Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Tuesday, September 25 2001  Volume 01 : Number 625




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:50:46 -0700
From: "Richard Kerrill" <rkerrill@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: SL engine problem

Hi Team3S,
I hope this doesnt sound too trivial..  but, Id love to hear from anyone
else who has had a similar experience and suggestions as far as what the
best resolutions and causes are..

The EVENT:
I was driving in the desert between LasVegas and Los Angeles -at highway
speeds- when all of a sudden an under the carriage flap noise occured with
visible white smoke pouring  out of both sides of the front wheel wells.  I
had no brakes as I realized the engine had quickly stalled out.  I came to a
rest and found smoke under the hood and looking under the car flames
starting on the exhaust in the center of the car below the engine more near
the firewall.  The flames were kept at bay pouring from a gallon of water 3
times - trying not to hit the engine block.
When all settled, (I guess I was in shock and hoping for a possible fantasy
miracle), I turned the key one more time to hear the engine turn and quickly
become what sounded like the winding of an engine belt had just slipped off.
Dead cell phone zone, Time to hike for help 30 miles away from nearest
town!.

VISUAL Inspection:
After towing and inspection, I found a hole in the upper oil pan about the
size of a baseball, at about center, towards the dashboard, just right
(passenger side) and just below the bolts holding the pan on.  I can see
some scratches inside one cylinder.  And a one inch square metal bar
horizontal at the rear end wall of the oil pan, across the bottom of the oil
pan hole.
(is this a piston rod? or a support inside the oil pan? - It didnt move at
touch.)

Q1: Is there anything other than a thrown rod that would do this?

History FACTS:
Top end was rebuilt by a dealer about 4 years ago after a timing belt
slipped? (cause unknown)  It has had a lazy lifter ever since and still
burned a quart
of oil every 1-2 months.  I added a quart of 20/50 oil just before leaving
and it may have been a bit over-filled.  About 130k miles on this '92 SL.

Q2: Is it possible anything might have gotten stuck or, punctured the oil
pan
to cause this or is it more likely just an unavoidable engine failure.??

Q3: Is it better to have someone rebuild the engine or, just replace it with
a Japanese 30k replacement??

Any recommendations for a dependable used engine would be appreciated as
well. !!

- -RichK
'92 3000GT SL white
Las Vegas, NV

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:21:38 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: SL engine problem

When my engine blew in my 91 ES I ordered a rebuilt long block from ATK
engines I think. Reasonably priced, however the engine did still have
lifter noise even though they had rebuilt it. If I had to do it again, I
would probably rebuild a different engine myself and make sure
everything was done right.

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Richard Kerrill
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:51 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: SL engine problem

Hi Team3S,
I hope this doesnt sound too trivial..  but, Id love to hear from anyone
else who has had a similar experience and suggestions as far as what the
best resolutions and causes are..

The EVENT:
I was driving in the desert between LasVegas and Los Angeles -at highway
speeds- when all of a sudden an under the carriage flap noise occured
with visible white smoke pouring  out of both sides of the front wheel
wells.  I had no brakes as I realized the engine had quickly stalled
out.  I came to a rest and found smoke under the hood and looking under
the car flames starting on the exhaust in the center of the car below
the engine more near the firewall.  The flames were kept at bay pouring
from a gallon of water 3 times - trying not to hit the engine block.
When all settled, (I guess I was in shock and hoping for a possible
fantasy miracle), I turned the key one more time to hear the engine turn
and quickly become what sounded like the winding of an engine belt had
just slipped off. Dead cell phone zone, Time to hike for help 30 miles
away from nearest town!.

VISUAL Inspection:
After towing and inspection, I found a hole in the upper oil pan about
the size of a baseball, at about center, towards the dashboard, just
right (passenger side) and just below the bolts holding the pan on.  I
can see some scratches inside one cylinder.  And a one inch square metal
bar horizontal at the rear end wall of the oil pan, across the bottom of
the oil pan hole. (is this a piston rod? or a support inside the oil
pan? - It didnt move at
touch.)

Q1: Is there anything other than a thrown rod that would do this?

History FACTS:
Top end was rebuilt by a dealer about 4 years ago after a timing belt
slipped? (cause unknown)  It has had a lazy lifter ever since and still
burned a quart of oil every 1-2 months.  I added a quart of 20/50 oil
just before leaving and it may have been a bit over-filled.  About 130k
miles on this '92 SL.

Q2: Is it possible anything might have gotten stuck or, punctured the
oil pan to cause this or is it more likely just an unavoidable engine
failure.??

Q3: Is it better to have someone rebuild the engine or, just replace it
with a Japanese 30k replacement??

Any recommendations for a dependable used engine would be appreciated as
well. !!

- -RichK
'92 3000GT SL white
Las Vegas, NV

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:57:24 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: How low of boost pressure is too low?

Jon,

I was just OTR yesterday.  Actually, I do the smae thing.  I have a ProfecB
dual solenoid boost controller with two settings.  I tool around town in the
low boost position around 9 psi (if my memory is working with 1/2 cup
coffee) and drive at the track (or such) in the second setting at 14.7 psi.

As a matter of fact, I have a little remote control for the ProfecB that you
wear on your finger so you can switch without letting go of the steering
wheel, just in case you need to smoke someone's butt.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nemisis [SMTP:nemisis@vci.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 3:24 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Re: How low of boost pressure is too low?
>
> I dont know what started the hostility..  I DO use the turbos.. it's just
> that on a regular day.. with gas up as high as it is.. I can't be getting
> less than 15mpg.  I don't see whats so wrong with wanting to save money..
> and just turn it up when you need performance.
>
> Jon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:50:09 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: (snip) STOLEN handling chart

maybe someday I will actually understand it ...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Forrest [SMTP:bf@bobforrest.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 6:39 PM
> To: 'Geoff Mohler'; Team3S
> Cc: 3sracers@speedtoys.com
> Subject: 3S-Racers: (snip) STOLEN handling chart
>
> We stole it first (from BF Goodrich at Tire Rack).  :-)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:44:09 -0400
From: "Payne, Scott" <SPayne@hunton.com>
Subject: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Just got my new toy. A GTech-pro and had a few questions.
I have a 94 Stealth Twin Turbo with K&N Fliter Charger Kit as my only mod.
I entered in a weight of 4119 lbs. That is my first question. I got this
weight from the drivers side door panel and subtracted 180 lbs per missing
passager as instructed by Gtech. This weight sounds high to me.
Second question is what HP numbers have you guys come up with? I average 275
HP according to Gtech. That sounds really low to me. Although one time it
did read 295. What method do you guys use to get HP readings from your
Gtech's? I simply accelerate to 6500 RPM's in 1st and second gear. I never
hit 6500 RPM's in 3rd because my speed exceeds 120 MPH which is where Gtech
cuts out.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:51:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cook <tektronix@linuxpower.cx>
Subject: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts

I recently had an exhaust leak between the block and exhaust
manifold.  Upon attempting to remove this the bolts that hold the manifold
to the turbo were seized up.  These bolts are the ones in a triangle
pattern.  It took well over 200 Nm of force to break them.  Finally, I
managed to get two of them free w/ a breaker bar.  However, the third one
(rear one), due to an incredible difficulty getting to it could not be
freed.  The only way to get a socket on it was to use a universal joint
(of which I broke one of them trying) and I could not get a box wrench or
other in there.  What ended up happening is the bolt head and about 1
centimeter of the shaft broke off, just above the threads.  Fortunatly, it
was low enough that I could get the manifold off and take the turbo
out.  But now I have about 4mm of shaft coming out of the turbo and I need
to get it out w/out damaging the threads on the turbo. 

Any ideas?  I really need to get this done, as I cannot put the car back
together until this is fixed.

Thanks,
  Chris Cook
1992 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:01:06 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

The weight sounds about right.  A friend of mine weighed his 91 Stealth TT
with himself, a subwoofer box and a half tank of gas and came out to 4080
lbs.  I wouldn't take the HP estimate too seriously. I doubt the GTech has a
built in correction for AWD losses.

Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Payne, Scott
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 10:44 AM
To: Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Just got my new toy. A GTech-pro and had a few questions.
I have a 94 Stealth Twin Turbo with K&N Fliter Charger Kit as my only mod.
I entered in a weight of 4119 lbs. That is my first question. I got this
weight from the drivers side door panel and subtracted 180 lbs per missing
passager as instructed by Gtech. This weight sounds high to me.
Second question is what HP numbers have you guys come up with? I average 275
HP according to Gtech. That sounds really low to me. Although one time it
did read 295. What method do you guys use to get HP readings from your
Gtech's? I simply accelerate to 6500 RPM's in 1st and second gear. I never
hit 6500 RPM's in 3rd because my speed exceeds 120 MPH which is where Gtech
cuts out.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:14:27 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gtech- Pro

Go to a moving company that has public scales for vehicles.  Pay them about
$5 and you will find out what the REAL weight is for your car.  Significant
differences will occur for you being in the car and depending how much
gasoline you have loaded in the car.  The Service manual lists the unloaded
curb weight.  I am surprised if the side panel includes a driver and
passenger.  I guestimate 3800# curb weight + 200#driver = 4000# so you are
definitely in the ball park.  Yes, 2 tons!

> I entered in a weight of 4119 lbs. That is my first question. I got this
> weight from the drivers side door panel and subtracted 180 lbs per missing
> passager as instructed by Gtech. This weight sounds high to me.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:18:58 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts

somebody posted yesterday about soaking exhaust bolts with penetrating oil
over night.  Then you are going to have to grab the remaining threaded shaft
with vise grips or maybe a pipe wrench to get them to turn. Another approach
is to carry it to a machine shop and ask them to extract it before you break
the reat of the bolt off. Good luck!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Cook [SMTP:tektronix@linuxpower.cx]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 9:51 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts
>
> I recently had an exhaust leak between the block and exhaust
> manifold.  Upon attempting to remove this the bolts that hold the manifold
> to the turbo were seized up.  These bolts are the ones in a triangle
> pattern.  It took well over 200 Nm of force to break them.  Finally, I
> managed to get two of them free w/ a breaker bar.  However, the third one
> (rear one), due to an incredible difficulty getting to it could not be
> freed.  The only way to get a socket on it was to use a universal joint
> (of which I broke one of them trying) and I could not get a box wrench or
> other in there.  What ended up happening is the bolt head and about 1
> centimeter of the shaft broke off, just above the threads.  Fortunatly, it
> was low enough that I could get the manifold off and take the turbo
> out.  But now I have about 4mm of shaft coming out of the turbo and I need
> to get it out w/out damaging the threads on the turbo. 
>
> Any ideas?  I really need to get this done, as I cannot put the car back
> together until this is fixed.
>
> Thanks,
>   Chris Cook
> 1992 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:09:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cook <tektronix@linuxpower.cx>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts

I thought about doing that.  I have the turbo off so it is easy to take
somewhere.  I'm just a little concerned about taking having someone work
on it due to a fear of having metal bits getting into it.  But that may be
the best option.

 On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> somebody posted yesterday about soaking exhaust bolts with penetrating oil
> over night.  Then you are going to have to grab the remaining threaded shaft
> with vise grips or maybe a pipe wrench to get them to turn. Another approach
> is to carry it to a machine shop and ask them to extract it before you break
> the reat of the bolt off. Good luck!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Cook [SMTP:tektronix@linuxpower.cx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 9:51 AM
> > To: Team3S
> > Subject: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts
> >
> > I recently had an exhaust leak between the block and exhaust
> > manifold.  Upon attempting to remove this the bolts that hold the manifold
> > to the turbo were seized up.  These bolts are the ones in a triangle
> > pattern.  It took well over 200 Nm of force to break them.  Finally, I
> > managed to get two of them free w/ a breaker bar.  However, the third one
> > (rear one), due to an incredible difficulty getting to it could not be
> > freed.  The only way to get a socket on it was to use a universal joint
> > (of which I broke one of them trying) and I could not get a box wrench or
> > other in there.  What ended up happening is the bolt head and about 1
> > centimeter of the shaft broke off, just above the threads.  Fortunatly, it
> > was low enough that I could get the manifold off and take the turbo
> > out.  But now I have about 4mm of shaft coming out of the turbo and I need
> > to get it out w/out damaging the threads on the turbo. 
> >
> > Any ideas?  I really need to get this done, as I cannot put the car back
> > together until this is fixed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >   Chris Cook
> > 1992 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:05:49 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts

Put a vise grips on the stud very tight, and heat the flange up very hot
(like glowing) and the stud will come right out. I simple propane torch may
not get hot enough. You might have to take it to an exhaust shop, or
someone else that has an acetylene torch...........

Wayne

At 07:51 AM 9/25/01 , Chris Cook wrote:
>  I need
>to get it out w/out damaging the threads on the turbo.
>
>Any ideas?  I really need to get this done, as I cannot put the car back
>together until this is fixed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:17:57 -0400
From: "Steve Johnson" <sjohnson@bnfl-ettp.com>
Subject: Team3S: More Brake problems

I am the proud owner of a 1997 3000GTSL. Beautiful car, except for the
brakes. The OEM front rotors suck. They started giving the shake and
bake at about 20,000 miles. I had them turned and that only lasted about
two or three days and the shakes came back. Turned then again, and I am
very careful about the wheel torque(90# or so), but nothing seems to
help.
I have looked over many of the emails on this site and see that brake
problems, especially front, are common. Several guys posted after market
replacements but I cannot pay $2000! Isn't there a good replacement
rotor out there for under $200? I don't race. The car is just for
crusin' and lookin' at, but the shaking is awful, especially hard
braking.
HELP!
Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:16:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cook <tektronix@linuxpower.cx>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts

I've got a propane torch, an acetylene (MAPP) torch and a OXY-MAPP
(Oxy-acetylene)  I figure I can use the MAPP torch and heat it up, but my
concern was damaging the turbos as there is no oil in it right now because
its disconnected.  Should the heat from this cause a problem?

Thanks again,
  Chris

 On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Wayne wrote:

> Put a vise grips on the stud very tight, and heat the flange up very hot
> (like glowing) and the stud will come right out. I simple propane torch may
> not get hot enough. You might have to take it to an exhaust shop, or
> someone else that has an acetylene torch...........
>
> Wayne
>
> At 07:51 AM 9/25/01 , Chris Cook wrote:
> >  I need
> >to get it out w/out damaging the threads on the turbo.
> >
> >Any ideas?  I really need to get this done, as I cannot put the car back
> >together until this is fixed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:42:50 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Exhaust manifold/turbo bolts

As long as you keep the heat on the flange away from the center cartridge
of the turbo, it won't hurt it. Turbos often glow red when running on the
car anyway.....

Wayne

At 09:16 AM 9/25/01 , Chris Cook wrote:
>I've got a propane torch, an acetylene (MAPP) torch and a OXY-MAPP
>(Oxy-acetylene)  I figure I can use the MAPP torch and heat it up, but my
>concern was damaging the turbos as there is no oil in it right now because
>its disconnected.  Should the heat from this cause a problem?
>
>Thanks again,
>   Chris
>
>  On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Wayne wrote:
>
> > Put a vise grips on the stud very tight, and heat the flange up very hot
> > (like glowing) and the stud will come right out. I simple propane torch
> may
> > not get hot enough. You might have to take it to an exhaust shop, or
> > someone else that has an acetylene torch...........
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > At 07:51 AM 9/25/01 , Chris Cook wrote:
> > >  I need
> > >to get it out w/out damaging the threads on the turbo.
> > >
> > >Any ideas?  I really need to get this done, as I cannot put the car back
> > >together until this is fixed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:57:47 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Doh!
I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
Any suggestions?

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White R/T TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)

Geoff Mohler wrote:

> I have a set of rear SS lines for any 3/S car available for $80+ship.
>
> Any takers?  Sitting here at the house ready for an envelope.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:19:39 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

On this thread, Andie Lim made some disparaging remarks about the longevity
of ss brake lines.  Anybody else experience any problems with these? I would
think they have at least got to be better than 10 year old rubber lines.

Chuck
(All my brake lines are stainless X 3 cars X 4 years)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:15:57 -0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

I would like to ask: what is your reason for installing SS braided brake
hoses on your car?

Regards,

Andie Lin

andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.com
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

::-----Original Message-----
::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Ken Stanton
::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:58 PM
::Cc: team3s@team3s.com
::Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
::
::Doh!
::I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
::Any suggestions?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:15:51 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: Team3S: OT!!  FW: 3000/Stealth Coffee Table Book

For those of us that would like to have a coffee table book about OUR
cars for a change!! Please read this FW email and send your request to

barbara@brooklands-books.com (Barbara Cleveland)

I already sent my huge email. This is pretty much an email campaign,
it's all in the FW'ed email, so please read it if interested. Thanks!

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: sean [mailto:sjohnson@exitech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:36 AM
To: stealth@stls.verio.net
Subject: 3000/Stealth Coffee Table Book

Hey guys. A friend of mine from the Conquest TSi Club had a
Conquest/Starion Coffee Table Book made. He now owns a 93 VR4 and wants
to have a book made for our cars. Here's the info & the 3SI thread.

3000/Stealth coffee table book
How many people would be interested in having a 136 page coffee table
book dedicated to the 3000/Stealth?
Those of that are in the StarQuest community as well as the 3si
community had to go thru an e-mail campain to "sales@brooklands.com" to
convince them there was a void in thier list of books and there were
enough interested people to make the book worthwhile. You can go to
"www.brooklands.com" to see what they have available.
Well I have received my copy of the StarQuest book and it was definately
worth the 6 months it took to produce it.
It took at least 200 of us commiting to start the process. The 3si
community is much larger than the StarQuest community so I see no reason
why we can't get this done.
Who wants one?
Here is the reply from Brooklands when we started the StarQuest book.
Sorry for the long post.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subj: Starion Book
Date: 1/8/01 9:04:49 AM Central Standard Time
From: barbara@brooklands-books.com (barbara Cleveland)
Dear Starion Enthusiasts
We loved getting your e-mails. Yes, we have enough material and we could
do a book on the Starion/Conquest. However, we need to be careful that
we do not loose the Brookland's corporate shirt. I can see that you guys
have a Club. However, do you sell books through your Club? If you do, do
you think you could buy upon publication 200 copies of such a book? The
US price would be $19.95, less approximately 40% discount (plus shipping
costs). If you could take 200 copies we would produce one of our
Performance Portfolios (140 pages). If, howev er, you could only take
100 copies, we would have to be more modest and produce a Limited
Edition (92 pages). We would print 2000 copies of the Performance
Portfolio, but only 1000 of a Limited Edition.
Other help that we would like is a few good photographs for our front
and back covers.
How about that for a positive response!
Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
John Dowdeswell
http://209.58.199.225/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=46578&goto=newpost
Sean

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:23:07 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Well,

I don't want to upgrade to Big Reds (calipers), too much $.
The car is 10 years old, the rubber isn't bad, but aging.
I want to get the maximum brake response, to match the mods that make me go
faster.
I'm pulling off the calipers to paint them, and flushing the fluid (10 years
old) so, can't be a better time!

That's my reasons =)

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White R/T TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)

"Andie W. Lin" wrote:

> I would like to ask: what is your reason for installing SS braided brake
> hoses on your car?
>
> Regards,
>
> Andie Lin
>
> andie w lin
> vp marketing and product r&d
> carbotech engineering
> http://www.carbotecheng.com
> tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
>
> ::-----Original Message-----
> ::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> ::Of Ken Stanton
> ::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:58 PM
> ::Cc: team3s@team3s.com
> ::Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> ::
> ::Doh!
> ::I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
> ::Any suggestions?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:20:06 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: Team3S: OT!! FW: 3000/Stealth Coffee Table Book

Here is another email addy for you're response, I sent mine to both to
make sure they got it.

sales@brooklands-books.com

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: sean [mailto:sjohnson@exitech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 6:51 AM
To: stealth@stls.verio.net
Subject: RE: 3000/Stealth Coffee Table Book

Response is looking good.

Don't forget that this is also an E-mail campain to Brooklands to show
them there is enough interest to justify printing the book.

Send E-mail requesting they make the book to:

"barbara@brooklands-books.com" or "sales@brooklands-books.com"

thanks

Sean
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Elkin [mailto:markelkin@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 9:00 AM
To: stealth@stls.verio.net
Subject: RE: 3000/Stealth Coffee Table Book

For $20.00, count me in!

Mark
'96 VR-4
'97 YZF 600R
- -----Original Message-----
From: sean [mailto:sjohnson@exitech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 8:36 AM
To: stealth@stls.verio.net
Subject: 3000/Stealth Coffee Table Book

Hey guys. A friend of mine from the Conquest TSi Club had a
Conquest/Starion Coffee Table Book made. He now owns a 93 VR4 and wants
to have a book made for our cars. Here's the info & the 3SI thread.

3000/Stealth coffee table book
How many people would be interested in having a 136 page coffee table
book dedicated to the 3000/Stealth?
Those of that are in the StarQuest community as well as the 3si
community had to go thru an e-mail campain to "sales@brooklands.com" to
convince them there was a void in thier list of books and there were
enough interested people to make the book worthwhile. You can go to
"www.brooklands.com" to see what they have available.
Well I have received my copy of the StarQuest book and it was definately
worth the 6 months it took to produce it.
It took at least 200 of us commiting to start the process. The 3si
community is much larger than the StarQuest community so I see no reason
why we can't get this done.
Who wants one?
Here is the reply from Brooklands when we started the StarQuest book.
Sorry for the long post.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subj: Starion Book
Date: 1/8/01 9:04:49 AM Central Standard Time
From: barbara@brooklands-books.com (barbara Cleveland)
Dear Starion Enthusiasts
We loved getting your e-mails. Yes, we have enough material and we could
do a book on the Starion/Conquest. However, we need to be careful that
we do not loose the Brookland's corporate shirt. I can see that you guys
have a Club. However, do you sell books through your Club? If you do, do
you think you could buy upon publication 200 copies of such a book? The
US price would be $19.95, less approximately 40% discount (plus shipping
costs). If you could take 200 copies we would produce one of our
Performance Portfolios (140 pages). If, howev er, you could only take
100 copies, we would have to be more modest and produce a Limited
Edition (92 pages). We would print 2000 copies of the Performance
Portfolio, but only 1000 of a Limited Edition.
Other help that we would like is a few good photographs for our front
and back covers.
How about that for a positive response!
Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
John Dowdeswell
http://209.58.199.225/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=46578&goto=newpost
Sean

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Brake problems

I wholesale porterfield brakes & rotors (which actually supports the
team3s site and servers).

If you have any questions..please feel free to ask.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Steve Johnson wrote:

> I am the proud owner of a 1997 3000GTSL. Beautiful car, except for the
> brakes. The OEM front rotors suck. They started giving the shake and
> bake at about 20,000 miles. I had them turned and that only lasted about
> two or three days and the shakes came back. Turned then again, and I am
> very careful about the wheel torque(90# or so), but nothing seems to
> help.
> I have looked over many of the emails on this site and see that brake
> problems, especially front, are common. Several guys posted after market
> replacements but I cannot pay $2000! Isn't there a good replacement
> rotor out there for under $200? I don't race. The car is just for
> crusin' and lookin' at, but the shaking is awful, especially hard
> braking.
> HELP!
> Steve

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:43:00 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Ken,

I'm assuming you are rebuilding the calipers while you have them off for
painting.  This is a great time to stiffen up the lines.  Oh yeah, go with
Motul 600!

Chuck

" The car is 10 years old, the rubber isn't bad, but aging.
> I want to get the maximum brake response, to match the mods that make me
> go
> faster.
> I'm pulling off the calipers to paint them, and flushing the fluid (10
> years
> old) so, can't be a better time! "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:34:27 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Rebuild the calipers?  What do you mean?

Ken

"Willis, Charles E." wrote:

> Ken,
>
> I'm assuming you are rebuilding the calipers while you have them off for
> painting.  This is a great time to stiffen up the lines.  Oh yeah, go with
> Motul 600!
>
> Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:46:41 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: More Brake problems

> I have looked over many of the emails on this site and see that brake
> problems, especially front, are common. Several guys posted after market
> replacements but I cannot pay $2000! Isn't there a good replacement
> rotor out there for under $200?  [Willis, Charles E.]  each?
[Willis, Charles E.]  Yes, even replacement OEM rotors.
[Willis, Charles E.]  Actually, there are numerous reports of a
fitment problem between the hub and the inside edge of the rotor on 2nd gen
VR4's but I don't know if this applies to SL's.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

$185 shipped for a brand new full set.  $175 was the GP deal about 2
months ago.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton wrote:

> Doh!
> I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Ken Stanton
> '91 Pearl White R/T TT
> Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
>
> Geoff Mohler wrote:
>
> > I have a set of rear SS lines for any 3/S car available for $80+ship.
> >
> > Any takers?  Sitting here at the house ready for an envelope.

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:52:08 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

I mean ... you remove the dust boots and retaining rings from the pistons,
you use compressed air to pop the pistons out of the caliper with a piece of
wood between them and a c-clamp to hold each one in place after it pops out
until all four are loose, and you remove the seal from each piston and you
clean it out and clean each piston with a scotch brite pad and you but new
seals on the pistons and attach new dust boots and put the pistons back in
the caliper body and then attach the new retaining rings.

You know?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Stanton [SMTP:tt007ken@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:34 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: team3s@team3s.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> Rebuild the calipers?  What do you mean?
>
> Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:53:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Ive heard of -one- failure of a line on one of my lists..ever.

Anything CAN fail.  Is it a SS line issue..no, its probly more like a 1 in
100,000 improper assembly issue by the manufacturer..or installation..who
knows.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> On this thread, Andie Lim made some disparaging remarks about the longevity
> of ss brake lines.  Anybody else experience any problems with these? I would
> think they have at least got to be better than 10 year old rubber lines.
>
> Chuck
> (All my brake lines are stainless X 3 cars X 4 years)

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:40:12 -0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

I actually use SS braided hoses on my NSX.  However, I feel that it is
necessary to inspect these brake hoses regularly, which I do at least once a
month for street driving, and before/during/after every track event.

The only real advantage in terms of performance that a SS braided hose
offers is a firmer pedal feel.  The SS braiding is there to protect the
teflon core from road debris and such flying object as can  be confronted on
a racing circuit, but not as common on the street.  However, if the hose is
not covered on the outside by a silicon or rubber sheath, tiny particles of
dust and dirt can worth their way under the SS braiding and become lodged
between the SS braiding and the teflon core.  Suspension movement will
eventually cause the dirt and dust particules to "eat away" and abrade the
very fragile teflon core, potentially leading to a rupture.

Thus, with regards to "disparaging statgement" about SS braided hoses, my
only statement is this:  If you inspect your hoses regularly, then you can
use SS braided hoses...if you do not or are not willing to do so, then stick
with OEM rubber hoses.

Now, to replicate the firmer pedal feel that a SS braided hose offers, you
can simply put zip tires around the OEM rubber hoses every 1" along the
length of the hose.  This keeps the hose from swelling under hard brake
pedal application; Cost: $5 for a bag of 100 from Home Depot.

andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.com
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

P.S.  SS braided lines DO look killer, especially with -AN alloy fittings.
:-)


::-----Original Message-----
::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Willis, Charles E.
::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:20 PM
::To: 'Ken Stanton'
::Cc: team3s@team3s.com
::Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
::
::On this thread, Andie Lim made some disparaging remarks about the
::longevity
::of ss brake lines.  Anybody else experience any problems with
::these? I would
::think they have at least got to be better than 10 year old rubber lines.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Reduced sagging of brake pedal, a more positive feeling of braking, more
braking feedback to name a few.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Andie W. Lin wrote:

> I would like to ask: what is your reason for installing SS braided brake
> hoses on your car?
>
> Regards,
>
> Andie Lin
>
> andie w lin
> vp marketing and product r&d
> carbotech engineering
> http://www.carbotecheng.com
> tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
>
> ::-----Original Message-----
> ::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> ::Of Ken Stanton
> ::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:58 PM
> ::Cc: team3s@team3s.com
> ::Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> ::
> ::Doh!
> ::I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
> ::Any suggestions?

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:56:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

If you want better braking DONT paint the calipers.

Calipers are a soft dull metal so they radiate heat better.  Painting them
insulates them a little..which doesnt help your brake fluid any.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton wrote:

> Well,
>
> I don't want to upgrade to Big Reds (calipers), too much $.
> The car is 10 years old, the rubber isn't bad, but aging.
> I want to get the maximum brake response, to match the mods that make me go
> faster.
> I'm pulling off the calipers to paint them, and flushing the fluid (10 years
> old) so, can't be a better time!
>
> That's my reasons =)
>
> Ken Stanton
> '91 Pearl White R/T TT
> Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
>
> "Andie W. Lin" wrote:
>
> > I would like to ask: what is your reason for installing SS braided brake
> > hoses on your car?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Andie Lin
> >
> > andie w lin
> > vp marketing and product r&d
> > carbotech engineering
> > http://www.carbotecheng.com
> > tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
> >
> > ::-----Original Message-----
> > ::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > ::Of Ken Stanton
> > ::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:58 PM
> > ::Cc: team3s@team3s.com
> > ::Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> > ::
> > ::Doh!
> > ::I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
> > ::Any suggestions?

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Hey ya!  I sell that too!

On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> Ken,
>
> I'm assuming you are rebuilding the calipers while you have them off for
> painting.  This is a great time to stiffen up the lines.  Oh yeah, go with
> Motul 600!
>
> Chuck
>
> " The car is 10 years old, the rubber isn't bad, but aging.
> > I want to get the maximum brake response, to match the mods that make me
> > go
> > faster.
> > I'm pulling off the calipers to paint them, and flushing the fluid (10
> > years
> > old) so, can't be a better time! "
> >

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:44:26 -0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

I'm going to side in part with Geoff here.  I've seen a few failiures (I can
count them on one hand...so not a TON, by any means.), but all it takes is
one failure to send you off the road or into a wall at 120mph.

I have personally had two failures...a lot depends on the car.  If the
suspension travels in such a way that it puts a lot of stress on the hoses,
then you will be more prone to failure.

I do NOT have personal hands-on experience with the 3000GT when it comes to
brake lines, so I'll defer to Geoff and other members of the list (who
actually own the car) on this one, when it comes to specifics.

To protect my SS hoses, I have them shrink wrap some tubing around the SS
braiding to keep out dust and debris, and then also, I split a thick
silicone tube and put it over the hoses with zip ties in order to provide a
buffer against high-speed road debris.  This has worked very well for me,
and helps to prolong the life of the SS braided hoses.

andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.com
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

::-----Original Message-----
::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Geoff Mohler
::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:52 PM
::To: Ken Stanton
::Cc: team3s@team3s.com
::Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
::
::$185 shipped for a brand new full set.  $175 was the GP deal about 2
::months ago.
::
::On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton wrote:
::
::> Doh!
::> I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
::> Any suggestions?
::>
::> Ken Stanton
::> '91 Pearl White R/T TT
::> Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
::>
::> Geoff Mohler wrote:
::>
::> > I have a set of rear SS lines for any 3/S car available for $80+ship.
::> >
::> > Any takers?  Sitting here at the house ready for an envelope.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:56:58 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S

Yeah, only problem I had was when REMOVING one of the lines from my spare
set of calipers (to have it painted) and I broke the connection, then
proceeded to break off a tap in it, then tried to drill it out and managed
to destroy a caliper body, unless I can figure out how to helicore it or
something.  A..hole machinist turned me away.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:54 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: 'Ken Stanton'; team3s@team3s.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> Ive heard of -one- failure of a line on one of my lists..ever.
>
> Anything CAN fail.  Is it a SS line issue..no, its probly more like a 1 in
> 100,000 improper assembly issue by the manufacturer..or installation..who
> knows.
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>
> > On this thread, Andie Lim made some disparaging remarks about the
> longevity
> > of ss brake lines.  Anybody else experience any problems with these? I
> would
> > think they have at least got to be better than 10 year old rubber lines.
> >
> > Chuck
> > (All my brake lines are stainless X 3 cars X 4 years)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #625
***************************************