team3s           Saturday, January 27 2001           Volume 01 : Number 389




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:41:46 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT

What the local dealer will tell you form the VIN is if the recall for brake
lines was performed.  You can use an online service to check the title
history for the car for maybe $20, which records transfers and sometimes
accidents for the car.  It includes mileage for the title trandfers and
dates.  From this, you can get an idea of where the car was around 60K miles
and even who owned it prior to the auction.  You can contact either the
local dealers there or try to contact the owner directly.  Good luck!

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judson Smith [SMTP:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:13 AM
> To: echeek@cox-internet.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT
>
> Eric- thanks for the reply...unfortuneatley I bought it from a dealer who
> bought it at auction. It has a clean title, etc. Question, if I bring it
> to
> a Mitsu dealer, if the 60K was done in say FL or CA, do you think they
> would
> have it in their local system here in Maine? Just curious...thanks.
>
> Jud
>
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:19:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: egt

Greg,

There is no possible way you are really running 850ºC or more at idle
if the pyrometers are mounted near the "end" of the manifold. There
is something wrong somewhere. Are the pyrometers and gauges matched?

Real idle EGT temps (not just stopping the car after driving for a
while) for my "race-built" engine (4K miles) are always below 400ºC.
Look at the lower picture on my web page below.

http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-apillar.htm

My car had been idling for an extended time for this photo shoot. The
bottom gauge is the front EGT and is near 300º. The middle gauge is
for the rear EGT but is disconnected (I think there is a pyrometer
problem). The upper gauge is fuel pressure and is showing about 36
psi. Idle speed is between 700 and 800 RPM and the boost gauge shows
idle vac at about 385 mm Hg (6000 ft ASL).

FWIW, turbocharger turbine wheels, bearings, and housings (at least
those used on our cars) are designed to handle operating temperatures
in the 950º range.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "GREG RUSH" <rush@siscom.net>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 7:58 PM
Subject: Team3S: egt

I am running 850-900 deg egt @ idle and 1400-1500 @ 0 boost in 4th
gear cruising at 70 mph this seems high. At boost it pegs the gauge.
I have an egt for both banks the back bank runs hotter. Should I
check the timming? This is a brand new motor with JE pistons that
were coated by HPC. I have 15h turbos gutted pre cat ATR down pipe no
main cat and a Borla exhaust.
 rushvr4


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:23:48 -0500
From: "Dan Mecier" <dmecier@ka.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: egt

Jeff,

I believe he is reading in Fahrenheit not Celsius.

>>There is no possible way you are really running 850:C or more at idle


Dan Mecier
 


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:10:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: egt

Duh!!!!!!!! Sorry, one track mind; all my gauges are in SI units.
Next time I'll wait till I finish my cup of coffee. Thanks Dan.

 850ºF = 454ºC
1400ºF = 760ºC

Yes these are acceptable, maybe a little cool (rich) for full boost
depending on pyrometer location.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Mecier" <dmecier@ka.net>
To: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 8:23 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: egt

Jeff,

I believe he is reading in Fahrenheit not Celsius.

>>There is no possible way you are really running 850:C or more at
idle

Dan Mecier


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:49:38 -0800
From: "Maupin, Justin" <Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT

Jud,

I have the same problem just bought a 92 RT/TT at a dealership who bought it
from a auction... It has 67k on it and I am pulling out my hair to know if
the service was done...

Justin Maupin
Green 92 RT/TT
No Mods as Yet!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Judson Smith [mailto:jsmith@fmbs.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:13 AM
To: echeek@cox-internet.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT


Eric- thanks for the reply...unfortuneatley I bought it from a dealer who
bought it at auction. It has a clean title, etc. Question, if I bring it to
a Mitsu dealer, if the 60K was done in say FL or CA, do you think they would
have it in their local system here in Maine? Just curious...thanks.

Jud
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Cheek <echeek@cox-internet.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT


> OK 60K dealership costs: (Since I just went to the dealership to inquire
My
> VR4 is about to hit 120K miles)
>
> 24.95 Oil Change
> 39.95 Rotate and Balance tires
> 67.95 Replace fuel filter
> 18.25 Replace air filter and Clean Throttle Body
> 474-495 Replace timing belts
> 33.95 Cooling System service
> 64.95 Transmission service and Inspection (Most models) --not sure if this
> is just for auto T's
> 159.95+ ~10.00 Engine Perf service and Spark Plug replacement (Platinum
> Plugs)
> 61.95 Clean fuel injectors
> 15.83 Replace PCV Valve
> ?? You should have them replace the water pump while they are replacing
the
> timing belts, since the same parts have to be removed to get to both.
> ~992.67 Grand Total
>
> I just went to the local dealer and asked for a price sheet for the 60K
> scheduled maintenance service. The have a pre-printed form with all the
> recommended services and related costs.
>
> Eric C. 92 VR4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> [mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Greg S.
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 7:45 PM
> To: Judson Smith; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT
>
>
> Judson,
>
> Congrats on the new purchase .... I hope you enjoy the style of a unique
> almost
> one of a kind vehicle (not many of these 3S cars around anymore).  I don't
> have
> the answers to all your questions, but I'll answer a few for ya ....
>
> 1.  Service records ... unless all service was done at a dealer or perhaps
1
> specific garage or shop, you're going to have a very hard time getting
> copies of
> the service records.  I'd ask the previous owner where he took the car for
> service and then contact that shop and ask if they have a copy of the
> service
> records for your car (by VIN).   It's worth a shot anyway.
>
> 2.  The Owners manual ... you should be able to get a copy of this from
any
> Mitsu dealer for 15 bucks or so.  Or you could always try E-bay as well.
>
> 3.  On the 60K service ... again if it was taken to a dealership they'll
> have a
> record of it on their computer ... you probably just want to have them run
> your
> VIN and that way you can check if there are any recalls that need to be
done
> and
> any repair or service work that a Mitsu dealer did on the car.  Otherwise
> ...
> you'll have to contact the previous owner to find out where he took the
car.
>
> I'll leave the other questions to someone that owns a 3KGT Base.
>
> Best,
>
> Greg
>
> Judson Smith wrote:
>
> > Dear Members,
> >
> > I am a new member to this mailing list, and just purchased a 1995 Red
> 3000GT
> > BASE. It is a beautiful car, with 96K on it. My question is this...there
> is
> > no service records, or owners manual in the car, so I'm not sure if it
had
> > it's 60K overhaul. What would be the easiest way for me to find this
out?
>
> > Also, what would be a total cost estimate to bring this to my local
> > Mitsubishi dealer to have them do this overhaul (tune up) including
timing
> > belt, and tensioner? Also, weird question....when playing the radio, the
> > bass will sometimes cut out. I can change to the CD player, and plenty
of
> > base. While the radio was playing last night, after the bass cut out, I
> put
> > my blinker on, and the bass started!! It's a stock Infinity system.
> >
> > Thanks, Judson Smith
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael D. Crose <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
> > To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:47 PM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Need advise on helmets
> >
> > > Thanks everyone for advice on the helmets.  I am going to get the Bell
> > Sport
> > > II.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Michael
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> > >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:50:21 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Judson Smith <jsmith@fmbs.com>
To: <echeek@cox-internet.com>; <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>

> Eric- thanks for the reply...unfortuneatley I bought it from a dealer who
> bought it at auction. It has a clean title, etc. Question, if I bring it to
> a Mitsu dealer, if the 60K was done in say FL or CA, do you think they would
> have it in their local system here in Maine? Just curious...thanks.

'when I got my 93 TT I went to the dealer and they had a record of all of the
maintenance done by all dealers --- that also allowed me to see if the mileage
was accurate as they record the service, the date, and the mileage.
I live in California and they had info from Florida  dealers.

        Jim Berry


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:57:14 -0500
From: "Judson Smith" <jsmith@fmbs.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT

I pulled the Carfax report, but unfortuneatley it doesn't list how many
owners, or even who they were....any ideas on how to find out by VIN# who
the previous owner(s) were?   Jud
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Maupin, Justin <Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT


> Jud,
>
> I have the same problem just bought a 92 RT/TT at a dealership who bought
it
> from a auction... It has 67k on it and I am pulling out my hair to know if
> the service was done...
>
> Justin Maupin
> Green 92 RT/TT
> No Mods as Yet!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judson Smith [mailto:jsmith@fmbs.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:13 AM
> To: echeek@cox-internet.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT
>
>
> Eric- thanks for the reply...unfortuneatley I bought it from a dealer who
> bought it at auction. It has a clean title, etc. Question, if I bring it
to
> a Mitsu dealer, if the 60K was done in say FL or CA, do you think they
would
> have it in their local system here in Maine? Just curious...thanks.
>
> Jud
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Cheek <echeek@cox-internet.com>
> To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:20 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT
>
>
> > OK 60K dealership costs: (Since I just went to the dealership to inquire
> My
> > VR4 is about to hit 120K miles)
> >
> > 24.95 Oil Change
> > 39.95 Rotate and Balance tires
> > 67.95 Replace fuel filter
> > 18.25 Replace air filter and Clean Throttle Body
> > 474-495 Replace timing belts
> > 33.95 Cooling System service
> > 64.95 Transmission service and Inspection (Most models) --not sure if
this
> > is just for auto T's
> > 159.95+ ~10.00 Engine Perf service and Spark Plug replacement (Platinum
> > Plugs)
> > 61.95 Clean fuel injectors
> > 15.83 Replace PCV Valve
> > ?? You should have them replace the water pump while they are replacing
> the
> > timing belts, since the same parts have to be removed to get to both.
> > ~992.67 Grand Total
> >
> > I just went to the local dealer and asked for a price sheet for the 60K
> > scheduled maintenance service. The have a pre-printed form with all the
> > recommended services and related costs.
> >
> > Eric C. 92 VR4
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> > [mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Greg S.
> > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 7:45 PM
> > To: Judson Smith; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT
> >
> >
> > Judson,
> >
> > Congrats on the new purchase .... I hope you enjoy the style of a unique
> > almost
> > one of a kind vehicle (not many of these 3S cars around anymore).  I
don't
> > have
> > the answers to all your questions, but I'll answer a few for ya ....
> >
> > 1.  Service records ... unless all service was done at a dealer or
perhaps
> 1
> > specific garage or shop, you're going to have a very hard time getting
> > copies of
> > the service records.  I'd ask the previous owner where he took the car
for
> > service and then contact that shop and ask if they have a copy of the
> > service
> > records for your car (by VIN).   It's worth a shot anyway.
> >
> > 2.  The Owners manual ... you should be able to get a copy of this from
> any
> > Mitsu dealer for 15 bucks or so.  Or you could always try E-bay as well.
> >
> > 3.  On the 60K service ... again if it was taken to a dealership they'll
> > have a
> > record of it on their computer ... you probably just want to have them
run
> > your
> > VIN and that way you can check if there are any recalls that need to be
> done
> > and
> > any repair or service work that a Mitsu dealer did on the car.
Otherwise
> > ...
> > you'll have to contact the previous owner to find out where he took the
> car.
> >
> > I'll leave the other questions to someone that owns a 3KGT Base.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > Judson Smith wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Members,
> > >
> > > I am a new member to this mailing list, and just purchased a 1995 Red
> > 3000GT
> > > BASE. It is a beautiful car, with 96K on it. My question is
this...there
> > is
> > > no service records, or owners manual in the car, so I'm not sure if it
> had
> > > it's 60K overhaul. What would be the easiest way for me to find this
> out?
> >
> > > Also, what would be a total cost estimate to bring this to my local
> > > Mitsubishi dealer to have them do this overhaul (tune up) including
> timing
> > > belt, and tensioner? Also, weird question....when playing the radio,
the
> > > bass will sometimes cut out. I can change to the CD player, and plenty
> of
> > > base. While the radio was playing last night, after the bass cut out,
I
> > put
> > > my blinker on, and the bass started!! It's a stock Infinity system.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Judson Smith
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Michael D. Crose <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
> > > To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:47 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Team3S: Need advise on helmets
> > >
> > > > Thanks everyone for advice on the helmets.  I am going to get the
Bell
> > > Sport
> > > > II.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > > Michael
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> > > >
> > >
> > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:55:15 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT

> I have the same problem just bought a 92 RT/TT at a
> dealership who bought it from a auction... It has
> 67k on it and I am pulling out my hair to know if
> the service was done...

That's the problem with buying something from an auction.  On cars like
these you really need to know the service history to know if the car is
worth what you paid.

Remove one of the upper timing belt covers and take a look at the belt.  If
it has any cracks in it, it didn't get the 60,000 mile service.  If there is
any doubt, get the 60,000 mile service done regardless.

I've noticed that when these cars hit around 60,000 miles or so a LOT of
people sell them instead of doing the service work.  ASSUME that it hasn't
been done unless proven otherwise.

Oh, and please don't include the previous 6 messages in your replies to the
list.  It makes the Digest and Archive versions look like hell and uses
unnecessary space.  Quote the relevent parts and delete the rest.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:07:55 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT (ADMIN MESSAGE)

Guys,

Please always Snip out the unneeded part of the last message as we all
received them already ! It is not necessary to include the full thread.
Even more, do not reply with the whole content of a digest !!!!

Thanks for your help in keeping the list in a good shape :)

Roger
for the admins

At 10:57 26.01.2001 -0500, Judson Smith wrote:
>I pulled the Carfax report, but unfortuneatley it doesn't list how many
>owners, or even who they were....any ideas on how to find out by VIN# who
>the previous owner(s) were?   Jud


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:18:37 -0500
From: "Judson Smith" <jsmith@fmbs.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1995 Base 3000 GT (ADMIN MESSAGE)

sorry everyone, my fault....I"m new to the list.  Jud

> Guys,
>
> Please always Snip out the unneeded part of the last message as we all
> received them already ! It is not necessary to include the full thread.
> Even more, do not reply with the whole content of a digest !!!!
>
> Thanks for your help in keeping the list in a good shape :)
>
> Roger
> for the admins
>
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:41:57 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Thanks for PRO Rally stuff - end thread, please

A Canadian PRO Rally navigator was kind enough to explain all the gory
details about entry-level PRO rallying, so I have what I need. Thanks to
everyone who responded.

On the off chance that you are thinking about it yourself, here's a quick
synopsis of the biggies:

Driver:
Must have Pro license.
Classroom required for license: occurs before each event.
Must have drivers suit and Snell 95 helmet

Car (Production class):
Requires full cage
No engine mods
Lots of trivial details, such as mud flaps, reflectors, blah, blah.
After making required rally mods, it will never be a street car again.

I dunno about this any more. I had hoped to go dabble in a PRO rallye, but
now I'm not so sure I want to dedicate an entire car to it. If I could
figure out some way to make a rally car do double duty as an open track
car, then it might be more palatable.

Good ol' SCCA. They could f&^%k up a wet dream.

No wonder PRO rallying is dying on the vine. If they want to lure people
into the sport, they gotta make it easier to dabble.

Rich
92 Eagle Talon TSi/not sure about becoming a rally car now
94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4/almost a track car


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:15:02 -0500
From: "Karl Siebert" <ksiebert@gow.org>
Subject: Team3S: Checking Manual Trani fluid

I have a 91' stealth ES.  It is a 5 speed manual and has been shifting a bit
rough, especially into 2nd gear, but sometimes rough into all of the other
gears.  I know that the 2nd gear syncro may be bad, but it may just be low
on trani fluid.  How do I check the trani fluid (where is the plug located),
and what kind of fluid do I fill it with?

Karl

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:26:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Thanks for PRO Rally stuff - end thread, please

If you want a rally car, I would consider a Celica AllTrac, and definitely
not a DSM.  The DSm was never built for that, the Toyota was..and wins.

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Merritt wrote:

> A Canadian PRO Rally navigator was kind enough to explain all the gory
> details about entry-level PRO rallying, so I have what I need. Thanks to
> everyone who responded.
>
> On the off chance that you are thinking about it yourself, here's a quick
> synopsis of the biggies:
>
> Driver:
> Must have Pro license.
> Classroom required for license: occurs before each event.
> Must have drivers suit and Snell 95 helmet
>
> Car (Production class):
> Requires full cage
> No engine mods
> Lots of trivial details, such as mud flaps, reflectors, blah, blah.
> After making required rally mods, it will never be a street car again.
>
> I dunno about this any more. I had hoped to go dabble in a PRO rallye, but
> now I'm not so sure I want to dedicate an entire car to it. If I could
> figure out some way to make a rally car do double duty as an open track
> car, then it might be more palatable.
>
> Good ol' SCCA. They could f&^%k up a wet dream.
>
> No wonder PRO rallying is dying on the vine. If they want to lure people
> into the sport, they gotta make it easier to dabble.
>
> Rich
> 92 Eagle Talon TSi/not sure about becoming a rally car now
> 94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4/almost a track car
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:10:32 -0500
From: "ukyo@speedfactory.net" <ukyo@speedfactory.net>
Subject: Team3S: Short block update

It's looking like my VR4 is in bad shape.  They are still in the
process of tearing it down so I don't know what can or can not be
reused at this point.  They quoted me ~$5,3XX for a new short block
and misc. fluids / seals with labor (25 hours @ $65 an hour).  Does
this sound fair?  I've never had an angine rebuilt or replaced so I
have no idea what the cost of this is going to be.  I'm still hoping
all it will need are main bearings, one rod, honing, and misc.
gaskets / rings / fluids.  Only time will tell. 

Heh... anyone want to take a weekend off and drop by my place?  I'll
just buy the short block straight up and we can put it in together.
:)

Oh well.  I'm open to anyone's opinion on this price.  I don't want
to over pay on this if I don't have to.  Thanks in advance.

- --Travis
'97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle / Red)

'94 3000GT VR4 (Stock with horrid rod knock / Green)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:36:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: All conn rods the same?

Travis's short block replacement caused me to look at CAPS a little
and here is what it reports. The following info comes from the CAPS
program for the DOHC turbo engine.

crankshaft: MD318150 (the latest made) will fit all years
piston and pin: MD307972 (standard size) will fit all years
conn rod assembly: MD131329 the ONLY part number listed for ALL years

What I find interesting is that CAPS does not list ANY different part
numbers for the rods for the different years, implying that there
were no changes. I have heard many times that the rods were
"improved" at least material-wise for the "4-bolt" engines. The CAPS
program indicates the rods never changed. Anybody with some *facts*
to the contrary?

Thanks,

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:07:30 -0500
From: Steve Lasher <s_lasher@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

Is there a web page that details the upgrade to 94+ brakes - front and
rear?
Do the 94+ cars use bigger rotors and calipers on the front, or just
bigger rotors with the same calipers?  I believe the pads are the same,
so I'd guess the calipers are the same??  TiA
- -Steve Lasher
92 VR-4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:03:42 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

No, Calipers must have another spindle offset. Therefore, calipers and
rotors are different. In the rear only the calipers are different. Pads on
the front are the same but not in the rear.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch



> Is there a web page that details the upgrade to 94+ brakes - front and
> rear?
> Do the 94+ cars use bigger rotors and calipers on the front, or just
> bigger rotors with the same calipers?  I believe the pads are the same,
> so I'd guess the calipers are the same??  TiA
> -Steve Lasher
> 92 VR-4



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:39:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

Steve,

My comprehensive brake upgrade page will give some info.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-brakeupgrade.htm

Other info is in the CAPS program and the service manuals.

As far as I know, the front calipers stayed the same internally but
the mounting brackets changed plus the pads changed in 1994. The part
numbers are not the same.
(eg., left caliper: 94+ = MB928036, 91-93 = MB857253;
      left pad set: 94+ = MR389516, 91-93 = MR389514).

The rear calipers and pads changed in 1994 (2-piston from 1-piston).
The front and rear rotors changed in 1994 (got bigger).
Basically, no '94+ parts (rotors, calipers, pads) will work on 91-93
cars.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lasher" <s_lasher@bellsouth.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 2:07 PM
Subject: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

Is there a web page that details the upgrade to 94+ brakes - front
and
rear? Do the 94+ cars use bigger rotors and calipers on the front, or
just bigger rotors with the same calipers?  I believe the pads are
the same, so I'd guess the calipers are the same??  TiA
- -Steve Lasher
92 VR-4


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:43:17 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

>As far as I know, the front calipers stayed the same internally but
>the mounting brackets changed plus the pads changed in 1994. The part
>numbers are not the same.

Porterfield lists the same pad numbers for the fronts for all years. It has
different pad numbers in the rear.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:04:26 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

Roger,

My service manual shows a different rotor diameter for second generation
also.  I will know for sure this weekend if my '94 rear rotors arrive today.

Summarizing what I suspect:

STOCK VR4 BRAKES
part '93 '94
front rotor smaller bigger diameter
rear rotor smaller bigger diameter
front pads same same
rear pads larger surface slighly smaller surface area
rear caliper single piston, floating dual piston, fixed
front caliper body shorter arm longer mounting arm
front caliper internals same same
rear caliper internals single piston dual piston

This means you can use '93 and 94 front pads interchangeably, and front
caliper rebuild kits interchangeably.  The upper and lower pistons form
front calipers ahould be interchangeable from '93 and '94.

The interesting question is whether I can mount my '94 front calipers and
'94 front rotors on my '93 VR4 wheel.  I think I can so long as I have 17"
wheels which I do. This should improve braking, because of the better
mechanical advantage ()longer moment arm) of the larger diameter rotor and
longer caliper mounting arm.  I'm not sure whether some of the early 1st
generation VR4's had 16" wheels (like '91).  A less interesting question
could be asked about retrofitting '94 rear rotors and calipers to my '93.
The larger diameter rotor makes up for the slight decrease in pad surface
area.  And the front brakes do most of the work anyhow.

Chuck.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Gerl (RTEC) [SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:04 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade
>
> No, Calipers must have another spindle offset. Therefore, calipers and
> rotors are different. In the rear only the calipers are different. Pads on
> the front are the same but not in the rear.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch
>
>
>
> > Is there a web page that details the upgrade to 94+ brakes - front and
> > rear?
> > Do the 94+ cars use bigger rotors and calipers on the front, or just
> > bigger rotors with the same calipers?  I believe the pads are the same,
> > so I'd guess the calipers are the same??  TiA
> > -Steve Lasher
> > 92 VR-4
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:08:19 -0800
From: "Watkins, Jim" <jim.watkins@terayon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

I have both types of cars and it's true that the front pads and calipers FIT
on both types.  The part number differences must be subtle changes like pad
materials, finishes, etc.  I never took both types of calipers apart to
compare piston diameters and seals, so they may be different.  Externally,
they are the same.

Jim
91-VR4
95-VR4 Spyder


As far as I know, the front calipers stayed the same internally but
the mounting brackets changed plus the pads changed in 1994. The part
numbers are not the same.
(eg., left caliper: 94+ = MB928036, 91-93 = MB857253;
      left pad set: 94+ = MR389516, 91-93 = MR389514).

The rear calipers and pads changed in 1994 (2-piston from 1-piston).
The front and rear rotors changed in 1994 (got bigger).
Basically, no '94+ parts (rotors, calipers, pads) will work on 91-93
cars.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:06:40 -0500
From: Lorne Silkes <vr4@cwia.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

If I remeber correctly from a test at one of the Gatherings,
The older 17" wheels do not clear the 94+ calipers.

Lorne
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'Roger Gerl (RTEC)'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>;
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade


> Roger,
>
> My service manual shows a different rotor diameter for second generation
> also.  I will know for sure this weekend if my '94 rear rotors arrive
today.
>
> Summarizing what I suspect:
>
> STOCK VR4 BRAKES
> part '93 '94
> front rotor smaller bigger diameter
> rear rotor smaller bigger diameter
> front pads same same
> rear pads larger surface slighly smaller surface area
> rear caliper single piston, floating dual piston, fixed
> front caliper body shorter arm longer mounting arm
> front caliper internals same same
> rear caliper internals single piston dual piston
>
> This means you can use '93 and 94 front pads interchangeably, and front
> caliper rebuild kits interchangeably.  The upper and lower pistons form
> front calipers ahould be interchangeable from '93 and '94.
>
> The interesting question is whether I can mount my '94 front calipers and
> '94 front rotors on my '93 VR4 wheel.  I think I can so long as I have 17"
> wheels which I do. This should improve braking, because of the better
> mechanical advantage ()longer moment arm) of the larger diameter rotor and
> longer caliper mounting arm.  I'm not sure whether some of the early 1st
> generation VR4's had 16" wheels (like '91).  A less interesting question
> could be asked about retrofitting '94 rear rotors and calipers to my '93.
> The larger diameter rotor makes up for the slight decrease in pad surface
> area.  And the front brakes do most of the work anyhow.
>
> Chuck.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Gerl (RTEC) [SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:04 PM
> > To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade
> >
> > No, Calipers must have another spindle offset. Therefore, calipers and
> > rotors are different. In the rear only the calipers are different. Pads
on
> > the front are the same but not in the rear.
> >
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT TT
> > www.rtec.ch
> >
> >
> >
> > > Is there a web page that details the upgrade to 94+ brakes - front and
> > > rear?
> > > Do the 94+ cars use bigger rotors and calipers on the front, or just
> > > bigger rotors with the same calipers?  I believe the pads are the
same,
> > > so I'd guess the calipers are the same??  TiA
> > > -Steve Lasher
> > > 92 VR-4
> >
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:06:57 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

> The interesting question is whether I can mount my '94 front
> calipers and '94 front rotors on my '93 VR4 wheel.  I think
> I can so long as I have 17" wheels which I do.  This
> should improve braking, because of the better mechanical
> advantage ()longer moment arm) of the larger diameter
> rotor and longer caliper mounting arm.  I'm not sure whether
> some of the early 1st generation VR4's had 16"
> wheels (like '91).

No VR4/TT cars had 16" wheels.  They simply don't fit over the calipers.

Also, the wheels changed in 1994 to allow the more outboard-mounted calipers
to clear the wheel spokes.  Pretty sure the 1993 and earlier wheels won't
fit with '94+ caliper offsets.  The ones I tried to fit hit the wheel
spokes.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:13:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

The CAPS shows that the caliper piston assemblies are the same for
all years (for the VR4/TT).

Thanks for the comfirmation on the front pads. I will update the
section on stock components in my upgrade guide to include this
discussion. Thanks guys.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'Roger Gerl (RTEC)'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>;
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

This means you can use '93 and 94 front pads interchangeably, and
front caliper rebuild kits interchangeably.  The upper and lower
pistons form front calipers ahould be interchangeable from '93 and
'94.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Watkins, Jim" <jim.watkins@terayon.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:08 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

I have both types of cars and it's true that the front pads and
calipers FIT on both types.  The part number differences must be
subtle changes like pad materials, finishes, etc.  I never took both
types of calipers apart to compare piston diameters and seals, so
they may be different.  Externally, they are the same.


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Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:33:58 -0600
From: kalla@tripoint.org
Subject: Team3S: transaxle seal leak : gone

I put another seal and a new c-clip on the half shaft two nights
ago, and had a friend help me seat the shaft this time. There was a
satisfying pop as we pushed it in. It's in there tightly this time.

I was just under the car and inspected it, and the shaft has not
moved out, nor is there any leakage around the seal. I changed the
fluid to get rid of grit and moisture that may have gotten in there
while I've been trying to fix this. I hope all will be well.

Thanks everyone for your help ..

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:43:31 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: transaxle seal leak : gone

At 05:33 PM 1/26/01 -0600, kalla@tripoint.org wrote:
>I put another seal and a new c-clip on the half shaft two nights
>ago, and had a friend help me seat the shaft this time. There was a
>satisfying pop as we pushed it in. It's in there tightly this time.
>Thanks everyone for your help ..
>
That's what this list is all about.
I just love it when everything works out like that.
Say what you want about us being all stuckup over here and unfriendly to
the blue light people, but this list actually helps people with real
problems.
Our list admins should be proud.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:00:54 -0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

George Kuo successfully installed 94+ rear calipers on his 92 RT/TT.  There
was a discussion about it on 3si.org a couple months back.  The pictures are
missing due to recent problems with the board, but the text is still
informative.

http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=13229

Jeff V


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:33:23 -0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade

Hi All,

Chuck you are 100% correct.

I did the 93 to 94+ upgrade front and rear.  And yes
you should be able to take all rear 94 and put them on
a 93 and  take all the 93 rears and put them on a 94+.
Good observation on the 93 vs 94 rear pads.  I know
they are physically different, but never calculated
the area.


Now for the fronts...You are also correct.  The 93 and
94 pads are the same.  The change in part numbers
reflected including the shims&pads to selling the pads
separate and shims separate.  I normally reused the
old shims anyhow.

If you have the Chrome VR4 17" they should clear the
94+system.  If not wellllll $$$$$$$$.

You'll have better pad life on the track with the 94+
system, but I'd wager you'll be changing again to the
BIG REDS  in the 2003 racing season....


Be of good cheer,
John


- --- "Willis, Charles E."
<cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org> wrote:
> Roger,
>
> My service manual shows a different rotor diameter
> for second generation
> also.  I will know for sure this weekend if my '94
> rear rotors arrive today.
>
> Summarizing what I suspect:
>
> STOCK VR4 BRAKES
> part '93 '94
> front rotor smaller bigger diameter
> rear rotor smaller bigger diameter
> front pads same same
> rear pads larger surface slighly smaller surface
> area
> rear caliper single piston, floating dual piston,
> fixed
> front caliper body shorter arm longer mounting arm
> front caliper internals same same
> rear caliper internals single piston dual piston
>
> This means you can use '93 and 94 front pads
> interchangeably, and front
> caliper rebuild kits interchangeably.  The upper and
> lower pistons form
> front calipers ahould be interchangeable from '93
> and '94.
>
> The interesting question is whether I can mount my
> '94 front calipers and
> '94 front rotors on my '93 VR4 wheel.  I think I can
> so long as I have 17"
> wheels which I do. This should improve braking,
> because of the better
> mechanical advantage ()longer moment arm) of the
> larger diameter rotor and
> longer caliper mounting arm.  I'm not sure whether
> some of the early 1st
> generation VR4's had 16" wheels (like '91).  A less
> interesting question
> could be asked about retrofitting '94 rear rotors
> and calipers to my '93.
> The larger diameter rotor makes up for the slight
> decrease in pad surface
> area.  And the front brakes do most of the work
> anyhow.
>
> Chuck.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Gerl (RTEC)
> [SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:04 PM
> > To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ Brake Upgrade
> >
> > No, Calipers must have another spindle offset.
> Therefore, calipers and
> > rotors are different. In the rear only the
> calipers are different. Pads on
> > the front are the same but not in the rear.
> >
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT TT
> > www.rtec.ch
> >
> >
> >
> > > Is there a web page that details the upgrade to
> 94+ brakes - front and
> > > rear?
> > > Do the 94+ cars use bigger rotors and calipers
> on the front, or just
> > > bigger rotors with the same calipers?  I believe
> the pads are the same,
> > > so I'd guess the calipers are the same??  TiA
> > > -Steve Lasher
> > > 92 VR-4
> >
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


=====
Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

__________________________________________________
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:11:41 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: Team3S: 94+ rear brake pads

I'm confused by the part numbers listed on the Porterfield web site:

R4S  DODGE  Stealth 4wd Turbo  91-94       AP531  $89.00   AP532  69.00
R4S  DODGE  Stealth 4wd        95-96       AP531  $89.00   AP631  99.00
R4S  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  4/90-5/93   AP531  $89.00   AP532  69.00
R4S  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  6/93-98     AP531  $89.00   AP631  99.00

I have a '94 TT and bought the AP532 rear pads several months ago (haven't
installed them yet).  Did I get the wrong ones?

I can't remember how I ordered these pads, either... I need a set of R4S
pads for the front and can't find the order form on the Porterfield site!

- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPH)
Porterfield cryo-treated rotors, RS4 pads, braided lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:35:53 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94+ rear brake pads

> R4S  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  4/90-5/93   AP531  $89.00   AP532  69.00
> R4S  MITSUBISHI  3000 GT VR-4  6/93-98     AP531  $89.00   AP631  99.00
>
> I have a '94 TT and bought the AP532 rear pads several months ago (haven't
> installed them yet).  Did I get the wrong ones?

Yes, wrong ones. You have the same rear 2-piston caliper like I do,
therefore second gen.

Cheers
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:52:26 -0600
From: "Gabriel Estrada" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Alternator??

Any links up of instructions on how to replace an alternator?  Tried
swapping battery but the car won't hold a charge.  Did not make any
difference.  The car is driven short distances just too and from work(wife).
Last week the car slowly got harder and harder to start, kinda like there
just wasn't enough juice to start it up.  Thursday evening just went south.
So I put a different battery in the car, got it started and it ran for 45
min or so.  Turn car off, start up a few minutes later no problems.  Go to
bed.  Get up a few hours later and no start again.  No interior lights left
on or any other power drains that I can think of, or find.  Any input would
be appreciated!

Gabriel Estrada
Internet Sales Director
McCarthy Automotive Group
Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai
913-530-6730


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #389
*********************