Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Wednesday, August 29 2001  Volume 01 : Number 593




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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:03:21 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

Does anyone know the vertical position of the Center Of Gravity for a stock
VR4?  The horizontal positions are indicated in the Service Manual.

Chuck (inquiring minds want to know) Willis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:00:53 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipes

Never gutted my rear pre-cat for the last two years of owning the Stillen
DP.  No noticeable problems.  I speculated that perhaps my overboost
characteristics have something to do with the AVCr trying to hold boost at
15psi, but since the rear is choked off compared to the front, but they both
get the same wastegate signal, that the front one is forced to work a little
harder, and its surging.  Thats just an opinion.  It will never be tested
though, cause when the GT357s go in, I will have a pre-cat eliminator for
the back turbo.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd D.Shelton <tds@brightok.net>
To: Team3S List (E-mail) <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Sunday, August 26, 2001 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipes

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gross, Erik <erik.gross@intel.com>
>To: Team3S List (E-mail) <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Date: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:20 PM
>Subject: RE: Team3S: Downpipes
>
>>So with all these posts about downpipes...
>>
>>Is it imperative that you have equal backpressure on both banks' exhaust?
>>For example if you used a downpipe that removes the front and main cat and
>>you *don't* gut your rear pre-cat...  It makes sense that for optimal
>power,
>>you'd want the backpressures to be as close as possible.  I'm wondering if
>>you had significantly more restriction on one bank, would it cause
problems
>>(I don't know - vibrations, engine rocking, etc)?  OTOH, the stock
downpipe
>>presents significantly more resistance to smooth airflow by the 90 degree
>>bend as the banks' exhaust merge.   Anyone have a definitive answer?
>>
>>--Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:00:29 -0700
From: "Michael Hahn" <mmhahn@mindspring.com>
Subject: Team3S: Stealth R/T Turbo - For Sale

92 Stealth R/T Turbo for sale:   Location: Seattle, WA - Description:
Dark Green w/ tan leather interior, fully loaded, AWD, 77,000 miles, all
records since new, oil changes every 3500 miles, beautiful condition in/out,
$11,000  Contact Michael, e-mail - mmhahn@mindspring.com or call
206-300-1894

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:22:05 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

> Does anyone know the vertical position of the Center Of Gravity for a
stock VR4?  The horizontal positions are indicated in the Service Manual.
> Chuck (inquiring minds want to know) Willis
- -----------------------------------

John Monnin posted something along these lines a few months ago...  You have
to weigh the car (both sides separately, or at each wheel) somehow, and then
plug it into some formula (that he offered).  Get in touch with him and
share it with us, SVP.  I've copied him...

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:31:51 -0600
From: "Moe Prasad" <mprasad01@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel Spacer Dilema

Dave,

I have two 3mm spacers from H&R sitting in my garage.  I have a 92 VR4 so
they should fit without any problem.  Send my your address and you can have
them until you get yours from H&R.  When ever you get yours, just ship them
back.  I am in no hurry to get them back.  I do not need them.

Rgds
Moe

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
To: "Team 3S" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:23 PM
Subject: Team3S: Wheel Spacer Dilema


> I've been told by a number of H&R vendors that it's a 6 wk. lead time for
> wheel spacers.  Evidently the entire country of Germany is on vacation
> during August.  As a temporary measure, I've installed 5 flat washers
ground
> to .100 thk. in order to get the caliper clearance I need on the big reds
to
> drive my car.  I'm wandering if it's safe to continue to use this
> arrangement for an upcoming track event.  Can anyone think of a reason why
> using precision flat washers is unacceptable compared to a single H&R
> spacer?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:27:37 EDT
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Help Needed (Fuel and Ignition)

Is it an older (91-93) model? Do you live in a hot climate?
It sounds to me like the classic symptoms of a bad ECU, usually caused by bad capacitors. It will be a $5 to $350 fix depending on how badly the circuit board got "burned" up and how willing you are to mess with it yourself.

Ron

In a message dated Tue, 28 Aug 2001  1:06:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Willard R. Semple" <beowulf@del.net> writes:

> Hello All,
>
> My Stealth TT has had Starting problems for several weeks. It would not
> start easily when sitting in the sun for a few hours. And when it did
> start, it would cut off several times before it would run normally.
> Yesterday, it would not start at all

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:45:48 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Team3S: Wheel Spacers

Wow, what a generous response!  I love this list.  For those who were
wandering, the .1 washers still maintain the hub-centric condition.

Thanks again,
DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:36:18 -0700
From: "Steven M." <nws3@winisp.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pulling Left at High Speeds

Check with local autocrossers, ask them who they use for alignment, when
you hear about 5 people swear by the same shop, take it to them.  They
can probably diagnose your problem even if it's not alignment related.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Payne, Scott
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:49 AM
To: Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Pulling Left at High Speeds

1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo with 71K miles. Symptoms- After EVERY
4
wheel alignment within a week the car is out of align. Almost always
pulling
left. At 65 MPH car will "float". Sometimes middle, sometimes pulls left
and
sometimes pulls right. This behavior changes every few miles. At 80 MPH
and
above car consistently pulls left. Faster I go harder it pulls. I'm
taking
it to a mechanic very soon and just wanted some ideas as to what the
problem
may be.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: 28 Aug 2001 20:02:14 -0700
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

Someone asked me for details on how to find vertical center of gravity for a car.

I posted the information on the 3si board.

http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=fff156a75186f8b5a56fbd5f22af42a4&threadid=43186

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com
1991 VR4 with 4-bolt main conversion almost done.
I got the transmission back in today!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:32:24 EDT
From: The68th@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: 92 Stealth ES - For Sale

I have a blue, 5 speed, 1992 Dodge Stealth ES with 82,000 miles.  I'm looking for $7,200.  It needs the front left ball joint replaced.  I'm just going off to college, have no place for it, and need some money.  Just give me an e-mail if anyone is interested.
Chris

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:24:47 -0400
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Brake Rotor Question

I checked the FAQ, didn't see this mentioned:

I seem to recall earlier discussions about the potential problems of turning
the rotors, something about a step or chamfer on the rotor surface that had
to be maintained.  Am I mis-remembering or is there something to it?

Thanks.

Dennis
93 Stealth ES

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:06:11 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pulling Left at High Speeds

Most AutoX racers are not AWD people and only need a 2-wheel alignment and
not the "special" 4-wheel thrust alignment that we need.  I was at Sears for
mine and they said, "Hmmm.  I don't see it here.  Oh wait.  Here it is.  It
is listed as a 'difficult alignment procedure' and is $90 instead of the
normal price."  My performance shop does it also (to ANY angle specified)
but was booked for two weeks.

I also have some wandering of my car and on some roads (those in Iowa were
nice) the car is perfectly straight for a half mile.  A few miles later it
will steer from the left lane to the right lane in under an 1/8 or 1/4 mile
(maybe that was in Missouri though).  Point is ... the road has something to
do with the feeling.  Steering wheel wobble when the car pulls but perfectly
normal when it goes straight.

Alignment is done so that is not the problem.  Tires are wearing on mine so
it might be a belt starting to show and pull or push to one side.  Also,
under braking it wobbles more than a warped rotor does since it pulls to the
side when braking.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Pittsburgh, PA but put 30k miles on the car with the same tires from
Wisconsin to Iowa to Ocean City to Cape Cod.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven M.
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:36 PM

Check with local autocrossers, ask them who they use for alignment, when
you hear about 5 people swear by the same shop, take it to them.  They
can probably diagnose your problem even if it's not alignment related.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:09:25 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: For Sale: 1995 3000GT Caracas Red Base Model

Manual or automatic?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Adam Kuhn
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:40 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: For Sale: 1995 3000GT Caracas Red Base Model

Hello All,
Well, I have finally decided to do it...due to the recent purchase of my new
2001 Nissan Pathfinder SE, I have decided to sell my 1995 3000GT Caracas Red
Base Model.  I plan to save up my money and purchase a 1994 Dodge Stealth
R/T Twin Turbo Black on Black when I find it.  Basically it comes down to
this...before I bought my Pathfinder, the 3000GT was the only reliable car I
had (also had a Minivan) but now that I have the truck, the car just sits in
my garage under the car cover...basically wasting my money because I was
planning on selling it when I found the Stealth TT I wanted anyway...so here
is the info on it (as if you all don't know it anyway;):

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:13:19 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Bad ISC question....?

Since I have changed the idle a few times (via the idle screw) then how do I
know if it is normally at 1,500 rpm but I have turned it down to 750 rpm?
Can someone tell me how many turns from all the way closed or open the idle
screw is supposed to be?  I think I turned mine all the way shut and then
backed out one or two full turns to get to 750 rpm.  Anyone?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.

You are right to be suspicious of the ISC, but before you invest in a new
one, check for leaks in the intake system.  A leak to ambient air will
simulate the same symptoms, lack of power, hunting for idl (real idle speed
with ac off is 750 rpm +/- 50, default idle speed if the ECU can't get a
stable idle is 1500 rpm)  Check for loose hoses, deteriorated vacuum lines,
and holes in the intercoolers, which someone else described as a cause of
similar problems.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:35:02 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

This is terrific, but how about sharing the results of your measurements and
the condition of the car you measured it on (like gas tank full or empty,
driver in the driver seat, stock suspension setup or lowered, stock or
aftermarket wheels).  I'm guessing in stock condition there isn't a big
difference from one VR4 to another, with the possible exception of 1st gen 5
speed vs. 2nd generation 6 speed.

I think your number would be a useful reference value for the rest of us,
just like the number in the service manual for the horizontal position.

Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Monnin [SMTP:jkmonnin@altavista.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:02 PM
> To: bf@bobforrest.com
> Cc: cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock
>
> Someone asked me for details on how to find vertical center of gravity for
> a car.
>
> I posted the information on the 3si board.
>
> http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=fff156a75186f8b5a56fbd5f22af42a4&t
> hreadid=43186
>
> John Monnin
> jkmonnin@altavista.com
> 1991 VR4 with 4-bolt main conversion almost done.
> I got the transmission back in today!
>
>
> Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
> http://www.shopping.altavista.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:37:46 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

Don't forget about ECS, Active Exhaust, Power/Manual sunroof (and sunroof
installed or removed or stored in trunk), spare tire, CD player in or out,
oil level full, etc.

I know that some things should not affect the vertical center of gravity
(like wheels that are symmetrical in width and height to stock wheels).
See, it doesn't matter how heavy a wheel is as long as there are four of
them the car is in balance but if it is shorter or taller then the vertical
CG will change.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with nearly the highest racing center of gravity possible
(245x40x17 tires, 17" wheels, stock suspension)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.

This is terrific, but how about sharing the results of your measurements and
the condition of the car you measured it on (like gas tank full or empty,
driver in the driver seat, stock suspension setup or lowered, stock or
aftermarket wheels).  I'm guessing in stock condition there isn't a big
difference from one VR4 to another, with the possible exception of 1st gen 5
speed vs. 2nd generation 6 speed.

I think your number would be a useful reference value for the rest of us,
just like the number in the service manual for the horizontal position.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:14:15 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

no, heavier wheels will lower the car's CG if the CG is higher than the
centerline of the hubs as shown in the figure.

Also a full tank of gas will probably lower the CG, because the center of
mass of the tank when full is already lower than the car's CG.  As you
empoty the tank the car's CG probably get higher, because there is less mass
from fuel even though it is acting at a lower center of mass than the full
tank.  I'm thinking the CG measurement should be done with a full tank, else
you get redistribution of the fuel in the tank.

Point is, there are big things that affect CG and small things.  A number
based on a real measurement with a real car would be helpful to the rest of
us who are satisfied with the error involved in approximations.

Chuck
 
>  I know that some things should not affect the vertical center of gravity
> (like wheels that are symmetrical in width and height to stock wheels).
> See, it doesn't matter how heavy a wheel is as long as there are four of
> them the car is in balance but if it is shorter or taller then the
> vertical
> CG will change.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 with nearly the highest racing center of gravity possible
> (245x40x17 tires, 17" wheels, stock suspension)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:11:10 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

Good point.  I was picturing it as the car sitting level instead of on an
incline as in the picture and then the CG might have been closer to the
centerline of the wheel center.  It's all good.

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:14 AM

no, heavier wheels will lower the car's CG if the CG is higher than the
centerline of the hubs as shown in the figure.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:48:10 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: VR4 stock front caliper repair kit (seals and dust boots)

Anybody have a good source besides the dealer for a caliper repair kit for
the VR4 stock front brake calipers (MB857261 Seal Kit)?

My source (O-Reilly's) just dried up.  The smart kid who got the last kit
for me took a job wioth an accounting firm uptown, and no one else can break
the secret code.  They special ordered a kit that turned out to contain 4
dust boots for the 1st gen stock single piston rear calipers, four seals for
the larger diameter pair of front pistons, four boots for the pins on the
1st gen rear floating caliper, and two rubber bushings of the wrong diameter
for the same pins.  The computer listed the kit as "one per car".  Last time
I bought the seal kit from them, there was stuff to rebuild two front
calipers in one kit for $25.

I think the price of the kit at the dealer is about $40 - $50 per caliper.

Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:42:31 -0700
From: "Darc" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch survey

Yo group;

My recent thumb nail survey of RPS users indicates that their Stage2 and
Stage 3 clutches are holding up well. This includes both at the drag strip
and on road courses. Only 2 out of 12 people contacted or who replied, were
unhappy with the product. This may (or may not) have to do with heavy
modifications to their engines or other unknown factors. Others, with
similar mods, including arguably  the fastest strip 3S man around, find no
probs with the product. My survey was based on a need to know if the product
was  suffering from the delamination that occurred with the precursor to the
turbo carbon units now available. No such problem exists and users are happy
with the exception of 2.

Best

Darc

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:33:47 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Rotor Question

You're probably thinking of the flywheel which is stepped and requires that
both surfaces be ground  in order to maintain the proper distances.

        Jim Berry
==============================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis and Anita Moore <stealth@quixnet.net>

> I seem to recall earlier discussions about the potential problems of turning
> the rotors, something about a step or chamfer on the rotor surface that had
> to be maintained.  Am I mis-remembering or is there something to it?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:13:14 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock

There is one thing I would caution you and anyone else about when making
this measurement.  There is a "departure angle" which is the angle from the
bottom of the rear tire to the lower extremity of the rear end of the car
(exhaust pipe or towing points).  Although you get a more accurate
measurement the higher you lift the front of the car, you can't raise is so
high that you exceed the departure angle unless the scales at the rear are
raise above ground level or are on the edge of a dropoff.  From what I've
read, if you can raise the car about 12", you will get a good determination.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Monnin [SMTP:jkmonnin@altavista.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:58 AM
> To: cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org
> Subject: RE: Team3S: trivia question of the day - vertical CG stock
>
> Unfortunately I have not done this on a 3000gt Yet,  Since there is
> interest I might borrow the scales from work and give it a try, after I
> finish rebuilding my car.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:00:30 -0700
From: Robert Koch <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Team3S: spark plug cover plates

I will have about 210 of these ready at the end of the three day.
Stealth
3000gt
vr4
price is still 45.00 shipped to your door with bolts. (48 states) I have
made improvements that would interest others to upgrade. The rear of the
plate is cut-out to clear the plug wires.....this is good because:
1) it's lighter and thinner
2) clears 8.5's without a problem
3) won't retain heat as long
4) bolts are shorter so not to bottom out in the valve cover

if you want your plate you already have cut out on the back I can do that
too.
Here is the deal.........you send me your plate after email confirmation
with me to schedule this. Stick $10.00 in the box (check is ok) for
shipping and machining.

I will have some team3s plates as soon as I get one to bob forrest (next
week) for our board as well.

As soon as my site gets transferred check out eK2mfg.com (tomorrow) for
other stuff.

Email me at ek2mfg@foxinternet.com for orders or info.

Bob K.
93 R/T
FIPK KV85's
Bradi cross drilled rotors
ADR Enigma 17 w/245-45's
Way too much to keep listing now..........

Anyone know about a header set-up for a non-turbo?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:19:26 -0700
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

Darc,

That's still 16.6% of customers who are unsatisfied with the product. Almost 1 in 5. Can you imagine if Intel or IBM, or even McDonalds (okay, that one might not be too unbelievable!) had that type of quality feedback?

I thought of getting an RPS stage 3, but with all the mess flying around a few months back, I decided the odds were just not in my favor for getting a good clutch from RPS.

I have had a number of Centerforce clutches, and have had good luck with all, or at least just a quality product that is capable of handling my basic mods.

Regards,

Dan Jett
94 Stealth RT/TT
San Jose, Ca

>>> "Darc" <wce@telus.net> - 8/29/01 7:42 AM >>>
Yo group;

My recent thumb nail survey of RPS users indicates that their Stage2 and
Stage 3 clutches are holding up well. This includes both at the drag strip
and on road courses. Only 2 out of 12 people contacted or who replied, were
unhappy with the product. This may (or may not) have to do with heavy
modifications to their engines or other unknown factors. Others, with
similar mods, including arguably  the fastest strip 3S man around, find no
probs with the product. My survey was based on a need to know if the product
was  suffering from the delamination that occurred with the precursor to the
turbo carbon units now available. No such problem exists and users are happy
with the exception of 2.

Best

Darc

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:48:04 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

Darc -

Sorry I missed the survey, I have a Stage II and am very happy with it.  I had
one of the bad ones back last year, they replaced all of it under warranty and I
am pleased now.

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White R/T TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)

Darc wrote:

> Yo group;
>
> My recent thumb nail survey of RPS users indicates that their Stage2 and
> Stage 3 clutches are holding up well. This includes both at the drag strip
> and on road courses. Only 2 out of 12 people contacted or who replied, were
> unhappy with the product. This may (or may not) have to do with heavy
> modifications to their engines or other unknown factors. Others, with
> similar mods, including arguably  the fastest strip 3S man around, find no
> probs with the product. My survey was based on a need to know if the product
> was  suffering from the delamination that occurred with the precursor to the
> turbo carbon units now available. No such problem exists and users are happy
> with the exception of 2.
>
> Best
>
> Darc

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:28:02 -0400
From: "Jason Barnhart" <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

In my opinion, the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch is a joke for our cars.
It's way too expensive, it has a full face disk with no option for a 6 puck,
and you can't simply buy a new friction disk when yours starts slipping a
few thousand miles down the road.  Be prepared to buy a whole new clutch
assembly.  I think a satisfaction survey on Centerforce clutches would be
way worse, most DSM guys hate them too.

Jason
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Jett" <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; <wce@telus.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

> Darc,
>
> That's still 16.6% of customers who are unsatisfied with the product.
Almost 1 in 5. Can you imagine if Intel or IBM, or even McDonalds (okay,
that one might not be too unbelievable!) had that type of quality feedback?
>
> I thought of getting an RPS stage 3, but with all the mess flying around a
few months back, I decided the odds were just not in my favor for getting a
good clutch from RPS.
>
> I have had a number of Centerforce clutches, and have had good luck with
all, or at least just a quality product that is capable of handling my basic
mods.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan Jett
> 94 Stealth RT/TT
> San Jose, Ca

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: AmkreadGTO <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: spark plug cover plates (GTO)

Thanks, Robert.

Team3S,

Would anyone else be interested in a "GTO" cover
instead of the "Stealth", "3000GT", "VR4"??  Please
email Robert about it.. I want one! =)

Hope to get 4 more interested..

/George
- --- Robert Koch <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com> wrote:
> Do you really think GTO would be in high demand? I
> can surely draw one up
> and cut it.
> I will have pictures of everything on my site but
> you can look at one on a
> car at
>
> http://members.home.com/anthonymelillo/3000gt.htm
>
>
> these are by far the best plates I've
> seen............If you want to set up
> a group buy for GTO then we can talk about that too.
>  Say 5 plates ordered
> and I'll draw it up and cut it. Same price as listed
> before but I need at
> least 5 to keep the price the same.
>
>
> From: AmkreadGTO [SMTP:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:16 AM
> To: Robert Koch
> Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug cover plates
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Can you make "GTO" plates as well? I think many
> would
> be interested too.. and do u have pix online to show
> ur work?
>
> /George
> --- Robert Koch <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com> wrote:
> > I will have about 210 of these ready at the end of
> > the three day.
> > Stealth
> > 3000gt
> > vr4
> > price is still 45.00 shipped to your door with
> > bolts. (48 states) I have
> > made improvements that would interest others to
> > upgrade. The rear of the
> > plate is cut-out to clear the plug wires.....this
> is
> > good because:
> > 1) it's lighter and thinner
> > 2) clears 8.5's without a problem
> > 3) won't retain heat as long
> > 4) bolts are shorter so not to bottom out in the
> > valve cover
> >
> > if you want your plate you already have cut out on
> > the back I can do that
> > too.
> > Here is the deal.........you send me your plate
> > after email confirmation
> > with me to schedule this. Stick $10.00 in the box
> > (check is ok) for
> > shipping and machining.
> >
> > I will have some team3s plates as soon as I get
> one
> > to bob forrest (next
> > week) for our board as well.
> >
> > As soon as my site gets transferred check out
> > eK2mfg.com (tomorrow) for
> > other stuff.
> >
> > Email me at ek2mfg@foxinternet.com for orders or
> > info.
> >
> > Bob K.
> > 93 R/T
> > FIPK KV85's
> > Bradi cross drilled rotors
> > ADR Enigma 17 w/245-45's
> > Way too much to keep listing now..........
> >
> > Anyone know about a header set-up for a non-turbo?
> >
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
> with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:55:25 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: VR4 stock front caliper repair kit (seals and dust boots)

found a web site "AllOEM parts" that you can do searches on by Mitsubishi
part number - then the order gets filled by a Mitsubishi dealer in Sherman,
Texas.  They listed three different cross index numbers for the kit, and a
list price of $31.98 with an extended price of $27.82.

http://www.oem-car-parts.com/?mitsubishi-accessories.com1

Anybody have a better site, maybe for aftermarket parts?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:48 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: VR4 stock front caliper repair kit (seals and dust boots)
>
> Anybody have a good source besides the dealer for a caliper repair kit for
> the VR4 stock front brake calipers (MB857261 Seal Kit)?
>
> My source (O-Reilly's) just dried up.  The smart kid who got the last kit
> for me took a job wioth an accounting firm uptown, and no one else can
> break the secret code.  They special ordered a kit that turned out to
> contain 4 dust boots for the 1st gen stock single piston rear calipers,
> four seals for the larger diameter pair of front pistons, four boots for
> the pins on the 1st gen rear floating caliper, and two rubber bushings of
> the wrong diameter for the same pins.  The computer listed the kit as "one
> per car".  Last time I bought the seal kit from them, there was stuff to
> rebuild two front calipers in one kit for $25.
>
> I think the price of the kit at the dealer is about $40 - $50 per caliper.
>
> Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:56:17 -0700
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

Jason,

Ever had one?

I have never had a problem with the Centerforce, used them in my DSM days as well. Furthermore, you CAN buy a disk without the pressure plate, as I have done this in the past. Please post facts when you make such a statement. Nothing personal! ; )

What would the benefit be by having a puck style disk over a full face disk? Many clutches are full face, including the stock clutch, which by most accounts is more than ample for light tuning and modifications.

Longevity wise, I have had no problem with the service life of Centerforce clutches either. All of my clutches have lasted in excess of 40k miles, and that's with some pretty hard launches along the way.

As far as cost is concerned, I get two Centerforces for the price of one stock clutch, when you take into account that I can use my pressure plate twice. Last time I checked, the cost from Capitol Mitsubishi, (local dealership, wouldn't endorse them for a million bucks!) for a stock clutch replacement was in excess of $900. I can definitely get a better deal with the Centerforce clutch than even stock!

I am not trying to sell these clutches, only offering my experiences for the benefit of the list.

Regards,

Dan J

>>> "Jason Barnhart" <phnxgld@erols.com> - 8/29/01 10:28 AM >>>
In my opinion, the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch is a joke for our cars.
It's way too expensive, it has a full face disk with no option for a 6 puck,
and you can't simply buy a new friction disk when yours starts slipping a
few thousand miles down the road.  Be prepared to buy a whole new clutch
assembly.  I think a satisfaction survey on Centerforce clutches would be
way worse, most DSM guys hate them too.

Jason
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Jett" <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; <wce@telus.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey


> Darc,
>
> That's still 16.6% of customers who are unsatisfied with the product.
Almost 1 in 5. Can you imagine if Intel or IBM, or even McDonalds (okay,
that one might not be too unbelievable!) had that type of quality feedback?
>
> I thought of getting an RPS stage 3, but with all the mess flying around a
few months back, I decided the odds were just not in my favor for getting a
good clutch from RPS.
>
> I have had a number of Centerforce clutches, and have had good luck with
all, or at least just a quality product that is capable of handling my basic
mods.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan Jett
> 94 Stealth RT/TT
> San Jose, Ca

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:02:10 -0700
From: Robert Koch <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: spark plug cover plates (GTO)

If any one wants a plate that deviates from the big three I have....get 5
or more to order and I'll go for the same price......got a small club and
want a plate for it?......what about a "twin turbo" for those stealth's
that are cooler than me? I can even put your girlfriend's name on it but
you'll need 4 ex-boyfriends to buy the other plates.

- -----Original Message-----
From: AmkreadGTO [SMTP:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:42 AM
To: Robert Koch
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: spark plug cover plates (GTO)

Thanks, Robert.

Team3S,

Would anyone else be interested in a "GTO" cover
instead of the "Stealth", "3000GT", "VR4"??  Please
email Robert about it.. I want one! =)

Hope to get 4 more interested..

/George
- --- Robert Koch <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com> wrote:
> Do you really think GTO would be in high demand? I
> can surely draw one up
> and cut it.
> I will have pictures of everything on my site but
> you can look at one on a
> car at
>
> http://members.home.com/anthonymelillo/3000gt.htm
>
> these are by far the best plates I've
> seen............If you want to set up
> a group buy for GTO then we can talk about that too.
>  Say 5 plates ordered
> and I'll draw it up and cut it. Same price as listed
> before but I need at
> least 5 to keep the price the same.
>
> From: AmkreadGTO [SMTP:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:16 AM
> To: Robert Koch
> Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug cover plates
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Can you make "GTO" plates as well? I think many
> would
> be interested too.. and do u have pix online to show
> ur work?
>
> /George
> --- Robert Koch <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com> wrote:
> > I will have about 210 of these ready at the end of
> > the three day.
> > Stealth
> > 3000gt
> > vr4
> > price is still 45.00 shipped to your door with
> > bolts. (48 states) I have
> > made improvements that would interest others to
> > upgrade. The rear of the
> > plate is cut-out to clear the plug wires.....this
> is
> > good because:
> > 1) it's lighter and thinner
> > 2) clears 8.5's without a problem
> > 3) won't retain heat as long
> > 4) bolts are shorter so not to bottom out in the
> > valve cover
> >
> > if you want your plate you already have cut out on
> > the back I can do that
> > too.
> > Here is the deal.........you send me your plate
> > after email confirmation
> > with me to schedule this. Stick $10.00 in the box
> > (check is ok) for
> > shipping and machining.
> >
> > I will have some team3s plates as soon as I get
> one
> > to bob forrest (next
> > week) for our board as well.
> >
> > As soon as my site gets transferred check out
> > eK2mfg.com (tomorrow) for
> > other stuff.
> >
> > Email me at ek2mfg@foxinternet.com for orders or
> > info.
> >
> > Bob K.
> > 93 R/T
> > FIPK KV85's
> > Bradi cross drilled rotors
> > ADR Enigma 17 w/245-45's
> > Way too much to keep listing now..........
> >
> > Anyone know about a header set-up for a non-turbo?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:58:33 -0400
From: JCourcelle@NerveWire.com
Subject: Team3S: Turbo in an R/T

Greetings.

I have a 1991 Stealth R/T. I was wondering if any of you have had any
experience with installing turbos on this model. Also, if it is possible,
what are some of the risks/drawbacks associated with such a modification
(such as problems with the front assembly dealing with the added torque). I
am in the process of restoring the car and I am looking to increase the HP.

Jeff Courcelle
91 Stealth R/T
Boston, MA

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:12:49 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: VR4 stock front caliper repair kit (seals and dust boots)

Okay, okay, answered my own question -

CARPARTS.COM

Beck Arnley #071-7888 $23.92
Bendix #66146 $32.89
RAYBESTOS #WK2114 = $30.84, but
RAYBESTOS #WK2116 = $18.05

> They listed three different cross index numbers for the kit, and a list
> price of $31.98 with an extended price of $27.82.
>
> Anybody have a better site, maybe for aftermarket parts?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:42:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

The Centerforce DF clutch has served me well with my mild level of
mods and is used by a fellow VR4 owner with extensive mods for three
years of operation including many hard launches at the local strip
(times in mid to upper 12s here at 5800' ASL). I'm not selling this
clutch (in fact I'll use something else when I need to replace it)
just saying that calling it a "joke" is not fair at all.

As far as the matter of 6-pucks being better than full-face consider
this. The amount of force "transferred" between surfaces depends on
the surface area times the coefficient of friction - just like brake
pads and rotors. More surface, then more force. Higher coef. of
friction, then more force. Reduce the surface area - pucks vs.
full-face - then the coef. of friction and/or pressure plate force
must increase to offset this (any coincidence the RPS PP has higher
force than the stock?). Not that this is bad or good, just a
different way of achieving the same goal. I would guess that RPS
wanted to use a certain material for whatever reason (perhaps
superior friction qualities over a broad temperature range) and its
high coef. of friction required the surface area to be reduced to
make the clutch "grab" at a certain level.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Barnhart" <phnxgld@erols.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch survey

In my opinion, the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch is a joke for our
cars. It's way too expensive, it has a full face disk with no option
for a 6 puck, and you can't simply buy a new friction disk when yours
starts slipping a few thousand miles down the road.  Be prepared to
buy a whole new clutch assembly.  I think a satisfaction survey on
Centerforce clutches would be way worse, most DSM guys hate them too.

Jason

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:18:21 -0400
From: Curtis McConnel <CMcConnel@Pulte.com>
Subject: Team3S: Modifications

I am looking into purchasing: Gt Pro 357 mag. turbos, ARC II Fuel
controller, RC 550cc injectors, Denso Fuel Pump, HKS EVC IV, Alcohol
injection and RPS Stage III Clutch. My question is I've been getting package
price quotes from $5200-$6000. Does any one know of other dealer maybe
offering better pricing? If I can afford everything at once it would
probably be the Alcohol I'd leave out. Can I run 18psi without it? Also is
there anyone in Colorado that maybe able to help with installation? Sorry
about the long post just trying to get some good advise.

1995 Vr-4 Spyder
Curtis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #593
***************************************