Team3S
Saturday, June 23
2001
Volume 01 : Number
528
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:19:58 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Project update (was: she's alive)
>Curious as to how many
miles the engine has on it, as I have just replaced
>my valve stem seals
and was considering replacing the lifters while I was
>already
there... I opted not do so, as I decided the ticking was
being
>caused by the loss of oil thru the seals...
The engine I
have the heads off had about 40k miles and mine has now about
70k. Lifter
ticking has gone for now :) I felt there is a big difference in
ticking
depending on oil used. The race oil from Castrol I always use never
got me
any ticking.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:56:06
-0700
From: Robert Koch <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FIPK - where's the beef?
Ok, it is truly installed, and I am
pleased with it very much. Noticeable
sound tone change (what is that
chamber with nothing to do on my intake
tube) a noticeable change in
pick-up-and-go between 4000 and 6500 rpm. Just
the fact I don't have to by a
fram filter anymore is enough. But please
answer me this....how does a
$50-$60 filter turn into 159.00 (best price
found and paid for it) all that
I can see is that a couple of brackets and
mounting plate with 2$ worth of
bolts is it. Now I love it, but don't get
me wrong. Being of the
manufacturing trade it was a disappointment. Every
picture I saw showed a
new tube and airflow meter. Rest assured people it
was not in the box. Fair
warning.........no tube for you!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob K.
93' R/T
FIPK
8.5's on the way
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:58:24
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Alignment was: RE: Team3S: Strut bar - need
alignment?
Without installing some more aggressive springs and shocks
you're kind of
limited --- about all you can do is mess with the camber and
toe. Toe is limited
to a tenth or so ou,t but that can causes some straight
line wandering. That
leaves camber and for a stock system I think you're only
going to get about
1º negative which will help cornering some but not a lot.
I run -1½º front and
rear with -3º on the front for track use but I have
camber plates, springs etc.
One of the best thing you can do to improve
handling is to get a good set of
tires ---- I run the Yokohama A032 which is
an R compound tire and therefore
very soft. If you run excessive camber and
soft tires plan on a set a year if
you put less than 10K miles on your
car.
18" rims with a lower profile tire helps a little also, but I don't
like paying an
extra $50 per tire just because they are 18" ---- I have the
yoko 255/40/17
on Enkie RP01 rims. For race use I plan on getting a set of
Kumho V700
shaved and heat cycled ---- That combination along with suspension
mods
would allow you to run well in excess of any sane speeds unless you're
on
a track. There is a 15 mph corner near my house which I can take at
45
without even chirping the tires.---- the car could probably take it at 55
but
in an urban environment that would be insane and irresponsible, that's
why
I go to the track to relieve my need for speed. If you look at my
signature
you'll see I spent most of my effort on making the car handle and
stop, then
I'll see if I can make it
faster.
Jim Berry
93
stealth TT ---- "arrest me red"
K&N FIPK -- Magnicore/.034" ---
A'pexi AVC-R boost control 15psi
GAB struts --- GC/Eibach 900# F/600# R
--- GC caster/camber plate
Roadrace engineering rear strut tower -- 25mm hub
centric front spacers
Yokohama A032 255-40-17 compition tires --
Enkei RP01 17X9 wheels
Porsche/Brembo [ big red ] brakes --- Porterfield
315mm rotors --- R4 pads
Mueller lightweight flywheel --- RPS 6 puck clutch
--- Autopower roll Bar
Simpson 5 pt. belts ---
In the garage --- FMIC,
720 injectors, Supra fuel pumpARC 2, ARM1 A/F
meter
custom gage pod, HKS peak hold EGT and Boost
gages
and soon I hope, 18T turbos, water injection and
custom
pre-cat back exhaust.
Gtech --- 0-60 = 4.75 -- 1/4 = 13.3 @ 110
mph
=========================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Michael D. Crose <
ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Alignment was: RE: Team3S: Strut bar
- need alignment?
> Speaking of alignments, what would be some
setting to start with that give
> aggressive handling?
>
>
Michael
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:32:50
-0500
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FIPK
The K&N Aircharger for the Eclipse has been
discontinued from most vendors.
K&N does make a FIPK now for the
2G turbo Eclipse. Its model number is
57-5504. This one should
fit a 3/S fine also, but I haven't tryed it
myself. This one can be
had at CarParts for around $80 with my $30 off
coupoon.
later,
Curt
CarParts at:
http://www.mn3s.org/car-parts.html>From:
"stealthdevil" <
stealthdevil@netzero.net>
>To:
"Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>, <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
RE: Team3S: FIPK
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:13:24
-0700
>
>
>Robert,
>
>Instead of going with the
FIPK, go with the K&N Aircharger. Same thing
>with
>a
slightly bigger filter element. The FIPK is more because it comes
with
>some sticker that says it "legal" and it comes with recharge
solution. I
>got my Aircharger from Mach-V Motorsports for
$99. It is made for a 95-99
>Eclipse but it bolts right up without a
problem. I've had mine for over a
>year now and it is still
extremely clean(very dusty Albuquerque, NM) and
>I've passed emissions
with it.
>
>Gabe
>
>'92 Black Stealth TT
>-K&N
Air Charger
>-Stillen Downpipe
>
>'93 Pearl White 3000GT
SL
>-K&N Air Charger
>-Removed Resonator
>-Pioneer Premier
Deck
>-Polk dx9 Speakers
>-Pioneer 400w AMp
>-Pioneer 10"
Sub
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:10:29
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Resonator Bottle Removal Questions
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Moore Mr Dennis W Jr" <
MooreDW@mcsc.usmc.mil>
> Hi
All,
> A couple years ago there was a lot of hubbub about removing the
resonator
bottle. Some folks liked the new acoustics, others claimed it
also improved
performance. If you're one of those folks who did that
mod:
> 1. Has anyone confirmed that performance improves?
>
2. Anyone have any "bad things" happen because of doing this?
>
Thanks. > Dennis Moore
-
---------------------------------------------
This is probably the first
mod that should be done on a non-turbo 3S car...
It's easy, it takes 5
minutes, and it's free. On my NA Stealth I noticed
better
*responsiveness*, and possibly a scoche more power. When in place,
the
resonator appears to do its job, which is to quiet the sound of the rush
of
intake air during hard acceleration. But at what cost? Anything
that
disturbs the intake path slows down intake air, which (simply by
logic)
means that it gets into the engine *slower*. As slight as this
disturbance
may be, according to the NASCAR freaks at Frey Racing, it does
*rob* you of
a scoche of HP. QED, removing the resonator will give you
back that tiny
bit of power. And unless you dislike hearing that slight
"slurp" of air at
WOT enough to give up that performance benefit, there are
no negatives to
removing it. It's described in detail on our FAQ pages,
in the intake
section:
www.Team3S.com/FAQresonator.htmBest,
Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:26:34
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Wheel weights
The official Texas weight of the 1G VR4 Chrome
Wheel Rim (less valve stems
and hubcap) is 28# and 12 oz! Of
course, it didn't have a tire mounted
either.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Sean Winker [SMTP:sean.winker@chrobinson.com]
>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:04 PM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.'
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel weights
>
> I'd appreciate it if you
could
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles
E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 21,
2001 12:22
> To: Sean Winker
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel
weights
>
>
> I am supposed to pick up one from the dealer
today and can weigh it before
> I
> mount the tire.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sean Winker
[SMTP:sean.winker@chrobinson.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001
11:47 AM
> > To:
'team3s@stealth-3000gt.st'>
> Subject: Team3S: Wheel weights
> >
> > Does anyone know
off hand the weight of a 1st gen OEM wheel from a TT or
> >
VR4(17")?
> >
> > Sean
> > '91 R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:02:13
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Resonator Bottle Removal Questions
> unless you dislike
hearing that slight "slurp" of air
> at WOT enough to give up that
performance benefit, there
> are no negatives to removing it.
I don't have the capability to test this specifically in the
3000GT
engine, but in a generic system with an accumulator/resonator in the
intake
air path...
<geek=on>
... the accumulator also
lessens the hammer shock effect of the intake
valves' closing and tends to
dampen the oscillations in overall intake
velocity due to the non-linear
vacuum created by the motion of the pistons.
This is in addition to providing
noise cancellation at certain RPM ranges by
generating out-of-phase sound
waves properly tuned to offset the existing
intake noise.
</geek>
Thus, in lay-terms, having the resonator installed
would be easier
on your valves (and probably throttle plate), make your
engine quieter at
certain RPM, and cause your intake airflow to be
smoother. The "smoothing
out" function is very similar to a capacitor
in an electrical circuit if you
are of the EE persuasion of have experience
with big car stereos. I'm not
sure whether a "smoother" airflow offers
more total airflow (and thus more
HP) in this case.
AFAIK, this
would depend on whether the hammer shock effect from the
valves could cause
the pressure inside an adjacent cylinder to rise above
ambient
pressure. If so, removing the resonator could generate more power
by
raising the average intake pressure at a cost of larger fluctuations in
that
pressure. Otherwise, removing the resonator would cause the engine
to
produce *less* power because the oscillations in intake pressure would
have
larger amplitude and the same maximum value. Thus you'd have a
lower
average pressure. I can go into more detail if people are
interested and I
have some old discussions on this topic from the Starnet
list, but I don't
want to clutter the list unnecessarily.
Since we're
talking about miniscule amounts of change in HP here,
and there's a
possibility that the Mitsu engineers put that resonator in for
reasons other
than noise reduction, my resonator stayed intact.
My 2HP...
-
--Erik
P.S. in the above, I referred to "pressure." This does
not mean I am
referring to a forced-induction (turbo) engine.
Pressure/vacuum depends on
your perspective (and how much you like negative
signs) and for this
discussion I thought it'd be clearer to refer to
everything in terms of
pressure, even though sometimes that pressure is
negative.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:19:50
EDT
From:
NassiriC@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Raise You Hood - Cool Cooling Mod
Hood Raising Details
On
my last post about "low speed knock" I mentioned raising the rear of my
hood
for better cooling, I got a lot of requests for more details, so I
figured
it was worth the bandwidth to send it to the entire group.
I read an
article in Car Craft (July 2001, "Mustang Cold-Air Induction" p.
66).
In the article they put a "cowl" hood on a Mustang set up for drag
racing. They got good reductions in under hood temps (almost to
ambient),
which lead to reduced 1/4 mile times - dropped from 13.02/104 to
12.67/108.
I figured our under hood temps where much higher then the
Mustang, so a
similar modification would help us even more, plus I was tired
of opening the
hood and getting my eyebrows singed off.
To duplicate
a "cowl" hood, I moved the rear of my stock hood up about 2.25
inches and
removed the rubber gasket between the body of the car (firewall)
and the
hood. This gave me a total gap of about 2.5 inches between the hood
and where it used to seal with the body of the car.
This mod
is VERY simple, totally reversible, basically free, and probably
worth a few
extra HP for both the drag racer and the road racer. Once you
get the
basic setup, you can switch between the stock and modified position
in about
15 minutes total. For those of you trying to fit a strut brace
under
the hood, this mod will provide the extra clearance you need, however,
switching back to the stock position would require removal of the strut
bar.
Simply unbolt the 4 bolts (two each side) that bolt the hood to the
hinges,
place a shim between the hood and hinges and then replace the stock
bolts
with slightly longer (about 1 inch longer) bolts. Note: If
you only want to
raise the hood an inch or so, you can stick with the stock
bolts. The hardest
part to the whole thing is finding bolts with the correct
thread pattern to
match the stock bolts. They are not a normal thread,
they have wider
"valleys" (probably not the correct term, but I'm not a bolt
expert) between
the threads. I got lucky and found 4 bolts that were
perfect in my "nuts and
bolts" can in the garage. If you don't have
them lying around, I'm sure you
can find them at the hardware
store.
Before you unbolt anything, scribe or mark the original hinge
location on the
hood, this will make it easier to get the hood back into
position. To make
it easy on yourself, don't unbolt all the bolts at
once, remove one bolt at a
time, then replace it with the longer bolt and
temporarily shim it. This way
you can do the whole thing by yourself
without ever removing the hood. When
all the long bolts are in place
and slightly loose, you can see the way the
hood moves in relation to the
hinges, and it will be obvious how you should
shim it to get the desired
increase in hood height. In my case I machined (a
hack-saw and belt
sander) 4 aluminum shims with a slight angle in them,
however, you can used
just about piece of metal that will give you the
correct amount of
shim. Just don't used flimsy material that will compress
over time or
become loose; even at low speeds there is a lot of force applied
to the
hood, if it's not attached correctly it will fly off!
Even with the large
amount of lift I achieved, everything still clears under
the hood, and the
front hood latch still locks in place firmly, leaving no
gap between the
front bumper cover and the leading edge of the hood. I've
been driving
around like this for about two weeks with no apparent problem.
The
only side-effects that I've noticed are increased noise from under the
hood,
and it seems that the A/C is about 20 degrees colder, this might just
be in
my mind, but even my fiancé commented that the A/C was freezing cold,
so
cold that I have to turn the vents so they don't blow directly on your
skin. Also it should be noted that this configuration will allow rain
water
to run freely into the engine bay - 'technically' everything in the
engine
bay should be water resistant, however, I don't recommend this in
very wet
areas. I'm going to change back to stock when it starts to
rain again here
in Sunny California.
I did take the time to test this
setup, I tried to duplicate the experiment I
read about in the magazine as
closely as possible. Here are my results:
I used a "instant-on"
temperature sensor with a long lead and I measured the
air temps in several
places under the hood, here are my admittedly
non-scientific
results:
Conditions: The car was pre-heated before each test by
driving .8 miles in
stop-and-go conditions, then a run from 0 - 80 mph (WOT)
was made, then
another full throttle run from 0 - 80 mph was made, it was
during this second
run that I noted the air temps. I took two
readings, one at the start of the
run (0 mph) and one at ~75 mph. As I
mentioned above, this is not very
scientific, but I tried to duplicate the
test in the magazine as closely as
possible and I think the results are
interesting:
Hood in stock position - temp prob next to the air
intake.
Test 1 - average of 2 runs
0 mph - 101 F
75 mph - 112
F
Hood in stock position - temp prob attached to firewall below the FPR
solenoid (directly above the 'left' or rear turbo)
Test 2 - one run
0
mph - 138 F
75 mph - 151 F
Hood moved up ~ 2.5" - temp prob next to
air intake.
Test 3 - average of 3 runs
0 mph - 96 F
75 mph - 82
F
Hood moved up ~ 2.5" - temp prob attached to firewall below the FPR
solenoid
(directly above the 'left' or rear turbo)
Test 4 - average of 2
runs
0 mph - 121 F
75 mph - 95 F
To more accurately duplicate the
effects of a cowl hood, I conducted another
test where I duct-taped the
sides of the hood shut so that only the rear of
the hood was open, just as
it would be on a true cowl hood. If you were
driving around the SF Bay
Area a couple of weeks ago and you saw a white VR-4
with its hood duct-taped
in place with liberal amounts of silver tape, you
now know why. When
my fiancé came home and saw the hood 'taped' to the car,
the only thing she
said was; "It's things like this that make the neighbors
think you're
insane". Aesthetics aside, the results of testing the taped
hood were
very similar to test #3 and #4, indicating that the modified hood
position
was indeed pulling air in through the opening in the rear. I guess
those V-8 drag racers with the huge cowl hoods knew what they were talking
about after all.
So what does this all mean? Well I think I can
say that a cowl hood will
reduce the under hood temps, leading to more HP
(based on reduction of air
inlet temps, a theoretical 12.6 hp gain should be
achieved for a slightly
modified VR-4 motor - I would estimate 20 - 25 hp is
closer to the real life
figure) and a cooler/healthier/less detonation prone
engine over all. The
turbos and related pipes and hoses should all
stay a bit cooler which should
extend their lives and add a little to the
over-all power output.
In general, this mod won't give you a huge
gain in HP above and beyond what
you already have, however, it probably will
give you a few extra ponies, and
help you keep the HP you already have after
a lot of heavy driving when
things get hot. The car doesn't look that
bad either, it really is not that
noticeable (without the duct-tape), the
car actually has a very aggressive
look, raising the hood line makes it look
like it has a lot more muscle. I
think a 'proper' cowl hood with the
sides closed would look very good. When
it comes time to upgrade to a
CF hood, I'm going to look into having a cowl
hood design made, rather than
some of the other designs I've seen.
Ok - fire away
Cyrus
SF
Bay Area
'97 VR-4
Gutted Pre-cats
Ported/Polished Heads
Blitz DSBC
HKS SMF Filter
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:19:52
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Wheel weights
My 17x8.5 '92 TT wheel weighs ~29 lb (bathroom
scale). It has been
powder coated, which might be 0.5-1.0 lb extra weight?
The 245/45-17
Nitto 555 weighs 28 lbs.
Current combo is SSR GT1 18x9
(38-mm offset) at 20 lb and 265/35-18
Pirelli P Zero Rosso at 26 lb. 57 vs 46
lbs.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- --- "Willis,
Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
wrote:
> The official Texas weight of the 1G VR4 Chrome Wheel Rim
(less
> valve stems and hubcap) is 28# and 12 oz! Of course,
it didn't
> have a tire mounted either.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:28:03
-0400
From: "Kevin Schappell" <
kevin@schappell.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Raise You Hood - Cool Cooling Mod
Wow you stole my idea!! I
wanted to have a cowl induction hood made from
the stock hood to provide
cooling just like you did. The stock hood has a
raised portion that
runs down the center and I was going to have that raised
about 2" to give me
some cooling. I am glad to see it made a difference and
I will be
looking for an extra hood now to cut up.
Take care,
Kevin
Schappell
http://kevin.schappell.comSave money
on all of your speed parts.
http://www.SpeedShoppers.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:08:54
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel weights
18" chrome oem about 50lbs total w/ sp9000
tires. My aftermarket rpo1s with
Nitto 555 tires in 18" about 47lbs
total.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik <
erik.gross@intel.com>
To: Team3S
List (E-mail) <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:14 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel
weights
>> Does anyone know off hand the weight of a 1st gen
OEM wheel
>> from a TT or VR4(17")?
>
>1G Stealth R/T TT
wheels are about 27-28 pounds each. With a new
stock-size
>tire,
they're about 55-56 pounds each. BTW, the chrome 17" 5-spoke
wheels
>from a '94 VR-4 are significantly lighter (tire + wheel was 47lbs,
but they
>were different tires)! Haven't weighed the 18" monsters on
my VR-4 yet.
>
>--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:57:16
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Wheel weights
I used two different scales that are
certified. One scale is used for
weighing waste film and and the other
is used to weigh silver from our
silver recovery system. I'll weigh my
TE37's and Yoko O32R's next.
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Jeff Lucius [SMTP:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 22,
2001 12:20 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel
weights
>
> My 17x8.5 '92 TT wheel weighs ~29 lb (bathroom scale).
It has been
> powder coated, which might be 0.5-1.0 lb extra weight? The
245/45-17
> Nitto 555 weighs 28 lbs.
>
> Current combo is
SSR GT1 18x9 (38-mm offset) at 20 lb and 265/35-18
> Pirelli P Zero Rosso
at 26 lb. 57 vs 46 lbs.
>
> Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
> ---
"Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
wrote:
> > The official Texas weight of the 1G VR4 Chrome Wheel Rim
(less
> > valve stems and hubcap) is 28# and 12 oz! Of
course, it didn't
> > have a tire mounted either.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:24:35
-0400
From: "Scott Beydler" <
dahogrydr@triad.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Idle
I have a 94 Stealth that will not idle. It idles fine
if I start it with
the engine cold but once it warms up it won't idle.
I have looked at the
archives and saw reference to something called the
Idle Stepper Motor.
Could this be my problem? Someone told me it could
be a fuse under the dash
but I checked it and it seems fine.
Thanks
Scott Beydler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:44:34
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Idle
From: "Scott Beydler" <
dahogrydr@triad.rr.com>
> I
have a 94 Stealth that will not idle. It idles fine if I start it
with
the engine cold but once it warms up it won't idle. I have looked
at the
archives and saw reference to something called the Idle Stepper
Motor.
Could this be my problem? Someone told me it could be a fuse
under the dash
but I checked it and it seems fine. Thanks
> Scott
Beydler
- -------------------------------
First... Try
disconnecting the negative terminal on the battery for about
20 minutes, then
reconnect and drive the car for 10-20 miles. This will put
the ECU into
"learn" mode, to adjust itself to current engine conditions.
If the problem
persists, other systems might be faulty, including the ISM or
various
sensors...
Good luck!
Best,
Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:30:07
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Why large wheels/tires?
Just pondering something - why do
high-performance cars typically have
relatively large wheel/tire
combinations?
I'm not referring to plus-sizing or changing the
profile of tires; I'm
meaning why not go to smaller total diameter
combinations? For example, we
have 245/45/17s or 245/40/18s on
TTs/VR-4s - why not go with 245/30/17s or
245/30/16s?
With all this
talk about wheel weights, it got me thinking, "those big
wheels sure get
heavy, so why do we have them?" If you lighten your wheels
(one way is
making them smaller) and/or lighten your tires, you not only
reduce the dead
weight of the car, but you can substantially reduce the
unsprung weight in
the drivetrain. That would make the car much more
responsive and
faster, too. Reducing the total diameter of the wheel/tire
has a rather
large effect on the rotational inertia of the wheel and tire -
why not go to
some trouble to reduce weight in this manner?
I realize a smaller total
diameter results in a smaller linear (front to
back) contact patch, but does
it make *that* much of a difference,
especially at speed? It seems to
me that the lateral dimension of the
contact patch would have much more
effect. Following this, it would seem
that one would want to get wheels
that were just large enough to clear the
brake calipers and to get tires that
had the minimum sidewall height that
would provide enough cushioning for your
application. Of course, if you
have a fixed gearbox and differentials,
then messing with tire/wheel size
affects your final drive and effective gear
ratios, so maybe that isn't
practical for our cars... but for
people who can change gears, if this
logic is correct, I'd expect to see
people running much smaller wheels and
extremely low-profile tires at the
track. But that's not what I see.
Other than for gearing reasons,
why should I run 245/45/17 tires on my car
rather than 245/40/17 or 245/30/17
tires? Even if it does slightly reduce
the contact patch and thus
traction, we have gobs of traction, so why not?
-
--Erik
P.S. if you're curious as to why I'm asking this, I just put
my stock
wheels back on my base model and drove it a bit. Stock tires
are 225/55/16
on 16x8 wheels. I had 245/45/17 tires on 17x8.5 wheels on
there before -
SAME tires, both sets brand new. With the 225s, the car
feels significantly
more responsive and has only slightly less traction off
the line. Cornering
feels just about the same.
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Lamp Black 3000GT VR-4 (6MT, AWD, 4WS,
ECS) 32,000 mi
FIPK, HKS TT Exhaust,
PRofecA @0.7/0.9, HKS SSBOV,
HKS TTimer, GReddy Boost Gauge,
Syntec 5W50,
BG SynchroShift(TX, TC), Mobil1 (R
Diff),
Toyo Proxes FZ4 245/45/ZR18 on stock (18x8.5")
wheels
'94 Algae-Blue "fun to slide around corners" Corolla 76,000mi
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/home.html
********************* For Sale ************************
'95 Glacier White
Pearl 3000GT (NA, DOHC, 5MT) 78,XXX
mi
Magnacor KV85, Mobil1, K&N FIPK, Firehawk SZ50
225/55/ZR16
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GTSale/3000GTSale.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:41:44
-0400
From: "Kevin Schappell" <
kevin@schappell.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Why large wheels/tires?
Having worked at a tire store, I can tell
you why you would not want to run
a 30 series tire... POTHOLES ! It's
way to easy to dent your rim with a 30
series tire and the ride is very
stiff.
Take care,
Kevin Schappell
http://kevin.schappell.comSave money
on all of your speed parts.
http://www.SpeedShoppers.com>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Gross, Erik
> Sent:
Friday, June 22, 2001 5:30 PM
> To: Team3S List (E-mail)
> Subject:
Team3S: Why large wheels/tires?
>
>
> Just pondering something
- why do high-performance cars typically have
> relatively large
wheel/tire combinations?
>
> I'm not referring to plus-sizing or
changing the profile of tires; I'm
> meaning why not go to smaller total
diameter combinations? For
> example, we
> have 245/45/17s or
245/40/18s on TTs/VR-4s - why not go with 245/30/17s or
>
245/30/16s?
>
> With all this talk about wheel weights, it got me
thinking, "those big
> wheels sure get heavy, so why do we have
them?" If you lighten
> your wheels
> (one way is making them
smaller) and/or lighten your tires, you not only
> reduce the dead weight
of the car, but you can substantially reduce the
> unsprung weight in the
drivetrain. That would make the car much more
> responsive and
faster, too. Reducing the total diameter of the wheel/tire
> has a
rather large effect on the rotational inertia of the wheel
> and tire
-
> why not go to some trouble to reduce weight in this
manner?
>
> I realize a smaller total diameter results in a smaller
linear (front to
> back) contact patch, but does it make *that* much of a
difference,
> especially at speed? It seems to me that the lateral
dimension of the
> contact patch would have much more effect.
Following this, it would seem
> that one would want to get wheels that
were just large enough to clear the
> brake calipers and to get tires that
had the minimum sidewall height that
> would provide enough cushioning for
your application. Of course, if you
> have a fixed gearbox and
differentials, then messing with tire/wheel size
> affects your final
drive and effective gear ratios, so maybe that isn't
> practical for our
cars... but for people who can change gears, if this
> logic
is correct, I'd expect to see people running much smaller wheels and
>
extremely low-profile tires at the track. But that's not what I
see.
>
> Other than for gearing reasons, why should I run 245/45/17
tires on my car
> rather than 245/40/17 or 245/30/17 tires? Even if
it does slightly reduce
> the contact patch and thus traction, we have
gobs of traction, so why not?
>
> --Erik
>
> P.S.
if you're curious as to why I'm asking this, I just put my stock
> wheels
back on my base model and drove it a bit. Stock tires are
>
225/55/16
> on 16x8 wheels. I had 245/45/17 tires on 17x8.5 wheels
on there before -
> SAME tires, both sets brand new. With the 225s,
the car feels
> significantly
> more responsive and has only
slightly less traction off the line.
> Cornering
> feels just
about the same.
>
>
------
----------
> Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
> '95 Lamp Black 3000GT VR-4 (6MT, AWD, 4WS,
ECS) 32,000 mi
> FIPK, HKS TT
Exhaust, PRofecA @0.7/0.9, HKS SSBOV,
> HKS TTimer,
GReddy Boost Gauge, Syntec 5W50,
> BG SynchroShift(TX,
TC), Mobil1 (R Diff),
> Toyo Proxes FZ4 245/45/ZR18 on
stock (18x8.5") wheels
> '94 Algae-Blue "fun to slide around corners"
Corolla 76,000mi
>
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/home.html>
>
********************* For Sale ************************
> '95 Glacier
White Pearl 3000GT (NA, DOHC, 5MT) 78,XXX
mi
> Magnacor KV85, Mobil1, K&N FIPK, Firehawk SZ50
225/55/ZR16
>
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GTSale/3000GTSale.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:57:06
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Idle
>> First... Try disconnecting the negative
terminal on
>> the battery for about 20 minutes, then reconnect
and
>> drive the car for 10-20 miles. This will put the
ECU
>> into "learn" mode, to adjust itself to current
engine
>> conditions.
This bit of nonsense has been repeated so
many times lots of people
believe it. For the straight poop, look at what
Todd Day (the
mastermind behind TMO) has to say about this.
http://www.tmo.com/theory/myth/ecureset.htm-
- the ECM is ALWAYS in learn mode (I have witnessed this with the
TMO
datalogger)
- - the ECM only needs to be unplugged 15 seconds or so
for a "reset"
- - a "reset" restores the idle speed, timing retard, and fuel
trims to
default values
For Scott's high idle problem, an ECM "reset"
is free and can't hurt
(unless of course you don't know the radio security
codes, if you
need them, when you unplug the battery neg terminal). The
stepper
motor does sound like a good candidate as the problem. The
service
manual describes how to test it. The TMO can count the steps for
you.
This part is easily replaced with common tools. The service
manual
also shows how to adjust idle properly. Very easy.
Other
possibilities: throttle cable is adjusted too tight, dashpot
problem,
idle screw problem (bad o-ring?), fast-idle air valve problem.
The
manual lists more possible causes. Remember, the ECM is supposed
to
control idle speed. It uses the stepper motor to do this but there
are
mechanical influences such as the FIAV, dashpot, idle screw, and
the
cable.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:05:05
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Why large wheels/tires?
> Having worked at a tire store, I can
tell you why you would
> not want to run a 30 series tire... POTHOLES
! It's way
> to easy to dent your rim with a 30 series tire
and the ride
> is very stiff.
Good point - I should have clarified
- I meant to say that this was for
track (road course) use where
responsiveness and speed are important and
where there should be a decided
lack of potholes :-) I wouldn't enjoy 30
series tires on the roads
around here - I like my teeth in non-chipped
condition...
-
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:58:26
-0400
From: "Bill Blue" <
bill@webtech-ohio.com>
Subject:
Team3S: another electrical problem
I have a '93 SOHC Stealth. I
replaced the clutch last week and all was well
for about 12 hours.
While driving the car just died.
It's blowing the fuse for the
computer/power transistor/coil. It started
out just blowing it every so
often. Now it pops the fuse as soon as you
turn the key. I've
checked the engine bay to make sure I didn't pinch any
wires putting the
transaxle back in and everything seems to be connected
properly. The
only thing I had to unplug to get the tranny out was the MAS.
Any
ideas?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:23:33
EDT
From:
DiABLoCarAudio@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Why large wheels/tires?
If you go with a smaller diameter tire,
your top speed would be lowered and
acceleration would be slowed down.
Redline would be at a lower speed as
well... I'm guessing you already
thought of that, but it's still something I
would consider before going with
a smaller tire.
- -Paul
Norwood, MA
1992 Pearl White
RT/NA
For Sale.. =(
http://209.58.199.225/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=194310
http://www.3si.org/member-home/diablocaraudio1992
Green RT/TT
K&N FIPK
1000CA
800CCA Battery
Porterfield Cryo-Treated Rotors & R-4S
Pads
Porterfield Custom Stainless Steel Brake
Lines
Denso Platinum Spark Plugs Re-gapped @
.034"
Greddy Profec Boost Controller @ .9
Bar
Custom 3" Exhaust to Apex
Muffler
15K miles on Rebuilt Engine
Hard-Wired Cobra Radar Detector
Viper Alarm
System
Pioneer DEH-P8000R
PowerAcoustik 1600 Watt Amp
Power Precision 200 Watt
Amp
Dual Xtant 10" 500 Watt
Subs
1 Farad Stiffening Capacitor
3Si1127
Team3S
& StarNet
Diablo Car Audio
www.DiabloCarAudio.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:16:22
-0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Update, was NEED HELP!!! Car won't start again
Well, after
sitting two days in my driveway, my car runs again although I
did
nothing! I did verify that the HKS Turbo Timer is not the problem
since
I was able to unplug it and it ran fine. I will replace the Crank
Angle
Sensor like Matt suggested as that is a likely candidate.
Thanks
everyone,
Ken
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh"
<
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
To:
"Team3S (E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, June 19, 2001 7:58 PM
Subject: Team3S: NEED HELP!!! Car won't start
again
> Hi Folks,
>
> My '91 VR4 in not starting
again. After sitting in the 95 degree F sun
for
> a few hours
this afternoon, I started my car. It ran for 15-20 seconds,
> then
the engine died. It wouldn't start again although the starter
cranks
> fine and the battery seems strong. Some may remember that I
had the same
> problem last November. I had cleaned the relays
inside my aftermarket
alarm
> and I thought that had solved the
problem. The car ran fine for the last
6
> months. Anyway,
here is what I've done so far today:
>
> 1) Swapped the ECU for the
unit in my friend's '92 VR4.
> 2) Replaced a relay which I believe is the
"ignition kill" relay to my
> aftermarket alarm. However, I am now suspect
that this is really the relay
> to flash the lights during an alarm since
when I connected the lead to the
> normally closed lead, the dash and
running lights came on.
> 3) Verified that the relay solenoids inside the
aftermarket alarm are not
> "frozen".
> 4) Unplugged my HKS Turbo
Timer.
> 5) Unplugged all wires from my aftermarket alarm, but then the
starter
> wouldn't turn.
> 6) I can hear the fuel pump when I first
turn on the ignition. I can also
> smell fuel after the engine
cranks for a 10 seconds or so.
>
> Car still won't start. I
have no info on the Turbo Timer (it was
installed
> when I bought the
car). If I unplug the unit from the harness, do I need
to
> jump
some wires? (Also, the gray wire is unconnected. Can someone
tell
me
> what it is for?) Are there any ignition components that
tend to fail,
crank
> or cam sensors?
>
> All help and
suggestions are highly welcome. Thanks in advance,
>
Ken
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 00:40:23
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Why large wheels/tires?
Remember we are talking about
changing gear ratios also, meaning that you
could keep the same gear ratios,
top speed, and others...
- -Cody