team3s            Tuesday, January 16 2001            Volume 01 : Number 379




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:31:59 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control a rms?

Does shaking occur at different speeds?  When I would brake from above 60
mph I would get the steering wheel shimmy.  Below 40 mph was fine.

Mine was due to a set of warped front rotors which had enough meat left in
them to machine down.


- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark plug plate
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi


 -----Original Message-----
From: Chad Beeder [mailto:syzygy@eskimo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 00:29
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control
arms?

Over the past few months, my car has developed a steering wheel shake while
braking, which is really noticeable at highway speeds.  I took it into the
dealer to have the rotors resurfaced, thinking that it was just warped
rotors.

The dealer told me that the rotors are fine, but that both of my lower
lateral control arms need to be replaced, and quoted me $900.  Does this
sound legitimate, or am I getting ripped off?  Assuming the diagnosis is
correct, I plan to get some other estimates for the job, but I wanted to
know if this even sounds like a plausible explanation given the symptoms.
(Note that the shaking only happens when I apply the brakes.)

Appreciate anyone's advice on this.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:34:20 -0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Would you be interested in?

Hi Jim,

Yes the HOT LAP timer can be used to segment turns.  I
upgraded my original hotlap to the performance model
cause it can hold 99 laps and I can upload the data to
my computer when I get home.

The upgraded HOT LAP comes with a remote push button
switch, a magnetic pickup and something else.  I have
used the pushbutton switch for 'schools' that don't
permit students to time laps (ie won't let me setup my
hotlap sender).  I just push the buttom at the
start/finish line to record laptimes.  The only
hazzard is that I don't remember to push the button.

I've not used the wheel sensor yet, but Rich this
would record speed at a given moment ie  turn in/exit.

The HOT LAP is a great tool to determine lap
consistancy and/or verify different stategies.

The G-cube seems to be more of a ongoing data
collector and more useful as an after the session
tool.

Be of good cheer,
John


- --- Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> Merritt
>
> It would look as though Hotlap has a similar device
> [ see link ]. Their performance
> monitoring option to the Hot Lap timer seems the
> same as what you're talking
> about --- less cooling sprays etc. In addition you
> can download the lap info to
> a computer for analysis.
>
> http://www.stable-energies.com/hotlap/hotlap.html
>
>         Jim Berry
> ====================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
> To: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>;
> <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>; <
> > >
> > 1. Hook up a 1/1000th reading odometer sending
> unit to the front wheels
> > (less likely to spin). Any rally odo would work.
> > 2. Hook up a start/finish line photocell/manual
> switch.
> > 3. Hook up a START INTERVAL and a STOP INTERVAL
> pushbutton.
> > 4. Hook up green, yellow and red indicator lights
> in front of the driver.
> > 5. Connect everything to an onboard computer.
> >
> > Go out for a recce (reconnaissance run) and click
> START INTERVAL at the
> > entrance to each turn and STOP INTERVAL at the
> exit of each turn. Use
> > landmarks, such as braking zone numbers, curbs,
> etc.
> > We are essentially mapping out the course,
> measuring every interval to the
> > 1/1000th of a mile.
> >
> > Now, when we start running laps, we click the
> start/finish line button (or
> > let the photocell do it) on our first hot lap. The
> computer logs in our
> > initial lap times and interval times. Every time
> we cross the start/finish
> > line, it resets the odometer to 0.000 and logs the
> lap time.
> >
> > As we run succeeding laps, the computer checks
> each interval time, and
> > compares it to the previous times. If this time is
> slower, it flashes the
> > red light; if within a tenth of the previous time
> it flashes the yellow
> > light; if faster than before, it flashes the green
> light. If it's the
> > fastest interval of all, it flashes all three
> lights.
> >
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


=====
Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:40:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control a rms?

Darren and others..

Dont..just dont..turn rotors.

I cry when I read these things *grin*

If they warped as FULL rotors, you are just begging for more..and
worse..warping later.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Schilberg, Darren wrote:

> Does shaking occur at different speeds?  When I would brake from above 60
> mph I would get the steering wheel shimmy.  Below 40 mph was fine.
>
> Mine was due to a set of warped front rotors which had enough meat left in
> them to machine down.
>
>
> --Flash!
> dschilberg@freemarkets.com
>
> 3Si #577
> 1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark plug plate
> http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Chad Beeder [mailto:syzygy@eskimo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 00:29
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control
> arms?
>
> Over the past few months, my car has developed a steering wheel shake while
> braking, which is really noticeable at highway speeds.  I took it into the
> dealer to have the rotors resurfaced, thinking that it was just warped
> rotors.
>
> The dealer told me that the rotors are fine, but that both of my lower
> lateral control arms need to be replaced, and quoted me $900.  Does this
> sound legitimate, or am I getting ripped off?  Assuming the diagnosis is
> correct, I plan to get some other estimates for the job, but I wanted to
> know if this even sounds like a plausible explanation given the symptoms.
> (Note that the shaking only happens when I apply the brakes.)
>
> Appreciate anyone's advice on this.
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:41:51 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control a rms?

> The dealer told me that the rotors are fine, but that both of my
> lower lateral control arms need to be replaced, and quoted me
> $900.  Does this sound legitimate, or am I getting ripped off?
> Assuming the diagnosis is correct, I plan to get some other
> estimates for the job, but I wanted to know if this even sounds
> like a plausible explanation given the symptoms.  (Note that the
> shaking only happens when I apply the brakes.)

Does the car tend to "wander" in hard corners?  I'd think that you would see
some symptoms during cornering if somehow the control arms are bent/worn.
There are also a number of bushings on/in the control arms which could be
bad, and are MUCH less expensive to replace than the arms themselves.  It is
pretty unlikely that the arms themselves are bent as they are pretty darn
stiff pieces.

Could be the lower ball joints as well, which the dealer would want to
replace the whole arms.  Typically if they are going bad there's some play
in them that you can detect just by jacking up the wheel and pulling/pushing
hard on the top/bottom of the tire.

I'd go to an alignment shop and get the alignment checked.  If camber/castor
are within spec and toe isn't, then just adjusting toe should be all you
need, assuming there's no worn/bent parts somewhere.  This sort of behavior
is usually caused by an incorrect toe setting which is easily corrected.
Feel the wear on the tires with your hand to see if the tread is worn
unevenly.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:45:38 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control a rms?

> Darren and others..
> Dont..just dont..turn rotors.
> I cry when I read these things *grin*

> If they warped as FULL rotors, you are just begging for
> more..and worse..warping later.

I agree with you on that...  If they are already warped, chances are very
high that the warp is just going to get worse.  The stock rotors are pure
crap for hard braking and seem to go through phases where they are fine,
then warped, then fine, then warp again.  Mine can develop a warp with just
highway cruising on occasion.  Better off to just get "real" Porterfield
rotors and hope to not have to deal with a warped set again.

Removing rotor mass isn't the solution.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:20:35 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control a rms?

At 09:40 PM 1/15/01 -0800, Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Darren and others..
>Dont..just dont..turn rotors.
>I cry when I read these things *grin*
>If they warped as FULL rotors, you are just begging for more..and
>worse..warping later.

Nah, never had a problem. I ran a set of Porterfield cryogenically treated
rotors through 5+ sets of race pads including Pagid Blacks and Hawk Blues
(which did multiple events) before I wore them down to below factory specs
(yes, boys and girls, rotors are a wear item), and I did a cleanup turn on
them every time I put in new race pads. They never warped, not even at the
end. I still have them for spares.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:29:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower  control a rms?

YMMV, but we were talking about 1) stock rotors and 2) Rotors already
warped.

For what theyre worth..Id still get new ones every few sets of pads W/O a
cleanup turning.  Just a brush on the flywheel lathe is OK for me.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Merritt wrote:

> At 09:40 PM 1/15/01 -0800, Geoff Mohler wrote:
> >Darren and others..
> >Dont..just dont..turn rotors.
> >I cry when I read these things *grin*
> >If they warped as FULL rotors, you are just begging for more..and
> >worse..warping later.
>
> Nah, never had a problem. I ran a set of Porterfield cryogenically treated
> rotors through 5+ sets of race pads including Pagid Blacks and Hawk Blues
> (which did multiple events) before I wore them down to below factory specs
> (yes, boys and girls, rotors are a wear item), and I did a cleanup turn on
> them every time I put in new race pads. They never warped, not even at the
> end. I still have them for spares.
>
> Rich/old poop
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:02:14 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower  control a rms?

>
>For what theyre worth..Id still get new ones every few sets of pads W/O a
>cleanup turning.  Just a brush on the flywheel lathe is OK for me.
>

With the stock calipers, the pads did not cover the entire rotor, so they
would leave a sharp, outer ridge on the rotor. We always cut that off
during the cleanup turn. It was only a few thousandths of metal, but very
noticeable.

With my Big Reds, the pads overlap the rotor, so we don't have that
problem. As the pads wear down, they leave about 1/8 in. of pad hanging
over the edge of the rotor. It's a great way to see how much wear is left,
cuz you can see how far the rotor has cut into the pad.

Getting them out can be a trick, because the pads get hooked to the rotor
with the overhang. When we get the pads out, we cut off the overhang on a
grinder, and keep the pads for spares if there's any material left. The
Pagids crumbled badly at the edges even before we ground them down.

Even though I no longer need to cut metal off the rotors, I always like to
do a cleanup turn just to clean off all the pad material buildup and
ridges, and prepare the rotors for new pads. But, like you say, that could
probably be done with a handheld wheel, since they aren't warped.

Still, for $5 a rotor, I'll let a shop do it every time.  I have this GREAT
brake shop. If I carry in the rotors, they turn 'em for $5 each. Can't beat
that, and they know what they are doing. Besides, they can tell me when I
am getting down to the throwaway depth.

I know Flash is going to ask, so I'll answer: For my money, the Hawk Blues
are a great pad. Just take them out for the street, or they will wear like
crazy (they wear great when hot, but like a cheese grater when cold). If
you are getting Brad's Big Reds, buy a set of Blues and a set of stock
Porsche pads, and go back to the stocks after each event. It is SO EASY to
change pads with the Big Reds -- just POP off the big spring and out they
come.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:15:00 -0800
From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control arms?

I can't say I've noticed any wandering in hard corners.  From what I
gathered from talking to the service guy, I think you are right in that they
want to replace the lower ball joints which is why they want to replace the
whole control arm.  (No way of buying these separately, I take it?)

I just thought it was a bit weird because it only happened while braking,
which I always heard was the classic sign of a warped rotor.

I actually had the alignment checked a couple of months ago (after the
braking problem started) and they told me the alignment was fine.  They
didn't mention anything about the ball joints, but I don't know if something
like that would be obvious while checking alignment or not?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To: "'Chad Beeder'" <syzygy@eskimo.com>; "Team3S" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:41 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control
arms?


> Does the car tend to "wander" in hard corners?  I'd think that you would
see
> some symptoms during cornering if somehow the control arms are bent/worn.
> There are also a number of bushings on/in the control arms which could be
> bad, and are MUCH less expensive to replace than the arms themselves.  It
is
> pretty unlikely that the arms themselves are bent as they are pretty darn
> stiff pieces.
>
> Could be the lower ball joints as well, which the dealer would want to
> replace the whole arms.  Typically if they are going bad there's some play
> in them that you can detect just by jacking up the wheel and
pulling/pushing
> hard on the top/bottom of the tire.
>
> I'd go to an alignment shop and get the alignment checked.  If
camber/castor
> are within spec and toe isn't, then just adjusting toe should be all you
> need, assuming there's no worn/bent parts somewhere.  This sort of
behavior
> is usually caused by an incorrect toe setting which is easily corrected.
> Feel the wear on the tires with your hand to see if the tread is worn
> unevenly.



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:26:20 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control a rms?

Jeff,

   I might have mis-spoken.  There was not a warp on the entire stock rotor.
When I would go slowly and lightly push the brakes I would feel and hear
them grab at one spot and then nothing until that one spot again.  This
meant they were warped only on that one side (and not too much either).
   These were turned but I did not put them back on the car.  I bought a set
from Rick Diogo (down there in sunny FLA with a shiny new Viper on his pad)
and put those on instead.  The turned ones are SPARES ONLY (to those others
reading) and are used at track events for backups.  Thanks for catching this
though.


- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark plug plate



 -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 00:40
To: Schilberg, Darren
Cc: 'Chad Beeder'; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower
control a rms?

Darren and others..

Dont..just dont..turn rotors.

I cry when I read these things *grin*

If they warped as FULL rotors, you are just begging for more..and
worse..warping later.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:31:31 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower  control  a rms?

Unfortunately I can not give accurate data since I bought the car used at
40k miles in 06/2000.  Stock rotors might have been original with only 40k
miles on the car and not driven aggressively.  They might have been replaced
and turned and therefore warped already.  I drove the car hard for the first
few weeks.  That is why I am going to the stock cryo set from Porterfield
(www.porterfield-brakes.com) for the next set.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark plug plate


 -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 01:29
To: Merritt
Cc: Schilberg, Darren; 'Chad Beeder'; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower
control a rms?

YMMV, but we were talking about 1) stock rotors and 2) Rotors already
warped.

For what theyre worth..Id still get new ones every few sets of pads W/O a
cleanup turning.  Just a brush on the flywheel lathe is OK for me.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:41:56 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower  control  a rms?

Rich and others,

> With the stock calipers, the pads did not cover the entire rotor, so they
> would leave a sharp, outer ridge on the rotor. We always cut that off
> during the cleanup turn. It was only a few thousandths of metal, but very
> noticeable.

When my rotors were changed a few months ago the stock pads were indeed
off-center.  One set (front left) was too far toward the outside of the
rotor (hung over) and the front right was centered just fine.  I think they
might have turned down the inner portion of the rotor to catch up to where
the outer portion was worn down (on the front left rotor).  But these are
getting replaced so I didn't worry.  And the replaced ones did not shimmy
the wheel so I attributed that to the rotors since the pads did not change.


> I know Flash is going to ask, so I'll answer: For my money, the Hawk Blues
> are a great pad. Just take them out for the street, or they will wear like
> crazy (they wear great when hot, but like a cheese grater when cold). If
> you are getting Brad's Big Reds, buy a set of Blues and a set of stock
> Porsche pads, and go back to the stocks after each event. It is SO EASY to
> change pads with the Big Reds -- just POP off the big spring and out they
> come.

Man can Rich read me like a book now - like we've been married for a spell
or something.  I've set my eyes on the Hawk Blue or Pagid (orange I think
since they come with Brad's Big Reds) for road racing pads.  The stock
Porsche set is a no-brainer and covers the rotor since they are made for the
calipers.

Kudos and thanks to John Christian again for showing me the pad changing
technique for the first time (trackside too in less than about 10 minutes
for both front pads as well as bleeding the brakes).  I'm not sure if this
procedure is documented exactly as we did it but I'll research that and post
it here if it is not already detailed (like what size tubing to use, catch
cans, etc.).  The right tools make any job easy.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark plug plate

... and a set of Big Reds on the way!

 -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 02:02
To: Geoff Mohler
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower
control a rms?

>
>For what theyre worth..Id still get new ones every few sets of pads W/O a
>cleanup turning.  Just a brush on the flywheel lathe is OK for me.
>

With the stock calipers, the pads did not cover the entire rotor, so they
would leave a sharp, outer ridge on the rotor. We always cut that off
during the cleanup turn. It was only a few thousandths of metal, but very
noticeable.

With my Big Reds, the pads overlap the rotor, so we don't have that
problem. As the pads wear down, they leave about 1/8 in. of pad hanging
over the edge of the rotor. It's a great way to see how much wear is left,
cuz you can see how far the rotor has cut into the pad.

Getting them out can be a trick, because the pads get hooked to the rotor
with the overhang. When we get the pads out, we cut off the overhang on a
grinder, and keep the pads for spares if there's any material left. The
Pagids crumbled badly at the edges even before we ground them down.

Even though I no longer need to cut metal off the rotors, I always like to
do a cleanup turn just to clean off all the pad material buildup and
ridges, and prepare the rotors for new pads. But, like you say, that could
probably be done with a handheld wheel, since they aren't warped.

Still, for $5 a rotor, I'll let a shop do it every time.  I have this GREAT
brake shop. If I carry in the rotors, they turn 'em for $5 each. Can't beat
that, and they know what they are doing. Besides, they can tell me when I
am getting down to the throwaway depth.

I know Flash is going to ask, so I'll answer: For my money, the Hawk Blues
are a great pad. Just take them out for the street, or they will wear like
crazy (they wear great when hot, but like a cheese grater when cold). If
you are getting Brad's Big Reds, buy a set of Blues and a set of stock
Porsche pads, and go back to the stocks after each event. It is SO EASY to
change pads with the Big Reds -- just POP off the big spring and out they
come.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:11:01 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Squirting water - Laser thermometers?

What about something like this? Is 600' F enough?

http://www.linseis.com/lpt600.htm
http://www.smarthome.com/9027.html (cheaper)
http://www.automotivetools.com/online-store/scstore/p-WH-03005-SP.html
(850F, but 2x more $$)
http://www.123supply.com/brightonsir815.html (950F, and less than
200$)
or if you are crazy, and have 1000$+ to spend,
http://www.newportus.com/products/infrared/OS523_4.htm

Fluke has some too, "The Fluke 65 is the ideal tool for measuring
surface temperatures of rotating, hard-to-reach, electrically live, or
dangerously hot targets. (-40 to 932 °F) (AES# F-65), AES Price:
$239.00" http://www.aeswave.com/framedcatalog/product_tools.htm

No prices on this stuff, but it's got datalogging capabilities...
would make a great EGT "probe" as well!
http://www.landinst.com/infr/prods/p-portab.html

Vinny Singh
http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To Shift!"
http://chi.dsm.org - "ChicagoDSM - Go Fast With Class!"
http://manualcd.dsm.org - DSM & 3/S Service manuals on CDROM

>We just need a temperature gauge that reads quick enough off
>brake temps.  A
>thermometer takes too long.  We need a pyrometer
> hooked up to point at the
>rotors and then send the reading to a gauge on the dash.
- -Flash!



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:30:59 +0100
From: "H. Le Hir" <hlehir@lucent.com>
Subject: Team3S: Squirting water : Different approach

Instead of COOLING down the temp, why NOT preventing it to go UP ?

I would try the follwing "think different" approach.

You install a small adjustable switch on the brake pedal (threshold).
and TWO adjustable timers Called T1 and T2, wired with the squirt.

If you brake LESS than the threshold....do nothing

If you brake MORE than that....you have then ...

Wait for T1 seconds (you want your brakes to reach a good working temp)
Then start spraying water on the brakes until T2 seconds AFTER you stop
braking past the threshold.

Of course....I have NO IDEA about the values of T1 and T2....would be test &
trial.

Of course....optimum approach would use infrared pyrometers....but not
exactly the same price....

Henri


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:18:37 -0800
From: "Nickolaos M. Sgouros" <atenag@coqui.net>
Subject: Team3S: "Y" Pipe Blow out

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Friends Hi
Please give me your opinion for this:
I have increased the boost @ 14 psi and when I press the  car (mostly to the
first gear) the “Y” pipe goes out of the throttle body. (The car has K&N
filter and no cats)
The rubber seal is not in the best condition but when I asked for
replacement (Mopar) they told me that it comes together with the “Y”
pipe!!!!
I need to know if the problem will be solved just by changing the seal or I
have to do some modification. The New “Y” with the seal cost here in PR
$140!

Thank you for the support!

Nikos the Greek
92' RT TT
Puerto Rico


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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:10:17 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Squirting water - Laser thermometers?

Thanks, Vinny for all the links as it saved all of us a great deal of time.
I am not sure what the temperature reaches but I thought Rich mentioned that
it can sometimes peak at over 1200 F.  I know there is some paint out there
for the calipers or the ends of the rotor or something where you paint it on
a spot and depending on if it turned a different color or not tells you what
temperature it is.

Another way is a temperature "tape" strip that works like one of those
thermometers on a fish tank and lights up the number the temperature is (I
haven't seen these yet).

For most applications I assume 900 F is good enough but I can't be for sure.
I would be interested to see numbers for our cars and then numbers from
someone doing brake cooling tactics.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 ... anxiously awaiting my first set of Big Reds
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Vineet Singh (3S) [mailto:stealthtt@ecanfix.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 03:11
To: Schilberg, Darren
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Squirting water - Laser thermometers?

What about something like this? Is 600' F enough?

http://www.linseis.com/lpt600.htm
http://www.smarthome.com/9027.html (cheaper)
http://www.automotivetools.com/online-store/scstore/p-WH-03005-SP.html
(850F, but 2x more $$)
http://www.123supply.com/brightonsir815.html (950F, and less than
200$)
or if you are crazy, and have 1000$+ to spend,
http://www.newportus.com/products/infrared/OS523_4.htm

Fluke has some too, "The Fluke 65 is the ideal tool for measuring
surface temperatures of rotating, hard-to-reach, electrically live, or
dangerously hot targets. (-40 to 932 °F) (AES# F-65), AES Price:
$239.00" http://www.aeswave.com/framedcatalog/product_tools.htm

No prices on this stuff, but it's got datalogging capabilities...
would make a great EGT "probe" as well!
http://www.landinst.com/infr/prods/p-portab.html

Vinny Singh
http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To Shift!"
http://chi.dsm.org - "ChicagoDSM - Go Fast With Class!"
http://manualcd.dsm.org - DSM & 3/S Service manuals on CDROM

>We just need a temperature gauge that reads quick enough off
>brake temps.  A
>thermometer takes too long.  We need a pyrometer
> hooked up to point at the
>rotors and then send the reading to a gauge on the dash.
- -Flash!


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:13:23 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo Timers

I haven't taken apart a VR4 turbo yet, but when I disassembled my Eclipse
GSX turbo, which is also water cooled, the oil lines feeding the turbo were
coked up quite a bit.  I have a turbo timer on one of my VR4's, but not the
other.  My son also has a timer on his VR4.  After a session at the track, I
always let the car idle for a while until I can put my hand on the intake
manifold without screaming out in pain.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Cooper [SMTP:scooper@paradise.net.nz]
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:49 PM
> Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo Timers
>
> Hi all
>
> I'll put in my 2 cents worth. I've had turbo cars for over 20 years now
> and
> never "cooked" a turbo. I've never had a turbo timer and think they're a
> waste of time. The original idea was to let them cool a bit so the oil
> doesn't overheat in the bearings and "coke" up. Our mitsubishi turbos have
> watercooled housings unlike old fashioned Rajay turbos from 20 years ago.
>
> Steve Cooper
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:34:01 -0500
From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs <Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Steering wheel shake

Chad,
I was experiencing the same symptoms about a month ago, and I kept
getting worse and worse shaking at the steering wheel.  It seemed it
didn't feel shaky until after I braked a few times - like after the
rotors got hot.

I pulled the wheels, and tested the rotors according to the manual (read
3000GT-bible).  They were within spec, but barely.  I wish I had tested
the rotors once they get hot, but I didn't.  Since I had it disassembled
anyway, I decided to have the rotors turned by a local machine shop that
rebuilds motors.  $11 each.  PepBoys charges $6 each, but the
professional machine shop does a great job.  They cleaned them up
pretty, and looked brand new.

The resurfacing has made the shake go away while braking.  But I let it
get so bad that I still feel the shake while turning at high speeds
now.  I probably need to replace some bushings or tie-rod ends.

The manual says the rotors need to be turned on the car.  If you clean
everything well and check the runout carefully you don't have to. 

I hope this helps.  You can always MAKE the dealer resurface them
anyway.  It is your car, you are paying them to do it.

 ----- Original Message -----
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:29:09 -0800
>From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
>Subject: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control arms?
>
>Over the past few months, my car has developed a steering wheel shake while
>braking, which is really noticeable at highway speeds.  I took it into the
>dealer to have the rotors resurfaced, thinking that it was just warped
>rotors.
>
>The dealer told me that the rotors are fine, but that both of my lower
>lateral control arms need to be replaced, and quoted me $900. 
> -snip

- --
Marc J. Jacobs Blue '94 VR-4
xDSL Hardware Development
Alcatel, USA     (919) 850-6386

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jan 2001 14:47:35 +0000
From: martin berkley <3000gto@breathe.com>
Subject: Team3S: hesitation at light throttle

Hi All
I have just replaced my plugs with NGK's, stock air filter, fuel filter, OEM oil filter and Castrol Magnatec synthetic 10w 40.
But my 92 GTO TT still has a slight hesitation at light throttle, i.e if i accellerate hard to 3000 rpm and then back of the throttle, it feels like it is holding back or missing.
I thought this may be due to the plug gap being to wide and the spark being blown out, but having changed the plugs and the fuel & air filter, i thought it would cure the problem but alas not.
Anyone any ideas?
BTW i did run the car @ idle for 15mins after reconnecting the battery.
Regards
Martin Berkley


___________________________________________
It's amazing what happens when you breathe.
www.breathe.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:52:23 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS Indicator Light

Okay, the three day weekend gave me a chance to look up how to read the ECS
trouble codes with a voltmeter.

1.  Find the datalink connector under the dash in the driver's side.
A.  1ST GENERATION - connect + to pin 3, - to pin 12.  Pin 3 is the
third down on the left side, before the double space. Pin 12 is the lower
right corner.
B.  2ND GENERATION - connect + to pin 3, - to pin 4 or 5.  Pin 3 is
the third from the top left side of the connector ( on the log side of the
trapezoid), pin 4 and 5 are next to the right.

2.  Turn the ignition on.

3.  Look at the voltmeter.  The code is repeated many times.  Seven (7)
short deflections is code =0, and means everything is wonderful.

4.  Other codes are:  1 long, 1 short = 11, G sensor bad.
2 long, 1 short=21, steering angular velocity sensor open
2 long, 4 short=24, speed sensor open

These codes don't disappear until ingnition switch is off, even if you fix
the problem.

5.  These codes disappear when you correct the problem:
6 long, 1 short=61, Front Right shock
6 long, 2 short=62, Front left shock
6 long, 3 short=63, Rear right shock
6 long, 4 short=64, Rear Left shock

MFI trouble codes are read in a similar manner, but different pins.

FIRST GENERATION - connect + to pin 1, - to pin 12.
SECOND GENERATION - Connect pin 1 to GROUND and watch the CHECK ENGINE light
flashes for same sort of patterns - long flashes (1.5 sec) are tens digit,
short (0.5 sec) flashes are ones digit.  That gets you the same codes you
would read on the Scan Tool.

You clear codes by disconnecting the battery for 10 seconds, reconnecting
and idling the car for 15 min to make sure the codes don't return.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Brown [SMTP:cnbrown@uswest.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 9:39 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: Re: Team3S: ECS Indicator Light
>
> Chruck, thanks for the reply!  Where do you read the trouble code?  I will
> check the tower struts connections.
>
> Chris
>
> "Willis, Charles E." wrote:
>
> > You may have a loose or corroded connector on one of the four shocks, or
> a
> > broken wire in the ECS harness leading to the connectors.  If you read
> the
> > trouble code, it will tell you which shock(s) are causing the fault.
> > Another possibility is that the shaft on one of the shocks has rotated
> so
> > that it barely makes electrical contact. We learned that the orientation
> of
> > the shaft in the electrically controlled shocks is important when we
> > installed our Ground Control suspension.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris Brown [SMTP:cnbrown@uswest.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:18 PM
> > > To:   Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > > Subject:      Team3S: ECS Indicator Light
> > >
> > > I have a 92 Stealth RT that has recently developed a problem with the
> > > ECS sport/tour indicator light. You will be driving along with it set
> > > in  either sport or tour, then suddenly the indicator begins to flash
> > > both sport and tour almost like a turn signal.  You can push the ECS
> > > button to try and make a selection but it will not stop the flashing
> of
> > > the indicator light.  The only way to get it to stop is to turn the
> car
> > > off, and start it up again.  But within a few minutes the same thing
> > > happens again.  Any ideas on what is going on here?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris Brown
> > > '92 Stealth R/T
> > >
> > >
> > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:58:57 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steering wheel shake

I think a lot of people are exagerating the effect of tuning rotors on rotor
heat survival.  There is a heck of a lot of metal on the rotor, and they
don't seem that much lighter after the shop takes 2-3 thousandths of an inch
off the surface to remove the glaze.  The more metallic the pads we use, the
more sensitive they are to slight imperfections in the rotor surface.  Some
people say these surface imperfections are "warpage", but I prefer to
consider them "uneven wear".  I have my cross-drilled rotors turned after
every track event.  I have not had a broken rotor or one "warped" beyond
what the machine shop would take off in three seasons.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs [SMTP:Marc.Jacobs@usa.alcatel.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:34 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Steering wheel shake
>
> Chad,
> I was experiencing the same symptoms about a month ago, and I kept
> getting worse and worse shaking at the steering wheel.  It seemed it
> didn't feel shaky until after I braked a few times - like after the
> rotors got hot.
>
> I pulled the wheels, and tested the rotors according to the manual (read
> 3000GT-bible).  They were within spec, but barely.  I wish I had tested
> the rotors once they get hot, but I didn't.  Since I had it disassembled
> anyway, I decided to have the rotors turned by a local machine shop that
> rebuilds motors.  $11 each.  PepBoys charges $6 each, but the
> professional machine shop does a great job.  They cleaned them up
> pretty, and looked brand new.
>
> The resurfacing has made the shake go away while braking.  But I let it
> get so bad that I still feel the shake while turning at high speeds
> now.  I probably need to replace some bushings or tie-rod ends.
>
> The manual says the rotors need to be turned on the car.  If you clean
> everything well and check the runout carefully you don't have to. 
>
> I hope this helps.  You can always MAKE the dealer resurface them
> anyway.  It is your car, you are paying them to do it.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> >Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:29:09 -0800
> >From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
> >Subject: Team3S: Steering wheel shake while breaking = Lower control
> arms?
> >
> >Over the past few months, my car has developed a steering wheel shake
> while
> >braking, which is really noticeable at highway speeds.  I took it into
> the
> >dealer to have the rotors resurfaced, thinking that it was just warped
> >rotors.
> >
> >The dealer told me that the rotors are fine, but that both of my lower
> >lateral control arms need to be replaced, and quoted me $900. 
> > -snip
>
> --
> Marc J. Jacobs Blue '94 VR-4
> xDSL Hardware Development
> Alcatel, USA     (919) 850-6386
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:12:01 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: hesitation at light throttle

> But my 92 GTO TT still has a slight hesitation at light throttle,
> i.e if i accellerate hard to 3000 rpm and then back of the
> throttle, it feels like it is holding back or missing.

Do you still have the factory blowoff (compressor bypass) valve installed on
the car or do you have an aftermarket version?  If aftermarket and it isn't
vented back into the intake this is the primary symptom it can cause.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:57:20 -0500
From: Rick Diogo <rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Team3S: Vr-4 parts for sale

Air box assembly for 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T twin turbo.  - make offer

Pair of wastegates from same car - make offer

Pair of NEW turbochargers for 94 R/T turbo.  Make offer. These are new in
the box- never used.

All parts located in Florida.  Buyer pays shipping.




***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:14:21 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Squirting water

A relatively easy solution is to move the battery to the back of the car,
spiral cell/gel would be best [ I have one - not installed yet ] or a lead
acid in a case --- this would allow the installation of a much larger water
reservoir then you can spray till your rotors rust.

        Jim  berry
==============================================

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>


> >
> Well, like I said, if I could just figure out where I was wasting water,
> that would be a huge help.
> It'd make the water I have last the entire session.
>
> Rich


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:04:57 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Squirting water : Different approach

At 12:30 PM 1/16/01 +0100, H. Le Hir wrote:
>Instead of COOLING down the temp, why NOT preventing it to go UP ?

Very interesting. In the spirit of the old think tanks, where nobody had a
bad idea, I'll offer a few comments here and there to help channel the
thinking.
>
>You install a small adjustable switch on the brake pedal (threshold).
>and TWO adjustable timers Called T1 and T2, wired with the squirt.
>If you brake LESS than the threshold....do nothing

We rarely brake less than the threshold. It's usually ON or OFF, little in
between.
>
>If you brake MORE than that....you have then ...
>Wait for T1 seconds (you want your brakes to reach a good working temp)

The brakes get to a good working temp at the first application and stay
there for the rest of the 20-minute session.

>Then start spraying water on the brakes until T2 seconds AFTER you stop
>braking past the threshold.

Hmmm....you want to keep the temps down by using a water spray to keep them
from going up.
Interesting approach.  Obviously, if the temp could be kept at, say 750 F,
the braking would be more effective than if they were allowed to reach
1400F.  Seems to be a simple thermodynamics problem: What is the optimum
braking temp? How much water would be needed to remove the excess heat
generated by hard braking a 4,000 lb car? Maybe the brake pad dudes know
the answers to these questions.
>
>Of course....I have NO IDEA about the values of T1 and T2....would be test &
>trial.

Not necessarily. It probably could be calculated.
>
>Of course....optimum approach would use infrared pyrometers....but not
>exactly the same price....

Or thermocouples.
Thanks for the contribution.

Rich


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:23:13 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Failed Active Aero

Now I have new front wheel bearings on my '93 VR4!

As advertised, the process was relatively easy.  There were some exceptions.
You know, paranoia always extends the time required the first time you
perform a task on a car.  I have some photos, which I will develop and scan
later.

1. To loosen the nut that holds the bearing hub assembly on to the drive
shaft, you have to first remove the cotter pin.  To remove the cotter pin,
the wheel has to be off.  To unscrew the nut, you need the weight of the car
and a wheel chock to help you, which means the wheel needs to be back on,
but with the hub cap off.  If you forget, you can take the hub cap off from
with the wheel still mounted.

2.  The assembly has undergone a design change.  The 4 studs and nuts that
held the old version to the knuckle have been replaced with bolts that go
from inboard to outboard.

3.  There is not enough room to get a socket on these nuts because of the
bell-shaped cover that protects the coding ring on the drive shaft.  Even
though these were supposed to be torqued to 76 ftlbs, I had to put a 17 mm
box end wrench on it and whail away with a hammer.  The nuts had been
torqued down so hard that the lock washers had cut into the metal of the
nuts.

4.  I didn't have to remove the ABS sensors.

5.  I used white lithium grease on the end of the drive shaft and inside of
the bearings, although the service manual didn't say anything about
lubrication.  There was a lot of rust inside the old units, and I cleaned
this out pretty well, so I didn't think this grease would hurt anything.

6.  Torquing the big nut back on again requires the wheel on and chocked and
the hubcap off.  You get it lined up with a pair of holes and then you have
to remove the wheel to put the cotter pin in.

7.  I probably didn't need to replace the bearings.  The old ones still seem
to work, but with 88K miles on them, new ones won't hurt.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Middaugh [SMTP:Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 3:18 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Failed Active Aero
>
>
> > I wish Adam had listed a procedure for replacing front wheel bearings -
> I
> > still think I'm going to get into this and wind up screwed.
>
> For a VR4, the front bearings come in a whole hub assembly, about $67 each
> side.  The assembly has bearings, wheel studs, everything.  Lots of metal
> for
> $67!  Removal and installation should be easy enough.  I still have mine
> in a
> box though, but I'll look at the manual soon.
> --
> If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.
>
> Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
> General Atomics - Fusion Group, San Diego, CA

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:34:05 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: How to remove the 2nd generation passenger side fog light?

I remember seeing someone else ask this question a couple of months ago, and
thinking how silly.  Well, I'm not laughing now.  I am trying to remove the
bumper and the service manual says to remove the foglights.  I got the
driver's side off (two 10 mm nuts located on top of the assembly so you
can't see them) and one of the two on the passenger side off, actually from
the front of the car.  The last damned nut is stuck. Of course the moron who
put the thing back together last time didn't use a 10 mm, maybe a 12 mm,
maybe an English nut.  I have dropped the air dam assembly to give me more
room. I've used a socket and U-joint.  There just doesn't seem to be enough
room to get the thing to turn.

Can I remove the bumper if I just disconnect the electrical connection to
the fog lamp?

Is there yet another trick to getting the last nut off?

This car had some minor collision damage repaired poorly.  A lot of my time
is going toward cleaning up messes the jake-leg body shop made.  The nut
substitution is just one of many.

Chuck 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:41:25 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Failed Active Aero

> To unscrew the nut, you need the weight of the car and a
> wheel chock to help you, which means the wheel needs to
> be back on, but with the hub cap off.

Or you can have a helper sit in the car and hold the brakes down while you
go at the nut with a socket and breaker bar.  You could also wedge something
between the brake pedal and the seat to hold the brake down.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: 16 Jan 2001 16:56:48 +0000
From: martin berkley <3000gto@breathe.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE:hesitation at light throttle

Everything is stock on the car except for the Exhaust pipe which is a big bore single Japanese racing pipe in stainless steel, but this has been on since i bought the car a year ago but the hesitation has only started to happen a month ago.
One thing i did notice when changing the plugs was that there is no EGR pipe on the car, but checking with Mitsubishi they say that one is not listed on my chassis number anyway.
Regards
Martin

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 3:12 PM
To: 'martin berkley'; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: hesitation at light throttle


> But my 92 GTO TT still has a slight hesitation at light throttle,
> i.e if i accellerate hard to 3000 rpm and then back of the
> throttle, it feels like it is holding back or missing.

Do you still have the factory blowoff (compressor bypass) valve installed on
the car or do you have an aftermarket version?  If aftermarket and it isn't
vented back into the intake this is the primary symptom it can cause.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***




___________________________________________
It's amazing what happens when you breathe.
www.breathe.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:10:39 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: "Y" Pipe Blow out

Hi Nikos,

> Friends Hi
> Please give me your opinion for this:
> I have increased the boost @ 14 psi and when I press the  car (mostly to the
> first gear) the ?Y? pipe goes out of the throttle body. (The car has K&N
> filter and no cats)
> The rubber seal is not in the best condition but when I asked for
> replacement (Mopar) they told me that it comes together with the ?Y?
> pipe!!!!
> I need to know if the problem will be solved just by changing the seal or I
> have to do some modification. The New ?Y? with the seal cost here in PR
> $140!

Here is an old post of mine...

<<<
You  should be able to remove (cut off ?) the stock hose from the y-pipe.  Then
just buy a short length of 2.75" (??, measure before you buy:)) hose and 2
clamps.  Check out the silicone hose & T-clamps at
http://www.turbocharged.com/main.htm, catolog, "T", silicone connectors.

When I bought my car, it was months before I discovered that the previous owner
had already done this.  The orange silicone hose has lasted me over 2.5 years
without any trouble, it is very rugged.
>>>

Good luck,
Ken

- --
If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics - Fusion Group, San Diego, CA

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #379
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