team3s
Saturday, February 10
2001 Volume 01 :
Number
403
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:56:03 -0600
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <
kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: clutch trouble
> You may want to buy a slave cylinder rebuild
kit (~ $8) and flush out
> your old fluid and try the Ford Heavy Duty (~
$3.50 pint). Also,
> SpeedBleeders make bleeding slave cylinders (as
well as brake
> calipers) real easy.
I was under the impression
that I would have to replace the slave,
but that's very good news $$-wise. I
will definitely give it a try.
One of the odd things about this problem
is that the car has *not*
does this when it was cold. It only occurs after
I've driven around
town for 30 minutes or more. I park it for a few hours
and get back
in it, and it's fine again for a while. Maybe an
indicator?
regards,
Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:18:49
-0800
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: clutch trouble
I have had this problem on two Stealth
turbo's, and am currently dealing with my shop to find this problems root cause
as well.
The shop told me my clutch is slipping...funny, I have a
Centerforce DF clutch that I had installed not 9 months ago, and I have never
launched the car hard at all!
I'll keep everyone posted.
Dan
Jett
94 Stealth TT
lotsa mods, but stock boost!
>>> <
kalla@tripoint.org> - 2/8/01 6:29 PM
>>>
I've been having trouble getting the vr-4 to go into gear
sometimes.
Its felt as if I was losing clutch pressure. Tonight it was doing
it
again so I put the car in first, and pressed the clutch pedal all the
way to the floor. I released the brake, and the car moved forward.
So
obviously the clutch is not disengagin completely.
So, what should I
check first? slave or master cylinder? I just bled
the clutch about 1k miles
ago (and the reservoir was full this
afternoon) so I don't think it's fluid
related.
Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:50:20
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: clutch trouble
> The shop told me my clutch is
slipping...funny, I
> have a Centerforce DF clutch that I had
installed
> not 9 months ago, and I have never launched the
> car
hard at all!
The Centerforce DF I put in my Eclipse GSX went south in
only 10,000 miles
of regular commuter driving and a couple autocrosses, even
though I never
dropped the clutch or did dragrace starts with it. The
first time I did do
a dragrace with it at the Diamond Star Shootout in 1998
the clutch was toast
right on the line and slipped badly. There was no
longevity there for me on
that clutch, so I switched to ACT which I've been
happy with since.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:03:09
-0800
From: "Steve Clarke" <
steven-c@e-d-a.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Going Both Ways
<Merritt wrote:
<
<"I am approaching a
decision point, and thought I'd ask you folks for
some
<help.
<The question is: Which car to modify? Which one
becomes a race car and
<which one stays street?"
Hi,
This is my
first post to the Digest. I am a little late reading my Team3S
digest,
but I have a related concern.
I have run my VR4 at "Drivers School",
"Open Track" and similar events for
the last 4 years (on and off). I
have also come to the conclusion, that
properly set-up the VR4/TT is very
competitive, even against exotic sports
cars.
I have finally bit the
bullet and am going for a full SCCA competition
license. I am starting
with a leased race car as I try to figure out where
a fully race prepped VR4
would fit in SCCA regs.
This turns out to be a potential problem for
us. I am working through my
copy of the SCCA's General Competition
Rules and it seems that VR4/TT's fall
foul of several of the SCCA's standing
rules. As I understand the GCR's for
2001, AWD and 4WS are banned from
regional and national competition.
So the real question seems to be,
under what sanctioning body can we race?
Alternatively, we could get a
bunch of like minded VR4/TT and other AWD fans
together and start lobbying
the SCCA for a suitable class.
Thoughts, anybody.
Steve
Clarke
Yellow 94 VR4
Orinda, CA
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:19:15
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Going Both Ways
>
>I have finally bit the bullet and
am going for a full SCCA competition
>license. I am starting with a
leased race car as I try to figure out where
>a fully race prepped VR4
would fit in SCCA regs.
It doesn't.
>This turns out to be a
potential problem for us. I am working through my
>copy of the
SCCA's General Competition Rules and it seems that VR4/TT's fall
>foul of
several of the SCCA's standing rules. As I understand the GCR's
for
>2001, AWD and 4WS are banned from regional and national
competition.
Yep.
>
>So the real question seems to be, under
what sanctioning body can we race?
You might try the Motorola Challenge
Series.
As I recall, they put us in the same class as Vipers,
though.
You can also try NASA, out of Phoenix:.
National Auto Sport
Association
http://www.nasaproracing.com>
>
>Alternatively,
we could get a bunch of like minded VR4/TT and other AWD fans
>together
and start lobbying the SCCA for a suitable class.
Lotsa
luck.
>
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:24:10
-0800
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: clutch trouble
Interesting, and I know this has been
hashed out before, but I have had four Centerforces, and have had decent life
out of all of them. I wonder if there is a quality control issue with
Midway/Centerforce?
Dan J
>>> "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com> -
2/9/01 11:50 AM >>>
> The shop told me my clutch is
slipping...funny, I
> have a Centerforce DF clutch that I had
installed
> not 9 months ago, and I have never launched the
> car
hard at all!
>The Centerforce DF I put in my Eclipse GSX went south in
only 10,000 miles
>of regular commuter driving and a couple autocrosses,
even though I never
>dropped the clutch or did dragrace starts with
it. The first time I did do
>a dragrace with it at the Diamond Star
Shootout in 1998 the clutch was toast
>right on the line and slipped
badly. There was no longevity there for me on
>that clutch, so I
switched to ACT which I've been happy with since.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:39:11
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Going Both Ways
NASA is running driving schools and races at
Texas World Speedway for the
first time this year. Maybe I can find
something out this weekend. Running
against Vipers seems fair, so long
as we are only running on wet tracks!
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Merritt [
SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:19 PM
> To: Steve Clarke;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Going Both Ways
>
> >
> >I have
finally bit the bullet and am going for a full SCCA competition
>
>license. I am starting with a leased race car as I try to figure
out
> where
> >a fully race prepped VR4 would fit in SCCA
regs.
>
> It doesn't.
>
> >This turns out to be a
potential problem for us. I am working through my
> >copy of the
SCCA's General Competition Rules and it seems that VR4/TT's
> fall
>
>foul of several of the SCCA's standing rules. As I understand the
GCR's
> for
> >2001, AWD and 4WS are banned from regional and
national competition.
>
> Yep.
> >
> >So the
real question seems to be, under what sanctioning body can we
>
race?
>
> You might try the Motorola Challenge Series.
> As
I recall, they put us in the same class as Vipers, though.
>
> You
can also try NASA, out of Phoenix:.
> National Auto Sport
Association
http://www.nasaproracing.com>
> >
> >
> >Alternatively, we could get a bunch of
like minded VR4/TT and other AWD
> fans
> >together and start
lobbying the SCCA for a suitable class.
>
> Lotsa luck.
>
>
> Rich/old poop
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:37:36
-0800
From: Jay Stump <
jstump@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Suspension
I have a 91 RT TT Bearing and the bearing race went out. I am
replacing
the bearings trailing arm, and I figured while I had it apart I
might as
well rebuild the CV joints. Also while it is apart, I thought I
would
upgrade the Springs and Struts. the car is a street car with
frequent
trips to road racing course. From the archives I was thinking that
the
GC springs and the Gab struts would be my choice. Does anyone have
any
suggestions on struts and shocks, as well as camber adjustment
plates.
Thanks for your help!!!!!!!!!!!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:46:36
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Suspension
I like the GC setups. I haven't needed
camber adjustment plates, but would
install them if I had them. I
prefer tehe stock Mitsu shocks so I can keep
the ECS option. This is
important for comfort on the street and for being
able to soften the
suspension on a wet track - trust me, it makes a big
difference. Are
the Gab struts manually adjustable for stiffness (like dial
in)?
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Stump [
SMTP:jstump@erols.com]
> Sent:
Friday, February 09, 2001 5:38 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Suspension
>
> I have a 91 RT TT Bearing and the
bearing race went out. I am replacing
> the bearings trailing arm, and I
figured while I had it apart I might as
> well rebuild the CV joints. Also
while it is apart, I thought I would
> upgrade the Springs and Struts. the
car is a street car with frequent
> trips to road racing course. From the
archives I was thinking that the
> GC springs and the Gab struts would be
my choice. Does anyone have any
> suggestions on struts and shocks, as
well as camber adjustment plates.
> Thanks for your
help!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:08:01
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Going Both Ways
I thought I read somewhere that because of
our superior advantage we were
banned from some form of organized SCCA
racing. Any truth to that myth?
- --Flash!
Hoping I have an
"outlawed" race car
- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [
mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent:
Friday, February 09, 2001 15:19
To: Steve Clarke;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Going Both Ways
>
>I have finally bit the bullet and
am going for a full SCCA competition
>license. I am starting with a
leased race car as I try to figure out where
>a fully race prepped VR4
would fit in SCCA regs.
It doesn't.
>So the real question
seems to be, under what sanctioning body can we race?
You might try the
Motorola Challenge Series.
As I recall, they put us in the same class as
Vipers, though.
You can also try NASA, out of Phoenix:.
National Auto
Sport Association
http://www.nasaproracing.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:17:42
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Going Both Ways
not advertising for them, but since the topic
came up ...
Check out their website:
http://www.NASATX.com> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Schilberg, Darren [
SMTP:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:08 PM
> To: 'Merritt'; Steve Clarke;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Going Both Ways
>
>
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:11:08
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: PocketLOGGER (revised !)
What about hybrid cars like the 94 and
95? Any chance they might try to
make one for all
years.
Sam
>
>
>>6) not fully compatible with
3000GT / Stealths !!!!! (just the same like
>>the TMO
Datalogger)
>
>Not yet solved because Mike was not aware of
this.
>
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:11:18
-0800
From: Mihai Raicu <
aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Knock sensor question?
Hey Guys,
I know this probably sounds too
easy, but hear me out and tell me your
opinions. Has anybody tried the
following scenario:
Plug in the TMO Datalogger and at the same time a
voltmeter on the knock
jack sensor in the middle of the cylinders on the
right side of the
engine. The point of this would be to see what
happens to the knock
sensor VOLT values when your car is experiencing
knock.
My brother and I tried this on his 94 TT. Of course we can’t
hook up a
datalogger, but we just hooked up a voltmeter. At idle we
were getting
15 mV, at city cruising speeds (turbos not spooled up) we were
getting
28 mV, and when the turbos were fully spooled up (~1 bar) we
were
getting 75 mV. Now, we did not do these tests very
extensively.
For more extensive tests, what do you guys think of th
following idea:
Once, when I have little gas in the tank, I can put 2 gal of
bad gas (86
octane) and drive the car hard once in 2nd and 3rd gear. If
I record
all this, maybe I can playback and see if any spikes or drops in
voltage
occur. I think knock should happen if I run the car @ 1 bar
with 86
octane gas.
Is this too crazy of an idea (I know it is bad for
the car)? Has
anybody done this or the 1st idea (1st gen, TMO,
Voltmeter)?
Thanks everyone,
- -MIKE-
95 Red
VR4
John
94 Pearl Yellow TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:28:42
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Air
Flow
What is the air flow (CFM) for the 13G, 15G, and 18G turbo's
respectively.
Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:48:30
-0500
From: "Dan Mecier" <
dmecier@ka.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Knock sensor question?
Mike
I have one thing to say: DON'T DO
IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not
underestimate the damage that
significant detonation can do to your engine,
even in a short period of time.
It's not worth it. You may end up with a
method of monitoring the knock
sensor but it might cost you an engine in the
process. I have an engine in my
basement with a broken piston that is a
direct result of detonation. I don't
think you want that do you? Find
someone with the TMO to test out your idea.
It's the only conclusive way to
do it anyway.
My .02
Dan
Mecier
1994 3000GT VR-4
<<For more extensive tests, what do you guys
think of th following idea:
Once, when I have little gas in the tank, I can
put 2 gal of bad gas (86
octane) and drive the car hard once in 2nd and 3rd
gear. If I record
all this, maybe I can playback and see if any spikes
or drops in voltage
occur. I think knock should happen if I run the car
@ 1 bar with 86
octane gas.
Is this too crazy of an idea (I know it is
bad for the car)? Has
anybody done this or the 1st idea (1st gen, TMO,
Voltmeter)?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:59:10
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Air Flow
Approximately 360, 424, 520.
I have a fairly
comprehensive turbo upgrade guide at the url below.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
StealthCT@aol.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, February 10, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: Team3S: Air Flow
What is
the air flow (CFM) for the 13G, 15G, and 18G turbo's
respectively.
Regards
Charles
__________________________________________________
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Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:19:06
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Knock sensor question?
> Plug in the TMO Datalogger and at
the same time a voltmeter on the knock
> jack sensor in the middle of the
cylinders on the right side of the
> engine. The point of this would
be to see what happens to the knock
> sensor VOLT values when your car is
experiencing knock.
Yes, unfortunately this sounds too easy. Here is why
it doesn't work :
The knock sensor acts like a microphone. Although the
manual is telling us
that the voltage produced by the knock sensor is linear
to the vibrations of
the block the sensor itselfs also sends a frequency.
This frequency together
with the amplitude of the signal must be analyzed to
make sure real knock is
isolated by false knock ! This needs more than only a
voltmeter that reads
millivolts (the amplitude range of the sensor) but a
circuit that isolates
the correct danger frequencies (fourier analysis). This
is what the ECU does
with a hardware circuit together with its internal
program. ALso the engine
produces more vibrations when cold and therefore the
different sensor inputs
to the ECU are used to change the sensitivity with
software wise.
The MSD knock sensor works the very same way and it uses
an analog circuit
to finally present the amount of knock on a 10 LED bar
graph.
When using a voltmeter or build one of your own, it is risky as
the
impedance of the measurment circuit has an influence to the knock circuit
in
the ECU. People who already tried to do this fried the ECU part or the
knock
sensor itselfs.
The idea of hooking up the voltmeter is not new
but at the end is not that
simple. But it would be interesting to see if we
can find a significant
change in the voltage when real knock appears. For
this, a logging device
that records the voltage, rpm and time is necessary
when doing the
comparison to the datalogger. This is not easy to do but also
not
impossible. My sensor logger is able to do this but the voltage
sensing
device doesn't read in this small millivolt region. Then the two data
must
be synchronised to get the technically correct
comparison.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:08:37
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Air
Flow
Thanks for the info. I assume that the larger turbo's are able
to produce
more boost and maintain higher boost levels than the
smaller turbo's. At 1
bar (14PSI) I assume all turbo's are producing
the same boost level so
therefore the only advantage of a larger turbo at 1
bar would be it's ability
to produce 14 PSI more efficiently therby reducing
heat and increasing usable
HP to the wheels. Is this assumption
correct? Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:06:59
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Air Flow
Not necessarily. Larger turbos tend to have their
best efficiency at
higher flow levels, so 14 psi boost air from a larger
turbo may be
just as "hot" as from a smaller one. It is best to consult
compressor
efficiiency maps with the engine air flow demand lines
superimposed.
Maps for the 15G and 18T (thanks to Mikael Kenson) are
available at
my web site (look in the Quick Jump list) and at Mikael's web
site.
The IC efficiency is far more important than the
compressor
efficiency because a superb IC will lower any compressed air temp
to
near ambient.
I have a turbo outlet air temp calculator on my web
page below if you
are curious as to just how hot that air gets. :)
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-turbotemp.htm
The biggest advantage of "larger" turbos is their ability to
flow
enough air at high engine RPM to develop high boost levels.
The
little stock 9B just can't flow enough air to develop 20 psi boost
at
6000 RPM in our engines. The 15G is the entry level turbo for 20 psi
at
6000 RPM.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
StealthCT@aol.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: Team3S: Air Flow
Thanks
for the info. I assume that the larger turbo's are able to
produce
more boost and maintain higher boost levels than the
smaller
turbo's. At 1 bar (14PSI) I assume all turbo's are producing
the
same boost level so therefore the only advantage of a larger turbo
at
1 bar would be it's ability to produce 14 PSI more efficiently
therby
reducing heat and increasing usable HP to the wheels. Is
this
assumption correct? Regards Charles
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Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:01:22
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Air
Flow
Thanks for the info. I am going to the AAM 18G turbo's with a
front mounted
intercooler, Paxon external fuel pump, 720 injectors, and
forged pistons and
rods. I am assuming based on the charts you
referred me to that this set up
should support 24PSI. Regards
Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#403
*********************