team3s             Tuesday, April 3 2001             Volume 01 : Number 452




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 07:13:10 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:What to Gap Spark Plugs at for Blitz DSBC

Depends on what boost you want to run.  For up to 16psi with stock ignition
I'd use ~.032; for more, I'd use ~.028.  Our ignitions can be weak at high
boost.

9 year old wires, might as well change them out, though they are  probably
ok...
again, if you intend higher boost electricity starts searching for less
resistance
pathways than the plug.

Jack T.

Greg Gonzales wrote:

> replacing spark plugs, what
> gap to set them to?  since also installing Blitz DSBC.
> Is it advisible to change wires at same time? Car has 40k
> but is a 92.
> Greg G    92 RT TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 09:22:40 -0400
From: Mark Creekmore <mcreekmore@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Very rich exhaust at idle - VR4

Check out the engine coolant temperature sensor. My stealth failed emissions
with hydrocarbons in the 400 range and that was the problem.

The way that I understand it is:
When you start a cold engine it runs rich until it warms up. My stealth never
thought that it was warm so it continued to run rich.

Mark Creekmore
1992 Black Stealth R/T TT

"Geddes, Brian J" wrote:

> All -
>
> I've suspected for a while that my VR-4 was running rich at idle, so when I
> was getting an oil change today I asked the guys if I could play with their
> emissions test equipment.  They obliged (for free! :), and I found that my
> car is indeed running VERY rich at idle - to the tune of hydrocarbons in the
> 350-400 range.  At cruising engine speeds (but not under load), the HC
> levels were much lower and in normal ranges.
>
> What could cause rich exhaust at idle?  Bad O2 sensor?  Bad plugs?  My
> precats have been gutted, but the engine was nice and warm so I don't think
> this should make a difference.  Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Brian
> 1994 Pearl Yellow VR-4
> 1996 Green 3000GT (For Sale!!!)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:22:49 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Sanity Check

Erik,

   Bravo for you.  Tein HA are the ONLY coilover that will fit the VR-4.
These are about $1,500 to $2,000.  How much did you get them for.  If it is
less than that then you either found a great deal or have them for the
Base/SL model.  Have that clarified as there are minor differences between
the models and years (most notably that infamous spring perch on a 1995 VR-4
with automatic sunroof).  But anyone will know that a Spyder suspension is
beefier than a Base and those should not be labeled "for all years and
models of 3000GT."  Good catch.  Good luck.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik [mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:57 PM
To: Team3S List (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Sanity Check

Quick question:

I just ordered the Tein HA Coilover kit for my 3000GT (base model).  On the
invoice, it lists the kit as "Tein HA Coilover Kit for 1990-99 3000GT, All
Models"  Um... maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't the kit for the
base/SL models be *different* than the kit TT for the TT models (at least
the springs anyway)?  The stock spring rates are substantially different,
and the weight distribution is slightly different, too.  Should I be
worried, or just assume that Tein knows what they're doing?


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:29:54 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Driver's seat in passenger side?

Also, when removing the front seats the seat belt connectors go with them.
This is labeled as Inner Seatbelt (item 10 on page 52A-21 of the manual on
CD).  Since I will have a race seat and be required by US law to wear the
stock seatbelt - I have to keep this connection intact.  I know the seat
belt is bolted sideways into the seat but I'll have to figure a way to mount
this to the floor where the rear bolt came out of the seat rail or find one
from an Eclipse and bolt that down somehow.  Any ideas?

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ Big Reds, Autopower rollbar, Sparco Evo race seat,
Simpson 5-point harnesses, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.team3s.com/FAQrollbar.htm

- -----Original Message-----
From: Schilberg, Darren [mailto:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:56 AM
To: 'Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st'
Subject: Team3S: RE: Driver's seat in passenger side?

Well swapping the driver's and passenger's seat does not work.  The floor is
not actually flat but it angles (higher in the center and lower toward the
outside) so if you try to switch the seat then it is angled quite a bit
because of this offset.  Perhaps some spacers would do the trick.

It appears as though everything will work (the hand controls are not too
buried to still be useful, etc.) and the distance between the front mounting
points (15-1/2") and the rear mounting points (16-7/8") are the same on both
sides.  The only problem is that the seatbelt connector is on the opposite
side at first.  I did not see if this can be easily switched last night.  I
was just trying to see how well the race seat fits in the driver's position
(it fits well by the way).

The only advisable option would be to buy a driver's seat from a right-hand
drive car and install it properly.

For anyone taking notes ... these are 14mm nuts on the front of the seats
and 14mm bolts holding down the back.  There is one harness under the
passenger seat to unplug and there is a stock radio amplifier (on the 1995
VR-4 at least) under the passenger seat.  The driver's seat has two
harnesses plugged into the seat and one harness sitting idle.  There is
nothing under the driver's seat.  The passenger seat weighs 40 pounds and
the driver seat weighs 60 pounds.  The fiberglass race seat that is
replacing the driver seat weighs 16 pounds and with the harness will be
about 20 pounds total.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:08:24 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Oil Gauge Survey

I'm curious what everyone's oil gauges read during a 70 mph cruise on the
expressway.  After my recent engine rebuild, mine seems a bit high (needle
is at 2/3 of the gauge at 70 mph, ~3000rpm)  Thanks for any input.

Jeff V.
jeffv@1nce.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 15:56:59 -0000
From: "Susan ." <vr4girl@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: mass airflow sensor

My VR4 has been hard to start up then sputtering a bit upon warm up, then
runs fine.  A mechanic has just told me that the "mass airflow sensor's
connector is dirty" and will need to be replaced.  He quoted me the new part
at $785.  Is there any chance in finding a used/reconditioned part?  He's
also stated that by possibly utilizing a reconditioned part, the indicator
light will most likely come back on as the 'barometric pressure sensor will
probably not have been reset'.  Any feedback on this?  Currently my check
engine, aero, and oil indicator lights are all on.  Help!

~ Susan
'91 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: mass airflow sensor

I got one sitting right -here-.

I dont need it.

On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Susan . wrote:

> My VR4 has been hard to start up then sputtering a bit upon warm up, then
> runs fine.  A mechanic has just told me that the "mass airflow sensor's
> connector is dirty" and will need to be replaced.  He quoted me the new part
> at $785.  Is there any chance in finding a used/reconditioned part?  He's
> also stated that by possibly utilizing a reconditioned part, the indicator
> light will most likely come back on as the 'barometric pressure sensor will
> probably not have been reset'.  Any feedback on this?  Currently my check
> engine, aero, and oil indicator lights are all on.  Help!
>
> ~ Susan
> '91 VR4

- ---
Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedtoys.com
California, USA

I own a lotta cars.  But in the best interests of not having to continualy
edit this file to meet the needs of eight specific lists, and no to awaken the
idiots within others who think -thier- cars are the best and Im a fool for
having anything -but- thier kind of car..I have not listed them.  If Im on
the list you are reading..I have one.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:18:55 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: mass airflow sensor

This sounds bogus - electrical connectors that are dirty can be cleaned with
electrical contact cleaner.  If the connector is BROKEN, then you might have
to replace (or repair) that portion of the electrical harness. If the mass
airflow sensor itself is defective, that's another matter.  I still think I
would try cleaning it before replacing it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Susan . [SMTP:vr4girl@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:57 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: mass airflow sensor
>
> My VR4 has been hard to start up then sputtering a bit upon warm up, then
> runs fine.  A mechanic has just told me that the "mass airflow sensor's
> connector is dirty" and will need to be replaced.  He quoted me the new
> part
> at $785.  Is there any chance in finding a used/reconditioned part?  He's
> also stated that by possibly utilizing a reconditioned part, the indicator
>
> light will most likely come back on as the 'barometric pressure sensor
> will
> probably not have been reset'.  Any feedback on this?  Currently my check
> engine, aero, and oil indicator lights are all on.  Help!
>
> ~ Susan
> '91 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:23:51 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: mass airflow sensor

Just re-read your message - what error codes is your mechanic getting?  If
the check engine light is lit, it's gotta be squawking about something
specific.  The fact that the oil light is lit, but if it "runs fine" when
warm,  you must have oil and oil pressure.  That and the aero light lit
sounds light something totally disconnected, like maybe the mass air flow
connector.
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:19 AM
> To: 'Susan .'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: mass airflow sensor
>
> This sounds bogus - electrical connectors that are dirty can be cleaned
> with
> electrical contact cleaner.  If the connector is BROKEN, then you might
> have
> to replace (or repair) that portion of the electrical harness. If the mass
> airflow sensor itself is defective, that's another matter.  I still think
> I
> would try cleaning it before replacing it.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Susan . [SMTP:vr4girl@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:57 AM
> > To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Team3S: mass airflow sensor
> >
> > My VR4 has been hard to start up then sputtering a bit upon warm up,
> then
> > runs fine.  A mechanic has just told me that the "mass airflow sensor's
> > connector is dirty" and will need to be replaced.  He quoted me the new
> > part
> > at $785.  Is there any chance in finding a used/reconditioned part?
> He's
> > also stated that by possibly utilizing a reconditioned part, the
> indicator
> >
> > light will most likely come back on as the 'barometric pressure sensor
> > will
> > probably not have been reset'.  Any feedback on this?  Currently my
> check
> > engine, aero, and oil indicator lights are all on.  Help!
> >
> > ~ Susan
> > '91 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:25:11 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: mass airflow sensor

> My VR4 has been hard to start up then sputtering a bit upon
> warm up, then runs fine.  A mechanic has just told me that
> the "mass airflow sensor's connector is dirty" and will need
> to be replaced.  He quoted me the new part at $785.  Is there
> any chance in finding a used/reconditioned part?

If the sensor's connector is dirty, why didn't he just clean it?  Why rip
you off for $785?

> He's also stated that by possibly utilizing a reconditioned
> part, the indicator light will most likely come back on as
> the 'barometric pressure sensor will probably not have
> been reset'.  Any feedback on this?  Currently my check
> engine, aero, and oil indicator lights are all on.  Help!

The check engine light should go out if the problem is resolved.  If you do
actually have a bad barometric pressure sensor in your MAF sensor, swapping
in a different MAF should resolve the problem and the light should go out.
If it doesn't, disconnecting the battery for a while should reset the stored
codes.

Three different warning lights being on doesn't sound good.  The other two
(oil and aero) lamps aren't related to the Check Engine light.  Was the oil
lamp on before the mechanic messed around with the car?  There's an oil
pressure sensor near the oil filter that probably got its wire bumped off
the connector during an oil change or something.  The active aero problem
should be troubleshooted separately.  There are some members' sites that
describe how best to fix those issues.

First thing I'd do is find a different mechanic.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:40:39 -0400
From: <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: Team3S: Help!!! Need Mitsubishi specialty tools for 60k service.

I understand to do the 60K service on our cars the following Mitsubishi
specialty tools are required:

Tensioner Pulley Socket for tensioning of timing belt - MD998752-01
End Yolk Holder for holding of crankshaft pulley when tightening or
removing - MD990767-01

Well I went to my local Mitsu dealer to order the tools. However when
looking up the tools, they couldn't find them in the system.

If anyone has the tools and are looking to sell/rent/lend them or if you
know where I could acquire the tools, drop me a line.

I'm also looking for another specialty tool.

Cylinder head bolt wring for loosening and tightening of cylinder head
bolt - MD998051.

According to the service manual, this tool is required to remove the
cylinder head.


Michael Bulaon.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:59:14 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Help!!! Need Mitsubishi specialty tools for 60k service.

I can't help you with the 60k tools, but I can tell you that you don't need
the Mitsu special tool for the head bolts.  I bought a Craftsman 10mm hex
head ratchet fitting when I did mine.  I've done two engine teardowns and
one re-assembly with this tool and had no problems at all.  Good luck.

Jeff V.
jeffv@1nce.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of
profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:41 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Help!!! Need Mitsubishi specialty tools for 60k
service.


I understand to do the 60K service on our cars the following Mitsubishi
specialty tools are required:

Tensioner Pulley Socket for tensioning of timing belt - MD998752-01
End Yolk Holder for holding of crankshaft pulley when tightening or
removing - MD990767-01

Well I went to my local Mitsu dealer to order the tools. However when
looking up the tools, they couldn't find them in the system.

If anyone has the tools and are looking to sell/rent/lend them or if you
know where I could acquire the tools, drop me a line.

I'm also looking for another specialty tool.

Cylinder head bolt wring for loosening and tightening of cylinder head
bolt - MD998051.

According to the service manual, this tool is required to remove the
cylinder head.


Michael Bulaon.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:19:08 -0000
From: "Susan ." <vr4girl@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: MAS continued...

I forgot to mention that I just had the clutch replaced, and when I picked
it up from the mechanic, that is when the check engine, oil, and aero lights
were all on.  Also upon pick up from the mechanic, the headlights are stuck
in the 'up' postition, but not on, and the on/off switch is ineffective. 
They explained it was probably just a blown fuse, and there was paint damage
and scraping across my bumper that they refused happened there; so after
much teeth gnashing, I finally took the car and left with these issues.

It is now at a different mechanic, but could the aero, headlights, and the
mass airflow sensor all be related to some fuse issue?

Susan

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:27:30 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: MAS continued...

It appears that you have a serious claim to file with the original shop.
Have you escalated your complaint in their organization?  Also, where are
you located?  Maybe someone can recommend a reputable place.

Still sounds like they left electrical stuff disconnected.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Susan . [SMTP:vr4girl@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:19 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: MAS continued...
>
> I forgot to mention that I just had the clutch replaced, and when I picked
>
> it up from the mechanic, that is when the check engine, oil, and aero
> lights
> were all on.  Also upon pick up from the mechanic, the headlights are
> stuck
> in the 'up' postition, but not on, and the on/off switch is ineffective. 
> They explained it was probably just a blown fuse, and there was paint
> damage
> and scraping across my bumper that they refused happened there; so after
> much teeth gnashing, I finally took the car and left with these issues.
>
> It is now at a different mechanic, but could the aero, headlights, and the
>
> mass airflow sensor all be related to some fuse issue?
>
> Susan

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 13:00:35 -0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: MAS continued...

I just replaced another clutch this weekend...you do not "need" to
disconnect any wires to change the clutch, other than the speedo and reverse
indicator, which, if left unconnected would not give you the indicators that
you are seeing.

I have a theory that may be what you are seeing.  If you are not careful,
when removing or installing the tranny, you can damage a large wire loom
runs from the firewall to a motor mount around the shifter levers(on tranny)
and up to the top of the bell housing.  I do not know what wires are
contained in this loom, but there are many and it may have gotten
damaged...there are also some connectors above the bell housing that are
related to this loom that may have been pulled loose??  This can be
inspected by removing the MAS and associated.

If it was not acting up when you brought it too them, it shouldn't be acting
up now!!  Go to the top, with the business that messed up your car, until it
is resolved to your satisifaction.

Good Luck,

Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT (Hoping for the best)


>From: "Susan ." <vr4girl@hotmail.com>
>To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Team3S: MAS continued...
>Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:19:08 -0000
>
>I forgot to mention that I just had the clutch replaced, and when I picked
>it up from the mechanic, that is when the check engine, oil, and

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 13:05:17 -0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: MAS continued...

Oops...before anyone calls me on this one...you also need to disconnect the
MAS...that makes 3 connections...And O2 sensors if you have a Calif. or OBD2
car with 4 O2 sensors.

Mark


>From: "Mark Wendlandt" <stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
>To: vr4girl@hotmail.com, Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>Subject: Re: Team3S: MAS continued...
>Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 13:00:35 -0500
>
>I just replaced another clutch this weekend...you do not "need" to
>disconnect any wires to change the clutch, other than the speedo and
>reverse
>indicator, which, if left unconnected would not give you the indicators
>that
>you are seeing.
>
>I have a theory that may be what you are seeing.  If you are not careful,
>when removing or installing the tranny, you can damage a large wire loom
>runs from the firewall to a motor mount around the shifter levers(on
>tranny)
>and up to the top of the bell housing.  I do not know what wires are
>contained in this loom, but there are many and it may have gotten
>damaged...there are also some connectors above the bell housing that are
>related to this loom that may have been pulled loose??  This can be
>inspected by removing the MAS and associated.
>
>If it was not acting up when you brought it too them, it shouldn't be
>acting
>up now!!  Go to the top, with the business that messed up your car, until
>it
>is resolved to your satisifaction.
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Mark Wendlandt
>'91RT/TT (Hoping for the best)
>
>
>>From: "Susan ." <vr4girl@hotmail.com>
>>To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>>Subject: Team3S: MAS continued...
>>Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:19:08 -0000
>>
>>I forgot to mention that I just had the clutch replaced, and when I picked
>>it up from the mechanic, that is when the check engine, oil, and
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Margrave <davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: Team3S: ecs


My ECS seems to be wigging out.  Sometime it will start flashing both
"tour" and "sport" until the car is turned off.  Sometimes it goes away
when the car is restarted, sometimes it continues.  I hope it's just
something simple like a short or loose connector somewhere, because I
really don't feel like replacing any expensive parts.

Dave
'91 R/T TT



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:53:32 EDT
From: ThorHolth@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Front Struts

Egads, I just found out I need to have the front struts replaced in my 1991
Stealth R/T Turbo.  The car has the Electronically controlled suspension,
which make it, of course, more expensive.

Is there an aftermarket replacement, and if so, from where? Right now, the
estimate is $225.00 each for the parts. (i'll replace them myself).

thanks for any input.

- -Thor

1991 Stealth R/T Turbo (just bought last week)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:00:18 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Front Struts

How do you know that they need to be replaced?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ThorHolth@aol.com [SMTP:ThorHolth@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 3:54 PM
> To: Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Front Struts
>
> Egads, I just found out I need to have the front struts replaced in my
> 1991
> Stealth R/T Turbo.  The car has the Electronically controlled suspension,
> which make it, of course, more expensive.
>
> Is there an aftermarket replacement, and if so, from where? Right now, the
>
> estimate is $225.00 each for the parts. (i'll replace them myself).
>
> thanks for any input.
>
> -Thor
>
> 1991 Stealth R/T Turbo (just bought last week)
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:45:46 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Very rich exhaust at idle - VR4

> Check out the engine coolant temperature sensor. My stealth
> failed emissions with hydrocarbons in the 400 range and that
> was the problem.

But if the temp sensor goes south, then wouldn't the temp gauge on the dash
read low?  I thought that coolant temp was what the "Temp" gauge on the dash
measured...  or am I smoking something?

- --Erik


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:27:14 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ecs

Yup, sure is.  Under the strut covers (under the hood) are some wires that
control the ECS.  Often if someone puts pressure on the cover, the wires
crack or separate from the connector.  Also, I understand the connector has
come loose, failed, etc.   Check this area first, that is 95% of the cases
where those lights flash.
Best of luck!

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT

David Margrave wrote:

>
> My ECS seems to be wigging out.  Sometime it will start flashing both
> "tour" and "sport" until the car is turned off.  Sometimes it goes away
> when the car is restarted, sometimes it continues.  I hope it's just
> something simple like a short or loose connector somewhere, because I
> really don't feel like replacing any expensive parts.
>
> Dave
> '91 R/T TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 18:17:17 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: MAS continued...

Not to mention the possibility of a ground strap that is missing or
improperly attached.  My '94 VR4 had one on the downpipe.  It could be one
or more fuses.

In any case, Susan, it sounds to me based on what I have read that someone
is attempting to rip you off either through unknowing incompetence or via
malicous intent.

If you cannot get any further with this outfit you may have to cut your
losses and seek assistance through a competent mechanic.

If you need a new MAF, see Mr. Mohler's post and make him an offer he can't
refuse.  I hear he gives stuff away <g>.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Oops...before anyone calls me on this one...you also need to
> disconnect the
> MAS...that makes 3 connections...And O2 sensors if you have a
> Calif. or OBD2
> car with 4 O2 sensors.
>
> Mark


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 21:33:05 -0500
From: "Eric Cheek" <echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil Gauge Survey

Well before my last oil change (Changed to Mobile 1 synth) Mine would read 1
tick below 1/2, now it reads 2-3 ticks above the 1/2 mark at 70 MPH in 5th
(92 VR4). Hope that helps ....

Eric C. 92 VR4

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jeff VanOrsdal
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:08 AM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: Team3S: Oil Gauge Survey


I'm curious what everyone's oil gauges read during a 70 mph cruise on the
expressway.  After my recent engine rebuild, mine seems a bit high (needle
is at 2/3 of the gauge at 70 mph, ~3000rpm)  Thanks for any input.

Jeff V.
jeffv@1nce.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 23:38:04 EDT
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Gutting precatts and O2 sensor questions

Hey Guys.

I'm planning on gutting my precats tommorrow. Thing is my car is a Cailfornia model with the 4 o2 sensors. I was wondering what gutting the precats will do to these sensors (and what if any code they might generate) as they are directly before and after both precats. What is the purpose of having this o2 setup anyway? This car is a NA, BTW.

Thanks!

Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 23:35:07 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Gettin down low

My car is about as low as it can go.
I'm wondering if maybe it's too low.
Lord knows, it scrapes on everything from driveways to matchbox covers.
(you can see it at www.bazillionbooks.com, race photos, Heartland Park
November 2000)

One of the ROWGs around here said that if you go too low, you can encounter
bump steer.
Since my car reverts from neutral to classic understeer when it is really,
really pushed, I wonder if this could be bump steer. (I guess I don't
really know what bump steer does.)

I am thinking about raising it up an inch (it has Ground Control adjustable
suspension with camber plates) and increasing the camber to maybe -3 or
- -3.5 deg to see if that helps.

Any thoughts out there on ride height, camber settings, and such as that?

It is a street car, but not used for commuting. I drive it to and from the
track, maybe 300 miles one way.

Rich
94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD twin turbo
Ground Control suspension, 550 front/315 rear, camber plates, stock struts
Michelin Pilot street tires, Kuhmo race tires.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 21:48:24 -0700
From: "Ryan Peterson" <ryanp@crcwnet.com>
Subject: Team3S: biggest tires on an SL

Anyone know the widest tires that will fit on a 91 SL?

I already upsized once to 245 45 17, but would like to go up to 18".  To
match circumference, looks like the following two sizes would work:
245 40 18
280 (or 275) 35 18

I have a feeling that the 280 (or 275) might not fit. Anyone know for sure?
What are the dimensions for the stock 18" tires in the later model year
VR4s?

Thanks

Ryan Peterson
www.crcwnet.com/~ryanp


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:13:52 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: biggest tires on an SL

245/40 ZR18 is what I have on my car on aftermarket 18" Konigs.  This is
factory size for 18" wheels...

I believe 265 / 35 is the next logical step, and ~should fit~ - it fits the
VR4's just fine.

- -Cody

#-----Original Message-----
#From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
#[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Ryan Peterson
#Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:48 PM
#To: Stealth List
#Subject: Team3S: biggest tires on an SL
#
#
#Anyone know the widest tires that will fit on a 91 SL?
#
#I already upsized once to 245 45 17, but would like to go up to 18".  To
#match circumference, looks like the following two sizes would work:
#245 40 18
#280 (or 275) 35 18
#
#I have a feeling that the 280 (or 275) might not fit. Anyone know for sure?
#What are the dimensions for the stock 18" tires in the later model year
#VR4s?
#
#Thanks
#
#Ryan Peterson
#www.crcwnet.com/~ryanp
#

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:18:47 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gettin down low

I have heard people refer to bump steeras two different things.  One I'm
sure is wrong, but there might be more opinions out there on this.

Anyway - the one I have heard alot is bump steer - (in laymans terms)
meaning when you hit a bump, the cars tendency to steer itself in one
direction or another

the other one i heard was: when turning so much that the outer edge of the
car is effectively riding on its bump stops, or the spring is so compressed
that it has no more useful travel, thus creating a solid contact between the
frame and the road with no effective suspension, meaning nothing to soak up
bumps, so when you hit a bump in this situation, it can be actually quite
dangerous.

I swear I remember reading somewhere  (SCC maybe?) that in order to reduce
bumpsteer, or avoid it, to cut your bumpstops (on cars with normal lowering
springs).

Now - thats all I really know about the subject, so someone please correct
me where I;m wrong....

- -Cody

#-----Original Message-----
#From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
#[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Merritt
#Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:35 PM
#To: opentracking@topica.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
#Subject: Team3S: Gettin down low
#
#
#My car is about as low as it can go.
#I'm wondering if maybe it's too low.
#Lord knows, it scrapes on everything from driveways to matchbox covers.
#(you can see it at www.bazillionbooks.com, race photos, Heartland Park
#November 2000)
#
#One of the ROWGs around here said that if you go too low, you can encounter
#bump steer.
#Since my car reverts from neutral to classic understeer when it is really,
#really pushed, I wonder if this could be bump steer. (I guess I don't
#really know what bump steer does.)
#
#I am thinking about raising it up an inch (it has Ground Control adjustable
#suspension with camber plates) and increasing the camber to maybe -3 or
#-3.5 deg to see if that helps.
#
#Any thoughts out there on ride height, camber settings, and such as that?
#
#It is a street car, but not used for commuting. I drive it to and from the
#track, maybe 300 miles one way.
#
#Rich
#94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD twin turbo
#Ground Control suspension, 550 front/315 rear, camber plates, stock struts
#Michelin Pilot street tires, Kuhmo race tires.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 01:50:39 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: biggest tires on an SL

On my 1995 VR-4 ...

(Stock) 245/40/18 tires on 18x8.5J rims and stock offset.
(Racing) 255/40/17 tires on 17x8.5J rims and stock offset.

The rear will house a 275/xx/17 tire but the front will not.
I have not tried a 265-width up front but even if it did then its sidewall
is too "thin" or "short" to be supportive during hard cornering and that is
why the 255 is recommended.  Also, when at full turn the wider wheels begin
rubbing the front of the splashguard or oil cooler plastic covering.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com

1995 VR-4 for road racing and daily driver (17" race wheels and Yoko race
tires, Big Reds, Rollbar, Harnesses, Race seat)

- -----Original Message-----
From: cody [mailto:overclck@starband.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 01:14

245/40 ZR18 is what I have on my car on aftermarket 18" Konigs.  This is
factory size for 18" wheels...

I believe 265 / 35 is the next logical step, and ~should fit~ - it fits the
VR4's just fine.

- -Cody

#-----Original Message-----
#From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
#Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:48 PM
#
#What are the dimensions for the stock 18" tires in the later model year
#VR4s?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 23:12:56 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gettin down low

Well, the second one of these definitions is definitely not correct.  The
first is a symptom of bump steer.

To understand bump steer you have to think of how wheels move in relation to
the suspension components.  Static alignment (camber, castor, toe) really is
a poor reflection by itself of how a wheel on a given car will react to
various geomtery changes of the supension and weight transfer of car as it
accelerates (brakes, turns, moves forward faster).

Typical alignment settings try and optimize (compromise) between the best of
both worlds for real world driving conditions and moptimized ride comfort,
response, control and tire wear.  In these compromises there lie points
where vertical movement of the wheel causes changes in toe and castor.
These chanegs are usually acceptably.  However, excessive camber settings
for a particular suspension design will exacerbate the occurence of other
geometry settings during wheel movement.  Lowering (or raising) the
suspension can also cause this situation depending upon the design of the
suspension and steering mechanism.  Ideally the dreg link and tie rods (or
equivalent mechanisms) should be parallel within the usable suspension
range.  When these get out of whack bump steer can be more severe.

Bump steer happens most often on a racetrack on the outside front wheel.  If
you are actually experiencing bump steer on the track you might try and
increase the toe a little.  At odds with this is the fact that some toe out
may reduce the front end push.  Don't ignore the rear suspension as you can
adjust it with some work to increase or decrease the load on the front
wheels to help control bump steer.  Nasty game.

What I would suggest is to call GC and ask them what they think.  One of the
owners  may have enough recent memory about doing up the Stealth he worked
on to comment.  Plus, these guys put some damned fast cars on the track and
should know there stuff.

Having said all that, I don't think you are necessarily experiencing bump
steer.  Usually you can feel it in the steering wheel just as though there
was steering input that you didn't put there -- in fact that is exactly what
is happening with bump steer.  If this is not the case then you likely do
not have a bump steer problem to worry about.  Now that I think about it
some more, try some more +ve toe (in relation to wherever it is now) and see
what happens.  You may induce bump steer but you may find a spot where there
is a nice balance betwwen that phenomenon and less front end push.  Again,
think about the back end of the car here too.

Enough babbling already.

Just for kicks, here's a bump steer gauge I found a while back when looking
for alignment tools within reach of the average person:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/102008.htm


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> I have heard people refer to bump steeras two different things.  One I'm
> sure is wrong, but there might be more opinions out there on this.
>
> Anyway - the one I have heard alot is bump steer - (in laymans terms)
> meaning when you hit a bump, the cars tendency to steer itself in one
> direction or another
>
> the other one i heard was: when turning so much that the outer edge of the
> car is effectively riding on its bump stops, or the spring is so
> compressed
> that it has no more useful travel, thus creating a solid contact
> between the
> frame and the road with no effective suspension, meaning nothing
> to soak up
> bumps, so when you hit a bump in this situation, it can be actually quite
> dangerous.
>
> I swear I remember reading somewhere  (SCC maybe?) that in order to reduce
> bumpsteer, or avoid it, to cut your bumpstops (on cars with
> normal lowering
> springs).
>
> Now - thats all I really know about the subject, so someone please correct
> me where I;m wrong....
>
> -Cody
>
> #-----Original Message-----
> #
> #
> #My car is about as low as it can go.
> #I'm wondering if maybe it's too low.
> #Lord knows, it scrapes on everything from driveways to matchbox covers.
> #(you can see it at www.bazillionbooks.com, race photos, Heartland Park
> #November 2000)
> #
> #One of the ROWGs around here said that if you go too low, you
> can encounter
> #bump steer.
> #Since my car reverts from neutral to classic understeer when it
> is really,
> #really pushed, I wonder if this could be bump steer. (I guess I don't
> #really know what bump steer does.)
> #
> #I am thinking about raising it up an inch (it has Ground Control
> adjustable
> #suspension with camber plates) and increasing the camber to maybe -3 or
> #-3.5 deg to see if that helps.
> #
> #Any thoughts out there on ride height, camber settings, and such as that?
> #
> #It is a street car, but not used for commuting. I drive it to
> and from the
> #track, maybe 300 miles one way.
> #
> #Rich
> #94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD twin turbo
> #Ground Control suspension, 550 front/315 rear, camber plates,
> stock struts
> #Michelin Pilot street tires, Kuhmo race tires.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 23:36:20 -0700
From: "John Paul Dauber" <jpdauber@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Team3S: DR-500 Turbos

Does anybody else have the DR-500 turbos? They are available from Matt at
Dynamic racing for $1299. I just put a set in my 91 VR-4 and am truely
amazed with the increased performance. I wanted to know if anybody else has
used these turbos and to offer my  personal experiences with them to anybody
who is interested.

Thanks,
John Paul Dauber
91 VR-4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 02:19:08 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gettin down low

Barry:

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
I do remember this part from previous discussions:

>Lowering (or raising) the
>suspension can also cause this situation depending upon the design of the
>suspension and steering mechanism.  Ideally the dreg link and tie rods (or
>equivalent mechanisms) should be parallel within the usable suspension
>range.  When these get out of whack bump steer can be more severe.

It was explained to me that if the car is so low that the suspension
components have gone beyond being parallel, and are pointing up instead of
down, that I can get bump steer. I'll have to check that out.
>
>Just for kicks, here's a bump steer gauge I found a while back when looking
>for alignment tools within reach of the average person:
>http://www.bakerprecision.com/102008.htm
>
$379 is out of MY reach.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:45:08 -0400
From: "Michael Dorsey" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gutting precatts and O2 sensor questions

I also have an OBDII car with 4 O2 sensors, 2 before and 2 after the
pre-cats.  Gutting the pre-cats has not caused any problems.  I haven't even
had so much as a flicker out of the check engine light.

Michael
98 VR4

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> [mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of RDO26@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 23:38
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Gutting precatts and O2 sensor questions
>
>
> Hey Guys.
>
> I'm planning on gutting my precats tommorrow. Thing is my car
> is a Cailfornia model with the 4 o2 sensors. I was wondering
> what gutting the precats will do to these sensors (and what
> if any code they might generate) as they are directly before
> and after both precats. What is the purpose of having this o2
> setup anyway? This car is a NA, BTW.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:04:23 -0400
From: Mark Creekmore <mcreekmore@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Very rich exhaust at idle - VR4

I'd think that it would read low. The question is how low. It wasn't low enough
that I noticed it, but I wasn't really looking. There's probably a fine line
between cold and warm. I think that mine was reading something like 12 - 18
degrees to low.

All I can tell you for sure is that they replaced it and I passed emissions.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

Mark

"Gross, Erik" wrote:

> > Check out the engine coolant temperature sensor. My stealth
> > failed emissions with hydrocarbons in the 400 range and that
> > was the problem.
>
> But if the temp sensor goes south, then wouldn't the temp gauge on the dash
> read low?  I thought that coolant temp was what the "Temp" gauge on the dash
> measured...  or am I smoking something?
>
> --Erik

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #452
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