Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, August 1
2001 Volume 01 : Number
565
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Dear Team3S
Members:
I agree with the statement to the effect that braking ability is
a
safety measure, and that being able to safely control you speed
under
braking is more important that going fast. This is true
whether
driving on the street or on the race track.
That being said,
it is my general policy not to make public statements
on other manufacturer's
products on a comparison basis to our own
offerings. What I will say is
that the Porterfield R4/R4S is a good,
stable compound. It will provide
much improved braking over your OEM
brake pads, both on the street and on the
track. If you are looking
for a "good street/occasional track use brake
pads", the Porterfield
R4S will certainly fit the bill. Keep in mind
that when evaluating the
braking performance of a car, after a certain point
in upgrading the
various components of the braking system itself, the
limiting factor
becomes the tires (tire compound).
Carbotech
Engineering's Panther Plus and Panther compounds are designed
as racing
compounds (autocross, rally, road race) which can also be
driven on the
street with excellent results. They are both very rotor
friendly.
The P+ has an operating range of 200F to 1300F, and the
Panther operates from
200F to 1100F. The coefficient of friction on
the P+ is 0.54-0.56, and
the Panther is 0.52-0.54. The P+ has
excellent initial bite, while the
Panther has a smoother initial bite;
both pads offer excellent modulation and
release characteristics.
Carbotech Engineering also has a full line of
dedicated street and
autocross compounds. In order to determine your
application, please
give me a call so I can recommend the proper setup (e.g.
different
compounds front and rear based on the weigh of your car, your
driving
style, the type of driving you will be doing, etc.).
FYI, I am
presently redesigning our website to offer a new look and
also a wealth of
information about our product offerings; there will
also be technical test
data on our compounds for your reference. I
feel that it is important
to "educate" the customer, so they are better
able to diagnose their own
braking problems and understand the braking
process itself. Our web
address is
www.carbotecheng.com , but
the new
website will not be online for another 3-4 weeks as we await
the
installation of a high-speed internet connection. I will post
an
update when the new website becomes available.
If you would like to
discuss Carbotech Engineerings product offerings,
or discuss products which
are available from other manufacturer's,
please feel free to call me at
877-899-5024.
Go fast... Stop fast... BE THE
PAD...
=====
andie w lin | e-mail:
andiewlin@yahoo.comvp of marketing
& new product development
- -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n
g-
1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
work: 954.493.9669 | mobile:
734.678.8292
"Bring your speed into F O C U S . . .
"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:15:43
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Andie,
>
Keep in mind that when evaluating the
> braking performance of a car,
after a certain point in upgrading the
> various components of the braking
system itself, the limiting factor
> becomes the tires (tire
compound).
Welcome to the list and thanks for posting to let
us know you are alive
and willing to discuss issues with us. I
personally look forward to
learning a lot from your work with Chuck and
perhaps others on the list.
I will also ask for a show of hands
of anyone who has had tires become
the weak link in braking?
Anyone? Bueller? Nope, didn't think so. I
don't think we
will ever be able to brake SO hard that the tires start
screeching to a
halt. Sure I can get the ABS to kick in on a good day and
street tires
but that is what it is meant to do. With race rubber (Yoko
A032 or
Kumho V700) I have not been able to invoke the ABS under
braking.
Going to larger and larger brakes, rotors, and pads
will mean that the
suspension will need upgraded - not the tires. You
can't very well turn a
corner at 120 mph on street tires so you have to slow
down to 60 mph. If by
slowing down to 60 mph you break things like
suspension then you won't make
the turn-in. Adding race tires will let
you corner at 80 mph but you might
still break things when trying to slow
down. (Or you can modify suspension
to help corner
better.)
Just trying to give some other views to those who
are reading.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 with Big Reds, Pagid Orange pads, SS
lines, Porterfield rotors,
Pirelli P-Zero street tires, Yoko A032 race tires,
and stock suspension
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:39:16
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake
pad?
Flash,
Besides cornering, the grip of street tires also
limits your ability to slow
down, as well as to accelerate.
We had an
interesting discussion about whether ABS should or should not kick
in during
routine braking at the track. There are only a few turns at Texas
World
Speedway where threashold braking is needed, that's the amount of
braking
where you are close to locking up the wheels, so ABS kicks in.
The
discussion was whether I was overbraking, maybe I am. It is much
easier to
get ABS to kick in with pads that have better grip.
As my
son said when I bragged about feeling ABS on the braking zone for Turn
2 at
TWS, "Yep, that's all the brakes you've got". Sobering
thought.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren
Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001
9:16 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional
track use brake pad?
>
> Andie,
>
> > Keep in mind
that when evaluating the
> > braking performance of a car, after a
certain point in upgrading the
> > various components of the braking
system itself, the limiting factor
> > becomes the tires (tire
compound).
>
> Welcome to the list and thanks for
posting to let us know you are alive
> and willing to discuss issues with
us. I personally look forward to
> learning a lot from your work
with Chuck and perhaps others on the list.
> I will also
ask for a show of hands of anyone who has had tires become
> the weak link
in braking? Anyone? Bueller? Nope, didn't think so.
I
> don't think we will ever be able to brake SO hard that the tires
start
> screeching to a halt. Sure I can get the ABS to kick in on a
good day and
> street tires but that is what it is meant to do. With
race rubber (Yoko
> A032 or Kumho V700) I have not been able to invoke the
ABS under braking.
> Going to larger and larger brakes,
rotors, and pads will mean that the
> suspension will need upgraded - not
the tires. You can't very well turn a
> corner at 120 mph on street
tires so you have to slow down to 60 mph. If
> by
> slowing
down to 60 mph you break things like suspension then you won't
>
make
> the turn-in. Adding race tires will let you corner at 80 mph
but you
> might
> still break things when trying to slow down.
(Or you can modify
> suspension
> to help corner better.)
>
> Just trying to give some other views to those who are
reading.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 with Big Reds, Pagid Orange
pads, SS lines, Porterfield rotors,
> Pirelli P-Zero street tires, Yoko
A032 race tires, and stock suspension
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:43:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake
pad?
> I will also ask for a show of hands of anyone
who has had tires
> become the weak link in braking? Anyone?
Bueller? Nope, didn't
> think so. I don't think we will ever
be able to brake SO hard that
> the tires start screeching to a
halt. Sure I can get the ABS to kick
> in on a good day and street
tires but that is what it is meant to do.
> With race rubber (Yoko
A032 or Kumho V700) I have not been able to
> invoke the ABS under
braking.
- ---
You still on stock calipers? It can happen.
Ive done
it on mu Supra on race tires on tracks, the RX7 will trigger ABS
on a cold
day on asphalt tracks if I try hard enough..
As you upgrade to larger
rotors..this can become more of an issue as well
as the leverage
increases.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:35:07
-0700
From: Robert Koch <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
with a stock
braking system at SIR it will engage at 3a and 3b. but thats at SIR
On
Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:43 AM, Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com] wrote:
> > I will
also ask for a show of hands of anyone who has had tires
> > become the
weak link in braking? Anyone? Bueller? Nope, didn't
>
> think so. I don't think we will ever be able to brake SO hard
that
> > the tires start screeching to a halt. Sure I can get the
ABS to kick
> > in on a good day and street tires but that is what it
is meant to do.
> > With race rubber (Yoko A032 or Kumho V700) I
have not been able to
> > invoke the ABS under braking.
>
---
> You still on stock calipers? It can happen.
>
> Ive
done it on mu Supra on race tires on tracks, the RX7 will trigger ABS
> on
a cold day on asphalt tracks if I try hard enough..
>
> As you
upgrade to larger rotors..this can become more of an issue as well
> as
the leverage increases.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:45:10
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
I'm sorry you are not
awake enough to read my signature.
Plain-as-friggin-day my boy ... "BIG
REDS." So no I am not on stock
calipers anymore. Have another
question now?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
[mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:43
AM
You still on stock calipers? It can happen.
Ive done it on mu
Supra on race tires on tracks, the RX7 will trigger ABS
on a cold day on
asphalt tracks if I try hard enough..
As you upgrade to larger
rotors..this can become more of an issue as well
as the leverage
increases.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:48:38
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
I am not sure I got
it to kick in with BIG REDS at Mid-Ohio after the
backstretch. Slamming
the brake pedal at 120 mph and stock suspension tends
to throw a lot of
weight toward the front of the car. The rear got light
and wanted to
waggle and that was not a good feeling so I did not do
that
again.
Only when I brake from 80-0 can I get ABS to kick in at
the last minute. On
track speeds I am not going lower than 40-80 mph so
I can't get ABS to kick
in yet. Maybe that is good since that would be
an indication that that is
the limit of the brakes.
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4 with Big Reds
- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Koch
[mailto:eK2mfg@foxinternet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:35
AM
To: 'Geoff Mohler'; Darren Schilberg
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
with a stock braking system
at SIR it will engage at 3a and 3b. but thats at
SIR
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:44:47
-0400
From: "Michael Bulaon" <
profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject:
Team3S: HKS VPC vs. ARC2
I looking to get either one to effectively
tune my 550cc injectors. I'd
appreciate any info from anyone owning either
the VPC or ARC2.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:47:37
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Andie:
Several
of us with Stealths and VR4s run Big Red Porsche calipers (Porsche
part
#s: 993-351-425-10 and 993-351-426-10) with an assortment of
pads:
Pagid Blacks, Pagid Orange and (in my case) Hawk Blues.
I've
noticed that the Blues destroy my rotors on the street (very nasty to
the
rotor when they are cold) and the Pagid Blacks dust something fierce on
the
street, so I run stock Porsche pads on the street.
Another problem is a
slight overlap of the pads to the rotor; i.e., the
pads are a teeny bit
bigger than the rotor, so we get a 1/8 in. or so
overlap. After a day of
track running, the pad is hooking over the edge of
the rotor. Not a big
problem, but a little annoying. I take my race pads
out on the last day and
replace them with stock Porsche pads, then grind
down the offending overlap
before using them again. Most of us Big Red
users get 2+ events out of a set
of pads.
What do you have that would be suitable for our kind of track
use? How
much for a set of front pads?
Rich 94 3000GT VR4
Big
Reds, Hawk Blues, SS lines, air ducts, water injection, Ford High
Performance
brake fluid.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:53:42
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
*sigh* Come on,
Chuck. You aren't that blind are you? I use track tires
on the
track and street tires on the street. Once I go to track tires then
I
can't change to something better and need to go back to using brakes to
slow
down for a corner (since we can't change suspension settings while
driving
yet).
I think this discussion has taken a turn off of the subject.
I'll drop it
for now since the point has been lost.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001
10:39 AM
Flash,
Besides cornering, the grip of street tires also
limits your ability to slow
down, as well as to accellerate.
We had an
interesting discussion about whether ABS should or should not kick
in during
routine braking at the track. There are only a few turns at Texas
World
Speedway where threashold braking is needed, that's the amount of
braking
where you are close to locking up the wheels, so ABS kicks in.
The
discussion was whether I was overbraking, maybe I am. It is much
easier to
get ABS to kick in with pads that have better grip.
As my
son said when I bragged about feeling ABS on the braking zone for Turn
2 at
TWS, "Yep, that's all the brakes you've got". Sobering
thought.
Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:27:00
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Okay, some of you
smarter guys, explain to me about ABS: does it activate
on speed or by
CHANGE in speed?
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Wednesday,
August 01, 2001 9:49 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Good
street/occasional track use brake pad?
>
> I am not sure I got it
to kick in with BIG REDS at Mid-Ohio after the
> backstretch.
Slamming the brake pedal at 120 mph and stock suspension
> tends
>
to throw a lot of weight toward the front of the car. The rear got
light
> and wanted to waggle and that was not a good feeling so I did not
do that
> again.
>
> Only when I brake from 80-0 can I get
ABS to kick in at the last minute.
> On
> track speeds I am not
going lower than 40-80 mph so I can't get ABS to
> kick
> in
yet. Maybe that is good since that would be an indication that that
is
> the limit of the brakes.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
with Big Reds
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert
Koch [mailto:eK2mfg@foxinternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001
10:35 AM
> To: 'Geoff Mohler'; Darren Schilberg
> Cc: Team3S
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
>
> with a stock braking system at SIR it will engage at 3a and 3b. but
thats
> at SIR
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:21:46
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
> Okay, some
of you smarter guys, explain to me about ABS:
> does it activate on
speed or by CHANGE in speed?
It activates when it sees a significant
difference in rotational rates
between wheels, amongst other
things.
Jeff's Technical Manual pages explain it in much greater
detail:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-stim.htmBasically,
if you are able to get the ABS to come on then you could make use
of better
tires. If you can't get the ABS to engage, then you could make
use of
better brakes. The key is to find a balance for your driving style
and
wallet thickness.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:26:06
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: ABS (was: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?)
I am
responding but am in no way a smarter person.
ABS has several things
happening. I believe in our cars it is a 3-channel
system (someone
correct me if I am wrong). Two channels are the front left
and front
right and one channel is the rear wheels. Expensive cars
(Cadillac,
Mercedes, etc.) have 4-channel systems which mean a separate
channel on each
wheel. At least, this is what I read in a Allied
Signal/Bendix book
about our braking system.
Anyway, the ABS has some things such as the
speed the wheel is going around
(that ABS wire near the wheel) and it shoots
light or a magnetic field at
the wheel and can tell how fast the wheel is
turning or not turning.
There is also a yaw sensor and a G-force sensor
(I forget if there is one
for front to back Gs as well as sideways Gs or just
sideways). But these
all kick in. For example, the ABS will not
kick in if your car is sliding
completely sideways through a snow-covered
parking lot since the wheels are
not travelling forward. If, however,
you drive forward and then slide
sideways (with wheels still rotating
forward) and brakes are applied then
the ABS should try to kick in. Or
gravel or water. Give it a shot ...
safely.
But in general the
brain talks to the other wheels and if the front left is
slipping then it
knows this. Some cars limit the drive to this wheel, some
cars apply
the brakes to this wheel. Regardless it knows the difference
between
front left and front right. The rear wheels I think work together
...
yes ... even on the AWD models. I have not found anything to say
the
AWD cars have a 4-channel setup so I think it is still only
3-channels.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001
11:27 AM
Okay, some of you smarter guys, explain to me about ABS:
does it activate
on speed or by CHANGE in
speed?
Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:30:28
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: ABS
Sorry -- Jeff's manual says this. I was a little mixed
up on them (the
words as well as what cars had what). Thanks for having
it Jeff. Thanks
for reminding me where it was Matt.
"The FWD
model is a 4-sensor, 3-channel system and the AWD is a 4-sensor,
2-channel
system."
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:18:35
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Neither ---- there are
rotation sensors on each wheel that determine
if the wheel is still rotating,
if it's not rotating then the ABS pump
intercedes by releasing pressure on
the affected circuit until the tire
starts to rotate again.
Below is a
response I sent to Jeff Lucius about what I consider a
problem with our ABS
systems --- I have no solution, just
questions.
Jim
Berry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To: Jim
Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
>
From the TIM (p. 5-22):
>
> "The AWD ABS is a 4 sensor, 2 channel
system and is the same as the 4
> sensor, 3 channel system on the FWD
models except for the following
> <clip>
>The
"select-low valve" prevents the lockup of one rear
> wheel. "Consequently,
a total of three wheels - the front or left
> wheel and the rear right and
left wheels - are controlled
> hydraulically at the same time." (TIM, p
5-25).
====================================================
Jeff
The
last paragraph is the one that bothers me ---- the wording is weird but
it
sounds like, if a rear wheel locks up then you lose the other rear and one
of
the fronts. If you increase the braking on the rear, bigger calipers
and
rotors, you have a much greater chance of locking up a rear wheel
which
under heavy braking probably only provides 10% to 15% of the
stopping
power. When one rear locks [15%] you lose the other rear [15%] and
one
front [35%] ----65% of your braking is being modulated even though
you're
only having trouble with 15%.
That would also explain the
problems Merrit had when he broke a rotor, the
ABS system released 65% or
more of his stopping power when the broken
rotor stopped turning ---- the
remaining front would overheat and lose it's
effectiveness in a second or
two.
P.S. I started reading your doctorial thesis on the vcu ---- I
haven't gotten
through the equations yet, at my age I get a headache when I
think too long.
I find it hard to believe I used to whip through that stuff
---- once in a while I'll
look through one of my old engineering texts and
marvel at how smart I was.
Jim Berry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles E. <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Okay, some of you smarter guys, explain to me about ABS: does it
activate
> on speed or by CHANGE in speed?
>
>
Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:14:42
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Sure.
Reds?
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Darren Schilberg wrote:
> I'm sorry
you are not awake enough to read my signature.
> Plain-as-friggin-day my
boy ... "BIG REDS." So no I am not on stock
> calipers
anymore. Have another question now?
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001
10:43 AM
>
> You still on stock calipers? It can happen.
>
> Ive done it on mu Supra on race tires on tracks, the RX7 will trigger
ABS
> on a cold day on asphalt tracks if I try hard enough..
>
> As you upgrade to larger rotors..this can become more of an issue as
well
> as the leverage increases.
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:53:29
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Whether or not the ABS
being invoked when you hammer your 'upgraded'
brakes has been talked about
before. I'm not sure about stock systems, if
you're interested try it
yourself.
I have the Reds, Porterfield R4 pads and Porterfield rotors
---- when I hammer
the brakes at the end of a straight I'll get a short
squeal or two from the tires
as it stops but no vibration of the pedal that
is the classic response from the
ABS when modulating --- however the ABS is
working ----. Try removing the
10 Amp ABS fuse from the fuse box in the
engine compartment and then
see how easy it is to lock up your tires, you can
grind them flat if you wish.
Do not attempt to remove the 60 Amp fusible link
in the fuse box --- it's
bolted in and has to be removed by removing a
couple of 4mm bolts.
I flat-spotted [ fronts only ] an almost new set of
Yokohama AVS Sport tires
a year or two ago when I overcooked a corner with
the ABS disabled. The
black streaks were 100 feet long --- I kept releasing
pressure on the pedal
but since I had hammered the brakes I needed to release
much more
pressure than I was used to using before ABS was
invented.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: Team3S
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
I am not sure I got it to kick in with BIG REDS at Mid-Ohio after the
>
backstretch. Slamming the brake pedal at 120 mph and stock suspension
tends
> to throw a lot of weight toward the front of the car. The
rear got light
> and wanted to waggle and that was not a good feeling so I
did not do that
> again.
>
> Only when I brake from 80-0 can
I get ABS to kick in at the last minute. On
> track speeds I am not
going lower than 40-80 mph so I can't get ABS to kick
> in yet.
Maybe that is good since that would be an indication that that is
> the
limit of the brakes.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:31:01
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
It activates when
it think a wheel is going slower than the rest of the
car is. IE: Lockup
condition.
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>
Okay, some of you smarter guys, explain to me about ABS: does it
activate
> on speed or by CHANGE in speed?
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:49
AM
> > To: Team3S
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Good
street/occasional track use brake pad?
> >
> > I am not sure
I got it to kick in with BIG REDS at Mid-Ohio after the
> >
backstretch. Slamming the brake pedal at 120 mph and stock
suspension
> > tends
> > to throw a lot of weight toward the
front of the car. The rear got light
> > and wanted to waggle and
that was not a good feeling so I did not do that
> > again.
>
>
> > Only when I brake from 80-0 can I get ABS to kick in at the
last minute.
> > On
> > track speeds I am not going lower than
40-80 mph so I can't get ABS to
> > kick
> > in yet.
Maybe that is good since that would be an indication that that is
> >
the limit of the brakes.
> >
> > --Flash!
> > 1995
VR-4 with Big Reds
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Robert Koch [mailto:eK2mfg@foxinternet.com]
> > Sent:
Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:35 AM
> > To: 'Geoff Mohler'; Darren
Schilberg
> > Cc: Team3S
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Good
street/occasional track use brake pad?
> >
> >
> >
with a stock braking system at SIR it will engage at 3a and 3b. but
thats
> > at
> > SIR
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:15:36
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: race
tires
Much has been said about the virtues of various track tires ---
Kumho's and
Yokohama most often, what I'd like to know is what you folks know
about the
Hoosier R3S03 and the Goodyear GS-CS [ not the OEM Corvette
tire
].
From what I can gather on the internet the Hoosier and Goodyear are
generally rated above the Kumho's, Toyo's and yoko's. Any comments
from
people that have used them ---- why would I use or not use race tires
from
those folks.
PS: the Hoosiers, I realize, are not DOT approved,
but mine will be a race only
application.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:51:56
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: race tires
Hoosiers dont like heavy cars..they
just dont.
They do everything quicker..incluiding flat spot and wear
out.
Goodyear, I dunno.
Kumho has a new V700 coming out in a few
months as well.
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Jim Berry wrote:
> Much has
been said about the virtues of various track tires --- Kumho's and
>
Yokohama most often, what I'd like to know is what you folks know about
the
> Hoosier R3S03 and the Goodyear GS-CS [ not the OEM Corvette
>
tire ].
>
> >From what I can gather on the internet the Hoosier
and Goodyear are
> generally rated above the Kumho's, Toyo's and yoko's.
Any comments from
> people that have used them ---- why would I use or not
use race tires from
> those folks.
>
> PS: the Hoosiers, I
realize, are not DOT approved, but mine will be a race
only
> application.
>
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:17:26
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Good street/occasional track use brake pad?
Mr. Lin: Thank
you for the information you provided on brake pads. The
various
specifications you provided are interesting, and at least as to me,
new
information. I am glad to see you were able to work things out with
Dr.
Willis and welcome you to our list.
Andy Woll
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:03:38
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: race tires
My son and I have been using Yoko
032R's exclusively on the track for four
seasons. They were recommended
to us because they have a less stiff
sidewall than the Goodyear and Hoosier
tires, so there is a more gradual
transition to a slide, which would be safer
for us as greenhorns. They are
also a harder compund, so they wear
better than Goodyear and Hoosier tires,
although I'm sure they also have less
grip for the same reason. The Yoko
032R's have enough tread to make
them reliable on a wet track, as opposed to
Hoosier slicks. We don't
have enough money to maintain two wheel sets of
tires, so we needed something
that worked in wet and dry.
My best friend and his wife corded a set of
Hoosiers in two DE weekends on a
Porsche 911. Both are
instructors. I think he switched to Kumhos and he is
pleased with
them.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim
Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:16
PM
> To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
3S-Racers: race tires
>
> Much has been said about the virtues of
various track tires --- Kumho's
> and
> Yokohama most often, what
I'd like to know is what you folks know about
> the
> Hoosier R3S03
and the Goodyear GS-CS [ not the OEM Corvette
> tire ].
>
>
From what I can gather on the internet the Hoosier and Goodyear are
>
generally rated above the Kumho's, Toyo's and yoko's. Any comments from
>
people that have used them ---- why would I use or not use race tires
from
> those folks.
>
> PS: the Hoosiers, I realize, are not
DOT approved, but mine will be a race
>
only
> application.
>
>
> Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:30:38
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: race tires
I've been running the A032 for track and street ---
I recently completed my
acquisition of a spare set of rims which allows me to
have a set of race tires
and a set of street tires ---- A032's and 17" 1994
VR4 rims for street and my
Enkie RP01's with ????? tires for the
track.
For the ????? tires I was initially looking at the V700 Kumho's [
$175 shaved
and heat cycled ], but got sidetracked by looking at the Goodyear
GS-CS
race tire [ $210 ] and the Hoosier [$200]. During my quest for the most
bang
for the buck I found a source for used race tires and found Hoosiers for
$65
to $80 for ¾ tread and full tread respectively. He also has the
Goodyear's
available [ none right now ] so I figured for about the price of
two new tires
I could get four used tires and see if it's worth the effort.
The 'full' tread tires
come from guys running the Motorola cup who change
tires every time they
go out ---- I'll probably give it a try, hell it's
'only' $400 or so. My concern is
that the tires will only make it a weekend
or less --- if I could get two weekends
out of them and they have superior
performance I'd consider it a
success.
Jim
Berry
====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
<
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: 3S-Racers: race
tires
> I've run both the Yoko 032R and Kuhmo
V700.
>
> The Yoko is a great tire, very predictable, and wears like
iron. I stopped
> using my set when the tread wore down, but they tell me
there is still a
> lot of tire left. Flash would know, because he bought
them.
>
> Kuhmos stick better than Yokos, but require a great deal
of negative
> camber. Unless you run -3 deg camber, you can cord them on
the outside edge
> very quickly -- like in ONE EVENT!!! (Been there, done
that). Since I put
> in camber plates and leaned the tars in, I've had no
wear problems. Also,
> if you buy a set of Kuhmos, order them SHAVED. They
come with a huge, fat
> outside shoulder that has to be shaved down.
Tirerack knows all about it.
> In fact, they are the ones who advised it,
and it works. BTW, although the
> tire says "directional," it is only true
for running in the wet when the
> tire still has tread. Once the tread is
gone (1st 15 minutes of track
> time), they become
unidirectional.
>
> Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:10:44
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: race tires
Actually, now that you mention it, I
have a friend running a Corvette on
"used" Hoosier slicks. You are
right, they are only used once by
professional racers, sometimes only for
qualifying or car setup or testing.
He gets them real cheap and doesn't think
anything of wearing them out in a
weekend or two. If you have your
Yoko's as spares, if you run out of tread
in the middle of the weekend, you
can always mount them. I have his email
around, but I need to look for
it. He could tell you how much wear he
is
getting.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Jim Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:31
PM
> To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: race tires
>
> I've been running the A032 for track
and street --- I recently completed
> my
> acquisition of a spare
set of rims which allows me to have a set of race
> tires
> and a
set of street tires ---- A032's and 17" 1994 VR4 rims for street and
>
my
> Enkie RP01's with ????? tires for the track.
>
> For the
????? tires I was initially looking at the V700 Kumho's [ $175
>
shaved
> and heat cycled ], but got sidetracked by looking at the Goodyear
GS-CS
> race tire [ $210 ] and the Hoosier [$200]. During my quest for the
most
> bang
> for the buck I found a source for used race tires and
found Hoosiers for
> $65
> to $80 for ¾ tread and full tread
respectively. He also has the Goodyear's
> available [ none right now ] so
I figured for about the price of two new
> tires
> I could get four
used tires and see if it's worth the effort. The 'full'
> tread
tires
> come from guys running the Motorola cup who change tires every
time they
> go out ---- I'll probably give it a try, hell it's 'only' $400
or so. My
> concern is
> that the tires will only make it a weekend
or less --- if I could get two
> weekends
> out of them and they
have superior performance I'd consider it a success.
>
> Jim Berry
>
====================================================
>
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
To: <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>
>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:30 AM
> Subject: Re: 3S-Racers: race
tires
>
>
> > I've run both the Yoko 032R and Kuhmo
V700.
> >
> > The Yoko is a great tire, very predictable, and
wears like iron. I
> stopped
> > using my set when the tread wore
down, but they tell me there is still a
> > lot of tire left. Flash
would know, because he bought them.
> >
> > Kuhmos stick
better than Yokos, but require a great deal of negative
> > camber.
Unless you run -3 deg camber, you can cord them on the outside
>
edge
> > very quickly -- like in ONE EVENT!!! (Been there, done that).
Since I
> put
> > in camber plates and leaned the tars in, I've
had no wear problems.
> Also,
> > if you buy a set of Kuhmos,
order them SHAVED. They come with a huge,
> fat
> > outside
shoulder that has to be shaved down. Tirerack knows all about
>
it.
> > In fact, they are the ones who advised it, and it works. BTW,
although
> the
> > tire says "directional," it is only true for
running in the wet when the
> > tire still has tread. Once the tread is
gone (1st 15 minutes of track
> > time), they become
unidirectional.
> >
> > Rich/old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:09:41
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear Hood Seal Removal and You, Science Series #7
>To cover a
near mistake ... I have not latched the hood completely a time
or
>two
(drop it and think it latches but it does not) and drive 40 miles
down
>the highway at 65 mph. Darn if the initial grab of those hooks
don't hold
>it solid even at 65 mph.
>
Ditto that--but the hood
did not pop up until 110mph at which time, I almost
soiled myself!
It did
hold though--that made me think that there must be alot of pressure
under the
bonnet to force it up like that. I would think the hood would
have so
much air going over it to keep it down, but alas my logic was shown
to be
flawed again.
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:37:41
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear Hood Seal Removal and You, Science Series #7
> It did
hold though--that made me think that there must be alot of pressure
>
under the bonnet to force it up like that. I would think the hood
would
> have so much air going over it to keep it down, but alas my logic
was shown
> to be flawed again.
- ---
At the front edge..its
very turbulent...not much up or down force.
But once it gets up just a
hair..it'll really pull up.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:22:21
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen 3S
I have heard GT-Pro in Cali is making
a Link prog engine management plug in
ECU replacement that does datalogging,
air/fuel, ignition, nitrous, boost
control and more. It supposedly
allows operation with or without MAF (speed
density) and has a baseline
program in it so its plug and play. Price is
about $2300, and its
available within the month. Supposedly, there is a
version for every
gen ECU, and its laptop programmable.
I got most of this info from Brian of
GTpro on the 3si.org site. Oh, and he
said you can run a coil for each
cylinder and its sequential fire. Sounds
promising. Maybe one of
the members with a little more tuning knowledge
(hmm Roger) might want to
inquire upon the merits or limitations of the
system. Sounds reasonable
priced for something that eliminates the need for
at least three black boxes
and a VPC/Arc2 and datalogger and even an MSD if
you just bought it for
increased spark voltage. Even a Gforce upgrade is
almost $1000 and
needed if you want to bypass the stock rev limiter.
Sam
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip V. Glazatov <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To:
stealth@stls.verio.net <
stealth@stls.verio.net>;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen
3S
>What parts do I need to swap to enable datalogging on my '95
R/T TT? Is it
>cost prohibitive?
>
>I know I can swap several
body panels and make a 1st gen into a 2nd gen,
>but since I have a 2nd gen
car already and I like it very much I would
>rather swap some parts than
whole cars. Thanks.
>
>Philip
>'95 R/T TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:38:31
-0400
From: "Infernalist" <
baali@wwnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Hood
Scoop for TT
That scoop at drdisturbed.com is pretty much what im lookin
at building. My
thought after further review is to look into making some kind
of shield to
cut off the K&N from the rest of the compartment, then
modify my hood pimple
on the passenger side so it has an opening at the back
side. Im assuming the
shield will maintain the pressure under the hood for
coolant purposes, and
the scoop with the outlet 12-18 inches behind the inlet
will provide a nice
flow through of cool air. Where did you get your scoop at
btw? Did you make
it or order it somewhere?.
check out my hood
scoop you might like the design.
http://www.drdisturbed.comBen
In
a message dated 7/31/2001 8:50:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
baali@wwnet.net writes:
Greets
all,
I have a quick (probly dumb) question, while discussing my woes
about
getting cool air to my K&N on my TT with a body man i know, he
mentioned the
posibility of fabricating a Small scoop a few inches in front
of where the
K&N sits. In theory this sounds like a good idea, and I know
he is good and
the scoop will look good. We were discussing app 8 in. across
rising perhaps
1.5 in off the hood surface, with a slight taper and large
inlet cut in the
hood. my question is, is there any reason NOT to do this? I
assume this has
been done before, and if so does anyone know if the results
were an
improvement or not? Just trying to be creative a bit. Thanks in
advance for
replys.
Ron Zilnsky
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:00:23
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen 3S
> I have heard GT-Pro in Cali
is making a Link prog engine
> management plug in ECU replacement that
does datalogging,
> air/fuel, ignition, nitrous, boost control and
more.
Cool... The EFI Systems PMS will do air/fuel and ignition
control with
datalogging also. It isn't a full standalone system, but
has similar
programmability capabilities. It'll also do fuel and timing
recalibration
when nitrous is turned on and be able to run in standalone mode
at WOT to
overcome the stock revlimiter. If it works like the DSM
version, you should
be able to use various hotwire airflow meters as well
(and custom design
meters and other sensors in InterACQ).
> Price
is about $2300, and its available within the
> month. Supposedly,
there is a version for every gen ECU, and
> its laptop
programmable.
PMS is about $1450 complete with Windows InterACQ
datalogging/programming
software and a 3-bar MAP sensor, and works with all
3/S cars (although I'm
not sure if it works on the '99). Mine shipped
yesterday, so its available
now.
The Link setup sounds pretty
interesting though... I'm gonna give the PMS a
go and see how that
works. Its been around for a while on the DSM, Mustang
and RX7's so
hopefully there won't be major bugs in the 3/S version.
http://www.efisystems.com-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:17:42
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen 3S
Sounds like a good plan so long
as its not on the same time schedule as
the "viper" - carbon fiber
hood... That's exactly what a lot of people
here are
wanting/needing... Lets just see if it makes it
to
production...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Sam Shelat
Sent: Wednesday,
August 01, 2001 12:22 PM
To:
stealth@starnet.net;
stealth@stls.verio.net;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen 3S
I have heard GT-Pro in Cali
is making a Link prog engine management plug
in
ECU replacement that does
datalogging, air/fuel, ignition, nitrous,
boost
control and more. It
supposedly allows operation with or without MAF
(speed
density) and has a
baseline program in it so its plug and play. Price
is
about $2300,
and its available within the month. Supposedly, there is a
version for
every gen ECU, and its laptop programmable.
I got most of this info from
Brian of GTpro on the 3si.org site. Oh,
and he
said you can run a
coil for each cylinder and its sequential fire.
Sounds
promising.
Maybe one of the members with a little more tuning knowledge
(hmm Roger)
might want to inquire upon the merits or limitations of the
system.
Sounds reasonable priced for something that eliminates the need
for
at
least three black boxes and a VPC/Arc2 and datalogger and even an
MSD
if
you just bought it for increased spark voltage. Even a Gforce
upgrade
is
almost $1000 and needed if you want to bypass the stock rev
limiter.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Philip V. Glazatov
<
gphilip@umich.edu>
To:
stealth@stls.verio.net <
stealth@stls.verio.net>;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen
3S
>What parts do I need to swap to enable datalogging on my '95
R/T TT? Is
it
>cost prohibitive?
>I know I can swap several body
panels and make a 1st gen into a 2nd
gen,
>but since I have a 2nd gen
car already and I like it very much I would
>rather swap some parts than
whole cars. Thanks.
>Philip
>'95 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:34:57
-0500
From: "john adams" <
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Passenger side window motor going out
- ----- Original
Messages -----
> Both door window motors are a documented problem in
our cars (along with the
> electric antenna and rear spoiler limit
switches). The first things the
> dealer jumped in to fix on one of
our cars that had extended warranty were
> the door window motors and the
wrinkled side glass decals!
>
> > Has anyone replaced their
passenger side window motor? Mine is barely able
> >
> > to
bring the window back up.
> >
> > Didnt I read that someone
rebuilt theirs? Or used a different brand?
> >
I took both of
mine apart, because they had seized up with some rust and
corrosion, cleaned
them out and cleaned the contacts and they work fine
now. The springs and
bearing and gear are a little tricky to get back in place
all at once, but
not too bad, especially if you lock the springs into place, add
some grease
to hold the bearing in, and slip the magnetic housing over the
rest.
john
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 19:52:21
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
racing stuff
I ran across a Z car site that had some good info for us
racer types.
The first link is mostly for us west coast guys ---- pdf
files showing the
racing line for Thunderhill [ wish I'd had it about a month
ago ], Sears
Point and Laguna Seca.
http://www.clubz.org/track/tips_tricks/index.htmlThe
second link is more for the tech types, I've only looked at it
superfically
but it appears to go into detail as to car dynamics at a
more detailed level
than the average hot shoe cares to know.
http://members.home.net/rck/phor/
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:34:49
+1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogging on a 2nd gen 3S
If it is in fact a Link ,they're
made here in New Zealand and sell for half
the price here.
http://www.warmotorsport.com/linkcpu.html
I dont think they've got one yet
for the 3000GT
Steve
> I
have heard GT-Pro in Cali is making a Link prog engine management
plug
in
> ECU replacement that does datalogging, air/fuel, ignition,
nitrous, boost
> control and more. It supposedly allows operation
with or without MAF
(speed
> density) and has a baseline program in it
so its plug and play. Price is
> about $2300, and its available
within the month. Supposedly, there is a
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:48:55
-0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Front strut tower bar - special offer - no group buy necessary
I
had a few emails with Chris and wanted to pass along some info on his bar.
He
is a very nice guy. He said he can offer the bar with no
pre-drilled
holes so you folks with the Ground Control kit can drill your own
and make
the bar fit. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to convince him to
offer a bar
with complete circular mounting points. Perhaps you
more articulate folks
can convince him that this would be
worthwhile.
It is really great to have folks willing to contribute so
greatly to our
lists.
- -Ken
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
To: "'Team
3SI'" <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:18 PM
Subject: Team3S: Front strut tower bar -
special offer - no group buy
necessary
> 3/S
owners,
>
> We have
an opportunity to get a front strut tower bar for
> our cars, 3000GT, SL
or VR4 - 1st or 2nd generation. One of our car
owners,
> Chris Thorne
in PA, is going to make a limited number of
these
immediately.
>
> Because enough of us sent in deposit
checks Chris was able
> to get a good buy on raw material and the price
has been reduced.
>
> A group buy is not necessary now. Prices are
reduced by more than 25%.
> First come, first serve, until this first
material buy runs out ! !
> Those who have signed up and sent their checks
are first in line.
> Those who have signed up, but have not sent their
checks are next
> assuming Chris receives your checks before
6Aug01.
>
> The rest of you will want to hurry and take advantage of
this one time
> opportunity.
> Man, I sound like a used car
salesman.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
The configurations are listed below:
>
> - Black Chrome finish
(mirror finish powder coated paint) with a
> battery hold down(also black
chrome finish)is now $260.00.
>
> Paint colors other than the black
chrome finish that will be available at
no
> extra
charge.
> * Azure Blue
> * Dark Blue
> *
Crimson Red
> * Black
> * Wet White
> *
Buttercup
> Colors that are not stock are available for an extra
$50.00.
> If at least 5 people sign up for the same special color then
there is no
> extra charge.
>
> - The strut tower bar painted
with the black chrome finish or stock paint
> without
> the battery
hold down is $250.00.
> - The strut tower bar only in raw aluminum,
without paint or a hold down
is
> still $250.00
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
This bar is CNC machined from 6061-T6 Aluminum and uses a solid
>
brace
> of .625 inches x 1.5 inches that connects to the two
mounts.
> A picture of the prototype bar can be seen
at:
>
>
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GT/FrontStrutTowerBar/FrontStrutTowerBar.h>
tml
> THE ADDRESS ABOVE
MUST ALL BE ON ONE LINE.
> If it isn't, then copy it to your browser
as one line.
>
> The
prototype you see in the pictures will be strengthened
> at the bend
angles with "bridges" to eliminate any possibility of flexing.
> Chris can
be contacted at
NETM1NDER@aol.com if you
have
technical
questions.
>
I am doing the administration of this buy because Chris
> works 60 hours a
week and I want to help him get this off the ground so I
> can have a
strut
bar.
>
>
> A
battery hold down is required because the stock battery
> and stock
battery hold down can not be used due to
clearance.
> A battery
like the Optima or one with dimensions of H =
> 6.75 x W
= 6.813 x L = 9.75" or smaller can be used ( H, W &
L = +
or
> - .25") can be
used.
> Another option is
to relocate your battery to the back so no
> hold down is
required
>
> If you
choose to participate in this buy please E-mail me, Jim
Floyd
>
at
>
jim_floyd@maxtor.com.
>
Give me your name, a phone number, a shipping address and
> which
configuration/color you want. Standard color is the black chrome
>
paint.
>
> The buy
will go down like this.
>
We each will send $150.00 deposit to Chris Thorne.
> This will separate
the Men from the boys.
>
> He will then submit the first checks and
begin manufacturing
> once they have cleared through their banks.
>
Manufacturing will take 4 - 6
weeks.
> The deposit
checks will go
to:
>
Chris
Thorne
>
Apt.
212
>
1404 East Schuylkill
Road
>
Pottstown, PA 19465
>
>
> If you
need to contact me by phone I am at 303-702-4421 during
the
day.
>
> Jim Floyd
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#565
***************************************