Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, July 26
2001 Volume 01 : Number
558
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:08:15 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Upgrading 1st Gen brakes (ending the thread)
Thanks to everyone
who replied.
I get the impression that it **IS** possible to run 1st Gen
brakes
successfully. It looks like several of you have already done so.
Thanks for
relating your experiences. We can end the thread now.
In
summary, it looks like all Cathy and I have to do to her 91 Stealth TT
is:
1. Change the brake fluid to Ford High Performance or Motul.
2.
Install race pads -- probably Porterfield R4 in front, R4S in the rear
- --
before each event.
3. Remove front dust shields to promote cooling.
4.
Install cooling ducts to bring cool air in.
5. Install SS lines to prevent
fluid boiling.
6. Install water injection to prevent fading.
Total
cost of this should be about $10 for brake fluid, $10 for cooling
duct (2.5
in. reinforced round duct), and $5 for water injection hose,
plus
$160-$200 for a set of race pads. We'll let the SS lines go for a
while.
She won't be able to hammer the brakes like I do with my Big Reds, but
this
should get her by until she learns the car and starts beating my lap
times.
Then, it's time for either 94 calipers or Big Reds, SS lines, etc..
I don't know what I'll do to keep ahead of her then.
Dang kids.
Always trying to beat the old man. At least she won't be able to
out-brake me
for a while.
Rich
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:08:15
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Upgrading 1st Gen brakes (ending the thread)
Thanks to everyone
who replied.
I get the impression that it **IS** possible to run 1st Gen
brakes
successfully. It looks like several of you have already done so.
Thanks for
relating your experiences. We can end the thread now.
In
summary, it looks like all Cathy and I have to do to her 91 Stealth TT
is:
1. Change the brake fluid to Ford High Performance or Motul.
2.
Install race pads -- probably Porterfield R4 in front, R4S in the rear
- --
before each event.
3. Remove front dust shields to promote cooling.
4.
Install cooling ducts to bring cool air in.
5. Install SS lines to prevent
fluid boiling.
6. Install water injection to prevent fading.
Total
cost of this should be about $10 for brake fluid, $10 for cooling
duct (2.5
in. reinforced round duct), and $5 for water injection hose,
plus
$160-$200 for a set of race pads. We'll let the SS lines go for a
while.
She won't be able to hammer the brakes like I do with my Big Reds, but
this
should get her by until she learns the car and starts beating my lap
times.
Then, it's time for either 94 calipers or Big Reds, SS lines, etc..
I don't know what I'll do to keep ahead of her then.
Dang kids.
Always trying to beat the old man. At least she won't be able to
out-brake me
for a while.
Rich
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:20:19
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
> Actually, they do give a
performance increase... one well known 3S
gentleman claimed as much as 50%
more airflow, however it would
> probably be safer to realize about 25%
more. Unless you have high flow
throttle body, ported/polished heads,
high flow exhaust,
> etc. And, more air = more fuel = more
power!
>
> Yes, performance increase for sure!
Nono,
absolutely not. Maybe a little less working for the turbos but no
performance
gain.
Please post figures of before and after the mods !!! Be careful
with such
post as we pull off your skinny and ask you holes into your
stomach. 50%
more airflow is the biggest BS I heard lately, haha.
Show
us the figs and give us the name !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:25:12
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Mods for a stock es?
Right, I do have a weight advantage of 3-400
lbs on the turbo, plus my end of straight speed is roughly 10mph slower than the
VR4 in long straights.
I think the pads are about 1 inch shorter and 1/4
inch narrower than the turbo.
At the track I use 245/45-16 Khumo or Gforce
and 16lb wheels.
Kurt
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001
1:26 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Mods for a stock es?
Unbelievable! People on this
list were slamming me because they are wearing
out a new set of Metal Matrix
pads in one weekend! Are you running helium
in your car?
Your
car is not a VR4? And the pads on the NA are smaller than the
VR4,
right?
What kind of tires are you running on the
track?
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zobel, Kurt
[SMTP:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:05 PM
>
To: Willis, Charles E.;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods for a stock es?
>
> Chuck,
>
> Maybe they are different, but yes, they last 6-7 weekends of 6-8 30
minute
> track sessions,
> and I have not seen any NT times within 5
seconds of me. If I am braking
> wrong, so be it.
> The Kymer rotors
are drilled and chamfered and cadmium treated.
>
> I was surprised
at how well they hold up at the track too. I think
> Poterfield would
prrobably give better braking, but don't think I would
> use them on the
street because I've heard they need quite a bit of warmup.
>
> When
I say sneak up, I mean I do not stab the pedal, I ease onto it, then
>
quickly get up to almost max pressue, then squeeze out the last braking
>
needed. I try to time this so I am at max braking and forward weight
shift
> exactly at, but not before turn-in. Fully loaded at the correct
turn-in
> point, the turn has less or no understeer. I always try to
follow the
> 'late apex as early as possible' formula.
>
>
Kurt
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25,
2001 12:51 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods for a stock es?
>
>
>
Kurt,
>
> If you get 6-7 track sessions out of Metal Matrix pads,
you must be
> talking
> about drag strip track sessions.
>
> One DE weekend is composed of approximately 8 each 20 min track
sessions.
> I
> never had a set of metal matrix pads last more than
three weekends. If
> you
> are sneaking up on the brakes, you
are braking wrong for a road course.
>
> I cannot believe you have
so little pad wear, unless Stillen sent you a
> completely different pad
formulation than I used for three years.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: Zobel, Kurt
[SMTP:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 1:12
PM
> > To:
dschilberg@pobox.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods for a stock es?
> >
> >
Darren,
> > (better late than never?)
> > First would be
lowering springs or coilovers, with heavy bias towards
> > coilovers if
you can afford it. I have Eibachs, but wish I had gone
>
with
> > a coilover system for camber and wheel/tire size
flexibility.
> >
> > Second would be cool
air or forced air system. I have installed both a
> 12v
> >
portable leaf blower($60+tubing) and a marine 4 inch bilge fan($20) with
>
> very good effect both in qtr mile(14.8) and track(2:15
Buttonwillow,
> 1:44
> > Willow Springs).
> >
>
> I do have a 3 inch cat and custom exhaust, but do not think it buys
that
> > much unless you go with nitrous or supercharging.
>
>
> > Try your stock brakes before BigReds on the
non-turbo.
> > I put on Kymer drilled rotors and Stillen Metal matrix
pads my first
> time
> > out with Dot4 fluid change.
> >
> > Thought I was going to completely burn up my brakes, but they
just
> needed
> > a 'real' breakin at the track. Lots of brake
smell, but I just eased way
> > off whenever it was apparent. Next
session I put cooling hoses on. No
> > brake smell, so I tried w/o and
still ok ever since.
> >
> > I leave them on for street
and track, pads lasted 6-7 track sessions
> plus
> > street,
rotors are just going bad a little, 1/3 thru second pad set and
> >
over a year of driving.
> >
> > This setup, with heavy bleed
every other track session or so, has
> > performed very well. By
demonstartion I have run up on just about every
> > bumper I can think
of going into turns(ie, brake later with confidence)
> > and never have
any fade even on hot days. I sort of sneak up on the
> brakes
> >
rather than stab them, and then ramp up to max pedal quickly. Always try
>
> to brake straight line
only.
> >
>
> Kurt 96 3K NT
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Darren Schilberg [mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > Sent:
Tuesday, July 17, 2001 8:37 PM
> > To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods for a stock es?
> >
> >
>
> Technically it depends on what you are doing (drag race, open
track,
> > touring, show car, etc.).
> >
> >
Regardless it should probably be the air filter (K&N).
> >
>
> For drag cars it will be a front-mounted intercooler (since you
don't
> have
> > turbos which would call for a boost
controller).
> > For open track road racing it should be Big Red
brakes.
> > For touring it should be a compliment of CDs and a recharge
on the A/C
> > unit.
> > For show car it should be car
detailing every week.
> >
> > --Flash!
> > 1995 VR-4
being setup for the open track
> >
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > Of Brady
> >
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:36 PM
> >
> > What is the
first mod I should put on a stock es with 99k?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:59:49
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Head compatability
> The 91-93 heads and cams are not the
same as "93.5" on as I recollect.
The 1st gen turbo heads had no cam
sensor.
> believe the cam sensors may be different, but the cam
profile and the
valves
> are slightly different as I recall. That
is not to say that you could not
> make the older ones work, but I do not
believe they are identical even if
> they do bolt directly onto the 95
block.
>
> If you have a service manual handy it will show you that
the cam profiles
> are different and I believe the valves themselves may
be different, but of
> course check further in case someone else has done
this.
Barry, please give the exact location of this information as I
haven't found
anything in the manual.
I do have 93+ valves, 93+ cams
in 1st gen heads. I had to make a special
bracket that holds the cam sensor
on the older heads.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:54:21
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Upgrading 1st Gen breakes redux
Hi Dave,
Are the C group
cars running 1:30 lap times at
Putnam??
Be of good
cheer,
John
- --- bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net> wrote:
>
Rich,
>
> As far as I'm concerned, it depends on how
>
competitive your daughter want's
> to be. My first gen brakes with
R4S's and slotted
> Porterfields seem to work
> sufficiently at
Putnam Park. The Porterfields
> havn't warped a bit, and the
>
pads still have a good 50-60% after 1 weekend. As
> long as I back
out of the
> throttle going down the main straight and don't get
>
too agressive on the
> rest of the track, fade is not too bad.
Needless to
> say, this has a
> detrimental effect on lap
times. Using conservative
> braking, I'm able to
> run lap
times with the fast C class drivers. I
> suspect that to be
>
competitve in the B class I will need the Big Red
> upgrade.
>
> Regards,
> DaveT/92TT
>
>
=====
Please
respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with
Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:03:56
-0500
From: "Gerry Wordehoff" <
gerrywordehoff@mcleodusa.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Need engine
I am looking for a 91 Stealth RT Turbo engine, either
a good used engine or
a remanufactured one. Current engine shows zero
compression in no. 1
cylinder, likely due to a hole in the piston.
Engine seems ok otherwise.
The odometer shows 72,000 miles. I have been
advised the engine is not
repairable. Any comments? Thanks,
Gerry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:25:36
-0400
From: Steve Lasher <
s_lasher@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Team3S: wheels & big reds (what else?)
Sorry for the 1,000,000 posts
on wheels & Big reds, but does anyone know
if the 1994 17" VR-4 wheels
seen below will fit over the big reds?
Link:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Images/rims-94vr4.jpgTiA
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:35:26
-0400
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
Geez, thanks for shooting it down, how
do you know its not true?
As a matter of fact, the person who said 50%
has the last name of Lucius.
The person who said 25% has the informal name of
D&N Performance.
Huh
Ken
"Roger Gerl (RTEC)"
wrote:
> > Actually, they do give a performance increase... one
well known 3S
> gentleman claimed as much as 50% more airflow, however it
would
> > probably be safer to realize about 25% more. Unless you
have high flow
> throttle body, ported/polished heads, high flow
exhaust,
> > etc. And, more air = more fuel = more power!
>
>
> > Yes, performance increase for sure!
>
> Nono,
absolutely not. Maybe a little less working for the turbos but no
>
performance gain.
>
> Please post figures of before and after the
mods !!! Be careful with such
> post as we pull off your skinny and ask
you holes into your stomach. 50%
> more airflow is the biggest BS I heard
lately, haha.
>
> Show us the figs and give us the name
!
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:29:18
-0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need engine
Before you purchase a whole new engine, determine
why you have zero
compression. Do a leakdown and see if leakage is past
piston rings, by intake
or exhaust valves, etc. A new engine may not be
the best choice for you.
Joe G.
Gerry Wordehoff wrote:
>
I am looking for a 91 Stealth RT Turbo engine, either a good used engine
or
> a remanufactured one. Current engine shows zero compression in
no. 1
> cylinder, likely due to a hole in the piston. Engine seems
ok otherwise.
> The odometer shows 72,000 miles. I have been advised
the engine is not
> repairable. Any comments? Thanks,
Gerry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:01:53
-0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Need engine
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Wordehoff <
gerrywordehoff@mcleodusa.net>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:05 PM
Subject: Team3S: Need
engine
>I am looking for a 91 Stealth RT Turbo engine, either a
good used engine or
>a remanufactured one. Current engine shows zero
compression in no. 1
>cylinder, likely due to a hole in the piston.
Engine seems ok otherwise.
>The odometer shows 72,000 miles. I have
been advised the engine is not
>repairable. Any comments?
Thanks, Gerry
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Who is telling you the engine is "not
repairable"?
There are a lot of us who have had a lot worse damage
than
that and then performed complete rebuilds.
It's a good
opportunity to upgrade, bore, change internals,
(pistons, rods, rings etc)
turbos, add headers etc etc.
Or just RR the one piston as long as walls
are good/
doesn't require overbore.
Sounds like someone doesn't want
to get their hands dirty?!
Could be a big red flag indicating
incompetence.
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:15:21
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
>Geez, thanks for shooting it
down, how do you know its not true?
Simple maths ! An engine needs an
amount of air to breath (airflow, e.g.
720cfm on high rpm for our engine)
Now the intake tract may cause a
restriction but the turbos are playing the
important rule here as they
should provide this flow of air. In fact half
the amount as we have two of
them, therefore the restriction is half too on
each side. If the intake
path is a restriction, the turbos have to work
harder to produce this
amount of boost we want. The intake therefore plays a
smaller rule in the
whole story. Smooting the intake on a turbo car may only
help in spooling
up of the turbos as well as when the needed amount of air
exceeds the
capability of the stock air system. The rubber parts in our cars
are big
enough to flow and the flex parts are not a big restriction at
all.
>As a matter of fact, the person who said 50% has the last name
of Lucius.
No, Jeff will not tell such BS. Maybe airflow can be increased
by 0.05% I'm
sure Jeff will post what he really said.
>The person
who said 25% has the informal name of D&N Performance.
BS too, but
this is normal for people who want to sell their stuff. There
are no figures
around, nobody flow-tested the stock parts and then the
metal stuff. Of
course not, because one would find out that there is no
gain. Maybe there is
one as the stock system is probably flowing 1000cfm
and the metall stuff
1500cfm ... yes, this is a 50% gain ... but our cars
will never need that
much air. In fact 950cfm is way the biggest amount of
flow
needed.
Under the line, it is a nice looking upgrade for under the hood
appearance.
No gain will ever be found at all. If one claims a performance
gain, he
should provide real numbers. 50% or even 25% is way off the
reality.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:28:41
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
you sure those
aren't stock '93 VR4 wheels in the picture?
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Steve Lasher [SMTP:s_lasher@bellsouth.net]
>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:26 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> Subject:
3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
>
> Sorry for the
1,000,000 posts on wheels & Big reds, but does anyone know
> if the
1994 17" VR-4 wheels seen below will fit over the big reds?
>
>
Link:
>
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Images/rims-94vr4.jpg>
> TiA
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:29:03
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
>>
Link:
>>
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Images/rims-94vr4.jpg>
you sure those aren't stock '93 VR4 wheels in the picture?
Those are
certainly '94 chrome VR4 wheels, or could also be '95-96 Spyder
VR4 wheels
(they used the same 17" chrome wheels on those also). The '93
chrome
VR4 wheel's spokes look substantially different.
'93 wheel:
http://www.mn3s.org/rims/rims-93vr4.jpg'94
wheel:
http://www.mn3s.org/rims/rims-94vr4.jpg(BTW,
many of us probably can't reply to cross-posted list e-mail since we
don't
belong to all the other lists... (ie: 3S Racers))
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:37:46
-0400
From: "Lorne Silkes" <
vr4@cwia.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE:
3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
Those are the stock 94 VR4
/ 95-96 Spyder Wheels.
Lorne
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
<
3sracers@speedtoys.com>;
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: wheels &
big reds (what else?)
> you sure those aren't stock '93 VR4 wheels
in the picture?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
From: Steve Lasher [SMTP:s_lasher@bellsouth.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday,
July 25, 2001 7:26 PM
> > To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com> >
Subject: 3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
> >
> >
Sorry for the 1,000,000 posts on wheels & Big reds, but does anyone
know
> > if the 1994 17" VR-4 wheels seen below will fit over the big
reds?
> >
> > Link:
> >
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Images/rims-94vr4.jpg***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:00:24
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
so, I'm
stupid and I haven't had my coffee yet. (and I have 17" stock
chrome
wheels on both my '93 and '94 - it all runs together - my
brain
hurts!)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jannusch,
Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:29
AM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: wheels & big reds (what else?)
>
> >> Link:
> >>
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Images/rims-94vr4.jpg>
> > you sure those aren't stock '93 VR4 wheels in the picture?
>
> Those are certainly '94 chrome VR4 wheels, or could also be '95-96
Spyder
> VR4 wheels (they used the same 17" chrome wheels on those
also). The '93
> chrome VR4 wheel's spokes look substantially
different.
>
> '93 wheel:
http://www.mn3s.org/rims/rims-93vr4.jpg>
'94 wheel:
http://www.mn3s.org/rims/rims-94vr4.jpg>
> (BTW, many of us probably can't reply to cross-posted list e-mail since
we
> don't belong to all the other lists... (ie: 3S Racers))
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:53:57
EDT
From:
ThorHolth@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
More Transer Case Issues
Kai,
this may sound odd, but more than
once I have used a plumber's small pipe
wrench to free a broken/stripped
bolt, because it tightens harder on the
bolt, the more you turn it. much
better to use than a pair of channel locks
or vice grips. If that
still won't work, you could use a grinder or dremel
tool to put two flat
faces on it and use a box wrench.
I wouldn't drill it
out, because you could get metal filings in the
transfer case, which could
trash the limited slip differential.
best of luck.
-
-thor
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:13:26
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More Transer Case Issues
Kai,
a couple of other things
you can do ...
put some penetrating oil or WD40 between the plug and the
case and let it
sit for a while.
you can try small vise-grips and a
mallet if the pipe wrench won't fit.
when you do get the thing out and
you buy a new plug, also purchase the
non-reusable metal seal, it's like a
washer that goes between the plug and
the case. There are a total of
six: one for the drain and fill each of the
tranny, transfer case and rear
differential. The ones for the rear
differential are two different sizes and
copper. The ones for the tranny
and transfer case are the same size and
look like aluminum material.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
ThorHolth@aol.com
[SMTP:ThorHolth@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:54 AM
>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Transer Case Issues
>
>
>
>
Kai,
>
> this may sound odd, but more than once I have used a
plumber's small pipe
> wrench to free a broken/stripped bolt, because it
tightens harder on the
> bolt, the more you turn it. much better to use
than a pair of channel
> locks
> or vice grips. If that still
won't work, you could use a grinder or
> dremel
> tool to put two
flat faces on it and use a box wrench.
>
>
I wouldn't drill it out, because you could get metal filings in the
>
transfer case, which could trash the limited slip differential.
>
>
best of luck.
>
> -thor
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:07:23
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
Hmmmmmm.
Whenever air flow is
discussed pressure loss MUST ALWAYS be
mentioned. Otherwise, the airflow
numbers have no context! To simply
say a pipe flows 50% more air is
ridiculous. This is why the many
comments about K&N filters flowing more
air than stock are so silly!
The truth is both filters *can* flow about the
same amount of air (at
least at the practical flow levels for our engines).
The difference
between filters is the amount of pressure loss at a particular
flow
value.
The new DN performance intake pipes are smooth (the stock
are very
rough) and larger. Standard air flow calculations for smooth
circular
pipes indicate the DN pipes (with 2-3/8" ID) will flow 50% more
air
than the stock pipes (with 2" ID) at the SAME PRESSURE LOSS. This
can
also be stated as: the new pipes will flow the SAME AIR VOLUME
with
about 16% less pressure loss. In reality, I would guess that the
DN
pipes flow much better than predicted because the extreme roughness
of
the stock "accordian" pipes will create relatively large
pressure
loss.
Now to state that there is no performance gain because
the pressure
loss is reduced before the turbo is also "silly". Any time the
turbo
can get higher pressure air into it, then higher pressure air
can
come out of it at the same "work" level. Or stated another way, it
is
easier for the turbo to generate a certain output pressure when
input
pressure is higher. When the turbo works easier (lower
compression
ratio) then output temps are lower (and eventually better density
at
the manifold and better power).
Perhaps someone with more time than
me will measure the pressure
before the MAS and right before the turbo with
stock pipes and with
other pipes. Some DSM speed shops have done this and
have seen losses
like 2-4 psi with the stock DSM intake pipe!
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re - D&N
Performance
> Actually, they do give a performance increase... one
well known 3S
gentleman claimed as much as 50% more airflow, however it
would
> probably be safer to realize about 25% more. Unless you have
high
flow
throttle body, ported/polished heads, high flow exhaust,
>
etc. And, more air = more fuel = more power!
>
> Yes,
performance increase for sure!
Nono, absolutely not. Maybe a little less
working for the turbos but
no performance gain.
Please post figures of
before and after the mods !!! Be careful with
such post as we pull off your
skinny and ask you holes into your
stomach. 50% more airflow is the biggest
BS I heard lately, haha.
Show us the figs and give us the name
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:26:12
-0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: New Pictures of Polished Spark Plug Cover
Hey all.
I just
got my new Polished Spark Cover installed yesterday, made by our
wonderful
list member Robert Koch, and it looks awesome.
The price was extremely
reasonable, and he is a pleasure to deal with, I
even ordered a spare in case
of emergency, or in other words if I mess it
up.
Take a look at it,
you won't be disappointed.
http://members.home.com/anthonymelillo/3000gt.htmAnthony
Melillo
anthonymelillo@home.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:31:45
-0700
From: "Kai Langendoen" <
kail@colubs.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More Transer Case Issues
You did a great job of reading my mind. My
next question was going to be
what the plug and transfer case are made
of. My fear was that the plug was
steel and the case aluminum and that
it was actually the housing that
stripped.
As you may have ascertained
from that comment, it was the threads, not the
hex that stripped. I
recently put Redline in... and put in too much...
that's why I want to remove
the plug again... to drain out the excess. But
since you only have to
check the transfer fluid every 30 - 60 K miles (can't
remember off-hand) I'm
tempted to leave it alone and trust that any excess
vented out the top.
The plug doesn't seem to want to come out... just spins
in place (once in a
while seeming to almost grab a thread, then faltering).
I just hate
placing that much trust in a something that could turn into a
couple thousand
dollar repair bill.
Opinions? You guys have been great to knock
ideas around with on this. I
think I could get the plug out now "if" I
really want to.
Kai
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc
Jonathan Jacobs" <
Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com>
To:
"Kai Langendoen" <
kail@colubs.com>
Sent: Thursday, July
26, 2001 8:07 AM
Subject: Team3S: More Transer Case Issues
> I
assume, that by "stripped" you mean the threads of the fill plug.
If
> it is the Hex head that is stripped, then it is time for some
big
> vice-grips.
>
> Make sure you are not confusing the fill
plug with the t-case to
> transaxle bolts. I do it all the
time. I finally painted the drain
> plug white to keep me from
getting confused. Anyway, the plug is brass,
> and the case is cast
iron. Even if the threads are stripped, it should
> at least come
out.
>
> I can send you "rebuild instructions" for the transfer
case. I have
> replaced the bearings, and seals on mine. After
it is all apart, you
> can repair the fill plug from the inside. You
can always drill it out,
> and re-tap the hole, but I can't imagine trying
to do all that with the
> t-case on the car.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:19:06
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More Transer Case Issues
Kai,
With vise grips you may
be able to apply back pressure while turning and get
the plug to latch onto
one of the remaining threads. That's what I would
try. If you
didn't replace the washer/seal, you may be past the threads on
the case - the
washer is pretty thick (like 1/16 ").
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Kai Langendoen [SMTP:kail@colubs.com]
> Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:32 AM
> To: Marc Jonathan Jacobs
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Transer Case Issues
>
> You did a great
job of reading my mind. My next question was going to be
> what the
plug and transfer case are made of. My fear was that the plug
>
was
> steel and the case aluminum and that it was actually the housing
that
> stripped.
>
> As you may have ascertained from that
comment, it was the threads, not the
> hex that stripped. I recently
put Redline in... and put in too much...
> that's why I want to remove the
plug again... to drain out the excess.
> But
> since you only have
to check the transfer fluid every 30 - 60 K miles
> (can't
>
remember off-hand) I'm tempted to leave it alone and trust that any
excess
> vented out the top. The plug doesn't seem to want to come
out... just
> spins
> in place (once in a while seeming to almost
grab a thread, then
> faltering).
>
> I just hate placing
that much trust in a something that could turn into a
> couple thousand
dollar repair bill.
>
> Opinions? You guys have been great to
knock ideas around with on this. I
> think I could get the plug out
now "if" I really want to.
>
> Kai
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: "Marc Jonathan Jacobs" <
Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com>
>
To: "Kai Langendoen" <
kail@colubs.com>
> Sent: Thursday,
July 26, 2001 8:07 AM
> Subject: Team3S: More Transer Case Issues
>
>
> > I assume, that by "stripped" you mean the threads of the
fill plug. If
> > it is the Hex head that is stripped, then it is
time for some big
> > vice-grips.
> >
> > Make sure
you are not confusing the fill plug with the t-case to
> > transaxle
bolts. I do it all the time. I finally painted the drain
>
> plug white to keep me from getting confused. Anyway, the plug is
brass,
> > and the case is cast iron. Even if the threads are
stripped, it should
> > at least come out.
> >
> > I
can send you "rebuild instructions" for the transfer case. I have
>
> replaced the bearings, and seals on mine. After it is all apart,
you
> > can repair the fill plug from the inside. You can always
drill it out,
> > and re-tap the hole, but I can't imagine trying to do
all that with the
> > t-case on the car.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:09:07
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
Forget about the pressure loss, will
someone with these pipes run some before and after tests with GTech, that seems
the best way to see a performance gain. If D&N aren't willing to do this,
then I would go with the 'little to no gain' theory until proven otherwise.
MHO - Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
[mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:07 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
Hmmmmmm.
Whenever air
flow is discussed pressure loss MUST ALWAYS be
mentioned. Otherwise, the
airflow numbers have no context! To simply
say a pipe flows 50% more air is
ridiculous. This is why the many
comments about K&N filters flowing more
air than stock are so silly!
The truth is both filters *can* flow about the
same amount of air (at
least at the practical flow levels for our engines).
The difference
between filters is the amount of pressure loss at a particular
flow
value.
The new DN performance intake pipes are smooth (the stock
are very
rough) and larger. Standard air flow calculations for smooth
circular
pipes indicate the DN pipes (with 2-3/8" ID) will flow 50% more
air
than the stock pipes (with 2" ID) at the SAME PRESSURE LOSS. This
can
also be stated as: the new pipes will flow the SAME AIR VOLUME
with
about 16% less pressure loss. In reality, I would guess that the
DN
pipes flow much better than predicted because the extreme roughness
of
the stock "accordian" pipes will create relatively large
pressure
loss.
Now to state that there is no performance gain because
the pressure
loss is reduced before the turbo is also "silly". Any time the
turbo
can get higher pressure air into it, then higher pressure air
can
come out of it at the same "work" level. Or stated another way, it
is
easier for the turbo to generate a certain output pressure when
input
pressure is higher. When the turbo works easier (lower
compression
ratio) then output temps are lower (and eventually better density
at
the manifold and better power).
Perhaps someone with more time than
me will measure the pressure
before the MAS and right before the turbo with
stock pipes and with
other pipes. Some DSM speed shops have done this and
have seen losses
like 2-4 psi with the stock DSM intake pipe!
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re - D&N
Performance
> Actually, they do give a performance increase... one
well known 3S
gentleman claimed as much as 50% more airflow, however it
would
> probably be safer to realize about 25% more. Unless you have
high
flow
throttle body, ported/polished heads, high flow exhaust,
>
etc. And, more air = more fuel = more power!
>
> Yes,
performance increase for sure!
Nono, absolutely not. Maybe a little less
working for the turbos but
no performance gain.
Please post figures of
before and after the mods !!! Be careful with
such post as we pull off your
skinny and ask you holes into your
stomach. 50% more airflow is the biggest
BS I heard lately, haha.
Show us the figs and give us the name
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:22:31
-0700
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
I have talked to a few people that
have the IC Hardpipes and they all
said that they noticed a difference in the
responsiveness of the turbos,
some said that they helped with lag some. I am
sure there is a
difference to be noticed, probably not a great one like 25 -
50 %, but
enough to make it noticeable.
Matt Nelson
1994 RT
TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone
503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Thursday,
July 26, 2001 12:15 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
>Geez, thanks for
shooting it down, how do you know its not true?
Simple maths ! An engine
needs an amount of air to breath (airflow, e.g.
720cfm on high rpm for
our engine) Now the intake tract may cause a
restriction but the turbos are
playing the important rule here as they
should provide this flow of air. In
fact half the amount as we have two
of
them, therefore the restriction is
half too on each side. If the intake
path is a restriction, the turbos have
to work harder to produce this
amount of boost we want. The intake therefore
plays a smaller rule in
the
whole story. Smooting the intake on a turbo
car may only help in
spooling
up of the turbos as well as when the needed
amount of air exceeds the
capability of the stock air system. The rubber
parts in our cars are big
enough to flow and the flex parts are not a big
restriction at all.
>As a matter of fact, the person who said 50% has
the last name of
>Lucius.
No, Jeff will not tell such BS. Maybe
airflow can be increased by 0.05%
I'm
sure Jeff will post what he really
said.
>The person who said 25% has the informal name of D&N
Performance.
BS too, but this is normal for people who want to sell their
stuff.
There
are no figures around, nobody flow-tested the stock parts
and then the
metal stuff. Of course not, because one would find out that
there is no
gain. Maybe there is one as the stock system is probably flowing
1000cfm
and the metall stuff 1500cfm ... yes, this is a 50% gain ... but
our
cars
will never need that much air. In fact 950cfm is way the biggest
amount
of
flow needed.
Under the line, it is a nice looking
upgrade for under the hood
appearance.
No gain will ever be found at all.
If one claims a performance gain, he
should provide real numbers. 50% or
even 25% is way off the reality.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:30:20
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: Team3S:
RE: Stealth forced air system
I'm looking for my notes, but I have tried
both separately, but now do have them in series in the intake.
I have the
leaf blower mounted in the right front cowling space, ducted into the engine bay
past the emission canister.
It ties into the bilge fan which acts as a
vertical duct up to the stock air box. I plumbed from the fan under the
relay box and into the air box, with air horn removed, using dryer ducting for
flexibility. Duct tape and silicone did the trick. I already had a flat
K&N, so elected to keep the air box, figuring it provides extra volume to
preload. Since I only get 1-2 psi at closed throttle it is no problem.
Plus with the small amount of boost I do not really have to worry about extra
fuel, though I do want to add alcohol injection just to see the
effect.
I originally just hot wired it 'on' direct to the battery
when at the track, but now I have a throttle switch which activates a 20amp
relay to run the fans. The original leaf blower dry cell only lasted about
10minutes per charge so I use the car battery now.
Eventually I
will use a 2nd battery which will run these fans, front brake+wheel cooling
fans, and a remote water pump so I can unload the main battery and alternator.
I'll have a switch for recharge when at closed throttle. the remote water pump
will be done in conjunction with moving the radiator to the trunk. That will buy
me a few horses and help weight distribution.
Of course, that
assumes I don't just say 'screw it' and go buy a turbo, but for now I'm having
fun.
Kurt /
Skyrider
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Cullen123@aol.com
[mailto:Cullen123@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:44 PM
To:
Zobel, Kurt
Subject: Stealth forced air system
Hmmm, reading your
post on the list, and you mentioned a leaf blower and a
bilge fan. How
exactly do you have these setup? both inline with the
intake, or
what? Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cullen King
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:05:16
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: Porterfield R4E pads
Anyone using the R4E compound on track
events?
(Rich, I know you love those Hawks, but I am currently involved
in a
disagreement with them)
Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:23:13
-0500
From: "Brett Russell" <
brussell@powercom.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Car won't start...
Hello,
This morning I was unable to
start '93 VR-4. The lights come on when I turn
the key, and when I
attempt to start it I hear a click and then some sort of
electrical whine
that increases in volume and then gradually decreases. I
was thinking
that the whine might be the fuel pump, but I'm not really an
expert on this
sort of thing.
The "Charging system warning light" stays on when I try to
start the car, as
do the "Oil pressure warning light" and the "Engine coolant
level warning
light." I haven't checked the coolant level, but don't
see how a low level
could cause the problem. The oil is another
matter...I've only put on about
2500 miles since my last oil change (~120 of
them last night), but it hasn't
been changed since the beginning of the year
(since I don't drive it that
much I hadn't taken it in). I'm hoping
that I didn't damage the engine by
not changing it earlier, but again, I
would think that the engine would at
least try to start.
About the
charging system...I haven't had time to do much testing, but my
lights seemed
to be on at normal brightnesss, and I did check to make sure
that the battery
cables were on ther terminals correctly. I'm wondering if
something got
knocked loose last night, however, as I had to drive through
some pretty bad
road construction and I didn't think to put the car in tour
mode to soften
the ride a bit. I was thinking that the problem might be
with the
alternator or the starter, would that seem plausible? I've got the
full
tech manuals for the car as well as the CD Manual, so hopefully I
should be
able to find all the parts and trace the wires that I need to once
I pick up
a set of jackstands.
Like I said, I'm not much of an expert, so any
ideas/suggestions would be
much appreciated. Oh, and Mr. Cowan, if
you're reading this...are you
available this weekend if I need some
help?
Thanks,
Brett
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:07:43
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
> least at the practical flow
levels for our engines). The difference
> between filters is the amount of
pressure loss at a particular flow
> value.
Makes
sense.
> The new DN performance intake pipes are smooth (the stock are
very
> rough) and larger. Standard air flow calculations for smooth
circular
> pipes indicate the DN pipes (with 2-3/8" ID) will flow 50% more
air
> than the stock pipes (with 2" ID) at the SAME PRESSURE LOSS. This
can
> also be stated as: the new pipes will flow the SAME AIR VOLUME
with
> about 16% less pressure loss. In reality, I would guess that the
DN
> pipes flow much better than predicted because the extreme
roughness
> of the stock "accordian" pipes will create relatively large
pressure
> loss.
What roughness ? So how much do the stock flow and
how much Dons pipes ?
> Now to state that there is no performance gain
because the pressure
> loss is reduced before the turbo is also "silly".
Any time the turbo
> can get higher pressure air into it, then higher
pressure air can
> come out of it at the same "work" level.
Man,
mesure the vacuum and you know it !
> When the turbo works easier
(lower compression
> ratio) then output temps are lower (and eventually
better density at
> the manifold and better power).
Sure, but at
what pressure, where do the pipes play a rule ?
> Perhaps someone with
more time than me will measure the pressure
> before the MAS and right
before the turbo with stock pipes and with
> other pipes.
Easy to
do !
> Some DSM speed shops have done this and have seen
losses
> like 2-4 psi with the stock DSM intake pipe!
And how much
with aftermarket ones ? Give us teh link please.
We have two pipes going
to/from the intake piping before the turbos. Rear
the stock boost solenoid
vent and front the canister vent. Hock the boost
meter in it and measure the
vacuum. That's it... a very easy test, isn't it
?
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:45:54
-0500
From: "Doug Garrott" <
dgarrott@texas.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Car won't start...
Brett:
One place to look that doesn't
cost much is to check the ground cable on the
end away from the
battery. Also the cable from the battery to the starter.
If they are
loose they could cause those symptoms.
Doug G
'93 VR - 4
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Brett Russell" <
brussell@powercom.net>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:23 PM
Subject: Team3S: Car won't
start...
> Hello,
>
> This morning I was unable to
start '93 VR-4. The lights come on when I
turn
> the key, and
when I attempt to start it I hear a click and then some sort
of
>
electrical whine that increases in volume and then gradually decreases.
I
> was thinking that the whine might be the fuel pump, but I'm not really
an
> expert on this sort of thing.
>
> The "Charging system
warning light" stays on when I try to start the car,
as
> do the "Oil
pressure warning light" and the "Engine coolant level warning
>
light." I haven't checked the coolant level, but don't see how a
low
level
> could cause the problem. The oil is another
matter...I've only put on
about
> 2500 miles since my last oil change
(~120 of them last night), but it
hasn't
> been changed since the
beginning of the year (since I don't drive it that
> much I hadn't taken
it in). I'm hoping that I didn't damage the engine by
> not changing
it earlier, but again, I would think that the engine would at
> least try
to start.
>
> About the charging system...I haven't had time to do
much testing, but my
> lights seemed to be on at normal brightnesss, and I
did check to make sure
> that the battery cables were on ther terminals
correctly. I'm wondering
if
> something got knocked loose last
night, however, as I had to drive through
> some pretty bad road
construction and I didn't think to put the car in
tour
> mode to soften
the ride a bit. I was thinking that the problem might be
> with the
alternator or the starter, would that seem plausible? I've
got
the
> full tech manuals for the car as well as the CD Manual, so
hopefully I
> should be able to find all the parts and trace the wires
that I need to
once
> I pick up a set of jackstands.
>
>
Like I said, I'm not much of an expert, so any ideas/suggestions would
be
> much appreciated. Oh, and Mr. Cowan, if you're reading
this...are you
> available this weekend if I need some
help?
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:55:09
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: FW: Front brake pads - help!
Thought you all would appreciate me
retracting any further recommendation of
Panther Pads from Carbotech.
More traffic to follow.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:58 AM
> To:
'Ali Naimi'
> Subject: FW: Front brake pads - help!
>
> did a
few measurements last night in preparation for our conference call
> with
Carbotech.
>
> Compared STOCK Mitsu pads directly with old Panther
pads by lining up
> using pins.
> Panther pads have about 1/16" of
excess pad material on the "ear" side of
> the backer plate (top).
The excess is worse at the edges than in the
> middle, which means the arc
of the top of the pad material is not as tight
> as the stock
pads.
>
> Any misalignment of the pad material on the backer
AGGRAVATES the overlap
> at one edge or the other.
>
> Stock
pads taper from a thickness of about 2 1/32" in the middle to
> perhaps 1
5/8" at the edges (hard to measure because of the rounded
>
edges).
>
> On the '93 rotor (which was 11 1/2" in actual
diameter), the Panther pads
> left a contact strip 2" wide.
> On the
'94 rotor (which is 12 1/4" actual diameter), the Pather pads leave
> a
contact strip that is about 1 15/16" wide.
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24,
2001 10:55 AM
> To: 'Ali Naimi'
> Subject: Front brake pads -
help!
>
> Ali,
>
> Please call me at home this
afternoon 713/665-4482 to discuss what we can
> do about new front brake
pads for my '94 VR4.
>
> I am leaving for Heartland Park on August
9 and need to solve this problem
> before then. That gives me two
weekends to fix it.
>
> I first installed the brand new Stillen
crossdrilled rotors on the '94
> months ago and finally put the new
Panther pads on front and rear. At
> first I got some squeaking from
the front pads while bedding them, but
> after some screwing around with
the springs that hold the pads in place,
> the noise disappeared.
>
> I took the car to the track (Texas World Speedway) for the first time
June
> 9-10 for High Speed Drivers Ed. event. Braking worked fine,
but developed
> bad squeaking by the end of the event. Figured this
was warped rotors.
>
> Removed the rotors and had them
resurfaced. Cleaned the pads and noticed
> that the front pads had
been overlapping the edge of the rotor. As they
> wore, they were
making contact with the outer edge of the rotor as well as
> the
face. I filed this off, cleaned, and reinstalled them. I
noticed
> that the pad material is "cockeyed" on the backer material.
(It's also
> cockeyed on the custom rear pads, but there seems to be no
problem there).
> Total wear for this event was about 1/8", which is
typical.
>
> Now they are squeaking again.
>
> The
location of the pad material on the backer is apparently more critical
>
for the '94 than for my old '93. The pad needs to be aligned with
the
> bottom edge of the backer, that is the edge farthest from the holes
in the
> backer.
>
> Is this a manufacturing problem with the
Panther pads? I'd like to stay
> with them if possible, but now I
don't have a lot of time to turn the car
> around for the track.
>
> I also intend to measure the rotors to make sure they are the
proper
> diameter, but I believe they are okay since I had no problem with
them
> using the stock pads.
>
> HELP!
>
> Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#558
***************************************
