team3s           Thursday, February 22 2001           Volume 01 : Number 415




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:20:51 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: RE: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC

We had an interesting thread about negative camber and specs a couple of
weeks ago.

- -1.5 degrees might be outside of spec (?-0.5 degrees max?), but it doesn't
"sound" excessive to me.

How much did you lower the car from stock?  Part of my problem being
concerned is that we lower our cars for the track and then raise them for
the street.  We are not seeing unusual tire wear patterns in either
application.

What is the front wheel camber measurement?

I'm assuming this is a VR4 with 18" wheels.

All tires are expensive nowadays!

Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Khang Hoang [SMTP:khanghoang@e247.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 3:07 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Cc: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I have heard that  excessive camber
> will wear your tires more quickly. Am I correct?  I lowered the car cuz I
> want to get rid of the big gap between the wheel and fender lip but still
> want to be able put a lots of miles on my tires. 18" tires are expensive
> nowaday :-0
> Thanks
> Ken
>
> >So what's wrong with that?  Negative camber is good!
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Khang Hoang [SMTP:khanghoang@e247.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:48 PM
> >> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> >> Subject: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC
> >>
> >> Just lowered my car with GC and now my rear camber are at -1.5 degree.
> Is
> >> there a fix for this?  Do they sell camber kit for the rear?
> >> If there is a fix anyone knows one in Washington DC area who would
> >> do it ?
> >> Thank
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> Get your free e24/7 email at http://www.e247.com
> >> Send & receive large files with 100MB of storage
> >>
> >> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
>
> Get your free e24/7 email at http://www.e247.com
> Send & receive large files with 100MB of storage

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:45:43 -0500
From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs <Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC

Wasn't there a trick to fix this?  Something about "oval-ing" the
mounting holes to get the camber closer to spec? 

I am gonna lower mine within the next year or so, and this was the fix I
was going to do.  For a daily driver, -0.5 to -1.0 should be the max you
need.  With this much negative camber, excessive wear should not be a
problem.
- --
Marc J. Jacobs Blue '94 VR-4
xDSL Hardware Development
Alcatel, USA     (919) 850-6386

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:13:31 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Will '93 VR4 exhaust fit on '94 VR4?

My Stillen pipe says 91-99 VR-4 on it and has different sets of bolt holes
in the flanges for the "differences" in model year.

Sam

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: 'xwing@execpc.com' <xwing@execpc.com>; Team3S <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Will '93 VR4 exhaust fit on '94 VR4?


>I don't even remember how much of the exhaust system I've got in the garage
>- I think it is only the dual tailpipe section, so the down pipes would
>remain in place.  Maybe if I'm lucky, the part that was cut will allow me
to
>install a telescoping section of tubing to properly adjust the length.
>Else, I guess I get to cut it again.  These things are stainless steel, so
I
>don't think I'll be welding anything.  I'm thinking of just clamping stuff
>together.  Think it'll work?
>
>Chuck
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xwing [SMTP:xwing@execpc.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:45 AM
>> To: Team3S
>> Subject: Team3S: Re: Will '93 VR4 exhaust fit on '94 VR4?
>>
>> The downpipes are different between 1st (5 speed) and 2nd (6 speed)
>> generations,
>>
>> and can't QUITE fit a 1st gen downpipe on a 2nd gen. properly...
>> and I THINK the length of the downpipe going back toward rear of car may
>> be
>> different too, so you may have a gap (or too much pipe) mating up to the
>> downpipe.
>> JT
>>
>> "Willis, Charles E." wrote:
>>
>> > Anybody out there know if the 1st generation VR4 exhaust will fit on
the
>> 2nd
>> > generation VR4?   My '94 has this aftermarket exhaust with a 12"
>> diameter
>> > resonator
>> > and a 4" diameter tailpipe.
>> > Chuck Willis
>>
>>
>> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:15:19 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: Team3S: My turbo failing??

I posted not too long ago about some problems I was having with overboost.
Well I've discovered that overboost only happens in 3rd and 4th gear. It'll
spike a little over 1.00bar, then drop to about .3bar and hold there.
However in the lower gears it'll never overboost, and it'll peak at .4bar
then hold a .3bar. I remember that it didn't used to that. The needle never
dropped under .5bar while under boost even in the lower gears.

So anyway I started playing with the thought that one of my turbos' might be
going south. Pulled of the two hoses that connect to the Y-pipe and found a
little oil in there. Then when I looked at the rear turbo, I noticed that
there was some oil sludge around the compressor outlet. Here are links to
some pics I took of it. Take a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.3000gtvr4.net/images/tech/turbo_fail1.jpg
http://www.3000gtvr4.net/images/tech/turbo_fail2.jpg
http://www.3000gtvr4.net/images/tech/turbo_fail3.jpg



Thanks in advance to all replies,

Michael Bulaon


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:23:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: My turbo failing??

Aren't those pics of the outside of the rear IC pipe? What does the
inside look like?

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: My turbo failing??



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:26:16 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: My turbo failing??

Will take a look in the morning just noticed it now. But I'm just trying to
figure out where all that sludge came from. Can't think of any other place
but the turbo. If it is, that can't be good, can it? If it's just as bad
inside, then it's safe to assume that something's wrong with that turbo?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:23 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: My turbo failing??


Aren't those pics of the outside of the rear IC pipe? What does the
inside look like?

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: My turbo failing??



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:32:12 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo questions

After hearing everyone talk about reading Corky Bells book 'Max Boost', I
actually did so.  In it it clearly explains the practical method of choosing
turbos for an app. with some quicky formulas for figuring out A/R P/R and
cfm ratings.  It shows how to read the flow maps etc.  My question is this.
I once read that our heads flow about 400cfm (each?).  If thats the max our
heads can flow, anymore from a turbo would be wasted unless we could rev
much higher then 7400rpm.  Also, 15psi is about all one can push with a CR
of 8:1 and 93 octane.  So, after pressure losses through the system, we need
a turbo that flows at least 18 psi to redline in its efficiency Island and
can pump 400 or so cfm.  Now heres the question.  If the turbos available to
bolt on (no mod) leaves us with the stock turbo exhaust housing meant for a
lower flowing compressor (cold side), but we increase the compressor side to
say a 17g wheel, aren't we losing power by trying to squeeze more air
through this small orifice creating more heat?  Can this exhaust side be
fixed by porting?  Is this already done on say a 357 magnum or similar
turbo?  When people are busy making all these hybrids, wouldn't an analysis
of our system give these turbo designers exactly what they need to make a
turbo that is perfect for street /track/ and drag uses?  Just wondering what
the problem is.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs <Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com>
To: Team3S <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC


>Wasn't there a trick to fix this?  Something about "oval-ing" the
>mounting holes to get the camber closer to spec?
>
>I am gonna lower mine within the next year or so, and this was the fix I
>was going to do.  For a daily driver, -0.5 to -1.0 should be the max you
>need.  With this much negative camber, excessive wear should not be a
>problem.
>--
>Marc J. Jacobs Blue '94 VR-4
>xDSL Hardware Development
>Alcatel, USA     (919) 850-6386
>
>***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:38:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: My turbo failing??

Hmmm, possibly just a leak in the oil supply line (it's on top)? My
supply line leaked at the connection after the rebuild. I got in
there with a flare-nut wrench (14 mm maybe?) and tightened it up (no
easy way to use a torque wrench so be careful), leak stopped. Mitsu
does sell some parts that go in the fitting that may save replacing
the entire supply line if that is the problem and tightening doesn't
help.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: My turbo failing??

Will take a look in the morning just noticed it now. But I'm just
trying to figure out where all that sludge came from. Can't think of
any other place but the turbo. If it is, that can't be good, can it?
If it's just as bad inside, then it's safe to assume that something's
wrong with that turbo?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:23 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: My turbo failing??

Aren't those pics of the outside of the rear IC pipe? What does the
inside look like?

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 4:15 PM
Subject: Team3S: My turbo failing??


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:38:08 -0500
From: Michael Reid <mreid@magma.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Stealth and 3000GT production numbers/Paint Codes...

>I was wondering if you could do the same for my car.

I've replied off list.


>I am looking forward to knowing exactly how "rare" my car is.

Common question. I'll post the Windows utilities and their source code
on a website within the next week or so, so others can make ad-hoc queries.


>It would be cool to make a website that the user could enter the VIN,
>and it would extract this data for the user automatically.

Yes, but website CGI scripts etc. are a hassle. The utilities and CAPS will
work for anyone really interested in ad-hoc queries, and a bunch of web-pages
could list VINs and their data for those who just need to query for 1 car.

All the 3S VIN data (~153,000 cars) could take as little as 8-9 Megabytes
and should probably be split up for casual web access. I wonder if there are
any privacy or data ownership problems here though. I don't want Mitsu to
demand
removal of the CAPS program or this program from the website...



Regarding the possible automatic transmission Stealth TT's:

Someone ran the VIN's through CarFax and neither appears to have
ever been sold. I'm almost certain these were pre-production models
of some sort.


Regarding the "Stealthily" invisible 95 Stealth Turbos's:

It appears these DO exist, with proper 95 VIN codes, but not one
of them appears in Mitsu's CAPS database. I did a "Missing VIN"
analysis and found that 550 more VINs than usual were missing
for 95. So I suspect that about 550 1995 Stealth Turbo's were
produced, but Mitsu lost the data or never entered their VINs.

I also found that some 3500 VINs are missing from 1991, and
about 561 VINs are missing from 97. All other years have normal
levels of missing VINs, usually within the first 100. Ahh, the
horrors of incomplete and partly mangled data... :)


Exterior Paint Color Codes:

The Mitsu option codes and interior codes still remain a mystery,
but the exterior paint color code analysis is underway. Perhaps
someone could help some with these paint codes in the database:

Some of these color code names are a guess, if you see an error
please send me private email ( mreid@magma.ca ). Note that most
of these codes are different than the codes you may find elsewhere,
such as the sales order forms or the codes I've seen posted from
the manual/CD. Some codes seem related, like "RA8" and "R38" for red.

I've only looked at the TT and VR-4 codes yet.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----

91 Stealth TT colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Firestorm Red       RA8     1048
Jet Black           XA4     698
Pearl White?        WA5     748
Bright Blue?        TA7     235                         Fiji Blue Metallic ?
Light Beige?        SA2     40                          Wheat Beige Metallic ?
Red?                RA5     154                         Kutani Red Pearl ?
Turquoise?          TA2     93                          Napier Blue Metallic ?
- ----------------------------------
All                         3016


92 Stealth TT colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Firestorm Red       RA8     1319
Jet Black           XA4     753
Pearl White?        WA5     951
Emerald Green?      GA4     763         New for 92
Bright Blue?        TA7     327                         Fiji Blue Metallic ?
Light Beige?        SA2     242                         Wheat Beige Metallic ?
- ----------------------------------
All                         4355


93 Stealth TT colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                RA1     353         New for 93 ?
Jet Black           XA4     208
White?              WA9     228         New for 93 ?
Emerald Green?      GA4     293
Pearl Blue?         BA4     135         New for 93 ?
Dark Blue Pearl?    HA8     82          New for 93 ?
- ----------------------------------
All                         1299


94 Stealth TT colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     184
Jet Black           X94     119                         Lamp Black
Brilliant White?    W29     138                         (Includes
JB3AN74K6RY000029   MQGFL2D)
Emerald Green Pearl?G84     170
Dark Blue Pearl?    H28     43
Pearl Yellow?       Y99     235                         (Includes
JB3AN74K6RY000028   MQGFL7D
Pearl Blue?         B34     35
- ----------------------------------
All                         924


96 Stealth TT colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     19
Greyish White Pearl?W75     17                          Galaxy White Pearl
Emerald Green Pearl?G84     8
?                   L79     6
Amethyst?           A26     3                           Dodge Exclusive 96
color ?
Amethyst?           P82     4
- ----------------------------------
All                         57




91 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Firestorm Red       RA8     1242
Jet Black           XA4     684
Pearl White?        WA5     760
Bright Blue?        TA7     214                         Fiji Blue Metallic ?
Light Beige?        SA2     81                          Wheat Beige Metallic ?
Red?                RA5     293                         Kutani Red Pearl ?
Turquoise?          TA2     129                         Napier Blue Metallic ?
Red?                R25     1
Black?              X94     1
?                   W2D     1
?                   R38     1
?                   S22     1
Unknown             ?       285 Color Data is missing
- ----------------------------------
All                         3693


92 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Firestorm Red       RA8     1478
Jet Black           XA2     787
Pearl White?        WA5     983
Emerald Green?      GA4     460         New for 92
Bright Blue?        TA7     214                         Fiji Blue Metallic ?
Red?                RA5     344                         Kutani Red Pearl ?
?                   HA4     294
?                   HA9     387
- ----------------------------------
All                         4947


93 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                RA1     868         New for 93 ?
Jet Black           XA2     398
White?              WA9     504         New for 93 ?
Emerald Green?      GA4     566
Red?                RA5     122                         Kutani Red Pearl ?
Dark Blue Pearl?    HA9     136         New for 93 ?
Firestorm Red       RA8     1
- ----------------------------------
All                         2595


94 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     383
Jet Black           X94     264
Brilliant White?    W29     315
Emerald Green Pearl?G84     339
Pearl Blue?         B34     126
Amethyst?           P03     68
Pearl Yellow?       Y99     155
- ----------------------------------
All                         1650


95 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     409
Jet Black           X94     280
White?              W75     276                         Galaxy White Pearl
Emerald Green Pearl?G84     200
Pearl Blue?         B34     49
Amethyst?           P03     55
Pearl Yellow?       Y99     42
- ----------------------------------
All                         1311


96 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     90
Black?              X08     71
White?              W75     76                          Galaxy White Pearl
Emerald Green Pearl?G84     50
Pearl Blue?         B34     7
?                   L79     1
Amethyst?           P82     19
Unknown             ?       1 Color Data is missing
- ----------------------------------
All                         315


97 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     166
Black?              X08     150
White?              W75     110                         Galaxy White Pearl
Green?              G84     71
?                   L79     9
Pearl Blue?         B34     4
- ----------------------------------
All                         510


98 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     70
Black?              X08     71
White?              W75     70                          Galaxy White Pearl
Green?              G13     20
- ----------------------------------
All                         231


99 VR-4 colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Red?                R71     82
Black?              X08     103
White?              W75     86                          Galaxy White Pearl
Green?              G13     16
- ----------------------------------
All                         287



95 & 96 VR-4 Spyder colors:
- ----------------------------------
Color               Code    Number
- ----------------------------------
Firestorm Red       R71     510
Jet Black           X94     140                         Lamp Black
Brilliant White?    W75     127                         Galaxy White Pearl
Pearl White/Blue??  X08      84
Pearl Yellow?       Y99      14
Midnight Green?     G84       2
- ----------------------------------
All                         877



Here's a list I got from the archives, with some
cross-reference info to the codes above:

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------
This is from page 106 of the Body.pdf from Vineet's Manual on CD and should
list all colors for US 3000GT/Stealths:

(M): Metallic paint
(P): Pearl tone paint

Body color: White
Body color code: W20                            Not used on 3/S Turbo's.
Color number: AC1 0920
Body color name: Super Pure White
Engine/luggage color number: AC 10955
Engine/luggage color name: White

Body color: White
Body color code: W75                            Used on 3/S Turbo's.
Color number: AC1 0875
Body color name: Galaxy White (P)
Engine/luggage color number: AC 10863
Engine/luggage color name: White

Body color: Lamp Black
Body color code: X94                            Used on 3/S Turbo's.
Color number: AC10894
Body color name: Lamp Black
Engine/luggage color number: AC1 0539
Engine/luggage color name: Dark Gray

Body color: Red
Body color code: R25                            Not used on 3/S Turbo's.
See RA5.
Color number: AC1 0925
Body color name: Kutani Red (P)
Engine/luggage color number: AC1 0632
Engine/luggage color name: Maroon

Body color: Red
Body color code: R38                            Not used on 3/S Turbo's.
See RA8.
Color number: AC1 0938
Body color name: Passion Red
Engine/luggage color number: AC1 0795
Engine/luggage color name: Red

Body color: Light Beige
Body color code: s22                            Not used on 3/S Turbo's.
See SA2.
Color number: AC1 0922
Body color name: Wheat Beige (M)
Engine/luggage color number: AC1 0956
Engine/luggage color name: Light Beige

Body color: Turquoise
Body color code: T72                            Not used on 3/S Turbo's.
See TA2.
Color number: AC1 0872
Body color name: Napier Blue (M)
Engine/luggage color number: AC1 0898
Engine/luggage color name: Turquoise

Body color: Bright Blue
Body color code: T87                            Not used on 3/S Turbo's.
See TA7.
Color number: AC1 0887
Body color name: Fiji Blue (M)
Engine/luggage color number: AC1 0823
Engine/luggage color name: Blue


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------

Mike.
94 TT.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:41:06 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: My turbo failing??

> Pulled of the two hoses that connect to the Y-pipe and found a
> little oil in there. Then when I looked at the rear turbo, I noticed that
> there was some oil sludge around the compressor outlet.

Yes, this is really a lot but doesn't look like it is comming from the turbo
from my point of view. To proove, I'd remove the rear intercooling pipe and
check out the turbo outlet for its color. The behaviour sounds strange and
it may point to a defective turbo too. Take some pics of what you see inside
the y-pipe as wel las the compressor outlet.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:51:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo questions

Whoa! Two different air flows! The stock heads flow about 230 cfm
each according to some old Team3S posts. The air the heads flow is
*compressed* (when there is boost at the plenum). The rated air flow
for turbos is *uncompressed* air that enters the turbos. When the air
exits the turbo the volume is reduced and the temperature and density
are increased (hopefully). Volume is further reduced when the ICs
lower the temperature (and increase the density) - but hopefully with
little loss in pressure. At 7000 RPM, if the cylinders were to
completely fill with fresh charge (compressed or not), there would be
about 367 cfm of air flow. At 8000 RPM and 100% VE that number goes
up to about 420 CFM.

http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-primer.htm
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-air-fuel-flow.htm

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo questions

After hearing everyone talk about reading Corky Bells book 'Max
Boost', I actually did so.  In it it clearly explains the practical
method of choosing turbos for an app. with some quicky formulas for
figuring out A/R P/R and cfm ratings.  It shows how to read the flow
maps etc.  My question is this. I once read that our heads flow about
400cfm (each?).  If thats the max our heads can flow, anymore from a
turbo would be wasted unless we could rev much higher then 7400rpm.
<snip>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:22 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: Khang Hoang <khanghoang@e247.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC

First I'd like to thank you all for replying.  The problem is that there is a fix such as elongate the mounting hole, bend/shorten the lower control arm but to find someone to perform this fix is next to impossible in my area.  Dave, I've tried CDR Motorsport and suggested him the fix listed above but he refused to do it.  I've tried
Firestone, Pepboys, Avellinos Tires, NTB, backyard garages you name it ,  to see if they would perform this fix for me.  They all say no.  Now I feel like buying a torch and do it myself!!!  Firestone was able to bring the front back to specs but not the rear.  They  mentioned
that my rear toe adjustment bolts froze so they couldn't really adjust the toe.  I asked them if they tried to heat it up with a torch and they said it's too close to the gas tank thus it's not safe to do so.  I bet if they could break the toe adjustment bolts loose, they could  reduce my negative camber abit. Am I right?  I'm don't know much about the relationship between toe and camber. By the way my car is 94 GT base
with 18" aftermarket rims.  I guess -1.5 camber is not that serious but I prefer to stay within specs.  Also I think my tires are unidirectional so
I can only rotate front to back and vice versa but not cross like this pattern "X" if you know what I mean. Well, thanks again
Ken

This info is from the computer printout

           LF                                                RF
Actual       Range                        Actual             Range
- -0.2        -.5 to .5      Camber        -0.3            -0.5 to 0.5  
 .02          -.12 to .12   Toe            -.03            -.12 to .12

           LR                                                 RR
Actual        Range                        Actual            Range
- -1.2          -.5 to .5      Camber       -1.6             -.5 to .5
- -.59          -.08 to .12   Toe           -.85             -.08 to .12





>Wasn't there a trick to fix this?  Something about "oval-ing" the
>mounting holes to get the camber closer to spec? 
>
>I am gonna lower mine within the next year or so, and this was the fix I
>was going to do.  For a daily driver, -0.5 to -1.0 should be the max you
>need.  With this much negative camber, excessive wear should not be a
>problem.
>--
>Marc J. Jacobs Blue '94 VR-4
>xDSL Hardware Development
>Alcatel, USA     (919) 850-6386
>
>***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:57:26 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject: Team3S: More Turbo Questions: Kick Back Problem

Okay, after all the information I've been seeing go through this list in the past week or so I've come up with a number of questions myself about turbos and our cars; especially help in troubleshooting a problem with my car, which I'll get to first.  To keep it from being a long email, I'll send my questions out in parts and hope I get responses.

I just purchased my 1994 VR-4 and I've noticed that when I'm stopped at a sign/light or in traffic, and I shift into first gear, that my car "kicks back" I guess you could say.  It feels almost as though someone hit the back of my car doing say maybe 5 miles an hour.  I never ran into this problem with my Talon TSi and unfortunately I haven't managed to find a place I can reliably take my car into and have it checked out that's within driving distance.  I live in San Bernardino county (california) and I know GT-Pro is in the city of industry, but due to traffic its too much of a drive.  I've taken my car to be looked at by every Mitsu dealer within 50 miles of my home and each of them has always told me various things are wrong with the car.  I'm not stupid, I may not know this car very well, but I know cars quite well and I know when they're bull shitting me.  So I was wondering first if anyone can help me in diagnosing what this "kick back" in my car is being caused by and!
  how I can fix it?

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:01:20 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject: Team3S: More Turbo Questions: Turbo Cool Down

My next question is a direct result of some info I saw flying around about 2 weeks ago on the list.  I noticed a discussion about Turbo Timers and their usefulness.  With my Talon, I used a turbo timer, perhaps due to ignorance, I always thought it was the "way" to let my turbos spool down and cool off.  But in the discussion I noticed various people saying it's not the greatest way at all, and that a much better way to let your turbos spool/cool down is to "lazy drive" the car and take it easy during the last couple of minutes before you reach your destination.  So my question is this, can anyone define "lazy driving" for me?  Does that mean keep the turbos at no work (-10 psi), at no boost (0 psi) or its perfectly okay for them to do some work (1+ psi) as long as they're not doing work the whole way?  Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I just purchased this car and I'm finding modifications for it are much more difficult and expensive than my Talon.

John
1994 3000GT VR-4

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:04:13 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject: Team3S: Mods

Since I recently purchased my 1994 3000GT VR-4, I've learned from local shops (such as GT Pro) that mods to this car are much more expensive and more difficult to do than my Talon TSi (which I expected, but didn't think they'd be THIS much more difficult).  I don't plan on making this car so fast its not street legal, and I probably will never even take it to the track, I would however like it be my fastest car and my prized possession.  I was wondering what mods those of you gurus on this list would suggest I do to the car -- such as turbo timers, controllers, exhaust, intake, ignition, turbo chargers, etc?  Thanks in advance,

John
1994 3000GT VR-4

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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:06:57 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear Camber problem th GC

>e rear.  They  mentioned
>that my rear toe adjustment bolts froze so they couldn't really adjust the
toe.  I asked them if they tried to heat it up with a torch and they said
it's too close to the gas tank thus it's not safe to do so.  I bet if they
could break the toe adjustment bolts loose, they could  reduce my negative
camber abit. Am I right?

One has only a slight effect on the other, and the last thing you want is
positive toe back there.

> Also I think my tires are unidirectional so
>I can only rotate front to back and vice versa but not cross like this
pattern "X" if you know what I mean.

Don't believe everything you hear about unidirectional.
Besides, you can always swap the tires on the rims, and then swap the left
and right wheels. That will give you three rotates in all (front to rear,
swap all fours on the rims and swap side to side, then front to rear
again). Might even be a 4th rotate in their somewhere.

Rich/old poop

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:08:37 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject: Team3S: More Turbo Questions: Supercharger hybrids

Something else I ran across was the idea of a supercharger-turbocharger hybrid kit.  I may be totally inaccurate in what I'm about to say, which is that I've heard there are some supra, dsm, and even porsche parts that are useable on our cars.  In fact one of those being that I'm checking on using Getrag's trannies for the Porsche Carerras in our cars (still waiting to hear from them).  My dad owns a porsche Carerra and that was twin turbo and instead he found a custom fabrication for it with a hybrid supercharger-turbocharger setup.  It increased his horsepower by using a larger turbo and fairly good sized supercharger, made his car much quicker, and there is absolutely NO LAG at all in his car... and I mean none.  I was wondering if such a fabrication is in existence for our cars or if the thought of one has come up.  I know superchargers run off belts, thus making reducing lag to virtually nothing, which would allow us to use bigger turbos and hold more boost.  Does such !
 exist, or has it been thought of for our cars?  Or could we use such a thing from the custom porsche designs?

John
1994 3000GT VR-4

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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:14:40 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Turbo Questions: Kick Back Problem

>I just purchased my 1994 VR-4 and I've noticed that when I'm stopped at a
sign/light or in traffic, and I shift into first gear, that my car "kicks
back" I guess you could say.  It feels almost as though someone hit the
back of my car doing say maybe 5
>miles an hour. 

I suppose you've already ruled out the clutch. A clutch that does not fully
disengage could cause something like that.

Does it do the same if you shift into 2nd first, then 1st? Does it jump
even a little?

Rich/old poop/94 VR4



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:53:45 -0800 (PST)
From: adams john <johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: trip to the dealership fruitless

Hello, perhaps someone with patience is willing to
listen in
and give a little advice as I recently got my car back
from
a local dodge dealership in dallas - to diagnose (not
through warranty) a few
electronic symptoms of mine - and after two days they
returned
with a sorry, we just don't feel comfortable working
on the
vehicle. Well that's fine and understandable I
suppose, although
they said they didnt even have the shop manuals to do
any work!
The only thing they got around to doing was break off
the
power window control plate on the driver door and
leave it sitting
in the floorboard for me to discover. I certainly
wasn't going to wait
around another day while they "figured out some way of
getting it back in".

At any rate, enough venting, here is what my problem
is:

Most recently what sounds to be the MFI (fuel inj)
relay has been intermittently
going wacky and clicking with the engine also kicking
in and out. When i got the
car back it seemed fine, but the past few days it
would act up and then smoothen
out after a minute of driving or so. The rest of the
problem rundown is as follows,
which i posted before but w/o response:

- -power windows don't operate
- -headlight doors remain up
- -windshield Intermittent does not work (constant does
however)
- -cd and tape won't play - no sound from radio (fuse
good)
- -fan blower works only occasionally
- -idles a bit high (1050 in drive, ~1500 P/N)
- -actuating blinker causes the altemeter gauage needle
to
slightly bounce in response.

Obviously Im not expecting any miracles of far away
analysis,
but if this indicates a familiar problem to anyone -
perhaps
an underlying thread or connection - it would greatly
help. I realize
perhaps some of the mentioned components took a shock
or wore down and
dont operate as a consequence of it. Ive gone through
some aspects doing
obvious checks and what not - nothing supremely
thorough as of yet. And
I replaced the ECU and TCU, since the components
looked a bit in need of
it. Eventually I may take her into the mitsubishi
dealership - but my luck
is never good with such places it seems.

Thanks for your time, and thanks I hadnt gotten around
to giving to Marc Jacobs for sending instructions on
the tool fabrications.

john,
93 stealth es automatic

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:06:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: trip to the dealership fruitless

You need to call the district office, and raise holy hell with them.

Its thier fucking car..they need to know how to diagnose it OR read a damn
manual.

Yes..use those exact words.  I got serious mileage at Toyota once when
they got all stupid on "we dont feel comfortable working on your car
because of the modifications" when all I had was a K&N FIPK on it.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, adams john wrote:

>
> Hello, perhaps someone with patience is willing to
> listen in
> and give a little advice as I recently got my car back
> from
> a local dodge dealership in dallas - to diagnose (not
> through warranty) a few
> electronic symptoms of mine - and after two days they
> returned
> with a sorry, we just don't feel comfortable working
> on the
> vehicle. Well that's fine and understandable I
> suppose, although
> they said they didnt even have the shop manuals to do
> any work!
> The only thing they got around to doing was break off
> the
> power window control plate on the driver door and
> leave it sitting
> in the floorboard for me to discover. I certainly
> wasn't going to wait
> around another day while they "figured out some way of
> getting it back in".
>
> At any rate, enough venting, here is what my problem
> is:
>
> Most recently what sounds to be the MFI (fuel inj)
> relay has been intermittently
> going wacky and clicking with the engine also kicking
> in and out. When i got the
> car back it seemed fine, but the past few days it
> would act up and then smoothen
> out after a minute of driving or so. The rest of the
> problem rundown is as follows,
> which i posted before but w/o response:
>
> -power windows don't operate
> -headlight doors remain up
> -windshield Intermittent does not work (constant does
> however)
> -cd and tape won't play - no sound from radio (fuse
> good)
> -fan blower works only occasionally
> -idles a bit high (1050 in drive, ~1500 P/N)
> -actuating blinker causes the altemeter gauage needle
> to
> slightly bounce in response.
>
> Obviously Im not expecting any miracles of far away
> analysis,
> but if this indicates a familiar problem to anyone -
> perhaps
> an underlying thread or connection - it would greatly
> help. I realize
> perhaps some of the mentioned components took a shock
> or wore down and
> dont operate as a consequence of it. Ive gone through
> some aspects doing
> obvious checks and what not - nothing supremely
> thorough as of yet. And
> I replaced the ECU and TCU, since the components
> looked a bit in need of
> it. Eventually I may take her into the mitsubishi
> dealership - but my luck
> is never good with such places it seems.
>
> Thanks for your time, and thanks I hadnt gotten around
> to giving to Marc Jacobs for sending instructions on
> the tool fabrications.
>
> john,
> 93 stealth es automatic
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:05:12 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trip to the dealership fruitless

Look at the "security ECU"  located left of the steering wheel directly
behind the mirror switch.  233.00 retail. This controls, lights, wipers,
windows and I'm sure other items.

However with all the "problems" your car has, I tend to think you have a bad
ground somewhere,  various "unrelated" problems usually mean a bad chassis
ground.

Good luck.

Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of adams john
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:54 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: trip to the dealership fruitless


Hello, perhaps someone with patience is willing to
listen in
and give a little advice as I recently got my car back
from
a local dodge dealership in dallas - to diagnose (not
through warranty) a few
electronic symptoms of mine - and after two days they
returned
with a sorry, we just don't feel comfortable working
on the
vehicle. Well that's fine and understandable I
suppose, although
they said they didnt even have the shop manuals to do
any work!
The only thing they got around to doing was break off
the
power window control plate on the driver door and
leave it sitting
in the floorboard for me to discover. I certainly
wasn't going to wait
around another day while they "figured out some way of
getting it back in".

At any rate, enough venting, here is what my problem
is:

Most recently what sounds to be the MFI (fuel inj)
relay has been intermittently
going wacky and clicking with the engine also kicking
in and out. When i got the
car back it seemed fine, but the past few days it
would act up and then smoothen
out after a minute of driving or so. The rest of the
problem rundown is as follows,
which i posted before but w/o response:

- -power windows don't operate
- -headlight doors remain up
- -windshield Intermittent does not work (constant does
however)
- -cd and tape won't play - no sound from radio (fuse
good)
- -fan blower works only occasionally
- -idles a bit high (1050 in drive, ~1500 P/N)
- -actuating blinker causes the altemeter gauage needle
to
slightly bounce in response.

Obviously Im not expecting any miracles of far away
analysis,
but if this indicates a familiar problem to anyone -
perhaps
an underlying thread or connection - it would greatly
help. I realize
perhaps some of the mentioned components took a shock
or wore down and
dont operate as a consequence of it. Ive gone through
some aspects doing
obvious checks and what not - nothing supremely
thorough as of yet. And
I replaced the ECU and TCU, since the components
looked a bit in need of
it. Eventually I may take her into the mitsubishi
dealership - but my luck
is never good with such places it seems.

Thanks for your time, and thanks I hadnt gotten around
to giving to Marc Jacobs for sending instructions on
the tool fabrications.

john,
93 stealth es automatic

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:59:23 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Fuel Pump COMPARISON

I've gotten at least a couple questions on this so here is public post:

Yes.
Our cars, and many (like Supra) have a boost-sensing
fuel pressure regulator, that adds 1 psi of fuel pressure
per 1 psi boost.

So, if you are making 0psi boost, it adds 0 psi to the base
fuel pressure (43 lbs in our cars).
At 5 psi boost it adds 5 psi , so 48 psi fuel pressure.
at 20 psi boost it adds 20 psi, so 63 psi fuel pressure, etc.

This makes the fuel injector spray the same amount of
fuel at any certain duty cycle.  If the fuel pressure weren't
higher, the extra intake manifold pressure (INTO WHICH
the fuel injector is spraying) would have an EXTRA RESISTANCE
proportional to the boost, so with higher and higher boost the
injector would spray less and less fuel.

The extreme example would be:
Boost pressure = 43 psi; fuel pressure = 43 psi; with NO
boost compensation, NO FUEL would spray out because
the AIR pressure is equal to the FUEL pressure across the
injector!  With NO pressure differential across the fuel injector,
no fuel would flow.
Thus, add 1 psi fuel pressure for each 1 psi boost.
Boost sensing fuel pressure regulator.
Hope that  helps;
Jack

The Orsels wrote:

> Jack, fill me in will ya ?
> > They run fuel pressures of about 42-46 psi + boost, so at
> >20-25psi are running 62-71 psi fuel pressures!
> Does that mean at 20-25 lbs of boost you have the fuel pressure to the
> injectors go up ? How and why ?
> Hank 95tt

Mark William Hindelang wrote:

> so can you change the psi of the pump to output more fluid?
> im confused on this.. to up the boost, we need fuel computer and fuel pump and
> injectors.. so how do we make the fuel pump BLAST that stuff out.. is there a
> way to configure the psi of the pump for my current setup or, is that what the
> AFC does?
>
> > I have seen this fuelpump flow test, and it is IMO in question for three
> reasons,
> > at least:


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:24:31 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Mods

If you want to go 12's ("probably never even take it to the track" etc) then it certainly is NOT
expensive.   Just get a boost controller (from a bleeder valve at $3.50 or so, to an electronic
unit for $300-600); an air filter for $75-150; and an after-catalyst exhaust for $150-700...
there you are, in the 12's, for as little as $400.

Faster does cost more, but oh my do some people like spending money for little to no gain...
Intercooler/s:  Useless...unless long track racing in which case I'll allow they MAY help
(no data on that, just data that BIG/free flowing SIDEmounts such as Alamo's or HKS
did NOT help my ET/MPH at dragstrip AT ALL.  MAYbe a frontmount helps, but I
sure didn't have them for any of my records--they were all through stock intercoolers).

Supra fuel pump is good idea after the above simple 3 mods; good to take the car
to 120-125 mph quartermile speeds with proper other equipment.

Well, there are lots of "staged mods" pages and sites out there, just be leery of
anybody/place telling you you "need" an intercooler until you are IN the 11's or BETTER;
their eyes may be more on your pocketbook or too slavishly attentive to "their"
buildup scheme.
IMHO  :)
Jack Tertadian
10.81 @ 128.44mph  world's quickest dragraced 3S

John Stegall III wrote:

> I purchased 1994 3000GT VR-4, I've learned from local shops (such as GT Pro) mods are much more expensive/more difficult to do than my Talon TSi (which I expected, but didn't think they'd be THIS much more difficult).  I don't plan on making car so fast its not street legal, and probably will never take it to track, I'd like it be my fastest car/my prized possession.  I wonder what mods you gurus would suggest -- turbo timers, controllers, exhaust, intake, ignition, turbo chargers, etc?
> John    1994 3000GT VR-4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:39:01 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo questions

Yah okay, my numbers were guesses from memory, but the question still
remains and my 400 number was for all practical purposes the max number I
remember seeing at redline cause thats what you need to know to be sure your
turbo can flow that much,- right?.  What does a turbo that flows 800cfm each
do for me for our application?

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To: Team3S <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo questions


>Whoa! Two different air flows! The stock heads flow about 230 cfm
>each according to some old Team3S posts. The air the heads flow is
>*compressed* (when there is boost at the plenum). The rated air flow
>for turbos is *uncompressed* air that enters the turbos. When the air
>exits the turbo the volume is reduced and the temperature and density
>are increased (hopefully). Volume is further reduced when the ICs
>lower the temperature (and increase the density) - but hopefully with
>little loss in pressure. At 7000 RPM, if the cylinders were to
>completely fill with fresh charge (compressed or not), there would be
>about 367 cfm of air flow. At 8000 RPM and 100% VE that number goes
>up to about 420 CFM.
>
>http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm
>http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-primer.htm
>http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-air-fuel-flow.htm
>
>Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
>To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 12:32 PM
>Subject: Re: Team3S: turbo questions
>
>After hearing everyone talk about reading Corky Bells book 'Max
>Boost', I actually did so.  In it it clearly explains the practical
>method of choosing turbos for an app. with some quicky formulas for
>figuring out A/R P/R and cfm ratings.  It shows how to read the flow
>maps etc.  My question is this. I once read that our heads flow about
>400cfm (each?).  If thats the max our heads can flow, anymore from a
>turbo would be wasted unless we could rev much higher then 7400rpm.
><snip>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
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>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:30:50 -0800
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Turbo Questions: Kick Back Problem

John,

This is a somewhat common problem with our cars, and I have found this to be an example of what happens when you have a little too much play in the driveshaft.

Regards,

Dan J
94 Stealth TT

>>> John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com> - 2/21/01 4:57 PM >>>
Okay, after all the information I've been seeing go through this list in the past week or so I've come up with a number of questions myself about turbos and our cars; especially help in troubleshooting a problem with my car, which I'll get to first.  To keep it from being a long email, I'll send my questions out in parts and hope I get responses.

I just purchased my 1994 VR-4 and I've noticed that when I'm stopped at a sign/light or in traffic, and I shift into first gear, that my car "kicks back" I guess you could say.  It feels almost as though someone hit the back of my car doing say maybe 5 miles an hour.  I never ran into this problem with my Talon TSi and unfortunately I haven't managed to find a place I can reliably take my car into and have it checked out that's within driving distance.  I live in San Bernardino county (california) and I know GT-Pro is in the city of industry, but due to traffic its too much of a drive.  I've taken my car to be looked at by every Mitsu dealer within 50 miles of my home and each of them has always told me various things are wrong with the car.  I'm not stupid, I may not know this car very well, but I know cars quite well and I know when they're bull shitting me.  So I was wondering first if anyone can help me in diagnosing what this "kick back" in my car is being caused by and!
  how I can fix it?

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:26:43 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods

John,

I think in the hands of a capable driver or one who has learned the AWD
correctly a stock 3/S car vs. a stock Talon TSi is no match.  Modify your
Talon to the point that it is comparable to a 3/S and THEN you can have some
fun.  That still means that the 3/S is going to remain stock.  It just has
meaner and beefier stuff to begin with so upgrading them is more expensive
(top of the line parts that are no longer in production) but yield better
performance.

Okay, now for the non-technical stuff.  How are you comparing what car is
fastest?  In a drag race I don't think anybody will ever beat a
nicely-modified Talon except someone who is getting near 1,000-hp out of the
stock motor (I've sworn not to say who this is until it happens and is
documented).  And since I am not a fan of a 4,000-pound car ever being able
to win a drag race without blowing up some parts ... I suggest you take some
time trials on those twisty roads and see which car wins.  It should be the
3/S car (bigger turbos, brakes, better cooling, etc.) but sometimes it will
feel slower yet yield a faster time.

Of course, there are reasons why everyone Rally Races the Talon and Eclipse
and not a Stealth or 3000GT.  *bog*  My racing will be limited to open
tracks I suppose.

Good luck.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com <mailto:dschilberg@freemarkets.com>

1995 VR-4 getting set up for road racing in hopes of beating a
nicely-modified, smaller, lighter, and more agile M3

- -----Original Message-----
From: John Stegall III [mailto:john.stegall@e247.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:04 PM

I would however like it be my fastest car and my prized possession.  I was
wondering what mods those of you gurus on this list would suggest I do to
the car -- such as turbo timers, controllers, exhaust, intake, ignition,
turbo chargers, etc?  Thanks in advance,


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