Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, September 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 627




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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:10:35 EDT
From: DiABLoCarAudio@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

> you need a "front caliper seal kit"

Just to save someone an entire evening...:
For VR4 stock front brake calipers: (MB857261 Seal Kit)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:14:57 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

>Apply heat shrink tubing around it first...make sure it's tight at the
>swaged ends to keep dust and debris out.  THEN put on the silicone hosing
>with zip tires.
>
While we're wrapping up brake lines, what do you think of the idea of
wrapping them in a water jacket? In other words, run cold water down some
length of the brake line, and then spray the emerging water onto the rotor
and caliper. I already use water injection to one side of the rotor, but I
was thinking about rigging up a three-prong system to spray both sides of
the rotor plus the caliper. Seems like it would be easy to put a water
jacket around the brake line.  How hot does the brake fluid get out in the
line, anyway? Think it might get hot enough to boil out of the jacket?
Does all the heat generated stay within the caliper, or does a significant
amount transfer out to the SS lines like a heat sink?
Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:47:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

Merritt:

You still dont understand water cooling.

You DONT spray the rotor directly, you atomize the water in your cooling
ducts and the cool AIR does the majority of the work.

Direct wawter just creates an insulating steam layer..and does little
actualy cooling because its never in direct contact with the rotor.


On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Merritt wrote:

> >Apply heat shrink tubing around it first...make sure it's tight at the
> >swaged ends to keep dust and debris out.  THEN put on the silicone hosing
> >with zip tires.
> >
> While we're wrapping up brake lines, what do you think of the idea of
> wrapping them in a water jacket? In other words, run cold water down some
> length of the brake line, and then spray the emerging water onto the rotor
> and caliper. I already use water injection to one side of the rotor, but I
> was thinking about rigging up a three-prong system to spray both sides of
> the rotor plus the caliper. Seems like it would be easy to put a water
> jacket around the brake line.  How hot does the brake fluid get out in the
> line, anyway? Think it might get hot enough to boil out of the jacket?
> Does all the heat generated stay within the caliper, or does a significant
> amount transfer out to the SS lines like a heat sink?
> Rich

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:53:25 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

No, YOU don't understand.
Ducting air to the rotors certainly helps -- and I definitely use air ducts
- -- but cooling down the air by injecting water vapor into it doesn't do a
dang thing. It drops the air temperature a smidge, which has little or no
effect. Do you think air at 75 F instead of 80 F makes any difference to a
1000 F rotor?

On the other hand, injecting water directly onto the rotors causes the
water to flash to steam, and the steam surrounds and cools the rotors.
Also, injecting water directly onto the rotors gets a larger volume of
water into the equation than it does if the water is in an air stream,
where it can easily be blown away.

Watch those big trucks racing in England some time: they carry 100 gallons
of cooling water, and they literally POUR the water onto the rotors, where
it flashes to steam. You can see the clouds of steam coming off the front
brakes. When their water is gone, they can't stop those trucks. The number
of laps they run is governed by how long 100 gallons of water lasts.

Also, the reason I want to inject water directly down into the calipers is
to cool the calipers, seals and brake fluid, just like TransAm cars do.
We've discussed this before.

Finally, I KNOW that both my cooling air ducts AND my water injection
systems work, because I can see what happens when I run out of water or rip
off an air duct. I don't need any further convincing.

All I want to know is: Will it do any good to put a water jacket on the
brake lines?

Rich

At 02:47 PM 9/25/01 -0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:

>You still dont understand water cooling.
>You DONT spray the rotor directly, you atomize the water in your cooling
>ducts and the cool AIR does the majority of the work.
>Direct wawter just creates an insulating steam layer..and does little
>actualy cooling because its never in direct contact with the rotor.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:23:03 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

Just make sure you put the seals in, in the right direction....they are
tapered. the smallest point on the inside diameter should point away from
the rotor side. Mock diagram below..........

rotor side

\    /

inner caliper

Wayne

At 01:42 PM 9/25/01 , Ken Stanton wrote:
>Alright, summary of what to do, so far...
>
>Order the rebuild kit for the calipers (IS THERE / SHOULD I DO REARS?).
>Pull off my calipers and brake lines (ALL 4).
>Rebuild the calipers.
>Paint the calipers (yes, I am going to).
>Install the SS Brake Lines, shield them with silicone hosing.
>Reinstall the calipers.
>Fill with brake fluid (WHAT KIND?  I don't race, and can't afford the
>time to redo frequently).
>Bleed brakes.
>Stop.
>
>Ken

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

I'll quote from the Bobe of Braking this evening on this.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Merritt wrote:

> No, YOU don't understand.
> Ducting air to the rotors certainly helps -- and I definitely use air ducts
> -- but cooling down the air by injecting water vapor into it doesn't do a
> dang thing. It drops the air temperature a smidge, which has little or no
> effect. Do you think air at 75 F instead of 80 F makes any difference to a
> 1000 F rotor?
>
> On the other hand, injecting water directly onto the rotors causes the
> water to flash to steam, and the steam surrounds and cools the rotors.
> Also, injecting water directly onto the rotors gets a larger volume of
> water into the equation than it does if the water is in an air stream,
> where it can easily be blown away.
>
> Watch those big trucks racing in England some time: they carry 100 gallons
> of cooling water, and they literally POUR the water onto the rotors, where
> it flashes to steam. You can see the clouds of steam coming off the front
> brakes. When their water is gone, they can't stop those trucks. The number
> of laps they run is governed by how long 100 gallons of water lasts.
>
> Also, the reason I want to inject water directly down into the calipers is
> to cool the calipers, seals and brake fluid, just like TransAm cars do.
> We've discussed this before.
>
> Finally, I KNOW that both my cooling air ducts AND my water injection
> systems work, because I can see what happens when I run out of water or rip
> off an air duct. I don't need any further convincing.
>
> All I want to know is: Will it do any good to put a water jacket on the
> brake lines?
>
> Rich
>
> At 02:47 PM 9/25/01 -0700, Geoff Mohler wrote:
> >You still dont understand water cooling.
> >You DONT spray the rotor directly, you atomize the water in your cooling
> >ducts and the cool AIR does the majority of the work.
> >Direct wawter just creates an insulating steam layer..and does little
> >actualy cooling because its never in direct contact with the rotor.

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

Sorry..BIBLE of Braking..

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Geoff Mohler wrote:

> I'll quote from the Bobe of Braking this evening on this.
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Merritt wrote:
>
> > No, YOU don't understand.
> > Ducting air to the rotors certainly helps -- and I definitely use air ducts
> > -- but cooling down the air by injecting water vapor into it doesn't do a
> > dang thing. It drops the air temperature a smidge, which has little or no
> > effect. Do you think air at 75 F instead of 80 F makes any difference to a
> > 1000 F rotor?
> >
> > On the other hand, injecting water directly onto the rotors causes the
> > water to flash to steam, and the steam surrounds and cools the rotors.
> > Also, injecting water directly onto the rotors gets a larger volume of
> > water into the equation than it does if the water is in an air stream,
> > where it can easily be blown away.
> >
> > Watch those big trucks racing in England some time: they carry 100 gallons
> > of cooling water, and they literally POUR the water onto the rotors, where
> > it flashes to steam. You can see the clouds of steam coming off the front
> > brakes. When their water is gone, they can't stop those trucks. The number
> > of laps they run is governed by how long 100 gallons of water lasts.
> >
> > Also, the reason I want to inject water directly down into the calipers is
> > to cool the calipers, seals and brake fluid, just like TransAm cars do.
> > We've discussed this before.
> >
> > Finally, I KNOW that both my cooling air ducts AND my water injection
> > systems work, because I can see what happens when I run out of water or rip
> > off an air duct. I don't need any further convincing.
> >
> > All I want to know is: Will it do any good to put a water jacket on the
> > brake lines?
> >
> > Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:06:25 -0400
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifter pops out of 4th gear: 1994 3000gt SL

> I would really check the 5th gear nut.Had it happen on my Base and
R/T,saved the
> R/T, but busted a soft ball hole it the end cover and trans on the
base.Worth the
> trouble to check!,not hard.But thats the way it started on both cars.

In case you're wondering how to do this, I was digging through the archives
today (looking for something else, of course) and came across a great
step-by-step for tightening the nut.  (Originally posted by Matt Jannusch.)
I think removing the right front tire might make access somewhat easier.  I
had a similar problem with 5th gear in my 93 Stealth ES, didn't follow step
1 below, cost a couple C notes to replace the resulting damaged parts.
Enjoy:

Step 1:  Stop driving the car

Step 2:  Take off the plastic fender trim in the passenger side wheelwell.

Step 3:  Drain the tranny fluid, using the drain bolt on the bottom edge of
the tranny.

Step 4:  Remove the end cover of the tranny.

Step 5:  On the uppermost gear of the tranny is a big nut - tighten that.  I
forget the torque spec, but "a lot of torque" would be reasonably accurate -
probably something like 50-60 ft/lbs.  The washer below it should have bent
pieces designed to hold the hexes of the nut - make sure they are
sufficiently bent up to hold the nut in place.

Step 6:  Reassemble, using proper gasket sealant and such, refill to the
appropriate fill plug with the proper viscosity and grade (GL-4) tranny
fluid (I recommend BG Synchroshift) and you should be set.

Don't forget about Step 1!  If you are to the point of it popping out of
gear on its own, you are on the edge of permanent and expensive transmission
damage.

Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:07:33 -0700
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifter pops out of 4th gear: 1994 3000gt SL

 Hey,
  I would of told him if he was ready to go for it!Some of  those steps aren't
right on.If you need help let me know,I've taken a few through this.
 Love these cars hate working on them,getting to old to bend under the hood!
RICK
 '92 R/T TT
 '91 Base and R/T gone with the XXXXXXXXXX WIFE

Dennis and Anita Moore wrote:

> > I would really check the 5th gear nut.Had it happen on my Base and
> R/T,saved the
> > R/T, but busted a soft ball hole it the end cover and trans on the
> base.Worth the
> > trouble to check!,not hard.But thats the way it started on both cars.
>
> In case you're wondering how to do this, I was digging through the archives
> today (looking for something else, of course) and came across a great
> step-by-step for tightening the nut.  (Originally posted by Matt Jannusch.)
> I think removing the right front tire might make access somewhat easier.  I
> had a similar problem with 5th gear in my 93 Stealth ES, didn't follow step
> 1 below, cost a couple C notes to replace the resulting damaged parts.
> Enjoy:
>
> Step 1:  Stop driving the car
>
> Step 2:  Take off the plastic fender trim in the passenger side wheelwell.
>
> Step 3:  Drain the tranny fluid, using the drain bolt on the bottom edge of
> the tranny.
>
> Step 4:  Remove the end cover of the tranny.
>
> Step 5:  On the uppermost gear of the tranny is a big nut - tighten that.  I
> forget the torque spec, but "a lot of torque" would be reasonably accurate -
> probably something like 50-60 ft/lbs.  The washer below it should have bent
> pieces designed to hold the hexes of the nut - make sure they are
> sufficiently bent up to hold the nut in place.
>
> Step 6:  Reassemble, using proper gasket sealant and such, refill to the
> appropriate fill plug with the proper viscosity and grade (GL-4) tranny
> fluid (I recommend BG Synchroshift) and you should be set.
>
> Don't forget about Step 1!  If you are to the point of it popping out of
> gear on its own, you are on the edge of permanent and expensive transmission
> damage.
>
> Dennis Moore
> 93 Stealth ES

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:24:59 -0700
From: Richard <radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Thats right. Generally at least 25% HP loss from crank through the
drivetrain. This means closer to 230 HP stock!

Jeff VanOrsdal wrote:
>
> The weight sounds about right.  A friend of mine weighed his 91 Stealth TT
> with himself, a subwoofer box and a half tank of gas and came out to 4080
> lbs.  I wouldn't take the HP estimate too seriously. I doubt the GTech has a
> built in correction for AWD losses.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
> jeffv@1nce.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Payne, Scott
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 10:44 AM
> To: Team3S (E-mail)
> Subject: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
>
> Just got my new toy. A GTech-pro and had a few questions.
> I have a 94 Stealth Twin Turbo with K&N Fliter Charger Kit as my only mod.
> I entered in a weight of 4119 lbs. That is my first question. I got this
> weight from the drivers side door panel and subtracted 180 lbs per missing
> passager as instructed by Gtech. This weight sounds high to me.
> Second question is what HP numbers have you guys come up with? I average 275
> HP according to Gtech. That sounds really low to me. Although one time it
> did read 295. What method do you guys use to get HP readings from your
> Gtech's? I simply accelerate to 6500 RPM's in 1st and second gear. I never
> hit 6500 RPM's in 3rd because my speed exceeds 120 MPH which is where Gtech
> cuts out.

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:26:40 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Don't you have that backwards???  The G-Tech should measure horsepower
to the ground, so for real Engine output, at the crank, you would add
approximately 20 - 20%....  So, we'll say 275 hp x 20% = 330 HP at the
crank....

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Richard
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 7:25 PM
To: jeffv@1nce.com
Cc: Team3s Tech List
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Thats right. Generally at least 25% HP loss from crank through the
drivetrain. This means closer to 230 HP stock!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:40:42 -0400
From: "Andie W Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Hmm...on the NSX, it's around 11% drivetrain loss.  I find it interesting
that the 3000GT has a 25% loss from the crank to the wheels?  Is this on the
VR-4 because it is 4-wheel drive?  On a typical front-engine, rear-wheel
drive car, it's between 12-15%.

Any takers on this one?

Andie

::-----Original Message-----
::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Richard
::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 8:25 PM
::To: jeffv@1nce.com
::Cc: Team3s Tech List
::Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
::
::
::Thats right. Generally at least 25% HP loss from crank through the
::drivetrain. This means closer to 230 HP stock!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:46:31 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

> Hmm...on the NSX, it's around 11% drivetrain loss.  I find it interesting
that the 3000GT has a 25% loss from the crank to the wheels?  Is this on the
VR-4 because it is 4-wheel drive?  On a typical front-engine, rear-wheel
drive car, it's between 12-15%.
> Any takers on this one?
> Andie

Yup, it's the AWD (not 4WD - that's another discussion that's in the
archives) and we've discussed it before on the list.  I think Roger came up
with the closest estimates - somewhere between 25% and 28%(?)  Our FWD NA
models lose almost exactly 15%, as do most cars that put power to only 2
wheels.  With better tuning, the number gets a bit lower...  Shows how hot
your NSX must be!  :-)

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:52:38 -0400
From: "Andie W Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

::Yup, it's the AWD (not 4WD - that's another discussion that's in the

Sorry, that's what I meant; i.e. all wheel drive. :-)

Andie

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:35:13 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

This one has been addressed ad nauseaum --- The most frequently presented
number is 25 to 30%. There is undoubtly an increase in power train loss as a
result of the four wheel drive but I find it hard to believe that it would double
the loss.

        Jim Berry
=================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andie W Lin <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
To: Richard <radanc@home.com>; <jeffv@1nce.com>
Cc: Team3s Tech List <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro


> Hmm...on the NSX, it's around 11% drivetrain loss.  I find it interesting
> that the 3000GT has a 25% loss from the crank to the wheels?  Is this on the
> VR-4 because it is 4-wheel drive?  On a typical front-engine, rear-wheel
> drive car, it's between 12-15%.
>
> Any takers on this one?
>
> Andie
>
> ::-----Original Message-----
> ::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> ::Of Richard
> ::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 8:25 PM
> ::To: jeffv@1nce.com
> ::Cc: Team3s Tech List
> ::Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
> ::
> ::
> ::Thats right. Generally at least 25% HP loss from crank through the
> ::drivetrain. This means closer to 230 HP stock!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:49:54 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Since you're hanging around on line I have a couple of questions for a
brake system 'expert'.

Any comments on carbon/carbon systems. carbon rotors and carbon pads.

Do pads, as a friction material, respond in the same manner as other
materials --- is the drag generated independant of surface area as in the
classical physics experiments.

        Jim Berry
=================================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andie W Lin <andiewlin@yahoo.com>

> Hmm...on the NSX, it's around 11% drivetrain loss.  I find it interesting
> that the 3000GT has a 25% loss from the crank to the wheels?  Is this on the
> VR-4 because it is 4-wheel drive?  On a typical front-engine, rear-wheel
> drive car, it's between 12-15%.
>
> Any takers on this one?
>
> Andie

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:33:36 -0700
From: Richard <radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

this has been well validated by dyno runs on stock cars. Many tuners
like Brian at GTPro and Matt Monet can verify that stock cars have at
least 25% loss which is normal in AWD cars.

Rich

Jim Berry wrote:
>
> This one has been addressed ad nauseaum --- The most frequently presented
> number is 25 to 30%. There is undoubtly an increase in power train loss as a
> result of the four wheel drive but I find it hard to believe that it would double
> the loss.
>
>         Jim Berry
> =================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andie W Lin <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
> To: Richard <radanc@home.com>; <jeffv@1nce.com>
> Cc: Team3s Tech List <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:40 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
>
> > Hmm...on the NSX, it's around 11% drivetrain loss.  I find it interesting
> > that the 3000GT has a 25% loss from the crank to the wheels?  Is this on the
> > VR-4 because it is 4-wheel drive?  On a typical front-engine, rear-wheel
> > drive car, it's between 12-15%.
> >
> > Any takers on this one?
> >
> > Andie
> >
> > ::-----Original Message-----
> > ::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > ::Of Richard
> > ::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 8:25 PM
> > ::To: jeffv@1nce.com
> > ::Cc: Team3s Tech List
> > ::Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
> > ::
> > ::
> > ::Thats right. Generally at least 25% HP loss from crank through the
> > ::drivetrain. This means closer to 230 HP stock!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:36:58 -0700
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: ISO 94 TT

All:

My son has decided to join the DSM ranks and is looking
for a 1994 RT/TT or 1994 VR4.  His preference is red,
but if an emerald green (NOT the panama green) TT was
in his financial reach, he'd be happy.  Color
notwithstanding, straight, clean and MAINTENANCE
RECORDS are a must.  Mods aren't the priority here.

Please reply directly to me OFF LIST if you have one for
sale, and I'll forward the mail to him.

Mucho thanx!

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:46:19 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Congrats, Scott.  I just got finished selling my G-Tech Pro to another list
member since I have extracted all the numbers I need for now.  Let me dispel
a few myths and state some facts.

1. G-Tech Pro (www.gtechpro.com) is around $139.95 from most places.
2. It is really awesome to see that first number when you do a run.  God is
it thrilling.
3. My weight (with rollbar, half tank of gas, some track tools, spare tire,
etc.) is a guess but I enter around 4,100 pounds usually (once).  This
resulted in a reading of 280 hp.  Read the instructions though as I think it
tells you to burn through all 5 (or 6) gears in order to get the real hp
reading.  First and second only tell you the hp through those gears.  I ran
out of road doing it so had to stop at that hp in 4th gear.  I think I was
doing around 115 mph when I shifted up to 4th for 100 feet or so.
4. Remember that it does not start timing until it tilts so you can do a
rolling start and go 20-60 mph.  Be careful you do not cheat on the 0-60 and
do a rolling start instead.  Also, be sure to have it read 0.00 (tilt
measurement) otherwise the readings will be off if it is tilted or where you
are doing the test (braking) is of a different level then where you set it
as level.
5. Wherever you do the run do another one in the opposite direction.  This
might be downhill instead of against the wind instead of with it, etc.  Just
get an average of several runs to get a good number.
6. The G-Tech Pro is not meant to deliver numbers for our "Fastest 3/S car"
list since it is not confirmed but it is meant to compare from before one
mod until after one (such as the FIPK or new brake pads, etc.).
7. Contact me with more questions and I will see what I can do about
answering them back to the list.  I don't want to junk this up with things
nobody is interested in.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and former G-Tech Pro owner

- -----Original Message-----
From: Payne, Scott
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 10:44 AM

Just got my new toy. A GTech-pro and had a few questions.
I have a 94 Stealth Twin Turbo with K&N Fliter Charger Kit as my only mod.
I entered in a weight of 4119 lbs. That is my first question. I got this
weight from the drivers side door panel and subtracted 180 lbs per missing
passager as instructed by Gtech. This weight sounds high to me.
Second question is what HP numbers have you guys come up with? I average 275
HP according to Gtech. That sounds really low to me. Although one time it
did read 295. What method do you guys use to get HP readings from your
Gtech's? I simply accelerate to 6500 RPM's in 1st and second gear. I never
hit 6500 RPM's in 3rd because my speed exceeds 120 MPH which is where Gtech
cuts out.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 01:05:52 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Caliper paint

Dave,

   I bought high-temp paint from a Porsche supply catalog at about $50 for
the kit that will paint a LOT of surface.  It goes up to about 600 degrees F
I think but there are some that go much higher.
   I got it from Tweeks, http://www.tweeks.com/products.html, and ordered
Porsche Red so that my other parts would be like the calipers (Big Reds).  I
painted things such as words on the plenum, letters on the rear caliper
(Mitsubishi), etc.  You can see it in that link above as "Carstyling Brake
Caliper Lacquer."
   Great stuff.  Comes in three parts: spray cleaning, acrylic paint,
hardening agent.  It looks wet even when it is dry.  Fantastic looking.  I
can take pics for those interested.  A little goes a long way.  Buy it and
then sell to friends for a few touch-up spots.  Email for more details and
pictures.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Monarchi
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:07 PM

+> As far as "paints" go, you can have a caliper sent to be coated to
+> increase heat dissipation up to 50%.

I take it we're talking about special "paints" as opposed to a spray can
of Krylon?  :)  What does said coating usually cost?  Is this a high-dollar
race car mod?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:29:52 +0700
From: "CV. Duta Karya Teknik" <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
Subject: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY

My car is idling at 1000 rpm and I have tried to adjust BISS so that it will
be idling at 750 rpm - 800 rpm, before adjusted I grounded  a cable in the
engine compartment as tech. manual advised. But the rpm never come to 750
rpm it always stay at 1000 rpm.
Should I clean the throttle body by removing it and clean parts inside and
what should I take care for cleaning the throttle body so that whenever I
reinstall it I have no problem with engine.
Please kindly advise me and thank you very much for your kindly attention.

Regards,
Mei Harijanto

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 05:22:51 -0500
From: "Phil J. Hosner" <redvr4@texas.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY

I cleaned mine with Gumout Carburetor Cleaner. Worked very well.

Phil ~ '92 VR4
3/SI Member #0984

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "CV. Duta Karya Teknik" <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 01:29 AM
Subject: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY

Should I clean the throttle body by removing it and clean parts inside and
what should I take care for cleaning the throttle body so that whenever I
reinstall it I have no problem with engine.
Please kindly advise me and thank you very much for your kindly attention.

Regards,
Mei Harijanto

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:02:18 +0200
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Drivetrain loss can be measured on our dyno charts.

- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
      http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:06:22 -0400
From: "Bonnett, Wayne A" <WABonnett@upslogistics.com>
Subject: Team3S: Wheel / Tire suggestion

Well folks, I've finally competed in my first SCCA SOLO II event this past
Sunday.  I came in 12th out of 15 in the novice class.

Many people had various suggestions, but the one that stood out and was most
common, was the need for race tires and wheels.  My car is a 3000GT non
turbo (base), with factory 16in wheels.  I now feel the need to purchase
lighter wheels and racing tires and I'm looking for suggestions.  Would it
be a good idea to purchase 16, 17, or 18in racing wheels? 

I appreciate all input.

Thanks,
Wayne A. Bonnett
Programmer Analyst
UPS Logistics Group
Phone : (502) 961-1555
Atlas : 5-426-1555
Pager : (502) 478-2163
E-Page: 5024782163@epage.arch.com
E-Mail: WABonnett@UPSLogistics.com 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:14:44 -0400
From: "Bonnett, Wayne A" <WABonnett@upslogistics.com>
Subject: Team3S: FW: Wheel / Tire suggestion

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I've been put in the ESP because of I'm
not running with the factory intake.

Thanks,
Wayne

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bonnett, Wayne A
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 09:03
Cc: 'kyskydiver@mindspring.com'
Subject: Wheel / Tire suggestion

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:20:31 -0400
From: "rjmsmail@swbell.net" <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifter pops out of 4th gear: 1994 3000gt SL

Thanks again guys, but, just to make sure before I get my non-mechanically inclined butt under that car this weekend (I "have" to still drive it 40 miles per day to/from work as my other car is getting painted), am I right in assuming that this problem can occur even though 5th gear seems fine and the ONLY gear problem is 4th gear (and reverse sometimes)? 
Bob

Original Message:
- -----------------
From: Rick melvin@gamewood.net
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:07:33 -0700
To: stealth@quixnet.net, Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifter pops out of 4th gear: 1994 3000gt SL

 Hey,
  I would of told him if he was ready to go for it!Some of  those steps aren't
right on.If you need help let me know,I've taken a few through this.
 Love these cars hate working on them,getting to old to bend under the hood!
RICK
 '92 R/T TT
 '91 Base and R/T gone with the XXXXXXXXXX WIFE

Dennis and Anita Moore wrote:

> > I would really check the 5th gear nut.Had it happen on my Base and
> R/T,saved the
> Dennis Moore
> 93 Stealth ES

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Caliper paint

My comments are the same as Flash's except I used Foliatec (about the
same price, maybe $40). Same "3 part" system, applied with a brush.
Painted all calipers with two coats plus the custom front plug cover
letters and that only used about half the amount supplied. Warning
though, once the paint and hardener are mixed they cannot be stored
but must be used at once. G2 caliper paint is supposed to be a
similar product.

I have ~4K miles on the calipers and they look like I just painted
them. Nice, smooth, glossy black, but other colors available. I
removed calipers and used masking tape to block off areas not to be
painted. Very easy, plus provides an opportunity to change brake
fluid. Hint: twist the calipers off the brake lines (hold lines
steady and rotate the caliper), not twist the lines off the calipers.

Caliper painting web page will be up soon.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: <team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:05 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: Caliper paint

Dave,

   I bought high-temp paint from a Porsche supply catalog at about
$50 for the kit that will paint a LOT of surface.  It goes up to
about 600 degrees F I think but there are some that go much higher.
   I got it from Tweeks, http://www.tweeks.com/products.html, and
ordered Porsche Red so that my other parts would be like the calipers
(Big Reds).  I painted things such as words on the plenum, letters on
the rear caliper (Mitsubishi), etc.  You can see it in that link
above as "Carstyling Brake Caliper Lacquer."
   Great stuff.  Comes in three parts: spray cleaning, acrylic paint,
hardening agent.  It looks wet even when it is dry.  Fantastic
looking.  I can take pics for those interested.  A little goes a long
way.  Buy it and then sell to friends for a few touch-up spots.
Email for more details and pictures.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:46:55 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)

Motul 5.1 is what motorcyclists use.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 4:07 PM
> To: Ken Stanton; Team3S Stealth
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)
>
> ::Order the rebuild kit for the calipers (IS THERE / SHOULD I DO REARS?).
> ::Pull off my calipers and brake lines (ALL 4).
> ::Rebuild the calipers.
> ::Paint the calipers (yes, I am going to).
> ::Install the SS Brake Lines, shield them with silicone hosing.
>
> Apply heat shrink tubing around it first...make sure it's tight at the
> swaged ends to keep dust and debris out.  THEN put on the silicone hosing
> with zip tires.
>
> ::Reinstall the calipers.
> ::Fill with brake fluid (WHAT KIND?  I don't race, and can't afford the
> ::time to redo frequently).
>
> Motul 5.1 works well - no more hydroscopic than a regular street fluid.
>
> ::Bleed brakes.
>
> Get some speedbleeders from www.speedbleeder.com .  We are not dealers for
> SB...I just like their product, so you have to call them directly and ask
> for Michael (owner).
>
> Andie

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:44:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY

>> Phil J. Hosner" wrote:
>> I cleaned mine with Gumout Carburetor Cleaner. Worked very well.

The service manual warns strongly against casually spraying any
cleaning compound into the TB. The manual says to first cover the
small openings in front of the throttle plate so that no cleaner gets
into the air bypass system. If the walls of the throttle plate are
not too dirty, if the throttle plate closes completely, then don't
bother with a cleaner.

The idle speed is NOT controlled by the cleanliness of the throttle
body walls (air passes around the closed throttle plate at idle). The
idle speed is controlled automatically by the fast idle air valve
(FIAV) and by the engine control module (ECM) through the idle speed
control (ISC) servo (also referred to as the idle air control (IAC)
servo). Either the FIAV or the ISC servo could be causing your
problem. The FIAV has a wax pellet in it that changes size with the
temperature of coolant that circlates through it. The ISC servo has
stepper motors in it that can fail.

If the BISS adjustment didn't do the trick, check the FIAV, the ISC
servo, and the throttle position sensor (TPS) to be sure all these
are functioning properly. The service manual shows how to check them.
There are other devices that affect the idle speed, such as the crank
angle sensor (CAS). The Mitsu service manuals list about 20 things to
check when you have idle speed control problems. Systematically work
through the list.

DO NOT just spray a cleaner into the throttle body!

DO NOT adjust idle speed by tightening the throttle cable. Be sure
there is slack in the cable so that the ECM can control idle speed.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "CV. Duta Karya Teknik" <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 01:29 AM
Subject: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY

Should I clean the throttle body by removing it and clean parts
inside and what should I take care for cleaning the throttle body so
that whenever I reinstall it I have no problem with engine. Please
kindly advise me and thank you very much for your kindly attention.

Regards,
Mei Harijanto

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:31:47 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

My '94 VR4 hits the rev limiter (about 7200 rpm) in 3rd well below 120 mph.

Are you sure you're not talking about 4th?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard [SMTP:radanc@home.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 7:25 PM
> To: jeffv@1nce.com
> Cc: Team3s Tech List
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
>
>  I never
> > hit 6500 RPM's in 3rd because my speed exceeds 120 MPH which is where
> Gtech
> > cuts out.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:45:03 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY

Are you trying to adjust curb idle with the A/C on?  When the A/C is on, a
relay makes the idle run at 1000 rpm.  Maybe that relay is stuck.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CV. Duta Karya Teknik [SMTP:dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 1:30 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: THROTTLE BODY
>
> My car is idling at 1000 rpm and I have tried to adjust BISS so that it
> will
> be idling at 750 rpm - 800 rpm, before adjusted I grounded  a cable in the
> engine compartment as tech. manual advised. But the rpm never come to 750
> rpm it always stay at 1000 rpm.
> Should I clean the throttle body by removing it and clean parts inside and
> what should I take care for cleaning the throttle body so that whenever I
> reinstall it I have no problem with engine.
> Please kindly advise me and thank you very much for your kindly attention.
>
> Regards,
> Mei Harijanto

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:42:57 +1000
From: "Joel Singh" <joelsingh@iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Team3S: Which engine oil to use?

need advice on which engine oil to use on my 92 3000gt  TT. at the moment
i'm using magnetec 10w40 and i'm gettin a ticking noise,
When the engine is hot. I'm thinking of getting mobil 1 but not sure of
which viscocity. thanks in advance.

Joel.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:47:58 -0400
From: "Payne, Scott" <SPayne@hunton.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Yes I meant 4th gear sorry for the confusion.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:32 AM
Cc: Team3s Tech List
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

My '94 VR4 hits the rev limiter (about 7200 rpm) in 3rd well below 120 mph.

Are you sure you're not talking about 4th?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard [SMTP:radanc@home.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 7:25 PM
> To: jeffv@1nce.com
> Cc: Team3s Tech List
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Gtech- Pro
>
>  I never
> > hit 6500 RPM's in 3rd because my speed exceeds 120 MPH which is where
> Gtech
> > cuts out.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:02:47 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which engine oil to use?

depends on the weather where you live, but Mobil1 10W30 works well for me in
Texas year round and for my son in Nebraska.  there is a mountain of email
about the ticking.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Singh [SMTP:joelsingh@iprimus.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:43 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Which engine oil to use?
>
> need advice on which engine oil to use on my 92 3000gt  TT. at the moment
> i'm using magnetec 10w40 and i'm gettin a ticking noise,
> When the engine is hot. I'm thinking of getting mobil 1 but not sure of
> which viscocity. thanks in advance.
>
> Joel.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:09:40 -0700
From: "Watkins, Jim" <jim.watkins@terayon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Caliper paint

Jeff,
Did you investigate powder coating?  I have heard that it holds up better
than any other type of paint.

Jim
95 3000GT VR4 Spyder

My comments are the same as Flash's except I used Foliatec (about the
same price, maybe $40). Same "3 part" system, applied with a brush.
Painted all calipers with two coats plus the custom front plug cover
letters and that only used about half the amount supplied. Warning
though, once the paint and hardener are mixed they cannot be stored
but must be used at once. G2 caliper paint is supposed to be a
similar product.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Caliper paint

>> "Watkins, Jim" wrote:
>> Did you investigate powder coating?  I have heard that it holds
>> up better than any other type of paint.

I never considered powder coating for the calipers. I guess this
baked on paint would be an option if you gutted the calipers (took
pistons and seals out, pins, etc.), carefully protected certain
parts, and flushed all fluid out. I had my stock '92 TT wheels powder
coated (after having them straightened and trued) and was not
impressed. The powder coated paint chipped as easily as regular
paint. Perhaps the wheels were not powder coated well. The brushed on
Foliatec lacquer has held up so far, though brake fluid does tend to
dull the shine a little. This is not really noticeable since the
brake bleed nipple is on the "inside".

Some pics (no text or instructions) at new web page:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/nlucius/n-2-caliperpaint.htm

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:16:22 -0400
From: "rjmsmail@swbell.net" <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which engine oil to use?

I use what I believe is 5w30, it is Mobil-1 synthetic, the blue cap.  I think I noticed a slight sluggishness on very cold days (for Texas, might have gotten in the 20's)in just the first maybe 2-3min. of driving while warming up with the 10w30, which made me think I should probably let it idle a couple of minutes before driving it.  Anyway, I use this oil in both cars and try to change the oil every 3,000 miles or 3 months regardless.  Disclaimer: Don't get me started on the differentials/standard trans fluids 'cause I don't remember offhand, I do know I have synthetics in the Regal engine and rear end and synthetic in the 3000gt engine.
Bob
94 3000gt SL
86 Buick Regal T-Type

###########################################################################
depends on the weather where you live, but Mobil1 10W30 works well for me in
Texas year round and for my son in Nebraska.  there is a mountain of email
about the ticking.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:        Joel Singh [SMTP:joelsingh@iprimus.com.au]
> Sent:        Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:43 AM
> To:        Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject:        Team3S: Which engine oil to use?
> 
> need advice on which engine oil to use on my 92 3000gt  TT. at the moment
> i'm using magnetec 10w40 and i'm gettin a ticking noise,
> When the engine is hot. I'm thinking of getting mobil 1 but not sure of
> which viscocity. thanks in advance.
> 
> Joel.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:10:49 -0400
From: "Nickolaos M. Sgouros" <atenag@coqui.net>
Subject: Team3S: Road Dyno

Dear friends Hi
I just purchase the "Road Dyno" device and I am working to setup the unit.
Most of the information needed was found on the "manual" but I need also the
following numbers

DRAG COEFFICIENT:
FRONTAL AREA:
DRIVE TRAIN LOSS:

My car is RT TT  6 gear
Some help will be highly appreciated.

Nikos the Greek
92' RT TT
Puerto Rico

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #627
***************************************