team3s           Tuesday, February 20 2001           Volume 01 : Number 413




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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:25:53 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: DSM SHOOTOUT ENTRY LIST Updated 2-19-01

DSM SHOOTOUT July 20-22 2001 List of Entrants So Far, Update 2-19-2001--

Norwalk Raceway Park, Norwalk Ohio
Sponsor: Buschur Racing

Our Shootout is on Friday July 20; Autocross July 21; ALL IMPORT
Shootout on July 22.
If you have info/missing/needing change, email ME DIRECT
xwing@execpc.com
You can post info here, or (better) at http://64.39.19.113/ (the "Track
Times" board on 3SI),
? denotes not sure if coming. Info needed:

1)Your full name + "3SI nickname"
2)Car/color/Shop (if associated with one)
3)City/State of origin
4)Hotel you're staying at
5)email

1 Aaron "zentelis", 94 RT/TT, Hanover PA
2 Ryan Alavi "StreetRacer", 95 VR4 black Altered Atmosphere, Bowie MD,
GTeklnc@aol.com
3 Shaun Atkinson "Yellow ES", 92 Stealth ES yellow, Farmersville OH,
4 Dave Best "Dave Best", 92 VR4 maroon, Kingstown VA, Amerihost Suites,
WDB039@erols.com
5 Brian Bochenek, 93 VR4 black Altered Atmospheres/ Alamo Motorsports,
New Britain CT, badblackVR4@snet.net
6 Terry Bosserman "black95rttt", 95RT/TT Dynamic Racing/GT Pro, Findlay
OH, black95rttt@hotmail.com
7 Brian "allengineSL", 95 3000GT SL, Chicago IL
8 ?Bruce "Bruce", 95 VR4 red, Granada Hills CA
9 Joe Canella, 96 VR4 Spyder Altered Atmosphere, MD
10 Wayne Carickhoff "WAYNECAR", 95 VR4 yellow, Harrisonburg VA,
TTAWD@aol.com
11 ?Scott Cowan, 92 VR4 black P1pedream Motorsports, Waukesha WI,
sjcOu812@juno.com
12 Eric Doerr, 93RT/TT white Altered Atmosphere, MD
13 Shawn Enz, 94 3000GT SL, Philadelphia PA, EnzS@towers.com
14 Hans Ertl "Hans91GT", 91 3000GT, + 92 RT/TT Ground Zero Performance,
hertl@snip.net
15 Mike Feryok "MikeF", 92 RT/TT white, Detroit MI
16 ?Rob Flynn "akira410", 92 VR4 white + 97 VR4 white, Irvine CA
17 "igots2", 92 VR4
18 Joe Gonsowski "JoeG", 92 RT/TT GTPro/GK Racing, Westland MI,
twinturbo@mediaone.net
19 Rick Hawley "Huntervr4", 93 VR4 green, Greenwood IN,
TT_3KGT@hotmail.com
20 Matt Jannusch "mjannusch", 95 VR4 Spyder white, Minneapolis MN,
mjannusch@marketwatch.com
21 ?J.B., 94 3000GT SL TT Altered Atmosphere
22 Jeff "mr2turb", 95VR4, Columbus OH
23 Jim Juliff, 92 RT/TT black, Lenexa KS, Amerihost Suites,
jejuliff@yahoo.com
24 Trent Karr "TKarr", 93 RT/TT, Wyomissing PA
25 Jim Kielma, RT/TT, Cudahy WI, jkielma@aol.com
26 Jeff Lucius "Jeff Lucius", 92 RT/TT red, Golden CO, Ramada Ltd,
jlucius@stealth316.com
27 Shawn MacArthur "BigBadVR4", 92VR4 black GT Pro, Shawnmac@usa.net
28 Mike Mahaffey "Lotoboost", 94 Stealth + 96 VR4 Altered Atmosphere,
29 Omar Malik "ojm", 92 RT/TT or 92 TT Ground Zero Performance,
Philadelphia PA, ojm@iname.com
30 "Mellon", 91RT/TT white
31 Dan Mercier "DanM_94_VR4", 94 VR4 green 3SX Automotive Technology/GT
Pro, Louisville KY, dan@3sxperts.com
32 Matt Monett "snakeskinner", 93 RT/TT white Dynamic Racing/GT Pro, NM
33 Nino "hated", 91 RT/TT "The Lab", San Diego CA, Super 8 Hotel,
hated@hotmail.com
34 Anthony Ng "Antmay", 95 VR4, Rocky River OH, anthony.ng@onbase.com
35 Shawn M. O'Connor "soc3GT95basn20", 95 3000GT n/a red, Charlotte NC
36 Oskar, RT/TT white, Minneapolis MN, Osk@mediaone.net
37 Pete Palamara "palamarap", 92 VR4 blue Action Turbo/Altered
Atmosphere, Greenwood Village CO, pala@gwl.com
38  "pokey293", 91 VR4 Dynamic Racing/GTPro, Phoenix AZ
39 "Racer X", RT/TT, Stockbridge GA
40 Jetinder Raja "Raja", 94 VR4 yellow, Lawrence KS
41 Greg Rush "rushvr4", 92 VR4 silver, Cincinnati OH, rush@siscom.net
42 Ryan "Shadowfax", 92 RT/TT
43 Ryan "PriOityp", 94 SL
44 James S. "James S", 94 RT/TT yellow, Rockford IL, FastYZFR6@aol.com
45 Darren Schilberg, 95 VR4 black, Pittsburgh, PA,
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com
46 Matt Schneider "Schneider80", 95 VR4 blue, Chicago IL,
matt@cbcast.com
47 Rob Schoen "rob", MI, rschoen@home.com
48 Vineet Singh, 92 RT/TT blue, Naperville IL, Econolodge or Best
Western, eagletek@ecanfix.com
49 Josh Slusher "Slush5", 91 Stealth SOHC blue/white, Celina OH,
Amerihost Inn, slush5@hotmail.com
50 Chris Smyrniotis "fierce" 92 RT/TT green GT Pro, Chicago IL,
TridentD5@aol.com
51 Jose Soriano "Amahoser", 91 RT/TT red GT Pro, Southern CA
52 Jack Tertadian "xwing", 94 VR4 red Atomic Motorsports, Oak Creek WI,
Econolodge, xwing@execpc.com
53 Charles Theiss, 94 RT/TT yellow Altered Atmosphere Bethesda MD,
StealthCT@aol.com
54 ?Trevor "Trevor" 96RT/TT red
55 Mike Tucker "1badVR4", 93 VR4 chameleon GT Pro, San Antonio TX
56 Kevin Umbreit "unclesam099", 91 RT blue, unclesam099@hotmail.com
57 Christian Williamson "daprguy", 91 RT/NA champaign GTPro, S. CA
58 Jeff Williamson "JeffW3000", 92 VR4 red, Belleville MI,
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com
59 Bob Witmer, 93 RT/TT, MI
60 Peter Yaghi "crazey", 96 VR4 white East Side Motorsports, Columbia
SC, Crazylc@hotmail.com

Number of people: 60
Number of Shops:  11 (Alamo Motorsports, Altered Atmosphere, Atomic
Motorsports, Dynamic Racing, East Side Motorsports, GKRacing, Ground
Zero Performance, GT Pro, The Lab, P1pedream Motorsports, 3SX
Engineering)
Number of Stealths: 29 (some have not listed their car, some have more
than one car)
Number of 3000GTs: 33

BEEEE THEEEEERRE!!!
Thanks!
Jack Tertadian, Atomic Motorsports  :)


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:38:59 +1300
From: Kenneth Wells <k.wells@morganbanks.co.nz>
Subject: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

I'm about to replace my stock rotors with Porterfield Cryo treated ones (As
they seem to be the recommended replacement).
I don't do any track racing, but drive quite hard on the winding open roads
over here in New Zealand. I've managed to eat 2-3mm into my stock rotors
with Hawk pads, so I've got a set of EBC kevlar pads (which have a very good
reputation in NZ) ready to go on with the new rotors.
My only problem at the moment is where to get the porterfields... their
web-site seems to be down, and I've searched the web for dealers, but no
luck.
Is crossdrilling or sloting recommended? I guess I like the idea because of
the look, but I'm really more interested in the performance.

Thanks for any info from anyone,
Kenneth Wells
'91 GTO TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:51:16 -0500
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: ID bad shocks/struts

Hello everyone,

I have a set of ECS shocks and struts from my '91 Stealth TT and was
wondering how to tell if they are in ok condition to sell.. They are off
of the car, as I have parted it out.  Any and all help appreciated =)

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:02:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

Porterfield you say..

Heres the Speedtoys.Com pricing on VR4 porterfield hardware.

These are for 2nd gen only.  I Can get 1st gen (obviously) but you SHOULD
upgrade to 2nd gen anyway *grin*

> > 1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4   List price:
> > Front Rotors JBR 785 $99.50*     $109
> > Rear Rotors JBR 786 $94.00*      $104
> > Front R4-S Pads AP 531 $57.00   $89
> > Rear R4-S Pads AP 631 $64.00    $99

I might be able to find another $10 off these, will find out tomorrow.

The additional following treatments are $40/ea per rotor:
Cryo (highly recommended)
Slotting (OK, but not required)
Drilling (Why bother..slot if you _must_ do something)


On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Kenneth Wells wrote:

> I'm about to replace my stock rotors with Porterfield Cryo treated ones (As
> they seem to be the recommended replacement).
> I don't do any track racing, but drive quite hard on the winding open roads
> over here in New Zealand. I've managed to eat 2-3mm into my stock rotors
> with Hawk pads, so I've got a set of EBC kevlar pads (which have a very good
> reputation in NZ) ready to go on with the new rotors.
> My only problem at the moment is where to get the porterfields... their
> web-site seems to be down, and I've searched the web for dealers, but no
> luck.
> Is crossdrilling or sloting recommended? I guess I like the idea because of
> the look, but I'm really more interested in the performance.
>
> Thanks for any info from anyone,
> Kenneth Wells
> '91 GTO TT
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:54:01 -0600
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

>Is crossdrilling or sloting recommended?

No. Crossdrilling will make them crack.
I don't know about slotting.

Better you don't fool with them. These are mighty rotors. I've been through
five sets of race pads and never warped them. After five sets, I did wear
them down to below recommended thickness. Rotors are, after all, a wear item.

To contact them, try:
 e-mail  timg@globalpac.com
 phone    949/548-7783
 fax:     949/548-7783
web site: www.porterfield-brakes.com

Try the site again. I just did, and it worked.
You may have left out the dash.

Rich/old poop



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:04:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

Also:

> > Full Case of Motul-600 $79.00
> > Full Case of Motul 5.1 $46.80

600 is best for racing IMHO.
5.1 is just as excellent, just not as heat resistant (race temps only are
a problem) but doesnt absorb water and require flushing as much as the
600. 

*should do a caliper volume flush after every serious track event*


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:01:55 -0600
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

At 08:04 PM 2/19/01 -0800, Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Also:
>
>> > Full Case of Motul-600 $79.00
>> > Full Case of Motul 5.1 $46.80
>
I don't know if you have U.S.-based Ford dealers there in NZ, but check
with them anyway to see if they carry Ford High Performance Brake Fluid.
It's the greatest bargain in racing: about $3 a pint and it has a 550 F
boiling point. Only problem: You GOTTA bleed the brakes before every track
event. It does not recover well from repeated boiling at the track like
Motul does, so you gotta keep replacing it. But, at $3 a pint, you can
replace a LOT of fluid.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:24:05 -0800
From: Ferry Holidjaja <tetu@surfcity.net>
Subject: Team3S: 19" Rims

Hi,
I have a question: Will 19" wheel fits on 3000GT base model ??
Thanks.

Yours,
Ferry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:09:42 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Windshield washer bottle in front bumper addition to 2G

Dan,

Thanks for the reply.  So, I know the ERL is the way to go now.

>1. The tank will fit the 2nd gen cars. Roger got one for me and it works
>great.
I'll wait for Roger to put up a webpage on where to get the washer tank.

>2. You can hook up a low level warning light. The tank has a hole in the
>bottom of it that will accept the float switch. The float switch is
>identical to the one for you windshield washer tank. I wired my own led
>warning lamp into the WI tank float switch.
I'll look into how much the float switch costs, and maybe I can splice the
wires from the new tank float switch to the old tank float swich.  Roger
mentioned that it is the same dashboard light that turns on when level is
low.

>3. The tank should fit the Stealth with no problem. The area under the
>bumper is the same on either car and this is where the tank mounts. I made
>up my own brackets to mount the tank as there are none there from the
>factory. It was very easy.
I'll have to look at the tank when I get it to see what brackets to make for
it.

>4. The ERL system that Roger and I use is the finest that I have seen on
the
>market. It isn't cheap but the system is of the highest quality. If you're
>interested in the ERL unit let me know. My company 3SX Automotive
>Technologies is a retail distributor for ERL.
How much does your company sell the unit for (either the ERL Aquamist System
1s or 2s)?  Is there any way I can get a discount through you, or does the
list get any slecial privileges with your company?  Do you have the ERL WI
1s or 2s system?

>5. Roger will have to help you with the part numbers for the tank and
filler
>tube. I can't seem to find them around here anywhere.
Roger is putting a webpage together with the part numbers and relevant info.

>Let me know if you would like to see some pictures of my WI installation.
That would be great.  I would appreciate you letting me see some pics of
your installation.

>Dan Mecier
>3SX Automotive Technologies
>www.3Sxperts.com
>1994 3000GT VR-4

- -MIKE-          aa2345@wayne.edu
95 Red VR4
Detroit Metro Area, Michigan


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:09:38 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Windshield washer bottle in front bumper addition to 2G

Roger,

>>   Do you know if I can
>>plug the "low light level" into my harness?
>
>Hmm, I do have the european manual too and I will check by comparing with
>the US harness. On mine it lights up the same water level lamp like for the
>windshield washer bottle.
Dan Mercier mentioned that this washer tank uses the same float switch to
indicate a low level.  I'll look into how much the float switch costs, and
maybe I can splice the wires from the new tank float switch to the old tank
float swich output wires since it is the same dashboard light that turns on
when level is low.  But then again, if there is a connector there, I'll just
plug the switch in it.


>I do not recommend the 2s as it simply is not necessary. You can shop for
>the System 1s as it is the best solution for us. Cost at the moment is £307
>from ERL (www.aquamist.co.uk) and this is with a prepressurized path (the
>high end solution for sure, but fully reliable).

I see you are reccomending the cheaper of the 2 alternatives (1s).  How many
of the features are you currently using from the 2s?  Are you spraying
various amounts of water at different boost levels, RPM, air flow values,
injector signals, etc.?  Baisically, is it good to have a map (for example,
like my Apexi AVC-R boost controller has) or it is OK to just inject a set
amount of water whenever you exceed a set boost (ie. 10 psi)?  Is there any
way we can dump too much water in the engine?

>There are other systems but I'm not happy with the systems as they do not
>spray such a fine mist as the ERL one. But as said, the System 1 is enough
>for our application and I got System 2 in the hope to get some fine tuning
>possibilities. In fact the system does allow me much to do but itis not
>necessary on our cars.
I will look around for the price differences between the 1s and 2s and will
make an educated decision which way to go.  I do not like picking 2nd best
too much, so I will have to see the USD version of the (£307 and £556).

>Yes, it is as the temperature in the intake before the throttle body should
>be less than 60°C. Best is around 39°C. I once measured 94°C without WI at
>the intake and about 144°C at the turbo discharge.

>I'd Install a cheap temp sensor with a small digital display that can be
>get for about $50 or so. The temp range should go up to 300°C (sensor)

Thanks for the temp ranges.

>I'm setting up a page with the parts needed for the tank (only available in
>europe) so everyone will be able to get it easily.
I'll wait untill you have time to put up your webpage.  No rush.  I'm not
going to order tomorrow.

Different topic question:
My mods are Pexi AVC-R (0.8 and 1 bar settings) and K&N FIPK on my 95 VR4.
My plugs are still factory originals (@ 40000 miles).  Does this present
more of a dettonation or missfiring risk than a lower setting?  My brother's
94 TT plugs are set @ 0.34.  Should I set mine at 0.34, 0.32 or what?  I
have a spare intake gasket in case I need to regap my plugs.  It would
probably be a goo opportunity to examine the plugs and take pictures for you
and the list to see for dettonation problems.

Any new info on the MSD knock sensor and correlation with TMO datalogger?
Is it a good, reliable, and good quality toy(important safety feature)?  If
this works, you just solved everyone's knock monitoring problem, including
mine and my brother's.

>Regards
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>www.rtec.ch

- -MIKE-          aa2345@wayne.edu
95 Red VR4
Detroit Metro Area, Michigan


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:56:43 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Windshield washer bottle in front bumper addition to 2G

Please bear with me as I cannot find the pictures of the tank alone anymore
and I don't have the part number for it. I will call Mitsu today as the
european parts are not included in the CAPS on Vinnies CD.

Basically, the front washer kit consists of the tank itselfs, a pump on it,
the low level sensor switch, a rubber hose with clamps and a plstic tube
piece that can be extended with a cap. With this it is easier to fill in
water/alcohol. Of course one can have the tank without this stuff but it
fits perfectly :) I will take some pics of the stuff on the car too.

>Thanks for the reply.  So, I know the ERL is the way to go now.

It's one way. There are others around but the Spearco has a weak pump and
no check valves. There is also another system but the ERL is the only one
with a real strong high pressure pump that works with any tank.

> >1. The tank will fit the 2nd gen cars. Roger got one for me and it works
> >great.
>I'll wait for Roger to put up a webpage on where to get the washer tank.

During this week.

> >2. You can hook up a low level warning light. The tank has a hole in the
> >bottom of it that will accept the float switch. The float switch is
> >identical to the one for you windshield washer tank. I wired my own led
> >warning lamp into the WI tank float switch.

The switch is damn expensive for what it is ! Maybe one can get it out of a
trashed car from a salvage yard for a few bucks.

>I'll look into how much the float switch costs, and maybe I can splice the
>wires from the new tank float switch to the old tank float swich.  Roger
>mentioned that it is the same dashboard light that turns on when level is
>low.

I will present the wiring diagram on my pages then.

> >4. The ERL system that Roger and I use is the finest that I have seen on
>the
> >market. It isn't cheap but the system is of the highest quality. If you're
> >interested in the ERL unit let me know. My company 3SX Automotive
> >Technologies is a retail distributor for ERL.

Yes, unfortunately it is expensive but it also allows you to use the new
flow switch that tells you when water is really flowing. The System 2s
incorporates the technology and lights up an LED when water is blocked. It
can even be wired with the stock boost solenoid to bypass any aftermarket
boost controller. This will provide you with a safety feature if water is
empty or a jet is blocked.

>How much does your company sell the unit for (either the ERL Aquamist System
>1s or 2s)?  Is there any way I can get a discount through you, or does the
>list get any slecial privileges with your company?  Do you have the ERL WI
>1s or 2s system?

If you ask me and RTEC then there is no gain when I give it for my price.
This due to the fact that the US resellers have better prices than me in
Europe. So it is worth to ask a dealer in your State. My System is 2s.

>Roger is putting a webpage together with the part numbers and relevant info.

The part numbers will not help you at all as you cannot order anything from
Mitsu that isn't in the CAPS database. I'll try to get several tanks so
shipping will be lower.

> >Let me know if you would like to see some pictures of my WI installation.
>That would be great.  I would appreciate you letting me see some pics of
>your installation.

Yes, sure, we all want to see them :)

Cheers
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:08:20 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 19" Rims

What year and what width?

I believe 20" rims (maybe 20x9.5) fit on the rear of a second gen car.  My
front can handle the stock wheel of 18x8.5 with stock offset but can not
handle any tire over 270mm wide without spacers (I tried 265 and it fit and
275 did not so I am assuming here).

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 VR-4 with stock 18x8.5 rims and 245/40/18 tires

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ferry Holidjaja [mailto:tetu@surfcity.net]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 23:24

Hi,
I have a question: Will 19" wheel fits on 3000GT base model ??
Thanks.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:38:59 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Highspeed runs in a Spyder, header rattles

Jeff, I didn't find the noise in your car "unbearable".  I guess there is
some blessing in the "noise notch" I have from shooting guns without ear
plugs. Maybe I was more concerned about the approach of Turn 1 than the
noise.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff [SMTP:spydervr4@home.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 12:02 PM
> To: Brad Bedell; Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Highspeed runs in a Spyder, header rattles
>
> Well, I've tried it:
>
> 1) Top down, helmet on at the Texas World Speedway and it wasn't that bad.
> I think the helmet muffles a lot of the noise.
> 2) Top up, windows down, helmet on, and it wasn't that bad either.  Once
> again, I think the helmet made a big difference, but even so I didn't hear
> any shrieking, just a lot of wind noise.
> 3) Top up, windows up, no helmet.  Right at 120 you can hear the
> shrieking/jet engine noise starting and by 130 or 135 it's unbearable.
>
> As far as the rattles, yeah mine got louder when I lowered the car too.
> I'm
> not quite so worried about that.  It's the high speed noise that bothers
> me
> because my old hatchback never had this problem and the Spyders in all the
> mags supposedly top out at 151 or so bone stock.  Well maybe it can, maybe
> it can't, but I can't find out because I don't have ear plugs.
>
> jeff
> '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> '95 Chevrolet K1500 Z71
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
> To: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>; "'Jeff'"
> <spydervr4@home.com>; "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 8:35 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Highspeed runs in a Spyder, header rattles
>
>
> > If you're traveling that fast, you should have a helmet on :)  Ear plugs
> > would be a good addition to anyone who owns a spyder also.
> >
> > I get a lot of wind noise from my quarter windows and the seam directly
> > overhead. (similar noise as the sun-roof makes on some cars)
> > My spyder is actually quieter with the top down.
> >
> > The noises DID get worse when I put springs on the spyder, I'm going to
> > assume most of the noise is from chassis flex and age.
> >
> > This summer I'm going to stitch weld the unibody on the spyder,
> hopefully
> > this will help the flex a little.
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:09:39 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

[Willis, Charles E.]  Okay, okay, you heard everybody else's
opinion.  I like the crossdrilling.  I don't like the slotting. I would
rather have flat rotors than slotted ones.  There is a large amount of
sentiment that anything that reduces the amount of rotor surface area is
bad, because it reduces friction.  I believe crossdrilling improves the
pad's bite into the rotor, improves cooling, and gives the metal somewhere
to expand during heating.  All these opinions are based on beliefs from
personal experience.  I also cracked my first crossdrilled rotor in four
seasons last track event.

So now you are as confused as the rest of us!

Chuck Willis


> Is crossdrilling or sloting recommended? I guess I like the idea because
> of
> the look, but I'm really more interested in the performance.
>
> Thanks for any info from anyone,
> Kenneth Wells
> '91 GTO TT
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:01:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

> [Willis, Charles E.]  Okay, okay, you heard everybody else's
> opinion.  I like the crossdrilling.  I don't like the slotting. I would
> rather have flat rotors than slotted ones.  There is a large amount of
> sentiment that anything that reduces the amount of rotor surface area is
> bad, because it reduces friction.
- ---

It does..it removed the available area to create friction ON..it doesnt
reduce it itself.  This leads to hotter rotors, quicker fade..and if youre
in a situation where the brakes are barely large enough for your car in
the first place..the lost friction area + decreased thermal mass to absorb
that heat with..conspire with each other to make your day suck.  Theres no
such thing as pad gassing either with a good pad design.  OEM type
pads..yes, may gas..but once that hot they will be useless anyhow.

> I believe crossdrilling improves the
> pad's bite into the rotor, improves cooling, and gives the metal somewhere
> to expand during heating.
- ---
Believe as you will..but it doesnt increase bite, will improve cooling in
a non-vented rotor only..and actually causes expansion "issues" no matter
who makes the rotor.  A good rotor with proper breaking in will handle
heat expansion just fine.  (none of these things can solve a bad hat
design tho).

> All these opinions are based on beliefs from
> personal experience.  I also cracked my first crossdrilled rotor in four
> seasons last track event.
- ---

I cracked mine at the hub in 7 laps.  *heh*

> > Is crossdrilling or sloting recommended? I guess I like the idea because
- ---
Slotting can be marginally better IF you glaze your pads.  If its just for
looks..thats $160 worth of drillin to look cool.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:42:58 -0600
From: "Jim" <devlin@jobe.net>
Subject: Team3S: max tire width

Does anyone know the widest tire size that I could use on my stock 95-SL.  I
have 16" factory crome wheels. I now have 245x16's. Im looking for that
meaner look without tire rub.

Thanks,
Jim from Missouri


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:57:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: max tire width

Wheel width * 25.4 * 1.2 should be the max "sporty" width you want.

Width * 25.4 * 1 is optimal for best performance from your tire.

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Jim wrote:

> Does anyone know the widest tire size that I could use on my stock 95-SL.  I
> have 16" factory crome wheels. I now have 245x16's. Im looking for that
> meaner look without tire rub.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim from Missouri
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:02:20 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

I don't believe there is no such thing as pad offgassing.  I don't believe
the amount of material removed in crossdrilling makes a significant
difference in the overall mass of the rotor, they stil seem pretty heavy to
me.  Stillen Metal Matrix pads are not OEM type but gas (a bunch).  Cracking
at the hub doesn't really have anything to do with the crossdrilling, does
it?  Mine has radial fracture lines across one face in two places.

I got flamed pretty bad the last time I said something disparaging about our
car's brakes being marginal.

What do you mean by "glazing your pads"?  Between events I clean my pads
with solvent and scotch brite pads to remove glaze, and I turn my rotors to
remove glaze.  Glaze sounds "smooth" which seems like the antithesis of
friction.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:01 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: 'Kenneth Wells'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors
>
> > [Willis, Charles E.]  Okay, okay, you heard everybody else's
> > opinion.  I like the crossdrilling.  I don't like the slotting. I would
> > rather have flat rotors than slotted ones.  There is a large amount of
> > sentiment that anything that reduces the amount of rotor surface area is
> > bad, because it reduces friction.
> ---
>
> It does..it removed the available area to create friction ON..it doesnt
> reduce it itself.  This leads to hotter rotors, quicker fade..and if youre
> in a situation where the brakes are barely large enough for your car in
> the first place..the lost friction area + decreased thermal mass to absorb
> that heat with..conspire with each other to make your day suck.  Theres no
> such thing as pad gassing either with a good pad design.  OEM type
> pads..yes, may gas..but once that hot they will be useless anyhow.
>
> > I believe crossdrilling improves the
> > pad's bite into the rotor, improves cooling, and gives the metal
> somewhere
> > to expand during heating.
> ---
> Believe as you will..but it doesnt increase bite, will improve cooling in
> a non-vented rotor only..and actually causes expansion "issues" no matter
> who makes the rotor.  A good rotor with proper breaking in will handle
> heat expansion just fine.  (none of these things can solve a bad hat
> design tho).
>
> > All these opinions are based on beliefs from
> > personal experience.  I also cracked my first crossdrilled rotor in four
> > seasons last track event.
> ---
>
> I cracked mine at the hub in 7 laps.  *heh*
>
> > > Is crossdrilling or sloting recommended? I guess I like the idea
> because
> ---
> Slotting can be marginally better IF you glaze your pads.  If its just for
> looks..thats $160 worth of drillin to look cool.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:12:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

> I don't believe
> the amount of material removed in crossdrilling makes a significant
> difference in the overall mass of the rotor, they stil seem pretty heavy to
> me.
- ---
Your welcome to your opinion too.  Im just stating what physics are
involved..and they dont shift based on what the driver thinks.  VR4 brakes
on stock calipers a really just a tad too small for the car, and every
ounce counts.

> Stillen Metal Matrix pads are not OEM type but gas (a bunch).
- ---

If you are using MMatrix pads as a high-performance pad example..then we
are both clearly on different pages here.  The Matrix pad aint high
performance.  Ive melted two sets on supras, and theres been one really
cool meltdown on a S3K thats documented as well.

> at the hub doesn't really have anything to do with the crossdrilling,
> does
> it?  Mine has radial fracture lines across one face in two places.
- ---

Not really, but non-cast drilling has shown in many cases..to be a
cracking problem.  But it all depends on what you call "performance"
braking.

> I got flamed pretty bad the last time I said something disparaging about our
> car's brakes being marginal.
- ---
Im not gonna flame ya..*grin*.  But the VR4 brake setup is rather
marginal.

 
> What do you mean by "glazing your pads"?  Between events I clean my pads
> with solvent and scotch brite pads to remove glaze, and I turn my rotors to
> remove glaze.  Glaze sounds "smooth" which seems like the antithesis of
> friction.
- ---

Glaze is where the pad face has overheated and reconstituted itself in a
manner..where its coefficient of friction is severely reduced.

Standing on the bad and gridning it a tad on the concrete under your foot
is one of those 'best practices' at the track to clean that off if you
have issues with it.

Turning the rotor only does two things when its not required because of
warping.

1) Removes mass  (doesnt SEEM like a lot..but it IS.  This is why rotors
have minimum thickness tolerances)
2) Removes that nice bedded in brake pad material..which enhances pad
performance.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:02:50 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

>I got flamed pretty bad the last time I said something disparaging about our
>car's brakes being marginal.
>
Oh, yeah? Well, let me join in. I agree with Chuck: Our brakes are pretty
marginal. They will stop you from 120 mph....ONCE. After that, they are
history.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:26:08 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

One thing that crossdrilling does (in a physics sense) is increase the
surface area of the rotor that is available for heat transfer from the rotor
to the air (that's the area inside the holes).

Agreed, MMatrix pads are not high performance, but they are also better than
OEM (your original post).  We drove on them for three seasons and they don't
last well, they get gassy, and they dust a lot.  They will, however, stop
the car.  I've graduated to Carbotech Panther Pads, which were great for my
'93, but now had to have them custom made for my '94 rear brakes.  Dealer
wants me to try HPPlus pads, because I am driving street and track.  He
recommends HP Blue for track only application, becasue he has had problems
with them flaking during street use, because of the higher operating
temperature.

I like your idea of standing on the pad and grinding it on the concrete!
That's a keeper!

Chuck
(please don't be cross(drilled) with me!)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 11:13 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: 'Geoff Mohler'; 'Kenneth Wells'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors
>
> > I don't believe
> > the amount of material removed in crossdrilling makes a significant
> > difference in the overall mass of the rotor, they stil seem pretty heavy
> to
> > me.
> ---
> Your welcome to your opinion too.  Im just stating what physics are
> involved..and they dont shift based on what the driver thinks.  VR4 brakes
> on stock calipers a really just a tad too small for the car, and every
> ounce counts.
>
> > Stillen Metal Matrix pads are not OEM type but gas (a bunch).
> ---
>
> If you are using MMatrix pads as a high-performance pad example..then we
> are both clearly on different pages here.  The Matrix pad aint high
> performance.  Ive melted two sets on supras, and theres been one really
> cool meltdown on a S3K thats documented as well.
>
> > at the hub doesn't really have anything to do with the crossdrilling,
> > does
> > it?  Mine has radial fracture lines across one face in two places.
> ---
>
> Not really, but non-cast drilling has shown in many cases..to be a
> cracking problem.  But it all depends on what you call "performance"
> braking.
>
> > I got flamed pretty bad the last time I said something disparaging about
> our
> > car's brakes being marginal.
> ---
> Im not gonna flame ya..*grin*.  But the VR4 brake setup is rather
> marginal.
>

> > What do you mean by "glazing your pads"?  Between events I clean my pads
> > with solvent and scotch brite pads to remove glaze, and I turn my rotors
> to
> > remove glaze.  Glaze sounds "smooth" which seems like the antithesis of
> > friction.
> ---
>
> Glaze is where the pad face has overheated and reconstituted itself in a
> manner..where its coefficient of friction is severely reduced.
>
> Standing on the bad and gridning it a tad on the concrete under your foot
> is one of those 'best practices' at the track to clean that off if you
> have issues with it.
>
> Turning the rotor only does two things when its not required because of
> warping.
>
> 1) Removes mass  (doesnt SEEM like a lot..but it IS.  This is why rotors
> have minimum thickness tolerances)
> 2) Removes that nice bedded in brake pad material..which enhances pad
> performance.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:29:52 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

Rich,

In all fairness to the flamers, it all depends on your application.  I was
directed to a Road and Track magazine article that showed 2nd generation
cars having the shortest stopping distance among many cars.  Since I still
haven't taken the '94 to the track, I'm reserving judgement.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 11:03 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Geoff Mohler'; Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: 'Kenneth Wells'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors
>
>
> >I got flamed pretty bad the last time I said something disparaging about
> our
> >car's brakes being marginal.
> >
> Oh, yeah? Well, let me join in. I agree with Chuck: Our brakes are pretty
> marginal. They will stop you from 120 mph....ONCE. After that, they are
> history.
>
> Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:29:16 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

>In all fairness to the flamers, it all depends on your application.  I was
>directed to a Road and Track magazine article that showed 2nd generation
>cars having the shortest stopping distance among many cars.

Yeah, once!  Try it again, with stock pads and rotors, and see what happens.

Rich



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:38:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

> One thing that crossdrilling does (in a physics sense) is increase the
> surface area of the rotor that is available for heat transfer from the rotor
> to the air (that's the area inside the holes).
- ---
Which on a vented rotor is negligible..you should work with cooling behind
the rotor..focing air into the vanes.
 
> I like your idea of standing on the pad and grinding it on the concrete!
> That's a keeper!
- ---

*grin*


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:41:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

> directed to a Road and Track magazine article that showed 2nd generation
- ---

One should view magazine tests as highly speculative..and not real-world.

ya..it stopped ok cold...but they dont do repeated stops.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:43:35 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield cryo treated rotors

>In all fairness to the flamers, it all depends on your application.  I was
>directed to a Road and Track magazine article that showed 2nd generation
>cars having the shortest stopping distance among many cars.  Since I still
>haven't taken the '94 to the track, I'm reserving judgement.

This is true but don't ask anybody about the second or third time one is
doing these tests !!!

He recently had the new Porsche Bi-Turbo on a road track that was equipped
with the new ceramic compound brakes. We did 5 100km/h - 0 tests and got no
fading nor any warping feeling. But the setting is about 10k ... ouch. We
made back to back tests with the Audi RS2 with the Porsche/Brembo calipers
and Porsche rotors (standard equippment). This heavy car stopped well the
first three times but then the fourth and fifth became significantly longer
(over 40 m !). I had my car with the Bremsas two years ago on the same
testtrack and had the same braking results as the Porsche Bi-Turbo (normal
brakes) what was about 36 meters. Also after the fith stop I was still
below 40 m but then the pads got eaten up by the slotted and bored rotors.
Indeed the pads showed som holes in them as the cracked out.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:07:39 -0800
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Team3S: Team 3S: Bad news...heads blown?

All,

Had a bad Friday.

My car has been in and out of service for the last week and a half, trying to get an issue resolved. When my car is hot, and I go to restart, my idle will hunt for approx. 3 minutes, then things will level out. The dealer told me it was my throttle body/injectors, and did a cleanup job/flush. I told them I didn't have much faith in that prognosis, and sure enough, I was correct.

Friday I took the car out, and sure enough the idle starting going nuts again. I had already made another appointment at this point, but ended up towing my car in Saturday instead. Turns out, while my idle was going haywire, the temperature gauge peaked and the smell of coolant pervaded the air. White smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. Needless to say, I was pretty ticked.

FYI: The car is a 94 Stealth Turbo, with usual mods and stock boost. 83000 miles on the clock.

I am awaiting info from the dealership...Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Dan Jett
94 Stealth TT                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:28:30 -0500
From: Michael Reid <mreid@magma.ca>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Getrag individual parts available from Mitsu ??? !!!!

Unfortunately I got negative responses from Tallahassee, Rockville,
AND West Broad. Besides the Mitsu CAPS program, it was West Broad's
website @ http://www.westbroadmitsubishi.com/parts.htm where I got
the parts numbers and prices from eg:

OEM Part Number: MR166910
232345  Manual Transaxle - W/A.W.D. 6 Speed, 1ST & 2ND Synchronizer Hub
Assy, 3000 Gt   $344.91     $310.42

OEM Part Number: MR166912
232327  Manual Transaxle - W/A.W.D. 6 Speed, 3RD & 4TH Gear Synchronizer
Assy, 3000 Gt  $433.56     $390.20

It seems "cruel" to dangle these Mitsu parts numbera (and retail/discount
prices !!)
in front of us if we can't order them. I wonder if these parts might be
orderable
from a Japanese or European Mitsu dealer ??

Mike.
94 TT, black.


>From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
>
>My suspicion is that those part numbers are for internal use only.  I'm
>rather surprised you got them.  Some time back, Mitsubishi decided to send
>their Getrag rebuilds to an outside firm whose name I can't recall.  It
>would make sense that this outside company would need the original part
>numbers as a means to order to obtain replacements from Getrag.
>
>Jeff V
>jeffv@1nce.com



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:33:40 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel Question

rich -

I mixed the wheels on my car and didn't think about it... big mistake for me.  Make sure that they are the same tread on the tires.  Its okay for different brands, but if they aren't the same tread you'll fishtail and slide all over the place when it rains.  The problem isn't as bad when its dry, though its definately still there (which means no racing on the roads if there's turns).

John
1994 3000GT VR-4

Get your free e24/7 email at http://www.e247.com
Send & receive large files with 100MB of storage

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:50:34 -0500
From: "Michael Chan" <michael.chan@hummingbird.com>
Subject: Team3S: ABS Error Codes

Hello List,

I've got the dreaded 'ABS light is on all of the time' syndrome and I'm
trying to link this to an insurance claim so I have to go to my dealer (ugh)
on this one.  To be brief, the passenger front fender of my Stealth was
crushed a few weeks ago.  My ABS light has been on since, however the stupid
dealer could not find any error codes.

They cleared the codes and told me to bring the car back after a couple of
days.  Monday morning they told me that ABS light was not on and no codes
were
showing.  When I picked up the car, the light was on and I forced the
manager to have someone look at it again after hour.

They found the following...

52 Motor Relay [related to the hydraulic unit?]
51 Valve Relay [related to the hydraulic unit?]
55 ECU Error [???]

Anyone have any ideas what this could mean or what I can expect?  My ABS
Hydraulic Unit failed 1 week after my 5 year warranty expired.  Chrysler
covered it then, now almost 5 years later this it may be happening again!

I have a 91 Stealth RT/Turbo, HKS intake, EVC IV, SSBV, Turbo Exhaust
etc....

Thanks,

Mike


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:20:55 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Team 3S: Bad news...heads blown?

Idle hunting is a symptom of one of a couple of things - notably 1) idle
servo controller failure - which should cause a Trouble code and 2)
humongeous intake leak - I had this happen with my '91 GSX - one of the
hoses leading to the intercooler was disconnected..  "things leveling out"
is disturbing - it's like when the car warms up, the problem disappears.
Coolant smell could easily be from the overflow reservior if the engine got
hot as you said.  Did the car get it's water pump replaced when you did the
60K?  Anybody do a compression test yet?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Jett [SMTP:djett@corp.ultratech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:08 PM
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Team 3S: Bad news...heads blown?
>
> All,
>
> Had a bad Friday.
>
> My car has been in and out of service for the last week and a half, trying
> to get an issue resolved. When my car is hot, and I go to restart, my idle
> will hunt for approx. 3 minutes, then things will level out. The dealer
> told me it was my throttle body/injectors, and did a cleanup job/flush. I
> told them I didn't have much faith in that prognosis, and sure enough, I
> was correct.
>
> Friday I took the car out, and sure enough the idle starting going nuts
> again. I had already made another appointment at this point, but ended up
> towing my car in Saturday instead. Turns out, while my idle was going
> haywire, the temperature gauge peaked and the smell of coolant pervaded
> the air. White smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. Needless to say,
> I was pretty ticked.
>
> FYI: The car is a 94 Stealth Turbo, with usual mods and stock boost. 83000
> miles on the clock.
>
> I am awaiting info from the dealership...Any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dan Jett
> 94 Stealth TT
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:49:32 -0500
From: Michael Reid <mreid@magma.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Stealth and 3000GT production numbers

I have my final production number totals here. I'll get these
up on a website somewhere eventually.

These numbers were derived by writing a program to scan the
C:\PASEN\SHARYO.IDX and C:\PASEN\SHARYO.DAT files included
with the Mitsubishi CAPS program. After fixing it up and
verifying the numbers every which way from Sunday, I feel
reasonably confident these numbers are accurate.

I believe these numbers represent production at the Nagoya
plant for Canada and the US only, but I'm not sure about Europe.
The numbers I've seen elsewhere are sales numbera only and
are incomplete in some areas.

It's possible to break these numbers down further, but these
numbers will do for now.

(For example, I'm the owner of one of 924 1994 Stealth R/T Turbo's.
Of those, ~125 were black, ~100 of those had the 27A interior, 41
of those had the C6B option package, 14 of those were built for
Canada, and only 1 of those (mine) was built in the 1st week of
February 1994.)

Note that some messing with model year designations occurred.
For example, 1997 Spyders were actually 96 (or 95?) Spyders,
according to their VINs and date of production. Also, there
were no 1995 Stealth TT's produced (although I've heard of
them and seen one). I suspect that any 1995 Stealth TT is
really a left-over 1994 model (which still included the AWS).

I also suspect that low demand and the changeover to the non-AWS
Stealth TT may have taken an extra model year. If you have a 96
Stealth TT (only 57 made, none for Canada), it's one of only 57
Stealth TT's without AWS.

Note of interest: The first 2 Stealth TT's made for the 94 model year
have a very unusual transmission code of "Q". I suspect these cars
MAY have been the long rumored automatic transmission Stealth TT's.
Perhaps there were created for testing and the initiative was
dropped. (Made for emissions testing and didn't pass or transmission
had reliability problems or Chrsyler started backing away from Mitsu?)

They were both made in June 1996 (93/06/1) and the first had California
emissions and the second had Federal emissions. The VINs and the codes
I found for them are:

JB3AN74K6RY000028   MQGFL7D     93/06/1 ? W29 17A
JB3AN74K8RY000029   MQGFL2D     93/06/1 Z17 Y99 27A


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------



Dodge Stealth and Mitsubishi 3000GT production totals by model year
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model Year      91     92     93     94     95     96     97     98     99
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stealth      17280  19696  15249   8444   4274    360      0      0      0
3000GT        9927  13233  12266  16103  15612   5135   5850   4758   3267
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total        27207  32929  27515  24547  19886   5495   5850   4758   3267

Grand Total all Stealth and 3000GT:  151454



- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------



Dodge Stealth production totals by model year:
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Model Year     91      92      93      94      95      96
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Base         4529    4811    6351    4346    2856     188
ES           5756    5283    5282       0       0       0
R/T          3979    5247    2317    2493    1418     115
R/T Luxury      0       0       0     681       0       0
R/T Turbo    3016    4355    1299     924       0      57
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Total       17280   19696   15249    8444    4274     360
- ---------------------------------------------------------


Dodge Stealth production totals for all years:
- ----------------------------------------------
Base            23081
ES              16321
R/T             15569
R/T Luxury        681
Turbo            9651
- ---------------------
Grand Total:    65303


These numbers match reasonably well with the sales numbers reported
originally in the January-February 1996 edition of "Chrysler Car
Enthusiast Engines etc ..." on page 8.

Those numbers can be found on Santo Nucifora's old website at
http://stealth.senecac.on.ca/frames/production.html or at Eric Bowden's
website at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9907/3s-production.html .

Note that those numbers are sales by CALENDAR year, not model
year, and the numbers for 95-96 (and probably 94) are incomplete.
Also note that not all cars produced are sold, some probably get
driven off the pier and some may be given away as gifts or destroyed.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------


Mitsubishi 3000GT production (and reported sales) totals by model year:
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Model Year        91              92              93       
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Base             364   (151)    1322  (1313)    5361  (5314)
SL              5870  (6015)    6964  (6877)    4310  (4271)
VR-4            3693  (3646)    4947  (4853)    2595  (2550)
SL Spyder          0               0               0       
VR-4 Spyder        0               0               0       
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Total           9927  (9812)   13233 (13043)   12266 (12135)
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Unsold           115             190             131       
- ------------------------------------------------------------

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Model Year        94              95              96       
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Base            8840  (8812)    9149  (9102)    3233  (3184)
SL              5613  (5570)    4245  (4167)     876   (835)
VR-4            1650  (1591)    1311  (1263)     315   (880)
SL Spyder          0             376     (*)     365     (*)
VR-4 Spyder        0             531     (*)     346     (*)
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Total          16103 (15973)   15612 (14532)    5135  (4899)
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Unsold           130            1080             236       
- ------------------------------------------------------------

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Model Year        97              98              99       
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Base            4055  (3810)    2916  (1427)    1936   (289)
SL              1285  (1553)    1611  (1036)    1044   (192)
VR-4             510   (646)     231   (156)     287    (45)
SL Spyder          0               0               0       
VR-4 Spyder        0               0               0       
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Total           5850  (6009)    4758  (2619)    3267   (526)
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Unsold          -159            2139            2741       
- ------------------------------------------------------------


Mitsubishi 3000GT production totals for all years:
- --------------------------------------------------
Base            37176
SL              31818
VR-4            15539
SL Spyder         741
VR-4 Spyder       877
- ---------------------
Grand Total     86151


(!) Either about 200 base's were sold as SL's in 1991 or
    the VINs for some SL's indicate they are base's.

(*) Spyder sales figures appear to be scattered from 95-97 and skew the
figures.
(*) Sales figures for 95 & 96 (& so called 97) VR-4 Spyders appear to be
included in the
    figures shown for 95, 96 & 97 VR-4's.

(!) Some sales numbers were corrected due to math errors.


The production numbers match reasonably well with the sales numbers reported
by Stephanie Molaskey (Case Manager, Vehicle Assistance) at Eric Bowden's
website at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9907/3s-production.html .

Note that the sales numbers are sales by MODEL year, not calendar
year, and the numbers for 98-96 (and probably 97) are incomplete.
Also note that not all cars produced are sold, some probably get
driven off the pier and some may be given away as gifts or destroyed.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------

Regards,
Mike.
94/02/1 Black TT, 27A interior, C6B option package, Canadian.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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