Team3S
Wednesday, June 6
2001
Volume 01 : Number
511
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:23:59 -0500
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <
stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: : She's alive ! but
We installed new lifters on a car, and
it ticked like crazy... even if
we revved the car a little. We even let it
idle for around 3 minutes
before shutting it off thinking something was
wrong. Took the
valvecover off, and lifters didn't feel overly hard or soft,
so didn't
know what to do.
Later we found out, that if we just drove
the car around a little and
put a little load on the engine, the lifters
would stop ticking for
good. I guess you need lots of oil pressure to
repressurize lifters
that have been out of the head for a while, or cleaned
out.
Follow the manual directions when installing new lifters, you
don't
want them to be filled with oil, there is a valve you should depress
I
think, while it's in oil but not sure at this moment, and can't
check
right now. I believe the "2nd gen" lifters have a larger oil hole
on
top, and that's about it (visually).
> Subject: Team3S: She's
alive ! but ...
> Problem 3 : tick-tick-tick (question)
>
>
Well it sounds ... horrible. I never heard that much ticking and
it
didn't
> went away so far. Oil pressure is great, thicker race oil
used to
start but
> the sound is more than annyoing. To my shame I
don't know what
lifters I
> used. I checked my spare cyl. heads and the
lifters where in, but
the 2nd
> gen or the 1st gen ones. Can someone
describe me visual differences
between
> those two versions of the
lifters ?
Vinny Singh
http://www.ecanfix.com/ - Your Chicagoland
IT/IS solution provider!
http://manualcd.dsm.org/ - DSM & 3/S
Service manuals on CDROM
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 2001 19:56:48
-0700
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 1st Vs 2nd Gen Lifters & timing mark
I have a answer for one
of Roger Gerl's questions and a possible answer for another
question.
<Problem 3 : tick-tick-tick (question)
<Can someone
describe me visual differences between>
<those two versions of the
lifters ? >
The first genrations lifter (noisy) only has a .040"
diameter hole in the rounded tip.
The 2nd generation Lifter (quiet I
hope) has a much bigger .125" diameter hole in rounded tip.
I just
measured these parts with a cheap dial caliber so I may be off a little but
there is a major difference in hole diameters.
< problem 4 :
timing>
<I'm almost positive that I skipped the belt on the crank one
teeth during installation...>
I have not verified this myself yet but
while lurking
I noticed that Jeff VanOrsdal (
jeffv@1nce.com) and Brad Bedell were discussing
that the 1g timing gear is 1 tooth different from the marks on the 2g oil pump
casing. Jeff Was going to set his timing to the 2nd Gen guidlines (I think?) and
give it a try.
I would love to hear from either one on how this turned
out.
P.S. Roger: did you need the following parts to complete your
4-bolt main conversion? I have heard mixed stories on wehter they are needed or
not.
Timing belt lower cover (MD192109)
Bracket, A/C Compressor
Tension Pulley (required for engines produced before January 1992) (MB958144)
[~$40]
Stay, T/M Housing Front Lower Cover (in front, from engine to
bellhousing, because newer oil pan is wider) (MD176109) [~$34]
John
Monnin
1991 VR4 with everything needed to complete 4-bolt main conversion but
time...
jkmonnin@altavista.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 2001 19:56:48
-0700
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 1st Vs 2nd Gen Lifters & timing mark
I have a answer for one
of Roger Gerl's questions and a possible answer for another
question.
<Problem 3 : tick-tick-tick (question)
<Can someone
describe me visual differences between>
<those two versions of the
lifters ? >
The first genrations lifter (noisy) only has a .040"
diameter hole in the rounded tip.
The 2nd generation Lifter (quiet I
hope) has a much bigger .125" diameter hole in rounded tip.
I just
measured these parts with a cheap dial caliber so I may be off a little but
there is a major difference in hole diameters.
< problem 4 :
timing>
<I'm almost positive that I skipped the belt on the crank one
teeth during installation...>
I have not verified this myself yet but
while lurking
I noticed that Jeff VanOrsdal (
jeffv@1nce.com) and Brad Bedell were discussing
that the 1g timing gear is 1 tooth different from the marks on the 2g oil pump
casing. Jeff Was going to set his timing to the 2nd Gen guidlines (I think?) and
give it a try.
I would love to hear from either one on how this turned
out.
P.S. Roger: did you need the following parts to complete your
4-bolt main conversion? I have heard mixed stories on wehter they are needed or
not.
Timing belt lower cover (MD192109)
Bracket, A/C Compressor
Tension Pulley (required for engines produced before January 1992) (MB958144)
[~$40]
Stay, T/M Housing Front Lower Cover (in front, from engine to
bellhousing, because newer oil pan is wider) (MD176109) [~$34]
John
Monnin
1991 VR4 with everything needed to complete 4-bolt main conversion but
time...
jkmonnin@altavista.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:28:58
-0400
From: "Darrien Lao" <
dlao2@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: 1g to 2g
engine timing differences.
I pointed this thread out to Jeff V, but he is
unable to reply directly
after having been removed from the list for no
apparent reason. Anyway, I
forwarded the recent e-mails to him and this
was his response:
- -----------------------
In the course of my
rebuild I found several nagging little differences
involved in the 2nd gen
block conversion. Chief among them was the timing
mark differences
between the 1st and 2nd gen lower timing gears. After
consulting with
Brad and Joe Gonsowski, we verified that the only real
difference is the
placement of the timing notch. It is exactly one tooth
off vs. the 2nd
gen gear. Fortunately, the alignment key on the crank still
lines up
TDC quite well. I just marked the correct tooth with white paint
and
set the timing to 1g specs. I'm sorry, but I cannot remember if the
correct
tooth was clockwise or counterclockwise of the notch. In any case,
the
car has 6000 miles on it now and has run flawlessly since the moment I
first
turned the key. If it makes you feel better Roger, I had the
same
awful noise when I started it up. GT Pro had installed 2g lifters when
they
rebuilt my heads, so I didn't know what to expect. I just bit my tongue
and
let the car run. Gradually, the lifters calmed down and after a
little
driving, there was almost no lifter noise. I was quite proud of
the whole
project. I had never before assembled an engine and this
engine was never
intended for my car anyway. :) If anyone has
questions, you can find me on
3SI.org or Darrien can forward any further
e-mail to me. John was already
kind enough to post my address.
Take care all.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ES TWIN TURBO
-
------------------------
As Jeff said, I'll pass on any list e-mails
pertaining to this topic.
Darrien Lao
dlao2@home.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:47:17
-0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: She's alive ! but ...
>Problem 4 : timing
belt
>
>I'm almost positive that I skipped the belt on the crank one
teeth during
>installation. With the UDP (my car is not a daily driver
anymore) it's
>kinda
>hard to check this and it's a PITA to take
off everything again just for
>checking. Any advice of visually or
electrical checking with an Unorthodox
>Pulley is highly welcome
:)
Roger, does the Unorthodox have a mark on the pulley for TDC? I
would guess
that it does otherwise how would you time it. On the lower
timing belt
cover there is a tab with marks for degrees before/after
TDC. Line up the
mark on the pulley with 0deg. Then pull off the
upper timing belt covers
and check the marks on the cam gears. They
should all line up the the marks
on the heads. If they can't be seen,
you may need to turn the crank one
complete revolution to get the number 1
cylinder at TDC on the compression
stroke.
If the marks on the cam
gears don't line up with the marks on the head when
the crank pulley is
exactly lined up with 0deg then there is something is
wrong with the
alignment. I don't care what anyone says about needing to be
one notch
off...this is to aid in installation!! The end result is that all
marks must line up EXACTLY!!
I've done a few 60Ks so ask
away.
Good luck,
Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
15Gs,ARC2,RC560s,ACT....
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:18:44
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: GC setup
I'm in the process of removing my GC suspension from
my '93 to install in my
'95. I'll post the markings on my springs
tomorrow. I suggest you ask GC
what springs they sold the Willis dudes
in Houston and get the same ones.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Morice, Francis
[SMTP:francis.morice@retek.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:15
AM
> To: Team3S (E-mail); Mn3s (E-mail)
> Subject: Team3S: GC
setup
>
> I am going to be going ahead a Ground Control spring
setup and was
> wondering
> what kind of spring rate I should go
with. It is mostly driven on the
> weekends and I will be doing some
more open track events in the future.
> Any
> input would be greatly
appreciated.
>
>
> Francis
> '96 R/T TT
>
(SAVC-R BC, Spearco WI, Magnacore wires, NGK plugs .32, test pipe,
>
Autometer
> Boost Gauge, RPS TCC, HKS MegaFlow intake, freeflow precats,
Goodridge
> Steel
> Braided Brake Lines, Porterfield
Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads, 1G
> DSM
> BOV)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:28:06
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: SCCA Susquehannock Trails Pro Rally
I watched the SCCA
Susquehannock Trails Pro Rally (STPR),
http://www.stpr.otg, in Wellsboro, PA this past
weekend. This was my first
rally to ever watch live. Nothing like
tv but similar.
Team3S content ... there was a right-hand drive Evo VII
and a few Evo IV
cars that were all left-hand drive. Not bad, but pale
in comparison to the
$500,000 (that's right - a half million dollar car) from
the Prodrive Subaru
team. Neat stuff. Got close-up pictures,
drivers on video, some cars
wrecked/wrecking, etc. I was trying to see
what parts the Evo had since
they will not be in the US officially until next
year (keep our fingers
crossed). Wheels, tires, suspension, engine
parts, seats, belts, rollcages,
gauges, computers, data acquisition systems,
etc.
Many of the Talon and Eclipse cars looked similar (boost gauge,
cigarette
lighter, ashtray, console, etc.) to ours just modified for rally
use. I
loved it. I'll be there next year. I encourage anyone to
visit a rally and
see for yourself how real people drive AWD Turbo
cars. I thought I was
aggressive on gravel until I saw them.
Wow.
(end of Team3S content)
Television does not give you the
burning clutch smell when cars are
struggling up a hill after a water
crossing. It does not let you smell
gasoline as a car running rich
motors by. It also masks the sweet pine
scent from the Portajohns as
you are there with all sorts of characters from
the woodwork.
I loved
it. I took video. My cousin took pictures who co-drives a Talon
on
the Relentless Rallysport team in the Canadian Series (CARS). See
them at
http://www.relentlessrallysport.com/pages/stpr01.html.
I
will hopefully be able to put the video clips on CD for anyone who
is
interested (a small fee for production and shipping would be
welcome). I
will keep an update on the list.
Here is another
site (careful - it is 35 Megs so let me know if I can FTP it
to somebody)
that has an entire stage from an in-car/top-of-the-car camera.
Nice
stuff.
http://www.lagging.com/rzimmer/stpr04a.movhttp://www.lagging.com/rzimmer/stpr04b.movI
am chatting with people to see if I can get Press credentials for next
year
or take official photos at another Club Rally or Pro Rally or Rally
Cross
event. If anyone is capable of doing this then let me know and I
will
be an unpaid employee for a day just to get considered as
Press.
I even am signed up for a Rally School next year. That
should be fun. One
technique they teach is left foot braking. Boy
will they be surprised when
I have already mastered that skill.
<grin>
- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race
seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, Pirelli P-Zeros, Goodridge SS lines,
Magnecor
KV85 wires, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:15:58
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: She's alive ! but ...
Guys, thanks for all the input
:)
>Roger, does the Unorthodox have a mark on the pulley for
TDC? I would
>guess that it does otherwise how would you time
it.
Unfortunately, the grooves on the UPD are small and not visible with
the
timing light :(
>If the marks on the cam gears don't line up
with the marks on the head
>when the crank pulley is exactly lined up
with 0deg then there is
>something is wrong with the
alignment.
Yes, I know but the UDP has even two grooves and this is a
little
confusing. I maybe remove the crank bolt to be able to see the notch
again(should line up with the 0 degree mark).
Will let you know
soon
Thanks
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:15:45
-0700
From: "Steve Clarke" <
steven-c@e-d-a.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Thunderhill & road racing
Hi,
We are planning a mid-week session
at Thunderhill for September 11th. I
will be there driving and
instructing along with the regulars that I run
with.
There will be a
maximum of 20-30 cars with lots of track time. We will run
both the
short (Club) and long courses and are working to include some
slalom and/or
autoX type courses as well. There is likely to be at least
one GTA car
giving demonstrations over lunch. We also had the Panoz guys up
there
last week also.
The regulars are all pretty mellow and the emphasis is on
fun and driving at
your own pace. The cost is a little higher than
regular Drivers Days since
fewer of us are paying for the more track
time. It typically works out at
$225 for the full day.
If
anybody is interested (particularly the left coasters Bob, Geoff ??)
e-mail
me privately.
Steve Clarke
Yellow 94 VR4, FPIK, Manual Boost (14.5),
Eibachs, 1.5 -ve front camber,
2.0 -ve camber rear, exhaust work, Porterfield
cryo rotors, Porterfield R4E
pads, rotor dust shields removed, ram air
cooling and a very sorry set of
Sumitomo HTRZ II's.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:22:48
-0700
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Transmission Upgrade
Searching the old posts it seemed like Jack T was
working on an upgrade
to the Getrag tranny. Jack or anyone out there anyone
know of anything
that exists or anyone capable of doing this. I think this is
worth some
effort since this seems to be the weak link in the drive train
once you
upgrade the standard parts. I can't see the value of going
through
multiple getrag trannys if this could be done. Any information or
tips
would be appreciated.
Rich
92 Stealth TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:23:42
-0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Maximum boost with stock cast pistons
If I were to take all
precautions against detonation, what is the maximum
boost that the stock
pistons can handle. I know that there are several of
you out there
that have found the melt down point(Jack, Arty and probably
everyone else
with forged pistons)..but, what is felt is the same limit? It
is just
a function of boost(i.e. stay under 20psi) or more of EGTs(i.e. stay
under
1900F.)
I'm going to be running race gas(110) and have datalog
capabilities as well
as EGT probes. I have 15Gs with RC560s and an
ARC2 controller.
I'm not ready to tear into the motor quite yet and I
don't want to be
reckless.
What is everyone comfortable
with?
Thanks,
Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:03:39
-0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transmission Upgrade
Rich,
The last E-mail I saw from Jack
T. he said he was not doing anything
on our transmissions.
Do you know
about Kormex ?
Jim
- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard
[mailto:radanc@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 5:23 PM
Cc: Team3S
(E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Transmission Upgrade
Searching the old
posts it seemed like Jack T was working on an upgrade
to the Getrag tranny.
Jack or anyone out there anyone know of anything
that exists or anyone
capable of doing this. I think this is worth some
effort since this seems to
be the weak link in the drive train once you
upgrade the standard parts. I
can't see the value of going through
multiple getrag trannys if this could be
done. Any information or tips
would be appreciated.
Rich
92
Stealth TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S V1
#511
*********************