team3s
Thursday, May 3
2001
Volume 01 : Number
483
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 02 May 2001 18:06:56 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Gauge Problems
>I have attached a small picture. The
gauges are fuel pressure (electric),
>oil pressure (mechanical) and water
temp (mechanical). The boost gauge is
>located on the
A-pillar. I believe this pic.
>was taken going down the freeway in
fourth gear.
>
OK, rip those gauges out of there and reposition them.
Everybody knows that
a REAL race car is arranged so that under normal
operating conditions, all
the gauges point straight up. That way, a driver
can glance at the gauges
to see if any one is not pointing up, and he doesn't
have to actually read
what the gauges say. Unless one is not pointing up,
that is.
In the process control biz, we usta call that "lining out the
plant."
They do look nice, though, I'll give you that. Maybe they are OK
as they are.
Rich/old poop>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:37:49
-0400
From: "Michael Bulaon" <
profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Which 15g's do I get?
Ok, I've pretty much settled on 15g's for
my turbo upgrade.
I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if I
should go with TEC 15g's
or any 15g's I can find such as the one's
from
http://www.turbochargers.comReason
I'm asking is because the ones at turbochargers.com are the cheapest
I've
found so far. $925 each.
Also anyone with experience with turbos from
turbochargers.com would be
helpful.
Regards,
Michael
Bulaon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:56:03
-0700
From: "John Paul Dauber" <
jpdauber@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Turbo replacement / repair
I have a set of the DR-500 turbos.
I think that most people will be
extremely pleased with them. They are more
than sufficient to produce
maximum power on pump gas. They can even be bumped
up to 20 psi that will
taper off to around 15 psi on race gas. These are the
perfect street turbo.
It make no sense to go out and spend massive amount of
money on turbos if
you aren't going to consistently turn the boost way up. On
the other
hand...if you plan on running the car hard and you want to hold
that 20 lbs
to redline I would suggest the 357 Magnum turbos. Keep in mind
that fuel
mods are in order if you want more than stock boost regardless of
which
turbo you choose to go with.
John Paul Dauber
91
VR-4
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
Your options and other info, including where to buy are on my
>
comprehensive turbo upgrade guide at the link below.
>
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm>
>
Do the work yourself and save $1000, which could be spent toward
>
15G-class turbos. Or just have your 9B turbos rebuilt.
>
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-tsg_v10.htm>
>
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:43:48
-0700
From: "John Paul Dauber" <
jpdauber@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Turbo replacement / repair
I have a set of the DR-500 turbos.
I think that most people will be
extremely pleased with them. They are more
than sufficient to produce
maximum power on pump gas. They can even be bumped
up to 20 psi that will
taper off to around 15 psi on race gas. These are the
perfect street turbo.
It makes no sense to go out and spend massive amounts
of money on turbos if
you aren't going to consistently turn the boost way up.
On the other
hand...if you plan on running the car hard and you want to hold
that 20 lbs
to redline I would suggest the 357 Magnum turbos. Keep in mind
that fuel
mods are in order if you want more than stock boost regardless of
which
turbo you choose to go with.
John Paul Dauber
91
VR-4
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
Your options and other info, including where to buy are on my
>
comprehensive turbo upgrade guide at the link below.
>
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm>
>
Do the work yourself and save $1000, which could be spent toward
>
15G-class turbos. Or just have your 9B turbos rebuilt.
>
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-tsg_v10.htm>
>
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:51:43
-0500
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <
stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tuning Apexi AFC
Hi Mark,
In your list of mods, I
didn't see at least 450cc injectors, and no
TMO logger, and for ragged edge
tuning, no EGT guage... So I suggest
you leave the AFC at default settings,
or risk blowing your engine
(detonating).
With proper tuning (going
for .91-.92 o2 volts, very conservative), I
pulled my car to a couple 12.7-8
1/4 mile times, from a 13.5 initial
run (no tuning). You MIGHT be able to
tune it a little bit, but you
will soon encounter fuel cut, or worse. You are
on the right track
though! Good luck.
Vinny Singh
http://www.kaizentuning.com/http://manualcd.dsm.org/ - DSM & 3/S
Service manuals on CDROM
>Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:37:24
-0400
>From: Mark Hindelang <
hindelan@pilot.msu.edu>
>Subject:
Team3S: Tuning Apexi AFC
>With the list of mods I have shown
below,
>does anyone have any tips to help guide me in the
>right
direction in tuning my AFC.. I thought
>i heard something about
tuning a few extra hp
>out of it due to having a bov, and higher
boost.
>At the moment, the AFC is completely in default mode.
Apexi
Indigo AVCR (@15psi)
Apexi Indigo AFC
K&N Filter
Magnecore
Wires
HKS Super Sequential Blow Off Valve
3" Metal Y-Pipe
RSR 2" spring
lowering application
Cusco Rear Strut Bar
Greddy Turbo Timer
Full ATR
Exhaust - ATR Downpipe, Stright Test Pipe (no cat) , Full Cat
back dual
tips.
Hose Techniques - Engine Bay Super White Hose Dress up
1 Bad Ass
Attitude
>Mark
>1992 Green Stealth
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:28:58
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Admin Reminder: No Photos, please...
Hey, gang,
We say in the
rules that photos are allowed ONLY if absolutely necessary.
That means "in an
EMERGENCY", and not simply to show a part on your car.
Our software allows
photos on the main list BUT it turns them into PAGES of
unreadable CODE for
our Archives and our 200+ Digest members. PLEASE, don't
add photos
unless it's "critical" to show something immediately! Just so
you know
what we're talking about, I'm adding how today's simple small photo
appeared
in our Digest, below my sig. It's just not fair to ask our
Digest
members to have to deal with it unless it's a VERY special
circumstance.
Please put your photo on a webpage - or - Contact an Admin
and we would be
HAPPY to put your photo up on the web so everyone can see
it. Usually
within an hour, if you contact Bob or Jeff...
Thanks
for understanding! ("photo" below)
Bob Forrest
for the
Admins
- ----------------------------------
--------------unreadable
code snipped--------------------
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:15:37
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Gauge Problems
Good evening!
>> I think Brian at Gt-pro said
the HKS 60mm gauges can be pushed into
>> the three openings in the
center dash that hold the stock gauges.
This is likely easier than
manufacturing a mounting bracket for 52mm gauges.
Here is how I went
about installing the 52mm gauges. The stock gauges are
all contained in
one assembly. I discarded this, but retained the lenses
(one piece) and
the plate that holds the lens to the stock gauge assembly.
Using a dremmel I
carefully removed the "half-moons" that cover up the
needle base from this
mounting plate. I then fabricated a mounting bracket
for the Autometer
gauges out of high-grade 3/8" plywood. After cutting this
to size, I
painted the front of it flat black and mounted the stock lens
assembly to the
front of it. I was able to install my new assembly into the
stock
installation points using the stock installation brackets.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius7/j7-2-combogauges.htmVery
nice job Jeff!
> There is no practical aftermarket replacement of
gauges
> individually (that is, keep the stock coolant temp and oil
pressure
> gauges but have an aftermarket boost
gauge).
>
True. I have seen one installation where the boost
gauge portion of the
three gauge assembly was drilled out and replaced with
an aftermarket boost
gauge thus retaining the factory oil preess/water temp
gauges. To my
surprise it was done by a local dealer at a customers
request.
> >
> Does anyone know
> if the stock senders
for the coolant temp and oil pressure can be
> used with aftermarket
gauges? Or will the aftermarket senders thread
> into the stock sender
locations (maybe with an adapter)?
>
The stock senders likely use
different output signals than the aftermarket
gauges. Also this would
obviously not work if you decide to use mechanical
gauges. The ECU does
not use oil pressure, so you can discard the stock
sender and mount your
aftermarket sender unit in this location. As for the
water temp probe,
under the coil pack there are two senders for water temp.
One is for relaying
information to the ECU and the other one is for the
stock gauge. But
there is also a third opening which is capped from the
factory. This
you can use for the water temp probe.
I choose American made gauges so I had
to get adapters to thread into the
metric threads of the car. Autometer
sells various adapters.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:27:09
-0700
From: "Jose Soriano" <
Amahoser@linkline.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 5 Point Harness
> Sabelt has a nice 5pt system..get the 3"
webbing as well with the H
> crossover.
> The quick-release
connectors make it 2x as easy to install.
> Call I/O port or visit thier
www site at
http://www.ioportracing.com/ I
purchased my TRW/Sabelt 5pt from Racer's Wholesale at
http://www.racerwholesale.comThey
are having a sale right now. $109 for the TRW/Sabelt camlock type
5-point
harness. You can't beat that price/quality for camlocks! Also, I'm
thinking
about purchasing a second helmet as they are having a closeout on
SA95 Bell
M2 and Mag 5's for $229! SA 95 should (hopefully) be good for a
few more
years.
Thought I'd give you guys a heads
up....
Hoser
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 06:16:48
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Gauge Problems
Thanks Oskar for the informative post. There
is one small difference
in 1st gen cars from your 2nd gen car; all three
coolant sensor
locations are used. They removed the coolant-dependant AC
switch
sensor on 2nd gen cars, leaving a convenient location for
your
aftermarket coolant temp sensor.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-coolanttemp.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
To: "Jeff Lucius"
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
<
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gauge
Problems
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:54:19
EDT
From:
ThorHolth@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Gauge Problems
Okay, Got all of the advice which was very helpful.
I'm going with
Automoeter Phantom series gauges. Two more
questions:
1. is the 2 1/6" the correct size for replacement
2. has
anyone used the #5775 air/fuel ration gauge by Autometer? If so, was
the
#2244 sensor kit needed, or could it use the stock O2
sensor?
Thor Holth (1991 R/T Turbo)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:45:07
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STOCK Hood!
Looks
real to me! Pics available at my site:
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GT/FrontStrutTowerBar/FrontStrutTowerBar.html
-
--Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Glacier White Pearl 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5MT) 78,000 mi
Magnacor KV85, M1
10W30, K&N FIPK, Skippy PCV Catch Can,
Tein HA Coilovers
(UPS broke 1st set !?!?! 2nd in transit)
SZ50EP 245/45/ZR17,
17x8.5J 1GTT wheels
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/home.html'94
Algae-Blue "fun to slide around corners" Corolla 75,000mi
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:55:27
-0700
From: "Bart Kurek" <
bart_kurek@eli.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STOCK Hood!
Is the
design year or model specific? Thanks.
- -Bart Kurek
Sales
Engineer
Electric Lightwave Inc. (ELIX)
http://www.eli.netmailto:bart_kurek@eli.net-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
To: <
stealth@starnet.net>; "Team3S List
(E-mail)" <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:45 AM
Subject: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For
3000GT/Stealth with STOCK Hood!
> Looks real to me! Pics
available at my site:
>
>
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GT/FrontStrutTowerBar/FrontStrutTowerBar.h>
tml
>
> --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:17:16
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STOCK H
ood!
> Looks real to me! Pics available at my site:
Looks pretty good to me. Does the intake plenum smack the bar
under hard
launch or deceleration or anything like that? I don't think
it would fit my
car with the HKS intercooler piping, but it looks like a good
option for a
car with normal intercooler pipes.
Cool.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 12:40:44
-0700
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STOCK
Hood!
It would seem to me that by stiffening the front end, it would tend
to increase understeer. Apart from the nice appearance, what good is a
front strut tower bar? I can see that stiffening both the front AND the rear
would be beneficial, but just the front? I don't
know...
Comments?
Dan J
San Jose Ca
94 Stealth
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:49:46
EDT
From:
TJHTAX@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Electronic Or Manuel Boost Control
What are the advantages and
disadvantages of the Electronic Boost controllers
over the Manuel
controllers? Many of the Speed shops recommend the Manuel
over the
electronic.
Thanks,
Tom Red 91 3000GT VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:50:17
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: RE: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STO CK
Hood!
> It would seem to me that by stiffening the front end, it
> would tend to increase understeer. Apart from the nice
>
appearance, what good is a front strut tower bar? I can see
> that
stiffening both the front AND the rear would be
> beneficial, but just
the front? I don't know...
I borrowed a bar for my Eclipse GSX for
autocrossing use and it did reduce
understeer in the front compared to not
having the bar. 3/S suspension
design is very similar in a lot of
respects, so I'd think similar results
wouldn't be out of the question.
On that car though, increasing the
diameter of the rear sway bar and using
urethane bushings everywhere on the
front suspension helped more than the
strut tower bar.
Someone supposedly gave Energy Suspension their car for
a day to measure the
bushings and hopefully produce them, but apparantly
parts never got
generated.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:30:35
-0700
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: RE: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STOCK
Hood!
The fact that the 3S and Eclipse/Talon are similar/same in chassis
characteristics still can't defy physics though. Regardless, on any car with
nuetral suspension, I believe adding a stiffening component in the front dials
in understeer. Conversely, adding a more rigid stress member in the rear would
introduce oversteer.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that
supplementing the existing suspension is neccessarily bad, I'm just
wondering what the immediate benefit would be to having a front strut tower
brace.
Dan Jett
San Jose, Ca
94 Stealth TT
Matt
Wrote:
>I borrowed a bar for my Eclipse GSX for autocrossing use and
it did reduce
>understeer in the front compared to not having the
bar. 3/S suspension
>design is very similar in a lot of respects, so
I'd think similar results
>wouldn't be out of the question. On that
car though, increasing the
>diameter of the rear sway bar and using
urethane bushings everywhere on the
>front suspension helped more than the
strut tower bar.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:25:51
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealth with STOCK
Hood!
Good start :)
What about :
- - carbon fiber bar
- -
adjustable ends
- - 3-point connection to the strut
How about the
cleareance of 1st gens ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:53:45
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: BMW M3 SMG II (OT but interesting tech)
Just had the chance to
drive the new M3 with SMG II automatic gearbox ....
and I'm damn
impressed.
The new BMW M3 (351hp) is now available with an automatik
gearbox from ...
Getrag ! But the trick is that the SMG (Sequential
M-Gearbox) uses a more or
less normal manual 6-speed gearbox that has a
bolted on sequential controll
system. This SMG II is hydraulic controlled (85
bars oil pressure in it) and
allows a gearshift within 80ms (0.08 seconds )
activated with two switches
behidn the wheel like on Formula 1
cars.
The SMG consists of 6 different programs the driver can choose when
he just
likes to drive a "normal" automatic car. But the cars response to the
right
foot is brilliant compared to any other automatics as it is a
manual
gearbox, autiomatically controlled. Simply said : the best out of
both
worlds.
But BMW even had more ideas ... a launch control system.
Yes, like a
traction control but imagien this : Switch off DSC (dynamic
control system),
switch Drivelogic (automatic) to super-sport (level 6), push
1 selection
handle on the steering wheel to the front and fully push down the
throttle.
The inline-six now sits at 3500rpm and is ready for launch. Now
just release
the handle and the M3 runs off with controlled limited slip of
the rear
wheels = optimal traction. BMW even more added a shift light into
the
cockpit to tell you to make a short draw on the "up" handle and within
80ms
second gear is in. In the other programs, the SMG would automatically
switch
into the higher gear but ... hey, we love to play ;-)
The
accelleration is great as you cannot feel much of a power drop after
shifting
if any. The engine just draws you forward and seems not wanting to
stop at
all. I'd never be able to beat such an equipped car with my A8 and
it's 300hp
automatic that can also be hand-switched nor with my Z28 or the
3000GT, that
just takes too long until second is in. From the outside, the
M3 cannot be
identified if equipped with SMG, so beware of 2001 M3 that will
come from
ermany ... the electronic is working perfectly and the mechanical
parts are
doing a great job. Price ? Here, the new M3 costs the same like
the 3000GT
did 4 years ago !!! Hmm, can I put the body of the 3s, AWD, AWS
onto the M3
chassis with engien and gearbox ???
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:50:20
-0400
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealthwith STOCK Hood!
The fact
is that front strut braces don't "stiffen" the suspension of the
car.
They merely keep geometry correct, so actually a front strut brace is
going
to reduce understeer because it is fighting the chassis flex that is
going to
let the front wheel camber go all to hell. Remember, more contact
patch
on the road equals more grip equals less understeer.
Scott
Holthausen
'94 VR4
- ---------
> The fact that the 3S and
Eclipse/Talon are similar/same in chassis
characteristics still can't defy
physics though. Regardless, on any car with
nuetral suspension, I believe
adding a stiffening component in the front
dials in understeer. Conversely,
adding a more rigid stress member in the
rear would introduce
oversteer.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 14:03:53
-0700
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/Stealthwith STOCK
Hood!
I disagree. Adding any structural support will stiffen the chassis;
the point you make about chassis flex being eliminated illustrates a stiffening
of the chassis. I can see your point about preventing load induced camber
changes, but the fact that you have more contact patch from your tire does not
neccessarily mean you are dialing out understeer. It is possible to have maximum
contact patch and still have under/oversteer. More grip does not equal less
understeer.
Dan J
94 Stealth TT
>>> "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com> - 5/3/01 1:50 PM
>>>
The fact is that front strut braces don't "stiffen" the
suspension of the
car. They merely keep geometry correct, so actually a
front strut brace is
going to reduce understeer because it is fighting the
chassis flex that is
going to let the front wheel camber go all to
hell. Remember, more contact
patch on the road equals more grip equals
less understeer.
Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4
-
---------
> The fact that the 3S and Eclipse/Talon are similar/same in
chassis
characteristics still can't defy physics though. Regardless, on any
car with
nuetral suspension, I believe adding a stiffening component in the
front
dials in understeer. Conversely, adding a more rigid stress member in
the
rear would introduce oversteer.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:14:00
-0400
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re: RE:
Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/StealthwithSTOCK Hood!
I stated
that the bar would not stiffen the suspension, but would stiffen
the
chassis... in this we are in agreement?
How could you possibly say that
increasing tire grip at the front wouldn't
reduce understeer?
Understeer is caused by a *lack* of front adhesion.
- -Scott
Holthausen
'94 VR4
- -------
> I disagree. Adding any structural
support will stiffen the chassis; the
point you make about chassis flex being
eliminated illustrates a stiffening
of the chassis. I can see your point
about preventing load induced camber
changes, but the fact that you have more
contact patch from your tire does
not neccessarily mean you are dialing out
understeer. It is possible to have
maximum contact patch and still have
under/oversteer. More grip does not
equal less understeer.
>
>
Dan J
> 94 Stealth TT
>
> >>> "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com> - 5/3/01 1:50 PM
>>>
> The fact is that front strut braces don't "stiffen" the
suspension of the
> car. They merely keep geometry correct, so
actually a front strut brace
is
> going to reduce understeer because it
is fighting the chassis flex that is
> going to let the front wheel camber
go all to hell. Remember, more
contact
> patch on the road equals
more grip equals less understeer.
>
> Scott Holthausen
> '94
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 14:32:56
-0700
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For 3000GT/StealthwithSTOCK Hood!
I
agree...I misunderstood the nomenclature. When I used the term suspension, I was
taking into account the chassis as well.
I am not saying that by
increasing the grip of the front tires will not decrease understeer. I am saying
that all things being neutral, and with maximum contact patch, you can dial in
understeer by adding a front strut tower bar. Do you disagree?
Your point
is valid about the lack of front adhesion of the tires, that was never in
dispute. Like I said, it is possible to have
maximum contact patch and still
have under/oversteer. More grip does not equal less understeer in THAT
situation. Perhaps I should have been more clear. ; )
A vehicle's
tendency to exhibit understeer, or oversteer, is not decided on the tires that
it wears when rolling off the factory floor. It is more a function of weight
distribution, chassis, and suspension. That was the point I was trying to get
across. Put tires that are 350mm across and you will still have one tendency or
another.
Peace,
Daniel J
94 Stealth TT
>>>
"Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com> -
5/3/01 2:14 PM >>>
I stated that the bar would not stiffen the
suspension, but would stiffen
the chassis... in this we are in
agreement?
How could you possibly say that increasing tire grip at the
front wouldn't
reduce understeer? Understeer is caused by a *lack* of
front adhesion.
- -Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4
- -------
> I
disagree. Adding any structural support will stiffen the chassis; the
point
you make about chassis flex being eliminated illustrates a stiffening
of the
chassis. I can see your point about preventing load induced camber
changes,
but the fact that you have more contact patch from your tire does
not
neccessarily mean you are dialing out understeer. It is possible to
have
maximum contact patch and still have under/oversteer. More grip does
not
equal less understeer.
>
> Dan J
> 94 Stealth
TT
>
> >>> "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com> - 5/3/01 1:50 PM
>>>
> The fact is that front strut braces don't "stiffen" the
suspension of the
> car. They merely keep geometry correct, so
actually a front strut brace
is
> going to reduce understeer because it
is fighting the chassis flex that is
> going to let the front wheel camber
go all to hell. Remember, more
contact
> patch on the road equals
more grip equals less understeer.
>
> Scott Holthausen
> '94
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:33:03
-0700
From: "stealthdevil" <
stealthdevil@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Front Power Steering Pump???
Hello,
My '92 Stealth keeps
making whining noises, and they get louder when the
revs increase. I'm
guessing that it is the power steering pump. Have any
of you guys
removed the front pump on your cars? If so, do you have any tips
or possibly
even a step by step? I have the shop manual, but I'm only 16 and
need all the
help I can get.
Thanks,
Gabe
'92 Stealth TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 3 May 2001 14:57:02
-0700
From:
kristie1@thesimpsons.comSubject:
Team3S: 93 stealth sohc computer
Does anybody have a 93 ecu for a sohc
stealth for sale. Mine is on the verge of going bad, and I want to replace it
soon.
Also, could someone help me out, I got swapped to the digest
version on accident..;)
Thanks
Kristie
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:03:44
-0400
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re: RE:
Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For3000GT/StealthwithSTOCK Hood!
> I am
not saying that by increasing the grip of the front tires will not
decrease
understeer. I am saying that all things being neutral, and with
maximum
contact patch, you can dial in understeer by adding a front strut
tower bar.
Do you disagree?
>
- ----
Yes. I'm going to have to
disagree with that. The addition of a front
strut bar will have *zero*
effect on spring rate, and *zero* effect on
overall roll stiffness in the
front. An increase in either one of those
would dial in understeer, but
reducing chassis flex at the front will not
dial in any additional
understeer, and could increase overall front
addhesion relative to rear
addheasion, thereby a reduction understeer.
- -Scott Holthausen
'94
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:47:29
-0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: cheap seatcovers
I am looking for a set, front and rear,
seatcovers so when I take my dog in
the car I don't damage the
seats.
I bought some at a local Pep Boys, but they fit
horribly.
Any ideas ?
Anthony Melillo
anthonymelillo@home.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:46:49
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: RE:
Team3S: Front Strut Tower Bar For3000GT/StealthwithSTOCK Hood!
>
-----Original Message-----
> > I am not saying that by increasing the
grip of the front tires will not
> decrease understeer. I am saying that
all things being neutral, and with
> maximum contact patch, you can dial
in understeer by adding a front strut
> tower bar. Do you
disagree?
> >
> ----
>
> Yes. I'm going to have
to disagree with that. The addition of a front
> strut bar will have
*zero* effect on spring rate, and *zero* effect on
> overall roll
stiffness in the front. An increase in either one of those
> would
dial in understeer, but reducing chassis flex at the front will not
> dial
in any additional understeer, and could increase overall front
> addhesion
relative to rear addheasion, thereby a reduction understeer.
>
>
-Scott Holthausen
> '94 VR4
Agreed. Chassis stiffening will
reduce the symptom or not affect it at all
depending upon how hard the
existing suspension is being over-worked by a
flexible chassis and geometry
changes. In general, stiffer is better in
this case. In an ideal
model the chassis is NOT part of the suspension.
Stiffening mechanisms help
closer achieve this ideal.
Barry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#483
*********************