Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Wednesday, August 15 2001  Volume 01 : Number 578




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:51:00 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Track Report(long): Mmmm.... Brakes For Breakfast, part II

I cooked them myself, and they smell really good!  Want some?

This is all on my web page now, complete with pictures and better
formatting.  Read on if you don't have web access, but if you do, click
here:

http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/DrivingStuff/BR20010810/BR20010810.html

(make it all one line if it isn't in your message)

Part II, since the list server bounced it for being too long...

Some interesting learnings and babblings:

* DON'T lift the throttle in a turn if you think the tail
is getting a little happy!
* DON'T lift the throttle in a turn if you think the tail
is getting a little happy - no, really, don't do that!
* If you barrel into a corner way too fast and turn the
wheels, expecting the car to turn, it won't.  The
understeer fairy sprinkled a lot of dust on the 3000GT.
* Trail-braking into a corner can get you some oversteer
if you want it, and it seemed to be easily controlled
by applying some throttle.  Playing with that on the entrance
to turn 2 was kinda fun.
* Getting the car going fast, being smooth, and handling
neutrally is a wonderful experience.  I did that through
the "S" curves on 3 or 4 laps and it felt SOOOO good.
* Brakes last longer if you just nail them and then get off
rather than slowly easing into them and not using full
pressure.
* Even in mid-90 degree weather, only once did I see the
temperature gauge get above the mid point.  One medium-
speed lap cured that condition.
* Do yourself and the others at the track a favor and
properly break-in your brake pads before the event.
Either cook 'em in the grill or do about four or five
100mph+ to 0 panic stops before the event and then
let the pads cool overnight.  Supposedly, they'll last
longer, but you'll also keep your fellow drivers who are
following you on the track from gagging on the noxious
fumes you'll produce in the braking zones.  Everybody
KNEW when I was on the track during the first two sessions,
whether they could actually see me or not.  Yummy.
* Porterfield rotors and R4S pads can take some pretty serious
abuse.  I'd usually do about 3-5 hot laps before taking
half a lap or so easy to cool things down.  Probably could
have gone longer, but I was trying to be at least a little
"nice" to my car.
* Running this event, my front pads were COOKED.  They began
with a coal-black color and ended up light gray with
white edges.  I believe someone said that according to
Porterfield, that means they exceeded 1400F.  Yikes!
* Valvoline SynPower brake fluid held up pretty well, but I
definitely boiled it as the brakes were a little spongy
and had increased pedal travel after I drove home.  Motul
or ATE Super Blue next time.
* Toyo Proxes FZ4 tires are LOUD.  They talk to you more than
a 15 year-old girl talks on the phone.  When I spun out,
I think people in the next county heard me.
* Said tires have pretty poor traction on the track, so
a set of race tires is definitely in order.
* I ended up putting 92 miles on the car and using
12.5 gallons of gas.  That's 7.4 mpg.
* Limiting myself to 0.7bar (10psi) of boost pressure - "only"
290-300HP - for my first event was probably a good idea.
This car has plenty more power than I know what to do with
... for now.
* I think next time the plan is to use R4 pads, better
brake fluid, and better tires.  I'll also be working on
some brake cooling ducts to get some fresh air to the front
rotors/pads.  I'll probably use either R4 or R4S pads
on the rear brakes as well.  Big Red brakes when I can afford
them. 

How my '95 3000GT VR-4 was set up:

Porterfield Cryo-treated Front Brake Rotors (new)
Porterfield R4S Front Brake Pads (new, mildly bedded)
Front Brake Dust Shields Removed
Valvoline SynPower DOT4 Brake Fluid (complete system bled)
Stock Rear Brakes (with fairly new pads)
K&N Open-Element Air Filter
HKS Turbo Free-flow Exhaust
GReddy PRofecA Boost Controller (set at 0.7bar/10psi)
Stock 18x8.5" Wheels
Toyo Proxes FZ4 Tires (245/45/ZR18)
Front Tire Pressure 42psi (warm)
Rear Tire Pressure 41psi (warm)
Standard (street) Alignment Settings
Windows Open, Sunroof Open (it was friggin' hot!)
50/50 Coolant/Water in Radiator/Block
BG SynchroShift in Transaxle and Transfer Case
Mobil1 75W90 in Rear Differential
Castrol Syntec 5W50 in Crankcase
Full Tank (19.8 gal) of gas

What the Day Cost Me:
$60 entry fee/lunch
$90 R4S pads (about 25% left) rotors are fine
$21 gas
$5 new brake fluid
$30 oil and filter change (synthetic)
$100? about 3000 street-miles' wear on tires
- ----------------------------------------------
$306  Total  ...  worth it?  Of course :-)

- --Erik
"Young Poop In Training"

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:04:07 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Track Report(long): Mmmm.... Brakes For Breakfast, part I

  I spun and ended up to the
>right of the 6th cone of turn 2, pointed toward turn 1, but still on the
>paved part.  That was about a 270 degree spin and I didn't have the presence
>of mind to push the clutch in, so I stalled it and skidded backwards for the
>last 6 feet or so since engines don't like to go backwards. 

When a spin is inevitable, the rule is "both feet in."  That means (1)
depress the clutch with your left foot and (2) slam on the brakes with your
right foot.
You push the clutch in to prevent the engine from running backwards.
You try to lock up the brakes (we can't, of course) to minimize any
untoward action of the car, such as leaping across the track. Watch a
spinning Trans Am or NASCAR car, and you'll see that all four wheels are
locked solid. Once you start a spin, never try to dirt track your way out
of it. You just make it worse. Accept the inevitable and pray that you
don't hit the wall. All the heroic fantastic driving moves you see on TV
are sheer luck (like Danny Sullivan's 360 spin and subsequent win of the
Indy 500).

>I was mildly
>shaken up (more ticked off), but the car started right up and I quickly
>pulled off the track and headed down to the paddock to cool off the
>engine/brakes and think about why I spun. 

More accidents happen on the "last lap" of the day, because of the "red
haze."  It's a good idea to never run the last lap.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:17:59 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Track Report(long): Mmmm.... Brakes For Breakfast, pa rt I

The last driving session of the weekend is like the last ski run of the day
- - the most dangerous.  All the drivers are the most fatigued, and all the
tires and brakes are the most worn.  I don't recommend NOT driving the last
session, just ratchet back a couple of notches and drive parade laps to
reinforce what you learned about the line.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:04 PM
> To: Gross, Erik; 'Team3S List (E-mail)'
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Track Report(long): Mmmm.... Brakes For
> Breakfast, part I
>
>   I spun and ended up to the
> >right of the 6th cone of turn 2, pointed toward turn 1, but still on the
> >paved part.  That was about a 270 degree spin and I didn't have the
> presence
> >of mind to push the clutch in, so I stalled it and skidded backwards for
> the
> >last 6 feet or so since engines don't like to go backwards. 
>
> When a spin is inevitable, the rule is "both feet in."  That means (1)
> depress the clutch with your left foot and (2) slam on the brakes with
> your
> right foot.
> You push the clutch in to prevent the engine from running backwards.
> You try to lock up the brakes (we can't, of course) to minimize any
> untoward action of the car, such as leaping across the track. Watch a
> spinning Trans Am or NASCAR car, and you'll see that all four wheels are
> locked solid. Once you start a spin, never try to dirt track your way out
> of it. You just make it worse. Accept the inevitable and pray that you
> don't hit the wall. All the heroic fantastic driving moves you see on TV
> are sheer luck (like Danny Sullivan's 360 spin and subsequent win of the
> Indy 500).
>
> >I was mildly
> >shaken up (more ticked off), but the car started right up and I quickly
> >pulled off the track and headed down to the paddock to cool off the
> >engine/brakes and think about why I spun. 
>
> More accidents happen on the "last lap" of the day, because of the "red
> haze."  It's a good idea to never run the last lap.
>
> Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

I have the GC kit installed wrong and that is why the ride is so bad
for me.

A fellow Team3S member (thanks Tom) informed me I installed the GC
kit incorrectly. I just called GC and confirmed this. I have the bump
stops on top of the spring top hats. They go inside the springs! I
will correct this soon and let the list know the difference in ride.
Sorry guys.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:53:26 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

Jeff,

I have mine installed properly (f/r 500/300) and I still have that bouncy
effect. Not too happy with this set up.  May have to go with Tein
setup(bummer!)

Francis
'96 R/T TT
(SAVC-R BC, Spearco WI, Magnacore wires, NGK plugs .32, test pipe, Autometer
Boost Gauge, RPS TCC, HKS MegaFlow intake, freeflow precats, Goodridge Steel
Braided Brake Lines, Porterfield Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads, 1G DSM
BOV, Ground Control springs(500/300 F/R), Supra Fuel Pump)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 5:02 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

I have the GC kit installed wrong and that is why the ride is so bad
for me.

A fellow Team3S member (thanks Tom) informed me I installed the GC
kit incorrectly. I just called GC and confirmed this. I have the bump
stops on top of the spring top hats. They go inside the springs! I
will correct this soon and let the list know the difference in ride.
Sorry guys.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:58:27 -0400
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

Hi Chuck,

   I'm afraid that you did not follow the thread correctly.  Ryan was
referring to the stock set-up, not the GC setup.  His (and my) statement are
absolutely correct.

Notice the clip from Ryan's email below:

*********************************
> > >I disagree with the idea that the stock springs might act in both
> > >directions. They are not "captured" in the context that they also work
>in
> > >tension. They would have to be physically tied to the strut top and
> > bottom
> > >seats for this to happen. They are not, they just press against them.
*********************************

Notice the usage of the word "stock", not GC.  Since the springs are not
physically "tied" to the spring perches, they cannot act against a rarifying
(sp?) action of the strut setup.  In reality, the stock shocks  accelerate
the rarification of the strut.

Regards,
   Dennis

>Dennis,
>
>That is absolutely incorrect - the maximum extension of the struts can
>EASILY exceed the maximum height of the springs supplied with the GC kit.
>All you have to do is jack up the car to see this, or look at the completed
>strut assembly with the GC installed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Margrave <davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rotor warp

140 to 115?

with stock rotors?

My guess is the fronts are toast.  You could get them turned, but they
would probably warp again almost immediately.

I've had powerslot rotors that were supposed to be awesome.  They warped
after 10,000 miles or so of moderate usage.  In my opinion, they're
garbage.  Others on the list have horror stories about powerslots falling
apart during heavy braking.

My latest setup is cryo-treated porterfields with carbon kevlar pads on
the front.  The rear is stock.  I haven't had them long enough to give a
full endorsement, but so far so good.


On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Desert Fox wrote:

> I was decelerating a week and a half ago from 140mph and noticed a bit of
> steering wheel shimmy when applying the brakes to slow down to 115mph  or so
> for the approaching turn. I suspect at least one warped rotor. What should I
> check first? Fronts then rear? How exactly do I determine warpage? If I find
> a warped rotor, is replacement the only solution? Do I need to replace both
> front or both rear together or can they all be independently replaced?
>
> TIA.
>
> --
> Paul/.
> 95 black 3000GT VR-4
> 98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
> formerly reasonable and prudent

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:33:40 -0500
From: "Berrios, Victor L  CIV" <VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
Subject: Team3S: Don't buy from BOZZPERFORMANCE

I placed an order back in May to this company (Paid 50% $438.00) for a Kaze
Type I Wind.  They said it should arrive the second week of June. I called
them the last week of June and they said it will take two more weeks (around
July 15).  By the end of July, I called and e-mailed them with no success. I
have been calling and e-mailing them with no response. I even told them I
would accept any other comparable product in exchange. No response.  Last
week I hear in their voice mail they were moving or relocating in the
area.????

If you were considering them for your future parts, Don't even think about
them!!!  They have my money for over 3 1/2 months now!!!!!

Don't support BOZZPERFORMANCE.

Please help me on this one. 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:59:27 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

You are absolutely right that I didn't follow the thread correctly.  To do
so, I would have had to start reading at the bottom of the thread, disregard
the subject line, and do a psychic link to insert the word "stock" in your
text, instead of dredging it up from Ryan's message.

You know the effects of Altzheimer's are insidious - you youngsters need to
give us old farts some slack here!

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dg B [SMTP:dbretton@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:58 PM
> To: cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org
> Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
>    I'm afraid that you did not follow the thread correctly.  Ryan was
> referring to the stock set-up, not the GC setup.  His (and my) statement
> are
> absolutely correct.
>
> Notice the clip from Ryan's email below:
>
> *********************************
> > > >I disagree with the idea that the stock springs might act in both
> > > >directions. They are not "captured" in the context that they also
> work
> >in
> > > >tension. They would have to be physically tied to the strut top and
> > > bottom
> > > >seats for this to happen. They are not, they just press against them.
> *********************************
>
> Notice the usage of the word "stock", not GC.  Since the springs are not
> physically "tied" to the spring perches, they cannot act against a
> rarifying
> (sp?) action of the strut setup.  In reality, the stock shocks  accelerate
>
> the rarification of the strut.
>
> Regards,
>    Dennis
>
> >Dennis,
> >
> >That is absolutely incorrect - the maximum extension of the struts can
> >EASILY exceed the maximum height of the springs supplied with the GC kit.
> >All you have to do is jack up the car to see this, or look at the
> completed
> >strut assembly with the GC installed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:29:04 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: Lone Star Region PCA DE Schedule for 2002

Ladies and Gentlemen, (bad) Boys and Girls,

The following dates have been announced for the LSR Region High Speed
Drivers Education events at Texas World Speedway in lovely College Station,
Texas for the year of our Lord 2002:

Jan 19-20
Mar 2-3
Mar 22, 23, 24
Jun 8-9
Sep 7-8
Nov 16-17

don't take my word for it - check the web site.

http://www.lsrpca.com/

And don't forget the remaining events for 2001
Sep 8-9
Oct 20-21
Dec 1-2

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:29:34 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Don't buy from BOZZPERFORMANCE

Hey, Victor,

Hopefully, you followed the rule for mail order or web purchasing and ONLY
paid by credit card.  If you paid by credit card, all you have to do is call
the CC company and ask them to credit your account, stating that goods were
not received and the company is unreachable.  Call the CC company NOW!

I tried calling BOZZ (510) 657-4393 , and I got a recording from August 10
that they are remodeling, so obviously, it is taking longer than they
planned, and the people who take the calls are probably not even working in
the shop until their store is finished.  I'd wait a few more days, but if
you want to get action before that, go to the web registration site
http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois and look up the
registration info for www.bozzperformance.com .  It will give you name and
phone number of the people own BOZZ, hopefully.

Good luck!

Forrest

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Berrios, Victor L CIV" <VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 12:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: Don't buy from BOZZPERFORMANCE

> I placed an order back in May to this company (Paid 50% $438.00) for a
Kaze
> Type I Wind.  They said it should arrive the second week of June. I called
> them the last week of June and they said it will take two more weeks
(around
> July 15).  By the end of July, I called and e-mailed them with no success.
I
> have been calling and e-mailing them with no response. I even told them I
> would accept any other comparable product in exchange. No response.  Last
> week I hear in their voice mail they were moving or relocating in the
> area.????
>
> If you were considering them for your future parts, Don't even think about
> them!!!  They have my money for over 3 1/2 months now!!!!!
>
> Don't support BOZZPERFORMANCE.
>
> Please help me on this one.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:33:15 +0300
From: "Oleg Reznik" <Oleg@3000gt.lv>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

Hello guys,

I also installed GC month ago and also have that bouncy
effect. I think, it's dangerous drive car with GC coilovers. I talked with
Tein and will receive HA dampers next week. I can't drive my car, it's like
frog.

Oleg Reznik
3SI#0441
www.3000gt.lv


> Hi Chuck,
>
>    I'm afraid that you did not follow the thread correctly.  Ryan was
> referring to the stock set-up, not the GC setup.  His (and my) statement
are
> absolutely correct.
>
> Notice the clip from Ryan's email below:
>
> *********************************
> > > >I disagree with the idea that the stock springs might act in both
> > > >directions. They are not "captured" in the context that they also
work
> >in
> > > >tension. They would have to be physically tied to the strut top and
> > > bottom
> > > >seats for this to happen. They are not, they just press against them.
> *********************************
>
> Notice the usage of the word "stock", not GC.  Since the springs are not
> physically "tied" to the spring perches, they cannot act against a
rarifying
> (sp?) action of the strut setup.  In reality, the stock shocks  accelerate
> the rarification of the strut.
>
> Regards,
>    Dennis
>
> >Dennis,
> >
> >That is absolutely incorrect - the maximum extension of the struts can
> >EASILY exceed the maximum height of the springs supplied with the GC kit.
> >All you have to do is jack up the car to see this, or look at the
completed
> >strut assembly with the GC installed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:02:02 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?

DANGEROUS?  Is it dangerous to drive with the ECS in Sport Mode?  That's the
equivalent ride to mine.

What are the markings on your front and rear Eibach springs and what ride
height are you running?

O'starozynya Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oleg Reznik [SMTP:Oleg@3000gt.lv]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:33 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control - how hard to install?
>
>
> Hello guys,
>
> I also installed GC month ago and also have that bouncy
> effect. I think, it's dangerous drive car with GC coilovers. I talked with
> Tein and will receive HA dampers next week. I can't drive my car, it's
> like
> frog.
>
> Oleg Reznik
> 3SI#0441
> www.3000gt.lv

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #578
***************************************