Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, September 6 2001
Volume 01 : Number
602
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:06:25 -0600
From: "Thomas Jeys" <
tj@jeys.net>
Subject: Team3S: Buggy Stock
Alarm
No, I'm not using the factory remote1, just using the one that came
with my
viper. Jeff, I see your logic about how the system is getting
armed2, and I
would agree if it was more consistent, but it only happens
every so often
(and in the most incontinent places ie: right in front of my
girlfriend’s
place just before I took her out to dinner). As far as
using the key to
disarm it, not to sound like a lazy bastard, but I don't
want to have to
unlock my drivers side door. Keyless entry was one of
the main reasons I
had the viper installed. So I think I'm going to rip
out the stock system
and see what happens. Any advice before I begin is
welcome!
1>Are you using your factory remote to lock the car, and your
aftermarket
1>remote to unarm the car??
2>The problem I
was
2>having was that when I arm the system, the doors lock, hence arming
the
2>factory alarm and the aftermarket one. When I disarm the
aftermarket
alarm,
2>it unlocks the doors for me, but this doesn't
disarm the factory.
Thanks!!!
- -T.J.
1992 Mitsubishi 3000GT
VR-4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:29:16
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Tranny Filler
I've seen this mentioned here before about the
easiest way to fill the
difficult to get to transmission.
I just replaced all my FWD's M/T's tranny fluids with a MTL /
MT-90 mix
from Redline. The car is still not drivable, so I can't
report on how
well the stuff works, but from others it sounds
promising. Regardless -
I vaguely remember people buying / making pumps
and what not to fill the
tranny from below, and such. I found a much
easier and cheaper way last
night.
I ran across a used Pennzoil
Tranny Fluid Bottle. It is longer than it
is wide, so it makes it a
much simpler fit in the area. It also has a
spouted cap. What I
did was clean out the Pennzoil bottle, and dump in
the redline, then use the
spouted cap to fill my tranny. Worked
beautifully, and I didn't spill a
drop (well, until I overfilled it,
then I had to let the excess run
out)
Anyway - just something to simplify this process.
- -Cody
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:13:04
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trivia
2
Dave et all;
Whether you or I replace the belt first (we
both have approximately the
same mileage on a 92TT) we should endevour to
take a picture of the belt for
those interested in a 10 year old low
mileage belt (many , including my 92
were produced in 91
).
Best
Darc
snip>>>>>>>
>
In the FWIW department, my 92TT has 36K and I'm still running the
original
> timing belt. I'm going to run one more track event in a
couple weeks
before
> putting the car up on the stands to dig in.
Hopefully it will hold up for
> one more run.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:47:27
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: People in California have bad gas
From every study ive seen
on the stuff, a 'five point' increase in octane
as listed on the bottle is a
whole 91 to 91.5 change.
The race fuel actually has a measureable effect
when averaged out.
YMMV
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E.
wrote:
> please elaborate, Geoff?
>
> the octane rating
of fuel is largely a representation of the content of
> branched
hydrocarbons versus long straight chain hydrocarbons. What's the
>
difference between dumping a concentrated bottle of the stuff in a tank
of
> gas as opposed to mixing a dilute solution (race fuel) with 91 octane
gas?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff
Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September
06, 2001 8:56 AM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > Cc:
NassiriC@aol.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: People in California have bad gas
> >
>
> Octane booster is junk...imho.
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 07:37:00
-0700
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: People in California have bad gas
Octane boost is a waste of
money. Remember that if it says "raises octane
by 7 points" that really
means that you will go from 91 to 91.7 because 10
points is only 1 octane
rating. Don't waste your money.
Race fuel and alky injection are
the only effective means to raise octane.
Putting in a few gallons of 100
will be much more effective than any octane
boost. Most octane boosters
are really just toluene anyway. I run 17 psi
daily with 357 turbos and
methanol/water injection, on 91 octane pump gas
(without any
knock).
Rich
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 10:38:46
-0400
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Detect knock?
I'm about to install alcohol injection on my baby, but know
that the
desire to up boost is there, and I most likely will...
So,
for all those of you who can, how do you detect knock? Knock
meter,
datalogging, etc?
Thanks!
Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White R/T
TT
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:49:46
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
They are considering
this.
Being as they ship hundreds of sets of rotors per day, this isnt
possible.
FEEDBACK from customers is what does cause checking of specific
types &
situations however. The track record from thier
casting/machining vendors
is pretty clean.
Ive had a few of you
with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and one person
got the right BOX, but
some other type of rotor in it (from another
mailing list). Thats all
ive had in about $23,000 in orders this year so
far.
On Thu, 6 Sep
2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> Perhaps Porterfield should consider
checking the runout on the rotors they
> receive from the people who make
the rotors before accepting the shipment.
>
> Some might call it
Quality Control ...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:57 AM
> > To: Curt Gendron
> >
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
> >
Porterfield doesnt make the rotor, but they are doing thier best to
> >
replace bad parts IF they are told about it up front.
> >
> >
Of course they feed this back into thier vendor when it happens, because
>
> THEY get replacements from them and they dont like sendinng out free
stuff
> > either.
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:53:37
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: People in California have bad gas
if that's correct, then you
need four bottles per tankful to get from 91 to
93 octane. At $1 or so per
bottle that would equate to one gallon of race
fuel into a tank
full
91*15/16+104*1/16=91.81 octane.
so which one has a measurable
effect?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001
9:47 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: People in California have bad gas
>
> From
every study ive seen on the stuff, a 'five point' increase in octane
> as
listed on the bottle is a whole 91 to 91.5 change.
>
> The race
fuel actually has a measureable effect when averaged out.
>
>
YMMV
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:48:57
-0400
From: "Peter Howey" <
stimpy@freedomdrivingaids.com>
Subject:
Team3S: tapping is making me crazy
'94 Dodge Stealth RT. tic tic
tic tic
This topic has probably been beaten to death. Is there a
"how the hell do I
get rid of the lifter tapping" FAQ
somewhere?
Cheers,
Peter M. Howey
Manager of Information
Systems
Freedom Group, LLC
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:01:54
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
In PROACTIVE companies, QC is
transparent to customers because they seldom
receive flawed products.
QC systems can be set up to SPOT CHECK products
without checking 100% of the
rotors received. If Porterfield doesn't check
the products it receives
from it's vendors, and just tranships them to it's
customers, then
Porterfield is acting as little more than a MIDDLEMAN, with
little value
added.
Not just slamming Porterfield, it's not a perfect world, stuff
happens. But
it's pretty irresponsible to rely on customer complaints
as the primary
means of detecting flawed products
Chuck.
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001
9:50 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
>
> They are
considering this.
>
> Being as they ship hundreds of sets of rotors
per day, this isnt possible.
>
> FEEDBACK from customers is what
does cause checking of specific types &
> situations however.
The track record from thier casting/machining vendors
> is pretty
clean.
>
> Ive had a few of you with warp issues (my sincere
regrets), and one person
> got the right BOX, but some other type of rotor
in it (from another
> mailing list). Thats all ive had in about
$23,000 in orders this year so
> far.
>
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2001,
Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>
> > Perhaps Porterfield should
consider checking the runout on the rotors
> they
> > receive
from the people who make the rotors before accepting the
>
shipment.
> >
> > Some might call it Quality Control ...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:10:51
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: tapping is making me crazy
Have you tries the team3s.com
FAQ?
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Peter Howey wrote:
> '94 Dodge Stealth
RT. tic tic tic tic
>
> This topic has probably been beaten
to death. Is there a "how the hell do I
> get rid of the lifter
tapping" FAQ somewhere?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter M.
Howey
> Manager of Information Systems
> Freedom Group,
LLC
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:16:11
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> Not just slamming
Porterfield, it's not a perfect world, stuff happens. But
> it's
pretty irresponsible to rely on customer complaints as the primary
> means
of detecting flawed products
- ---
Of course, but without feedback, whos
to know?
Its not that people have to bitch about bad things, just inform
people
they know about a problem, and things -do- change in a company that
cares.
Im not making excuses for PF, but the concept of feedback on
product is a
universal one..everything from "Your coke here tastes funny" to
"Why are
my Firestone tires blowing up?" has impact on a product.
I
have also asked PF if they can work with thier machinists to oversize
the
chamfer to fit better on oddball 3S hubs because thats a problem we
are
finding.
> Chuck.
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06,
2001 9:50 AM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
> >
They are considering this.
> >
> > Being as they ship
hundreds of sets of rotors per day, this isnt possible.
> >
>
> FEEDBACK from customers is what does cause checking of specific types
&
> > situations however. The track record from thier
casting/machining vendors
> > is pretty clean.
> >
> > Ive had a few of you with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and
one person
> > got the right BOX, but some other type of rotor in it
(from another
> > mailing list). Thats all ive had in about
$23,000 in orders this year so
> > far.
> >
> > On
Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> >
> > >
Perhaps Porterfield should consider checking the runout on the rotors
>
> they
> > > receive from the people who make the rotors before
accepting the
> > shipment.
> > >
> > > Some
might call it Quality Control ...
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:09:56
-0400
From: "Peter Howey" <
stimpy@freedomdrivingaids.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: tapping is making me crazy
Yes, I did. There is nothing
aboot lifter tapping in the FAQs.
Cheers,
Peter M.
Howey
Manager of Information Systems
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Peter Howey" <
stimpy@freedomdrivingaids.com>
Cc:
"Team3S (E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: tapping is making
me crazy
> Have you tries the team3s.com FAQ?
>
> On
Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Peter Howey wrote:
>
> > '94 Dodge Stealth
RT. tic tic tic tic
> >
> > This topic has probably been
beaten to death. Is there a "how the hell
do I
> > get rid of
the lifter tapping" FAQ somewhere?
> >
> > Cheers,
>
>
> > Peter M. Howey
> > Manager of Information
Systems
> > Freedom Group, LLC
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:15:35
-0700
From: "Watkins, Jim" <
jim.watkins@terayon.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: tapping is making me crazy
Try searching the Team3s
archives. There is plenty of stuff.
Yes, I did. There is
nothing aboot lifter tapping in the FAQs.
Cheers,
Peter M.
Howey
Manager of Information Systems
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:29:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: tapping is making me crazy
Theres tons of
references.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Peter Howey wrote:
> Yes, I
did. There is nothing aboot lifter tapping in the FAQs.
>
>
Cheers,
>
> Peter M. Howey
> Manager of Information
Systems
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "Peter Howey" <
stimpy@freedomdrivingaids.com>
>
Cc: "Team3S (E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: tapping
is making me crazy
>
> > Have you tries the team3s.com
FAQ?
> >
> > On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Peter Howey wrote:
>
>
> > > '94 Dodge Stealth RT. tic tic tic tic
> >
>
> > > This topic has probably been beaten to death. Is
there a "how the hell
> do I
> > > get rid of the lifter
tapping" FAQ somewhere?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> >
>
> > > Peter M. Howey
> > > Manager of Information
Systems
> > > Freedom Group, LLC
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:02:15
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
My 2¢ --- Porterfields response is BS. I
can buy Chinese made rotors for $45
or so and I would expect some quality
problems, however when I pay a premium
price I expect a premium product. I
shouldn't be expected to run a QA analysis
on a product when I buy
it.
I fully agree with Mr. Willis ---- Quality is the responsibly of the
seller, they should
verify vendor quality and if it's not acceptable find
another vendor. They sure as
hell shouldn't ship me an inferior product and
then say --- it's not my job ---.
I usually order my rotors when I need
them [ If I wanted it tomorrow I'd order it
tomorrow ], having to check
quality and then send it back for replacement is
not an
option.
Jim Berry
Geoff
--- feel free to forward this to Porterfield and feel free to mention the
next
set of rotors will require some thinking --- before this thread I
just
assumed I would get
Porterfields.
==========================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles E. <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors
Resolution
> In PROACTIVE companies, QC is transparent to
customers because they seldom
> receive flawed products. QC systems
can be set up to SPOT CHECK products
> without checking 100% of the rotors
received. If Porterfield doesn't check
> the products it receives
from it's vendors, and just tranships them to it's
> customers, then
Porterfield is acting as little more than a MIDDLEMAN, with
> little value
added.
>
> Not just slamming Porterfield, it's not a perfect world,
stuff happens. But
> it's pretty irresponsible to rely on customer
complaints as the primary
> means of detecting flawed
products
>
> Chuck.
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06,
2001 9:50 AM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
> >
They are considering this.
> >
> > Being as they ship hundreds
of sets of rotors per day, this isnt possible.
> >
> >
FEEDBACK from customers is what does cause checking of specific types
&
> > situations however. The track record from thier
casting/machining vendors
> > is pretty clean.
> >
>
> Ive had a few of you with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and one
person
> > got the right BOX, but some other type of rotor in it (from
another
> > mailing list). Thats all ive had in about $23,000 in
orders this year so
> > far.
> >
> > On Thu, 6 Sep
2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps
Porterfield should consider checking the runout on the rotors
> >
they
> > > receive from the people who make the rotors before
accepting the
> > shipment.
> > >
> > > Some
might call it Quality Control ...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:23:18
-0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Mine were not cryo and they were
warped.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Curt Gendron
[mailto:curt_gendron@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 7:36
AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Gee Francis.... You
and Oskar should start playing the lottery with your
luck... :-)
All kidding aside.... I think there is a warpage problem
with
Porterfield's cyroed rotors. With Erik, Francis, and Oskar all
getting
warped rotors out of the box within the last year, there is
definatly more
than a 5-10% chance. I've heard from one other person
who had this same
problem a while back, but I can't remember who it
was. Someone who has the
"in" at Porterfield, (like Geoff, maybe??)
should speak to Porterfield about
this to ensure that there is a
fix. The problem is now out there for
everyone to absorb.
Buyer beware....
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From: "Morice,
Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
>To:
"'Gross, Erik'" <
erik.gross@intel.com>,
"Team3S (E-mail)"
><
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:47:58
-0500
>
>Wow, 5-10% are warped, I guess Oskar and I must have been
real lucky when
>we
>ordered ours and both of our sets were
warped......
>
>
>Francis
>'96 R/T
TT
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gross, Erik
[mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 6:37
PM
>To: Team3S List (E-mail)
>Subject: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors
Resolution
>
>
>Some of you may recall that a couple weeks ago
I installed a brand-new set
>of Porterfield cryo-treated front brake
rotors that ended I found to be
>warped out of the box. Since it was
2 days before a track day, I decided
>to
>machine the rotors and
use them rather than sitting out on the track day.
>After machining, the
rotors worked flawlessly on the street and at the
>track.
>
>I
sent an e-mail to Porterfield explaining the situation and
politely
>indicating among other things, that "considering the premium I
paid for the
>heat-cycling and the cryo-treatment, I feel that I should
receive new
>rotors
>in installable/usable condition." I
asked what they would like to do to
>remedy the situation. I
received a message on my home answering machine
>and
>an e-mail
within 4 business hours. I talked to Tim and he explained that
>if
>I had not used them at the track, I could have returned them
for a new,
>unwarped pair of rotors. Since I machined/used the
rotors, he offered to
>give me a substantial discount on my next set of
rotors to compensate for
>the lost rotor thickness (and warping
resistance) caused by machining them.
>I am happy with this resolution and
have no qualms about recommending
>Porterfield based on this
experience.
>
>FYI, Tim said that 5-10% of the rotors they get are
warped to some degree
>and that the heat-cycling and cryo-treatment
processes should not cause a
>good, new rotor to warp. Based on
that, there should be between a 1/100
>and
>1/400 chance that a
customer would receive 2 warped rotors, but that's what
>I got. Not
a lucky guy, I guess... but I have street and track brakes
>that
>both work now, so I guess I can't complain
:-)
>
>--Erik
>'95 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:07:33
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
People in California have bad gas
FWIW² --- at the bottom of the racing
fuels page is a chart showing what
the end result is if you mix various
amounts of different octane
fuel.
Jim
Berry
======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
FWIW..
>
> There are 20 locations in California where Union76 sells
100 octane racing
> fuel.
>
> I filled up the T/A with it at
$4.09/gal here in San Jose.
>
>
www.76.com, click on '76 Racing Fuel' 6 bullets
down, then click station
> locator under 'Competition 100' and enter your
zip code. There are 20
> locations across
California.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:25:20
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Unfortunately for some of us - the
"FEEDBACK" system did not work so well
about 18 months ago. I bought my
first set of cryo'd Porterfield rotors
then. I put them on the car the
night before going to the track.
Immediately upon pulling out of the driveway
I noticed the warping. It was
Friday evening, and the people at
Porterfield were done working. Since I
had prepaid for the track day,
and the hotel and such I decided to go
anyway.
Back home I called up
Porterfield to discuss the matter. I was told that I
must have
installed them incorrectly - and that it was my fault. There was
not
even a hint of customer service attitude in the people I spoke with.
As
a matter of fact, I was told that Tim would call me back to discuss
the
matter. That didn't happen. When I finally tracked him down
he matter of
factly told me that I should NOT have used or turned the rotors,
and instead
returned them to Porterfield for inspection. He showed no
compassion about
my situation with an already paid for track event. He
also made it known
that they had never heard of this type of
problem.
Do not mis-construe this for whining - I am just telling how I
was treated
by Porterfield. I am glad that they have improved their
"customer service".
My second set of cryo'd rotors were purchased this
spring. I already wrote
this list about what happened with those.
A quick synopsis: I had a shop
measure runout prior to installing -
0.0002. After installing they warped
the first time I stepped on the
brakes while going over 60 MPH. I followed
the break-in
instructions. Previous stops at lower speeds did not
indicate
warpage. I had them turned before the track event and they
worked
flawlessly. (turning cost me $81.00 as I did not have the time
to remove
them from the car. The only shop that could do it while I was
not working
was the Mitsu garage.) Burned from my previous experience
with the customer
service professionals at Porterfield I have not contacted
them about this
problem.
Oskar
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake
Rotors Resolution
> In PROACTIVE companies, QC is transparent to
customers because they seldom
> receive flawed products. QC systems
can be set up to SPOT CHECK products
> without checking 100% of the rotors
received. If Porterfield doesn't
check
> the products it receives
from it's vendors, and just tranships them to
it's
> customers, then
Porterfield is acting as little more than a MIDDLEMAN,
with
> little
value added.
>
> Not just slamming Porterfield, it's not a perfect
world, stuff happens.
But
> it's pretty irresponsible to rely on
customer complaints as the primary
> means of detecting flawed
products
>
> Chuck.
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06,
2001 9:50 AM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
> >
They are considering this.
> >
> > Being as they ship hundreds
of sets of rotors per day, this isnt
possible.
> >
> >
FEEDBACK from customers is what does cause checking of specific types
&
> > situations however. The track record from thier
casting/machining
vendors
> > is pretty clean.
> >
>
> Ive had a few of you with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and
one
person
> > got the right BOX, but some other type of rotor in it
(from another
> > mailing list). Thats all ive had in about
$23,000 in orders this year
so
> > far.
> >
> > On
Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> >
> > >
Perhaps Porterfield should consider checking the runout on the rotors
>
> they
> > > receive from the people who make the rotors before
accepting the
> > shipment.
> > >
> > > Some
might call it Quality Control ...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:42:43
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Jim:
Nobody says its
your job.
But people who bitch about the president but dont vote..should
stop
complaining.
They -do- know about issues on a handful of 3s
orders now, and they have
brought it up.
Ever since they had ONE order
of mine where box X had rotor Y in
it...theyve begun checking all quick-ship
orders on a more regular basis.
Of course, if PF (or anyone else in thier
shoes) just blamed the vendor
before them and not offered feedback on
issues...things would be much
worse.
The fact is in -any- retail
environment, that the customers good and bad
words can directly drive the
quality of any product.
PS: Jim let me drive his car once, he's way
cool..even if I did bring the
wrong controls he wanted.
JIM!
I found the controls you wanted however, I did save the
steering
wheel!
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Jim Berry wrote:
> My 2¢
--- Porterfields response is BS. I can buy Chinese made rotors for $45
>
or so and I would expect some quality problems, however when I pay a
premium
> price I expect a premium product. I shouldn't be expected to run
a QA analysis
> on a product when I buy it.
>
> I fully agree
with Mr. Willis ---- Quality is the responsibly of the seller, they
should
> verify vendor quality and if it's not acceptable find another
vendor. They sure as
> hell shouldn't ship me an inferior product and then
say --- it's not my job ---.
>
> I usually order my rotors when I
need them [ If I wanted it tomorrow I'd order it
> tomorrow ], having to
check quality and then send it back for replacement is
> not an
option.
>
> Jim
Berry
>
> Geoff --- feel free to forward this to Porterfield and
feel free to mention the
next
>
set of rotors will require some thinking --- before this thread I
just
>
assumed I would get Porterfields.
>
==========================================================
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: Willis, Charles E. <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:01 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped
Brake Rotors Resolution
>
>
> > In PROACTIVE companies,
QC is transparent to customers because they seldom
> > receive flawed
products. QC systems can be set up to SPOT CHECK products
> >
without checking 100% of the rotors received. If Porterfield doesn't
check
> > the products it receives from it's vendors, and just
tranships them to it's
> > customers, then Porterfield is acting as
little more than a MIDDLEMAN, with
> > little value added.
>
>
> > Not just slamming Porterfield, it's not a perfect world, stuff
happens. But
> > it's pretty irresponsible to rely on customer
complaints as the primary
> > means of detecting flawed
products
> >
> > Chuck.
> >
> > >
-----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September
06, 2001 9:50 AM
> > > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
>
> > > They are considering this.
> > >
> >
> Being as they ship hundreds of sets of rotors per day, this isnt
possible.
> > >
> > > FEEDBACK from customers is what
does cause checking of specific types &
> > > situations
however. The track record from thier casting/machining vendors
>
> > is pretty clean.
> > >
> > > Ive had a few of
you with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and one person
> > > got
the right BOX, but some other type of rotor in it (from another
> >
> mailing list). Thats all ive had in about $23,000 in orders this year
so
> > > far.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 6 Sep
2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> > >
> > > > Perhaps
Porterfield should consider checking the runout on the rotors
> > >
they
> > > > receive from the people who make the rotors before
accepting the
> > > shipment.
> > > >
> >
> > Some might call it Quality Control ...
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:43:09
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Correct, its not a cryo issue,
but once thats been taken up with the
machinests.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001,
Floyd, Jim wrote:
>
> Mine were not cryo and they were
warped.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Curt Gendron
[mailto:curt_gendron@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001
7:36 AM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
>
>
>
Gee Francis.... You and Oskar should start playing the lottery with your
> luck... :-) All kidding aside.... I think there is a
warpage problem with
>
> Porterfield's cyroed rotors. With
Erik, Francis, and Oskar all getting
> warped rotors out of the box
within the last year, there is definatly more
> than a 5-10%
chance. I've heard from one other person who had this same
>
problem a while back, but I can't remember who it was. Someone who has the
> "in" at Porterfield, (like Geoff, maybe??) should speak to Porterfield
about
>
> this to ensure that there is a fix. The
problem is now out there for
> everyone to absorb. Buyer
beware....
>
> later,
> Curt
>
http://www.mn3s.org>
> >From:
"Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
>
>To: "'Gross, Erik'" <
erik.gross@intel.com>,
"Team3S (E-mail)"
> ><
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
>Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >Date: Thu, 6
Sep 2001 07:47:58 -0500
> >
> >Wow, 5-10% are warped, I guess
Oskar and I must have been real lucky when
> >we
> >ordered
ours and both of our sets were warped......
> >
> >
>
>Francis
> >'96 R/T TT
> >
> >
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: Gross, Erik
[mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001
6:37 PM
> >To: Team3S List (E-mail)
> >Subject: Team3S: Warped
Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
> >
> >Some of you may
recall that a couple weeks ago I installed a brand-new set
> >of
Porterfield cryo-treated front brake rotors that ended I found to be
>
>warped out of the box. Since it was 2 days before a track day, I
decided
> >to
> >machine the rotors and use them rather than
sitting out on the track day.
> >After machining, the rotors worked
flawlessly on the street and at the
> >track.
> >
>
>I sent an e-mail to Porterfield explaining the situation and
politely
> >indicating among other things, that "considering the
premium I paid for the
> >heat-cycling and the cryo-treatment, I feel
that I should receive new
> >rotors
> >in installable/usable
condition." I asked what they would like to do to
> >remedy the
situation. I received a message on my home answering machine
>
>and
> >an e-mail within 4 business hours. I talked to Tim and
he explained that
> >if
> >I had not used them at the track,
I could have returned them for a new,
> >unwarped pair of rotors.
Since I machined/used the rotors, he offered to
> >give me a
substantial discount on my next set of rotors to compensate for
> >the
lost rotor thickness (and warping resistance) caused by machining them.
>
>I am happy with this resolution and have no qualms about
recommending
> >Porterfield based on this experience.
>
>
> >FYI, Tim said that 5-10% of the rotors they get are warped to
some degree
> >and that the heat-cycling and cryo-treatment processes
should not cause a
> >good, new rotor to warp. Based on that,
there should be between a 1/100
> >and
> >1/400 chance that a
customer would receive 2 warped rotors, but that's what
> >I got.
Not a lucky guy, I guess... but I have street and track brakes
>
>that
> >both work now, so I guess I can't complain :-)
>
>
> >--Erik
> >'95 VR-4
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:28:23
-0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Just to add a little more to
this, when I ordered mine, cryoed/crossdrilled,
they came only cryoed(no way
to tell) and not crossdrilled as I had ordered
them. I had ordered them
about 3 weeks away from a track event thinking
that would be enough to get
them and install them. Since they were not
crossdrilled I had to send
them back and have that done, 1 week gone.
Install them on a weekend before
going to said track event, warpage. It's
all nice of them to say send
them back and we will get you a non warped set,
but time was not on my side
at this point, so I had to eat the $40 to get
them turned. I would say
quality control is somewhat lacking, since they
never even bothered to check
to see if my order was right.
On the good side, once I had them
turned I had a great time at the track
with little or no
fade.
Francis
'96 R/T TT
(SAVC-R BC, Spearco WI, Magnacore wires,
NGK plugs .32, test pipe, Autometer
Boost Gauge, RPS TCC, HKS MegaFlow
intake, freeflow precats, Goodridge Steel
Braided Brake Lines, Porterfield
Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads, 1G DSM
BOV, Ground Control
springs(500/300 F/R), Supra Fuel Pump)
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Thursday,
September 06, 2001 10:02 AM
To: Willis, Charles E.;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
My 2¢ --- Porterfields
response is BS. I can buy Chinese made rotors for $45
or so and I would
expect some quality problems, however when I pay a premium
price I expect a
premium product. I shouldn't be expected to run a QA
analysis
on a product
when I buy it.
I fully agree with Mr. Willis ---- Quality is the
responsibly of the seller,
they should
verify vendor quality and if it's
not acceptable find another vendor. They
sure as
hell shouldn't ship me an
inferior product and then say --- it's not my job
- ---.
I usually
order my rotors when I need them [ If I wanted it tomorrow I'd
order
it
tomorrow ], having to check quality and then send it back for replacement
is
not an option.
Jim
Berry
Geoff --- feel free to forward this to Porterfield and feel free to
mention
the
next
set of rotors will require some thinking --- before this thread
I
just
assumed I would get
Porterfields.
==========================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles E. <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors
Resolution
> In PROACTIVE companies, QC is transparent to
customers because they seldom
> receive flawed products. QC systems
can be set up to SPOT CHECK products
> without checking 100% of the rotors
received. If Porterfield doesn't
check
> the products it receives
from it's vendors, and just tranships them to
it's
> customers, then
Porterfield is acting as little more than a MIDDLEMAN,
with
> little
value added.
>
> Not just slamming Porterfield, it's not a perfect
world, stuff happens.
But
> it's pretty irresponsible to rely on
customer complaints as the primary
> means of detecting flawed
products
>
> Chuck.
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06,
2001 9:50 AM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
> >
They are considering this.
> >
> > Being as they ship hundreds
of sets of rotors per day, this isnt
possible.
> >
> >
FEEDBACK from customers is what does cause checking of specific types
&
> > situations however. The track record from thier
casting/machining
vendors
> > is pretty clean.
> >
>
> Ive had a few of you with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and
one
person
> > got the right BOX, but some other type of rotor in it
(from another
> > mailing list). Thats all ive had in about
$23,000 in orders this year
so
> > far.
> >
> > On
Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> >
> > >
Perhaps Porterfield should consider checking the runout on the rotors
>
> they
> > > receive from the people who make the rotors before
accepting the
> > shipment.
> > >
> > > Some
might call it Quality Control ...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:45:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
Oskar:
Im sorry it
didnt, but anytime I have an issue (or someone I sell to does)
Im on the
phone with Mark and Tim instantly.
I'll do whatever I can while I have
those contacts to help anyone out
whether I sold em or not. You guys
are the people I race and BS with, so
thats my vested interest.
On
Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Oskar wrote:
> Unfortunately for some of us - the
"FEEDBACK" system did not work so well
> about 18 months ago. I
bought my first set of cryo'd Porterfield rotors
> then. I put them
on the car the night before going to the track.
> Immediately upon pulling
out of the driveway I noticed the warping. It was
> Friday evening,
and the people at Porterfield were done working. Since I
> had
prepaid for the track day, and the hotel and such I decided to go
>
anyway.
>
> Back home I called up Porterfield to discuss the
matter. I was told that I
> must have installed them incorrectly -
and that it was my fault. There was
> not even a hint of customer
service attitude in the people I spoke with. As
> a matter of fact,
I was told that Tim would call me back to discuss the
> matter. That
didn't happen. When I finally tracked him down he matter of
> factly
told me that I should NOT have used or turned the rotors, and instead
>
returned them to Porterfield for inspection. He showed no compassion
about
> my situation with an already paid for track event. He also
made it known
> that they had never heard of this type of
problem.
>
> Do not mis-construe this for whining - I am just
telling how I was treated
> by Porterfield. I am glad that they have
improved their "customer service".
>
> My second set of cryo'd
rotors were purchased this spring. I already wrote
> this list about
what happened with those. A quick synopsis: I had a shop
>
measure runout prior to installing - 0.0002. After installing they
warped
> the first time I stepped on the brakes while going over 60
MPH. I followed
> the break-in instructions. Previous stops at
lower speeds did not indicate
> warpage. I had them turned before
the track event and they worked
> flawlessly. (turning cost me
$81.00 as I did not have the time to remove
> them from the car. The
only shop that could do it while I was not working
> was the Mitsu
garage.) Burned from my previous experience with the customer
>
service professionals at Porterfield I have not contacted them about
this
> problem.
>
> Oskar
>
> ----- Original
Message -----
> From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:01 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped
Brake Rotors Resolution
>
>
> > In PROACTIVE companies,
QC is transparent to customers because they seldom
> > receive flawed
products. QC systems can be set up to SPOT CHECK products
> >
without checking 100% of the rotors received. If Porterfield
doesn't
> check
> > the products it receives from it's vendors,
and just tranships them to
> it's
> > customers, then Porterfield
is acting as little more than a MIDDLEMAN,
> with
> > little
value added.
> >
> > Not just slamming Porterfield, it's not a
perfect world, stuff happens.
> But
> > it's pretty irresponsible
to rely on customer complaints as the primary
> > means of detecting
flawed products
> >
> > Chuck.
> >
> > >
-----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September
06, 2001 9:50 AM
> > > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Warped Brake Rotors Resolution
> >
>
> > > They are considering this.
> > >
> >
> Being as they ship hundreds of sets of rotors per day, this isnt
>
possible.
> > >
> > > FEEDBACK from customers is what
does cause checking of specific types &
> > > situations
however. The track record from thier casting/machining
>
vendors
> > > is pretty clean.
> > >
> > >
Ive had a few of you with warp issues (my sincere regrets), and one
>
person
> > > got the right BOX, but some other type of rotor in it
(from another
> > > mailing list). Thats all ive had in about
$23,000 in orders this year
> so
> > > far.
> >
>
> > > On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>
> >
> > > > Perhaps Porterfield should consider checking
the runout on the rotors
> > > they
> > > > receive
from the people who make the rotors before accepting the
> > >
shipment.
> > > >
> > > > Some might call it
Quality Control ...
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#602
***************************************