team3s             Tuesday, March 13 2001             Volume 01 : Number 434




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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 04:55:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Do Octane Boosters Work?

Generally...no.

When they say a "Five point upgrade" it really means a difference of 92 to
92.5 octane..not 92 to 97.

Nothing beats simple common sense.  if your pump fuel only supports <x>
boost on a given day..then thats all you run.

Gottat spare car or 4 laying around like I do..THEN you can consider the
bleeding paper-cut edge.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 NassiriC@aol.com wrote:

> Hi All,
> I have a question about octane boosters - the kind you get in a bottle at the
> auto store.  I'm working on an after-market turbo application and I'm
> concerned about knock while I'm in the process of tuning and tweaking the
> car.  I'd like to know if anyone has first hand experience with the
> effectiveness of off-the-self octane boosters.  Do they really raise octane
> noticeably?  Does anyone have any before-and-after testimonials or brand
> recommendations.  I've heard some people say that you can raise 92-pump gas
> to around 96 - 98 with a bottle or two - this is all I need to be safe.  I've
> heard others say that you'll get only half a point at most - 92.5.  What's
> the truth here?  Does anyone have any scientific data/facts?  I'd really like
> to avoid having to buy race gas while I get the bugs worked out so any help
> here would be greatly appreciated.
>
> In case anyone's interested, I've put my VR-4 project on hold for a while -
> my fiancée bought a new Miata, imagine my delight when I found out you can
> turbo charge these little cars and make up to 300 streetable crank hp with no
> internal modifications.  Long story short my fiancée is now driving a turbo
> charged Miata.  These little motors can take 15 psi with all stock internals
> (9.5:1 compression).  My best run on the dyno so far was 239 wheel HP @ 13
> psi - that was without any tuning!  I'm trying to get it up to 15 psi, but I
> get indications of high speed knock, most people say 15 psi should be no
> problem with the Miata motor, so until if figure out what's causing knock, I
> want to play it safe and boost the octane.
>
> The Miata list was no help on this subject, just a lot of anecdotal stories
> about a friend of a friend that put a bottle of 104+ in their car and it now
> makes 200 more HP ...... this is why I'm asking you guys, I know I'll get a
> real answer here.
>
> If I have to run racing fuel, does anyone have any recommendations on a
> convenient/cheap source located in the SF Bay Area - East bay would be nice.
>
> BTW - my g-tech gives me a 0 - 60 of 5.3 seconds with a LOT of wheel spin in
> 1st and 2nd gear (still on stock tires), no quarter mile times yet.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Cyrus
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:12:47 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Do Octane Boosters Work?

I have a friend who has a Miata with a supercharger, but I didn't realize
there was a turbocharger for a Miata.

My son and I routinely use off-the-shelf octane booster at the track but
only one bottle per tank.  Race fuel is mighty expensive.  I ran last time
without the octane boost and my gas mileage was lousy, although I didn't
notice any knock.  I am only running 12.5 psi boost on my '93 with a manual
boost controller.  My son runs 15 psi boost and does not have knocking when
using octane boost.  The compression ratio for the VR4 is only like 8:1, I
think, so I'm guessing the Miata will need higher octane numbers for 9.5:1
at the same boost to preclude detonation.

Prepare yourself for the flood of replies from list members that know this
topic intimately.

By the way, when my son hears a car spinning it's wheels in 1st and 2nd gear
he says, "Humph, all I hear is inefficiency."

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: NassiriC@aol.com [SMTP:NassiriC@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 2:48 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Do Octane Boosters Work?
>
> Hi All,
> I have a question about octane boosters - the kind you get in a bottle at
> the
> auto store.  I'm working on an after-market turbo application and I'm
> concerned about knock while I'm in the process of tuning and tweaking the
> car.  I'd like to know if anyone has first hand experience with the
> effectiveness of off-the-self octane boosters.  Do they really raise
> octane
> noticeably?  Does anyone have any before-and-after testimonials or brand
> recommendations.  I've heard some people say that you can raise 92-pump
> gas
> to around 96 - 98 with a bottle or two - this is all I need to be safe.
> I've
> heard others say that you'll get only half a point at most - 92.5.  What's
>
> the truth here?  Does anyone have any scientific data/facts?  I'd really
> like
> to avoid having to buy race gas while I get the bugs worked out so any
> help
> here would be greatly appreciated.
>
> In case anyone's interested, I've put my VR-4 project on hold for a while
> -
> my fiancée bought a new Miata, imagine my delight when I found out you can
>
> turbo charge these little cars and make up to 300 streetable crank hp with
> no
> internal modifications.  Long story short my fiancée is now driving a
> turbo
> charged Miata.  These little motors can take 15 psi with all stock
> internals
> (9.5:1 compression).  My best run on the dyno so far was 239 wheel HP @ 13
>
> psi - that was without any tuning!  I'm trying to get it up to 15 psi, but
> I
> get indications of high speed knock, most people say 15 psi should be no
> problem with the Miata motor, so until if figure out what's causing knock,
> I
> want to play it safe and boost the octane.
>
> The Miata list was no help on this subject, just a lot of anecdotal
> stories
> about a friend of a friend that put a bottle of 104+ in their car and it
> now
> makes 200 more HP ...... this is why I'm asking you guys, I know I'll get
> a
> real answer here.
>
> If I have to run racing fuel, does anyone have any recommendations on a
> convenient/cheap source located in the SF Bay Area - East bay would be
> nice.
>
> BTW - my g-tech gives me a 0 - 60 of 5.3 seconds with a LOT of wheel spin
> in
> 1st and 2nd gear (still on stock tires), no quarter mile times yet.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Cyrus
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:15:27 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:Worn valve guides or bad turbo's?

That might have been my post :)

I was sure it was valve seals or some more complicated thing, but with
the suggestion of a few on this list, I looked into the turbo's more.
Best thing to do would be to take your downpipe off, and see WHICH
side SMOKES. This way you have it down to one bank or another (unless
you are really unlucky, and have both messed up :)

I found the front bank to be smoking, which is easier to work on. Then
I took off all IC piping related to the front turbo, and found it to
be much oilier than the rear turbo (this means, the oil was coming
from before the head itself, yeay!). I swapped in a fresh turbo and my
smoke problem went away! Just to do it, I swapped the rear turbo too,
since they both were in parallel on these cars.

I think the problem all occured from someone installing a new front
turbo on the car before I bought it. One of the three bolts was
missing on the manifold/turbo collector (yes, held on by 2 bolts), and
the return line gasket had orange RTV around it. What seemed to have
happened is, when they RTV'd the lower oil return line to the oil pan,
the RTV squished on all sides, outside, AND INSIDE. This almost
"closed" the hole meant for oil to drain easily using gravity.

This probably built up oil pressure inside the turbo, where it's not
meant to be that high, and leaked into both the exhaust and compressor
sides. The turbo I took off spins very nicely, and no damage is done
to it, except for the blown seals.

Vinny Singh
http://www.kaizentuning.com/
http://manualcd.dsm.org/ - DSM & 3/S Service manuals on CDROM

> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 06:50:23 -0500
> From: <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
> Subject: Team3S: Worn valve guides or bad turbo's?
>
> My 95 VR-4 has a problem where the car will smoke after idling then
> moving.(i.e stopping at a light, then moving when it turns green.)
It is
> usually a puff of blueish smoke so I've determined it is oil. Again
this
> only happens I've idled for a bit. However when driving, there are
no signs
> of smoke.
>
> Compression test done on my car has shown good compression in all
cylinders,
> so I have ruled out the possibility of worn rings or valve seals.
>
> After doing some research, I have found that my problem may be  worn
valve
> guides. I was certain this was my problem since I've learned this is
a
> common problem in our cars, and my car seemed to have the symptoms.
With
> 98,000 miles on my car I wouldn't be surprised.
>
> But, after doing some more research I found a post from someone who
swore he
> had worn guides also, but it turned out to be one of his turbo's. He
said
> oil in the i/c pipes was a clear indication of this and that
replacement of
> his turbo's solved his problem.
>
> There happens to be oil in my i/c piping also. Now what I'm trying
to do is
> find out what exactly is causing me to smoke after idling, before I
spend
> major $$$ and reduce the chance of fixing the wrong thing.
>
>  Anyone have any suggestions/ideas?
>
> One last thing, suppose it is the valve guides. Would I be able to
just pull
> the head off and send it to a machine shop to get the guides fixed?
Also
> I've heard something about the clearances for the guides being too
big?  If
> so what do I do to remedy?



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:23:45 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: FYI: Tire Size Info

I talked to the Tire Rack guys this morning about size recommendations for
3000GTs with 16x8 or 17x8.5 rims.

What they said:

* 3000GTs (base models) are "notoriously under-tired"
* On ??x8.5" rims, the widest recommended is 245 for track use
* On ??x8" rims, 245/??/?? are FINE for track
* 245/??/?? can go on 7" to 8.5" rims and be "OK"
* Larger than 245/??/?? tires on 17x8.5" rims may have
fender/suspension clearance issues
* Firestone Firehawk SZ50EP replaces SZ50, treadwear is now
340; it was 220.  Handling and wet traction are better and
more consistent with wear.


What I make of this:

* If you stick with stock 16x8 rims, use 245/50/16s
* If you use 17x8.5 rims, use 245/45/17 for track
* If you don't have fitment issues, 255s would be ok for track
on 8.5" rims
* If you use 17x8.5 for drag racing or don't corner hard,
you might want to look at 265 or 275
* Firehawk tires:  I got 21,000 miles out of the old ones,
so I could possibly get 32,000 street miles out of the
new ones. YAY!

Questions:
I know of at least 1 person who runs 255/40/17s on 17.5" rims on a
VR-4.  Anyone with a base/SL have 255s?  Do they fit?  Is there any reason
they would fit on a VR-4 and not on a base model? I think the dimensions on
the front suspension and wheel well are almost the same...

Thanks!
- --Erik

- ------                                             ----------
Erik Gross                                         DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC, 5-speed)          76,000 mi
   BALD Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
   AGING Stock Suspension
SOON: Firehawk SZ50EP 2?5/40/17 tires on 17" StealthTT wheels
SOON: Aftermarket Springs/Shocks/Struts (GC/GAB?)
   Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
   K&N FIPK, Mobil 1 10W30 w/ OEM oil filter, Skippy PCV CC
'94 Algae Blue "fun to slide around corners" Corolla 74,000mi
- -------------------------------------------------------------



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:45:46 -0500
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Here's what's up with GAB shocks/struts:

>
>"If you're not dead set on GAB, we carry KYB and in case you didn't
>know, KYB makes GAB then puts their name on it and charges more!"
>
>I'm gonna check on that...  is that right?  Can't be...
>

No way in Hell is that right.

I've owned 2 sets of KYB for my Stealth (base), and they are crap.  I went
through both sets in about 15k miles each.
I have a set GABs all the way around, and they are definitely better, not to
mention completely different (adjustable vs non-adjustable).
I had a rear set of KYB for about 40k, then the spring perch rusted off
while I was driving.  Luckily it was at low speed.


I will never buy a set of KYB again, nor would I ever recommend anyone to do
so either, unless he/she had a death wish.

Regards,
   Dennis Bretton
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:37:04 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: How do you determine optimal spring rates?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jose Soriano [mailto:Amahoser@linkline.com]
>
> I'd suggest calling Jay (owner) at ground control
> and just asking for a suggestion for a baseline. Tell him
> what you wanna do with your car and how "race stiff"
> you won't mind.

Cool, that's what I planned on doing - I just wanted to bounce some ideas
around first so I can talk with him somewhat intelligently :)  Still pretty
green here.


> Remeber, if you do plan on track driving your car, one of the best
> investments to make is going to a competent race shop.

Yep, if this ends up being more than an occasional track day here and there,
I'll be doing that.


> Run your car at the track and see how it feels.

That's where I'm headed, and normally I'd probably run it a while before
playing with it, but a couple of things prevent me from doing that...  1)
worn shocks/struts that need to be replaced  and 2) almost bald tires that
need to be replaced.

As for the shocks/struts, since the GABs aren't that much more than stock
parts, I figure I'll get the GABs.  Also, since getting the ground control
kit would keep me from having to mess with a spring compressor (don't have
to disassemble the stock strut/shock/spring assemblies), I figured while I'm
at it, I'd install the GC kit.  Thus the springs questions...

As for tires, I just sent another post about that, so I won't repeat it
here.

Thanks for the advice and comments!
- --Erik


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:45:46 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Here's what's up with GAB shocks/struts:

The KYB factory indeed does make GAB shocks.  However, the KYB versions are
not in the same league as the GABs.  The GABs are speced differently and
although the premium may not be totally justified, there is a quality
difference between KYB and similar GABs.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----

<snipped>

> "If you're not dead set on GAB, we carry KYB and in case you didn't
> know, KYB makes GAB then puts their name on it and charges more!"
>
> I'm gonna check on that...  is that right?  Can't be...


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:27:24 -0900
From: "Charles J. Williams" <cwilliam@gci.net>
Subject: Team3S: CD Changer Pin Out

Does anybody know what the pin out is for the stock 6 disk CD changer?  I
need to make a custom cable.  I assume that this has been done before but I
didn't have much luck with the site search engine.

Charles Williams
95 Stealth R/T Jet Black
Eagle River, AK 99577


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #434
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