team3s Tuesday, February 13 2001 Volume 01 : Number 406

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Date: 12 Feb 2001 13:21:47 -0800
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: ECU capacitors

I have heard many people discuss the ECU capacitors going bad. I found the new capacitor part numbers from past post but I am not sure were the ECU is actually mounted?

I have already replaced the body ECU which is located in interior panel by my LH foot but I am assuming that this is not the same one.

P.S. If your dome light does not go off despite the fact that you door light (red one at back of door) does go off when door is closed, your body computer may be bad. Mine had visibly burnt components that I think were capacitors. From the service manuals I thought it was the body ECU but I could not figure out were it was mounted so I took my car to the dealer. After arguing with the dealer that I would not pay for more than 2 hours of diagnosis time ity still cost me $650.

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com
1991 3000GT VR4

Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:32:11 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl $RTEC$" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Misubishi CAPS program, VIN numbers, production numbers

> > I can't find any 1995 Stealth TT's in the VINs.
> >
> > All Spyders: 1629
> >
> > 95 Spyders: 914
> > 96 Spyders: 715
> >
> > SL Spyders: 746
> > VR-4 Spyders: 883

And also no European cars :-((((

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:40:04 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl $RTEC$" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question? Another Monitor!

> It is a knock sensor(monitor) that can act much like our ECU (when engine
> knock is occuring) by retarding timing and reducing boost....

Yes, but the ECU is already taking care of retarding the timing so it is not
needed. It uses the same knock microphone like the MSD one.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:23:37 -0500
From: smii <smii@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: convertable 92 stealth TT

I know this is off subject, but has anyone seen the custom convertible
92 RT/TT for sale on E-BAY. It only has 39000 miles on it, and has never
seen snow or rain. the asking price is $15,000. This car looks
absolutely gorgeous.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:29:11 -0600
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: 3000GT Spyder pictures from Texas World Speedway

Hey guys, here's pics a friend of mine took this past weekend at the Texas
World Speedway of me in a driving school. I have the black Spyder, of
course.

http://cad.mdsog.net/digicam/TWS/

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'95 Chevrolet K1500 Z71

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:54:16 EST
From: Shivy13@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Fifth Gear?

- --part1_33.109945c6.27ba09e8_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 I noticed on my way home the other day that fifth gear was jerking
when I hit the gas and when I got off of it. Then today it popped out after
taking my foot off and pressing it again. Someone mentioned a while back
about tightening a bold and I was wondering if anyone can tell me where this
bolt is and what I need to do? Thank you so much!!

Michael

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<HTML>      I noticed on my way home the other day that fifth gear was jerking
 when I hit the gas and when I got off of it.  Then today it popped out after
 taking my foot off and pressing it again.  Someone mentioned a while back
 about tightening a bold and I was wondering if anyone can tell me where this
 bolt is and what I need to do?  Thank you so much!!
 
 Michael</HTML>

- --part1_33.109945c6.27ba09e8_boundary--

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:25:00 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fifth Gear?

> I noticed on my way home the other day that fifth gear
> was jerking when I hit the gas and when I got off of it.
> Then today it popped out after taking my foot off and
> pressing it again. Someone mentioned a while back about
> tightening a bold and I was wondering if anyone can tell
> me where this bolt is and what I need to do?

Step 1: Stop driving the car

Step 2: Take off the plastic fender trim in the passenger side wheelwell.

Step 3: Drain the tranny fluid, using the drain bolt on the bottom edge of
the tranny.

Step 4: Remove the end cover of the tranny.

Step 5: On the uppermost gear of the tranny is a big nut - tighten that. I
forget the torque spec, but "a lot of torque" would be reasonably accurate -
probably something like 50-60 ft/lbs. The washer below it should have bent
pieces designed to hold the hexes of the nut - make sure they are
sufficiently bent up to hold the nut in place.

Step 6: Reassemble, using proper gasket sealant and such, refill to the
appropriate fill plug with the proper viscosity and grade (GL-4) tranny
fluid (I recommend BG Synchroshift) and you should be set.

Don't forget about Step 1! If you are to the point of it popping out of
gear on its own, you are on the edge of permanent and expensive transmission
damage.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:26:48 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 60K Service.....

Michael,

Here are the parts that went into my brother's 94 TT for his 60K service,
however, these parts are more comprehensive as if it were 120K tuneup. He
drives the car hard, so we went ahead and changed everything the list
reccomended.

Conicelli Mitsubishi
Josh 610-272-7711
esmdealer1@aol.com
TONI for 94 TT

610-272-8504
Part Number Description
$91.45 MD193874 Timing Belt
$58.71 MD319040 Tensioneer
$75.84 MD972005 Water Pump
$15.89 MD174234 Thermostat w/ gasket
$12.19 MD172376 Power Steering Belt
$15.83 MD187463 Accessory (A/C) Belt
$20.19 MB658136 Fuel Filter
$1.50 MD180361 Throttle Body Gasket
$5.63 MD143791 Intake Plenum Gasket
$54.04 MD193980 Spark Plug Wires
$55.44 PFR6J-11 Platinum NKG Spark plugs (each)
$20.87 MD140071 Tensioner Pulley for timing belt-TT only
$19.65 MD319022 Timing Belt Idler Pulley - TT only
$3.20?? MD352626 Oil Filter
$12.69 MD620472?? Air filter (doublecheck this one-it works on a 93 base
stealth, so in theory, these filters should be identical)

Ken Middaugh also reccomended I change the following:
$4.50 crank seal
$4.76 x 4 cam seals
However, it seems these items slipped and were forgotten when I ordered the
rest of the parts. Look up these part numbers for added safety.

Looks like Connicelli Mitsu still has the best prices.

Good luck.
- -MIKE- aa2345@wayne.edu
95 Red VR4
Apexi AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller
K&N FIPK, Boost Gauge, EGT Meter

John, brother iraicu@cs.wayne.edu
94 Pearl Yellow TT
Apexi AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller
K&N FIPK, Boost Gauge, EGT Meter
G Teck 0-60 (4.9 sec) 1/4 mile (13.34 sec @ 112.4 mph)
Top speed after mods 169 mph

Detroit Metro Area, Michigan
- ------------------------------

From: Michael Reid <mreid@magma.ca>
Subject: Team3S: 60K Service - Camshaft & Crankshaft Seals ? - Crankshaft
Damper Pulley ? - Oil Pump ?

I'm about to order my 60K service parts for the timing belt portion only.
The spark plugs and other things can wait for now.

Part Mitsu Part # Quan. Price
- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valve Timing Belt MD193874 1 97/103/110
Timing(Belt)[Tensioner]Adjuster MD319040 1 62/66/93
Timing (Belt) Tensioner Pulley MD140071 1 22/23/25
(Timing Belt) Idler Pulley MD319022 1 20/22/23
Waterpump Kit MD972005 1 80/85/91
Thermostat Kit MD174234 1 16/19/19
Power Steering Belt MD172376 1 13/13/?
A/C Belt MB879764 1 22/23/? This one
looks more appropriate. (aka MD813600)
- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Anyone see any errors ? Anyone know for sure which A/C Belt or Alternator
>Belt (not both ?) I need for a 94 Stealth TT ? The CAPS program says
>I want MB879764, but the Rockville person and some of the 60K lists claim
>I need MD187463 which only seems to apply to DOHCs/Turbos made from
>90/04 - 93/05. My TT was made 94/02. CAPS seems to claim that MD813600
>is good for 90/04 - 91/01 and that MB879764 (which supercedes MD813600?)
>is good for 91/02 - 99/99.

To answer your question, for the accessory AC belt you need:
$15.83 MD187463 Accessory (A/C) Belt
The dealers were right. It works in my brothers 94 TT.

>Thanks,
>Mike.
>94 Black Stealth TT.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:34:51 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

John,

>Now, looking
>at the voltage alone isn't going to do anything to it, but like Roger said,
>it really won't tell you anything either. Like he said it is just a
>microphone. Imagine hooking just a DVM up to your amplifier's speaker
>outputs, and then trying to determine what artist was playing on the radio
>by looking at the voltage. It's about that tricky. :-) Well, almost. :-)

Cool that you guys are stopping me from going down the same path some of you
took. So, I will not attempt to hook up no more voltmeters to the knock
sensor. From what I understand, putting any circuit in the path from the
knock sensor to the ECU could spell disaster. I don't know if you saw the
article I reffered to earlier from Jeff Lucius' page:
http://home.netcom.com/~bsundahl/knock/sound/KnockSounds.htm#spectrogram

The skematics for the simple circuit someone used on a 92 Eagle Talon (Bill
Sundahl's for proper credit) to monitor the knock sensor are at the page:
http://home.netcom.com/~bsundahl/knock/listen/listen.htm#Recorder

Bill used a 0.1 uF capacitor and a 100K resistor in series with the mic
input (5.6 K internal resistance of microphone input).

>What I have done now is monitor the boost control solenoid. If you learn
>how this behaves you can determine when excessive knock is present. The
DSM
>guys use this a lot. You don't find out as quickly as with something like
>the MSD, but it's better than nothing.
>
>John Basol
>'95 RT/TT

Can you tell me more about monitoring the BOOST CONTROL SOLEONOID. I have
the Apexi AVC-R electronic bost controller. It monitors the soleonoid.
What patterns do you look for?

One more question:
I searched for the KNOCK SENSOR electrical diagram on Vinet's CD. I found
it at the following location:
Backup Service Manual Stealth 1994, Vol. 2 Electrical page 8-109 (Circuit
Diagrams -- MFI Circuit <Turbo>)

For those with Vinet's CD, go to:
Navigate.pdf, Dodge Stealth (1992-1994), Electrical Volume 2, scroll down to
page 111 of 434 (entitled 8-109 under the Circuit Diagrams Section).

Can you or any engineer decipher this and tell if "a 0.1 uF capacitor and a
100K resistor in series with the mic input" is adequate for what we need?
If not, what filter do we need to use not to fry the ECU or the knock
sensor?

Thanks John,

- -MIKE- aa2345@wayne.edu
95 Red VR4

John, brother iraicu@cs.wayne.edu
94 Pearl Yellow TT

Detroit Metro Area, Michigan

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 04:18:36 EST
From: LizVong21@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Questions about travel in Germany

parting out 92 stealth twin turbo selling everything name your part or call
me at 605-310-3439 ask for Vong

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:44:38 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: convertable 92 stealth TT

I don't think it is off topic if you talk technical jargon.

I would think that the only way to properly make a convertible is to add all
sort of crazy stiffening support members to the car that now does not have a
roof as a rigid structure. Without these it will not be stiff enough and
will squeak and other bad, icky things. And if it was not a convertible
before ... and for that price and mileage ... it must be either a base or at
most an ES model.

Your thoughts, Mr. Jannusch?

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 non-Spyder

- -----Original Message-----
From: smii [mailto:smii@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 21:24

I know this is off subject, but has anyone seen the custom convertible
92 RT/TT for sale on E-BAY. It only has 39000 miles on it, and has never
seen snow or rain. the asking price is $15,000. This car looks
absolutely gorgeous.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 06:24:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

" Can you tell me more about monitoring the BOOST CONTROL SOLEONOID.
I have the Apexi AVC-R electronic bost controller. It monitors the
soleonoid. What patterns do you look for? "

The ECU controls the stock BC sol. in response to engine conditions
as explained on pages 14-56 of the Laser/Talon TIM (on Vinny's CD)
and on pages 14-21 and 14-22 of the Stealth TIM (my web site). When
the current to the solenoid is OFF, boost pressure is determined
solely by the wastegate actuator. As the ECU let's current flow to
the solenoid (called increasing the duty cycle), compressed air
bleeds off into the intake track and the wastegates open at higher
plenum boost pressures. When the ECU detects significant knock, the
"regular gas" fuel map is used and timing is retarded as well as the
BC sol. duty decreased.

WARNING: Using any aftermarket electronic BC (such as the AVC-R or
EVC) eliminates the ability of the ECU to control knock by reducing
boost levels (timing is still controlled of course).

All aftermarket EBCs are unaware of knock and cannot be used to
determine knock levels by monitoring BC solenoid duty cycle. The ECU
will still try to reduce the stock BC sol. duty cycle (even though
the stock BC sol. is out of the loop). Search the DSM and TMO sites
for info on using this information. If I remember correctly, a better
solution is provided by TMO which developed an enhanced ECU for the
DSM cars that can control a dash gauge to provide knock level
information (and other ECU information such as timing advance).
Unfortunately, TMO has expressed no interest in modifying 1st-gen 3S
ECU's for this purpose.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
To: <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Cc: "Team3S" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:34 AM
Subject: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

> What I have done now is monitor the boost control solenoid. If
> you learn how this behaves you can determine when excessive knock
> is present. The DSM guys use this a lot. You don't find out as
> quickly as with something like the MSD, but it's better than
> nothing.
>
> John Basol
> '95 RT/TT

Can you tell me more about monitoring the BOOST CONTROL SOLEONOID. I
have the Apexi AVC-R electronic bost controller. It monitors the
soleonoid. What patterns do you look for?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:41:55 -0500
From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs <Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com>
Subject: Team3S: re: 60K Service - Camshaft & Crankshaft Seals ? - Crankshaft Damper Pulley ? - Oil Pump ?

Michael,
I just finished my 120K service on my '94 VR-4 yesterday. I ordered
through Tallahassee Mitus. I checked their prices against Rockville,
and they were identical. Did you tell Tallahasee you were a list member
(20% disc)? They don't check. Shipping was $15 for next day. I
ordered Monday morning, and they were on my doorstep when I got home
Tuesday.

I waited until now to do my spark plugs and wires. It is a pain to take
it all apart again. Accessing the rear cam sprockets is easier without
the plenum there. You would need to remove the plenum to remove the
rear rocker cover if you replace the cam seals anyway. My 2 fronts were
leaking. You can see the residue on the inside of the cam sprockets.
You have to take off the timing belt and the rocker covers to do the
seals.

I will wait to do the fuel filter and thermostat later this year.

Heres my prices from Tal.
timing belt 97.54
tensioner 62.62
tens pulley 22.26
idle pulley 20.96
water pump 80.90
A/C belt 22.16 MB879764
P/S belt 13.00
crank seal 5.24
cam seals (4) 24.56

The other A/C belt you listed may be just an alternator belt if you
don't have A/C.

You should inspect all the parts that come off. Anything with excessive
wear or corrosion or deterioration should be replaced. My engine mount
was shot. The Harmonic dampener was fine. I cleaned and inspected any
parts that were not replaced.

You also need the 2 tools. It was gonna take 2 weeks to order. Here is
the quote I got from Rockville:
"
MD990767 $75.00
MD998752 $46.00
Mitsubishi is charging us $20 to ship these to us which is included in
the prices."

I made my own versions. It would be best to borrow them from someone.

If you need any advice, feel free to ask. It is fresh in my mind.
Tonight I get to put all the plastic covers on and take it for a
testdrive.
Good luck.

>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:48:22 -0500
>From: Michael Reid <mreid@magma.ca>
>Subject: Team3S: 60K Service - Camshaft & Crankshaft Seals ? - Crankshaft
>Damper Pulley ? - Oil Pump ?
>
>I'm about to order my 60K service parts for the timing belt portion only.
>The spark plugs and other things can wait for now.
>
>Biggest problem I've had is making sure the part numbers are proper for
>my car - 94 Stealth R/T TT w/ AWD, ECS. There are a few different lists
>of parts, but they mostly apply to the list writers car, and not all 3S's.
>
>I feel myself volunteering to create a Comprehensive Definitive 60K
>(and general high mileage) parts list given that it appears I've done most
>of the work for this already. Some of these parts only apply to certain
>year and month ranges, so it's rather a pain...
>
>There are various recommendations for what to replace, and a lot of it
>is opinion. As far as the timing belt and related items, there appears
>to be only 1 part officially 100% required for 91-99 DOHC and Turbos:
>"Valve Timing Belt" MD193874.
>
>The parts below however, seem to be recommended and make sense to me.
>If any of these parts break, your engine could be trashed. so for the
>relatively low prices, I'd replace them.
>
>These parts seem to be universal for the DOHC and Turbo from 91-99
>except for the Power Steering Belt and the A/C Belt also known as an
>Accessory, Drive, Alternator, or Serpentine belt. (Price was obtained
>online at Rockville, Tallahassee and West Broad. Anyone know why Rockville
>would quote me 40-50% higher prices by email ? BTW, at least they responded.)
>
>
>Part Mitsu Part # Quan. Price
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Valve Timing Belt MD193874 1 97/103/110
>Timing(Belt)[Tensioner]Adjuster MD319040 1 62/66/93
>Timing (Belt) Tensioner Pulley MD140071 1 22/23/25
>(Timing Belt) Idler Pulley MD319022 1 20/22/23
>Waterpump Kit MD972005 1 80/85/91
>Thermostat Kit MD174234 1 16/19/19
>Power Steering Belt MD172376 1 13/13/?
>A/C Belt MB879764 1 22/23/? This one
>looks more appropriate. (aka MD813600)
>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Anyone see any errors ? Anyone know for sure which A/C Belt or Alternator
>Belt (not both ?) I need for a 94 Stealth TT ? The CAPS program says
>I want MB879764, but the Rockville person and some of the 60K lists claim
>I need MD187463 which only seems to apply to DOHCs/Turbos made from
>90/04 - 93/05. My TT was made 94/02. CAPS seems to claim that MD813600
>is good for 90/04 - 91/01 and that MB879764 (which supercedes MD813600?)
>is good for 91/02 - 99/99.
>
>
>Some people have also recommended changing Camshaft and Crankshaft seals,
>as well as Crankshaft Damper Pulley (Harmonic Balancer?), and possibly
>the engine oil pump. Is this just paranoia or should these be replaced
>if problems are seen or unconditionally ?
>
>Please share your opinions; I don't want anyone to have to go in there
>once my timing belt is changed, until at least the next 60K service.
>
>
>Thanks,
>Mike.
>94 Black Stealth TT.
- --
Marc J. Jacobs Blue '94 VR-4
xDSL Hardware Development
Alcatel, USA (919) 850-6386

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:17:18 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 3000GT Spyder pictures from Texas World Speedway

Jeff,

It was a delight to have the opportunity to instruct you at the track last
weekend! I hope you feel you got your money's worth and I hope to see you
again at TWS! It'd be a shame to see you spend all your time driving in a
straight line at the dragstrip! You have a terrific car!

Chuck

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:32:00 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.(was What is stock boost for a 95 VR-4? )

My problem was that my car was spiking and peaking 1.0bar(14.5psi). After
putting on an ATR downpipe and gutting the cats, it got worse and peaked as
high as 1.12bar. Keep in mind I have had no mods on my car other than a K&N
before installing the downpipe and gutting the cats. Also my boost readings
were taken from an aftermarket boost guage.

After going through the service manual, I figured out how boost is
controlled on our cars. (Correct me if I'm wrong)Basically the wastegate
solenoid bleeds off some(or all, not sure) of the signal(pressure) that
opens up the wastegates. It bleeds it off back to the intake. Bleeding of
the signal will cause the wastegates to not open or not open fully.

So what I did was I unplugged the hose from the wastegate solenoid to the
wastegates. I plugged up the nipple on the solenoid to prevent un-filtered
air from going bacd to the intake, and I plugged up the open end of the hose
I just removed from the solenoid to prevent any loss of signal to the
wastegates. My thinking was to eliminate the wastegate solenoid from the
setup, plugging up the hose should allow full signal(pressure) to reach the
wastegates and open them up fully.

I took it for a test drive. My car never went past .59bar. Overboost problem
solved, or partially diagnosed. Because of the car never going past .59bar
after eliminating the wastegate solenoid from the setup, I'm inclined to
believe that my overboost problem is being caused by either a fualty
wastegate solenoid, or a leak in the hose from the solenoid back to the
intake. If so, are the wastegate solenoids known to go bad?

If this is the case, the problem could be remedied either by replacing the
wastegate solenoid or implementing an electronic boost controller. I think
I'll opt for the boost controller, any opinions on boost controllers besides
the Blitz DSBC.

Regards,
Michael Bulaon

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bulaon <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
To: Team 3s <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:59 AM
Subject: Team3S: What is stock boost for a 95 VR-4?

>I have 95 VR-4 and my Apex'i boost guage and Blitz turbo timer are telling
>me that I'm peaking at 1.00 bar of boost which I believe is about 14.5 psi.
>
>Now my question is, is this the correct boost pressure for a stock 95 VR-4?
>I'm inclined to think that it isn't and if not, then what is? Am I in
danger
>of running this high? Lastly what could be causing my overboost?
>
>Actually my car is mostly stock with the exception of a K&N.
>
>Thanks in advance.....
>
>
>Michael Bulaon
>
>
>*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:38:55 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

> Can you tell me more about monitoring the BOOST CONTROL
> SOLEONOID. I have the Apexi AVC-R electronic bost
> controller. It monitors the soleonoid.
> What patterns do you look for?

I think John was talking about the stock boost control solenoid on the
firewall. You just hook up a resistor and LED on the output wire from the
ECU and watch to see if the light is continually on. On second gen cars it
kind of flickers here and there to try to modulate boost to be a bit
"smoother" so flickering is okay. If it is on all the time, then the ECU
has detected excessive knock and is trying to reduce boost to reduce the
amount of knock. At that point it usually stays on for quite a while, over
multiple driving sessions.

It essentially functions the same as it does for the DSM guys. For 2G cars,
look here:

http://www.jps.net/~warranty/DSM/KnockLED.htm

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:47:40 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: convertable 92 stealth TT

> I would think that the only way to properly make a
> convertible is to add all sort of crazy stiffening
> support members to the car that now does not have a
> roof as a rigid structure. Without these it will
> not be stiff enough and will squeak and other bad,
> icky things. And if it was not a convertible
> before ... and for that price and mileage ... it
> must be either a base or at most an ES model.
>
> Your thoughts, Mr. Jannusch?

I've actually seen that car somewhere before. It is an AWD/TT car,
converted by a shop in Florida. I think he tried to sell it last year also.
There is actually quite a lot of structural strength in the 3/S cars
built-in, which is part of the reason they are so heavy. Removing the roof
is always questionable as to how much rigidity is left, but reinforcement
doesn't usually have to be very extensive. Something as simple as a few
strong angle-iron pieces under the door sills can be enough in some cases.

It looks like the conversion was well done, and the roof sits nice when
down. It even looks good with the top up. I think there was a black one
that was featured in Road and Track or one of the other car magazines a
while back which was extremely well done.

It ends in 10 minutes, so you might wanna hurry if you want it. ;-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
(I like the retracting hardtop better though...)

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:52:13 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

Jeff,

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Conclusion: I cannot monitor the stock
soleonoid since I have AVC-R. Monitoring AVC-R soleonoid duty cycles will
not tell me anything about knock either. The only thing that can possibly
tell me anything is timing and/or knock.

- -MIKE- aa2345@wayne.edu
95 Red VR4
Detroit Metro Area, Michigan

- ---------------------------------

> WARNING: Using any aftermarket electronic BC (such as the AVC-R or
> EVC) eliminates the ability of the ECU to control knock by reducing
> boost levels (timing is still controlled of course).
>
> All aftermarket EBCs are unaware of knock and cannot be used to
> determine knock levels by monitoring BC solenoid duty cycle. The ECU
> will still try to reduce the stock BC sol. duty cycle (even though
> the stock BC sol. is out of the loop). Search the DSM and TMO sites
> for info on using this information. If I remember correctly, a better
> solution is provided by TMO which developed an enhanced ECU for the
> DSM cars that can control a dash gauge to provide knock level
> information (and other ECU information such as timing advance).
> Unfortunately, TMO has expressed no interest in modifying 1st-gen 3S
> ECU's for this purpose.
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
- ------------------------------------

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:01:10 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

> Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Conclusion: I cannot
> monitor the stock soleonoid since I have AVC-R.
> Monitoring AVC-R soleonoid duty cycles will not tell
> me anything about knock either. The only thing that
> can possibly tell me anything is timing and/or knock.

You can still monitor the stock solenoid's wires, even if you don't have
anything connected to it. Unless by some accident (or on purpose) you fried
the output for the line on the ECU or something, it is still there and
functional regardless of what other boost control systems you have.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 08:20:46 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.(was What isstock boost for a 95 VR-4? )

> My problem was that my car was spiking and peaking 1.0bar(14.5psi). After
> putting on an ATR downpipe and gutting the cats, it got worse and peaked as
> high as 1.12bar. Keep in mind I have had no mods on my car other than a K&N
> before installing the downpipe and gutting the cats. Also my boost readings
> were taken from an aftermarket boost guage.

At what RPM and for how long is the peak lasting?

<snip>
> after eliminating the wastegate solenoid from the setup, I'm inclined to
> believe that my overboost problem is being caused by either a fualty
> wastegate solenoid, or a leak in the hose from the solenoid back to the
> intake. If so, are the wastegate solenoids known to go bad?
>
> If this is the case, the problem could be remedied either by replacing the
> wastegate solenoid or implementing an electronic boost controller. I think
> I'll opt for the boost controller, any opinions on boost controllers besides
> the Blitz DSBC.

My guess is that the peak is for a short duration and is due to the increased
turbo spool-up speed. I doubt that replacing the stock boost control solenoid
will solve the overboost, though perhaps you could borrow one from a TT/VR4
owner in the neighborhood. Most likely, the ECU and stock solenoid can't handle
the faster spoolup times (the ECU has a lot of other things to do too). It is
also unlikely (but not impossible) that these peaks will be harmful IF they are
very short duration and at RPM less than 5000.

An electronic boost controller will solve overboost since it has a cpu dedicated
to boost control and will probably react faster than the ECU. All EBCs control
boost very well so you can select one for you based on features. I really like
the Apexi SAVC-R since it has numerous display options, recording, and RPM based
boost settings.

Good luck,
Ken

- --
If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics - Fusion Group, San Diego, CA

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:28:46 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

I remember this thread a long time ago so let me dredge it up again.

My car with a K&N FIPK was doing perfect for a while. Then I go and
disconnect the vacuum lines to the turbo bypass valve (aka BOV) and
re-connect it then look in the Y-pipes for oil and such and re-connect
those.

Now on occasions I get the "owl hoot" from the engine bay (most recently was
yesterday in Second gear at 5,000 rpm). Is there any cure for this and how
did it happen in the first place when all was quiet beforehand.

Nothing damaging but since it does not happen all the time it breaks my
concentration sometimes. Unnerving since I don't think there is a cure for
it.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:17:04 -0500
From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

I think Roger has compiled some data on who has the noise, and who does not.
I remember a 99 VR-4 which had the noise also so I don't think it's related
to age. I believe it's the stock BOV vibrating just at the edge of
opening/closing. It's in limbo and can not decide if it wants to be open or
closed so it tries to do both and makes the funny noise. I could do this at
will with my car and make the hoot last a few seconds by modulating the
throttle. Weather seemed to effect this also, in colder weather it would
not make the noise as I remember. Should not be a problem but the stock BOV
is known to leak anyway so an aftermarket BOV would be a good idea. I got a
TurboXS BOV and I am very please with the price and performance.

Good luck,

Kevin Schappell
http://www.AutoEducation.com - Learn about your car
http://mobilesounds.vstorecar.com - Car electronics store
http://www.Speedtopia.com - Speed Forums

>
> Nothing damaging but since it does not happen all the time it
> breaks my
> concentration sometimes. Unnerving since I don't think there
> is a cure for
> it.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:47:46 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

Thanks, Kevin (your custom spark plug plate still makes my mod list too).

It isn't so much that I want to change it but if there is an easy fix then I
would entertain it. Thanks for the simple diagnosis of the problem or how
it occurs. Usually I am winding up through second gear and shifting soon
after 5,000 rpm that it doesn't have time to last. I think it has happened
in hot and cold days, car being cold and warmed up, etc. Doesn't matter
since air pressure doesn't care about temperature on the BOV.

I know I was scared after doing that preventive maintenance and reading that
it is a no harm sound eased my mind. If anyone out there has experienced
this also then it does not do any real damage. It is, however, a great
excuse to tell the wife that you need an aftermarket BOV. :-)

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Schappell [mailto:kevin@pacarsearch.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:17

I think Roger has compiled some data on who has the noise, and who does not.
I remember a 99 VR-4 which had the noise also so I don't think it's related
to age. I believe it's the stock BOV vibrating just at the edge of
opening/closing. It's in limbo and can not decide if it wants to be open or
closed so it tries to do both and makes the funny noise. I could do this at
will with my car and make the hoot last a few seconds by modulating the
throttle. Weather seemed to effect this also, in colder weather it would
not make the noise as I remember. Should not be a problem but the stock BOV
is known to leak anyway so an aftermarket BOV would be a good idea. I got a
TurboXS BOV and I am very please with the price and performance.

>
> Nothing damaging but since it does not happen all the time it
> breaks my
> concentration sometimes. Unnerving since I don't think there
> is a cure for
> it.

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:54:12 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.

> My guess is that the peak is for a short duration and is due
> to the increased turbo spool-up speed.

What increased the spool-up rate?

> I doubt that replacing the stock boost control solenoid
> will solve the overboost, though perhaps you could
> borrow one from a TT/VR4 owner in the neighborhood.

I agree with this, I doubt a new solenoid is the answer. If the solenoid is
mechanically bad, if anything the boost would go down or remain the same.

> Most likely, the ECU and stock solenoid can't handle
> the faster spoolup times (the ECU has a lot of other
> things to do too).

The ECU doesn't really try to control the boost level. It does try to
flatten out the curve a little bit, but it has no idea of what the boost
pressure actually is. I think there is probably an air leak somewhere in
the hoses or connectors between the Y-pipe connection and the wastegates or
boost control solenoid. Only a leak should allow overboost.

> An electronic boost controller will solve overboost since it
> has a cpu dedicated to boost control and will probably react
> faster than the ECU.

Even with the stock boost control solenoid open at all times the car
shouldn't overboost. Of course a better method of boost control is always
an advantage - but I think there's probably a simpler (and less expensive)
solution here somewhere if the only goal is to eliminate the overboost.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:11:42 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.(was What is stoc k boost for a 95 VR-4? )

>
> After going through the service manual, I figured out how boost is
> controlled on our cars. (Correct me if I'm wrong)Basically
> the wastegate
> solenoid bleeds off some(or all, not sure) of the
> signal(pressure) that
> opens up the wastegates. It bleeds it off back to the intake.
> Bleeding of
> the signal will cause the wastegates to not open or not open fully.
>
> So what I did was I unplugged the hose from the wastegate
> solenoid to the
> wastegates. I plugged up the nipple on the solenoid to
> prevent un-filtered
> air from going bacd to the intake, and I plugged up the open
> end of the hose
> I just removed from the solenoid to prevent any loss of signal to the
> wastegates. My thinking was to eliminate the wastegate
> solenoid from the
> setup, plugging up the hose should allow full
> signal(pressure) to reach the
> wastegates and open them up fully.
>

Question for all you turbo gurus out there: is this actually the way the
stock boost control setup works? I always assumed that the wastegate
solenoid was the sole controller of whether the wastegates were open or
closed (ie the wastegates would open under any pressure). From this
description is sounds like the wastegates have their own pressure sensors
that cause them to open at a given (and I'm assuming non-adjustable)
pressure. If the latter is the case, then what's the purpose of the
wastegate solenoid? And would replacing the wastegate solenoid with a
contraption that only opened at a predefined pressure (say, .9 bar)
effectively control boost?

- - Brian

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:14:02 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.(was What is stoc k boost for a 95 VR-4? )

> >
> > After going through the service manual, I figured out how boost is
> > controlled on our cars. (Correct me if I'm wrong)Basically
> > the wastegate
> > solenoid bleeds off some(or all, not sure) of the
> > signal(pressure) that
> > opens up the wastegates. It bleeds it off back to the intake.
> > Bleeding of
> > the signal will cause the wastegates to not open or not open fully.
> >
> > So what I did was I unplugged the hose from the wastegate
> > solenoid to the
> > wastegates. I plugged up the nipple on the solenoid to
> > prevent un-filtered
> > air from going bacd to the intake, and I plugged up the open
> > end of the hose
> > I just removed from the solenoid to prevent any loss of
> signal to the
> > wastegates. My thinking was to eliminate the wastegate
> > solenoid from the
> > setup, plugging up the hose should allow full
> > signal(pressure) to reach the
> > wastegates and open them up fully.
> >
>
> Question for all you turbo gurus out there: is this actually
> the way the
> stock boost control setup works? I always assumed that the wastegate
> solenoid

Oops!!! I meant boost control solenoid here, instead of wastegate solenoid!

> was the sole controller of whether the wastegates
> were open or
> closed (ie the wastegates would open under any pressure). From this
> description is sounds like the wastegates have their own
> pressure sensors
> that cause them to open at a given (and I'm assuming non-adjustable)
> pressure. If the latter is the case, then what's the purpose of the
> wastegate solenoid? And would replacing the wastegate solenoid with a
> contraption that only opened at a predefined pressure (say, .9 bar)
> effectively control boost?
>
> - Brian

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:24:40 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

One of the easist fix is to unhook the stock bypass vlave and to turn it a
little more and also to not push it into the intake rubber intake part. I
did this on a customers car who didn't want to pay sooo much for an
aftermarket BOV and since then he never experienced the "owl" sound again.

>I know I was scared after doing that preventive maintenance and reading that
>it is a no harm sound eased my mind. If anyone out there has experienced
>this also then it does not do any real damage. It is, however, a great
>excuse to tell the wife that you need an aftermarket BOV. :-)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:33:29 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem

>high as 1.12bar. Keep in mind I have had no mods on my car other than a K&N
>before installing the downpipe and gutting the cats. Also my boost readings
>were taken from an aftermarket boost guage.

And where have you hooked the boost gauge to ?

>controlled on our cars. (Correct me if I'm wrong)Basically the wastegate
>solenoid bleeds off some(or all, not sure) of the signal(pressure) that
>opens up the wastegates. It bleeds it off back to the intake. Bleeding of
>the signal will cause the wastegates to not open or not open fully.

Yes, this is correct !

>So what I did was I unplugged the hose from the wastegate solenoid to the
>wastegates. I plugged up the nipple on the solenoid to prevent un-filtered
>air from going bacd to the intake, and I plugged up the open end of the hose
>I just removed from the solenoid to prevent any loss of signal to the
>wastegates. My thinking was to eliminate the wastegate solenoid from the
>setup, plugging up the hose should allow full signal(pressure) to reach the
>wastegates and open them up fully.

Yes, this is the absolutely correct way to eliminate the stock boost
solenoid valve.

>I took it for a test drive. My car never went past .59bar. Overboost problem
>solved, or partially diagnosed.

Nah, it should not boost abouve 0.4 kg/cm2

>intake. If so, are the wastegate solenoids known to go bad?

I doubt that this was the problem but I belive that you measured boost at
the wrong position.

>I'll opt for the boost controller, any opinions on boost controllers besides
>the Blitz DSBC.

Yes, the new iD-SBC from Blitz... the best you can get at the moment !

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:36:36 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.(was What is stoc k boost for a 95 VR-4? )

>description is sounds like the wastegates have their own pressure sensors
>that cause them to open at a given (and I'm assuming non-adjustable)
>pressure.

They are spring-loaded and starts to open at a specific pressure (~4-6 psi,
non-adjustable)

> If the latter is the case, then what's the purpose of the
>wastegate solenoid? And would replacing the wastegate solenoid with a
>contraption that only opened at a predefined pressure (say, .9 bar)
>effectively control boost?

No, you have to alternate the pressure to the wastegate actuators to
provide a smooth boost without big spikes !

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:43:14 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

Darren,

You have the infamous "honking goose". It is a resonance that is set up
somehow with the air flowing through the K&N filter. I will send you a wav
file recording of it if you like, for your listening pleasure. The way to
kill the honking goose is to replace the stock BOV with a DSM BOV, which
costs less than $150 with the adapter. It will also allow you to hold a
stable boost level longer.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schilberg, Darren [SMTP:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:29 AM
> To: Team3S (E-mail)
> Subject: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay
>
> I remember this thread a long time ago so let me dredge it up again.
>
> My car with a K&N FIPK was doing perfect for a while. Then I go and
> disconnect the vacuum lines to the turbo bypass valve (aka BOV) and
> re-connect it then look in the Y-pipes for oil and such and re-connect
> those.
>
> Now on occasions I get the "owl hoot" from the engine bay (most recently
> was
> yesterday in Second gear at 5,000 rpm). Is there any cure for this and
> how
> did it happen in the first place when all was quiet beforehand.
>
> Nothing damaging but since it does not happen all the time it breaks my
> concentration sometimes. Unnerving since I don't think there is a cure
> for
> it.
>
> --Flash!
> dschilberg@freemarkets.com
>
> 3Si #577
> 1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
> plate
> http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg
>
> *** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:44:19 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Knock sensor question?

>firewall. You just hook up a resistor and LED on the output wire from the
>ECU and watch to see if the light is continually on.

Nah, this doesn't work on our cars.

>"smoother" so flickering is okay. If it is on all the time, then the ECU
>has detected excessive knock and is trying to reduce boost to reduce the
>amount of knock.

No, it is always on after a particular amount of air sensed compared to the
rpm and the calculated load (i.e to control boost)

>It essentially functions the same as it does for the DSM guys. For 2G cars,
>look here:

Not really, it's the same stuff but we measure another amount of air and
our ECU doesn't work the same way to control boost.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:48:40 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

Roger,

What a cool idea! I will try it on my '94 since I already bought the DSM
BOV for the '93!

I had no idea it was ADJUSTABLE!

Does this affect the boost level? My DSM BOV added 1 psi to the boost level
I had set on my manunal boost controller.

Chuck

> One of the easist fix is to unhook the stock bypass vlave and to turn it a
>
> little more and also to not push it into the intake rubber intake part. I
> did this on a customers car who didn't want to pay sooo much for an
> aftermarket BOV and since then he never experienced the "owl" sound again.
>
>

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:46:40 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.

>I agree with this, I doubt a new solenoid is the answer. If the solenoid
is
>mechanically bad, if anything the boost would go down or remain the same.

I'm confused, if this is true, why then when eliminating the solenoid from
the setup by unplugging the hose from the bottom nipple and plugging up the
open end of the hose I disconnected from the solenoid, my car will never see
past .59bar. However leaving the hose open(not plugging it up and still not
attached to the solenoid) my car will overboost. It peaks the same as when
it was plugged to the solenoid. This leads me believe that fault is in the
solenoid, seems as if it is always in an open position.

There are two hoses connected to the wastegate solenoid. The top hose leads
to the intake of the rear turbo. The second hose which I disconnected leads
to a four-way connector.

The 4 points on the four-way connector connect to the following:
1.The wastegate for the rear turbo
2.The wastegate for the front turbo
3.The intake path to the throttle body
4.The wastegate solenoid.

A leak in any of the hoses at these points would affect the signal going to
the wastegates and cause an overboost situation. Since un-plugging the
bottom hose of the solenoid(connects to point 4 of the fourway connector)
and plugging up the hose, my car does not overboost.......I would think that
there is nothing wrong from that hose down meaning any leaks with the hoses
connecting to the fourway connector, or the wastegates. So all that's left
now is the solenoid, and being that if I bring the solenoid back into the
picture my car will overboost again......I think the problem is in the
solenoid.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:54 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem.

> My guess is that the peak is for a short duration and is due
> to the increased turbo spool-up speed.

What increased the spool-up rate?

> I doubt that replacing the stock boost control solenoid
> will solve the overboost, though perhaps you could
> borrow one from a TT/VR4 owner in the neighborhood.

I agree with this, I doubt a new solenoid is the answer. If the solenoid is
mechanically bad, if anything the boost would go down or remain the same.

> Most likely, the ECU and stock solenoid can't handle
> the faster spoolup times (the ECU has a lot of other
> things to do too).

The ECU doesn't really try to control the boost level. It does try to
flatten out the curve a little bit, but it has no idea of what the boost
pressure actually is. I think there is probably an air leak somewhere in
the hoses or connectors between the Y-pipe connection and the wastegates or
boost control solenoid. Only a leak should allow overboost.

> An electronic boost controller will solve overboost since it
> has a cpu dedicated to boost control and will probably react
> faster than the ECU.

Even with the stock boost control solenoid open at all times the car
shouldn't overboost. Of course a better method of boost control is always
an advantage - but I think there's probably a simpler (and less expensive)
solution here somewhere if the only goal is to eliminate the overboost.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:50:09 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: "Owl hoot" in engine bay

>I had no idea it was ADJUSTABLE!

No, not adjustable. It's just the way it is placed and how tight and so on.
I drove my car for years without the owl then upgraded to the HKS BOV.
Later I went back to the stock BPV and got the owl with everything having
the same. I tried to change the stuff a little but more or less I always
got the sound. It worked twice but it may also not work on other cars.

>Does this affect the boost level? My DSM BOV added 1 psi to the boost level
>I had set on my manunal boost controller.

It can but it may not. The stock BPV has a small hole in it so there is
passing some pressure back into the intake. But with this the release is
smoother and the 1 psi loss can be adjusted anyways if a boost controller
is used.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:54:30 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem

>>>And where have you hooked the boost gauge to ?
The same place you have your DSBC hooked up to for the boost guage feature
of the DSBC.

>>>Nah, it should not boost abouve 0.4 kg/cm2
Ok, being that the solenoid is eliminated from the setup and I peak at
.59bar. You say I should not be going past .4bar. So then I may have a leak
somewhere from the bottom hose of the solenoid down, or the actuators
themselves?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:33 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Found what was causing my overboost problem

>high as 1.12bar. Keep in mind I have had no mods on my car other than a K&N
>before installing the downpipe and gutting the cats. Also my boost readings
>were taken from an aftermarket boost guage.

And where have you hooked the boost gauge to ?

>controlled on our cars. (Correct me if I'm wrong)Basically the wastegate
>solenoid bleeds off some(or all, not sure) of the signal(pressure) that
>opens up the wastegates. It bleeds it off back to the intake. Bleeding of
>the signal will cause the wastegates to not open or not open fully.

Yes, this is correct !

>So what I did was I unplugged the hose from the wastegate solenoid to the
>wastegates. I plugged up the nipple on the solenoid to prevent un-filtered
>air from going bacd to the intake, and I plugged up the open end of the
hose
>I just removed from the solenoid to prevent any loss of signal to the
>wastegates. My thinking was to eliminate the wastegate solenoid from the
>setup, plugging up the hose should allow full signal(pressure) to reach the
>wastegates and open them up fully.

Yes, this is the absolutely correct way to eliminate the stock boost
solenoid valve.

>I took it for a test drive. My car never went past .59bar. Overboost
problem
>solved, or partially diagnosed.

Nah, it should not boost abouve 0.4 kg/cm2

>intake. If so, are the wastegate solenoids known to go bad?

I doubt that this was the problem but I belive that you measured boost at
the wrong position.

>I'll opt for the boost controller, any opinions on boost controllers
besides
>the Blitz DSBC.

Yes, the new iD-SBC from Blitz... the best you can get at the moment !

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***

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End of team3s V1 #406
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