because of the drivetrain.
To add confusion,
some people quote "drivetrain losses" as....
The maximum value for the
losses in the drivetrain through all gears
The maximum value for the losses
in the drivetrain through the highest gear
(5th or 6th)
The value of the
loss at engine peak horsepower
The value of the loss at peak "WHEELS"
horsepower
Then the result is corrected for "standard conditions" (i.e.
20C, sea level
pressure)
Depending on the engine, the peak output "at the
rear wheel" may or may not
be the same as the engine peak
output.
As you can see, power loss through the drivetrain is not
completely linar,
and it's a function of the SPEED, and at max out put, it's
about 20%
The above is for a MANUAL car .... for an auto....well,
Negative horsepower
runs on auto's will only give you the loss from the
output shaft back, not
the whole trans, and you cannot add this to horsepower
to get crank
horsepower as this does not take into account other losses.
But,if you are
trying synthetic fluids, pinion angle ect.. this will be the
way to
differentiate between two products or settings.
Dyno is only a
tool, or a ruler, The real tuning is what you do with it. You
still need to
use the measurements properly.
Henri
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:44:42
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Dipstick reading
Remember the complaints about my dipstick not
giving accurate readings?
Well here is the proof. There are four
pictures broken into pairs. The
first shows the dipstick clean and
ready for measuring. I took a picture of
the front and back (notches
facing away and notches facing toward). Then I
dunked it in the
tube and pulled it out. The next two pictures show the
same sides where
the front side is nearly clean and only a little bit of oil
along the bottom
edge. Upon flipping it over there is oil coated all the
way up to where
the stick bends (past the Full notch).
Any explanations?
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/dipstick/index.htm-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4 and guessing when to fill/drain oil
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:45:20
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
Well I hadn't considered racing applications
and can see that Speed
Bleeders could come in handy. For the once every year
or two
do-it-yourselfer I still say save your money and spend it on
good
brake fluid.
I did forget to mention a very handy device Speed
Bleeders sells that
is worth the $7 or $8 they charge. It is a drain tube
sealed to an
attached bag. All clear flexible plastic. This thing works
GREAT! It
replaces the standard tube and jar setup. The one tube/bag goes
with
you from caliper and caliper and easily contains all bled fluid.
Just
drain it out into another container when done.
When I talked to
the owner of Speed Bleeders, he seemed aware of the
different sizes needed
for our cars. Some confusion will arise over
the 7 vs 8 mm for the rear. The
thread size is 7 mm for the 3/92-5/93
production dates only rear calipers
(again AWD, I don't know about
FWD models). The *wrench* size is 8 mm.
Normally wrench and thread
size match, but not in this case. All other AWD
calipers should use
the 10 mm bleeders. The clutch slave cylinder uses a 10
mm bleeder.
So want to know if you need 7 mm or 10 mm? Go put a wrench
on the
stock bleeder. If it acceptes a 10 mm wrench, buy that size
bleeder.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:46:02
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Speed Bleeders
There was talk that my master cylinder needed
bleeding so that might have
been why I had some air bubbles in and had to do
it hot. I agree though.
Wait -- it means I get to buy more Motul
600 from you though. <grin>
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Geoff Mohler
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 1:46 PM
There should
be no need to do that on hot brakes..unless you have other
problems, or
forgot to do it when they were cold BEFORE you
started
racing.
:^)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:08:35
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
*laugh*
Well the good news is I dont
have to charge you sales tax no mo.
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Darren Schilberg
wrote:
> There was talk that my master cylinder needed bleeding so
that might have
> been why I had some air bubbles in and had to do it
hot. I agree though.
>
> Wait -- it means I get to buy more
Motul 600 from you though. <grin>
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
> Sent: Thursday, September 27,
2001 1:46 PM
>
> There should be no need to do that on hot
brakes..unless you have other
> problems, or forgot to do it when they
were cold BEFORE you started
> racing.
>
> :^)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:28:57
-0400
From: "Mark Elkin" <
markelkin@mindspring.com>
Subject:
FW: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Elkin [mailto:markelkin@mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001
1:28 PM
To: Geoff Mohler
Subject: RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
Here's
a stupid question,
I have not bled my brakes on my 3000 before so I am
not sure exactly where
on the caliper the bleeding nipple is. Is it
possible using Geoff's "vacuum
line" set-up to bleed them without taking the
wheels off the car? If it
only takes a few minutes to bleed them, it
would take longer than that just
taking the wheels off and putting them back
on.
Mark
'96 VR-4
'97 YZF 600R
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Thursday,
September 27, 2001 1:21 PM
To: Andie W. Lin
Cc:
dschilberg@pobox.com; Team3S
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
Yep, theyve proved immensely invaluable to us
with our 5 vehicles that
commonly see the race track, or heavy-duty braking
over extended periods
of time (tow vehicle). Its taken the job from
2people and 20 minutes, to
1 person and about 5 minutes to do the whole
car.
Trick: Save old oil bottles. Run a vacum line from the
end of the
bleeders down into the bottle...pump the pedal 3-5 times and seal
it all
back up. Prevents spills and is a handy way to store the old
fluid until
you recycle it.
> I have used SB's on 4 brake systems,
and they are a one-man bleeding
> setup. The spring and ball bearing
inside each bleeder screw acts as a
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just
ask! *
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:00:35
-0400
From: "Mark Elkin" <
markelkin@mindspring.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Speed Bleeders
Here's a stupid question,
I have not bled
my brakes on my 3000 before so I am not sure exactly where
on the caliper the
bleeding nipple is. Is it possible using Geoff's "vacuum
line" set-up
to bleed them without taking the wheels off the car? If it
only takes a
few minutes to bleed them, it would take longer than that just
taking the
wheels off and putting them back on.
Mark
'96 VR-4
'97 YZF
600R
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Thursday,
September 27, 2001 1:21 PM
To: Andie W. Lin
Cc:
dschilberg@pobox.com; Team3S
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
Yep, theyve proved immensely invaluable to us
with our 5 vehicles that
commonly see the race track, or heavy-duty braking
over extended periods
of time (tow vehicle). Its taken the job from
2people and 20 minutes, to
1 person and about 5 minutes to do the whole
car.
Trick: Save old oil bottles. Run a vacum line from the
end of the
bleeders down into the bottle...pump the pedal 3-5 times and seal
it all
back up. Prevents spills and is a handy way to store the old
fluid until
you recycle it.
> I have used SB's on 4 brake systems,
and they are a one-man bleeding
> setup. The spring and ball bearing
inside each bleeder screw acts as a
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just
ask! *
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:03:16
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Slotted and drilled rotors
[Willis, Charles
E.] I'm sure the major manufacturers of sports
cars that supply stock
cross drilled rotors will be interested to have
Wilwood Brakes educate them
on the deficiencies of crossdrilled versus flat
rotors. let's see, was
that BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, who else?
> The following is from
the Wilwood Brakes FAQ page just in case you think
> slotted and drilled
rotors are good for racing.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:49:23
-0400
From: "Jason Barnhart" <
phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Misconceptions about drivetrain losses
Henri,
You've
made good points. Points that have been made countless
times
before. You might want to save this email so you can quickly
resend it
without typing the entire thing over again in two
months.
The only point I might disagree with is that by shifting
to neutral or
pushing in the clutch, you're measuring rolling resistance
(lack of better
term), not the power actually being lost while accelerating
or while trying
to make peak power. The number shown on this 'test'
will be the same on a
600hp car as it is on a 300hp car as long as the
drivetrains are the same
(clutch, driveshaft, rims, tires, etc), which isn't
terribly accurate but
will give a solid idea.
The only TRUE way
to measure drivetrain loss is to engine dyno and chassis
dyno the car,
something not one of us will likely do. And why does everyone
care so
much about drivetrain loss anyway? It really doesn't matter what
it's
making at the crank if it's lost on it's way to the ground. Any
tool
used to ESTIMATE hp by using calculating drivetrain loss as a percentage
is
going to be grossly inaccurate especially as the list of mods gets
larger
unless the person knows their magical loss percentage on THEIR
car.
Drivetrain loss is much more accurate when stated as an
actual number. If
a person MUST know what THEIR percentage loss is then
they have to know what
their crank hp is and use the actual hp lost to
calculate the percentage.
100hp lost on a 300 crank hp car is 33% loss for
example. This is still
only a rough idea. If you know someone
who's dyno'd their car and gotten
the drivetrain loss as described by Henri
then you can bet your drivetrain
loss is going to be near identical. If
your drivetrain is similar then just
use the actual hp number they lost to
determine YOUR percentage.
Car A makes 300hp on a stock drivetrain.
Car B makes 600hp on a stock
drivetrain. Using the test mentioned, the
'drivetrain loss' is going to be
identical. Let's say they both lose
100hp in this test. That's 33% on car
A, but only 16.5% on car B.
In actuality they will have differing
drivetrain losses, but using this
method instead of chassis dyno and engine
dyno you'll never see
it.
Jason
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Henri Le Hir"
<
hlehir@lucent.com>
To: <
team3s@mail.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Thursday, September 27, 2001 1:36 PM
Subject: Team3S: Misconceptions about
drivetrain losses
> The drivetrain losses depend on.
>
>
-Rpm
> -Gear in use
> -Speed (ok, directly related to the two
above)
> -Tires (materiel, brand, pressure and temperature)
> -Oil
in tranny (Brand & Viscosity)
> -Oil in differential (Brand &
Viscosity)
> -Temperature of said oils
> -And other "fudge"
factors...
>
> BUT.....
>
> Drivetrain losses depends
VERY LITTLE on the POWER of the engine !!!!!!
>
> So...if you say
that the drivetrain power loss is about 20% of the STOCK
> engine output,
it's kinda correct.
>
> But, if you increase your engine output by
say, 30% (from 300 to 400 hp),
> there's NO WAY that the drivetrain loss
will magically increase by 30 %.
In
> fact, the increase is well below
the 5 % line (and there are so many
> factors.....)
>
> Hope
I'm clear.
>
> To calculate these drivetrain losses you must do the
following...put the
car
> on a dyno
>
> 1 - Accelerate the
car until you reach redline, or the dyno max speed.
> 2 - Depress the
clutch, but LEAVE THE GEAR IN
> 3 - The dyno will then record "negative"
horsepower, this is power eaten
by
> the drivetrain. Let the car slow
down to 0 (Of course, do NOT brake :-)
>
> Repeat for ALL the
gears.
> Finally, do the same, but put the stick to
neutral.
>
> Then you should be beable to say "when I'm at SSS
speed,in XXX th gear,
then
> I lose AAA amount of horsepower because of
the drivetrain.
>
> To add confusion, some people quote "drivetrain
losses" as....
>
> The maximum value for the losses in the
drivetrain through all gears
> The maximum value for the losses in the
drivetrain through the highest
gear
> (5th or 6th)
> The value of
the loss at engine peak horsepower
> The value of the loss at peak
"WHEELS" horsepower
>
> Then the result is corrected for "standard
conditions" (i.e. 20C, sea
level
> pressure)
> Depending on the
engine, the peak output "at the rear wheel" may or may
not
> be the
same as the engine peak output.
>
> As you can see, power loss
through the drivetrain is not completely
linar,
> and it's a function
of the SPEED, and at max out put, it's about 20%
>
> The above is
for a MANUAL car .... for an auto....well, Negative
horsepower
> runs
on auto's will only give you the loss from the output shaft back, not
>
the whole trans, and you cannot add this to horsepower to get crank
>
horsepower as this does not take into account other losses. But,if you
are
> trying synthetic fluids, pinion angle ect.. this will be the way
to
> differentiate between two products or settings.
>
> Dyno
is only a tool, or a ruler, The real tuning is what you do with
it.
You
> still need to use the measurements properly.
>
>
Henri
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:09:18
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Slotted and drilled rotors
> [Willis, Charles
E.] I'm sure the major manufacturers of sports
> cars that supply
stock cross drilled rotors will be interested to have
> Wilwood Brakes
educate them on the deficiencies of crossdrilled versus flat
>
rotors. let's see, was that BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, who else?
-
---
And they are most likely SPECIFICALLY engineered to be that way as
well.
Wilwood speaks directly to thier customers, using thier hardware..which
is
in all honesty applicable to any street car or standard rotor that
never
had drilling in mind when the entire package was
engineered.
Wilwood is not claiming what those manufacturers have done is
wrong at
all.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just
ask! *
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:14:11
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
> Here's a stupid question,
[Willis,
Charles E.] There are no stupid questions, only
stupid
answers!
> I have not bled my brakes on my 3000 before so I
am not sure exactly where
> on the caliper the bleeding nipple is.
[Willis, Charles E.] The bleeder valve is hidden under a rubber
cap
on each caliper - forward inboard side of the front stock calipers
rear
inboard side of the stock rear calipers.
> Is it possible
using Geoff's "vacuum
> line" set-up to bleed them without taking the
wheels off the car?
[Willis, Charles E.]
Don't
know.
> If it
> only takes a few minutes to bleed them, it would
take longer than that
> just
> taking the wheels off and putting
them back on.
[Willis, Charles E.] Exactly - the slow part is raising
and
supporting the car and removing the wheels. Maybe you could reach
the
bleeder with the car on a lift, but I have never tried
it.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:18:25
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Speed Bleeders
> > Is it possible using Geoff's
"vacuum
> > line" set-up to bleed them without taking the wheels off
the car?
> [Willis, Charles E.]
> Don't know.
-
---
yes, but adds a PITA value to it. :^)
> [Willis,
Charles E.] Exactly - the slow part is raising and
> supporting the
car and removing the wheels. Maybe you could reach the
> bleeder
with the car on a lift, but I have never tried it.
- ---
You can..but as I
said, adds more effort.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask!
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:32:07
-0400
From: "Jason Barnhart" <
phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dipstick reading
For it to be absolutely dry on one side I'd say
that the oil level is only
going that far up the dipstick. It's
possible, although highly unlikely,
that the dipstick is being cleaned off to
the point that it's dry on just
that side. I'd bet that on the flip
side, there is oil splattered in the
dipstick tube that is causing it to be
wet on that side. This isn't to say
that you're below the low mark
necessarily, maybe your dipstick isn't
inserting far enough or
something. I'd make sure the oil is checked with
the car sitting for
awhile, maybe an hour or so. Heck, to make sure that
oil isn't 'hanging
around' in the dipstick tube, take the dipstick out, plug
the tube, and then
let it sit for an hour. Then try checking it again, with
the car on a
level surface and without it running.
In order to get oil that high on
one side the dipstick would have to be
laying almost flat in the oil.
There's got to be another reason, something
is either cleaning one side or
depositing on one side.
Jason
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: "Team3S"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 27, 2001 1:44 PM
Subject: Team3S: Dipstick
reading
> Remember the complaints about my dipstick not giving
accurate readings?
> Well here is the proof. There are four pictures
broken into pairs. The
> first shows the dipstick clean and ready
for measuring. I took a picture
of
> the front and back (notches
facing away and notches facing toward). Then
I
> dunked it
in the tube and pulled it out. The next two pictures show the
> same
sides where the front side is nearly clean and only a little bit
of
oil
> along the bottom edge. Upon flipping it over there is
oil coated all the
> way up to where the stick bends (past the Full
notch).
>
> Any explanations?
>
>
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/dipstick/index.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:43:01
-0400
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <
stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Caliper paint
Another "rule of thumb" on powder coating and
temperature:
Thermoplastic coatings will melt, drip, run, and burn at around
400-500 F.
Thermoset coatings will survive much better at higher
temperatures, but it
wasn't until fairly recently that compounds that could
survive 1000 F hit
the market.
But after you've selected the right
compound, the secret to a good finish is
*meticulous* surface
preparation.
I can provide more details if folks are interested, but
it'll probably be
best if taken off-line. Hope this
helps.
Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Watkins, Jim" <
jim.watkins@terayon.com>
To:
"'Jim Berry'" <
fastmax@home.com>;
"Dennis and Anita Moore"
<
stealth@quixnet.net>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Caliper
paint
> Here is some info from
www.powdercoat.com>
>
Question: "I am looking for high temperature powders; something that can
>
withstand 1000 deg. for engine exhaust system parts. I have seen exhaust
>
headers and pipes on street rods and snowmobiles that have a high temp
>
silver coating. Is this a wet or powder coat and who manufactures these
>
coatings?"
>
> Powder Coating Consultants: "H. B. Fuller has a
complete line of organic
> powder coatings that can withstand 1000 degree
F temperatures. The silver
> coating you are describing doesn't ring a
bell. This coating may have a
> metalic base and/or may not be a
powder."
>
> Cure temperatures of 350 to 400 degrees F will cook all
bearings, seals,
> o-rings, etc.
>
> >From what I read,
powder coating is the best choice for painting metal
> parts. You
just need to find a good techician and use the right compound
> for the
application.
>
> Jim Watkins
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:23:14
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Misconceptions about drivetrain losses
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: "Henri Le Hir" <
hlehir@lucent.com>
> > To
calculate these drivetrain losses you must do the following...put the
>
car
> > on a dyno
> >
> > 1 - Accelerate the car
until you reach redline, or the dyno max speed.
> > 2 - Depress the
clutch, but LEAVE THE GEAR IN
> > 3 - The dyno will then record
"negative" horsepower, this is power eaten
> by
> > the
drivetrain. Let the car slow down to 0 (Of course, do NOT brake :-)
I've
brought up this point several times and have yet to receive an estimate.
With
a two wheel drive car you can measure ½ the drive train loss --- the
front
wheels are stationary and their contribution to the total loss is
ignored,
this is not the case with a four wheel dyno where all four wheels
are included
in the loss measurements.
The question is --- what is the
loss generated by the front wheels of a two
wheel drive car --- I assume most
of the loss at the front is from tires, it
might easily add a loss 3% or more
to a two wheel drive car.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:43:29
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Caliper paint
Anyone know what kind of cost we are talking
about to get a set of 4
stock calipers treated. (wouldn't they look
cool in jet-hot).
Regardless, I am getting ready to rebuild mine, and I was
going to paint
them, but I think the powder coating would be much neater, and
hopefully
more resilient... Wonder what it would cost to get them
jet-hot coated.
Anyone have any clues???
- -Cody
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Dennis and Anita Moore
Sent:
Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:43 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Caliper paint
Another "rule of thumb" on powder coating and
temperature:
Thermoplastic coatings will melt, drip, run, and burn at around
400-500
F.
Thermoset coatings will survive much better at higher
temperatures, but
it
wasn't until fairly recently that compounds that
could survive 1000 F
hit
the market.
But after you've selected the
right compound, the secret to a good
finish is
*meticulous* surface
preparation.
I can provide more details if folks are interested, but
it'll probably
be
best if taken off-line. Hope this
helps.
Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:16:42
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Caliper paint
got it free from by brother-in-law.
I'll
seek specifics like what the heck he put on them and how much it would
cost
someone who wasn't related.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: cody [SMTP:overclck@starband.net]
> Sent:
Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:43 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE:
Team3S: Caliper paint
>
> Anyone know what kind of cost we are
talking about to get a set of 4
> stock calipers treated. (wouldn't
they look cool in jet-hot).
> Regardless, I am getting ready to rebuild
mine, and I was going to paint
> them, but I think the powder coating
would be much neater, and hopefully
> more resilient... Wonder what
it would cost to get them jet-hot coated.
> Anyone have any
clues???
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:22:59
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Caliper paint
Jet coating keeps heat -in-...
Consider
this theory of any coating (although jet coating is designed to
do it better)
if you race your car. The caliper needs to be as cool as it
can be, and
reducing a porous dull metal to a shiny smooth surface works
against the idea
of dissipating heat.
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, cody wrote:
> Anyone
know what kind of cost we are talking about to get a set of 4
> stock
calipers treated. (wouldn't they look cool in jet-hot).
>
Regardless, I am getting ready to rebuild mine, and I was going to paint
>
them, but I think the powder coating would be much neater, and hopefully
>
more resilient... Wonder what it would cost to get them jet-hot
coated.
> Anyone have any clues???
>
> -Cody