team3s            Monday, December 18 2000            Volume 01 : Number 355




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Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:32:55 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ABS light..

Don't forget the ever popular faulty connection...

- -Cody

#> What does it mean when the ABS light comes on??  Just
#> came on when I started the car tonight.. did some 120
#> to 30 brake runs earlier today.. but the light came on
#> 6+ hours later..
#
#possible causes :
#1) brake fluid level
#2) leaking line (brake pressure drop)
#3) ABS motor failure
#4) ABS sensor faulty
#5) ABS ECU died

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:48:35 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dataloger experts help!!

George

I can only guess that you still are running those ultra-hot iridum plugs,
are you ?? Have you already changed the fronts to see if this makes a
significant difference ?

For the log, it is interesting also see the airflow signal from the ARC !

> I suggest this because the log shows you are running rich (0.96 V
> from O2 and up to 100% IDC with 550s at only 0.8 bar boost) yet are
> hitting knock at the very high level of 28. The rich condition
> reflects the average of what is going on but it takes only 1 cylinder
> to cause this much knock. If the fuel isn't the cause, I think you
> may have a problem in only one or two cylinders not a general
> problem.

Well, George has forged pistons but this is still aluminum and will melt for
sure too (maby a little later). And yes, I fully agree with Jeff on his
findings and the IDC is very, very strange.

But, guys, have you seen what is really stange : look at the TPS voltage ...
tataaaa what is going on there ? It must be at least on 90% at WOT and
therefore the ECU has a misinterpretation in your case. IMHO, this is the
base thing to fix, whatever the final problem is. You know, to get the ARC
working, the TPS must be adjusted and sometimes the thing may brake loose
again if not fixed well.
Ok, after the iridium plugs have found their way out and stock ones back in,
only connect the TMO to the ECU and switch to ign on. Then go to the DRBII
readings and check the voltage of the TPS with the throttle fully down. Then
check if the throttle cable is ok and has onyl little play to the TB. Then
check the TPS if it is loose. If not, try to adjust it in the possible range
and see if the voltage is changing closer to the 5V level. If not, it is
gone and must be replaced. Hey, the datalogger rules ;-) ehy ?

> A reminder to all 3S owners without the TMO - knock can be a **silent**
killer in our engines.

The timing is horribly retarded for sure and I don't want to see the white
coating on the inside of the turbo of the excessive heat ! If you'd have an
EGT I'm sure it would have already bent the dial !!

I can only double Jeffs words and I can tell you I haven't heard of that
much rebuilds in 2000 than any year before. And the most weren't heavy
racers or did not run above the limit. One thing for sure : if you run more
than stock boost 92 oct fuel is NOT APPROPRIATE !

Good luck
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:55:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Follow up to 15Gs

..and unless someone can produce compressor maps..dont buy it. 

it'll do you good to learn how to read and compare maps.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Barry E. King wrote:

> Hopefully it is clear to all that flow at any given RPM is just one aspect
> in choosing a turbo and not necessarily even the most important factor.
> There are other characteristics such as peak flow capability (at a given
> turbine RPM), efficiency, rate of increase in boost, ability to maintain a
> given boost and the list goes on.  Reliability is also an important issue
> for those that aren't into changing turbos twice a year.
>
> In other words, it does matter what turbo one chooses.
>
>
> Barry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > I have a comprehensive turbo upgrade guide at my web site at:
> >
> > http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm
> >
> > Please remember that mass air flow is determined by the engine RPM,
> > engine volumetric efficiency, and air density. At 5000 RPM and 15 psi
> > plenum pressure and a certain air temp, a particular engine "flows" X
> > anount of air. It makes no difference at all which turbo is used.
> > That being said, I have heard good things about the GT357 turbos. It
> > is on my short list of replacements for my 15Gs. I'm not sure you
> > need any more turbo than 15Gs for road racing though.
> >
> > If you decide to try replacing these yourself, I have Errin's
> > instructions at my web site at:
> >
> > http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-tsg_v10.htm
> >
> > Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:00:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Follow up to 15Gs

Looks like the best turbo for "general" use is perhaps the 15G, the 18
wheel has some healhy lag over the 15, and the 368 would be useless for
road racing..probly just pull into the pits after a few laps from
frustration.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Jeff Lucius wrote:

> I absolutely agree Barry!
>
> I was just pointing out that the giant 368 turbos flow no more air
> than 15G turbos at the same plenum pressure AND temperature. With a
> superb IC setup, turbo compressor efficiency is reduced to a minor
> consideration. A perfect IC (if it existed) would reduce any turbo
> output temp to ambient.
>
> Probably the most important consideration is the the pressure ratio
> vs. CFM values and how they compare to what our car's engines can
> handle. This information is not available except as noted below, so
> how can someone make a purchasing decision based on it? All a person
> usually is given is the rated flow at 15 psi, which is only
> moderately useful. All these points are discussed in detail on my
> turbo upgrade web page.
>
> Now if someone actually has compressor efficiency maps for all or any
> of the turbos available for our cars, please share them with us.
> Mikael Kenson has showed us 15G and 18T flow maps, maybe some of the
> other players will show us the maps for GT357 and such turbos. Until
> then, compressor efficiency ranges, and PR vs CFM, are unknowns.
>
> Here are the flow maps for 15G, 18T, and maybe 368 with the engine
> approximate "demand" lines I drew on them.
>
> http://www.3si.org/upload/15g&18t&368.jpg
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
> To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 1:16 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Follow up to 15Gs
>
>
> Hopefully it is clear to all that flow at any given RPM is just one
> aspect in choosing a turbo and not necessarily even the most
> important factor. There are other characteristics such as peak flow
> capability (at a given turbine RPM), efficiency, rate of increase in
> boost, ability to maintain a given boost and the list goes on.
> Reliability is also an important issue for those that aren't into
> changing turbos twice a year.
>
> In other words, it does matter what turbo one chooses.
>
>
> Barry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > I have a comprehensive turbo upgrade guide at my web site at:
> >
> > http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm
> >
> > Please remember that mass air flow is determined by the engine RPM,
> > engine volumetric efficiency, and air density. At 5000 RPM and 15
> psi
> > plenum pressure and a certain air temp, a particular engine "flows"
> X
> > anount of air. It makes no difference at all which turbo is used.
> > That being said, I have heard good things about the GT357 turbos.
> It
> > is on my short list of replacements for my 15Gs. I'm not sure you
> > need any more turbo than 15Gs for road racing though.
> >
> > If you decide to try replacing these yourself, I have Errin's
> > instructions at my web site at:
> >
> > http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-tsg_v10.htm
> >
> > Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:06:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Follow up to 15Gs

barry..now tell me in 5 words or less what a Vr4 on 3.1L at 9:1
compression on 15g's...and at only 3000lbs would be like?

i agree with your statements..and was about to post but you put it much
better than me.  The 368 would be a really annoying turbo on a challenging
road course where youre spending a good amount of time shifting.

the 18 wheel just seems to have a broader sweet spot, but offering little
or no increased efficiency at high RPM.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Barry E. King wrote:

> Based on your previously stated wishes and purpose (and your 560cc
> injectors), you'll likely be good with 15Gs, perhaps ported to allow for the
> turbines staying in the sweet spot more readily.  The down side is slightly
> incresaed lag.   You can get there by clipping (not my choice) or proper
> porting (my choice).  The benefit of doing this is that when you shift the
> turbine will tend to stay spinning longer and be "there" when you re-engage.
> Lag really is not an issue on a road course if you're driving right, which
> you are.  Based on your previous war stories, with a properly tuned 15G
> setup you *will* be at the front.  Bring on whatever they have.
>
> How well 15Gs compare to GT Pro's offerings, I cannot comment.  I do know
> that there were extreme growing pains with some of the earlier models.
> Whether this has been ironed out or not, I cannot comment since I have no
> (nor have I sought) information on these blowers.  My concern would be
> longevity as well as performance.  The 15Gs are a known quantity when
> sourced from someone who knows what they are doing.
>
> I've been trying to find the contact information for the guy in Florida that
> made my 15Gs.  They were hundreds cheaper than any other 15G (I paid $1300
> for a pair, matched and balanced, ported, relieved etc) and they are
> extremely well done.  Two weeks after having 15Gs  I was wishing for more
> though...never ending story.
>
>
> Barry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > At 01:16 PM 12/16/00 -0700, Barry E. King wrote:
> > >Hopefully it is clear to all that flow at any given RPM is just
> > one aspect
> > >in choosing a turbo and not necessarily even the most important factor.
> > >There are other characteristics such as peak flow capability (at a given
> > >turbine RPM), efficiency, rate of increase in boost, ability to
> > maintain a
> > >given boost and the list goes on.  Reliability is also an important issue
> > >for those that aren't into changing turbos twice a year.
> >
> > What would you look for in a car that runs on road courses?
> > It will NEVER be drag raced or subjected to extremely high rpm (I shift at
> > 7000 only when chasing or being chased, 6000 the rest of the time).
> > I need better top end power (to pull strong from 120 to 150 mph), good
> > mid-range torque (3500 rpm up), and reliability. I have the Alamo
> > intercoolers to minimize heat soaking.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:31:57 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Eibach Pro Kit Springs

WARNING: If you have a 1995+ VR-4 with an automatic sunroof (not sure about
Stealths) then there is absolutely no aftermarket spring that will fit your
car.  You will have to custom-order a set to have them fit.

We have had a small band of individuals trying to solve this problem and
install some prototypes from H&R to see if these work.  There is a small
perch that interferes with the spring when the car has an automatic sunroof.

We will send an update to the list when all questions have been answered.

As for answering the question - it is a matter of personal preference.  If
you want stock ride height and lowering capabilities then a coilover system
is suggested.  If you just wanna drop it then springs are the best bang for
the buck.  I think rough estimates for stock spring rates are about 350
front/250 rear on a VR-4 (at least the 1995).  Good luck.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg

- -----Original Message-----
From: cody [mailto:overclck@flash.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 9:30 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Pro Kit Springs



I highly doubt there would be much of a discount, if any over any other
discounts we already get.

The alternatives to the Eibach springs is of course the Intrax springs
(tried and true on the 3000GT by myself and others)
Personally, I would go as low as possible... our cars sit forever off the
ground, with horrid fender gap...  It is your choice though...

To answer the other question brought up - the drop in replacements come only
in certain sprng rates - if you want custom spring rates, you will have to
go with the Ground Control setup for about $400...  It is also adjustable in
height though...

- -Cody

PS - Bob mentioned that some people may have difficulties in certain
driveways, etc. etc. with ANY lowering kit and thus the Intrax being worse
than the Eibach's...  I admit - I have to e careful, but to me it is well
worth it...  Its just a matter of being a little more careful on speed bumps
and driveways.


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Shivy13@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:47 PM
To: Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Pro Kit Springs



                I'm interested in buying some new springs to....Is it
possible if we had enough people to get a group order would we get any sort
of discount.

        One more question....Would you all recommend the 1.2/1.2 inch drop
or the 1.5/1.3 drop.  Any suggestions welcome.  Thank!!

Michael


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:05:48 EST
From: AABOMB1@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: soft clutch

Hi list members:
last night, I drove my car to a friend's house and the clutch felt perfectly
normal. After letting the rest in the right-at-freezing temperature for about
8 hours I got back in to go home. The clutch felt much softer going in and
seemed to have a harder time coming back up. I got into the car this morning
and it's still doing the same thing.

I really don't know why this happened so suddenly, but it seems like I need
to bleed the fluid. Could anyone tell me if this sounds like it could be the
problem? If so, where is the bleeder valve?

Thank you

('94 3000GT -- NA DOHC)


AA

- -------------------
E-mail: aabomb@thepentagon.com <or> aabomb1@aol.com
Fax: (707) 982-8817 [In The United States]

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:10:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: soft clutch

AIr in the line sounds like it.  Could be that a seal is getting old/hard
in the master or slave as well.


On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 AABOMB1@aol.com wrote:

> Hi list members:
> last night, I drove my car to a friend's house and the clutch felt perfectly
> normal. After letting the rest in the right-at-freezing temperature for about
> 8 hours I got back in to go home. The clutch felt much softer going in and
> seemed to have a harder time coming back up. I got into the car this morning
> and it's still doing the same thing.
>
> I really don't know why this happened so suddenly, but it seems like I need
> to bleed the fluid. Could anyone tell me if this sounds like it could be the
> problem? If so, where is the bleeder valve?
>
> Thank you
>
> ('94 3000GT -- NA DOHC)
>
>
> AA
>
> -------------------
> E-mail: aabomb@thepentagon.com <or> aabomb1@aol.com
> Fax: (707) 982-8817 [In The United States]
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:18:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: soft clutch

Could be fluid related - a problem with the hose or either cylinder.
If you just need to bleed the clutch lines I have step-by-step
instructions with pictures at my web site. Component locations are
shown. The layout is similar for both of our FWD and AWD manual
transmission cars.

http://www.3si.org/member-home/blucius/b-2-clutchbleeding.htm

There are also instructions on my Garage Page for replacing the
clutch hose. The release cylinder is easy to replace if that is the
problem. The master cylinder is more problematic from what I have
heard. If there is a problem with the clutch assembly itself, the
instructions I have for removing the AWD trany apply for the most
part to the FWD trany.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <AABOMB1@aol.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:05 AM
Subject: Team3S: soft clutch

Hi list members:
last night, I drove my car to a friend's house and the clutch felt
perfectly normal. After letting the rest in the right-at-freezing
temperature for about 8 hours I got back in to go home. The clutch
felt much softer going in and seemed to have a harder time coming
back up. I got into the car this morning and it's still doing the
same thing.

I really don't know why this happened so suddenly, but it seems like
I need to bleed the fluid. Could anyone tell me if this sounds like
it could be the problem? If so, where is the bleeder valve?

Thank you

('94 3000GT -- NA DOHC)


AA

- -------------------
E-mail: aabomb@thepentagon.com <or> aabomb1@aol.com
Fax: (707) 982-8817 [In The United States]


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:31:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Project update

Went to see the car today.

Its got so mush "stuff" out of it now, the car no longer has a
suspension..its locked all the way up on all four struts, and theres about
another 250lbs yet to remove.

New items for sale are the foglights, rear wing assembly WITH motor,
FIPK, AFM, AC compressor, radiator & fans.

Bob: YTou'll be able to pick up yor wheels soon..just gotta get the race
ones over to the shop now.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #355
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