team3s            Saturday, April 28 2001            Volume 01 : Number 478




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:40:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: SS lines..

Good Gawd..

Does -anyone- have a set of stock lines they dont need anymore?  Old dead
ones is fine.

I think I can get these for us for about $115-130 tops.

Im having them made for the new MR-S (Spyder) for $115.

If anyone has an old dead set, please lemme know.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Watkins, Jim wrote:

> The goodridge set from Stillen was about $200 in 1999
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:32 PM
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: SS lines..
>
> What is the approx. cost people are getting for SS brake line sets for
> 3S's?

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:37:03 GMT
From: aa2345@wayne.edu
Subject: Team3S: RE: 95 VR4 18" Chrome RIM

EVERYONE,

OK people.  I finally took some pictures of my rims.  You can see pictures of
them at:

http://cs.wayne.edu/~iraicu/personal/pictures/images/VR4tires/rims

new_rim.jpg --> the new rim that I ordered from Connicelli Mitsu
old_rim.jpg --> this is a pic of one of the 3 remaining original 18" Chrome
rims

After looking at about one dozen 95 VR4s and a few 96-99 VR4s I came to the
conclusion that all the 95+ cars have the "NEW RIM" the Mitsu dealership sent
me.  So, what rims do I have?  Does anyone recognize them?  I may have to rum
the part number through a Mitsu dealer.  Maybe California Emission cars (my
95 VR4) had different rims.

Let me know what you guys think.  I'll need to sell this NEW 18" rim, but 1st I
have to find the appropriate right side OLD rim.

- -MIKE-
95 Red VR4
3 Matching 18" Chrome Rims and 1 nonmatching 95-99 18" Chrome rim -->ARGH :(

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:09:10 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tuning car by injectors??

> What do you people think?  Is this going to be a safe and
> effective way to tune one of the 2 settings on my car.
> Will fuel delivery still be a problem?  I am trying to
> make sure my engine will not run lean at all.  When
> I see 100% IDC values, I do not know whether the engine
> is running lean or not.

Just by looking at injector duty cycle you aren't going to get the whole
story of what the engine is seeing at various loads.  The EGT gauge is going
to be more beneficial for figuring out how close to the edge you are.

As far as manipulating boost to keep the injectors happy, if you still have
stock turbos then the turbos themselves will run out of steam on their own
and reduce boost for you.  I didn't have any problems running lean on the
stock turbos at 15 psi max.  It was running rich all the way to redline.

How are you measuring IDC percentage?  Off the AVC-R?  I'm not sure I'd take
that value as "truth".  Some sort of datalogger would be a better bet.

What are your EGT's doing while it says you are at 100% IDC?  In general,
the ECU will go into fuel cut mode before you hit a "real" 100% IDC.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:41:57 -0600
From: Desert Fox <bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Team3S: Wow, thanks, pedals, brakes and crankcase filter!

I'm just constantly amazed at the wealth of information available on Mr.
Lucius' web site. Thanks Jeff!

I honestly don't know what I would do with my car if it weren't for you guys
(and gals if applicable), this list and the terrific support provided by
fellow VR-4 enthusiasts!

BTW, I ordered the Razo titanium pedal set, mostly based on looks alone!
(Like how often do we see our pedals - heel/toe or not!;-) My buddy thinks
I'm a nutcase, asking me "So how are these titanium pedals going to make
your car go faster?"

Steel-braded brake lines are next. I like the red on Jeff's brake page. Are
they all red or are some stainless steel color?

Has anyone installed a crankcase breather filter? Sounds like a good idea if
oil vapor from the crankcase vent system is being routed back into the
intake, decreasing octane... Ideas? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?...

- --
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi exit
formerly reasonable and prudent


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: We have SS lines..

...coming!

Cody has saraficed his OEM lines, and he will be shipping them to
Porterfield ASAP.

So..I need to understand how many people -want- some of these.  Im only
guessing at cost right now, but Im guessing $115-130 for a full 4-corner
set.  That guess is based on the fittings and line costs for them to
hand-produce a set for the MR-S (MR2), those lines are 9" long each and
use a standard set of fittings.

Id like to be able to have a group of people that want them..prepay the
approximate 50% on the $130. ($65) via paypal, and when they are ready,
ship the out at once.

This saves them a lot of time to make a number of sets at once..instead of
one today, two tomorrow...etc.

Comments?

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:07:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: We have SS lines..correction

Cody has a base SL.

There many be differences in these lines, and he is investigating.

So we may still need someone to pony up some other lines.

Otherwise it'll cost me a set of lines new from Mitsu, which I'll have to
build into the price..and that will depend how many I get into the
group-buy (50%) down on the initial order.

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:01:02 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: We have SS lines..correction

AFAIK, the VR4 (and presumably the SL with ABS) has 8 lines, at least
according to MVP, anyway.  So I'm guessing that the base models (no ABS)
have 4 lines??  If so, that'd make them a lot cheaper, right?  Anyway, if we
figure out something that'll work on my car, I'm probably in for a group
buy.  Wasn't next on my list o' stuff, but a good price can generally change
a purchase schedule :-)

- --Erik

- ------                                                        ----------
Erik Gross                    Intel Corporation              DP3-307(*W)
*870SLS-SNE/Random      Intel Architecture Group          371-2516(*W)
*erik.gross@intel.com                                (877)346-3801(*P)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 4:07 PM
> To: Geoff Mohler
> Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: We have SS lines..correction
>
> Cody has a base SL.
>
> There many be differences in these lines, and he is investigating.
>
> So we may still need someone to pony up some other lines.
>
> Otherwise it'll cost me a set of lines new from Mitsu, which
> I'll have to
> build into the price..and that will depend how many I get into the
> group-buy (50%) down on the initial order.
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
> California, USA
> http://www.speedtoys.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: We have SS lines..correction

Lets hold off and see whats up.

The 8-line stuff is usually just a connector halfway down the line.

Lots of racers go with a simpler single-length line.  But if OEM is two,
they will do it in two pieces.  But I dont think it makes up for the $70
difference in price.  But we will find out.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Gross, Erik wrote:

> AFAIK, the VR4 (and presumably the SL with ABS) has 8 lines, at least
> according to MVP, anyway.  So I'm guessing that the base models (no ABS)
> have 4 lines??  If so, that'd make them a lot cheaper, right?  Anyway, if we
> figure out something that'll work on my car, I'm probably in for a group
> buy.  Wasn't next on my list o' stuff, but a good price can generally change
> a purchase schedule :-)
>
> --Erik
>
> ------                                                        ----------
> Erik Gross                    Intel Corporation              DP3-307(*W)
> *870SLS-SNE/Random      Intel Architecture Group          371-2516(*W)
> *erik.gross@intel.com                                (877)346-3801(*P)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 4:07 PM
> > To: Geoff Mohler
> > Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: We have SS lines..correction
> >
> > Cody has a base SL.
> >
> > There many be differences in these lines, and he is investigating.
> >
> > So we may still need someone to pony up some other lines.
> >
> > Otherwise it'll cost me a set of lines new from Mitsu, which
> > I'll have to
> > build into the price..and that will depend how many I get into the
> > group-buy (50%) down on the initial order.
> > Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:57:40 -0700
From: Jack <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: SS lines..

I have a set for a 91 VR-4 that i can donate, and since SS lines were one
of the next things on my list, i'm in on the buy too. Somebody that has
CAPS could find out how many different versions there are, and relay that
info the the list, or whoever is taking the donations....

Wayne



At 04:07 PM 4/27/01 , Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Cody has a base SL.
>
>There many be differences in these lines, and he is investigating.
>
>So we may still need someone to pony up some other lines.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:41:34 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: SS lines..

Well - no differences in the CAPS program.  So - unless anyone can find any substantial info that there is a difference - mine are already boxed up (well - partially - I have to take the other 4 upper portions off the car tomorrow morning.)

Thanks all, and I will get them shipped to Porterfield tomorrow morning.

- -Cody

#-----Original Message-----
#From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
#[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jack
#Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:58 PM
#To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
#Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
#Subject: Team3S: Re: SS lines..
#
#
#I have a set for a 91 VR-4 that i can donate, and since SS lines were one
#of the next things on my list, i'm in on the buy too. Somebody that has
#CAPS could find out how many different versions there are, and relay that
#info the the list, or whoever is taking the donations....
#
#Wayne
#
#
#
#At 04:07 PM 4/27/01 , Geoff Mohler wrote:
#>Cody has a base SL.
#>
#>There many be differences in these lines, and he is investigating.
#>
#>So we may still need someone to pony up some other lines.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: SS lines..

That settles it.  Cody's lines will be the models for all of em.

Good work!

We'll see what the 8pc lines will cost compared to single..but we will do
2pc.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, cody wrote:

> Well - no differences in the CAPS program.  So - unless anyone can find any substantial info that there is a difference - mine are already boxed up (well - partially - I have to take the other 4 upper portions off the car tomorrow morning.)
>
> Thanks all, and I will get them shipped to Porterfield tomorrow morning.
>
> -Cody
>
> #-----Original Message-----
> #From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> #[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jack
> #Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:58 PM
> #To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> #Cc: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> #Subject: Team3S: Re: SS lines..
> #
> #
> #I have a set for a 91 VR-4 that i can donate, and since SS lines were one
> #of the next things on my list, i'm in on the buy too. Somebody that has
> #CAPS could find out how many different versions there are, and relay that
> #info the the list, or whoever is taking the donations....
> #
> #Wayne
> #
> #
> #
> #At 04:07 PM 4/27/01 , Geoff Mohler wrote:
> #>Cody has a base SL.
> #>
> #>There many be differences in these lines, and he is investigating.
> #>
> #>So we may still need someone to pony up some other lines.
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:58:54 -0700
From: Richard <radanc@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbos

Hi All,

I am now seriously considering the investment into upgraded turbos and
don't want to make this investment again. My question is a pole for
those of you that have installed the 357s with the TD04 housing and the
occasional mention of the unreliability of this turbo. Also anyone used
the 18G in the TD05 housing and have any comments here. I would like to
know from those who routinely run over 15 psi since I think this is the
important operating range I am interested in. Any help or information
would be appreciated.

Rich
92 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:01:45 -0400
From: "Dan Mecier" <dan@3sxperts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbos

Richard,

I have been using the GT-357 turbos since last summer with ZERO problems. I
routinely boost to 20+psi and they will hold that all the way to redline. I
haven't heard of anyone having reliability problems and we have sold a few
sets ourselves (3SX). I know of several 3S owners that are using these
turbos and love them. I can't personally comment on the 18G's as we haven't
sold any of those yet and I haven't talked to anyone that is using them.

Dan Mecier
3SX Automotive Technologies
www.3Sxperts.com
1994 3000GT VR-4


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 9:59 PM
Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Turbos


Hi All,

I am now seriously considering the investment into upgraded turbos and
don't want to make this investment again. My question is a pole for
those of you that have installed the 357s with the TD04 housing and the
occasional mention of the unreliability of this turbo. Also anyone used
the 18G in the TD05 housing and have any comments here. I would like to
know from those who routinely run over 15 psi since I think this is the
important operating range I am interested in. Any help or information
would be appreciated.

Rich
92 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:08:33 -0400
From: Mark Hindelang <hindelan@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbos

Richard wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am now seriously considering the investment into upgraded turbos and
> don't want to make this investment again. My question is a pole for
> those of you that have installed the 357s with the TD04 housing and the
> occasional mention of the unreliability of this turbo. Also anyone used
> the 18G in the TD05 housing and have any comments here. I would like to
> know from those who routinely run over 15 psi since I think this is the
> important operating range I am interested in. Any help or information
> would be appreciated.
>
> Rich
> 92 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:52:05 -0400
From: Mark Hindelang <hindelan@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbos

and with this question.. what psi is required to run in the 600 hp
range?


(sorry for the repost if it happened, something weirdo came across my
pop3)


Richard wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am now seriously considering the investment into upgraded turbos and
> don't want to make this investment again. My question is a pole for
> those of you that have installed the 357s with the TD04 housing and the
> occasional mention of the unreliability of this turbo. Also anyone used
> the 18G in the TD05 housing and have any comments here. I would like to
> know from those who routinely run over 15 psi since I think this is the
> important operating range I am interested in. Any help or information
> would be appreciated.
>
> Rich
> 92 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 23:43:38 -0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drive car w/o driveshaft?

Jeff Lucius wrote:

> A properly functioning VCU "locks" the
> front and center shafts together if their rotating speeds differ.
> Otherwise it is a passive device. Resistance (or opposing force on a
> shaft) is not required to make the VCU "operate".

Jeff, I believe you have a basic misconception on how the VCU operates.
It does not lock when shaft speeds are different, instead it trys to
match speeds by placing resistance on the faster spinning shaft (wheels
that are slipping) thus adding torque to the slower spinning shaft
(wheels with grip).  The higher the traction difference between the front
and rear wheels, the greater the speed differential will be, and the more
the VCU heats up as it tries to match speeds.  In extreme cases, if
relative slippage is excessive or over a long enough period of time, it
overheats and fails.  Imagine the VCU as more of a limited slip (posi) as
opposed to a spool or Detroit locker.

If you still have a VCU in your possession (I have three of them, one of
which is failed and I plan to give to you at the DSM shootout), rotate
the inner sleeve w.r.t. the outer sleeve.  It is difficult but can be
done.  Now according to you they somehow lock-up when they reach a
certain temperature?, not the case, the alternating plates try and limit
relative motion and thus send more torque to the slower rotating shaft
when relative motion exists.  Only a failed VCU will lock up (plates
inside weld together).  But usually, when a VCU fails it pukes out a
majority of the silicon gel and will easily slip.

Joe Gonsowski
'92 R/T TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:08:08 -0500
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Upper Midwest Gathering update

Hey everyone,

Its been a long time since I've sent out an update about the gathering.  The
Second Annual Upper Midwest Gathering will be happening May 18-20 in sunny
Wisconsin Dells, WI.  Wisconsin Dells is about half way between Minneapolis
and Chicago on I-94.

We have special discounts set up at a resort in the Dells and I've created
the tenative schedule for the weekend of activities.  The schedule is
located at:
http://www.mn3s.org/schedule.html

Its not too late to sign up for the mailing list, get your hotel reservation
and come join us for a weekend of fun.  The main gathering webpage is at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html

Last year's gathering was a blast, and this year's promises to be even
better.

Hope to see ya there,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 04:47:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drive car w/o driveshaft?

Hi Joe,

>> Jeff, I believe you have a basic misconception on how
>> the VCU operates.

I have no misconception as to how the VCU operates (at least I don't
think so). Please note that "locks" is in quotes in my earlier
message and on my web page.

http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-AWD3.htm

>> If you still have a VCU in your possession (I have three
>> of them, one of which is failed and I plan to give to you
>> at the DSM shootout), rotate the inner sleeve w.r.t. the
>> outer sleeve.  It is difficult but can be done.

When we operate the CD/VCU by hand we cannot generate enough shear
force (stress) in the fluid to cause it to heat and expand and so
there is no (noticeable) differential limiting action. I have already
done exactly as you suggested, plus every other combination of
motions I could think of. [Joe, now you aren't giving me that 25 lbs
of dead weight VCU at Norwalk to slow me down in the races are you?
:)]

We are saying the same thing. The VCU only "slips" when it has failed
or the differential forces are beyond its design parameters.
Otherwise, the VCU will attempt to limit the speed differential
between the inner and outer plates. This differential limiting action
is caused by the increase in viscosity of the silicone fluid as shear
stresses increase (because inner and outer plates are rotating at
different rates) and the *fluid* heats up (not really the VCU and all
its parts). Unlike many other fluids, motor oil for example, the
viscosity of silicone increases when it is heated rather than
decreases. Page 21-13 in the "DSM" Tech Manual (on Vinny's CD)
graphically illustrates some of this.

Of course the natural action of a differential will be to apply
torque to the path of least resistance. In our hypothetical case,
this is to the center output shaft (no transfer case attached). But a
properly functioning VCU will (should? try to?) limit the
differential action. Now perhaps (or likely?) this difference in
"resistance" (that is, none on center output shaft and 4000 lb of
"rolling weight" on the front output shaft) is just too great for the
design of our VCU (that is, not enough plate surface area, not enough
fluid capacity, and maybe not the proper plate spacing).

Unfortunately, my project list is still long for this season. Perhaps
next winter when I put the car up again, I'll remove my transfer case
and test my hypothesis (on stands with all wheels removed to start
with, then *maybe* a road test if that is successful). Maybe someone
on Team3S has already performed this experiment?

Please note, I think our AWD setup should be used only as it is
designed with all its properly functioning components (none
disconnected).

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Gonsowski" <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
To: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Cc: <Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drive car w/o driveshaft?

Jeff Lucius wrote:

> A properly functioning VCU "locks" the
> front and center shafts together if their rotating speeds differ.
> Otherwise it is a passive device. Resistance (or opposing force on
a
> shaft) is not required to make the VCU "operate".

Jeff, I believe you have a basic misconception on how the VCU
operates. It does not lock when shaft speeds are different, instead
it trys to match speeds by placing resistance on the faster spinning
shaft (wheels that are slipping) thus adding torque to the slower
spinning shaft (wheels with grip).  The higher the traction
difference between the front and rear wheels, the greater the speed
differential will be, and the more the VCU heats up as it tries to
match speeds.  In extreme cases, if relative slippage is excessive or
over a long enough period of time, it overheats and fails.  Imagine
the VCU as more of a limited slip (posi) as opposed to a spool or
Detroit locker.

If you still have a VCU in your possession (I have three of them, one
of which is failed and I plan to give to you at the DSM shootout),
rotate the inner sleeve w.r.t. the outer sleeve.  It is difficult but
can be done.  Now according to you they somehow lock-up when they
reach a certain temperature?, not the case, the alternating plates
try and limit relative motion and thus send more torque to the slower
rotating shaft when relative motion exists.  Only a failed VCU will
lock up (plates inside weld together).  But usually, when a VCU fails
it pukes out a majority of the silicon gel and will easily slip.

Joe Gonsowski
'92 R/T TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: 28 Apr 2001 07:28:32 -0700
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: Is milling flywheel OK?

After consulting this list I had my flywheel milled with eaqual amounts on the disk and the mounting legs.  I have not heard that there was a problem with bearing squeal. 

Has anyone on this list had sucess/failure doing this?

Email me privately and I will post a summary of th responses I get.

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com
1991 VR-4 (new 4-bolt shortblock due to arive soon!)

Original message below (clipped)

 Be aware that if your flywheel needs milling, that you are limited to only taking off a hair, I think it was 10 one-thousandths of an inch. There was a TSB on it somewhere which I have never been able to find. So make sure that if the flywheel goes to a machine shop that they know this, because it would be a real bummmer to have to tear everything apart to correct it after the fact. I have heard others here say that the symptoms of over-milling the flywheel are that your bearing squeals away like crazy.

Good luck, Dave


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: 28 Apr 2001 07:29:00 -0700
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: Is milling flywheel OK?

After consulting this list I had my flywheel milled with eaqual amounts on the disk and the mounting legs.  I have not heard that there was a problem with bearing squeal. 

Has anyone on this list had sucess/failure doing this?

Email me privately and I will post a summary of th responses I get.

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com
1991 VR-4 (new 4-bolt shortblock due to arive soon!)

Original message below (clipped)

 Be aware that if your flywheel needs milling, that you are limited to only taking off a hair, I think it was 10 one-thousandths of an inch. There was a TSB on it somewhere which I have never been able to find. So make sure that if the flywheel goes to a machine shop that they know this, because it would be a real bummmer to have to tear everything apart to correct it after the fact. I have heard others here say that the symptoms of over-milling the flywheel are that your bearing squeals away like crazy.

Good luck, Dave


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:27:19 -0600
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transaxle driveshaft seal

> Unless you are REALLY strong, you can't merely just yank it, you'll need
> some kind of mechanical leverage to get it out.  A small crowbar might
> also work.

I used a crowbar and popped it right out. I wanted to be sure
beforhand that there wasn't something in the tranny at the lip that
would be damaged by sticking a crowbar in to grab the seal. It came
out easily. I used a flat round piece of metal to cover the new seal while
I hammered it in.

The car is back together, I'm about to take a 80 mile trip so I guess I'll
know if the leak is fixed very soon :-)

thanks for the help,

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:38:10 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Is milling flywheel OK?

> I have heard others here say that the symptoms of
> over-milling the flywheel are that your bearing
> squeals away like crazy.

Which bearing squeals?  If the throwout bearing, I don't understand how
milling more than a couple hundredths can cause a bearing to squeal.  The
bearing doesn't generally "rest" on the pressure plate, only when pressing
in the clutch pedal.  As long as the flywheel is flat it shouldn't be a big
deal.  I could see it maybe squealing if the legs weren't cut down flat,
causing the pressure plate to sit at a slight angle - or if it isn't
disengaging off the pressure plate when at rest.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:41:33 -0500
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Team3S: clutch trouble not going away

Four months ago I started having trouble getting the VR-4 to shift
into gear from a standstill sometimes. The shifter linkage would not
move meaning I could push on the shift lever to put it into first,
reverse, etc and it wouldn't move. I figured it had something to do
with the clutch control because when it did it really bad one night I
could press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor with the car in
first gear, let off the brake, and the car would move forward. So the
clutch system is not disengaging the clutch.

I bled the clutch figuring it was air, it didn't help. I replaced the
slave cylinder, it didn't help. Last night I replaced the master
cylinder (what a pain), and the problem is still there. I inspected
the clutch line and it didn't look like it was leaking. It's like
when I get in the car in the morning the clutch control works fine,
there is sufficient clutch pressure, and I can shift easily. After I
drive the car a bit, the pedal feels less resistant, as if I'm losing
clutch pressure. I would say that it feels spongy, but I already bled
the clutch. Then it becomes difficult to shift the car into gears.

What should I start looking at now? This is getting to be a real
pain. Someone mentioned that the clutch booster rarely goes bad, but
could it be that? Could there be a leak in the vaccum booster line?
Maybe the clutch disc and pressure plate itself (i hope not, I really
don't feel like removing the transaxle again). The clutch itself
seems to works great (RPS Stage II), no slipping or chatter, etc.

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:43:24 -0500
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Team3S: clutch trouble not going away

Four months ago I started having trouble getting the VR-4 to shift
into gear from a standstill sometimes. The shifter linkage would not
move meaning I could push on the shift lever to put it into first,
reverse, etc and it wouldn't move. I figured it had something to do
with the clutch control because when it did it really bad one night I
could press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor with the car in
first gear, let off the brake, and the car would move forward. So the
clutch system is not disengaging the clutch.

I bled the clutch figuring it was air, it didn't help. I replaced the
slave cylinder, it didn't help. Last night I replaced the master
cylinder (what a pain), and the problem is still there. I inspected
the clutch line and it didn't look like it was leaking. It's like
when I get in the car in the morning the clutch control works fine,
there is sufficient clutch pressure, and I can shift easily. After I
drive the car a bit, the pedal feels less resistant, as if I'm losing
clutch pressure. I would say that it feels spongy, but I already bled
the clutch. Then it becomes difficult to shift the car into gears.

What should I start looking at now? This is getting to be a real
pain. Someone mentioned that the clutch booster rarely goes bad, but
could it be that? Could there be a leak in the vaccum booster line?
Maybe the clutch disc and pressure plate itself (i hope not, I really
don't feel like removing the transaxle again). The clutch itself
seems to works great (RPS Stage II), no slipping or chatter, etc.

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:43:28 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Thanks for this list

Every now and then I go back to the other 3000GT/Stealth lists, just to see
what's going on. I usuallly last about two months until I can't take it any
more, insult everyone on the list for bad grammar, piss-poor spelling, or
blue light topics, and leave.

I was thinking about taking a look again, until I somehow got copied on this:

>  Where did you get these cool neons lights at. Please let me know.

Need I say more?

Thanks, dudes, for keeping this list on topic.

Even more important: I truly appreciate that everyone on this list takes
the time to write in good English, with correct spelling and punctuation.
It shows respect for your fellow list members. It also makes the technical
topics we talk about more understandable. Some of the engine wizardry you
guys discuss would be completely baffling otherwise.

Can you imagine Roger or Matt discussing injector duty cycles WITHOUT using
good English? Sheesh. I can barely keep up with those guys as it is.

Sorry if this is off topic.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:54:09 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: clutch trouble not going away

> What should I start looking at now? This is getting
> to be a real pain. Someone mentioned that the
> clutch booster rarely goes bad, but could it be
> that?

If the clutch booster goes bad, I think it just makes it more difficult to
push the clutch in.  You should still get good clutch actuation though.
Have you gone through the service manual procedures on clutch pedal
adjustment.  Its very critical that those adjustments are correct, otherwise
you can get strange clutch problems.  If the adjustment rod is too "long",
meaning that it goes too far into the clutch cylinder, it can cause symptoms
like you are describing (good actuation for a while, then progressively
poorer actuation.

If you decide to take a look at the adjustments (and it should be the first
thing you look at with a clutch problem), set the clutch adjuster rod
"short" and work from there to the point where you get within the specs and
then lock it down with the locknut.

If you've already done all the adjustments, then I'm out of ideas.

Hope that helps!

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:53:50 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Thanks for this list

Damn! I misspelled "usually." Argh!
Rich

At 09:43 AM 4/28/01 -0500, Merritt wrote:
>Every now and then I go back to the other 3000GT/Stealth lists, just to see
>what's going on. I usuallly last about two months until I can't take it any
>more, insult everyone on the list for bad grammar, piss-poor spelling, or
>blue light topics, and leave.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:53:14 -0500
From: kalla@tripoint.org
Subject: RE: Team3S: clutch trouble not going away

> actuation though. Have you gone through the service manual procedures
> on clutch pedal adjustment.  Its very critical that those adjustments
> are correct, otherwise you can get strange clutch problems.  If the

I did that this morning. The manual states that the clutch
engagement point should be some amount off the floor, and in my
case, the engagement point was almost on the floor. I lengthened
the rod a little bit and the clutch disengages a little farther away
from the floor now. I drove the car for an hour and a half this
morning and had no trouble out of it. Guess I have to wait and see
if it comes back.

thanks for the help ..

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:53:40 -0500
From: kalla@tripoint.org
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transaxle driveshaft seal

> just wanted to tell ya. i think your clock date is wrong.. got your
> email and it shot it right up to january 2001 location. :)

I think my mail program had a hiccup and it dragged out an old
message and mailed it. really bizzare. ignore it :-)


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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:23:25 +0200
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: clutch replacement parts

Thanks very much for your input.  I asked www.mitsupartsdirect.com to revise
my order to include the following parts, and will have the flywheel
inspected/machined/replaced during installation.

transmission seal kit
rear main seal (if it's not part of the trans seal kit)
clutch slave cylinder
MR111650 Disc $65.29
MD742801 Cover $100.91
MB837549 Bearing $31.56


- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads, braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: [Admin] News that affects the list..and SS lines

First off..

Cody has his lines on the way, and I expect to have an answer from
Porterfield about the end of next week.  What I have that affects that is
that I will be co-driving a the `Rim Of The World' National Rally next
weekend (4th and 5th) and wont be in touch with Porterfield until Monday.
Also..the car I will be co-driving -is- the Blue VW Bug youve all seen on
TV..you know "Niiice caaar!".  Well..it is, buddy of mine in Tulsa owns
it and has the VW sponsorship.  Its pretty cool.

Second..

The T1 just got installed today at the house.  The list will be moving
over to a new IP address, and I belive that my plans will cause that to be
transparent to everybody concerned.  For a time the list will resolve to
both IPs (a day) then go down to the single new one.

Email will just spit outta here 10x faster than it used to, and team3s.com
will scream as well.

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com


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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 14:56:42 -0400
From: "Joshua Prince" <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: Team3S: HKS EVC IV boost controller question

I setup the boost controller to what I believe are all the correct settings
but this is the funny part:
Gear 1: About .85 boost
Gear 2. .87-.89
Gear 3. .92-.95
Gear 4 1.00
Gear 5 1.00
Gear 6 1.00

Is it correctly setup or did I do something wrong?  I thought it should hit
closer to 1.00 every gear not gradually escalate every gear.  Thanks for any
assistance.


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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:31:40 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Driven to be Awful

Just saw the Sylvester Stallone movie Driven.

Yuk!

It's Days of Thunder with modern computer graphics.

I cannot believe this is the same guy who wrote Rocky, because the dialogue
is so phony it sounds like a daytime Soap Opera. Oops. Sorry about that.
Daytime soaps have better dialogue than this turkey.

Whoever the CART technical advisor was ought to be taken out and shot. Just
one example: We have this stupid, unbelievable crash scene, reminiscent of
Le Mans when the Mercedes launched and went off into the trees. I don't
want to ruin the plot, but the two leading drivers stop, TURN AROUND ON THE
TRACK, and go back to help, because there are no corner workers within 87
miles of the crash site (even though it happened within 100 ft of a
grandstand). When they get there, everything is on fire. Of course, true
racers know that methanol does not burn with a flame, but that's a minor
detail. If I were a CART corner worker, I would be incensed. Those workers
get there before the car stops rolling most of the time. Here, they were
portrayed as being fat, lazy and slow.

We also have cars and wheels being launched straight up 100 ft into the air
everytime they crash. Give me a break.

The computer graphics are so phony they stand out. It was obvious whenever
they were faking stuff with animation. Simlulation is not supposed to be so
noticeable. Besides, I've seen better animation on a computer game,
especially when they passed six cars in one corner at Belle Isle. It looks
like they just stole a screen from a computer game on that one.

The scene where they drive the race cars on the streets of Chicago is
absolutely outrageous. How did they start the cars in the first place? Ya
need two computers and a pit crew to start Indy cars.

This entire movie is a piece of crap with a teeny bit of race footage that
looks genuine.

No wonder they didn't allow anyone to review this movie before it came out.
It STINKS!!!

What is truly a shame is that they had fantastic race footage and COULD
have done a very good movie if Stallone knew anything at all about racing.
The overall premise was OK. They got some stuff right, but way too much
stuff wrong.

Roger Ebert gave it 2.5 stars, but he doesn't know anything about racing.
I give it no stars. Can I give it a minus star rating?

On top of all that, the music sucks, and it was wall to wall and very loud.
Is this the kind of crap that kids listen to today? Blecch..

OK, I know it was a fantasy, and I should suspend my outrage and try to get
into the spirit of the thing. Abalone, as they say in the fish business. If
they are trying to pass this piece of crap off as a racing movie, they
should have kept it at least a tiny bit believable. It wasn't.

Don't waste your money.

Rich/94 VR4

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End of team3s V1 #478
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