team3s            Monday, February 5 2001            Volume 01 : Number 397




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:05:49 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Recommended tire compounds for AutoX racing

The 255s fit on the front stock wheels.
The 275s fit on the rear stock wheels.

Anything larger front or rear requires wheel spacers or a different wheel
offset.  Kent runs 275 on his front and 315 on his rear (RWD) Twin Turbo
Supra.  He gets the fast time of the day (ftd) 85% of the time (his wife
gets the ftd 10% and someone else gets ftd 5%).

Most other AutoX racers are using the Kumhos.  Thanks for the
recommendation.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 13:06
To: Schilberg, Darren
Cc: Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Recommended tire compounds for AutoX racing


You want the kumho's.  The best tire for the $ by far..very far.

315s?  Gotta 12" wheel layin around for those..*heh*

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 23:03:14 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Recommended tire compounds for AutoX racing

I should have clarified this ... I did not mean to imply putting those tires
on our wheels (275 is over or at the limit of our recommended 8.5" wheel
width and if used for anything faster than AutoX you are asking for trouble
as the tire does not have a stiff enough sidewall at that size).

Kent's car is a Toyota Supra TT (the one with a rounded tail end)
He has different wheel widths in front and back
He has a RWD car

I use a matched set of tires all-around
My street wheels are stock and VR-4 18"x8.5" 6-spoke chrome
My street tires are Pirelli 245/40/18
My racing wheels are from Rich Merritt (1999 SL 17"x8.5" 3+3 spoke)
My racing tires are 245/45/17 or 255/45/17

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 13:17
To: Schilberg, Darren
Cc: 'Geoff Mohler'; Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Recommended tire compounds for AutoX racing


Irregardles of what -he- fits on a wheel, optimum performance demands a
tire/wheel width match.

On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Schilberg, Darren wrote:

> The 255s fit on the front stock wheels.
> The 275s fit on the rear stock wheels.
>
> Anything larger front or rear requires wheel spacers or a different wheel
> offset.  Kent runs 275 on his front and 315 on his rear (RWD) Twin Turbo
> Supra.  He gets the fast time of the day (ftd) 85% of the time (his wife
> gets the ftd 10% and someone else gets ftd 5%).
>
> Most other AutoX racers are using the Kumhos.  Thanks for the
> recommendation.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 13:06
> To: Schilberg, Darren
> Cc: Team3S (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Recommended tire compounds for AutoX racing
>
>
> You want the kumho's.  The best tire for the $ by far..very far.
>
> 315s?  Gotta 12" wheel layin around for those..*heh*
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 01:02:26 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Off topic--Going to Germany

I'm off to Frankfurt, Germany for a quick visit  March 9-13.
Any list members live nearby?
How far is Frankfurt from the 'Ring?
Will the 'Ring be open for laps in early March?
Any advice on what to see/do in Frankfurt?  (I'll have my wife along, so
keep it clean.)
Please reply off list to:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net

Rich
94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD TT
92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:35:06 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

After taking the day off Wednesday to work on my '94 VR4, spending Friday at
the Lone Star PCA Instructor's Clinic and Saturday and Sunday instrucitng
(and being instructed by an Advanced instructor), I came back to over a
hundred unread emails, many about this oversteer topic.

1.  Oversteer is cause by losing grip on the rear tires while turning.

2.  There are several ways to generate oversteer, one is by braking while
turning.  Braking transfers weight to the front wheels making the rear
wheels lighter so they have less grip.

3.  Another way to create oversteer is by LIFTING THE THROTTLE in a tight
turn.  Lifting the throttle is equivalent to braking:  it transfers weight
to the front wheels making the rear wheels lighter so they have less grip.

4.  If you find that the turn you are trying to take is too sharp for the
speed you are going, the natural tendency is to let up on the throttle, or
even to hit the brakes.  This is guaranteed to create oversteer, less
politely called a "spin".

5.  Physics will only let you carry the car through a turn at a minumum
radius at a maximum speed given the amount of grip your tires provide.  The
simplest way to correct oversteer is to LET UP ON THE STEERING INPUT
(unwind) and take a larger radius through the turn.

6.  The sequence for going thorugh a turn is a) position the car for entry,
b) brake (and downshift if necessary), c) turn in,  d) gradually accellerate
through the apex, e) slightly unwind the steering to track out.  You
generally try to be at full throttle at track out.

7.  The sequence implies that most of us are trying to ACCELLERATE through
turns.  So another way to correct oversteer is to MODULATE THE THROTTLE, or
just don't jam it so fast to the floor.  The gas pedal isn't a binary
device, there are many positions for the throttle beside full on and full
off, unless you are a DRAG RACER.

8.  Take the example of the "poorly designed decreasing radius turn" (I
guess that means there was no banking or it had negative camber for drainage
or something).  If you enter the turn at a speed that is appropriate for the
initial radius, you are going to be too fast for the final radius.  You are
going to have to get the car to decellerate somehow in order to spiral in.
One way to do that gradually is to let the tires scrub off speed (sometimes
you can hear this).  But if instead you decide to ACCELLERATE through this
turn, you are going to either make a wider turn than desired, or oversteer.

9.  AWD is WONDERFUL because it allows you to recover from errors that are
disasterous for only rear drive cars as well as FWD cars.  If the weight is
transferred to the front wheels, like braking or lifting, you can STILL
DEVELOP TRACTION ON THE FRONT WHEELS BY JUDICIOUS USE OF THE THROTTLE.  If
weight is transfered to the rear wheels while accellerating, you still
develop traction on the rear tires (unlike FWD).  But the real value of AWD
is apparent in WET conditions, and other places during dry conditions, like
off camber and DOWN HILL, where the weight is shifted to front wheels but we
can still accellerate.

10.  My first thought on the tire versus oversteer is 1) better get a four
wheel alignment and 2) you're looking at really different grip.  Harder
tires usually have less grip and oversteer at lower speeds.  The rapid
wearout problem is probably related to the alignment problem, that you were
trying to fix with the harder tires.

Chuck

P.S.  Another good book on high performance driving is "Going Faster".

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:02:18 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

Bravo and when can you visit all corners of the U.S. to instruct each and
every one of us?  I'm jealous.

The book "Going Faster" is the one I am reading about the Skip Barber series
(http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gdba
<http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gdba> ) and is very good
on the basics of performance driving.  I highly recommend it to every owner
on this list.  The one book I was trying to find is no longer in print (All
Wheel Drive High Performance Handbook, ISBN 0-87938-419-0).

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

PCA driving school at Mid-Ohio in April
PCA driving school at Watkins Glen in May

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 09:35
To: 'Schilberg, Darren'; 'Merritt'; Jeff Lucius;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

P.S.  Another good book on high performance driving is "Going Faster".


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:18:48 -0500
From: "Judson Smith" <jsmith@fmbs.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: ABS

Dear Team...
I bought my 1995 3000GT base a few weeks ago, and brought it to the dealer
recently for a checkup. I've got to get timing belt, etc changed, but my
question is in regards to the Anti Lock Brakes. I live in Maine, and have
experienced ice and snow in the past two weeks, and when I push the pedal
down, I don't get the "pulsing" sensation through the brakes that I have
with other ABS on other cars I have owned. When at the dealership, no ABS
codes came up on the diagnosis. The wheels seem to lock up, not pulse, on
snow and ice, and there is no ABS light on the dashboard..Any thoughts?

Thanks, Jud
>
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:08:02 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

>9.  AWD is WONDERFUL because it allows you to recover from errors that are
>disasterous for only rear drive cars as well as FWD cars.  If the weight is
>transferred to the front wheels, like braking or lifting, you can STILL
>DEVELOP TRACTION ON THE FRONT WHEELS BY JUDICIOUS USE OF THE THROTTLE.  If
>weight is transfered to the rear wheels while accellerating, you still
>develop traction on the rear tires (unlike FWD).  But the real value of AWD
>is apparent in WET conditions, and other places during dry conditions, like
>off camber and DOWN HILL, where the weight is shifted to front wheels but we
>can still accellerate.

I knew AWD was wonderful, and have been saying so for quite some time, but
I never really understood the phenomena that was at work. I just knew that
I could get away with lifting and braking in turns, and I was whuppin' ass
in the wet. Thanks for explaining it, Chuck.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:13:09 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

At 10:02 AM 2/5/01 -0500, Schilberg, Darren wrote:
>Bravo and when can you visit all corners of the U.S. to instruct each and
>every one of us?  I'm jealous.

I almost got to meet Chuck at Heartland Park in Topeka  last year, where he
was scheduled to run and teach, but he got sick the day before.

Maybe we could get up a group of Midwestern folk to attend a school at
Heartland Park when Chuck is teaching. He could handle a novice,
intermediate and advanced (me, I hope) at one school, right Chuck?

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:16:20 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS

Sometimes I pounded the brakes in the snow for some four-wheel slide and
could hear the ABS making a horrendous grinding sound.  THIS is ABS.  On dry
pavement a hard-braking application will get the pulsing sensation (or some
gravel) but that is when not all four wheels lock up.

When all four wheels lock then it is very loud and you can feel the pedal
pulsate and hear the system working.  Try it on different texture roads
(dirt, gravel/pavement, snow/pavement, etc.).  Hopefully it is not messed up
as they are expensive to fix.

- --Flash!

dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Judson Smith [mailto:jsmith@fmbs.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:19
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Re: ABS

Dear Team...
I bought my 1995 3000GT base a few weeks ago, and brought it to the dealer
recently for a checkup. I've got to get timing belt, etc changed, but my
question is in regards to the Anti Lock Brakes. I live in Maine, and have
experienced ice and snow in the past two weeks, and when I push the pedal
down, I don't get the "pulsing" sensation through the brakes that I have
with other ABS on other cars I have owned. When at the dealership, no ABS
codes came up on the diagnosis. The wheels seem to lock up, not pulse, on
snow and ice, and there is no ABS light on the dashboard..Any thoughts?

Thanks, Jud
>
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:56:12 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

Remember, those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach!

The instructing stuff is pretty challenging - you have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL
over the car - only your ability to conjure up some sort of image in the
driver's mind keeps you on the track.  When I started instructing last year,
my driving went into a slump (really just hit a plateau).  Saturday, I had
an advanced instructor assigned to me, like a free private driving school.
Along with instructing two students and being instructed and driving in my
sessions, alone or instructed, I was on the track damn near all day.  My car
did 300 track miles this weekend, instead of the usual 200. My butt did
about 700 track miles, plus what we did during the instructors' clinic
Friday.  My timekeeper (wife) wasn't there, but my Blue Student clocked me
at 2:14 in traffic.  I can keep up quite well in the Red run group, even
with some of the race prepped vehicles.  The fundamental problem was that
since starting to instruct, I had become fixated on the turn-in point,
because you are describing this to the student and then verifying where the
car goes relative to it, instead of looking at the track out while the car
is turning in.  I was still doing this while driving myself, which made me
late on turnin (safe, but slow) on several key corners.  I spent all weekend
turning my head early to force my eyes down track through the turns.  To do
this you really have to develop confidence of where your car is relative to
the turnin and edge of track.  It worked.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schilberg, Darren [SMTP:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:02 AM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.'; Schilberg, Darren; 'Merritt'; Jeff Lucius;
> team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)
>
> Bravo and when can you visit all corners of the U.S. to instruct each and
> every one of us?  I'm jealous.
>
> The book "Going Faster" is the one I am reading about the Skip Barber
> series
> (http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gdba
> <http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gdba> ) and is very
> good
> on the basics of performance driving.  I highly recommend it to every
> owner
> on this list.  The one book I was trying to find is no longer in print
> (All
> Wheel Drive High Performance Handbook, ISBN 0-87938-419-0).
>
> --Flash!
> dschilberg@freemarkets.com
>
> PCA driving school at Mid-Ohio in April
> PCA driving school at Watkins Glen in May
>
> 3Si #577
> 1995 Black VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 09:35
> To: 'Schilberg, Darren'; 'Merritt'; Jeff Lucius;
> team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)
>
> P.S.  Another good book on high performance driving is "Going Faster".
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:11:57 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

A  My timekeeper (wife) wasn't there, but my Blue Student clocked me
>at 2:14 in traffic.

Was that at Heartland Park last weekend? You guys ran in the snow???
Boy, I'll bet your race tires were COLD!! I turned a 2:12 at HP, but it was
warm out.

Rich



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:23:08 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

No it was Texas World Speedway (2.9 miles), and the weather was BEAUTIFUL!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:12 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Schilberg, Darren'; Jeff Lucius;
> team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)
>
> A  My timekeeper (wife) wasn't there, but my Blue Student clocked me
> >at 2:14 in traffic.
>
> Was that at Heartland Park last weekend? You guys ran in the snow???
> Boy, I'll bet your race tires were COLD!! I turned a 2:12 at HP, but it
> was
> warm out.
>
> Rich
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:26:42 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS

I always wondered about what ABS felt like in ice and snow.  The first time
I noticed ABS on the track, coming off the main straight braking for turn 2,
I bragged to my son about feeling the ABS come on.  He said, "Yup, that's
all the brakes you've got".  Sortof changes your perspective, don't it?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schilberg, Darren [SMTP:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:16 AM
> To: 'Judson Smith'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS
>
> Sometimes I pounded the brakes in the snow for some four-wheel slide and
> could hear the ABS making a horrendous grinding sound.  THIS is ABS.  On
> dry
> pavement a hard-braking application will get the pulsing sensation (or
> some
> gravel) but that is when not all four wheels lock up.
>
> When all four wheels lock then it is very loud and you can feel the pedal
> pulsate and hear the system working.  Try it on different texture roads
> (dirt, gravel/pavement, snow/pavement, etc.).  Hopefully it is not messed
> up
> as they are expensive to fix.
>
> --Flash!
>
> dschilberg@freemarkets.com
>
> 3Si #577
> 1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
> plate
> http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judson Smith [mailto:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:19
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Re: ABS
>
> Dear Team...
> I bought my 1995 3000GT base a few weeks ago, and brought it to the dealer
> recently for a checkup. I've got to get timing belt, etc changed, but my
> question is in regards to the Anti Lock Brakes. I live in Maine, and have
> experienced ice and snow in the past two weeks, and when I push the pedal
> down, I don't get the "pulsing" sensation through the brakes that I have
> with other ABS on other cars I have owned. When at the dealership, no ABS
> codes came up on the diagnosis. The wheels seem to lock up, not pulse, on
> snow and ice, and there is no ABS light on the dashboard..Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks, Jud
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:26:50 -0600
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: ABS

> The wheels seem to lock up, not pulse, on snow and ice, and there is
> no ABS light on the dashboard..Any thoughts?

I don't believe your '95 base model is equipped with ABS.


Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:28:28 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS

Especially when in my mind it is starting to calculate something like this
...

"4,000 pounds at 20 mph where 60 mph is 88 feet per second so a third of
that is 30 feet per second.  Now all four wheels are locked up and I am
sliding and 4,000 pounds going 30 feet per second.  That intersection is now
30 feet away and I'm going to do a good bit of damage to that Geo Metro in
the way or the guardrail behind him."

Makes you really appreciate the mass of these cars and the momentum they
carry when not under control.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:27
To: 'Schilberg, Darren'; 'Judson Smith'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS

I always wondered about what ABS felt like in ice and snow.  The first time
I noticed ABS on the track, coming off the main straight braking for turn 2,
I bragged to my son about feeling the ABS come on.  He said, "Yup, that's
all the brakes you've got".  Sortof changes your perspective, don't it?


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:34:28 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)

You guys are way too generous.  I think I do a decent job with Green and
Blue students.  Beyond chaufeuring you around the track a couple of laps,
probably the best thing I can do is point you in the direction of some of
these guys who've been driving competitively for 15-20 years.

I'm really frustrated that the Quattro club is scheduled at Heartland Park
for the same weekend as the October Lone Star Region event at TWS.  Looks
like I've got to make come choices.  LSR only selects a limited number of
instructors each event. If you're not instructing, you still have to pay
discounted registration.  Maybe I can get LSR to tell me if I'm going to
make the list for October in advance.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:13 AM
> To: Schilberg, Darren; 'Willis, Charles E.'; Schilberg, Darren; Jeff
> Lucius; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Oversteer (Was Tires)
>
> At 10:02 AM 2/5/01 -0500, Schilberg, Darren wrote:
> >Bravo and when can you visit all corners of the U.S. to instruct each and
> >every one of us?  I'm jealous.
>
> I almost got to meet Chuck at Heartland Park in Topeka  last year, where
> he
> was scheduled to run and teach, but he got sick the day before.
>
> Maybe we could get up a group of Midwestern folk to attend a school at
> Heartland Park when Chuck is teaching. He could handle a novice,
> intermediate and advanced (me, I hope) at one school, right Chuck?
>
> Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:43:32 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS

I always advertise the weight of my car at the track - it makes the other
cars avoid me like the plague!  Only car at the track last weekend that was
heavier was a huge Mercedes (4700 lbs).  The guy does autocross with that
thing!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schilberg, Darren [SMTP:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:28 AM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.'; Schilberg, Darren; 'Judson Smith';
> Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS
>
> Especially when in my mind it is starting to calculate something like this
> ...
>
> "4,000 pounds at 20 mph where 60 mph is 88 feet per second so a third of
> that is 30 feet per second.  Now all four wheels are locked up and I am
> sliding and 4,000 pounds going 30 feet per second.  That intersection is
> now
> 30 feet away and I'm going to do a good bit of damage to that Geo Metro in
> the way or the guardrail behind him."
>
> Makes you really appreciate the mass of these cars and the momentum they
> carry when not under control.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:27
> To: 'Schilberg, Darren'; 'Judson Smith'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: ABS
>
> I always wondered about what ABS felt like in ice and snow.  The first
> time
> I noticed ABS on the track, coming off the main straight braking for turn
> 2,
> I bragged to my son about feeling the ABS come on.  He said, "Yup, that's
> all the brakes you've got".  Sortof changes your perspective, don't it?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:25:13 -0800
From: "Maupin, Justin" <Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info

So what is the consensus... Nitto tires to buy or not to buy... I am in the
market for some new tires... but don't want to get some that are going to
lead me into the wild blue guardrail...

Justin
92 TT

- -----Original Message-----
From: Schilberg, Darren [mailto:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:09 AM
To: 'Paul T. Golley'; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info


I have Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico with about a 140 treadwear (A and A on the
ratings on the sidewall).  What ratings are yours for temperature and such.
I drive hard and aggressive sometimes but only when the turns prove fun.
They are about half dead at 10k miles so I plan to have them for a while
longer.  They were $265 from Tirerack and well worth the money (even worked
good for road racing tires at a local track).

Tirerack has some good pages with testimonials from people but it really
depends on the weather in your area (hot sun, rain, etc.) and the way you
drive (spinning tire off launches, digging into turns on country roads,
etc.) that will best determine what you should use.  Jeff Lucius has a great
page of links for wheels and tires too.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico street tires, Yokohama
Advan-032 road racing tires, and Kumho Victoracer-700 AutoX tires.
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg


- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul T. Golley [mailto:ptgolley@hiwaay.net]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:50
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info


H'lo Team 3s-
My OEM YOKO 245-40-18 tires wore out before 30K miles.  I then bought
four NITTO 555s. They weren't very expensive and have a wear rating of
300 (Wow!).  Therefore I figured they'd eventually get less sticky with
time,
or wear out before the equivalent of the 300 rating.  11K miles later the
front
tires had the cords showing at the inside edges. (Horrible alignment - front
wheels were towed out 1.0 inch!  A whole separate story.)  So I put new
NITTO 555s on front, and corrected the alignment.  Now, with 8K  miles
on front and circa 18k miles on the the rear, in hard turns at 55 - 65 mph
I get OVERSTEER!  A phenomenon new to me with this car ('95 VR-4).
The oversteer occurs quickly, but it is easily corrected if you're on your
toes.  I hope this proves useful to someone.
Regards,
ptg


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:37:04 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info

At 09:25 AM 2/5/01 -0800, Maupin, Justin wrote:
>So what is the consensus... Nitto tires to buy or not to buy... I am in the
>market for some new tires... but don't want to get some that are going to
>lead me into the wild blue guardrail...

Michelin Pilots for the street. Great tire.
Yoko 032R for the track. Great school tire.

Rich

>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:39 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info

Depends on your budget and driving habits and conditions --- I used to
run the Yokohama AVS sport which I thought was a great tire for street
use as long as you don't drive in the rain a lot.

Performance tires generally have large tread blocks to avoid chunking and
soft rubber to grip ---- this results in poor rain performance and low
mileage. I think the AVS was a 180 or so now I'm running the Yoko AO32
which has larger blocks, softer rubber [ 80 ] and are noisy as hell.

If you have limited funds and want to corner 20% slower get the hard
compound [ 300 ], all weather radial from most anybody, they'll last
until you're sick of looking at them and they're safer in the rain.

I have no personal info on the Nitto other than some folk swear by them.

        Jim Berry
====================================================


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Maupin, Justin <Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
To: 'Schilberg, Darren' <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>; 'Paul T. Golley' <ptgolley@hiwaay.net>; <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info


> So what is the consensus... Nitto tires to buy or not to buy... I am in the
> market for some new tires... but don't want to get some that are going to
> lead me into the wild blue guardrail...
>
> Justin
> 92 TT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schilberg, Darren [mailto:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:09 AM
> To: 'Paul T. Golley'; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info
>
>
> I have Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico with about a 140 treadwear (A and A on the
> ratings on the sidewall).  What ratings are yours for temperature and such.
> I drive hard and aggressive sometimes but only when the turns prove fun.
> They are about half dead at 10k miles so I plan to have them for a while
> longer.  They were $265 from Tirerack and well worth the money (even worked
> good for road racing tires at a local track).
>
> Tirerack has some good pages with testimonials from people but it really
> depends on the weather in your area (hot sun, rain, etc.) and the way you
> drive (spinning tire off launches, digging into turns on country roads,
> etc.) that will best determine what you should use.  Jeff Lucius has a great
> page of links for wheels and tires too.
>
> --Flash!
> dschilberg@freemarkets.com
>
> 3Si #577
> 1995 Black VR-4 w/Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico street tires, Yokohama
> Advan-032 road racing tires, and Kumho Victoracer-700 AutoX tires.
> http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul T. Golley [mailto:ptgolley@hiwaay.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:50
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info
>
>
> H'lo Team 3s-
> My OEM YOKO 245-40-18 tires wore out before 30K miles.  I then bought
> four NITTO 555s. They weren't very expensive and have a wear rating of
> 300 (Wow!).  Therefore I figured they'd eventually get less sticky with
> time,
> or wear out before the equivalent of the 300 rating.  11K miles later the
> front
> tires had the cords showing at the inside edges. (Horrible alignment - front
> wheels were towed out 1.0 inch!  A whole separate story.)  So I put new
> NITTO 555s on front, and corrected the alignment.  Now, with 8K  miles
> on front and circa 18k miles on the the rear, in hard turns at 55 - 65 mph
> I get OVERSTEER!  A phenomenon new to me with this car ('95 VR-4).
> The oversteer occurs quickly, but it is easily corrected if you're on your
> toes.  I hope this proves useful to someone.
> Regards,
> ptg
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:06:18 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info

I concur with Rich, although my Firehawks have done well also on the street
as did my son's Goodyear R1's (?).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:37 AM
> To: Maupin, Justin; 'Schilberg, Darren'; 'Paul T. Golley';
> team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info
>
> At 09:25 AM 2/5/01 -0800, Maupin, Justin wrote:
> >So what is the consensus... Nitto tires to buy or not to buy... I am in
> the
> >market for some new tires... but don't want to get some that are going to
> >lead me into the wild blue guardrail...
>
> Michelin Pilots for the street. Great tire.
> Yoko 032R for the track. Great school tire.
>
> Rich
>
> >
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:15:08 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info

The tires will not save you from going into the guardrail.  That is up to
the driver to maintain control of the car.  Once you hear the tires
squealing then they are almost ready to let go of their traction.  Non-High
Performance tires do this quite well (harder tread, skinnier, etc.).
Tirerack.com has some good details about the tires.

I have always used Pirelli tires so I have never used Nitto or Yoko for the
street.  Just be sure that the ratings from Tirerack for rain, dry,
cornering, sound, etc. are what you want and that will dictate what tire you
end up buying.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

1995 Black VR-4 and Pirelli P-Zero tires all around

- -----Original Message-----
From: Maupin, Justin [mailto:Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:25
To: 'Schilberg, Darren'; 'Paul T. Golley'; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: YOKO and NITTO Tire Info

So what is the consensus... Nitto tires to buy or not to buy... I am in the
market for some new tires... but don't want to get some that are going to
lead me into the wild blue guardrail...

Justin
92 TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #397
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