team3s             Wednesday, May 9 2001             Volume 01 : Number 487




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:50:23 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spacers on / Hope for 1st gens

- --------

+> We (me and the boys at Denny's Mufflers) put the 1/2 in. wheel spacers on
+> my 94 VR4 today. I'd like to tell you it was real easy, but it wasn't. I

understatement.

<snip>
+> In any case, both spacers are in. I do not recommend doing this job
+> yourself unless you have an entire weekend to devote to it, or you have had
+> your front axles/hubs out before and know how to do all this stuff.
+> However, it is a relatively simple job for a brake shop, who does this kind
+> of work every day.

now you know why I was having such a hard time with mine.

+> GOOD NEWS MAYBE!!
+> For all of you who are considering an upgrade to Brad's Big Red kit on a
+> 1st gen car (91-93), you MAY NOT need to buy 94 and up wheels!  Please
+> check with Brad, of course, but those spacers put a full half inch of
+> distance between the inside of the wheel spokes and the Porsche caliper. It
+> MAY BE that you can install spacers instead of buying new wheels. At $100
+> plus labor, that's a whole lot less money than four 94+ wheels and a set of
+>  tires. I don't have a 1st gen, so I don't know where the clearance problem
+> occurs, but I recall someone saying that the Big Reds ALMOST fit a 1st gen,
+> but have only a credit card width of clearance. If so, maybe spacers are
+> the answer.

NO NO NO NO NO......  uh, remember those wheels you wanted to buy from
me?  the 1st gen VR4 wheels?  remember why I was selling them?????????
It aint gonna happen..    don't confuse anyone again..  that's why I
bothered to try the spacers in the first place.  I have the same spacers
you do.  won't work.

+> It should be easy enough to check: Anyone that has a 2nd gen car with
+> spacers could attempt to mount 1st gen wheels. If the spacers allow 1st gen
+> wheels to fit over a 94+ brake caliper, they should easily fit over the Big
+> Reds. If there is anyone in Iowa who wants to try it, give me a shout.

THAT WHAT I DID!!!  I can't vouch for the Big Reds, but stock 2nd gen
calipers won't work with 1st gen wheels!  Which is why my set of 1st gen
wheels are for sale!  Otherwise I would have used them over the Winter!
Is that enough exclamation points?!?!?  ;)


Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =    http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:54:49 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spacers on / Hope for 1st gens

>
>THAT WHAT I DID!!!  I can't vouch for the Big Reds, but stock 2nd gen
>calipers won't work with 1st gen wheels!  Which is why my set of 1st gen
>wheels are for sale!  Otherwise I would have used them over the Winter!
>Is that enough exclamation points?!?!?  ;)
>
Maybe they will fit over the Big Reds but not 94 calipers.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:13:31 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spacers on / Hope for 1st gens

+> >THAT WHAT I DID!!!  I can't vouch for the Big Reds, but stock 2nd gen
+> >calipers won't work with 1st gen wheels!  Which is why my set of 1st gen
+> >wheels are for sale!  Otherwise I would have used them over the Winter!
+> >Is that enough exclamation points?!?!?  ;)
+> >
+> Maybe they will fit over the Big Reds but not 94 calipers.
+>
+> Rich

I re-read your post and realized I sorta jumped the gun.  I think I was
under the assumption that Big Reds were actually larger than the OEM
94+ calipers.  Regardless, the clearance problem is not just with the
spokes, otherwise the spacers would work, thus the reason for my spacer
experiment.  There's another clearance problem in the inner diameter of
the wheel that's not at all obvious.  If the Big Reds don't extend as far
out from the center of the wheel as the 2nd gen OEM caliper, then perhaps
it will work.  I had intended to take pictures of the clearance problem
so everyone could see for themselves, but never got around to it.

anyway, sorry for the knee-jerk reaction.  I just didn't want people to
get their hopes up unnecessarily.  If they are indeed smaller yet better,
I'd sure like to know myself.

Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =    http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:13:58 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spacers on / Hope for 1st gens

>I re-read your post and realized I sorta jumped the gun.  I think I was
>under the assumption that Big Reds were actually larger than the OEM
>94+ calipers. 

Brad can explain better, but as I understand it, the Big Reds are longer
but not as tall. Therefore, they ALMOST work on 1st gens. But that's all I
know on the topic.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:30:15 -0400
From: "Adam M. Kuhn" <amkuhn@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

All,
Received an email today from a Mr. Mike Swinney from Winners Dodge in
Woodhaven, Michigan.  Both of them are 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo's
with the Pearl Yellow paint job, totally loaded with Sunroof, Infinity Sound
and Chrome Wheels.  One of them has 15,000 miles and is unmodified, they are
asking $21,995.00 for it.  The other one hasn't been titled, has 8,000 miles
on it and has been upgraded with Hennessey Turbo's (never heard of that
modification but I have asked for specifics/clarification), they are asking
$25,000 for that one.  I have asked for pictures for both cars and VIN's so
I could run them on Carfax.

Oh, by the way, I CAN RUN VIN's FOR YOU ON CARFAX TILL THE 22nd of JUNE!!  I
bought a 3 month membership for $20 as opposed to one for $17...I will be
more than happy to run a few VINs for anyone, but I am not going to run the
VINs of your entire car lot so be kind!!

I pass both of these cars on to everyone for two reasons.  One, want to see
if anyone is close to the dealership and can go check out the cars (don't do
it yet unless you want to, I am still dealing with the dealer) and Two,
there are two cars and I would only want one of them.  Sound like great cars
and they might as well go to the people that truly love the cars!!!
ALTHOUGH, I personally would have preferred that he purchased two Black
1994's as opposed to two Yellow 1994's...but you take what you find and this
is a great find!!

Apparently the story is the Owner of the dealership bought 2 back in 1994,
upgraded the one and stored it, only putting 8,000 miles on it and used the
other one as a toy car, driving it only on weekends and keeping both in
extremely great care (of course, that is according to the dealership!).

If you are interested in the cars please email me privately
(amkuhn@earthlink.net), I will forward all information that the dealership
provides me as well as give you their website/phone number and a point of
contact.  They seem pretty firm on the purchase prices but you can deal with
them direct on that...

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on the cars/prices/etc as well as if
anyone is in the area and might be willing to check out the cars if I take
it that far.  Thanks again!!

Adam Kuhn
1995 Caracas Red 3000GT Base (DOHC)

PS I am a Captain in the Army, someone asked about clarification on my
promotion...I am only 25 so being a Captain in the Navy is not possible:)


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 01:35:26 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGT probe location

> I know that the consensus has been to install the probes in the exhaust
> manifolds before the turbos(ideally 10" from flame front if I recall.)
But,
> after reading instructions from Autometers site, they say to install them
> after the turbos.

Because AutoMeter is focusing the US-car market and only serves the inport
side a little. The EGT range for them are typically showing this and this is
why they say to install it after the turbo. I accidentially also bought the
Autometer EGT and isntaleld the probes before the turbos. No, I don't like
the cheap meters :(

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:08:29 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

One of the reasons we have a page with prices in the Team3S FAQ pages is to
give used-3S buyers a point of reference.  When a 1994 Stealth TT was new,
it went for $37,000, and the moment you drove it off the lot it lost about
$9k -  it was worth $29,000.  That WAS in 1994 - 7 years ago.  Our prices on
the FAQ-Prices Page are a little high, (since we have not updated them since
the end of last year and the car is a few months older).  But a '94TT listed
there has a *wholesale* price of ~$12k and a *retail* price of $16.5k.
Because of the low mileage, the dealer has priced the unmodified one at FULL
dealer price for a 1996 model, not a '94!  Assuming he put $4k in the
Hennesey mod, the pricing on that one is similarly too high.  Check for
yourselves, www.Team3S.com/FAQ-3Sprices.htm

A suggestion for anyone who is interested in either of these cars: if the
dealer will throw in a full 60k service (the timing belt is 7 years old and
due for a change!), AND include an aftermarket warranty, then the asking
prices are fair.  Otherwise, walk away..., quickly.

Best,

Forrest


- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam M. Kuhn" <amkuhn@earthlink.net>
> All,
> Received an email today from a Mr. Mike Swinney from Winners Dodge in
> Woodhaven, Michigan.  Both of them are 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo's
> with the Pearl Yellow paint job, totally loaded with Sunroof, Infinity
Sound
> and Chrome Wheels.  One of them has 15,000 miles and is unmodified, they
are
> asking $21,995.00 for it.  The other one hasn't been titled, has 8,000
miles
> on it and has been upgraded with Hennessey Turbo's (never heard of that
> modification but I have asked for specifics/clarification), they are
asking
> $25,000 for that one.  I have asked for pictures for both cars and VIN's
so
> I could run them on Carfax.
>
- -----------------snip----------------------

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:24:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

Also guys..carfax ONLY reports what A DMV or insurance company has
submitted.  Its far from foolproof on cars that deserve to be
questionable.

On Tue, 8 May 2001, Bob Forrest wrote:

> One of the reasons we have a page with prices in the Team3S FAQ pages is to
> give used-3S buyers a point of reference.  When a 1994 Stealth TT was new,
> it went for $37,000, and the moment you drove it off the lot it lost about
> $9k -  it was worth $29,000.  That WAS in 1994 - 7 years ago.  Our prices on
> the FAQ-Prices Page are a little high, (since we have not updated them since
> the end of last year and the car is a few months older).  But a '94TT listed
> there has a *wholesale* price of ~$12k and a *retail* price of $16.5k.
> Because of the low mileage, the dealer has priced the unmodified one at FULL
> dealer price for a 1996 model, not a '94!  Assuming he put $4k in the
> Hennesey mod, the pricing on that one is similarly too high.  Check for
> yourselves, www.Team3S.com/FAQ-3Sprices.htm
>
> A suggestion for anyone who is interested in either of these cars: if the
> dealer will throw in a full 60k service (the timing belt is 7 years old and
> due for a change!), AND include an aftermarket warranty, then the asking
> prices are fair.  Otherwise, walk away..., quickly.
>
> Best,
>
> Forrest
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam M. Kuhn" <amkuhn@earthlink.net>
> > All,
> > Received an email today from a Mr. Mike Swinney from Winners Dodge in
> > Woodhaven, Michigan.  Both of them are 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo's
> > with the Pearl Yellow paint job, totally loaded with Sunroof, Infinity
> Sound
> > and Chrome Wheels.  One of them has 15,000 miles and is unmodified, they
> are
> > asking $21,995.00 for it.  The other one hasn't been titled, has 8,000
> miles
> > on it and has been upgraded with Hennessey Turbo's (never heard of that
> > modification but I have asked for specifics/clarification), they are
> asking
> > $25,000 for that one.  I have asked for pictures for both cars and VIN's
> so
> > I could run them on Carfax.
> >
> -----------------snip----------------------

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:46:34 -0400
From: "Adam M. Kuhn" <amkuhn@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

Just because a dealership offers a price for a car doesn't necessarily mean
that is the final price...I think we all know that!  I apologize for
appearing stupid but just thought someone out there would be interested in
the cars.  I am aware of the pricing guide but also know it is a year old
and doesn't really go for a car that has only 8,000 miles...Just wanted the
educated experience of the people that are on this list in reference for a
reasonable price.

Question:  What is the Hennessey Mod?  Or is it in the Archive (I will
check)

Also, I appreciate the info on the carfax report but think we all know the
"buyer beware"...this is just one of the tools out there that is available
and I thought I would offer it to the people on this list as I have already
paid for it till 22 June.

Still looking for a BLACK 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T TT...Pearl Yellow just
isn't me...

Adam Kuhn
1995 Caracas Red 3000GT Base (DOHC)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:24 PM
To: Bob Forrest
Cc: Adam M. Kuhn; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)


Also guys..carfax ONLY reports what A DMV or insurance company has
submitted.  Its far from foolproof on cars that deserve to be
questionable.

On Tue, 8 May 2001, Bob Forrest wrote:

> One of the reasons we have a page with prices in the Team3S FAQ pages is
to
> give used-3S buyers a point of reference.  When a 1994 Stealth TT was new,
> it went for $37,000, and the moment you drove it off the lot it lost about
> $9k -  it was worth $29,000.  That WAS in 1994 - 7 years ago.  Our prices
on
> the FAQ-Prices Page are a little high, (since we have not updated them
since
> the end of last year and the car is a few months older).  But a '94TT
listed
> there has a *wholesale* price of ~$12k and a *retail* price of $16.5k.
> Because of the low mileage, the dealer has priced the unmodified one at
FULL
> dealer price for a 1996 model, not a '94!  Assuming he put $4k in the
> Hennesey mod, the pricing on that one is similarly too high.  Check for
> yourselves, www.Team3S.com/FAQ-3Sprices.htm
>
> A suggestion for anyone who is interested in either of these cars: if the
> dealer will throw in a full 60k service (the timing belt is 7 years old
and
> due for a change!), AND include an aftermarket warranty, then the asking
> prices are fair.  Otherwise, walk away..., quickly.
>
> Best,
>
> Forrest


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:07:11 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Hennessey Mods (was "2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)" )

I'm shocked that the vaunted Team 3S Tech list couldn't come up with an
answer to this.  Anyway, before John Hennessey got into Vipers, he found
gold in our cars.  He created a package he called the VR200 which basically
consisted of mildly upgraded turbos, a boost controller, and some HKS
goodies.  Details can be found on the following page:
http://hometown.aol.com/dwjatwwk/index.html  Apparently ol John abandoned
the VR200 project shortly after the Viper was launched.  He left his
customers in a lurch when he dropped support for the cars and to this day
has "forgotten" that they ever existed.  It really doesn't matter though, as
many of the home tuners (to say nothing of the shops) have far surpassed his
work.

Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:43:53 EDT
From: OrangeFell@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGT probe location

"Because AutoMeter is focusing the US-car market and only serves the inports ide a little."

Contrary to popular opinion, everything is not "US versus The World".  God love the perveance of colonialism in the New World Order though, I'll tell ya. 

"The EGT range for them are typically showing this and this is why they say to install it after the turbo."

Somewhat reasonable explanation for the reasoning, but it has to do with the amount of the EGT's being radiated through the piping.  An V8 with nice big manifolds and litres (be it an LS1 or an M Power series) WILL maintain a higher amount of it's EGT heat after a turbocharger down the legnth of the piping than a smaller six.

This isn't to say the thought it correct for those cars either.  The best numbers will always come off the closest reasonable source- as you mentioned, 10 or so inches in our case off the flame front.  When it comes to readings as important as these, every inch of manifold space counts against a truer reading of what the combustion chamber is seeing itself. 

Kenneth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:08:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: SS line prices...

Looks like I can get us in at abouuuut...

$150+taxes/shipping/graft/etc..

Hows that?


If I can get -8- orders (A number I have chosen) I might be able to scare
$5-15 off that.  So lets call $150 the everyday-low-low-price.

If a group of people place an order together to the same shipping address,
you can save a lot of extra cash that way because if the fewer # of boxes
to ship.  (If four people in Tulsa order sets, that COULD save up to $30
between all four people..as an example)

Being slightly off topic (judgement call) I fear any organization within
specific locales may not work well..so you'll all have to talk amongst
yerselves to work that out unfortunately.

*Guys..this is -not- being offered on the startnet list..just here, so it
seems team3s enough to -me-*

WHO is in?

Email -only- to orders@speedtoys.com with a subject as [team3s] please.

Anything else will very likely fall thru the cracks of a bazillion other
list Emails I get in my main account.

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:03:53 EDT
From: OrangeFell@aol.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: exhaust  system suggestions

Which kinda answers the question if headers are available. 

Yes.  They're available.  An interesting diversion from the Greddy hardware are available from DN Performance out of New York.  Theirs are made from stainless, and not only look amazing, but they're willing to work them at any specs you wish dependent on turbochargers and routing legnth.  They also come with precat eliminators and frontpipe, which will benefit your turbocharger's spooling properties.

You'll find there website and their wares at the URL below.  The stock replacement headers are listed in the Turbo section.

http://www.geocities.com/dnperformance/

Kenneth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: SS lines pricing update

Called em back and worked a little more.

I -think- I got down to $140/set.

Could do $135 but Id definitely have to have at least 12 orders in.

Dont forget to add taxes shipping and bribery to the cost PAST the parts
price.

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:30:21 EDT
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Interesting discovery... and some questions

A little background:
I've been working on getting my 94 Calfornia spec 3000GT (NA) back together
(long story). Anyways, I've got the mechanicals pretty well together and I
can't get the !@#%$^&* thing to start. I've been using a 94 Stealth Service
Manual to get it back together and now to track down the reasons for the no
start problem . Anyways on to the interesting part.

A California spec ECU for a 94 NA DOHC will start and run a non -Calfornia
spec (and almost certainly California spec) VR4.  I leaned this while
tryingto establish if I had a bad ECU and, not living in California, but
having learned from my Service Manual that the 94 California SOHCs, DOHCs and
all (Federal and California) turbos have the same harness plugs and (for far
as I've seen yet) connections for sensors and controls at the ECU setup,
decided to try it on my turbo. Well, it started up and it ran my 94 VR4.

I guess that means I've got a harness problem somewhere(which really sucks).
But, I thought this info might come in handy to someone. Maybe it will help
someone to eliminate the knock sensor and thus prevent from defaulting into
the safety program at higher boost that Roger speaks so much about ( yes,
yes, I know it there for the engine's protection). Maybe it could be used by 
somone with a California NA in conjunction with light turbocharging,
supercharging or even NOS. Maybe it could be used by SOHC owners with higher
octane gas for more agressive timming  I have to assume that the NAs ECU  is
probably lacking some controls (and maybe limits) that the TTs do. I would
also assume there are similar TT to NA compatibilities between 'OBI'
generations and other -year-design changes. Hell, I don't know-maybe it might
lead to a 94 owner being able to use TMO dataloging just by purchasing an
early 93 (or newer) California spec ECU. I  leave that for your greater minds
to comment and figure out.

Anyways, I thought at the least it'd be good to know if your TT won't start
and your friend has a Califonia NA of the same year, that you could test your
ECU out on his car. Of course, that's assuming that a TT ECU will work on a
NA, something I won't be able to establish untill I get this !@#$%^&* car
running (personally I think it will).

My questions will follow in later emails as this one got a bit long...

Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:47:10 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Interesting discovery... and some questions

"A California spec ECU for a 94 NA DOHC will start and run a non -Calfornia
spec (and almost certainly California spec) VR4.  "

This is good news, but we need a bit more information.  Did you drive the
car at all?  At idle and non-boost conditions, a TT engine would function
exactly the same as an NA engine.

"Maybe it will help
someone to eliminate the knock sensor and thus prevent from defaulting into
the safety program at higher boost that Roger speaks so much about "

NA engines have knock sensors too.  They even carry the same part number as
the TT part.

"Maybe it could be used by SOHC owners with higher
octane gas for more agressive timming "

The timing and air/fuel maps would be totally different on the SOHC motor.
The DOHC NA and DOHC TT engines are brothers.  The SOHC is a cousin :)

"Hell, I don't know-maybe it might
lead to a 94 owner being able to use TMO dataloging just by purchasing an
early 93 (or newer) California spec ECU."

Not likely as the 93+ cars switched to a different crank angle sensor, among
other things.

In summary, this is good news from a diagnostic standpoint. I just would
want to drive my car for any distance with the "wrong" ECU plugged in.

Thanks for the info and good luck with your car :)

Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of RDO26@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:30 PM
To: Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Interesting discovery... and some questions


A little background:
I've been working on getting my 94 Calfornia spec 3000GT (NA) back together
(long story). Anyways, I've got the mechanicals pretty well together and I
can't get the !@#%$^&* thing to start. I've been using a 94 Stealth Service
Manual to get it back together and now to track down the reasons for the no
start problem . Anyways on to the interesting part.

A California spec ECU for a 94 NA DOHC will start and run a non -Calfornia
spec (and almost certainly California spec) VR4.  I leaned this while
tryingto establish if I had a bad ECU and, not living in California, but
having learned from my Service Manual that the 94 California SOHCs, DOHCs
and
all (Federal and California) turbos have the same harness plugs and (for far
as I've seen yet) connections for sensors and controls at the ECU setup,
decided to try it on my turbo. Well, it started up and it ran my 94 VR4.

I guess that means I've got a harness problem somewhere(which really sucks).
But, I thought this info might come in handy to someone. Maybe it will help
someone to eliminate the knock sensor and thus prevent from defaulting into
the safety program at higher boost that Roger speaks so much about ( yes,
yes, I know it there for the engine's protection). Maybe it could be used by
somone with a California NA in conjunction with light turbocharging,
supercharging or even NOS. Maybe it could be used by SOHC owners with higher
octane gas for more agressive timming  I have to assume that the NAs ECU  is
probably lacking some controls (and maybe limits) that the TTs do. I would
also assume there are similar TT to NA compatibilities between 'OBI'
generations and other -year-design changes. Hell, I don't know-maybe it
might
lead to a 94 owner being able to use TMO dataloging just by purchasing an
early 93 (or newer) California spec ECU. I  leave that for your greater
minds
to comment and figure out.

Anyways, I thought at the least it'd be good to know if your TT won't start
and your friend has a Califonia NA of the same year, that you could test
your
ECU out on his car. Of course, that's assuming that a TT ECU will work on a
NA, something I won't be able to establish untill I get this !@#$%^&* car
running (personally I think it will).

My questions will follow in later emails as this one got a bit long...

Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:48:32 EDT
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: OK, why won't my !@#$%^& car start?!?

As you probably read in my last post, I can't get my car started. It doesn't
appear that I'm getting EITHER spark or fuel at this point. I can get the
fuel pump to run by supplying power to the fuel pump check terminal by the
battery, but of course with out spark, it still doesn't run.

Any suggestions?

I've been running the "On-vehicle inspection of MFI Components' proceedure
from the service manual. Most things seem to check out, but I have found an
open circuit between the ECU (actually M- as it's Module) and the MFI relay
to ground. If it fails (which it did), it says to repair harness. Well, I
bridged the wire between the two components and still  had no luck. I've had
the harness (and engine) completely out of the car, so I'm wondering if maybe
I have a bad ground somewhere..

Lastly, for those of you who have read and use the service manual, when you
have those tables and under 'Voltage(V)', instead of a number value it says
'B+', does that mean the voltage of the battery?

Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:18:10 -0500
From: "Big Mike" <mike1182@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Hennessey Mods

hmm I have pictures of one of these hennessey modified cars. its a blue vr4
the link is...
http://members.spree.com/sip/mike1182/singlecar/3000gt.htm
dont ask me any more about it though, I just am giving you some more proof
that they exist
Michael Villere
stealth tt fan(hopefully soon to be owner)
94 Chry Lebaron

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List" <Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:07 PM
Subject: Team3S: Hennessey Mods (was "2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl
Yellow)" )


> I'm shocked that the vaunted Team 3S Tech list couldn't come up with an
> answer to this.  Anyway, before John Hennessey got into Vipers, he found
> gold in our cars.  He created a package he called the VR200 which
basically
> consisted of mildly upgraded turbos, a boost controller, and some HKS
> goodies.  Details can be found on the following page:
> http://hometown.aol.com/dwjatwwk/index.html  Apparently ol John abandoned
> the VR200 project shortly after the Viper was launched.  He left his
> customers in a lurch when he dropped support for the cars and to this day
> has "forgotten" that they ever existed.  It really doesn't matter though,
as
> many of the home tuners (to say nothing of the shops) have far surpassed
his
> work.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
> jeffv@1nce.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 01:23:46 EDT
From: GTOTLR@cs.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGT probe location

So where is the best place to place the sensors?  I am going to go with a two
gauge setup so where is the best place for the front and rear bank?


In a message dated 5/8/2001 7:58:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch writes:

>

Royal K. Watkins III       
Senior Programmer Analyst  
T |SYS| Inc.
1995 Black 3000GT VR-4 (3SI #210)   
2000 Yellow TL1000R

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:44:18 +0200
From: "Mikael Kenson" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spacers on / Hope for 1st gens

Rich,

Are the wheels inside the fenders?? I only have 6mm spacer in front and my wheels are outside the fenders. I have 245/40-18 tires and 46mm offset 8,5" wide rims.

/Mikael Kenson http://www.3000gt.nu
 


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:16:08 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OK, why won't my !@#$%^& car start?!?

At 08:48 PM 5/8/01 , RDO26@aol.com wrote:
>As you probably read in my last post, I can't get my car started. It doesn't
>appear that I'm getting EITHER spark or fuel at this point. I can get the
>fuel pump to run by supplying power to the fuel pump check terminal by the
>battery, but of course with out spark, it still doesn't run.

It may be a long shot, but sometimes when an engine is first installed
after being out for a while or rebuilt, it will crank and crank but wont
start unless you coax it with some starting fluid. try spraying some in
where one of the I/C hoses connects to the y-pipe while cranking.


>Lastly, for those of you who have read and use the service manual, when you
>have those tables and under 'Voltage(V)', instead of a number value it says
>'B+', does that mean the voltage of the battery?


Yes

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 04:35:23 EDT
From: NassiriC@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: RE: Blitz DSBC problems (Greddy Boost Gauge)

Walton wrote:
>"I have a Greddy electronic boost gauge (with sensor inside the engine bay),
>which reads in kg/cm2 same as the DSBC. Since I installed the DSBC,
>its boost reading has always readabout 0.1 to 0.15 kg/cm2 MORE than the
gauge."


Walton,
A couple of questions; Are you using the 60mm Greddy electronic boost gauge
with peak hold and warn function?  This is what I'm using, it is very
high-quality and very accurate in my opinion.  What are you using as your
boost source for the gauge and the DSBC?  If you are using the Fuel Pressure
Regulator Solenoid line (the small vacuum tube coming out of the back of the
plenum), do both devices have their own tee coming off the line?  Is the
boost difference you see at peak boost?  For example: if you go for a drive
and then check the peak boost on the DSBC and Greddy, is the DSBC showing .1
to .15 higher peak value than the Greddy? 

If anything, the DSBC should be reading LOWER than the Greddy.  Here are the
four reasons I can think of (in order of probability) that your DSBC is
showing HIGHER boost than the Greddy

1.  When you installed the Greddy did you use the brass restrictor plug in
the plastic tee they supplied?  If you did, this is almost certainly your
problem.  The instructions tell you to use this brass restrictor plug only if
the gauge needle bounces or vibrates.  From what I understand this restrictor
will delay the boost response to the boost sensing unit (the remote sensing
unit located in the engine bay), in which case the peak boost will not be
accurate, it will read lower than actual boost levels.  If you're using the
brass restrictor, get rid of it.  If you didn't install the gauge yourself
and you're not sure if it's there, find the tee that leads to the Greddy
remote pressure sensing unit, pull the vacuum tube off the tee, if you see a
small brass piece stuck in the tee or the tube, pull it out, you don't need
it.  Problem solved.

2.  There could be damage to the vacuum tube supplying the Greddy remote
pressure sensing unit.  Check the tube, if it has a kink, or any sort of
damage replace it.

3.  The Greddy remote pressure sensing unit may be malfunctioning, or the
gauge may be mechanically inaccurate - both are unlikely, but if you have
another boost gauge laying around, install it and compare the two.

4.  There could be something wrong with the DSBC electronics - almost
impossible to test for, and very unlikely


Good Luck
Cyrus

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:34:21 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: SS lines pricing update

Not that this needs any endorsement but these lines are well worth the $200
on the street and $150 is a steal (if nothing else then buy them at $150 and
sell them on Starnet for $200).

I installed these lines with my Big Reds and there definitely is a sure
pedal feel now as there was not with the stock rubber lines.  Anybody who
wants a little more braking performance then these are for you.  I encourage
you to add this instead of a Turbo Timer for $100.  These lines are much
more worth it in the long run and your local brake shop will be impressed
when they peer up in the wheel area next time.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:26 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: SS lines pricing update

Called em back and worked a little more.

I -think- I got down to $140/set.

Could do $135 but Id definitely have to have at least 12 orders in.

Dont forget to add taxes shipping and bribery to the cost PAST the parts
price.

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 05:48:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGT probe location

First, the turbos use the heat (energy) to turn the turbine wheel
(along with the kinetic energy in the exhaust gas). This means the
turbo will change the EGT. This just complicates the interpretation
of the EGT. IMHO, put the EGT pyrometer before the turbo or save your
money.

Second, use an EGT gauge that will go to at least 1832ºF (1000ºC) as
many of us see these temp levels under sustained boost in higher
gears.

Third, according to Richard Stone in his Introduction to Internal
Combustion Engines, 3rd ed. (available from SAE) combustion temps
start around 2200ºK (3500ºF), increase to about 2800ºK (4580ºF), and
fall off to below 2000ºK (3140ºF) at the end of the cycle. The EGT we
see is an indicator of processes and conditions related to combustion
as well as the energy-level changes experienced by the exhaust gas in
the head and manifold. The EGT is not a measurement of combustion
temps directly.

My opinion is that the classic V8 rules of thumb should stay with
those engines. The EGT, IMHO, is a relative indicator in our cars.
Know your car, know how to tune it, use the EGT info to help with
that. Don't panic if the EGT exceeds 900ºC (1652ºF). The EGT must be
used in context with other information.

Also, the Stealth Technical Information Manual (available exclusively
from the Tech Page at my web site) indicates that the ECU can control
the fuel mixture in each cylinder bank separately using the O2
sensors. This is a good reason to have an EGT pyrometer in each
manifold for both tuning and warning purposes.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: EGT probe location

I know that the consensus has been to install the probes in the
exhaust manifolds before the turbos(ideally 10" from flame front if I
recall.)  But, after reading instructions from Autometers site, they
say to install them after the turbos.
<snip>
Could this be why many are seeing such high EGTs??  Autometers gauges
only go up to 16-1700deg F.  Many are getting much higher temps.

Thanks,

Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:22:26 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

John Hennessey did a lot of mods on VR4's when they were new.  Basically, he
(and mechanics who worked with him) pioneered a lot of the Stages of mods
that we consider standard on VR4's.  They were mostly applying stuff that
was already in use with earliuer Japanese supercars. He is in Houston and
refuses to touch VR4's now, and only works on Vipers.  I have copies of some
old newsletters his organization used to publish.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam M. Kuhn [SMTP:amkuhn@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:47 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)
>
> Just because a dealership offers a price for a car doesn't necessarily
> mean
> that is the final price...I think we all know that!  I apologize for
> appearing stupid but just thought someone out there would be interested in
> the cars.  I am aware of the pricing guide but also know it is a year old
> and doesn't really go for a car that has only 8,000 miles...Just wanted
> the
> educated experience of the people that are on this list in reference for a
> reasonable price.
>
> Question:  What is the Hennessey Mod?  Or is it in the Archive (I will
> check)
>
> Also, I appreciate the info on the carfax report but think we all know the
> "buyer beware"...this is just one of the tools out there that is available
> and I thought I would offer it to the people on this list as I have
> already
> paid for it till 22 June.
>
> Still looking for a BLACK 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T TT...Pearl Yellow just
> isn't me...
>
> Adam Kuhn
> 1995 Caracas Red 3000GT Base (DOHC)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:24 PM
> To: Bob Forrest
> Cc: Adam M. Kuhn; Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)
>
>
> Also guys..carfax ONLY reports what A DMV or insurance company has
> submitted.  Its far from foolproof on cars that deserve to be
> questionable.
>
> On Tue, 8 May 2001, Bob Forrest wrote:
>
> > One of the reasons we have a page with prices in the Team3S FAQ pages is
> to
> > give used-3S buyers a point of reference.  When a 1994 Stealth TT was
> new,
> > it went for $37,000, and the moment you drove it off the lot it lost
> about
> > $9k -  it was worth $29,000.  That WAS in 1994 - 7 years ago.  Our
> prices
> on
> > the FAQ-Prices Page are a little high, (since we have not updated them
> since
> > the end of last year and the car is a few months older).  But a '94TT
> listed
> > there has a *wholesale* price of ~$12k and a *retail* price of $16.5k.
> > Because of the low mileage, the dealer has priced the unmodified one at
> FULL
> > dealer price for a 1996 model, not a '94!  Assuming he put $4k in the
> > Hennesey mod, the pricing on that one is similarly too high.  Check for
> > yourselves, www.Team3S.com/FAQ-3Sprices.htm
> >
> > A suggestion for anyone who is interested in either of these cars: if
> the
> > dealer will throw in a full 60k service (the timing belt is 7 years old
> and
> > due for a change!), AND include an aftermarket warranty, then the asking
> > prices are fair.  Otherwise, walk away..., quickly.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:34:29 -0400
From: "Volthause" <volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch Woes...

Symptom:  Clutch pedal presses to the floor and does not return.  Car can't
shift in or out of gears... obviously the clutch is no longer disengaging.
All the fluid is gone from the clutch master cylinder.  Hydraulic fluid can
be seen leaking off the passenger side underside of car.

Am I looking at a blown clutch slave cylinder?  Or perhaps a blown line?  I
suppose I should get my lazy ass out underneath the car and take a look, but
it was dark last night when this all happened, and luckily it happened right
when I pulled into my parents driveway for a visit.

If it is the clutch slave, is it a reasonably easy part to replace in a
driveway using basic tools, jackstands and a jack?  Or should I just have it
flat-towed to my mechanic?

Thanks,
Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:02:08 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Clutch Woes...

> Symptom:  Clutch pedal presses to the floor and does not
> return.  Hydraulic fluid can be seen leaking off the
> passenger side underside of car.

> Am I looking at a blown clutch slave cylinder?  Or perhaps a
> blown line?

One of those two, yes.  Only way to find out is to start digging around to
see where the fluid leaked from.  You can get at the clutch slave cylinder
and its nearby lines from above so you don't need jacks/jackstands.  You'll
need to pull out the battery, battery tray, and probably the air intake pipe
for the rear turbo.  At that point you should see the slave cylinder on the
rear/top of the tranny pushing on the clutch pivot fork.  If there's fluid
all over the rubber boot on the slave cylinder, then the slave should be
replaced.  If not, then check the line attached to it for leaks.

Shouldn't be too hard to do in the driveway.  Just take notes of how
everything comes apart to get it back together easier.  There are alignment
marks on the intake tubes so you can get that back in place pretty easy.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:08:22 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Clutch Woes...

Good news!  You won't need a jack ;)

You will need to:

Remove the battery, battery tray and washer fluid bottle.  (10mm & 12mm
sockets & wrenches)
Quickest way to the slave cylinder is to look under the turbo inlet hoses
toward the rear turbo.

The slave cylinder it attached to the transmission with two 12mm bolts.
Remove the bolt that holds the line in place, loosen the banjo bolt that
attaches the line to the cylinder.  Then remove the two cylinder bolts.

Replace & bleed per the factory service manual.

While you're in there, I'd also replace the clutch master cylinder.  If one
exploded, the other is not far  behind.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Volthause
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 8:34 AM
To: 3000GT
Subject: Team3S: Clutch Woes...

Symptom:  Clutch pedal presses to the floor and does not return.  Car can't
shift in or out of gears... obviously the clutch is no longer disengaging.
All the fluid is gone from the clutch master cylinder.  Hydraulic fluid can
be seen leaking off the passenger side underside of car.

Am I looking at a blown clutch slave cylinder?  Or perhaps a blown line?  I
suppose I should get my lazy ass out underneath the car and take a look, but
it was dark last night when this all happened, and luckily it happened right
when I pulled into my parents driveway for a visit.

If it is the clutch slave, is it a reasonably easy part to replace in a
driveway using basic tools, jackstands and a jack?  Or should I just have it
flat-towed to my mechanic?

Thanks,
Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:08:19 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spacers on / Hope for 1st gens

>Are the wheels inside the fenders?? I only have 6mm spacer in front and my
wheels are outside the fenders. I have 245/40-18 tires and 46mm offset 8,5"
wide rims.
>
Yes. When I look straight down at the fender, the wheel does not protrude.

Rich>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:16:39 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch Woes...

The slave cylinder is a bit of a pain but not too bad --- you need to pull the
battery and windshield washer bottle and maybe the 'Y' pipe. The slave
cylinder is on top of the transmission on the firewall side. Two bolts hold it
in place but the big pain is usually the hydraulic line.

If you have a good set if line wrenches [ Snap-On or such ] it would be
easier --- I use my old shade tree method. Using a good set of channel
locks get a solid grip on the flair nut --- make sure it's on the flats of the
nut ] --- turn firmly until you hear the nut brake loose then remove the rest
of the way with a wrench. The channel locks may have damaged the flats
it was gripping but there are four more good ones --- if you mess around
and start slipping and moving the channel locks then plan on a new line or
trying to do the whole thing with them.

        Jim Berry
==================================================


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Volthause <volt@vozuluzov.com>
To: 3000GT <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>

> Symptom:  Clutch pedal presses to the floor and does not return.  Car can't
> shift in or out of gears... obviously the clutch is no longer disengaging.
> All the fluid is gone from the clutch master cylinder.  Hydraulic fluid can
> be seen leaking off the passenger side underside of car.



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:19:40 -0600
From: "Zach Sauerman" <axemaddock@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: leaking lubricant

Good morning!
I have a '94 Stealth Turbo and love her very much. But now she needs my
help, and I need some of yours.
After playing on Sunday I got back to my parking space and as I went to put
my cover on I noticed I was leaking fluid. Yesterday I went down to discover
just what was leaking.
It is a golden, amber color on the car in drip form, but nearly clear on my
finger tip. It is all over the front of the transmission, and has blown
across the bottom. It has attracted a lot of dirt, so it must have started
early in playtime. It tastes horrible (yes, I utilize all my senses to try
to discover what something is.) I use that new Havoline coolant that is
orange, but what I tasted was not ethylene glycol. It feels very slippery,
and was viscous at 70degrees.
What is it? I cannot tell if it is Mobil 1 or the 75W-90 from the tranny.
The previous owners always took the girl to their friendly Dodge dealer for
service, so I assume what's in there is the MOPAR fluid. I have never seen
that stuff, so I don't know how to tell what it looks like- ie color or
'feel.' The only motor oil I have tasted is Valvoline, so I don't know if
what I tasted was Mobil.
My plan was to degrease the tranny as best I can- I already sprayed what I
could with the pressure wand at the car wash, but I need to get on a lift
and get degreaser really up in there. Then, I am going to check the tranny
oil level. (At my last motor oil change she didn't fill right to the top of
the dipstick, so I can't tell if I have leaked motor oil) I then planned on
changing the tranny oil to something that has a distinct color. Any ideas
from anyone on an oil I should buy? Is Redline MT-90 any special color? (I
wanted to put that in there anyway, this is a good excuse) Could I get away
with auto-tranny fluid for a little while to see if what is leaking becomes
red an not amber?
I want to avoid having to drop the tranny until I know if it or the motor is
leaking. I haven't smelled oil while driving, if that's a question you might
have.
Thank you very much.

Repsectfully,
Zach Sauerman
94 Stealth R/T Twin
Pearl Yellow

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:47:00 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGT probe location

>Somewhat reasonable explanation for the reasoning, but it has to do with
>the amount of the EGT's being radiated through the piping.  An V8 with
>nice big manifolds and litres (be it an LS1 or an M Power series) WILL
>maintain a higher amount of it's EGT heat after a turbocharger down the
>legnth of the piping than a smaller six.

The basic story is that a turbocharger must act as a resistance in the
exhaust path. To keep the turbo spooled, the pressure before and after the
turbine must be different. Therefore the pressure is much higher in the
exhaust manifold what also results in higher temperatures !  But it's not
the heat that drives the turbine wheel it is fully pressure related.

For sure I'd install the probes in the manifolds infront the turbos where
the average temperature of three cyls is measured. In fact it doesn't count
much in a turbo manifold as the temp will rise above the normal readings
for sure.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:58:40 -0400
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

Hi all,


>All,
>Received an email today from a Mr. Mike Swinney from Winners Dodge in
>Woodhaven, Michigan.  Both of them are 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo's
>with the Pearl Yellow paint job, totally loaded with Sunroof, Infinity
>Sound
>and Chrome Wheels.  One of them has 15,000 miles and is unmodified, they
>are
>asking $21,995.00 for it.  The other one hasn't been titled, has 8,000
>miles
>on it and has been upgraded with Hennessey Turbo's (never heard of that
>modification but I have asked for specifics/clarification), they are asking
>$25,000 for that one.

Okay.  I thought that I would lend a little more info on this one.
I looked up the "true" value on these puppies, referencing the NADA (little
orange book) value (Kelley's is written by/for car dealers).
                                    Trade-in    Retail
1994 Stealth Henn TT, 8k miles:     13,125      15,530
1994 Stealth TT, 15k miles:         13,125      15,530

Add about 3k to the Hennessey model (parts and scarcity), and that brings
the other to about 18k retail.

The following is my opinion:
   If you are looking for Pearl Yellow, it was a specially requested color,
so add about $1k to each (that is, if you are explicitly looking for pearl
yellow).
Also, low mileage is really underrated in terms of value, in my opinion
(very hard to find mileage this low).  Add another $1500 to each.

This would bring the retail value to about $20,000 and $17,000,
respectively.
Of course, it is not a good "deal" unless you can get the car for somewhere
between NADA trade-in and NADA retail.
If anyone is seriously considering these cars, your goal should be to pay
about $17k, and $15k, respectively.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
   Dennis Bretton

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:47:23 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: leaking lubricant

> It is a golden, amber color on the car in drip form, but
> nearly clear on my finger tip. It is all over the
> front of the transmission, and has blown across the
> bottom.

Sounds like tranny fluid to me.  There's a little rubber breather on top of
the tranny - see if the fluid trail leads you there.  Most likely that's
your culprit.  My car does it also after high-speed runs.  I guess the gears
just whip around enough tranny fluid that some of it makes its way through
the breather.  I've considered it "normal" for my car and haven't personally
found a fix.

> It tastes horrible (yes, I utilize all my senses
> to try to discover what something is.)

Gack!  Not sure how tasting it helps - I'd think most all the fluids would
taste awful.  Much easier (and safer) to just follow the trail.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:59:51 -0500
From: "Berrios, Victor L" <VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)

FYI
I paid $24K for my '96 VR-4 Pearl White, 14K miles.

R/ Victor
,93 3K GT Black
'96 VR-4 Pearl White

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dg B [mailto:dbretton@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:59 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: 2 Deals on 1994 Stealth's TT (Pearl Yellow)


Hi all,


>All,
>Received an email today from a Mr. Mike Swinney from Winners Dodge in
>Woodhaven, Michigan.  Both of them are 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo's
>with the Pearl Yellow paint job, totally loaded with Sunroof, Infinity
>Sound
>and Chrome Wheels.  One of them has 15,000 miles and is unmodified, they
>are
>asking $21,995.00 for it.  The other one hasn't been titled, has 8,000
>miles
>on it and has been upgraded with Hennessey Turbo's (never heard of that
>modification but I have asked for specifics/clarification), they are asking
>$25,000 for that one.

Okay.  I thought that I would lend a little more info on this one.
I looked up the "true" value on these puppies, referencing the NADA (little
orange book) value (Kelley's is written by/for car dealers).
                                    Trade-in    Retail
1994 Stealth Henn TT, 8k miles:     13,125      15,530
1994 Stealth TT, 15k miles:         13,125      15,530

Add about 3k to the Hennessey model (parts and scarcity), and that brings
the other to about 18k retail.

The following is my opinion:
   If you are looking for Pearl Yellow, it was a specially requested color,
so add about $1k to each (that is, if you are explicitly looking for pearl
yellow).
Also, low mileage is really underrated in terms of value, in my opinion
(very hard to find mileage this low).  Add another $1500 to each.

This would bring the retail value to about $20,000 and $17,000,
respectively.
Of course, it is not a good "deal" unless you can get the car for somewhere
between NADA trade-in and NADA retail.
If anyone is seriously considering these cars, your goal should be to pay
about $17k, and $15k, respectively.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
   Dennis Bretton

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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