team3s           Wednesday, January 10 2001           Volume 01 : Number 373




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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:11:59 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Admin message (snip !)

Dear members

The majority of the latest posts do contain the total thread of the topic in
their body. But we all received the original posts too so please "snip-out"
the unneeded previous parts in your posts.

Thanks for your understanding and ...
..... always look out of the front window when driving, even if your
passenger is sooo sexy ;-)

Roger for the admins


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 21:57:35 -0500
From: "Karl Siebert" <ksiebert@gow.org>
Subject: Team3S: 60k tune-up question (sorry guys)

I know everybody is sick of people posting 60k service questions, but I just
bought my 91'stealth ES.  It has 88k on it and the person that owned it
NEVER DID THE 60K TUNE UP!  I am not going to drive it until I do it, and
have a few questions before I take it apart and order all of the
parts/tools.  I've read the pages on the 3S web site and they were very
helpful, but am unclear about a few things.

1.  Tools/    Do I NEED all three of these tools?  If so, what EXACTLY are
they used for?
- -end yoke holder (MD990767-01),
- -tensioner pulley socket wrench (MD998752-01),
- -this one was in the service manual, but I'm not sure what it is
(MD998767-01)?

2.  Parts/    are these parts correct?

- -timing belt
- -water pump
- -power steering belt
- -A/C belt
- -Tensioner('s) (is this a pullie, and are there two of them (upper and
lower), or just one?)

Is there anything I'm missing, or anything that I'm going to buy that I
don't need?  Can you explain the tools to me?
 Thanks guys,
Karl

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:59:09 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Failed Active Aero

"Usually when the rear wing sticks in the up position, all you need to
do is
take the wing off the car and disassemble the motor and linkage, clean
all
the old grease out and re-grease the area where the motor gear mates
up to
the linkage teeth. Also, put some graphite lube on the sliders at the
ends.
Once this is done, the wing should move freely again. No new parts are
req'd most of the time.

Wayne"

This is EXACTLY what Mike and I did to his car about 2 months ago... 3
times. 3rd time we went all the way through it to clean it out. You
MUST use the manual procedure for aligning the motor and gear, and the
arms that move the sliders. Do not try to force anything, since the
motor is a SCREW drive (it will not turn, just strip if you try to
turn stuff manually).

Oh, the 3rd time it worked fine :), and still does today. I think
stuff wears out from not using it, so use your active aero once in a
while... Stealths don't have such silliness :)

Vinny Singh
http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To Shift!"
http://chi.dsm.org - "ChicagoDSM - Go Fast With Class!"
http://manualcd.dsm.org - DSM & 3/S Service manuals on CDROM


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:14:55 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60k tune-up question (sorry guys)

Karl:

I wrote the VFAQ, so I guess I'll stab at answering you first:

Karl Siebert wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> 1.  Tools/    Do I NEED all three of these tools?  If so, what EXACTLY are
> they used for?
> -end yoke holder (MD990767-01),

The end yoke holder tool is used for leverage when
bolting/torqueing or unbolting the crankshaft pulley. 
You need this tool.

> -tensioner pulley socket wrench (MD998752-01),

This wrench is ABSOLUTELY necessary for correctly torquing
the tensioner pulley.  If you don't have this tool, don't
bother doing the work yourself.  Incorrectly torquing this
part may end up trashing your engine.

> -this one was in the service manual, but I'm not sure what it is
> (MD998767-01)?

My manual is out on loan, so can't say what this tool is,
but if you read the VFAQ thoroughly
(http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/60k.htm), you'll see that
I didn't use it.  Just the two special Mitsu tools with
the usual assortment of box/open/socket wrenches.
>
> 2.  Parts/    are these parts correct?
>
> -timing belt
> -water pump
> -power steering belt
> -A/C belt
> -Tensioner('s) (is this a pullie, and are there two of them (upper and
> lower), or just one?)

Re-read the parts list (with part numbers) on the VFAQ
page.  Your list here is missing the gaskets.  As for
the tensioner, some folks have replaced it, others
have not.  There is a highlighted note on the bottom
of the VFAQ page that specifically addresses the
replacement of the tensioner.  I personally did not
replace the tensioner, and at 91k as of yesterday,
(knock wood), it's working just fine.  It's a choice
for you alone to make.
 
> Is there anything I'm missing, or anything that I'm going to buy that I
> don't need?  Can you explain the tools to me?

The tools are explained and illustrated with pictures
in the VFAQ, including how to use them.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:07:59 -0600
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Raceline Wheel Group Purchase

Hey guys, www.ctcmotorsports.com is doing a group purchase on Raceline
wheels.  Here's the pricing and sizing info:

http://www.impreza-rs.com/NonCGI/Forum16/HTML/000289.html

They look like they're very light and cheap too (for what you get).  If you
have any questions e-mail kyle@ctcmotorsports.com and he can answer them for
you.

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'95 Chevrolet K1500 Z71




***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:06:26 -0800
From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Failed Active Aero

Actually, my rear wing used to stick in the up position as well, and I
replaced the microswitches in the motor assembly with replacement ones from
Radio Shack.  I believe the switches were only about $2 each and they
mounted in place of the old ones perfectly.  I probably only had to replace
one of them (since it never had a problem going up, just down) but it wasn't
that much extra work to do both.  Once you have the wing taken apart, it's
just a few minutes with a soldering iron and you're done.

Ever since then, the rear spoiler has worked perfectly for me.  Now if I
could just figure out what's wrong with the front one.  I usually get one or
two cycles out of it before the aero light comes on, and it won't work again
until the next time I start the car.  I got under there to try to remove it
and look at the motor, but I couldn't really figure out how to remove the
front spoiler.

I believe in many (if not most) cases, it's just the microswitches that have
gone bad, and the motor is perfectly fine.  Don't waste your money on the
$200 motor assembly until you try replacing the microswitches.

I believe the replacement switch was this one, or at least one very similar
to this (catalog #275-017):
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CT
LG%5F010%5F007%5F007%5F000&product%5Fid=275%2D017


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'Gabriel Estrada'" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>; "3000gt"
<team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Failed Active Aero


> Yes, that's the way it fails.  This is the infamous "bad limit switches on
> the spoiler motor" failure mode.  You have to replace the motor and it's
not
> cheap (like $200).  I recall something in the past about somebody trying
to
> fix the motor, but I don't remember anything positive about it.  I
replaced
> mine last year.  Bite the bullet.  You might find a working motor in a
> wrecking yard, but they are probably going to want to sell you the
complete
> spoiler assembly.



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:06:37 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

My clutch is starting to slip on my 95 VR-4. I was wondering what clutch
would you guys recommend for my future setup. My car is mostly stock except
for a K&N FIPK. I'm planning to go with either a 13g or 15g turbo upgrade,
but will probably stay under 15psi till I upgrade my fuel system.

I'm looking for a clutch suitable for this setup, but will also be suitable
for my car when I eventually do turn up the boost. Also I'm looking for a
clutch that is streetable, and doesn't chatter or doesn't chatter too bad.

Regards,
Michael Bulaon


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:19:56 -0600
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: Team3S: Looking for help from a member in MA

I am attempting help a friend of mine find his first 3S.  We have found a
'94 RT/TT in Agawam, MA (a suburb of Springfield) and are looking for
someone who would be able to look the car over.  If anyone is in that area,
and doesn't mind "testing" one out for us, please let me know.  :-)

John Basol
'95 RT/TT

Russ Schwanke
'90 Talon Tsi  <-- Needing to be magically turned into a Stealth.



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:30:37 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

I am having my flywheel (thanks Jack T.), clutch, and tranny replaced this
week.  It has been recommended that the stock clutch be used for most
applications (even up to about 450 hp) as they are fairly beefy to begin
with and are not prone to the same blow-ups as RPS.  Two people I know have
had an RPS for years and two have had them blow up nearly after 500 miles.
To me that meant to go with the stock which has been used for 70,000 cars
and seem to do quite well.

It all depends on what you like (street driving, AutoX, road racing) and the
clutch can be set up stiffer than stock, etc.

But I am learning that there are other things that also help (lighter
flywheel, different clutch styles, puck materials, etc.).  Don't overlook
the stock bits (which are only $260 for the clutch) but give it some good
thought since getting TO the clutch is about $500 of labor so you don't want
to do it very often (unless you have Jeff Mohler as a backyard neighbor).

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bulaon [mailto:profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 8:07 AM
To: Team 3s
Subject: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

My clutch is starting to slip on my 95 VR-4. I was wondering what clutch
would you guys recommend for my future setup. My car is mostly stock except
for a K&N FIPK. I'm planning to go with either a 13g or 15g turbo upgrade,
but will probably stay under 15psi till I upgrade my fuel system.

I'm looking for a clutch suitable for this setup, but will also be suitable
for my car when I eventually do turn up the boost. Also I'm looking for a
clutch that is streetable, and doesn't chatter or doesn't chatter too bad.

Regards,
Michael Bulaon


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:29:27 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?--My RPS clutch update.

I think a DSM owner (Eclipse/Talon) summed it up last night when he said,
"RPS stands for Really Poor Service.".  There seemed to be a mass agreement
among 10 other DSM owners in the chat room.

It is now January and RPS still hasn't returned my "Blown up clutch" that I
sent in for warranty.  (I sent it in early November).  My experience with
other RPS warranties that I have sent in is the same.  Usually takes 2-3
months for a warranty claim to be processed.

Those of you, who talk to RPS on a regular basis, tell Rob/Gary to send me a
full refund for the clutch and labor it cost my customer to reinstall a
clutch after his RPS clutch blew up.  I'm at the point where I'm just going
to scream bad things every time I see this thread.  We must unite and stop
the spread of faulty 3si products.   :)


You might look at the ACT brand clutch, it's a bit more expensive, but will
use a higher strength pressure plate.  I have had excellent service with
warranty claims with ACT.
I have also had good luck with the OS Giken clutch.  HOWEVER, I don't' feel
this is a "streetable" option.   I have also run multiple low eleven-second
passes with the stock clutch.  I know of several others who have also.


Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Schilberg, Darren
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:31 AM
To: 'Michael Bulaon'; Team 3s
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

I am having my flywheel (thanks Jack T.), clutch, and tranny replaced this
week.  It has been recommended that the stock clutch be used for most
applications (even up to about 450 hp) as they are fairly beefy to begin
with and are not prone to the same blow-ups as RPS.  Two people I know have
had an RPS for years and two have had them blow up nearly after 500 miles.
To me that meant to go with the stock which has been used for 70,000 cars
and seem to do quite well.

It all depends on what you like (street driving, AutoX, road racing) and the
clutch can be set up stiffer than stock, etc.

But I am learning that there are other things that also help (lighter
flywheel, different clutch styles, puck materials, etc.).  Don't overlook
the stock bits (which are only $260 for the clutch) but give it some good
thought since getting TO the clutch is about $500 of labor so you don't want
to do it very often (unless you have Jeff Mohler as a backyard neighbor).

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From:   Michael Bulaon [mailto:profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net]
Sent:   Wednesday, January 10, 2001 8:07 AM
To:     Team 3s
Subject:        Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

My clutch is starting to slip on my 95 VR-4. I was wondering what clutch
would you guys recommend for my future setup. My car is mostly stock except
for a K&N FIPK. I'm planning to go with either a 13g or 15g turbo upgrade,
but will probably stay under 15psi till I upgrade my fuel system.

I'm looking for a clutch suitable for this setup, but will also be suitable
for my car when I eventually do turn up the boost. Also I'm looking for a
clutch that is streetable, and doesn't chatter or doesn't chatter too bad.

Regards,
Michael Bulaon


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:40:31 -0600
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

> with and are not prone to the same blow-ups as RPS.  Two people I know have
> had an RPS for years and two have had them blow up nearly after 500 miles.

I have the RPS Stage 2 and it has worked fine. It is highly
streetable (it feels almost identical to the stock clutch), and I use it
at autocross with very good success. It has not slipped or
performed undesirably since I put it in last august.

Don't want RPS to get a totally bad reputation .. :-)

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:53:43 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?--My RPS clutch update.

> You might look at the ACT brand clutch, it's a bit more
> expensive, but will use a higher strength pressure
> plate.  I have had excellent service with warranty
> claims with ACT.

Curt Gendron used the ACT in his previous Stealth TT with good success and I
put one in my Spyder in late fall.  Works good, engagement is good, slightly
higher pedal pressure required to actuate it.  Initially it is pretty
grabby, but as it breaks in it becomes a lot more progressive in its
engagement.  Doesn't slip like the stock clutch with its somewhat wimpy
pressure plate.

I also had the 2600lb pressure plate version in my Eclipse GSX and it is
still working great for the current owner (who really thrashes on the car)
30,000 miles later.  I had put a Centerforce in that same car and it only
lasted 10,000 miles before it terminally slipped the very first time I
dragraced at the Diamond Star Shootout, so I won't personally recommend one
of those.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:09:02 -0600
From: "Trevor L. James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which aftermarket clutch?

Same here...my RPS Stage 2 has never slipped or even so much as smelled funny.
That's with 490+HP. I must've got a good one! :-)

Trevor
96 R/T TT
12.17@116.3
92 GMC Typhoon
13.96@96.4

"Walton C. Gibson" wrote:

> > with and are not prone to the same blow-ups as RPS.  Two people I know have
> > had an RPS for years and two have had them blow up nearly after 500 miles.
>
> I have the RPS Stage 2 and it has worked fine. It is highly
> streetable (it feels almost identical to the stock clutch), and I use it
> at autocross with very good success. It has not slipped or
> performed undesirably since I put it in last august.
>
> Don't want RPS to get a totally bad reputation .. :-)
>
> Walton C. Gibson
> kalla@tripoint.org
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:42:07 -0500
From: "Karl Siebert" <ksiebert@gow.org>
Subject: Team3S: transmision question

I know that the 6 speed transmissions (getrag?) found in vr-4's and tt's
have a lot of problems.  They are hard to find parts for and are a expensive
to fix.  I have a Stealth ES, and it has a 5 speed.  Is the transmission
made by the same people, and is it as much of a problem?  Can it be rebuilt,
or can I find parts for it?

Thanks,
Karl

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:35:20 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: transmision question

Karl,

Good luck finding the dream transmission.  I had a 1996 Honda Accord EX
Sedan (just about the middle of the road family car).  We all know how Honda
makes bulletproof transmissions which can run 100,000 miles before
maintenance and over 250,000 miles easily.

Well I shredded the 5-Reverse synchro (on the same spline I believe) and am
proud to have added that to my "wall of shame."  Fortunately, the complete
replacement only cost $1,400 (a dream for any of us owners now).
Incidentally, I had the car at the track the weekend before and never
shifted into 5th but did shift into reverse to back into the Pit spot.  When
I got home reverse did not work.  Odd.

Anyway, just take care not to blow it up too much and take care of it and it
will last a good while.  Enough of us have their cars over and beyond
100,000 miles and sometimes on their first transmission still.  That is why
a warranty is so important for our cars.  And not to even get into the Dana
buying Getrag thread again.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Karl Siebert [mailto:ksiebert@gow.org]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 1:42 PM

I know that the 6 speed transmissions (getrag?) found in vr-4's and tt's
have a lot of problems.  They are hard to find parts for and are a expensive
to fix.  I have a Stealth ES, and it has a 5 speed.  Is the transmission
made by the same people, and is it as much of a problem?  Can it be rebuilt,
or can I find parts for it?


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:31:32 EST
From: StevePKT77@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: transmission question

I don't know I heard the 6-speeds are more reliable than the 5... but who
really knows.  The trans's in the non-turbos are not getrag, they're in fact
mitsubishi and can be rebuilt.  There is not nearly as much talk about these
trans's dying, compared to those of the TT's/VR4's, but I'm sure that the
extra 100+hp and the awd issues have much to do with that pattern.
- -Steve

In a message dated 01/10/2001 12:31:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ksiebert@gow.org writes:

<< I know that the 6 speed transmissions (getrag?) found in vr-4's and tt's
 have a lot of problems.  They are hard to find parts for and are a expensive
 to fix.  I have a Stealth ES, and it has a 5 speed.  Is the transmission
 made by the same people, and is it as much of a problem?  Can it be rebuilt,
 or can I find parts for it? >>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:33:51 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: transmission question

> The trans's in the non-turbos are not getrag,
> they're in fact mitsubishi and can be rebuilt.

Yep, that's right.  I had my 1st and 2nd gear synchros and gears replaced
under warranty 2 years ago.  Works like a charm now.

- --Erik

- ------                                             ----------
Erik Gross                                         DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC, 5-speed)          76,000 mi
   Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
   Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
   K&N FIPK, Mobil 1 10W30 w/ OEM oil filter, Skippy PCV CC
'94 Algae Blue "Ain't No 3000" Corolla               72,000mi
- -------------------------------------------------------------


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:40:29 -0500
From: "Michael D. Crose" <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Securing and Optima battery?

<html><DIV>Hi, </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Any of you that have an optima battery care to tell me what you did to keep it from moving because it shorter than the stock one and the bracket doesn't secure it very well?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Michael</DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:03:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Securing and Optima battery?

Hunk of wood, or other similar method to fill the space is acceptable if
done cleanly and wiht some imagination.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Michael D. Crose wrote:

> Hi,

> Any of you that have an optima battery care to tell me what you did to
> keep it from moving because it shorter than the stock one and the bracket
> doesn't secure it very well?

> Thanks,
> Michael
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> *** Info: http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:48:13 -0500
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: Team3S: ACT or stock clutch?

I'm looking to replace my severely slipping stock clutch on my 95 VR-4. I've
ruled out any RPS clutch and have narrowed it down to either an ACT or a
stock clutch.

I don't plan to be a regular at the track this season, but I will be there
occasionally, not to mention the occasional street race. So just wondering
if the stock clutch would suffice or am I better off with the ACT?

If the ACT, which one? According to ACT's site, there are two clutches for
the VR-4. One with a 6pad disc, and another with modified street disc. Which
one should I get? I was thinking of getting the 6pad to accomodate the turbo
upgrade I plan to do in the near future. But how streetable is the 6pad
disc. Any one with experience with ACT clutches?

Any thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.......

Regards,
Michael Bulaon


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #373
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