team3s
Friday, April 13
2001
Volume 01 : Number
463
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:22:23 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
While the brackets I use are made of 7075
aluminum, I feel they are much
stronger than the spindle they attach
to. I based my design on the stillen
kit's brackets and made them
'larger', thus stronger. I kept the caliper
tight and the choice of
rotor OEM to reduce any potential problems that I
can't
foresee.
I certainly can see the need of a government to set rules
for safety in
their automobile. There are times I wish our
government would tighten the
rules to remove some of the 'road hazards' from
our streets.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Barry E. King
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:37 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
Please keep in mind that the Swiss goverment,
as would many others, are
being extremely conservative.
I certainly do
not accept their numbers as gospel. I have no doubt that
there is a
sound engineering foundation in what they are doing, but that
does not mean
that in practice a particular rejected design will not work in
real
life.
Brad's brake kit and the cars using them are holding up so far
quite well
from what I can see, and under rather high duress
conditions. Whether it
stands the test of time will be
proven...well...over time. I see no reason
not to use his
kit.
There isn't a lot to argue about really. The theory means
little if it
cannot be demonstrated somehow one way or the other. The
empirical evidence
so far suggests that Brad's kit is as good as any
other.
And I believe you are right. The driver controls the amount
of pedal
pressure. Brakes that are "too powerful" and used extremey
aggressively
will cause other practical issues rendering them unusable far
before they
have a chance to buckle the suspenion of the
vehicle.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
I find this "these brakes are way to powerful for our cars" argument
>
almost ludicrous!
<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:58:04
-0700
From: Jim Elferdink <
macintosh@sunra.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake shims?
You're right about those rubber piston seals. The
inboard pistons must do
the most work, or at least run hotter, because those
were the ones with the
melted seals.
I use a similar technique to
yours with the big Channellocks, changing one
pad at a time. I learned that
lesson in basic hydraulics a long time ago on
my TR-3. Nothing like popping
out a piston to slow down your pad change!
By watching the pit stops at
Daytona and Sebring on Speedvision, I see the
racers now have brake piston
depressor tools that push all the pistons in
simultaneously. Pretty cool--and
fast!
‹Jim
>
> You will notice, after a while, that the
rubber seals around the pistons
> will deteriorate as they cook. When you
change pads, you'll be picking out
> pieces of rubber seals with the old
pads. This is normal, but not good. If
> you continue to run stock
calipers and drive the car on the street, you
> should rebuild them with
new seals every two years or maybe every season.
> Otherwise, the pistons
will get wet, begin to corrode, and then they will
> stick.
>
> By the bye: My biggest problem with changing pads on the stock rotors
was
> figuring out how to get all four pistons depressed so I could slide
new
> pads in.
>
> I finally figured it out, if this helps.
First, I take off the cap on the
> brake fluid reservoir. Next, I use a
gigantic pair of slip-joint pliers to
> grab and pull back the pad on one
side of the caliper, depressing the
> pistons all the way on that side.
Change that pad. Grab the other side,
> pull back the pad and pistons, and
then change the second pad. The key:
> don't try to change both pads at
the same time. Always leave one pad in
> place to keep the pistons on that
side from extending. Sounds basic, but it
> took a few times before it
dawned on me.
>
> I got to where I could change a set of pads up
front in about 30 minutes
> trackside, from tires up to tires down. One
good thing about running the
> Big Reds is that a set of pads lasts at
least two weekends, so I don't have
> to perform any more trackside pad
changes.
>
> Rich/old poop
>>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:58:36
-0700
From: Jim Elferdink <
macintosh@sunra.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake shims?
The cordless drill is a great idea. I'll take one
this weekend--along with
my spare pads and my stopwatch to time my pad change
:)
Don't trust those torsion extensions the tire stores use. They can be
WAY
off their rated torque. A real torque wrench is the only way.
‹Jim
> A cordless impact wrench is mush better, but if you notice,
Discount Tire
> uses a tortion extension to prevent overtorquing from the
impact wrench..
> And you are 100% correct - I love antiseize compound on
the studs and other
> places that corrode, like the hub surface and rotor
hat - just don't get any
> onthe business part of the brakes!
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:20:54
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake shims?
>By watching the pit stops at Daytona and
Sebring on Speedvision, I see the
>racers now have brake piston depressor
tools that push all the pistons in
>simultaneously. Pretty cool--and
fast!
>
Before I figured out how to handle the pad change, I looked
everywhere for
one of those tools. JC Whitney had one, but it required a hole
or a notch
in the pads, like on domestic cars.
Rich
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:12:25
-0700
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Red Kit (!)
No argument in regards to Movit kit they are WAY to
expensive mostly due
to the higher grade aluminum they use in their kits. I
find it way too
much and not sure how much the 7 versus 6 aluminum really
makes? Anyone
Know. They claim it makes a big difference and is much harder
to work
with therfore the inflated cost. I found KVR more knowledgable and
ended
up coming away thinking the extra cost didn't justify the higher
grade
aluminum.
Rich
Ken Middaugh wrote:
>
> >
replaced routinely with brake and other components as well. I personally
>
> wouldn't use the APs because there isn't a reasonable cost bolt on
kit
> > or custom way to do it.
>
> I'm not sure if your
main point is a "reasonable cost" kit or just the
> availability of
a "bolt on" kit. Anyway,
>
http://www.dynamicracing1.com/Monthly_Specials/monthly_specials.html
is
> selling the VR4/TT 6 piston AP caliper & 35.5 mm rotor bolt on
kit for $2749
> as their monthly special. This costs less than the
Mov'it Big Red kit even
> though it contains better calipers and wider
rotors!
>
> -Ken
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:32:48
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
The difference can be mostly attributed to
how much flex the caliper &
adapters have when the pads hit the
rotors.
The more flex you have, the less braking efficiency you have
because the
pads wont push against the rotor evenly along the face.
On
Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Richard wrote:
> No argument in regards to Movit kit
they are WAY to expensive mostly due
> to the higher grade aluminum they
use in their kits. I find it way too
> much and not sure how much the 7
versus 6 aluminum really makes? Anyone
> Know. They claim it makes a big
difference and is much harder to work
> with therfore the inflated cost. I
found KVR more knowledgable and ended
> up coming away thinking the extra
cost didn't justify the higher grade
> aluminum.
>
>
Rich
>
> Ken Middaugh wrote:
> >
> > >
replaced routinely with brake and other components as well. I personally
>
> > wouldn't use the APs because there isn't a reasonable cost bolt on
kit
> > > or custom way to do it.
> >
> > I'm not
sure if your main point is a "reasonable cost" kit or just the
>
> availability of a "bolt on" kit. Anyway,
> >
http://www.dynamicracing1.com/Monthly_Specials/monthly_specials.html
is
> > selling the VR4/TT 6 piston AP caliper & 35.5 mm rotor bolt
on kit for $2749
> > as their monthly special. This costs less
than the Mov'it Big Red kit even
> > though it contains better calipers
and wider rotors!
> >
> > -Ken
- ---
Geoff Mohler
<
gemohler@speedtoys.com>
California, USA
I own a lotta cars. But in the best interests
of not having to continualy
edit this file to meet the needs of eight
specific lists, and no to awaken the
idiots within others who think -thier-
cars are the best and Im a fool for
having anything -but- thier kind of
car..I have not listed them. If Im on
the list you are reading..I have
one.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:17:27
-0400
From: "Michael D. Crose" <
ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
Richard,
I am not sure which 6xxx Al alloy
you are refering to but here are the
numbers on the 7075 Al:
YS: 95
Mpa
Shield Strength: 150 Mpa
Hardness: 60 (HB500)
Thermal Expansion:
23.2 (10-6/ºC)
other data is available at
http://www.efunda.comThe UTS is
probably not as important in this application as is the fatigue
life of the
metal. Is the braket shot peened? If I were going to put the
kit
on my car I would definitly like to know that it has undergone extensive
testing. If the kit hasn't failed in use to date then if it were to
fail it
would likely be due to fatigue. If the right metal is selected
the failure
should be preventable by visible inspection.
Michael D.
Crose
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:34:24
-0700
From: "Ryan Peterson" <
ryanp@crcwnet.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Hatch struts gone bad
Anyone know an aftermarket company that makes the
rear hatch and hood gas
struts? The dealer in town wants over $200.
EACH!
Ryan Peterson
www.crcwnet.com/~ryanp***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:54:51
-0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
> limits... and killed the pistons. But the
brakes are a part of life-saving
> and this is much more important for me
than any 10mm more of diameter (not
> 35.5mm, leave the dot away and your
on it :)) or 10 pistons in a caliper
:)
Actually, I was referring to
the width of the rotors in the AP kit which are
indeed 35.5 mm. The
point that I was intending to make is that these 35.5
mm wide rotors should
provide better cooling, more resistance to warping,
and be less likely to
fade than the more common 32 mm wide rotors.
The AP rotors also come in a
variety of diameters. I'm not sure which
diameter rotor the AP VR4/TT
kit uses but it might be (coincidentally) 355
mm.
I don't doubt that
it is possible to break suspension components with rotors
greater than 322 mm
in diameter when using high grip track tires. However I
think it's
likely that one will obtain better braking (same stopping force,
less warping
and fading, longer pad life) using the larger AP kit and
operating it
at something less than it's maximum capacity, perhaps at
85%-90%, VERSUS
using a Big Red kit with a 322 mm rotor and continually
using it at 100% of
it's capacity.
I wish I had the money to find out
:).
Ken
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:14:43
-0700
From: "steve" <
nws3@winisp.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Red Kit (!)
Wouldn't it be possible to make stronger suspension
components?
Has anyone made ducting to get cool air to our brakes like many
cars have?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
...
> I don't doubt that it is possible to
break suspension components with
rotors
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:22:31
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Kit (!)
At 10:14 PM 4/12/01 -0700, steve
wrote:
>Wouldn't it be possible to make stronger suspension
components?
>Has anyone made ducting to get cool air to our brakes like
many cars have?
Go to
www.bazillionbooks.com, scroll down to
Racing Photos, click on
Heartland Park Nov 2000 to see a set of ducts for
cooling brakes. These are
rather expensive, since they are made of space age
plastics, but you'll get
the idea.
Rich/94 VR4
Big Reds w/air ducts
and water injection
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:59:17
-0400 (EDT)
From: "Mark William Hindelang" <
hindelan@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo / HP goal
first of all, who has the most hp?
I know
this is a general question, but when we rate hp
on our cars, are we talking
about to the wheels.. what am i pushing
on the ground?? or is it to the
crank???
So it leads to my next question.. i have stock 9bs now and want
to upgrade.
I guess my long term goal is probably to have a 500-600hp car.
which isn't much
considering the extreme people out there... Anyway, what
turbos aare going to
suit me best for those goals, considering id like to
upgrade slowly.
Id like to have a set of turbos that will let me up to 14psi,
but then as i get
more details on the car, keep upping the boost to give that
500-600hp.
are the 15gs good for this, or is it recommended to jump right
into other
turbos that GTPro offers. like the 357's or the 399R's or the
368sx, or simply
the 15g. Honestly what is the difference between all
these guys?
Thanks
Mark
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:31:11
From: "Kevin Umbreit" <
unclesam099@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hatch struts gone bad
i'm pretty sure that you can go to your
local auto parts store and get a
replacement. just ask somebody at the
counter so they can look it up in the
computer.
- --Kevin
Umbreit
'91 R/T
>
>Anyone know an aftermarket company
that makes the rear hatch and hood gas
>struts? The dealer in town wants
over $200. EACH!
>
>Ryan
Peterson
>www.crcwnet.com/~ryanp
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#463
*********************