team3s
Thursday, April 26
2001 Volume 01
: Number
476
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:56:33 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
> Engine braking can be dangerous if the
person
>behind you is close and not paying attention. Then be ready
to answer why
>your brake lights don't work when in fact you were using
the gears to slow
>you down.
>
The LAST thing you want to do is
use the engine to brake the car. It's one
thing to coast down to 100 mph in
4th to save brakes in a stock-caliper
car, and quite another to downshift to
3rd at 110mph so the engine will
slow you.
Remember that brake pads
and rotors are much less expensive than a clutch,
transmission and motor.
Also, brakes are designed to stop the car, whilst
the clutch, transmisison
and motor are designed to go fast, not act as brakes.
In the olden days,
before synchos, blipping was necessary to match engine
speed with
transmission speed so the gears would mesh properly. In today's
Trans-Am
cars, with their straight-cut gears, blipping is necessary on
downshifts. But
none of this is needed in a modern car with synchros.
The only reason to
blip the throttle is to match engine speed with car
speed so you don't get a
lurch when you release the clutch. You can
accomplish the same thing by
judiciously releasing the clutch at the right
time, and being in the proper
gear. Besides, if you are hammering the
brakes to where they are bouncing off
the ABS, it doesn't matter how hard
you drop the clutch, because that little
lurch will have no effect. This is
true, of course, only with AWD cars - try
it in a 911 or Vette, and you
might lock the rears and go around.
With
our cars, there is no need to heel-and-toe.
Haven't we had this discussion
before?
Rich/old poop/94 VR4.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:03:47
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: 2 Busch/NASCAR tix available for 05/26-05/27
If you are
interested in 2 tickets to the Busch Auto Parts 300 on 05/26 and
the Winston
Cup Coca-Cola 600 on 05/27 in Concord, NC at Lowe's Motor
Speedway then
please respond offline as soon as possible.
Two tickets to both
races.
Accommodations are not included.
$125 per ticket.
http://www.nascar.com/TRACKS/lowes/-
--Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race
seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:08:24
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
My point was that on the street you have to
realize that mothers driving
minivans are not always looking out for how much
faster/slower you are going
but on the track they are (not that minivans race
but you get the idea). I
didn't have time to do anything other than
throttle and brake since there
were so many other inputs coming in at
once.
I am still learning what our AWD cars can do and without an AWD
instructor
in my car I had to do some things different I'm sure.
Instead of hitting
the Keyhole at 60 mph I was hitting it at 40 mph because
of traffic so this
let me relax enough to try my hand at heel-and-toe and
things like that.
Yes, Rich, we have had this conversation before.
Remember that some people
may be new to the list.
- --Flash!
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Merritt
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 4:57
PM
To: Schilberg, Darren; 'Gross, Erik'; Team3S List (E-mail)
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
> Engine braking can be dangerous if the
person
>behind you is close and not paying attention. Then be ready
to answer why
>your brake lights don't work when in fact you were using
the gears to slow
>you down.
>
The LAST thing you want to do is
use the engine to brake the car. It's one
thing to coast down to 100 mph in
4th to save brakes in a stock-caliper
car, and quite another to downshift to
3rd at 110mph so the engine will
slow you.
With our cars, there is no
need to heel-and-toe.
Haven't we had this discussion
before?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:06:11
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
> Engine braking can be dangerous if the
person
> behind you is close and not paying attention. Then be ready
> to answer why your brake lights don't work when in fact you
>
were using the gears to slow you down.
Yeah, I agree - what I'm talking
about, however, is engine braking *while*
braking with your foot on the
pedal. Thus your lights would be on.
> The LAST thing you want
to do is use the engine to brake the
> car. It's one thing to coast down
to 100 mph in 4th to
> save brakes in a stock-caliper car, and quite
another to
> downshift to 3rd at 110mph so the engine will slow you.
Yeah, that's a little extreme, I agree. However, for example, I'm
thinking
more of the following scenario (mine's a NA with 3rd @redline at
100MPH and
2nd @70mph): >100 in 4th down the straight with a
50-55mph curve the end,
then toward the end of the straight, nail the brakes,
when it hits 80-85 or
so, heel-toe shift to 3rd to get better engine braking
(while still on the
binders), then let up on the brakes as you turn in, hit
the apex, and slowly
increase throttle in 3rd as you come out of the
turn. That results in
either faster braking in the 85mph range(faster
lap times, all else equal)
or will maintain the same braking force with less
force on the pads/rotors
(brake management). Or am I hittin' the crack
a little too much these days?
> Remember that brake pads and
rotors are much less expensive
> than a clutch, transmission and motor.
But if your brakes fade on you, they don't stop you so good:-)
Maybe one
day I'll have Big Reds, but for now, I've got stock 2-piston
calipers up
front and singles in the rear. I'll take braking wherever I
can get it...
> In the olden days, before synchos, blipping was
necessary to
> match engine speed with transmission speed
...
> But none of this is needed in a modern car with
synchros.
Needed, I agree, no. But useful in reducing synchro wear,
sure (if you're
double-clutching and not just rev matching).
>
Besides, if you are hammering the brakes to where they
> are bouncing off
the ABS, it doesn't matter how hard
> you drop the clutch, because
that little lurch will have no
> effect.
But for those of us
without ABS/AWD, that lurch could mean gravel pit or
wall. Maybe one
day I'll have a VR-4, but for now, it's either a base model
and a small
race/suspension budget or a VR-4 with no money left to play. I
want to
play:-)
> This is true, of course, only with AWD cars - try it in
a
> 911 or Vette, and you might lock the rears and go around.
Yeah,
exactly. I'm not sure what would happen with a FWD car, but I'm sure
it
wouldn't be pretty.
> Haven't we had this discussion
before?
Quite possibly, but all I did was ask if anyone had any thoughts
about
pedals or pads that make heel-toe shifting easier :-) But, for
all who've
been through this before, thanks for putting up with the newbies
as we learn
the ropes. BTW, Rich, I'll probably be making some brake
cooling ducts like
yours soon - and I think I should be able to use my
[empty] intercooler
ports to make a pretty big funnel to force air to the
brakes. Regardless,
I'll be taking an extra set of pads to the track
the first time I go
(hopefully next month, if I ever get my stinkin'
suspension).
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Glacier White Pearl 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5MT) 78,000 mi
Magnacor KV85, M1
10W30, K&N FIPK, Skippy PCV Catch Can,
Tein HA Coilovers
(UPS broke 1st set !?!?! 2nd in transit)
SZ50EP 245/45/ZR17,
17x8.5J 1GTT wheels
http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/home.html'94
Algae-Blue "fun to slide around corners" Corolla 75,000mi
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:20:42
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
>> Remember that brake pads and
rotors are much less expensive
>> than a clutch, transmission and
motor.
>
>But if your brakes fade on you, they don't stop you so
good:-) Maybe one
>day I'll have Big Reds, but for now, I've got
stock 2-piston calipers up
>front and singles in the rear. I'll take
braking wherever I can get it...
>
Problem is, if you are not using
your brakes to the maximum, you will heat
them up even more. The secret to
effective braking and making the pads last
the longest is to use them as hard
as possible for the shortest amount of
time.Get on, get off. If you are
on the brakes hard, engine braking will
have no effect other than to stress
your driveline. If the engine does help
with braking, then you are not using
your brakes hard enough, and they will
heat up on you.
Remember, the
worst possible way to use your brakes is the way we drive
around down with a
passenger aboard. We slow down gradually, increasing
brake pressure slowly so
as not to upset the car or the passenger. Do this
on a track, and you will
fry your brakes in two laps.
If you are experiencing brake fade, I
suggest these solutions:
1. Coast down to 100 (or less) before applying the
brakes. The faster you
go, the harder it is to stop.
2. Change/bleed your
brake fluid. Use Ford High Performance ($3 a pint) and
change it often.
3.
Run race pads on the track.
4. Run air ducts to the rotors (I see you are
planning to do this)
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:44:32
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Brake management WAS: Heel-Toe Shifting
> Problem is, if
you are not using your brakes to the maximum,
> you will heat them up
even more. The secret to effective braking
> and making the pads last the
longest is to use them as hard as
> possible for the shortest amount of
time.Get on, get off.
Cool - didn't know that - thanks! Does that
apply to street pads as well,
or just race pads? I'm guessing that
brake fade will be an issue for me on
the track since I have smaller brakes
and am only 400-500 lbs lighter than a
VR-4. I know one good nailing
from 100-60 and I start feeling it a little.
> If you are experiencing
brake fade, I suggest these solutions:
> 1. Coast down to 100 (or less)
before applying the brakes.
Yeah, for sure:) And while I'm seeing
how my brakes last, I may try to keep
the speed not too much over 100 and
wave people around...
> 2. Change/bleed your brake fluid. Use Ford
High Performance
> ($3 a pint) and change it often.
Cool - plan to
do that. Do you use speed bleeders or how do you do it (I
assume you
have an easy way). If you use speed bleeders, where'd you
get
them?
> 3. Run race pads on the track.
Probably not the
first time (am I playing with fire?) due to cost issues.
I've already got a
spare set of stock pads.
> 4. Run air ducts to the rotors (I see you
are planning to do this)
Yep, dryer tubing, here I come!
-
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:53:44
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
cruise control
I'm in need af a cruise control switch --- the one on the
steering
wheel ---- bottom dollar will be paid, attaboys will be awarded
for
rapid response.
Please responde
privately.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:07:16
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: cruise control
I got one.
What ya gimme for
it?
On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Jim Berry wrote:
> I'm in need af a
cruise control switch --- the one on the steering
> wheel ---- bottom
dollar will be paid, attaboys will be awarded for
> rapid
response.
>
> Please responde privately.
>
> Jim Berry
-
---
Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedtoys.com>
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:07:32
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: cruise control
..."gimme" meant in the kindest manner.
*grin*
On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Jim Berry wrote:
> I'm in need af a
cruise control switch --- the one on the steering
> wheel ---- bottom
dollar will be paid, attaboys will be awarded for
> rapid
response.
>
> Please responde privately.
>
> Jim Berry
-
---
Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedtoys.com>
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:06:02
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake management WAS: Heel-Toe Shifting
>Cool -
didn't know that - thanks! Does that apply to street pads as
well,
>or just race pads?
It applies to all
pads.
>Cool - plan to do that. Do you use speed
bleeders or how do you do it (I
>assume you have an easy way). If
you use speed bleeders, where'd you get
>them?
I don't have a
helper, so I go to my brake shop and let the pros do it.
>
>> 3.
Run race pads on the track.
>
>Probably not the first time (am I
playing with fire?) due to cost issues.
>I've already got a spare set of
stock pads.
You will EAT stock pads. Get race pads. Or maybe a compromise
pad, like a R4S.
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:03:19
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
Hi all,
I'm going to save Merritt's
original post for about
one year and send it to him when he asks how he
can
cut seconds off of his lap time and be smoother in
the
curves.
John, size 13
[snip]
- --- Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
wrote:
>
> With our cars, there is no need to heel-and-toe.
>
Haven't we had this discussion before?
>
> Rich/old poop/94
VR4.
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:33:25
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
> I'm going to save Merritt's original
post for about
> one year and send it to him when he asks how he
can
> cut seconds off of his lap time and be smoother in the
>
curves.
- ---
John:
Easy, he can shift right..and let me
drive.
Ahhhhhhh!!!! :^)
- ---
Geoff Mohler
<
gemohler@speedtoys.com>
California, USA
http://www.speedtoys.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:08:13
+0100
From: Gordon Tyrrell <
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Not specifically 3000GT
Sorry this isn't about the 3000 but I was
wondering if someone could
tell me if it is easy to fit a boost gauge to a
car that doesn't have
one fitted normally (twin turbo RX7)?
I'm
considering taking the car off his hands as he just bought a Honda
S2000 and
needs rid of the RX7.
I would want the gauge fitted so I could keep an
eye on things on the
turbo front.
Any help appreciated as
usual.
Gordon
Dublin, Ireland
1993 Dark Metallic Grey VR4 (japanese
import)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:25:12
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake management
On Wednesday, April 25, 2001 6:06 PM, Erik
Gross wrote:
>> Engine braking can be dangerous if the
person
>> behind you is close and not paying attention. Then be
ready
>> to answer why your brake lights don't work when in fact you
>> were using the gears to slow you down.
> Yeah, I agree -
what I'm talking about, however, is engine braking *while*
> braking with
your foot on the pedal. Thus your lights would be on.
Erik (thanks for changing the subject too) - let me tell you how I found
out
why I should not downshift while braking like you say (or try it
yourself
once and you'll see that gravel pit get REAL close to you).
Anyway, I was
coming into Turn 14 at Mid-Ohio which is a carousel turn to
the right (long
sweeping turn). The turn before is taken at about 80 mph if
I can hit
it correctly in 3rd so I have some good torque coming into the
turn.
Because I need to launch out of the turn onto the front stretch I
need to go
through the turn in 2nd (actually this was usually because I had
traffic to
contend with). I had two ways of doing this (1) downshift before
the
turn or (2) downshift after the turn.
I know I can't downshift
IN the turn as I am supposed to be braking,
turning, and accelerating and
that leaves no foot left for the clutch. One
time I went down to 2nd
but I was still at 60 mph. Nearly redline in the
VR-4. TOO much
torque. So I decided to take it in 3rd. Turbos don't stay
spooled
up at 60 mph in 3rd quite like I want them to (stock turbos). What
is
left to do? Yep, downshift while braking.
The next time
around I am doing some heel-and-toe and braking, revving,
downshifting to
second while still braking, letting out the clutch while
still braking, then
starting to turn into the turn. Fellahs listen up - at
the point when I
was letting out the clutch to grab second gear (I was
smooth with it) I could
just tell that I was giving steering input but the
amount of torque going to
the wheels wanted to upset the car. I do NOT
recommend doing
this. I ended up braking hard and downshifting and letting
out the
clutch and THEN turning into the corner. A little slower times
getting
TO the apex but 5 mph faster at the end of the next stretch.
> But
for those of us without ABS/AWD, that lurch could mean gravel pit or
>
wall. Maybe one day I'll have a VR-4, but for now, it's either a
base
model
> and a small race/suspension budget or a VR-4 with no money
left to play.
I
> want to play:-)
If you aren't locking up
wheels when you brake then you aren't pushing them
hard enough yet.
Once you get wheel lock then you will know the limit of
the car. Just
do this on a long straight stretch up in WA so you have some
error
room.
>> This is true, of course, only with AWD cars - try it
in a
>> 911 or Vette, and you might lock the rears and go
around.
> Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure what would happen with a
FWD car, but I'm
sure
> it wouldn't be pretty.
At one of the
twisty bits on Mid-Ohio (Turn 8) you go up and crest the hill
then back down
all the while turning to the left. One time I was in third
and kept
throttling all the way over the crest. Next time I was going to
fast so
I hit the brakes right at or near the crest. I knew the car would
hold
as I've done these before. The instructor said that if I were in
any
Porsche or RWD car I would have done at least two full spins. He
said the
VR-4 is very forgiving and very good for track use. I
personally think I
scared him a little. I found the best way was to
keep constant throttle or
braking up and over the crest and don't do anything
fancy.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race
seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:32:24
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake management WAS: Heel-Toe
Shifting
Erik,
>> Problem is, if you are not using your
brakes to the maximum,
>> you will heat them up even more. The secret
to effective braking
>> and making the pads last the longest is to use
them as hard as
>> possible for the shortest amount of time.Get on, get
off.
> Cool - didn't know that - thanks! Does that apply to
street pads as well,
> or just race pads? I'm guessing that brake
fade will be an issue for me
on
> the track since I have smaller brakes
and am only 400-500 lbs lighter than
a
> VR-4. I know one good
nailing from 100-60 and I start feeling it a
little.
Just get some
Porterfield R4-S pads from Mohler and you'll see the
difference right
away. You can ask the list how hot they got if you see
them turn white,
fall apart, turn to dust, etc.
>> If you are experiencing brake
fade, I suggest these solutions:
>> 1. Coast down to 100 (or less)
before applying the brakes.
> Yeah, for sure:) And while I'm
seeing how my brakes last, I may try to
keep
> the speed not too much
over 100 and wave people around...
Once you get your suspension you will
be able to wave them around and the
catch up to them on the twisty bits
perhaps.
>> 2. Change/bleed your brake fluid. Use Ford High
Performance
>> ($3 a pint) and change it often.
> Cool -
plan to do that. Do you use speed bleeders or how do you do it (I
>
assume you have an easy way). If you use speed bleeders, where'd you
get
> them?
I have Speed Bleeders for the Big Reds up front (so
I'll have different part
numbers than you). Go to Lucius' page and
under the brake mods he has the
link to Speed Bleeders. Read their page
and their catalog is correct.
There is not really one for the second gen
stock rear calipers ... and if
anyone needs a 10mm Speed Bleeder then I have
two of them I can't use. Any
takers? But they do have them for
the stock front calipers. Then make a
brake bleeding kit (mine is a
John Christian hand-made specialty from a
small coffee can, glass jelly jar,
and some surgical tubing).
>> 3. Run race pads on the
track.
> Probably not the first time (am I playing with fire?) due to
cost issues.
> I've already got a spare set of stock
pads.
Porterfield pads aren't too much more than stock pads cost anyway
and they
are loads safer.
>> 4. Run air ducts to the rotors
(I see you are planning to do this)
> Yep, dryer tubing, here I
come!
Merritt has 2.5" size tube and I am trying to fit a 3" tube but it
appears
too big. Buy some sample pieces first. Make sure when
your wheel is turned
all the way to the inside that it will not hit the
tube. Not much help here
... just gotta crawl under there and figure it
out. Buy a pack of 10" zip
ties from a store as these will be plenty
long enough to tie onto suspension
bits and things.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race
seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:06:55
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
We may have had this discussion, but
haven't reached consensus. Anything
that unsettles the car when
entering a turn is bad, like an abrupt shift.
Blipping the trottle ensures a
smooth downshift just prior to entry, and
MUST be easier on the engine and
drive train that just relying on the
snchros. After all, we could shift
without the clutch at all if that was a
good thing.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent:
Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:57 PM
> To: Schilberg, Darren; 'Gross, Erik';
Team3S List (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
>
>
> > Engine braking can be dangerous if the person
>
>behind you is close and not paying attention. Then be ready to
answer
> why
> >your brake lights don't work when in fact you
were using the gears to
> slow
> >you down.
> >
>
The LAST thing you want to do is use the engine to brake the car. It's
one
> thing to coast down to 100 mph in 4th to save brakes in a
stock-caliper
> car, and quite another to downshift to 3rd at 110mph so
the engine will
> slow you.
>
> Remember that brake pads and
rotors are much less expensive than a clutch,
> transmission and motor.
Also, brakes are designed to stop the car, whilst
> the clutch,
transmisison and motor are designed to go fast, not act as
>
brakes.
>
> In the olden days, before synchos, blipping was
necessary to match engine
> speed with transmission speed so the gears
would mesh properly. In today's
> Trans-Am cars, with their straight-cut
gears, blipping is necessary on
> downshifts. But none of this is needed
in a modern car with synchros.
>
> The only reason to blip the
throttle is to match engine speed with car
> speed so you don't get a
lurch when you release the clutch. You can
> accomplish the same thing by
judiciously releasing the clutch at the right
> time, and being in the
proper gear. Besides, if you are hammering the
> brakes to where they are
bouncing off the ABS, it doesn't matter how hard
> you drop the clutch,
because that little lurch will have no effect. This
> is
> true, of
course, only with AWD cars - try it in a 911 or Vette, and you
> might
lock the rears and go around.
>
> With our cars, there is no need
to heel-and-toe.
> Haven't we had this discussion before?
>
>
Rich/old poop/94 VR4.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:17:27
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
This sounds like a challenge.
Too bad
you are so far away in La La land.
Rich
At 01:33 AM 4/26/01 -0700,
Geoff Mohler wrote:
>> I'm going to save Merritt's original post for
about
>> one year and send it to him when he asks how he
can
>> cut seconds off of his lap time and be smoother in
the
>> curves.
>---
>
>John:
>
>Easy, he
can shift right..and let me
drive.
>
>
>Ahhhhhhh!!!!
:^)
>
>---
>Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedtoys.com>
>California,
USA
>http://www.speedtoys.com
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:16:08
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Heel-Toe Shifting
>I've ALWAYS had brake
>fade
issues with the car. If I run a tight twisty course with hard braking
>and
use threshold maxium braking, I would lose brakes from fluid boling
over
>after 8 laps. I've learned to be conservative with my brakes. I
brake early
>and light and only threshold brake when defending my
position. With this
>technique, my brakes generally last an entire
session.
You are an experienced racer, so you know much more about this
than I do,
but it seems to me that by braking "light and early," you are
essentially
doing my slow-down-from-100 mph technique. I'll bet your lap
times are off
by a second or two when you do this, too. Which also fits with
my warning
that the faster you go, the harder it is to slow down.
Besides, my get on-get off technique is designed to save the pads.
Boiling
fluid is a totally different issue. With the 3000GTs, the problem is
that
excessive heat causes the pads to wear much faster. I am sure that the
two
problems are related. Maybe you should run water injection to the
caliper,
like the TransAm cars do, to help the fluid boiling problem.
\
Finally, I don't make this stuff up. The get-on get-off technique
was
taught to me by several driving instructors.
Rich
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:59:23
-0400
From: "Michael Bulaon" <
profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Need timing belt install help!!!
Ok, here's my problem. When I
decided to do the 60k service myself, I also
decided that I'd get the valve
stem seals and valve guides replaced. So I
pulled the head off and sent it to
the machine shop.
Keep in mind that when I took off the timing belt, I
just made sure the cam
sprockets and crankshaft was in the correct timing
positions before
loosening the belt and removing it. I didn't make any
markings on the belt
being that I would be replacing it.
So now the
head is done and bolted back on the block. Here's where I am
stuck. I
am trying to get the camshaft sprockets in the correct position in
order to
install the timing belt.
Referring to page 11-28 of the Service manual it
says:
"Make sure the timing marks on the camshaft sprockets for intake
and exhaust
valves are not are not within the range A in the illustration at
left. If
the timing mark is withing rang A, turn the camshaft sprocket to
move the
timing mark to the area closest to range A."
Looking at the
diagram I cannot figure out where exactly range A is.
Anyone who's done
this before, your input is greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Michael
Bulaon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:05:59
-0400
From: "Michael Bulaon" <
profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Lash Adjuster Question??
While my camshafts were off, I opted to
replace the lash adjuster with the
revised ones on my 95 VR-4. After
installing the lash adjusters and then
the camshafts, I noticed I was able to
push down on all the lash adjusters
on the intake side, however all the lash
adjusters on the exhaust side could
not be moved.
Is this ok, or is
something wrong with brand new lash adjusters I just put
in. According to the
manual not being able to move them is a normal
condition and that if I can
move them, they are in need of replacement.
Regards,
Michael
Bulaon
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:39:19
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake management
" I ended up braking hard and
downshifting and letting
> out the clutch and THEN turning into the
corner. A little slower times
> getting TO the apex but 5 mph faster
at the end of the next stretch. "
>
This is exactly what you want to
do.
" If you aren't locking up wheels when you brake then you
aren't
pushing them
> hard enough yet. Once you get wheel lock
then you will know the limit of
> the car. Just do this on a long
straight stretch up in WA so you have
> some
> error room."
>
This is not necessarily correct. I am completely satisfied
with
having the ABS kick in only before selected turns, not every turn on
the
track. "locking up the wheels" is not all it's cracked up to be -
that's
why the ABS keeps the wheels turning. If you don't have ABS, you
can do
that with your foot.
Brakes and throttle are not binary
devices, learning to modulate
these is the difference between a road course
driver and a drag racer.
" The instructor said that if I were in
any
> Porsche or RWD car I would have done at least two full spins.
He said the
> VR-4 is very forgiving and very good for track use. I
personally think I
> scared him a little. I found the best way was
to keep constant throttle
> or
> braking up and over the crest and
don't do anything fancy. "
>
FWD would have been okay, too.
You
likely would not have gotten away with that if the track was
wet,
either.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:39:44
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need timing belt install help!!!
What I did - was to jsut be
careful in turning them with the wrenches. Be careful because the whole
assembly is spring loaded though.
Certain combinations will or
will not work as far as turning them goes. The rears I put on very easily
- they lined up perfectly with no tension on the camshafts from the
springs. The front bank was opposite. I think both intake and
exhaust were partially open. Regardless - the thing to do is to keep one
bank closed while you move the other to its appropriate position, then move that
one to its appropriate position. Obviously you have the service manuals.
When I did this, the front exhaust and intake were rotated towards each
other. (the white markings were side by side almost) I rotated the
front exhaust counterclockwise until it was lined up. It was under tension
at this point, but if not touched - it would stay there without moving.
The slightest bump and it would spring forwards or backwards. So - I
carefully put the timing belt over it. Next I rotated the front intake
clockwise to where it was lined up. Same thing applies - it was also under
tension. I clipped the timing belt to both cam gears, and used two long
ratchets to keep the thing from moving (i put it on the intake and exhaust cam
and ratcheted it to where it was snug up against the frame)
So - now I
threaded it under the water pump, and over the rear intake, and rear
exhaust. These were almost in perfect alignment because there was no
spring tension on them where they were - they were I assume both in static
states - either open or closed fully. The rest of the timing belt change
was straightforward, and the one thing I can note that helped me alto was
rotating the crank counterclockwise two teeth. That way when I put the
timing belt on - I just turned the crank clockwise two teeth, and that put
appropriate tension on the belt between the rear exhaust cam shaft and the
crank. Without doing this - I found that it was hard to get the belt tight
just by pulling on it. Regardless, I then routed it over the tensioner and
pulley, and it all works now. At least I can turn the entire engine, and
everything lines up still, days later even.
I would say it runs -
but I haven;t a clue as to the fact that my car is still in pieces (although
quite a bit fewer now that I have the timing belt change out of the
way.
- -Cody
#Ok, here's my problem. When I decided to do
the 60k service myself, I also
#decided that I'd get the valve stem seals and
valve guides replaced. So I
#pulled the head off and sent it to the machine
shop.
#
#Keep in mind that when I took off the timing belt, I just made
sure the cam
#sprockets and crankshaft was in the correct timing positions
before
#loosening the belt and removing it. I didn't make any markings
on the belt
#being that I would be replacing it.
#
#So now the head is
done and bolted back on the block. Here's where I am
#stuck. I am
trying to get the camshaft sprockets in the correct position in
#order to
install the timing belt.
#
#Referring to page 11-28 of the Service manual
it says:
#
#"Make sure the timing marks on the camshaft sprockets for
intake
#and exhaust
#valves are not are not within the range A in the
illustration at left. If
#the timing mark is withing rang A, turn the
camshaft sprocket to move the
#timing mark to the area closest to range
A."
#
#Looking at the diagram I cannot figure out where exactly range A
is.
#
#Anyone who's done this before, your input is greatly
appreciated.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:01:57
+0200
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject:
Team3S: clutch replacement parts
I need to identify all of the parts
necessary to replace the clutch in my
'94 R/T TT with a stock unit to be
installed by a local shop here in
Germany.
www.mitsupartsdirect.com is currently
offering 25% off and reduced
shipping, and they provided the following
quote:
MR111650 Disc $65.29
MD742801 Cover $100.91
MB837549 Bearing
$31.56
Seems reasonable... are there any other parts I need or should
consider
replacing while they're in there? I may have them replace my
synchros while
they're at it, at least if it's any cheaper to do it at the
same time (I
already have the synchros).
Thanks!
- - --
Jim
Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:05:23
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S:
timing belt change
> Thanks, folks, for your comments on the
difficulties of changing timing
> belts. It sounds like the dealers 5-8
hours of labor charges are will
> justified. Would you do this job
again yourselves? I am a good mechanic
> but I need my car on a
daily basis. Do you suggest doing this on my own
the
> first time, or
is this the kind of job where the original one day estimate
> is going to
turn into a week? Comments appreciated.
>
>
Andy
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:13:28
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Lash Adjuster Question??
> Is this ok, or is something
wrong with brand new lash
> adjusters I just put in. According to the
manual not
> being able to move them is a normal condition and
>
that if I can move them, they are in need of replacement.
Did you prime
them with oil before installing the new ones?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:37:19
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: timing belt change
- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew
D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
> Thanks,
folks, for your comments on the difficulties of changing timing
belts. It
sounds like the dealers 5-8 hours of labor charges are will
justified.
Would you do this job again yourselves? I am a good mechanic
but I need
my car on a daily basis. Do you suggest doing this on my own the
first time,
or is this the kind of job where the original one day estimate
is going to
turn into a week? Comments appreciated.
> Andy
>
Hey,
Andy,
Did you go to the 60k Service "how-to" page on our website to see
what is
entailed? It's in the FAQ pages, under the "Maintenance"
section.
www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm It lists
all the parts, tools, and procedures, so
you can decide for yourself what is
involved, and whether or not it's a job
you should
tackle...
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:14:11
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S:
timing belt change
Bob - yes - I reviewed the 60k writeup. From the
writeup it looks like I
could do the belt change. However, experience is the
great teacher and I
would welcome any comments from those who have gone
before me. I am at 110k
miles and trying to figure out what I will do when I
roll up on 120k. The
advice on this list has been invaluable and I have been
basically lurking
for the last month. Jeff L's website is unbelievably good
and I have learned
a huge amount about my 93 FStorm Stealth tt awd from it.
Happy driving.
Andy
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#476
*********************