team3s
Monday, February 5
2001 Volume 01
: Number
398
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:10:04 -0500
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Spare Tire?
I have one! From my '91 Stealth TT that was
parted out..
Get in touch, I'll get you your spare =)
Ken
Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester
(NY)
"Donnelly, Michael" wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm
trying to locate when I can get a hold of a spare tire for my '94 R/T
>
TT. Does anyone have any ideas? Is there a psuedo tire or 'donute'
that I
> can get cheep from someone or do you think that a search of the
local
> junkyards is in order?
>
> Mike Donnelly
> '94
R/T TT
> 62,000 miles
>
> *** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:27:36
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Technical Information Manual
The complete Stealth TIM is now
available at my web site.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-stim.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:43:27
+0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Best Year VR-4
I'm looking to get rid of
my base model 97 3000GT and go after a VR-4. From earlier posts, I noticed
emails about what year VR-4 is the best and most people were stuck on either 94s
or 95s. I myself, after reading those posts, am trying to decide on
whether or not to go after a 94, 95, or 99. I do like the way the 99's
look, though perhaps moreso because of the spoiler than anything. So I was
wondering if I could get anymore feed back from you VR-4 owners and know-it-alls
out there... what year in your opinions is the best VR-4 and
why?
So you guys know ahead of time, I'm not looking
to do a shit load of work to the car like some others. I'm looking to do
some engine rebuilding with stronger parts, bigger turbos, and some other basics
(exhuast, etc). I've done lots of researching from the 3si and team3s
pages and I'm really can't decide... but I also have no experience with the
cars. So those with experience dealing with them... what do you guys
think? thanks in advance.
John
1997 3000GT
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e24/7 email at http://www.e247.com
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& receive large files with 100MB of storage
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:50:03
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
<chanting> 95!
95! 95!
Actually the 94-96 of Stealth or 3000GT is best and
then an aftermarket wing
to mimic a 99. This will save about $20k on
the car and save you some
(lots) for maintenance.
Remember that the
first gen had OBDII diagnostics. Second gen had more
horsepower as
stock and larger calipers, wheels, 6-speed tranny, etc.
I love both
designs (first and second gen) but definitely nothing newer than
the 96
model.
I did like the gadgets of Active Aero (mine has it) and Active
Suspension
(mine sadly does not have it). It is up to you but I think a
second gen is
your cup of tea.
And from the inside and under the body
panels the VR-4 and R/T TT is
identical.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com
3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 with Active Aero
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg
-
-----Original Message-----
From: John Stegall III [mailto:john.stegall@e247.com]
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 14:43
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject:
Team3S: Best Year VR-4
I'm looking to get rid of
my base model 97 3000GT and go after a VR-4.
From earlier posts, I noticed
emails about what year VR-4 is the best and
most people were stuck on either
94s or 95s. I myself, after reading those
posts, am trying to decide on
whether or not to go after a 94, 95, or 99. I
do like the way the 99's
look, though perhaps moreso because of the spoiler
than anything. So I
was wondering if I could get anymore feed back from you
VR-4 owners and
know-it-alls out there... what year in your opinions is the
best VR-4 and
why?
So you guys know ahead of time, I'm not looking
to do a shit load of
work to the car like some others. I'm looking to
do some engine rebuilding
with stronger parts, bigger turbos, and some other
basics (exhuast, etc).
I've done lots of researching from the 3si and team3s
pages and I'm really
can't decide... but I also have no experience with the
cars. So those with
experience dealing with them... what do you guys
think? thanks in advance.
John
1997 3000GT
***
Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:54:40
-0800
From: Yuloesen Yunus <yuloesen@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: 93 SL offset
Yo all
If any expert here know the offset for
93 SL, could somebody help me out
please?
the tire on the car is
225/55/R16.
Thanks y'all
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:58:32
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
I think the consensus was that the '94 or the
early year '95 VR4's had as
many bells and whistles as you could get on one
machine.The '99 is the holy
grail of cars. My son is trying to get one,
and they get sold immediately
upon being advertised. I think you can
get the '99 version spoiler and
install it on an earlier car, if that's your
pleasure. Mitsu started
shaving gadgets, actually with the '94 version
that had no pop-up
headlights. Then later the Active Aero disappeared
('late '95?), ECS
disappeared, and also electronic exhaust. With '94
you get the 6 speed
transmission and improved brakes at the cost of pop-up
headlights, a fair
trade. You can probably still find a low mileage '94
that you can get an
extended warranty on (like I did).
Best
year? To paraphrase Woody Allen, "the worst VR4 is
perfectly
marvelous".
How much money do you have in your pocket?
The less you pay for the car,
the more you can speed on toys to go with it!
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Stegall
III [SMTP:john.stegall@e247.com]
>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:43 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>
Subject: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
>
>
I'm looking to get rid of my base model 97 3000GT and go after a
>
VR-4. From earlier posts, I noticed emails about what year VR-4 is
the
> best and most people were stuck on either 94s or 95s. I
myself, after
> reading those posts, am trying to decide on whether or not
to go after a
> 94, 95, or 99. I do like the way the 99's look,
though perhaps moreso
> because of the spoiler than anything. So I
was wondering if I could get
> anymore feed back from you VR-4 owners and
know-it-alls out there... what
> year in your opinions is the best VR-4
and why?
> So you guys know ahead of time,
I'm not looking to do a shit load of
> work to the car like some
others. I'm looking to do some engine
> rebuilding with stronger
parts, bigger turbos, and some other basics
> (exhuast, etc). I've
done lots of researching from the 3si and team3s
> pages and I'm really
can't decide... but I also have no experience with
> the cars. So
those with experience dealing with them... what do you guys
> think?
thanks in advance.
>
> John
> 1997 3000GT
>
>
Get your free e24/7 email at http://www.e247.com
> Send & receive
large files with 100MB of storage
>
> *** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:03:19
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: dumb question for the day
Can somebody explain the principle of
operation of the all wheel steering?
I know the rear wheels are suppose to
turn slightly in response to front
steering (like 2 degrees or so) but in
what direction? Do they turn in the
opposite direction of the front
wheels, or the same direction? At how much
steering input?
(read the
question carefully: I am not asking whether the front and rear
wheel
ROTATE in the same direction!)
Chuck
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:08:05
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day
> Can somebody explain the
principle of operation of the all
> wheel steering?
Look at the
Tech Info Manual that Jeff sent out a little while ago.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-stim.htm
To
answer the question directly, they turn the same direction as the fronts
- -
same-phase steering.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:09:39
+0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
Well, my only response to this is that
I've heard there's lots of problems with the 6-speed getrag trannies and also
that they can't be rebuilt (or it'd be cheaper to find a used or buy a new one
than to rebuild it).
One other question... is there any way for me to
differentiage a vr-4 from sl and base models using the vin #s. I'm looking
on auto trader and I'm willing to drive a great distance if the price on the car
is good.
John
1997 3000GT
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:17:20
-0500
From: "Judson Smith" <jsmith@fmbs.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
dumb question for the day
Look, it's like this if you turn right, your
back wheels "turn" left a bit
to corner. Think about it, they "couldn't"
right. You wouldn't be able to
turn.
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Willis, Charles E. <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
'Judson Smith' <jsmith@fmbs.com>;
Willis, Charles E.
<cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>;
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dumb question for the
day
> Okay, I just got two different answers to the same
question.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
Judson Smith [SMTP:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> > Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:12 PM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: dumb question for the day
> >
> >
Chuck....the wheels turn in the "opposite" direction. If they turned the
>
> same direction, the car would crash at high speeds...Yes, this
question
is
> > dumb...but I'm overlooking that. Have a good
day.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Willis,
Charles E. <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
> To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:03 PM
> > Subject: Team3S: dumb
question for the day
> >
> >
> > > Can somebody
explain the principle of operation of the all wheel
> >
steering?
> > > I know the rear wheels are suppose to turn slightly
in response to
front
> > > steering (like 2 degrees or so) but in
what direction? Do they turn
in
> > the
> > >
opposite direction of the front wheels, or the same direction? At how
>
> much
> > > steering input?
> > >
> > >
(read the question carefully: I am not asking whether the front
and
> > rear
> > > wheel ROTATE in the same
direction!)
> > >
> > > Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:11:39
-0500
From: Brian Geisel <brian.geisel@compaq.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Ordering OEM Parts
Hello all,
There was a place that gave
Team3S 25% discount or so, I think
Jeremy was the guy I talked to.
Anyone remember the place we go
through?
I want to say it was somewhere in
Tenn. (or maybe it was in Talahassee
- --
too many s's & e's for
me :)
Thanx,
Brian
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:17:53
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 93 SL offset
ALL years, ALL models, turbo or not, ALL wheel
sizes, even the spare,
have 46 mm offset and 114.3 mm (4.5") pitch circle.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-wheelspecs.htm
Jeff
Lucius, www.stealth316.com
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yuloesen Yunus" <yuloesen@mail.utexas.edu>
To:
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: 93 SL offset
Yo
all
If any expert here know the offset for 93 SL, could somebody help
me
out please? the tire on the car is 225/55/R16.
Thanks
y'all
__________________________________________________
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Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:17:13
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day
> NO, I AM NOT, please explain.
If your wheels turned in the
> same direction, it would be impossible to
turn.
Are you making this up? Where's your source of
information?
The rear wheels only turn about 2 degrees, and only at
speeds above 40 MPH
or so.
Here's my source of information:
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-02.gif
Stealth
Technical Information manual. Also many discussions about this on
this
very list, and widely available data about the AWS systems.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001
20:25:29 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
Okay, I'm now one
confused idiot. I'm hearing the OBD-I connector is good and bad. I'm
hearing ups and downs to both sides. Matt, in response to what you said
about the upgraded turbos... I knew that was a bit of work, I've heard people on
the list talk about needing upgraded injectors and pumps, etc. I myself
live about 15 minutes from GT-Pro and I've spoke with Brian. It's my
understanding that on the 3000GT, all that work is only "mild" because it's only
up to Stage III, which is about where I want to go. Yes I plan on going
above the 13g turbos... I'm looking at 15s, maybe larger. My goal, isn't
to have the fastest car... or even the fastest street legal car I can get...
though pretty damn close to that ;o)
I'm
trying to learn as much as possible, and I have to say you guys here on the
Team3S list are much more help than those on the DSM list I used to be on when I
raced my talon. Let me see if I can clarify what I'd like to do to the car
in terms of mods when I manage to get it. Maybe that'll help you
out.
15g turbos (maybe larger)
Engine mods
Fuel
mods
Exhaust
not sure what else
Again I
understand that sounds like a lot. But with my talon, I spent over $10k in
mods to that car to get it above 500HP. With this car, I'd like to get
about 450 out of it, or more if its easier to do (though I'm hearing from some
sources it is, and others its not). With that all being said, now what
year should I go? Thanks again (boy did I ever get this list riled up, heh
heh).
John
1997 3000GT
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*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:13:18
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day
Okay, I just got two different
answers to the same question.
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Judson Smith [SMTP:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:12 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: dumb question for the day
>
> Chuck....the
wheels turn in the "opposite" direction. If they turned the
> same
direction, the car would crash at high speeds...Yes, this question is
>
dumb...but I'm overlooking that. Have a good day.
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:03 PM
> Subject: Team3S: dumb question
for the day
>
>
> > Can somebody explain the principle of
operation of the all wheel
> steering?
> > I know the rear wheels
are suppose to turn slightly in response to front
> > steering (like 2
degrees or so) but in what direction? Do they turn in
> the
>
> opposite direction of the front wheels, or the same direction? At
how
> much
> > steering input?
> >
> > (read
the question carefully: I am not asking whether the front and
>
rear
> > wheel ROTATE in the same direction!)
> >
> >
Chuck
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:20:12
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Ordering OEM Parts
Look on the Garage and Links pages at my
web site for complete
information.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/1-repair.htm
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/1-links-t.htm
Jeff
Lucius, www.stealth316.com
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Geisel" <brian.geisel@compaq.com>
To:
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: Team3S: Ordering OEM
Parts
Hello all,
There was a place that gave Team3S 25% discount or
so, I think
Jeremy was the guy I talked to. Anyone remember the place
we go
through? I want to say it was somewhere in Tenn. (or maybe it was
in
Talahassee --
too many s's & e's for me
:)
Thanx,
Brian
__________________________________________________
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personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
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Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:15:04
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
I know I didn't follow the thread earlier but
I thought the calipers are
definitely different. That's why the Big
Reds are not a bolt-on upgrade to
the first gen cars. Maybe is a combo
of a smaller rotor and smaller wheel
that kills it.
Regardless ... you
need to narrow down your search like Matt said (adding
one thing is a domino
effect to another) so best of luck regardless.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com
3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4
Still no datalogger and using the seat-of-my-pants
tool
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:39:34
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day
Ever notice how cranky everybody is
on Mondays?
I asked the question, because I think the way it really works
is
non-obvious. After reading the TIM, I'm still somewhat confused, but
it
sure says in-phase with front steering at medium and high speeds, and
not
active at low speeds.
When I first considered this, I took it for
granted that the rear wheels
turned opposite of the fronts - that made sense
to me then.
But if you think about what is going on with the tire, you've
turned the
front wheels so the car wants to go left (say), the rear wheels
are still
pointed dead ahead, since the car body is going left, and the rear
wheels
are still rotating, there is a slip angle - the tire is twisted left
to keep
rolling with the wheel still pointing right. Turning the rear
wheels to the
left (the same direction as the front) relieves the slip angle
by 2 degrees
making it easier for the rear tires to contine to
rotate.
Judson is right in one respect, at low speed, it would be harder
to turn if
the rear wheels turned in phase with the fronts, that's why they
don't. If
they turned in the opposite direction of the fronts, they
would INCREASE the
slip angle of the rear tires and pushing the contact patch
closer to the
limit of adhesion which would make it easier to OVERSTEER - the
rear end
would come around easier, but not under
control.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Judson Smith [SMTP:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:24 PM
> To: Jannusch, Matt; Willis, Charles
E.; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: dumb question for the day
>
> Matt, the wheels
do NOT turn in the same direction. That would NOT be
> turning. If , say
at 80MPH you turn right, your rear wheels are going to
> pivot that 1 -2
degrees left to TURN right.
>
>
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
>
To: 'Judson Smith' <jsmith@fmbs.com>;
Willis, Charles E.
> <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>;
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:17 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: dumb
question for the day
>
>
> > > NO, I AM NOT, please
explain. If your wheels turned in the
> > > same direction, it would
be impossible to turn.
> >
> > Are you making this up?
Where's your source of information?
> >
> > The rear wheels
only turn about 2 degrees, and only at speeds above 40
> MPH
> >
or so.
> >
> > Here's my source of information:
>
>
> > http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-02.gif
>
>
> > Stealth Technical Information manual. Also many
discussions about this
> on
> > this very list, and widely
available data about the AWS systems.
> >
> > -Matt
>
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:31:10
-0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
>r in your opinions is the best VR-4 and
why?
> So you guys know ahead of time, I'm not
looking to do a shit load of
work to the car like some others. I'm
looking to do some engine rebuilding
with stronger parts, bigger turbos, and
some other basics (exhuast, etc).
What are you going to do with
the car?
Cruise chicks on the blvd
Drag race
autocross
road
race
long distance trips
commute
weekend warrior
All things
considered, 94 is probably best because it has all the goodies,
and it is
just about done with the big depreciation. 91-93 are 1st gens
with 5 speeds
and less horsepower. Later models just cost more for the same
thing.
Rich/94 VR4
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:46:06
EST
From: OrangeFell@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
dumb question for the day
Through all of this, I am reminded of the story
of the pot calling the kettle black. Then again, this time the kettle just
wants a little clarification...
The following TIM pages will answer the
question for you Willis-
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-08.gif
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-09.gif
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-10.gif
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-11.gif
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-12.gif
What
you are attempting to describe, Judson, is an alternate phase system, as is
found on the 300ZX. May I note that that system can turn the rear wheels
in the opposite direction of the fronts upto the region of 15
degrees.
Also, let it be noted that this system is one of the first
removed from modified 300Z's because it negates a lot of the car's stability at
speed.
The system found on the 3S is same phase. Wheels turn, at
most, 1.5 degrees, at speeds in excess of 35 MPH, (or, more aptly when a
specified amount of yaw per second is achived) in the same direction as the
fronts. The system's purpose is not that of faster turning through the
radius, but for tighter control in small amounts, such as lane changes.
And Judson, if you believe you can look in your rear view during a turn
and note less than 2 degrees of wheel turn at over 35 MPH, then I have a sincere
feeling that you are the 6 Million Dollar Man, which still would not justify
calling such a question dumb.
Kenneth
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:45:40
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: dumb question for the day
The definitive explanation for our
same phase AWS is in the Stealth
Technical Information Manual. Enjoy.
:)
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-stim.htm
Jeff
Lucius, www.stealth316.com, THE source
for 3S Tech!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles E.
<cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 3:03 PM
Subject: Team3S: dumb question for the
day
Can somebody explain the principle of operation of the all
wheel
steering? I know the rear wheels are suppose to turn slightly
in
response to front steering (like 2 degrees or so) but in
what
direction? Do they turn in the opposite direction of the
front
wheels, or the same direction? At how much steering input?
(read
the question carefully: I am not asking whether the front and
rear
wheel ROTATE in the same
direction!)
Chuck
__________________________________________________
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personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
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***
Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:24:17
-0500
From: "Judson Smith" <jsmith@fmbs.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
dumb question for the day
Matt, the wheels do NOT turn in the same
direction. That would NOT be
turning. If , say at 80MPH you turn right, your
rear wheels are going to
pivot that 1 -2 degrees left to TURN
right.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
'Judson Smith' <jsmith@fmbs.com>;
Willis, Charles E.
<cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>;
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dumb question for the
day
> > NO, I AM NOT, please explain. If your wheels turned in
the
> > same direction, it would be impossible to turn.
>
>
Are you making this up? Where's your source of
information?
>
> The rear wheels only turn about 2 degrees, and only
at speeds above 40 MPH
> or so.
>
> Here's my source of
information:
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-02.gif
>
>
Stealth Technical Information manual. Also many discussions about this
on
> this very list, and widely available data about the AWS
systems.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:52:07
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
Well a stock VR-4 would be a good match
against a 500-hp Talon ... but $10k
of Talon parts is about $30-$50k of VR-4
parts. Just double every price you
ever sunk in to the Talon (gas for
me is $35 a tank every other week) and
that will let you know the price of
these cars' maintenance.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
Rebuilt tranny at 51k
installed under warranty (was free but the bill was
$1,122 for a clutch,
labor, seals, gaskets, oils, etc. and $500 of labor)
***
Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:59:30
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day
Okay, okay, settle down!
I'M
the one that called my question DUMB, specifically to be funny.
The
correct answer isn't obvious. I gave the wrong answer yesterday at
the
track, and couldn't find anyone with the right answer, although I was
too
ashamed to look real far. I didn't ask the question to embarrass
anyone
else who was as mistaken as me yesterday, but I think we have
established
that the TIM is a VERY VALUABLE RESOURCE, and ought to thank Jeff
for the
effort to make it available to all of us!
Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: OrangeFell@aol.com [SMTP:OrangeFell@aol.com]
> Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:46 PM
> To: jsmith@fmbs.com; cewillis@texaschildrenshospital.org;
>
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: dumb question for the day
>
> Through all of
this, I am reminded of the story of the pot calling the
> kettle
black. Then again, this time the kettle just wants a little
>
clarification...
>
> The following TIM pages will answer the
question for you Willis-
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-08.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-09.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-10.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-11.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-12.gif
>
> What you are attempting to describe, Judson, is an alternate phase
system,
> as is found on the 300ZX. May I note that that system can
turn the rear
> wheels in the opposite direction of the fronts upto the
region of 15
> degrees.
>
> Also, let it be noted that this
system is one of the first removed from
> modified 300Z's because it
negates a lot of the car's stability at speed.
>
> The system found
on the 3S is same phase. Wheels turn, at most, 1.5
> degrees, at
speeds in excess of 35 MPH, (or, more aptly when a specified
> amount of
yaw per second is achived) in the same direction as the fronts.
> The
system's purpose is not that of faster turning through the radius, but
>
for tighter control in small amounts, such as lane changes.
>
> And Judson, if you believe you can look in your rear view during a
turn
> and note less than 2 degrees of wheel turn at over 35 MPH, then I
have a
> sincere feeling that you are the 6 Million Dollar Man, which
still would
> not justify calling such a question dumb.
>
>
Kenneth
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:02:02
-0500
From: "Judson Smith" <jsmith@fmbs.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
dumb question for the day- FIGURED OUT!!!
Matt, Mr. Willis, and Orange
Fell.....looks like Kenneth has put this to
rest for my battle with Matt.
Kudos. Matt, no hard feelings?
Jud
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: <OrangeFell@aol.com>
To: <jsmith@fmbs.com>; <cewillis@texaschildrenshospital.org>;
<team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: dumb question for the
day
> Through all of this, I am reminded of the story of the pot
calling the
kettle black. Then again, this time the kettle just wants a
little
clarification...
>
> The following TIM pages will answer
the question for you Willis-
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-08.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-09.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-10.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-11.gif
>
http://www.3si.org/member-home/stim2/tim_19b-12.gif
>
>
What you are attempting to describe, Judson, is an alternate phase system,
as
is found on the 300ZX. May I note that that system can turn the
rear
wheels in the opposite direction of the fronts upto the region of
15
degrees.
>
> Also, let it be noted that this system is one of
the first removed from
modified 300Z's because it negates a lot of the car's
stability at speed.
>
> The system found on the 3S is same
phase. Wheels turn, at most, 1.5
degrees, at speeds in excess of 35
MPH, (or, more aptly when a specified
amount of yaw per second is achived) in
the same direction as the fronts.
The system's purpose is not that of faster
turning through the radius, but
for tighter control in small amounts, such as
lane changes.
>
> And Judson, if you believe you can look in your
rear view during a turn
and note less than 2 degrees of wheel turn at over 35
MPH, then I have a
sincere feeling that you are the 6 Million Dollar Man,
which still would not
justify calling such a question dumb.
>
>
Kenneth
>
> *** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:08:50
-0500
From: "Alan Sheffield" <a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: dumb question for the day
I had been told (By Jeff Lucius I
believe) that our AWS is passive below 35
mph and Active over
25mph
Passive = opposite phase non powered(free).
Active = same phase
powered.
Alan
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
"'Judson Smith'" <jsmith@fmbs.com>;
"Willis, Charles E."
<cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>;
<team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dumb question for the
day
> Okay, I just got two different answers to the same
question.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
Judson Smith [SMTP:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> > Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:12 PM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: dumb question for the day
> >
> >
Chuck....the wheels turn in the "opposite" direction. If they turned the
>
> same direction, the car would crash at high speeds...Yes, this
question
is
> > dumb...but I'm overlooking that. Have a good
day.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Willis,
Charles E. <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
> To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:03 PM
> > Subject: Team3S: dumb
question for the day
> >
> >
> > > Can somebody
explain the principle of operation of the all wheel
> >
steering?
> > > I know the rear wheels are suppose to turn slightly
in response to
front
> > > steering (like 2 degrees or so) but in
what direction? Do they turn
in
> > the
> > >
opposite direction of the front wheels, or the same direction? At how
>
> much
> > > steering input?
> > >
> > >
(read the question carefully: I am not asking whether the front
and
> > rear
> > > wheel ROTATE in the same
direction!)
> > >
> > > Chuck
> >
>
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:12:04
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day- FIGURED OUT!!!
Sorry, my cars'
systems are optimized for highly sophistocated cornering
abilities, rather
than brute force straightline accelleration!
(If we can't generate hard
feelings one way, we can always try another ...
;-)
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:04 PM
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: dumb question for the day- FIGURED OUT!!!
>
>
> Matt, Mr. Willis, and Orange Fell.....looks like Kenneth has
> >
put this to rest for my battle with Matt. Kudos. Matt, no
> > hard
feelings?
>
> Never any hard feelings... If there were, we
could battle it out at the
> DSM
> Shootout this year.
;-)
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
>
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:21:14
-0500
From: "Alan Sheffield" <a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: dumb question for the day
This thread on 3si.org http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=16305
Is
where I got my info.
"The 3000 is equipped with what is called dual-phase
AWS, both passive and
active. At speeds under 31mph, the system is passive
(meaning there are no
actual motors forcing the steering of the wheels one
way or another) and is
"opposite phase" (meaning if you turn right, the rear
wheels will turn left,
*passively*, just by themselves). The active phase
comes into play at speeds
in excess of 31mph as it then becomes "same phase
active", meaning the
wheels are then forced hydraulically (active vs.
passive) in the same
direction as the front wheels, up to 1.5 degrees max.
"
Just wanted to make sure my memory was close to
correct.
Alan
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:16:51
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: followup question about 4WS
Okay, so now that we have established
that 4WS works by relieving the slip
angle of the rear wheels during medium
and high speed turning, in what
situation might this actually be a BAD
thing?
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:10:28
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
> <chanting> 95!
95! 95!
No! I would say anything that has the old-style
OBD-I connector so at least
you can hook up a datalogger.
John
said:
> So you guys know ahead of time, I'm not looking to do a
> shit load of work to the car like some others. I'm
>
looking to do some engine rebuilding with stronger
> parts, bigger turbos,
and some other basics
> (exhuast, etc).
I got news for ya...
That's a "shit load of work". If you are upgrading
the turbos, you need
to upgrade the fuel system as well with larger
injectors - which means you
need a fuel controller and fuel pump also. To
do it right, you need
tuning tools - which means the Datalogger is
invaluable. To use it, you
are stuck with a '91-92, possibly a '93.
> Actually the 94-96 of
Stealth or 3000GT is best and then an
> aftermarket wing to mimic a
99. This will save about $20k
> on the car and save you some (lots)
for maintenance.
The look of the '99 is more than just the
wing....
> Remember that the first gen had OBDII diagnostics.
Second
> gen had more horsepower as stock and larger calipers,
>
wheels, 6-speed tranny, etc.
1st gen had a Mitsubishi-only OBD-I
diagnostic connector. Second gen had
more horsepower only because of a
missing restrictor insert in the boost
control solenoid. Calipers
aren't larger, just a larger rotor.
Need to decide what you want to
do. If you are talking about putting turbos
on it and tuning it, an
early car might be better suited for tuning. If you
just want a car to
drive around and have fun with with mild modifications
then a second gen
might work for you. Once you put upgraded turbos on it
(beyond 13G's)
you are past "mildly upgraded".
I personally think the 6-speed gearboxes
are better than the early 5-speed
ones, and the durability seems to be better
in most cases. Since that's the
weakest link on the car, the stronger
the better in that area.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
(Wishing I
could use a datalogger)
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001
15:49:40 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
I don't recall any general agreement that
the 6 speed is any more or less
prone to problems than the 5 speed, just that
the gear ratios are different
and you get another gear to grind. I think
there have been many discussions
about rebuilding the tranny's, and there was
a long one about getting parts
directly from Getrag and their new
owner. I think you are pretty much stuck
with either transmission if
you want a VR4. If you want one '94 or newer,
it's the 6 speed.
Is breaking the transmission part of your plan for the
car? Seriously,
the possibility of replacing a transmission is the reason
some of us like to
get an extended warranty.
Yes, you can distinguish VR4 from SL from the
VIN - it's in the service
manual (at home) and I can't seem to install my
nifty CDROM version yet.
You can look at the Stealth TIM to see how the
Stealth VIN's differ for
turbo and non-turbo.
Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: John Stegall III [SMTP:john.stegall@e247.com]
>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 2:10 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
>
Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: Best Year VR-4
>
> Well, my only response
to this is that I've heard there's lots of problems
> with the 6-speed
getrag trannies and also that they can't be rebuilt (or
> it'd be cheaper
to find a used or buy a new one than to rebuild it).
>
> One other
question... is there any way for me to differentiage a vr-4 from
> sl and
base models using the vin #s. I'm looking on auto trader and I'm
>
willing to drive a great distance if the price on the car is good.
>
> John
> 1997 3000GT
>
>
>
> Get your
free e24/7 email at http://www.e247.com
> Send & receive
large files with 100MB of storage
>
> *** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:55:01
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Technical Information Manual
The 1991 Stealth TIM and the
1990 Laser/Talon TIM (or DSM Tech,
available on the CD by Vinny) have lots of
info not in the service or
owner's manuals.
The Fuel section of the
DSM Tech is the reference section for the
Stealth TIM. I am trying to locate
a TIM that covers the SOHC. I
bought (but haven't received yet) a '96 Montero
TIM before I realized
that 1996 was when Mitsu added the 3.5L 6G74.
Hopefully, the 6G72
SOHC was still available and is covered.
As an
off topic, I bought (but haven't received yet) the Mitsu
1991-1994 Parts
Catalog on ebay; hopefully it should answer all our
parts upgrade/replacement
questions. I don't think I am up to
scanning and converting 300 or more pages
again anytime soon though.
:)
I also have the 1992-1996 Mitsu Engine
Overhaul Manual. It is not
substantially different than the 1992 one on
Vinny's CD, but it does
include 1993 6G72 changes and the 6G74. Now why did
Mitsu reduce the
valve lift on 1993+ engines? :)
Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
"'Judson Smith'" <jsmith@fmbs.com>;
<OrangeFell@aol.com>;
"Willis,
Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>;
<team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, February 05, 2001 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: dumb question for the
day
Cool manual, huh? I didn't remember seeing this stuff in my
Mitsu
Service Manual, but maybe it's in there,
too!
__________________________________________________
Get
personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
***
Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:41:14
-0500
From: smii <smii@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S:
part number for hella conversion kit
Hello everyone,
Does
anybody knowthe part number for the Hella headlight converion
kit to our 1st
generation
cars?
thank you in advance.
Boris
***
Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:56:33
-0700
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Best Year VR-4 (LONG reply)
given all the flaming going
on today, I'll just state that this is what
I believe to be true.. If
someone wants to prove me wrong, go to it!
I'd rather be corrected than
continue to have inaccurate info.. There
are question marks where I'm
not sure of my info..
there have been some random responses to this, but
not many direct
comparisons.. remember, this is specific to VR4s (and
some of it to
Stealth TTs as well)
91-93
5-sp Getrag (93 got
stronger transfer case output shaft?)
Active Aero (front and rear spoilers
lower and raise respectively)
17" wheels (painted silver with chrome
option)
Active Exhaust (just a baffle that moves to change single or
dual)
ECS Suspension (tour/sport settings - yes, it's
noticable)
pop-up headlights (pro: cheap sealed beam replacements)
no
sunroof in 91?
ability to use Datalogger (OBD I)
93+ 4-bolt
mains
94
same, but:
different style 17" wheel (always
chromed?)
6-sp Getrag
fixed glass headlights that are prone to fading
color and leaking
hybrid OBDI-OBDII (still only 2 oxygen sensors
94-95)
subtle interior changes - new steering wheel and radio
controls
different rear center 3000GT reflector
95
same,
but:
18" 6 spoke chromed wheels
no Active Exhaust (a good thing in my
book.. PITA)
early 95 has manual huge glass sunroof
late 95 goes to
power metal sunroof (problem with lowering springs)
fixed lexan (?)
headlights (scratch easier, but don't leak/fade)
96
same, but:
no
ECS
OBDII with 4 oxygen sensors (some diagnostic scanning
ability?)
97-98
"loop"
spoiler?
don't know enough else to comment
99
"3rd-gen" cosmetics
big "park bench" spoiler
"bubble-top" headlights
front bumper has more
pronounced "snout" like a Cobra
different rear center 3000GT
reflector
as far as I'm aware, there are no substantial reliability
differences
between 5-sp and 6-sp Getrags.. They both have problems
with the synchros
wearing out too fast.. usually 2nd and sometimes
3rd.. However, it has
been suggested that the cast iron transfer case
that comes on the 93 5-sp
and 94+ 6-sp setup is more durable to high HP
applications..
2nd gen cars are rated at 320hp as opposed to 300
for the 1st gen.. this
is ONLY due to a difference in factory limited
boost pressure.. you can
get the same effect with a bleeder valve for
less than $5.
turbos are the same on all years except European versions.
(?)
sidenote on wheels: regardless of year, there aren't a lot of
choices for
aftermarket.. the 2nd gen has even fewer than the
1st..
also see: http://www.team3s.com/FAQwheels.htm
I'm
sure I missed some features, but I hope I got all the important ones..
aside
from external cosmetic differences, and a few questionably
necessary
features, the 1st gens are a better buy if you can find a good one
that's
been well maintained.. I have a 95, but would probably get
a 94 if I
had it to do over.. I personally like the 2nd gen VR4
cosmetics better..
conversely, I actually like the 1st gen Stealth cosmetics
over the 2nd..
I swear I remember seeing this info somewhere before, but
couldn't find
it.. sounds like good FAQ material..
you might
also want to check out the following for general specification
differences:
http://www.team3s.com/FAQ.htm
and http://www.team3s.com/FAQ-Specs1.htm
hope
that helps..
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
= There is no spoon..
=
=======================
*** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#398
*********************