Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Monday, September 17 2001  Volume 01 : Number 614




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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:58:15 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rear Strut Tower Brace with Manual Glass Sunroof

Ever since I can remember (3+ years), it's been repeated ad nauseam
in the 3/S community that rear strut tower bars are only for NA cars or for
TT cars with either the power sunroof or no sunroof.  I've also heard many
owners of TT cars with the glass, removable sunroof complaining about the
fact that the sunroof brackets prevent the use of a rear strut tower bar.  I
have a '95 VR-4 with a glass sunroof and I, too, have been lamenting the
fact that my once-useful (on my previous base model) Cusco strut tower now
sits on a shelf in my garage since I like the option of removing my roof on
the 2.7 sunny days a year we get in the Seattle area.
So who started the rumor that you can't have a rear strut tower
brace if you have sunroof brackets?  
I was feeling curious the other night, so I popped the plastic
covers off of the sunroof brackets and took a look at the upper shock bolts
and bracket placement.  It *looked* like it might fit, so I went ahead and
tried installing the brackets for the strut tower brace.  45 minutes later,
I had a completely installed rear strut tower bar AND the sunroof brackets
installed.  The bar does not interfere with the sunroof brackets and I
tested this by putting my sunroof in the trunk - it fits nicely.  The only
tools I needed were:  14mm and 13mm 6-pt deep sockets, a 14mm 6-pt socket, a
socket U-joint, 14mm wrench, #2 and #3 Phillips screwdrivers, 3/8" socket
wrench, a 3" socket extension (and a cheater bar - optional).  No other
panel removal necessary.  See pictures:

http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GT/RearStrutBar/RearStrutBar.html

- --Erik
'95 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:36:59 -0400
From: "Volthause" <volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Dented oil pan?

The car should hold around 5 quarts with a new oil filter. (i think)

- -Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4 (for sale)


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <geordon@voyager.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:14 AM
Subject: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

> I finally became educated about synthetic oil, and did my first oil
> change on my '92 Stealth R/T TT. I drained a quart, added a quart of
> Gunk engine flush, idled for 7 or 8 minutes, then removed the drain
> plug and oil filter. All I got out was 2 more quarts (including oil
> from the filter)! The oil level on the stick looked fine before I
> started. I lowered my jack in the front and raised the rear corner to
> see if that would help. Still no big rush of oil. I turned the motor
> over a couple of times, but no luck. I even let the car just sit on
> all four on my nearly-level garage pad for a while.
>
> So I filled a new filter with Mobil 1 10W30, replaced the plug, and
> poured in 3 quarts of new oil. It now looks like my oil level is high
> on the stick. My oil pressure is now usually between half and 2/3 on
> the gauge. I am nervous about running too long in this condition, as I
> probably have 3 quarts of Mobil 1, 2 quarts of Valvoline dino, and an
> unknown amount of Gunk running through my engine.
>
> Can anyone offer any advise on what I should do now?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geordon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:38:14 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: xenon drop-ins

Basic electrical theory controls voltage, amperage, resistance, and wattage
in DC circuits.

E (voltage) = I (amperage) x R (resistance)

W (watts) = I (amperage) x E (volts)

Just do the math.

Consider what the effect is if a 12 volt battery is put into a 6 volt
system. Do we need bigger wire? No - because the resistors stay the same, we
actually draw half the current and the wiring is actually oversized.

On the other hand, if you reduce resistance by putting in higher wattage
bulbs you allow more current to draw through the original wires. The wires
are thus undersized and function as long resistors. Voltage measured at the
light filiments will be lower by some percentage. It probably will not
effect the amount of light generated, but it means that heat is being
disipated in the wires themselves. This is not a good thing. There is a
margin of safety built into the original wiring design. Most wires only
carry about half the current they are designed to carry at their maximum,
but I agree with Geoff. It is not wise to put in higher wattage bulbs
without giving due consideration to what this is going to do to the wiring,
the battery draw, the charging system, and the fuses.

Good Luck.  Andy Woll

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:42:24 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Completely drain and refill the system two more times including replaceing
the filter. Its expensive, but the only way I know to really be pretty sure
all the oil is really synthetic.

Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:57:49 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Well, my guess is that most of the oil was up in the engine!  If you shut
it off and immediately drained the oil, I'm sure you had at least a quart
up in there...
Typically, I let the car cool for 20-30 mins before doing a change, or, if
its cold, I'll warm it for 2-3 mins to soften up the oil, then sit it for
another 5-10.
Hope this helps!

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White R/T TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)

geordon@voyager.net wrote:

> I finally became educated about synthetic oil, and did my first oil
> change on my '92 Stealth R/T TT. I drained a quart, added a quart of
> Gunk engine flush, idled for 7 or 8 minutes, then removed the drain
> plug and oil filter. All I got out was 2 more quarts (including oil
> from the filter)! The oil level on the stick looked fine before I
> started. I lowered my jack in the front and raised the rear corner to
> see if that would help. Still no big rush of oil. I turned the motor
> over a couple of times, but no luck. I even let the car just sit on
> all four on my nearly-level garage pad for a while.
>
> So I filled a new filter with Mobil 1 10W30, replaced the plug, and
> poured in 3 quarts of new oil. It now looks like my oil level is high
> on the stick. My oil pressure is now usually between half and 2/3 on
> the gauge. I am nervous about running too long in this condition, as I
> probably have 3 quarts of Mobil 1, 2 quarts of Valvoline dino, and an
> unknown amount of Gunk running through my engine.
>
> Can anyone offer any advise on what I should do now?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geordon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:12:02 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Neither my '93 VR4 nor my son's two '93VR4s  nor my '94VR4 has EVER held
more than 4 quarts of oil with a new filter change.  All the oil just
doesn't come out.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Volthause [SMTP:volt@vozuluzov.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 1:37 PM
> To: 3000GT
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!
>
> Dented oil pan?
>
> The car should hold around 5 quarts with a new oil filter. (i think)
>
> -Scott Holthausen
> '94 VR4 (for sale)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:01:49 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Correct.  I can't comment on how hot or cold the car is supposed to be but
on out TT cars there is an oil cooler, two turbos, an engine, and an oil pan
for this stuff to run through.  Perhaps it is up in the engine and oil
cooler and oil hoses to and from the turbos.

It also might be an error in measuring the oil on the dipstick.  I can pull
my dipstick out (yes, in public <grin>) and on one side it will read low but
on the other side it is above the mark.  I think this is scraping against
part of the tube when I extract it and giving bad readings.  I now do it
with the engine running and put the dipstick in and quickly seat it and then
remove it before oil can get splashed up the stick.  This gives a good
reading.

The last time I was getting the famous ticking sound I measured the oil and
it was showing near the bottom of the marks.  I had to put in one full quart
before it rose off this mark.  Strange.  So it was actually a quart low and
not near low.  One more full quart and it was just a hair under the top
mark.

If you aren't driving it then you can overfill it.  Put in three quarts and
drain so you will get five quarts (including filter) and then you will be
happy perhaps.  Just drain out the extra before you start it up.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Stanton
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 2:58 PM

Well, my guess is that most of the oil was up in the engine!  If you shut
it off and immediately drained the oil, I'm sure you had at least a quart
up in there...
Typically, I let the car cool for 20-30 mins before doing a change, or, if
its cold, I'll warm it for 2-3 mins to soften up the oil, then sit it for
another 5-10.
Hope this helps!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:55:09 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: xenon drop-ins

> It is not wise to put in higher wattage bulbs
>without giving due consideration to what this is going to do to the wiring,
>the battery draw, the charging system, and the fuses.
>
When we ran a Pro rally car, we had six 100W lamps up front. Four were
sealed-beam aircraft landing lights, and two were 10-in. Marchal 100W
iodine-quartz driving lights. We lit up the night.

I worked for an engineering firm at the time, so we knew enough to wire
every single lamp directly from a rugged industrial switch panel, and to
fuse each lamp separately. Other competitors who tried to tie into the
stock Datsun 510 headlight wiring system -- even with separate relays --
often found themselves at the side of the road, patching their electrics at
3:00 a.m. Other than running down the battery with our stock Datsun 45 A
alternator, we had no problem with our electrics. We installed a 70 A
alternator and fixed the run-down problem. We also ran two #2 cables (one
positive, one negative) from the rear-mounted battery to avoid rusting out
the frame.

Let there be light.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:04:29 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: xenon drop-ins

> Basic electrical theory controls voltage, amperage,
> resistance, and wattage in DC circuits.
>
> E (voltage) = I (amperage) x R (resistance)
>
> W (watts) = I (amperage) x E (volts)
>
> Just do the math.

Looks OK so far (but typically one uses V for voltage).  I agree with your
ending conclusion that you should not significantly increase the wattage of
a device without checking/enlarging the wires that feed it, but some of your
logic isn't right...

> Consider what the effect is if a 12 volt battery is put
> into a 6 volt system. Do we need bigger wire?

> No - because the resistors  stay the same, we actually
> draw half the current and the wiring is actually oversized.

Actually, yes, because I = V/R.  Double the voltage, and you double the
current.  Looking at the wires, they have some resistance, R ( hopefully
much smaller than the load resistance) - we'll call it Rw.  Looking at the
voltage drop over the wire, Vw = I x Rw.  Thus, if you keep the wire the
same and double the current, its voltage drop will double as well.  To
maintain the same voltage at the load, you need to find a wire with 1/2 the
resistance of the original wire.  This would require a larger wire.

> On the other hand, if you reduce resistance by putting in
> higher wattage bulbs you allow more current to draw through
> the original wires.

Yes.

> The wires are thus undersized and function as long resistors.

They're *always* resistors :-)  It's just whether their resistance is large
enough to worry about.  As you increase voltage/current, a lower-resistance
wire is needed.

> Voltage measured at the light filiments will be lower by some percentage.

Because of the increased current, yes.

> It probably will not effect the amount of light generated,
> but it means that heat is being disipated in the wires themselves.

If the voltage drop is significant, you will notice it.  i.e. Geoff's
Cherokee example.  The heating of the wires is simply due to the increased
current in the wire.  Additionally, heated wires have increased electrical
resistance which makes them dissipate even more energy (usually as heat).

> This is not a good thing.

Agreed =)

- --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:06:14 -0700
From: "Darc" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

I replied privately to this post originally, but thought it prudent to post
again here for future reference.

Something is obviously amiss in this situation. By your statement you are
running the car with some  oil flush still in it...which is contrary to the
directions on the label. Genrally such products  sayt o run the engine
without a load for a short designated period of time and then drain the oil
compleltely. As it did not completely drain, there is a blockage of some
sort. Over filling  as you've noted  is also not a good idea. So, if it were
me,  I would drain it again...or partially drain off one quart and add
another oil flush, follow directions,  and hope this time the blockage
(turbo lines??) is cleaned out when  I drain. Don't drive it with the flush
product in and insure it is drained before you do. I t sounds like the years
of dino oil use have baked and gunked up somewhere. Needs to flushed out
thoroughly.

Best.

Darc

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:07:51 -0400
From: "Volthause" <volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Well, 4 or 5.  Either way, that's more than two.  Now that I think about
it... I buy Mobil 1 in the 6 pack containers and I've always got two bottles
left over after an oil  change that go in the hatch...

- -Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4 (for sale)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles E. <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: 3000GT <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

> Neither my '93 VR4 nor my son's two '93VR4s  nor my '94VR4 has EVER held
> more than 4 quarts of oil with a new filter change.  All the oil just
> doesn't come out.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Volthause [SMTP:volt@vozuluzov.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 1:37 PM
> > To: 3000GT
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!
> >
> > Dented oil pan?
> >
> > The car should hold around 5 quarts with a new oil filter. (i think)
> >
> > -Scott Holthausen
> > '94 VR4 (for sale)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:34:22 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

> It also might be an error in measuring the oil on the
> dipstick.  I can pull my dipstick out (yes, in public <grin>)
> and on one side it will read low but on the other side it is
> above the mark.  I think this is scraping against part of the
> tube when I extract it and giving bad readings.  I now do it
> with the engine running and put the dipstick in and quickly
> seat it and then remove it before oil can get splashed up the
> stick.  This gives a good reading.

It actually gives a terrible reading if you are measuring with the engine
running.  The mark on the dipstick is supposed to measure oil including the
amount drained back down from the heads.  If you measure with the motor
running, there's probably a good quart or so sloshing around in the heads
and turbo feed/return lines that isn't being measured - so if you fill it at
that point you've got too much oil.  Too much will cause the crank to slosh
a lot more through the oil in the pan and get air bubbles in the oil (and
reduce horsepower which I doubt is what any of us are looking to do).  Air
bubbles in the oil can cause problems with the lifters, among other things.

Don't do it that way...

> If you aren't driving it then you can overfill it.  Put in
> three quarts and drain so you will get five quarts (including
> filter) and then you will be happy perhaps.  Just drain out
> the extra before you start it up.

No, don't overfill it - even if you aren't running it.  If you manage to
fill it up to the crank seals (which aren't much beyond the regular "full"
line) then it can seep past the seals and cause you other problems that you
really don't need.

I usually do have to put in very nearly 5 quarts when I change oil and
filter (which I do both every 3000 miles).  Don't run the motor before you
change it (or at least give it 30 minutes to drain as much oil back into the
pan as possible).  Running the oil to "soften it up" only pumps it back into
the heads and oil cooler.  The last time you ran the car the oil was hot and
is now as drained down as it can get if the car has cooled - there's no
point in redoing that.  You should get pretty close to 4.5-5 quarts out each
time (remember to measure the oil in the filter too).  Dump in about 4.5
quarts of new oil, run the motor for about 30 seconds to fill the oil filter
and all that, then check the oil after 20-30 minutes and add oil as
necessary to get to the full line, figuring that its about 1 quart from the
bottom limit line to the full line.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:41:48 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Thanks, Dr. Matt.  I get horrendous readings when the engine is cold and car
sitting on level ground.  I had local open track driver John Christian check
this and he suggested the dunking technique.  Now I might do it when I turn
off the engine at the gas station or with it running or cold but I have to
do the quick-dunking method rather than slowly extracting it.  Don't know if
anyone else sees this problem but my car does not burn oil much so I don't
worry about it dropping below Low since filling it to High an running for
3k-10k miles doesn't let it drop below Low so no problems there.

We all have our own unique ways of dealing with the car's oddities.  Mine
was more of a suggestion to get his results (to get 5 quarts to come out you
put 5 quarts in not enough to get it to full and then drain again since this
will ONLY be the oil pan and not the oil cooler, oil lines, etc.).

- --Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:51:26 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

> We all have our own unique ways of dealing with the car's
> oddities.  Mine was more of a suggestion to get his results
> (to get 5 quarts to come out you put 5 quarts in not enough
> to get it to full and then drain again since this will ONLY
> be the oil pan and not the oil cooler, oil lines, etc.).

There really shouldn't be any oddities with reading the dipstick.  Sure, you
might get a little oil on the edges of the stick from the dipstick tube, but
the reading in the center of the flat portion should be consistent every
time.  I suppose if you've got way too much oil in there and the oil is
climbing into the dipstick tube it wouldn't be accurate anymore.

I dunno, check your oil level however you want I guess.

Sometimes I wonder why I even post here anymore.  Nobody listens.

???

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:01:53 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Oh we listen but next time we are at a gathering together you can watch how
I check it and then do it yourself.  I'm telling you.  I can do it at a
snail's pace, jackrabbit pace, car on, car off.  I don't get good readings
without the quick-dunk method.  On one side of the dipstick (flattened part)
it reads either Low or below Low but on the opposite side it reads over the
High mark.  I'll take pictures sometime but the camera does not zoom in far
enough for details.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:35:11 -0400
From: "rjmsmail@swbell.net" <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Same thing for me, I have to put the dipstick in fairly fast (engine off of course), wait about 2 sec. and pull it straight out and quickly read it, don't remember which side off hand is accurate, but that's what works for me.  I don't have a VR4 though (1994 3000gt SL). 
Bob


Oh we listen but next time we are at a gathering together you can watch
how
I check it and then do it yourself.  I'm telling you.  I can do it at a
snail's pace, jackrabbit pace, car on, car off.  I don't get good
readings
without the quick-dunk method.  On one side of the dipstick (flattened
part)
it reads either Low or below Low but on the opposite side it reads over
the
High mark.  I'll take pictures sometime but the camera does not zoom in
far
enough for details.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:12:21 -0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

There is only one way to read a dipstick (as Matt already correctly stated).  It
is simple, shut the engine off (the heads drainback remarkably quick if oil is
normal operating temp) insert a wiped dry dipstick until it seats and then
remove it (try to take a reading on level ground).  It is quite likely one side
of the dipstick may show artifically high, ignore that side.  Look at the other
side, remember a dipstick can never read a lower oil fill level than you
actually have, only higher.  So go with the lowest reading you find.

Taking a reading while the engine is running is laughable.

About oil changes, most recommend to run the engine to normal operating temps
and drain immediately (without burning yourself).  By running the engine, the
oil mixes with all the small particles that may otherwise settle out with time.
The hoter the oil, the faster it will drain out giving it the best chance of
bringing debris in the sump with it.  The film of oil left in the oil pan will
also be thinner if the oil is hot (the heads will drainback well before you're
ready to re-install the drain plug and the main gallery will drain out when you
remove the filter if it hasn't already.  The only item that is hard to get the
oil to drain from is the oil cooler.

Later,
Joe G.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:31:54 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

> Taking a reading while the engine is running is laughable.

Taking an oil dipstick reading while the car is running is NOT a laughable
matter since this was the only way I was getting anywhere close to accurate
readings.  I'm sorry I brought up the idea but thinking outside the box is
what the list needs sometimes.  I KNOW how to read a manual and take an oil
reading as that is how you do it on every other car I've done that to.  What
you guys are suggesting is just what the manual says and it is just like
regurgitating it back to me (thanks though for the reinforcement).  Just
that I was soliciting for other solutions around it or if others experienced
the same thing.  So far there has been at least one more person who says he
experiences that.

Maybe this was back when the engine oil was 2 quarts low and the reading was
minimal so no matter what I did the reading would have not been accurate.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Gonsowski [mailto:twinturbo@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 6:12 PM

There is only one way to read a dipstick (as Matt already correctly stated).
It
is simple, shut the engine off (the heads drainback remarkably quick if oil
is
normal operating temp) insert a wiped dry dipstick until it seats and then
remove it (try to take a reading on level ground).  It is quite likely one
side
of the dipstick may show artifically high, ignore that side.  Look at the
other
side, remember a dipstick can never read a lower oil fill level than you
actually have, only higher.  So go with the lowest reading you find.

Taking a reading while the engine is running is laughable.

About oil changes, most recommend to run the engine to normal operating
temps
and drain immediately (without burning yourself).  By running the engine,
the
oil mixes with all the small particles that may otherwise settle out with
time.
The hoter the oil, the faster it will drain out giving it the best chance of
bringing debris in the sump with it.  The film of oil left in the oil pan
will
also be thinner if the oil is hot (the heads will drainback well before
you're
ready to re-install the drain plug and the main gallery will drain out when
you
remove the filter if it hasn't already.  The only item that is hard to get
the
oil to drain from is the oil cooler.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:31:18 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: xenon drop-ins

You are correct Eric. Double the voltage and the current will double. My
example was only intended to illustrate why it is not necessary to use
larger wires when upgrading a car from 6 to 12 volts. But, if you were to
just change batteries, you would have big problems. We used to do this with
Volkswagens when I was a kid. The old 6 volt lights would burn for about 10
seconds and then blow. The alternator and regulator also had to be changed.
It was possible however, with the changing of bulbs, regulator and
alternator/generaltor to make it work. Why bother? the old 6 volt systems
just did not have enough umph to give good ignition and cast enough light
down the road. So much for the "good old days". Take Care. Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:33:05 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: xenon drop-ins

Yep - that'll do er.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:48:10 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

I usually drain at least 3 quarts and add 4.5 - 5 back.

Make sure that your dipstick is correct and the dipstick tube is not
damaged. I checked the dipstick and it is exactly 0.5 meter long from the
"full" mark to the stop on the sealing surface of the plug. I would find
another 3S car and look it the position of the dipstick tube it the same.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:55:04 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Thanks, Philip.  Maybe that is something I need to look at.  I'll let
everyone know if there are any updates.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Philip V. Glazatov
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:48 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!


I usually drain at least 3 quarts and add 4.5 - 5 back.

Make sure that your dipstick is correct and the dipstick tube is not
damaged. I checked the dipstick and it is exactly 0.5 meter long from the
"full" mark to the stop on the sealing surface of the plug. I would find
another 3S car and look it the position of the dipstick tube it the same.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:42:22 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: Team3S: Checking oil level (was: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!)

Okay I just clarified my current situation.  I remember that checking the
oil while the engine was running was when the level was real low since doing
it now give a VERY full indication.  Sorry about that one.

However, I checked it cold (I could lay my hands on the plenum and it was
mildly warm but essentially the car was cold).  Pull out the dipstick, wipe
it off, insert it until it seats firmly.  The loop on the handle of the
dipstick comes up and loops clockwise and ends on the driver's side of the
car.  This makes the dipstick flat while facing the front and rear of the
engine.

Pull out the dipstick and read the level.  With the two notches facing away
from me the reading is nill.  There is a spot or two on the dipstick above
the Full level, one small dot near the middle, and then some splotches below
the Low level.  However, if I turn the dipstick over (the two notches facing
toward me) then there is oil on half the thickness of the dipstick and it
goes up to about the 3/4 or Full mark.

Does ANYBODY else experience this?  Is there a seal or something near the
bottom of the dipstick tube that I might be missing which is giving bad
readings?

And I did this with the engine running and got a reading about 8 inches up
the dipstick so that is not the right way.  Thanks and sorry about not
mentioning I was doing that with a real low oil level.  Since then (about
two weeks ago) I put in 2 quarts so I know the level is good.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Philip V. Glazatov
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:48 PM

I usually drain at least 3 quarts and add 4.5 - 5 back.

Make sure that your dipstick is correct and the dipstick tube is not
damaged. I checked the dipstick and it is exactly 0.5 meter long from the
"full" mark to the stop on the sealing surface of the plug. I would find
another 3S car and look it the position of the dipstick tube it the same.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:43:33 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

I think that the speed of measurement should not matter here. I like to
read it slowly. Also I read the level on both sides of the dipstick. The
key is to figure out which is the right one and which was smeared. The
correct level is the one that is lower and has a dry but slightly fogged-up
area right above the edge of the wet area. Once you see what this fogged-up
edge looks like, you will never misread your oil level again. Good luck!

Philip

At 03:01 PM 09/17/01, Darren Schilberg wrote:
>Oh we listen but next time we are at a gathering together you can watch how
>I check it and then do it yourself.  I'm telling you.  I can do it at a
>snail's pace, jackrabbit pace, car on, car off.  I don't get good readings
>without the quick-dunk method.  On one side of the dipstick (flattened part)
>it reads either Low or below Low but on the opposite side it reads over the
>High mark.  I'll take pictures sometime but the camera does not zoom in far
>enough for details.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:10:57 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Checking oil level (was: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!)

The dipstick should be wet on both sides below the true oil level. The
dipstick tube is usually wet and messy inside and will sometimes mess up
the reading and leave oil drops all over the dipstick. The temperature of
the engine is not very important. The level should be measured right after
the engine is stalled, this way nothing is drained yet from the oil
galleries into the oil pan. You should clearly see the "fogged-up edge",
which I was talking about before, if the engine is hot or warm.

Philip

At 06:42 PM 09/17/01, Darren Schilberg wrote:
>Okay I just clarified my current situation.  I remember that checking the
>oil while the engine was running was when the level was real low since doing
>it now give a VERY full indication.  Sorry about that one.
>
>However, I checked it cold (I could lay my hands on the plenum and it was
>mildly warm but essentially the car was cold).  Pull out the dipstick, wipe
>it off, insert it until it seats firmly.  The loop on the handle of the
>dipstick comes up and loops clockwise and ends on the driver's side of the
>car.  This makes the dipstick flat while facing the front and rear of the
>engine.
>
>Pull out the dipstick and read the level.  With the two notches facing away
>from me the reading is nill.  There is a spot or two on the dipstick above
>the Full level, one small dot near the middle, and then some splotches below
>the Low level.  However, if I turn the dipstick over (the two notches facing
>toward me) then there is oil on half the thickness of the dipstick and it
>goes up to about the 3/4 or Full mark.
>
>Does ANYBODY else experience this?  Is there a seal or something near the
>bottom of the dipstick tube that I might be missing which is giving bad
>readings?
>
>And I did this with the engine running and got a reading about 8 inches up
>the dipstick so that is not the right way.  Thanks and sorry about not
>mentioning I was doing that with a real low oil level.  Since then (about
>two weeks ago) I put in 2 quarts so I know the level is good.
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:55:27 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

>> Taking a reading while the engine is running is laughable.

> Taking an oil dipstick reading while the car is running is
> NOT a laughable matter since this was the only way I was
> getting anywhere close to accurate readings.  I'm sorry I
> brought up the idea but thinking outside the box is
> what the list needs sometimes.

Thinking "outside the box" is good sometimes, but giving bad advice on how
to read a dipstick is NOT the time to be throwing the box away.  You CANNOT
get "accurate" readings of any sort by reading the dipstick with the engine
running.

> Pull out the dipstick and read the level.  With the two
> notches facing away from me the reading is nill.  There is
> a spot or two on the dipstick above the Full level, one
> small dot near the middle, and then some splotches below
> the Low level.  However, if I turn the dipstick over (the
> two notches facing toward me) then there is oil on half
> the thickness of the dipstick and it goes up to about the
> 3/4 or Full mark.

Your oil is low.  The dipstick should be plainly and clearly wet with oil up
to the full mark on the front side.  It makes no difference whatsoever what
is on the back side as that can slide along the dipstick tube.  The
splotches/dots are probably from cranking the dipstick in there too fast and
flinging oil onto it from the dipstick tube.

> Thanks and sorry about not mentioning I was doing that
> with a real low oil level.  Since then (about two weeks
> ago) I put in 2 quarts so I know the level is good.

If the dipstick doesn't plainly have oil up to the Full mark, then it is
still low.

Drain whatever oil is in there, change the filter (with an OEM Mitsubishi
filter), dump in 4.5 quarts of oil, run the car, let it sit 10-15 minutes,
clean the dipstick and plop it in there.  The lower portion of the dipstick
should* be clearly covered with oil somewhere around midway through the
crosshatched section of the dipstick.  Top it off 1/16 of a quart at a time
until its at the "full" mark.

Unless your dipstick is somehow a different length than the rest of ours, I
really don't see how it can read any differently.  It gets dunked in the
oil, you see the level on the stick.  The dipstick tube is bolted to the
block, so it can't move around and magically change height unless the bolt
came out.

If you dunk the dipstick into a bottle of oil up to the fill line and pull
it out, that's exactly what you should see on the front of the dipstick.

You didn't do something strange like polish/wax the dipstick or something
like that, right?

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:14:46 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

My dipstick is not cross-hatched in the level oil area.  It just has two
notches.  Is this some explanation of the difference?  Does ANYone have a
plain dipstick with just two notches for the oil level?  I'd like to hear if
anyone else can justify this.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:55 PM

Your oil is low.  The dipstick should be plainly and clearly wet with oil up
to the full mark on the front side.  It makes no difference whatsoever what
is on the back side as that can slide along the dipstick tube.  The
splotches/dots are probably from cranking the dipstick in there too fast and
flinging oil onto it from the dipstick tube.

If the dipstick doesn't plainly have oil up to the Full mark, then it is
still low.

Drain whatever oil is in there, change the filter (with an OEM Mitsubishi
filter), dump in 4.5 quarts of oil, run the car, let it sit 10-15 minutes,
clean the dipstick and plop it in there.  The lower portion of the dipstick
should* be clearly covered with oil somewhere around midway through the
crosshatched section of the dipstick.  Top it off 1/16 of a quart at a time
until its at the "full" mark.

Unless your dipstick is somehow a different length than the rest of ours, I
really don't see how it can read any differently.  It gets dunked in the
oil, you see the level on the stick.  The dipstick tube is bolted to the
block, so it can't move around and magically change height unless the bolt
came out.

If you dunk the dipstick into a bottle of oil up to the fill line and pull
it out, that's exactly what you should see on the front of the dipstick.

You didn't do something strange like polish/wax the dipstick or something
like that, right?

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Please welcome..

...our new list members!

ccoffey@cac.net
923kgtsl@3Si.zzn.com
oceanus52@hotmail.com
qwkenuf@home.com
renapier@transport.com
jlford4@home.com

* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:23:06 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: Team3S: O2 sensors and Stillen DP

I just ordered a Borla catback and a Stillen DP and I was wondering what I
have to do with the 2 O2 sensors that are on the stock DP. Do I need to weld
bungs on the Stillen DP and the test pipe, or can I just not use them ? I
hope to be installing it this weekend, so any help would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,


Francis
'96 RT/TT (with OBII and too many O2 sensors)
- - Test pipe, gutted precats, AVC-R, RPS TCC, Supra Fuel Pump, Goodridge
Steel Braided Lines, Porterfield Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads,
Autometer Boost Gauge, GC Springs(500/ 300 f/r), HKS Megaflow filter, 1G DSM
BOV, Spearco WI

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: O2 sensors and Stillen DP

Yes, you will have to weld in bungs for everything to remain happy.  Make
sure you place them the same distance from the turbos as before, as how
much heat they see, directly affects how well they perform..and how well
your motor performs as well.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Morice, Francis wrote:

> I just ordered a Borla catback and a Stillen DP and I was wondering what I
> have to do with the 2 O2 sensors that are on the stock DP. Do I need to weld
> bungs on the Stillen DP and the test pipe, or can I just not use them ? I
> hope to be installing it this weekend, so any help would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Francis
> '96 RT/TT (with OBII and too many O2 sensors)
> - Test pipe, gutted precats, AVC-R, RPS TCC, Supra Fuel Pump, Goodridge
> Steel Braided Lines, Porterfield Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads,
> Autometer Boost Gauge, GC Springs(500/ 300 f/r), HKS Megaflow filter, 1G DSM
> BOV, Spearco WI
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:26:08 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!

Thanks, Rich.  You are confirming what I assume other people have also.  I
will see if the Pep Boys has another type of dipstick (even a thin rod would
work well ... doesn't have to be a piece of flat metal).  Thanks for saying
the car is better after sitting 20 minutes.  I'll give it a shot tomorrow
and let everyone know if that is better.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard [mailto:radanc@home.com]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:44 PM
To: dschilberg@pobox.com

Yes, my 92 stealth TT has exactly that type of dip stick and it always
reads funny. I thought it would be more reliable when the car had sit
for a while but too long and I was getting inacurate readings. Within 20
minutes of shutting engine off seems to be best. I was for a while
reading the oil near the second hatch and realized that I was getting
strange readings only upon having bad cylinder noise which turned out to
be inadequate oil lube. I was close to a quart low! Now do not have that
problem and this is mostly due to reliably refilling oil to specs. I do
not have as much problem as reported since my car needs exactly specs on
oil change. I never measured exactly how much comes out. By the way the
flimsy metal curved dip stick almost always catches oil on the way out
and gives difficult readings but can be found to mostly be uneven drip
smudges that I rule out as true level readings and look for even across
dip stick wetness.

Rich
92 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:35:08 -0600
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

What is the best way to gut my cat? Just take it out and shuv a big rod
through it?  Also, does anyone know of some advoce on wieght reduction that
won't cost me an arma and a leg?  Any advice as I prepare to do this would
be welcome, thanks!!!

T.J.
1992 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:04:09 -0500
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

Cut off one arm and one leg, should shed ~30 pounds ;)

Ooorrrr, remove the spare and replace with a can of fix a flat and a cell
phone.  Remove the rear seat (and the passenger seat if you like).  Or
replace seats with racing seats.  Lighter rims and tires are great since
it's a spinning mass.  Carbon fiber hood (might as well do the arm and a leg
first).  Replace main cat with a test pipe, or just get a lighter
aftermarket exhaust. Remove the stereo if you like.  Drive with an empty
tank.  Nothing else I can think of that's cheap...

Christopher

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:35 PM
Subject: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

> What is the best way to gut my cat? Just take it out and shuv a big rod
> through it?  Also, does anyone know of some advoce on wieght reduction
that
> won't cost me an arma and a leg?  Any advice as I prepare to do this would
> be welcome, thanks!!!
>
> T.J.
> 1992 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 00:37:05 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

From what I hear if you can GET the rear cat off then do it.  Most people
don't have such small hands and patience.  Good luck on the front.  Several
on here have done that but it is a messy job.

The stock driver's TT seat weighs 60 pounds and the passenger seat weighs 40
pounds.  Replacing the driver seat with a Sparco Evo race seat (moderate in
the price range) adds 16 pounds back in not including hardware or seatbelt
of about 2 pounds.  Don't forget that you will most likely be urged (read:
required) to install a rollbar with the race seat and harness and that
weighs 60 pounds so you are back to stock weight again.

Rear seat is pointless.  Takes too much trouble to remove for only a piece
of foam that weighs nothing.  I think I weighed the rear seatbacks as 4-6
pounds so not worth much.  Spare tire weighs a good bit but I forget since I
have a full-size spare (50 pounds) instead of the doughnut.  It is in the
basement and I'm too tired to drag it to the scale.

I think Jeff Lucius said his tire+wheel combo is around 28 pounds or
something unreal.  My 17" and 18" wheel and tire combo are a cool 50 pounds
(Pirelli P-Zero on 18" or Yoko A032 on 17").  Not too much you can do
really.  Jeff Mohler has taken it down to about 3,200-3,400# which creates a
good weight-to-hp ratio.  Mine at the track approaches 4,100# which is not
advisable for "racing."

P.S. I thought the phrase was "More than one way to SKIN a cat."  Man am I
out of it.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:45:35 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Weight savings

> What is the best way to gut my cat? Just take it out and shuv a big rod
> through it?  Also, does anyone know of some advoce on wieght reduction
> that won't cost me an arma and a leg?  Any advice as I prepare to do
> this would be welcome, thanks!!!

For gutting the precats you'll want to drill out as much of the material as
possible and then knock out pieces with a chisel or something similar.  Its
nasty messy - get a good dust mask and fully enclosed eye protection.

Weight savings....  Other than the things that Christopher mentioned you can
start stripping "luxury items" out of the car.  If you are on a quest to
save weight, you can remove the air conditioning system and heater core and
fans and all that stuff.  You can also remove the nice (but heavy) leather
seats and replace with lightweight racing seats.  If you aren't going to be
driving it on the street or anywhere other than a dragstrip then you can
remove the bumpers and their associated hardware and fabricate some aluminum
brackets to hold the fascias in place.

Other stuff that can go:

Carpet padding
Sound deadener "goop"
Jack, tools, rear "blind" hatch cover, some heat shields
Lighten the flywheel
Lighten the driver?
Active exhaust
Replace heavy battery with a much smaller/lighter one

Depends on how much you want your nice car to look like a not-so-nice car on
the inside - most of the interior can go, stripped down to the metal.
Replace the window glass with Lexan (no more rolling windows up and down -
so you might as well remove the power window motors and all the hardware in
the doors too).

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:45:51 -0500
From: "Oskar" <osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

> From what I hear if you can GET the rear cat off then do it.  Most people
> don't have such small hands and patience. 

The rear pre-cat is actually easier to gut if you leave it on the car. 

Oskar

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:49:12 -0500
From: "Oskar" <osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

T.J.

You will not get far with the rod.  It will just pack the catalyst into the
cat.  Use drill bits, and chisels.  More details can be found in the
archives.  There are great explanations of how to do each of the cats.

Oskar

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Jeys" <tj@jeys.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:35 PM
Subject: Team3S: Ways to Gut a Cat

> What is the best way to gut my cat? Just take it out and shuv a big rod
> through it?  Also, does anyone know of some advoce on wieght reduction
that
> won't cost me an arma and a leg?  Any advice as I prepare to do this would
> be welcome, thanks!!!
>
> T.J.
> 1992 3000GT VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:01:59 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: O2 sensors and Stillen DP

Why doesn't the Stillen have these on it already? Can you even run
without O2 sensors?

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:41 PM
To: Morice, Francis
Cc: Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: Re: Team3S: O2 sensors and Stillen DP

Yes, you will have to weld in bungs for everything to remain happy.
Make sure you place them the same distance from the turbos as before, as
how much heat they see, directly affects how well they perform..and how
well your motor performs as well.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Morice, Francis wrote:

> I just ordered a Borla catback and a Stillen DP and I was wondering
> what I have to do with the 2 O2 sensors that are on the stock DP. Do I

> need to weld bungs on the Stillen DP and the test pipe, or can I just
> not use them ? I hope to be installing it this weekend, so any help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Francis
> '96 RT/TT (with OBII and too many O2 sensors)
> - Test pipe, gutted precats, AVC-R, RPS TCC, Supra Fuel Pump,
> Goodridge Steel Braided Lines, Porterfield Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors,
> R4S pads, Autometer Boost Gauge, GC Springs(500/ 300 f/r), HKS
> Megaflow filter, 1G DSM BOV, Spearco WI
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #614
***************************************